Charlie Redmond not leaving the field when sent off by Paddy Russell in 1995 AIF makes no 16. Redmond is laffin his bollix off on the show knowing fine well that the game should have been awarded to Tyrone due to his refusal to leave the pitch. Not that I'd have wanted to win our first all-ireland that way! Well not now anyway! >:( ;) :D :P
Don t think it was an incident that warranted a position on the top 20 of all time!!!
This is a repeat surely. I remember watching this around Christmas/New Year time.
Was good viewing, while also kinda wrong with a few of the choices!!
Aye has been on before, was disgraceful how they glossed over Michelle Smiths drug taking as if it never happened.
QuoteDon t think it was an incident that warranted a position on the top 20 of all time!!!
A GAA ref failing to implement one of the fundamental rules of the game in order to see the Jackeens lift a much needed Sam? :o :o
It would be akin to the ref in Tyson v Holyfield instructing the 2 to fight on after Tyson bites Holyfield's ear off! :o :o
Saipan - No 1?????
Quote from: under the bar on August 19, 2008, 10:34:48 PM
QuoteDon t think it was an incident that warranted a position on the top 20 of all time!!!
A GAA ref failing to implement one of the fundamental rules of the game in order to see the Jackeens lift a much needed Sam? :o :o
It would be akin to the ref in Tyson v Holyfield instructing the 2 to fight on after Tyson bites Holyfield's ear off! :o :o
Not really !!!
Redmond had some neck.
Proud to be a f**king Animal.
Poor Jimmy Cooney. Anyone know whatever became of him?
QuoteRedmond had some neck.
Like a Charolais bullock! :D
QuoteA GAA ref failing to implement one of the fundamental rules of the game in order to see the Jackeens lift a much needed Sam? Shocked Shocked
It would be akin to the ref in Tyson v Holyfield instructing the 2 to fight on after Tyson bites Holyfield's ear off! Shocked Shocked
Not really !!!
Why do you say that? Both mean that the contest is forfeited.
Bloody Sunday was never mentioned.
Saipan was tiddlywinks in comparison.
QuoteBloody Sunday was never mentioned.
Where 13-man Tyrone beat Derry's All-Ireland winners?
If Brian O'Driscoll had any balls on him he would have dumped Martin Johnson on his hole the day of the anthems in Landsdowne Road, Would have loved to see the reaction if Mick Galway or Paul O'Connell was captain that day.
At least we stuffed them in Croke Park afterwards ;)
Cheeky skitter
(http://www.rte.ie/tv/20moments/images/moment_charlie_redmond.jpg)
I only seen the top 10. Was Cormac McAnallen not in it?
After seeing it again 3 things were confirmed for me....
3- Michelle Smith is Irelands greatest ever sportsperson to date..I agree with wee Jimmy McGee :)
2- Opening up of Croke Park was,is and will always be the right decision.
1- Roy Keane was,is and will always be wrong
Mostly a load of media nonsense hyped up (Paudie was stitched up ;D)
I thought it was a very poorly produced and conceived program that had a wooden feel about it.
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2008, 10:34:21 PM
Aye has been on before, was disgraceful how they glossed over Michelle Smiths drug taking as if it never happened.
Did you even watch the programme?
They spent ten minutes with arguments both for and against her,Nothing was glossed over far from it...
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 01:23:57 AM
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
If you can show me one document,newspaper article anything at all where it says she
tested positive for drugs in the Olympic Games in Atlanta 1996 i will then have a different opinion..
Fact is she never ever tested positive for any drug at those games and thus in my mind is innocent until proven guilty.
What happened later on in her career has nothing to do with the Olympics '96.
QuoteI only seen the top 10. Was Cormac McAnallen not in it?
Not a mention. Bit of a shambles of a show if truth be told.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 19, 2008, 11:53:20 PM
1- Roy Keane was,is and will always be wrong
Bollocks LL
Take those tinted glasses off
What was number one??
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2008, 10:34:21 PM
Aye has been on before, was disgraceful how they glossed over Michelle Smiths drug taking as if it never happened.
