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[Yea it's a bullshit opinion coming from managers, players aren't stupid and pretty much know they are no consequences coming from defeat or victory.]

I think the value of it is a matter of opinion and I certainly think that management will like the extra two weeks with the players and the additional game. However, that's not really important in the context of the discussion. Are the super 8's better, even if there are some dead rubbers, than the old QF knockout? For me they are and I suspect all managers and players would agree.

Yea it's a bullshit opinion coming from managers, players aren't stupid and pretty much know they are no consequences coming from defeat or victory. The logical thing would have been to not train let the the players back to their clubs and meet up again the morning of the match and give fringe players some game time. My opinion is that the players think it's complete and utter bullshit having to play the game.

As for your question I think the Super 8s are a joke, Cork had to beat Limerick & Laois to get there. Meath beat Offaly, Laois & Clare to get there. It's nothing to do with meritocracy, a lucky draw is all you need. What other competition on the planet has knock-out then league then knockout to decide it's winners. It's not about fairness, it's not about meritocracy it's about money and money only.

I'd disagree with that. At county level the extra time with the players and the extra game is valuable. Besides, there's only one game this weekend that won't impact the SF situation so while we could around in circles on the Cork/Roscommon game none of the rest are pointless.

People saying it's only about money won't make it anymore true. It isn't and was never only about money though I'm sure the GAA appreciate it and so should any member of the GAA.

The season is like this because people wanted more games but retain the provincials. As for luck of the draw sure that's still there in the QF set up. The discussion isn't whether the super 8's are the best system the discussion is whether they are better than the only alternative we've been offered and, IMO, they are miles better.

I think the value of it is a matter of opinion and I certainly think that management will like the extra two weeks with the players and the additional game. However, that's not really important in the context of the discussion. Are the super 8's better, even if there are some dead rubbers, than the old QF knockout? For me they are and I suspect all managers and players would agree.

What's more, of those games, Cork/Tyrone and Mayo/Meath were more or less do or die, lose and you couldn't make the All Ireland SF's. That's far better than what we had.

I think most would agree that Meath,Cork having dead rubbers to play after losing their do or die matches is not better than what we had.

Ronan McCarthy has already come out stating their game isn't a deadrubber as far as he's concerned. I'm certain the Meath management feel the same about Kerry coming to Navan in a game Kerry will want to win.

If you compare the old knockout QF format to the super 8's then the super 8's would be the preferred option of most I'd say.

Managers and players want more games and less training so it's the super 8's

Administrators want more revenue and a higher profile for the game so it's the super 8's

County boards like the home game element as do local businesses and getting rid of the Croke Park game will spread that business wider.

Fans get more games, more oppportunities to get kids to games which is what helps fuel the passion in the next generation.

Clubs won't get anymore games played if you went back to the QF's so I see little or no advantage to the old system over the current one. It's not perfect but it's still better IMO.

Fair enough though I only gave my opinion. If there are Donegal folk out there who'd prefer to meet Dublin then fair enough.

Possibly. But that's a county board issue. The demand was to shorten the IC season and that has been done. What counties do with their club championships is up to them.

Unlike the Hurley stuff which has 9 reasonably well matched teams football has one Superteam and maybe 3 others who are excellent teams.
5 or 6 who'd come after that.
Hurling had the Round Robin (restricted) first and the K O after.
Football has knockout Provincials, knockout Qualifiers, then Round Robin and then more knockout.
One plus though was big games in Provincial venues.

Dublin are making any system in football seem defunct but the super 8's are better than the alternative knockout QF's. Why any fan of football wouldn't like to see more football games between the best teams is beyond me.

[they all want to top it to avoid playing Dublin.]

...
Why is it boring anyway? In one group three teams out of four can still qualify and they all want to top it to avoid playing Dublin.

You really think that Donegal want to meet us again at this juncture of this year's Championship? And it only applies to Group 1 (we can't meet them in the Semi regardless).

If given the choice of the Dubs or Tyrone I'd say they'd pick Tyrone every day of the week.

Would you mind putting together your plan for the season? The reason the IC season is like this is because people said they want more IC games between the top teams but more time for club games. Have any IC players come out and complained about regular games? I haven't heard any but maybe there are?

Better than the old QF's anyway.

It's not. It is boring and unnecessary. Get on with the competition and cease the cumbersome foreplay please.

