Messages

So that's a no? I didn't say I'm happy for them to die.. Phew, is that a normal tactic for you?

Throwing rocks at tanks won't stop children dying, mothers raped or fathers being locked up for 30 years. It won't stop the tensions in the West Bank and further afield. Escalation will have an affect on all of us

Now you can support resistance all you want from over 5,500KMs away but unless its resolved through talk then it will continue. If you have any sense you'll know that it's the only way to stop this.

Its barbaric from the Israeli troops and government plus the US among others that have supported this. If it is paused without meaningful negation then this will continue and the geocide will be complete, that will help no one.

your opinion that they shouldn't use all efforts including armed resistence to end the occupation means (without you saying it) that you are happy/accepting of the status quo ( as every other effort (not armed resistence) has not ended the occupation) and the occupation is murdering daily Palestinians.

every bit of my sense says you want to limit what Palestinians do to get self determination. I dont. My preference is peaceful but its 75 years and throughout history armed resistence has led to the end of occupations (I acknowledge it also involves sitting down at a table after)

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

and whitey ignores my questions again and then this rubbish.  the root cause is the occupation and Israel is responsible along with the world powers who support them continuing this occupation

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I think in terms of using sticks and stones in comparison to what Israel has to use against Palestine then you can uprise to the cows come home there will be only one outcome.

Nothing will be resolved unless they sit around a table, create the conditions for that and that's the best outcome 75 years will be 150 years and so on if they do not sit and discuss

I know you are they type of guy that sits at home on a computer type of guy and wave a flag maybe not use Israeli products but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated 

I am that guy and more and understand how little impact it has but at least I fully support all legal efforts for palestinains while you sit at home on your computer happy for them to die slowing, and stupidly not know that palestinans have numerous times sat at those tables and been offered nothing and somehow speak to me as if you have some moral superiority...

If you can throw up in any of my posts where I said I'm happy for them to die, please?

And did I say they haven't sat at the table and tried to fix this? no again, more mistruths .. You'd be good at being an IDF spokesperson

you don't support their legal right to resistence. you are not happy for them to exhaust all means for freedom. they are dying daily under occupation and
nothing has changed in 75 years. as someone who doesn't support all efforts and wants palestinans to wait for israel to agree to a just and peaceful palestinan state you are happy to see them continuing to die under that occupation and not use all means of resistence.

you didn't say they didnt sit at the table previosuly but you seem to think it's a possibility without something changing internationally and armed resistence is a option available to Palestinians under international law and again you don't support that right.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I think in terms of using sticks and stones in comparison to what Israel has to use against Palestine then you can uprise to the cows come home there will be only one outcome.

Nothing will be resolved unless they sit around a table, create the conditions for that and that's the best outcome 75 years will be 150 years and so on if they do not sit and discuss

I know you are they type of guy that sits at home on a computer type of guy and wave a flag maybe not use Israeli products but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated 

I am that guy and more and understand how little impact it has but at least I fully support all legal efforts for palestinains while you sit at home on your computer happy for them to die slowing, and stupidly not know that palestinans have numerous times sat at those tables and been offered nothing and somehow speak to me as if you have some moral superiority...

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

the Warsaw ghetto uprising was considered the greatest act of resistence against the Nazis.

I am not comparing wars/conflicts as to do so creates ambiguity and there are no perfect direct comparisons.

but acts of resistence (generally speaking) against occupation have and are been considered heroic and great etc.  Only bad faith zionists or those who who rather only support Palestinians while they remain caged and occupied would take that as some sort of blind support for inidividiual acts within that resistence that led to the murdering of non combatants (which includes children women, men, elderly etc.)

You described Hamas actions, that is, gunning down unarmed men, women and children on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. All the waffle above doesn't change that.

Now you're attempting to pigeonhole me as either a bad faith Zionist or someone who only supports Palestinians if they remain caged for calling you out on it. I'm neither.

Lots of bad faith in this debate and none of it coming from me that's for sure.

There were posters here also posting on Oct 7th who were clearly pro-Palestine and were questioning Hamas' actions. You chose the words 'heroic actions.'

yes bad faith, as I have explained to you what I meant (the person who wrote the comments) and if you read on you will see I clarified it at that time for others also.