Did you even watch the programme?
They spent ten minutes with arguments both for and against her,Nothing was glossed over far from it...
Correct the had good arguements from both sides but poor aul jimmy magee reckons she is clean!!!
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 20, 2008, 09:40:42 AM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2008, 10:34:21 PM
Aye has been on before, was disgraceful how they glossed over Michelle Smiths drug taking as if it never happened.
Did you even watch the programme?
They spent ten minutes with arguments both for and against her,Nothing was glossed over far from it...
Correct the had good arguements from both sides but poor aul jimmy magee reckons she is clean!!!
Clean rotten !!!!!!!! ;) :D :D
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 01:23:57 AM
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
If you can show me one document,newspaper article anything at all where it says she tested positive for drugs in the Olympic Games in Atlanta 1996 i will then have a different opinion..
Fact is she never ever tested positive for any drug at those games and thus in my mind is innocent until proven guilty.
What happened later on in her career has nothing to do with the Olympics '96.
Garry O'Toole called it, he said Smith disappeared for 18months, slipped out of the top 50 so she wouldnt be tested, didnt compete in any events always having an excuse to miss the competitions, then she turns up in the final event before the olmpics and blasts the competion away, he said that she didnt improve that much from training and told her be careful. All you have to do is listen to the people involved in swimming they know she couldnt improve by that much. Her husband and trainer was involved in a drugs scandal himself when he was an athelte. Why would she tamper with her sample if she had nothing to hide??? they said they found traces of drugs in her sample as well. She was a cheat unlucky to get caught because id say there were all at it at some stage.
She put that much whiskey in the sample of piss that she would have been clinically dead !!
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 01:23:57 AM
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
If you can show me one document,newspaper article anything at all where it says she tested positive for drugs in the Olympic Games in Atlanta 1996 i will then have a different opinion..
Fact is she never ever tested positive for any drug at those games and thus in my mind is innocent until proven guilty.
What happened later on in her career has nothing to do with the Olympics '96.
If you think athletes only take performance enhancing drugs DURING competition you don't really understand much about training and human physiology. You can get such huge benefits from taking stuff during training that you don't need to take it in competition.
There'd be no point taking most performance enhancing drugs during competition. the only exception would be betablockers or similar for archers or golfers.
Performance enhancers fundamentally allow the athlete to train harder/longer to enable them to develop more power/strength/endurance. for that reason competition testing is largely redundant and out of competition testing is the only way to get them.
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 20, 2008, 09:48:11 AM
they said they found traces of drugs in her sample as well.
To the best of my recollection there has never been any suggestion of this.
Quote from: Uladh on August 20, 2008, 10:24:49 AM
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 20, 2008, 09:48:11 AM
they said they found traces of drugs in her sample as well.
To the best of my recollection there has never been any suggestion of this.
One of the journalists said last night they did find traces in her urine sample. He couldnt pronounce the name of it mind you...
News to me. she has never ben accused of failing a drugs test
The test had been tampered with, i.e the whiskey, but there were traces of a banned substance in it as well
Quote from: full back on August 20, 2008, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: Uladh on August 20, 2008, 10:24:49 AM
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 20, 2008, 09:48:11 AM
they said they found traces of drugs in her sample as well.
To the best of my recollection there has never been any suggestion of this.
One of the journalists said last night they did find traces in her urine sample. He couldnt pronounce the name of it mind you...
Paul Kimmage said there were traces of some drug in the sample, he couldnt pernounce the word
Kimmage can say what he likes but that's not the actual findings. she was charged and convicted of tampering with her sample only
Quote from: Uladh on August 20, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
Kimmage can say what he likes but that's not the actual findings. she was charged and convicted of tampering with her sample only
You sound a bit like Jimmy Mc Gee
Quote from: Uladh on August 20, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
Kimmage can say what he likes but that's not the actual findings. she was charged and convicted of tampering with her sample only
A bit like being stopped by the cops and you full as a sheugh and not providing a sample !
