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I was talking traditionally with regards to beating Kerry and co.. we've let our standards slip certainty for last 15 + years, they've improved theirs, interesting to note that theses counties wouldn't have a team that would be pushing for all Ireland club titles. Baring MLR of Carlow of course

Fair point MR.  If you are without 7/8 players, who are training for an AI club semi-final, from November onwards, then the county will suffer in the national league.  Very hard to get them back on track with the county then I think, due to a combination of reasons.

Conversely, Kerry, with no team progressing in Munster, can take a break, then focus from November onwards on the county scene.  Continuity  is hard to beat with the same panel training together from before Christmas.

Say over the last 20 years what was done incorrectly  in terms of ulster hurling?  Why didn't things move on from 20 years ago ?

I think the system has exposed the flaws.  When Antrim/Down went straight to an AI semi-final, they put up a decent show while Antrim got to final in '89.  All looked well in the garden. 

Couple this with the club scene- the great Dunloy team of the 90's getting to club finals while beating good teams from Munster and Leinster.  Everybody thought hurling in Ulster was ok.

Take away the direct route to AI inter-county semi-final and Ulster is badly exposed.  Slipping further down the liat.

I hear people saying, or have an opinion that Antrim should be beating Meath and Kerry etc. Why should they be thinking that?  Tradition?  It's a bit like people saying Derry shouln't be in Div. 4 in the football - they say they're too good to be there!  What's that about?  They're there because they deserve to be there. Meath have done great work at underage, so  have Kerry. 

Positively, good work is going on in Ulster, new regional clubs are being formed in various counties.  We can't be too negative!!  People may laugh at this (hurling snobbery if you will) but Cavan seniors are back hurling at inter county level.  They won last week - that's a positive.

Beat New Zealand and Irish press put us out at no. 1 forgetting that's at the end of their long season. We been poor the day

Jesus!!

The same way we didn't win the WC beating NZ we haven't lost it today. As I've said no injuries is the main aim of the 6N.

In fairness the English have been better... there's not much between the top teams and England are up there. It's not the end of the world!

Will do no harm.  Save the pain for later in year. 6N should be used to give lads game time and work on things.

WC is main thing this year.  Keep fresh for it and have a full squad. Remember Ireland's teams will have knock out games in Europen Cup etc.

Great chance for this highly talented squad in WC - it should be the priority in 2019.

Good win last night and results went our way need to win game in hand for a wee cushion before valencia match,somthing doesnt add up with rodgers comments about croatian winger being signed he doesnt seem to want or know about this deal.Whos signing these players Lawwell?

New Rangers awarded 4 penalties today. That's what Celtic will be up against for the rest of the season.

A certain Mr. Dallas as referee!

The question is what does amateur mean in a gaa context?

Why would that be relevant here? If it suits for both teams then it's gonna work well. The players love friday evening games as it means they can have night out on the saturday. They're all young lads so a saturday night out or 2 over the season is great.

I'm only stating that people use the 'amateur' status of the GAA in times like this to say they'd have to take the Friday off etc but I'm with you. If both counties are happy on a Friday night and it suits everyone- then go for it.

The question is what does amateur mean in a gaa context?

yes and maybe they  can find jobs that dont work on fridays lol

I think it'd work if it involved 2 local counties. They play Mc Kenna Cup games at 8pm mid-week.  Lads must get off work and they're not home to midnight!

Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..

Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..

The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..

To compete at Joe Mc D level is some achievement with only 4 senior clubs.  They are consistent.  Compare to Antrim and Derry etc. with 2/3 times the number of clubs.

Granted, they are hurling clubs only and that's where the 'issue' is!   Derry clubs are dual clubs for the most part and football will be No. 1.  L'giel, C'dall and Ballycastle are hurling clubs with Dunloy primarily hurling with a great football underage set over recent years.

No problem with football being No.1 but I do have a problem when the fixtures are so badly planned that kids are forced to chose one over the other. That does not need to happen and happens far too often.
I've had games cancelled with dual clubs due to a football fixture being moved by a regional board to suit a development squad or other. That shouldn't happen and Croke Park need to insist that the Football No.1 County Boards set aside slots for dual clubs to take part in hurling unimpeded by football.
There's your starting point.

Then improve fixtures for clubs. The Tain league is a farce, don't need to say more.

Antrim CB are picking up the slack of other negligent county boards and asleep at the wheel Ulster Council, with teams from Down, Derry, Tyrone and Armagh looking to get into their leagues at underage and adult?

Martin Fogarty and some of his predecessors really need to start shaking the tree in Ulster as this bullshit visit once every blue moon is token gesture-ism of the highest order.

Someone needs to look at the structures of hurling in Ulster rather than run some fancy dan coaching courses once in a while.