I described the act of resistence by Palestinians as heroic, so if I want to think I support murdering children go right ahead it is in perfect keeping with your bad faith.

The actions of Hamas on that day. That is, a massacre of unarmed civilian men, women and children. You chose the word 'heroic' to describe it. You can't change that.

Yeah I took up your invitation to read on, you were called out by plenty of posters. What followed was basically an attempt to justify murder.

In my opinion, you're not that much different from the British  zionists I hear on radio shows trying to justify genocide. If it's your team doing the murdering, there's always an excuse.

Plenty of pro-Palestinians on this board were disgusted by Hamas actions and said so straight away.

this ends my engagement with you the reincarnation of previously banned poster... and all you efforts to view everything via the len of Oct 7th like a good little zionist and misrepresented my comments. despite being told numerous times.

I fully stand over them and what I meant by them and reject your incorrect interpretation. all my posts are visible and I have never called for the murder of non combatant be the man women or child.

Surely if I felt that way (that I was ok mirdering innocnet children) or meant that I would just come out and say it.

International law allows for resistence to occupation. Palestine is occupied. Palestinians heroic resist and resisted their occupation. As the west for 75 years let them rot under the boot of isrsel. that is a heroic action. to be clear I don't support any war crimes or individual actions that led to the deaths of non combatants again to be clear, be they men women or children. 

The whole thing doesn't make any sense

Netanyahu was about to get booted out of office and a less hardline Israeli PM was the likely successor

World opinion in general was very sympathetic toward the Palestinians

Relations were being normalized between Israeli and other Muslim countries

Now all of that "progress" has gone up in flames

I asked this yesterday and I'll ask it again- What exactly we're Hamas hoping to accomplish by their actions on 10/07?

Not alone has their country been destroyed and tens of thousands of their civilians killed, but they may very well get Trump elected ....you know Trump, the guy who tried to ban Muslims from entering the US

so you didn't answer my question.

What question

are Israel animals and should they be wiped from the face of the planet whitey?

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

the Warsaw ghetto uprising was considered the greatest act of resistence against the Nazis.

I am not comparing wars/conflicts as to do so creates ambiguity and there are no perfect direct comparisons.

but acts of resistence (generally speaking) against occupation have and are been considered heroic and great etc.  Only bad faith zionists or those who who rather only support Palestinians while they remain caged and occupied would take that as some sort of blind support for inidividiual acts within that resistence that led to the murdering of non combatants (which includes children women, men, elderly etc.)

You described Hamas actions, that is, gunning down unarmed men, women and children on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. All the waffle above doesn't change that.

Now you're attempting to pigeonhole me as either a bad faith Zionist or someone who only supports Palestinians if they remain caged for calling you out on it. I'm neither.

Lots of bad faith in this debate and none of it coming from me that's for sure.

There were posters here also posting on Oct 7th who were clearly pro-Palestine and were questioning Hamas' actions. You chose the words 'heroic actions.'

yes bad faith, as I have explained to you what I meant (the person who wrote the comments) and if you read on you will see I clarified it at that time for others also.

I described the act of resistence by Palestinians as heroic, so if I want to think I support murdering children go right ahead it is in perfect keeping with your bad faith.

The whole thing doesn't make any sense

Netanyahu was about to get booted out of office and a less hardline Israeli PM was the likely successor

World opinion in general was very sympathetic toward the Palestinians

Relations were being normalized between Israeli and other Muslim countries

Now all of that "progress" has gone up in flames

I asked this yesterday and I'll ask it again- What exactly we're Hamas hoping to accomplish by their actions on 10/07?

Not alone has their country been destroyed and tens of thousands of their civilians killed, but they may very well get Trump elected ....you know Trump, the guy who tried to ban Muslims from entering the US

so you didn't answer my question.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

the Warsaw ghetto uprising was considered the greatest act of resistence against the Nazis.

I am not comparing wars/conflicts as to do so creates ambiguity and there are no perfect direct comparisons.

but acts of resistence (generally speaking) against occupation have and are been considered heroic and great etc.  Only bad faith zionists or those who who rather only support Palestinians while they remain caged and occupied would take that as some sort of blind support for inidividiual acts within that resistence that led to the murdering of non combatants (which includes children women, men, elderly etc.)

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.