By the rules of the games she won her medals fair and square. IMO she should not have been allowed to compete because she had not been seen to be tested clean for an 18 months? period beforehand.
I think everybody knew that there was something up at the time and her medals have not been celebrated.
In fact her medals triumph had been almost totally ignored by the public at the time.
There was a persistent vendetta against her by drunken journalists and others but mostly I think people made up their own minds on the matter, that there was too much doubt to be sure.
We celebrated Kelly and Roche though ;D
As my father used to say ... If it looks like a drug-taking chicken and swims like a drug-taking chicken then it's most likely a drug-taking chicken.
Firstly a reapeat pprogramme as is most TV stuf at this time of year.
Secondly this was a programme that started at the end, wanted to use Saipan (again!!) to draw in the viewer and then create the rest of the programme to fluff it out
Thirdly Smith was and is guilty right through.
Finally, sadly, Kimmage is so twisted in his perspectives from his own experiences that one has to take carefully anything he says. If Jimmy Magee is ridiculous in his extreme and blind support for Smith, Kimmage is equally extreme in the other direction.
Quote from: full back on August 20, 2008, 08:37:21 AM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 19, 2008, 11:53:20 PM
1- Roy Keane was,is and will always be wrong
Bollocks LL
Take those tinted glasses off
Jaysis I'm wearing so many pairs of tinted glasses it's a wonder i can even see where I'm going..
I love the way people always use the "take of the tinted glasses" line when the don't agree with what you say ::)
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 20, 2008, 09:48:11 AM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 01:23:57 AM
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
If you can show me one document,newspaper article anything at all where it says she tested positive for drugs in the Olympic Games in Atlanta 1996 i will then have a different opinion..
Fact is she never ever tested positive for any drug at those games and thus in my mind is innocent until proven guilty.
What happened later on in her career has nothing to do with the Olympics '96.
Garry O'Toole called it, he said Smith disappeared for 18months, slipped out of the top 50 so she wouldnt be tested, didnt compete in any events always having an excuse to miss the competitions, then she turns up in the final event before the olmpics and blasts the competion away, he said that she didnt improve that much from training and told her be careful. All you have to do is listen to the people involved in swimming they know she couldnt improve by that much. Her husband and trainer was involved in a drugs scandal himself when he was an athelte. Why would she tamper with her sample if she had nothing to hide??? they said they found traces of drugs in her sample as well. She was a cheat unlucky to get caught because id say there were all at it at some stage.
Show me the prove that says she tested positive for drugs in Atlanta '96
Just because one man offers his opinion(O'Toole) doesn't make it true
You know I dont agree with what you say
It's just that if Keane had been a Liverpool player you wouldnt have been so vehement in your disdain for him
Quote from: full back on August 20, 2008, 12:45:55 PM
You know I dont agree with what you say
It's just that if Keane had been a Liverpool player you wouldnt have been so vehement in your disdain for him
Complete and utter bollix full back
I would always put Ireland ahead of Liverpool and it is his behaviour in Saipan that turned me against him.
Bernard Dunne the boxer summed him put perfectly in last nights show
But how do i defend myself when your mind is already made up about me and what I think
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: full back on August 20, 2008, 12:45:55 PM
You know I dont agree with what you say
It's just that if Keane had been a Liverpool player you wouldnt have been so vehement in your disdain for him
Complete and utter bollix full back
I would always put Ireland ahead of Liverpool and it is his behaviour in Saipan that turned me against him.