I hear what you are saying JC and totally agree but the football counties will always put football at the top.  That's life.

The issue with Táin league is it's for the hurling clubs in 'weaker 'counties - i always see loads of game conceded during the summer.  Not sure why - football clashes?  Be good to see how many games are actually played in it.

Re: Antrim league, esp. Div. 1 it's a good league.  The reason the Táin league wouldn't work at a higher level is Antrim teams and 3 Ards teams wouldn't buy into it.  Why would they when their league is as good as it is already.

Therefore other counties see no value in a Táin league if Antrim and PF, BC and BG are not in it.

Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.

How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!

The set up suits Ulster teams.

Loughgiel twice but  other clubs have reached the all Ireland final a total of 7 times   

Dunloy 4 times,

Ruairi Og, McQuillan, O Donovan Rossa once each ,

What I was saying is the current system suits Ulster clubs re: AI club semi-finals. On a good day, they'll beat the Munster champions in Parnell Pk etc. 

Conversely how many times have Antrim/Down reached the All Ireland final since they changed the system i.e. provinical winners go straight into semi-final?

I'm actually surprised the Leinster and Munster haven't kicked up a fuss about this system to change it to a system similar to the minor system.

Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..

Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..

The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..

To compete at Joe Mc D level is some achievement with only 4 senior clubs.  They are consistent.  Compare to Antrim and Derry etc. with 2/3 times the number of clubs.

Granted, they are hurling clubs only and that's where the 'issue' is!   Derry clubs are dual clubs for the most part and football will be No. 1.  L'giel, C'dall and Ballycastle are hurling clubs with Dunloy primarily hurling with a great football underage set over recent years.

A Bullshit League as had been proved time and time again over the last 15 years!! Perhaps the Yo Yo teams should stop standing at the top table with their hand out, and help themselves. The only team I honestly see making an improvement in overall standards and likely to stay in Div 1 for years to come are StJohns. That took 10 years of work!!

Think you'll find it's taken more than ten years for the Johnnies to be competitive, how they get over the line still needs to be worked out..

so I'll ask again.. would the top teams prefer to play the top four teams each week? To stop the 'unmeaningfull' games.. or should the top two Derry teams play with Ballycran, Johnnies, Loughgiel Dunloy and Cushendall?

That's a serious question, whatever works to increase the standard, but you'll have just semi final and final each year in championship I'd assume.

Maybe heading in the direction of an Ulster league? Down teams in Antrim league. Dungannon (Tyrone) and Na Magha (Derry) in Antrim league. Carrickmore (Tyrone) in Derry league occasionally. Derry teams in Antrim U16 and minor leagues. Tyrone teams in Derry underage leagues.

Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.

How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!

The set up suits Ulster teams.

I've been to at least 15/20 club semifinals over the years, bar a couple they could have went either way, they were that tight.. the county needs to look at getting more teams regularly up to a decent standard, having a championship that is not just between 3 teams each year... how do they do that?

Clubs are responsible but the county are at the minute putting in a drive to encourage schools at all levels,  lifting the involvement not just with the kids but with teaching staff and feeder clubs.. Antrim has taken its eye off the ball now for 25 plus years.. it's going to take a huge effort to get back there.

But for Antrim to be improving then so must the rest in the province. Getting into Leinster again at juvenile levels is a must, they are our closet province and they have improved their not traditional counties like, Dublin, Carlow, Meath Westmeath to a level way above us, but 25 years ago we'd have beaten such teams with a bit to spare..

Look it's a head scratcher for sure and PD will hopefully have sorted out at least a start to fix this!

Good points raised there.  Funny thing is Carlow have 4 senior clubs and they are pushing on well under Bonnar.  I'm not sure what they have coming through at underage but to get to where they are at with 4 clubs is some achievement.

Geography helps them immensely - KK and Wexford right beside them but it'd be interesting to see how they do it.

Celtic Challenge is an excellent competition - U17 but with U16 development for the stronger counties.  Great idea - loads of games in a short time frame.

Be good to roll it out at U15 level and U20 level.

Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.

How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!

The set up suits Ulster teams.

Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..

if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..

I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.

To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?

Kerry are in a good place - won All IrelandU21 B last year also. The advantage they have is geography, with Clare, Limerick and Cork not that far away.  This obviously helps the county but especially the clubs.

Regional clubs are the way to go in Ulster - Benburb and Tulach Og in Cookstown area of Tyrone, St. Patrick's (iirc) in Moneymore area of Derry. A cluster of areas joining together and driving hurling on.  Football will always come first in the majority of Ulster but no reason that the 2 sports can't work together.  The more teams there are, the better the county will be.

Main issue would be regular fixtures for  the underage teams.