Are the Munster and Leinster hurling championships boring? Are the premiership, champions league or World Cup boring? Olympic heats? Casual observers of pretty much any sport could tell you the likely winners of most competitions but they still all avoid strict knock out competitions.


Why is it boring anyway? In one group three teams out of four can still qualify and they all want to top it to avoid playing Dublin.

Someone posted up how many of the QF's were actually close over the last 4 or 5 years and none of them had anymore than 2 of the 4 competitive in any year. The super 8's provided us with one of the games of the decade, a massive occasion in Killarney and another one this weekend in Castlebar as well as good games between Cork/Dublin, Mayo/Meath, Cork/Tyrone and Meath/Donegal. What's more, of those games, Cork/Tyrone and Mayo/Meath were more or less do or die, lose and you couldn't make the All Ireland SF's. That's far better than what we had.

Better than the old QF's anyway.

He wasn't referring to me as i had only one post on this thread at the time. From what i hear a sign of glue sniffing is a damaged memory.

The Champions league final this year was between Liverpool and Tottenham who last won their domestic league titles in 1990 and 1961. Arguably the highlight of that competition was Ajax run against the odds to the semi final and missing out on the final by inches, it captured the public's interest as all underdog stories do.

In the main competition in our amateur game there is a big focus on elitism and the rest are just left to feed on scraps as the day of the underdog (one of the best things about any team competition) is killed off.

You're surely not suggesting Liverpool and Spurs aren't elite teams? I've no interest in soccer but I doubt anyone wouldn't have both clubs in the top 30 in Europe (at least). So out of the 1000+ professional soccer teams in Europe they're both in the top 3% (probably in the top 2%). Ajax would be there or there about too I'd imagine.


Underdog stories are brilliant but Clare getting to an all Ireland semi final because they beat Waterford, Carlow and Westmeath isn't really an underdog story. It's a decent teams progressing aby beating teams they would probably beat most days. It would be brilliant if Clare made a SF by beating Waterford, Meath and Tyrone for example but that could happen in a seeded format too.

There's no answer to suit everyone. Round robins with anything more than the top 6 teams will produce crap games. Seeding will guarantee crap games until the semi-finals. Splitting the competion in 2 levels will still have your 5/6 top teams hammering the other 10/11 teams every time they meet. It will also kill football in the 2nd tier counties.

Hurling is all but dead in 20+ counties and they will never ever bridge the gap or get a team that's competative against the top 8 sides. Never.

Football is in a much more healthy state. Take the Dubs out and the next 4 teams could all be beaten by a team a few levels below them on their day.

We need to protect that, and shoving the bottom 16/24 counties into a tier 2 will turn football into the new hurling. Brilliant games at the top level but death by a thousand cuts at the rest.

I agree. There isn't any format that will serve everyone optimally. But for me, counties have their club championships, Sigerson championships and inter county competitions from U14 upwards to develop players for their county senior team. The GAA can, and should be, trying to help counties develop with funding support but I don't see senior IC football as being anything other than elite teams competing. If you aren't good enough to make it through to a SF or QF then so be it. As long as the competition provides lots of games that matter and every team has the same path to the final then it's a fair decent competition format IMO.

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Through gritted teeth he had to congratulate Div 3 Tipperary for reaching the semi final three years ago. He was over the moon with the introduction of the round robin group stage for the last eight as it more or less ended the chance of a underdog like Tipperary reaching the last 4 again.

I presume hardstation was referring to you when he said some people were on glue. I had to congratulate Tipp through gritted teeth 3 years ago, what the hell are you talking about??? I couldn't quote anyone's posts from 3 years ago so that you seemly can remember one of mine is fairly worrying. But feel free to post it here again so I we can all see how you deemed a post as being through gritted teeth.

Your second point is simply a lie. I wasn't over the moon and certainly wasn't in favour of it as it would make it harder for a county like Tipp to make the SF's. I was in favour of giving the super 8's their 3 year run as I didn't think the championship format was working and the only other option was the super 8's so I was willing to give them a go.

They aren't the final solution and there are changes needed but I think they are better than the old format.

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Maybe not all  the way to the final but certainly QF and SF are possible and if they did it by beating only division 3 and 4 teams, how is that deserving?

Kerry got there this year (and every year) by beating Clare and Cork (or similar teams).
Dublin got there this year by beating Louth, Kildare and Meath.

What's less fair about someone else getting to a 1/4 final by beating weak sides?

That's 100% true and that's one of the main reasons I don't think the provincials should be linked to progressing in the championship.