Bernard Dunne the boxer summed him put perfectly in last nights show
But how do i defend myself when your mind is already made up about me and what I think
Sure why was Dunne on that show anyway, sure he has won nothing yet, the way he going you would swear he was a world champ!! thats never going to happen
Bernard Dunne - FFS ::)
Is this the same Bernard Dunne that said he should have played then walked over & chinned Mc Carthy or something like that......sayd it all
Keane was right, Mc Carthy was wrong IMHO
Quote from: full back on August 20, 2008, 12:56:30 PM
Bernard Dunne - FFS ::)
Is this the same Bernard Dunne that said he should have played then walked over & chinned Mc Carthy or something like that......sayd it all
Keane was right, Mc Carthy was wrong IMHO
Fair enough but maybe i could make the assumption if Keane wasn't a Man U player you wouldn't be so for him and think he was right ;)
I think both you and Keane are wrong :)
On a side note
I had to laugh though at Eammon Dunphy defending Keane last night back in 2002,Now he hates Keane
Just accept you are wrong LL & we can both move on ;)
Dunphy is some craic alright - he is as shallow as a puddle FFS
Very entertaining IMHO, but everything he says has to be taken with a bag of salt
Roy Keane was treated like a child in Saipan, led into a pig circus that any manager would have known was going to cause a massive row that completely jeopardised any chance of Ireland competing at that World Cup. That Ireland did was a godsend more than any masterstroke on McCarthy's part. Even if McCarthy was surprised by his reaction that would probably tell you more about his man-management skills than anything else.
Oh, and Croke Park shouldn't have been opened up without the consent of a majority of the GAA. Both sides had valid arguments and at least democracy won through, to an extent.
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2008, 10:55:58 AM
By the rules of the games she won her medals fair and square.
We celebrated Kelly and Roche though ;D
exactly to both points
as for samples they werent found to contain anything
the observers watched her pee into the cups
the cups of samples sealed at house and left the house with seals unbroken
so - how could smith have tampered with them?
it was a vendetta against her husband by the ioc / testers because of his history
if she had been a yank would there have been any allegations? i dont think so
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: full back on August 20, 2008, 12:56:30 PM
Bernard Dunne - FFS ::)
Is this the same Bernard Dunne that said he should have played then walked over & chinned Mc Carthy or something like that......sayd it all
Keane was right, Mc Carthy was wrong IMHO
Fair enough but maybe i could make the assumption if Keane wasn't a Man U player you wouldn't be so for him and think he was right ;)
I think both you and Keane are wrong :)
On a side note
I had to laugh though at Eammon Dunphy defending Keane last night back in 2002,Now he hates Keane
Does he ?? Why so ???
Quote from: glenullinabu on August 20, 2008, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2008, 10:55:58 AM
By the rules of the games she won her medals fair and square.
We celebrated Kelly and Roche though ;D
exactly to both points
as for samples they werent found to contain anything
the observers watched her pee into the cups
the cups of samples sealed at house and left the house with seals unbroken
so - how could smith have tampered with them?
it was a vendetta against her husband by the ioc / testers because of his history
if she had been a yank would there have been any allegations? i dont think so
As far as I've heard, there were doubts as to whether she was properly observed when she took some of her tests. Wasn't there an American swimmer who saw the water fizz or something as well?
Quote from: orangeman on August 20, 2008, 10:55:09 AM
Quote from: Uladh on August 20, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
Kimmage can say what he likes but that's not the actual findings. she was charged and convicted of tampering with her sample only
A bit like being stopped by the cops and you full as a sheugh and not providing a sample !
Is that full as a shuck? Is that the way to spell it?
This was the 20 moments of the television age so rules out Bloody Sunday.
I thought some of the voting was strange. Was the ref blowing up 2 mins early in the Clare v Offaly match really more shocking than Shergar being kidnapped or the sale of Milltown?
However it was quite a good show - interesting the GAA refused to let them use footage of the Aussie series violence.
Sean Boylan came off surprisingly well too.
Anyone got the full 20 moments in the order they were placed
You'll find them here.
http://www.rte.ie/tv/20moments/ (http://www.rte.ie/tv/20moments/)
I thought the Milltown one was hiarious. The Kilcoyne's try and bring back the glory days and birng the crowds back only for the 'fans' to stay away in their droves!
Then when the situation worsens all of a sudden these thousands of Shamrocks supporters come from nowhere and don't want Milltown to be sold.... they have some cheek on them. If the Kilcoyne's had any sense they would have disbanded the bloody club!
Quote from: under the bar on August 19, 2008, 10:11:42 PM
Charlie Redmond not leaving the field when sent off by Paddy Russell in 1995 AIF makes no 16. Redmond is laffin his bollix off on the show knowing fine well that the game should have been awarded to Tyrone due to his refusal to leave the pitch. Not that I'd have wanted to win our first all-ireland that way! Well not now anyway! >:( ;) :D :P
He's not the Messiah, he's just a very naughty boy
(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/06/08/fondue_lifeofbrian_wideweb__470x318,0.jpg)
we now finally know laois lad is related to jimmy magee. saying michelle smith won all her awards naturally is like saying the east germans never cheated in the late 70's and early 80's. they never tested positive in competition so i suppose they were innocent as well. linford christie i suppose he was clean as well never tested positive at the olympic games.
you got to be joking. only an idiot would think those people were clean.
Quote from: glenullinabu on August 20, 2008, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2008, 10:55:58 AM
By the rules of the games she won her medals fair and square.
We celebrated Kelly and Roche though ;D
exactly to both points
as for samples they werent found to contain anything
the observers watched her pee into the cups
the cups of samples sealed at house and left the house with seals unbroken
so - how could smith have tampered with them?
it was a vendetta against her husband by the ioc / testers because of his history
if she had been a yank would there have been any allegations? i dont think so
As well as whiskey they also found Androstenedione in her urine sample
exactly steroids were found in her sample, and anyone with half a brain cell knows you can't improve like her or like the chinese swimmers did in this olympic games without the help of certain agents. physiologically impossible. End of. We're all so quick to point out others , but when it comes to our own, we stay quiet.
thought Paidi's was the funniest myself, he was jarred doing the interview and the head on him. hilarious.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 20, 2008, 03:57:03 PM
we now finally know laois lad is related to jimmy magee. saying michelle smith won all her awards naturally is like saying the east germans never cheated in the late 70's and early 80's. they never tested positive in competition so i suppose they were innocent as well. linford christie i suppose he was clean as well never tested positive at the olympic games.
you got to be joking. only an idiot would think those people were clean.
I never said anything about east germans or linford christie,but as for Michelle i am giving her the benefit of the doubt which is impossible for most Irish people because we are all a pack of begrudgers as a nation
And less of the insults INDIANA just because you have a different view doesn't make everyone else idiots ::)
Try and not let yourself down by resorting to such comments there's a good boy.. :)
ps I am not related to Jimmy Mcgee :)
Quoteonly an idiot would think those people were clean.
Personally I think they are all at it in some shape or form, whether taking drugs during training then cleverly masking them ever having been in the system, to trying to increase the bodies natural production of performance-enhancing chemicals. I don't think that it's any co-incidence that the US, China etc. are also at the forefront of pharmaceutical research. They are probably using drugs that the Olympic Drug Committee don't even know exist yet!
Quote from: screenexile on August 20, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
I thought the Milltown one was hiarious. The Kilcoyne's try and bring back the glory days and birng the crowds back only for the 'fans' to stay away in their droves!
Then when the situation worsens all of a sudden these thousands of Shamrocks supporters come from nowhere and don't want Milltown to be sold.... they have some cheek on them. If the Kilcoyne's had any sense they would have disbanded the bloody club!
And you believe the Kilcoynes why? Heaven forbid they spin their story. ::) The low crowds referred to were during the Tolka boycott. They sold the stadium and dumped the club out of pure greed. No mention on the show of them ripping off the Jesuits to get their hands on the land in the first place.
The reality was no-one wanted the place sold. Thousands marched, campaigned, all political parties backed KRAM, even the GAA supported them as if Milltown could go, anywhere could, yet the brown envelope culture won out. It was the first ominious example of who really ran Dublin.
I'm old enough to remember it and it was horrifying to watch how easy it was for the Kilcoynes to get away with it.
How are Rovers these days - still in business?
Sprint and middle-distance swimmers peak in their very early 20s- look at Thorpe retired already and he's only 25, Phelps is at his peak at 23 and won 6 golds at 19, that doll Addlington's only 19, basically if you're going to be a top swimmer everyone knows about it by your late teens. Smith only came onto the scene as a top competitor in the worlds a year before the Olympics, she was 25/26 at that stage and was being trained by her drug cheat husband. She avoided loads of tests by different devious methods and then was found to have tampered with her urine when tested in 1998. You don't have to be a "begrudger" to take the viewpoint that most people take, that she attained her gold medals by cheating. You'd have be very naive to think otherwide IMO.
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:27:59 PM
Sprint and middle-distance swimmers peak in their very early 20s- look at Thorpe retired already and he's only 25, Phelps is at his peak at 23 and won 6 golds at 19, that doll Addlington's only 19, basically if you're going to be a top swimmer everyone knows about it by your late teens. Smith only came onto the scene as a top competitor in the worlds a year before the Olympics, she was 25/26 at that stage and was being trained by her drug cheat husband. She avoided loads of tests by different devious methods and then was found to have tampered with her urine when tested in 1998. You don't have to be a "begrudger" to take the viewpoint that most people take, that she attained her gold medals by cheating. You'd have be very naive to think otherwide IMO.
All only allegations no hard concrete proof that she was on drugs in Atlanta '96..Unless you have some proof ???
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 05:30:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:27:59 PM
Sprint and middle-distance swimmers peak in their very early 20s- look at Thorpe retired already and he's only 25, Phelps is at his peak at 23 and won 6 golds at 19, that doll Addlington's only 19, basically if you're going to be a top swimmer everyone knows about it by your late teens. Smith only came onto the scene as a top competitor in the worlds a year before the Olympics, she was 25/26 at that stage and was being trained by her drug cheat husband. She avoided loads of tests by different devious methods and then was found to have tampered with her urine when tested in 1998. You don't have to be a "begrudger" to take the viewpoint that most people take, that she attained her gold medals by cheating. You'd have be very naive to think otherwide IMO.
All only allegations no hard concrete proof that she was on drugs in Atlanta '96..Unless you have some proof ???
I had proof but I destroyed it.
Quote from: rrhf on August 20, 2008, 05:11:56 PM
How are Rovers these days - still in business?
I presume so. Didn't they change to becoming a members club in the GAA mould?
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2008, 05:34:11 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 05:30:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:27:59 PM
Sprint and middle-distance swimmers peak in their very early 20s- look at Thorpe retired already and he's only 25, Phelps is at his peak at 23 and won 6 golds at 19, that doll Addlington's only 19, basically if you're going to be a top swimmer everyone knows about it by your late teens. Smith only came onto the scene as a top competitor in the worlds a year before the Olympics, she was 25/26 at that stage and was being trained by her drug cheat husband. She avoided loads of tests by different devious methods and then was found to have tampered with her urine when tested in 1998. You don't have to be a "begrudger" to take the viewpoint that most people take, that she attained her gold medals by cheating. You'd have be very naive to think otherwide IMO.
All only allegations no hard concrete proof that she was on drugs in Atlanta '96..Unless you have some proof ???
I had proof but I destroyed it.
Good man you done the right thing
Why else would she have avoided so many tests, made herself so difficult to track down, tampered with her urine if she wasn't using drugs? (Leaving aside the ridiculous and unprecedented improvements in her swimming)
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Why else would she have avoided so many tests, made herself so difficult to track down, tampered with her urine if she wasn't using drugs? (Leaving aside the ridiculous and unprecedented improvements in her swimming)
exactly
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Why else would she have avoided so many tests, made herself so difficult to track down, tampered with her urine if she wasn't using drugs? (Leaving aside the ridiculous and unprecedented improvements in her swimming)
avoiding the unwanted amorous advances of his holiness?
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Why else would she have avoided so many tests, made herself so difficult to track down, tampered with her urine if she wasn't using drugs? (Leaving aside the ridiculous and unprecedented improvements in her swimming)
Thats all only your assumptions...
So any hard evidence for me?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Why else would she have avoided so many tests, made herself so difficult to track down, tampered with her urine if she wasn't using drugs? (Leaving aside the ridiculous and unprecedented improvements in her swimming)
Thats all only your assumptions...
So any hard evidence for me?
Eh... those are all hard facts LL. The assumption based logically on those is that she was doping.
The onus is on the athlete to prove she was clean. She was asked for evidence (as you have repeatedly done) and she wouldn't provide it. Don't understand how anyone could have any respect for her.
Sure what about Christine Ohuruogu? Missed no less than 3 drugs tests yet shes given the benefit of the doubt and represents GB with their blessing. Doesn't matter what inferences can be drawn or fingers pointed, so long as they arent caught red-handed they are still treated like heroes. Look at Linford Christie ffs. Got faster the from age 34 onwards!
Quote from: Over the Bar on August 20, 2008, 07:30:02 PM
Sure what about Christine Ohuruogu? Missed no less than 3 drugs tests yet shes given the benefit of the doubt and represents GB with their blessing. Doesn't matter what inferences can be drawn or fingers pointed, so long as they arent caught red-handed they are still treated like heroes. Look at Linford Christie ffs. Got faster the from age 34 onwards!
Spot on, had typed a line about her in the post but deleted it to avoid a debate on the english in the GAA section, but her medal and the media coverage is a disgrace and an embarrassment to the entire GB team and nation.
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 20, 2008, 07:25:04 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Why else would she have avoided so many tests, made herself so difficult to track down, tampered with her urine if she wasn't using drugs? (Leaving aside the ridiculous and unprecedented improvements in her swimming)
Thats all only your assumptions...
So any hard evidence for me?
Eh... those are all hard facts LL. The assumption based logically on those is that she was doping.
The onus is on the athlete to prove she was clean. She was asked for evidence (as you have repeatedly done) and she wouldn't provide it. Don't understand how anyone could have any respect for her.
Yes those are hard facts but not evidence..I'm not defending what happend with the tampering of the sample's,I'm talking about the medals she won and still holds as a Olympic champion...
As the bold Jimmy said last night it's strange she never broke a World,Olympic or European time record while winning those medals..Maybe the other swimmers were just shite..
Over and out on this topic for me :)
over and out because you know you've lost the argument. like i said before east german swimmers,linford christie, michelle smith, chinese swimmers - all drug cheats. and none of them real olympians in my view.
just cheats.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 20, 2008, 08:59:26 PM
over and out because you know you've lost the argument. like i said before east german swimmers,linford christie, michelle smith, chinese swimmers - all drug cheats. and none of them real olympians in my view.
just cheats.
I knew someone would come up with a stupid comment like that,and i also knew it be you... ::)
Over and out because we are going around in circles..There is no arguement to be lost either as no one can prove if she did or did not take drugs at the Atlanta Olympics...Unless you know something i don't about her failing a drugs test in Atlanta?
Thought not
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 20, 2008, 07:35:42 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on August 20, 2008, 07:30:02 PM
Sure what about Christine Ohuruogu? Missed no less than 3 drugs tests yet shes given the benefit of the doubt and represents GB with their blessing. Doesn't matter what inferences can be drawn or fingers pointed, so long as they arent caught red-handed they are still treated like heroes. Look at Linford Christie ffs. Got faster the from age 34 onwards!
Spot on, had typed a line about her in the post but deleted it to avoid a debate on the english in the GAA section, but her medal and the media coverage is a disgrace and an embarrassment to the entire GB team and nation.
If you only read the Sun and Star, perhaps. The headline in the Times was something along the lines of "Gold for Ohuruogu but the questions run and run". There was no trumpeting of her gold medal and the journalist, Matt Dickinson i think, said suspicion would always surround her medal.
Haven't seen any of the English papers, bar the back page of the Sun, but the BBC are pathetic clambering over her.
can't prove stephen roche took it during 1987 either , but we all know an Italian court judge concluded that he used banned substances laoislad. bit of a coincidence having one great year like smith and never being heard of again, but at least unlike smith he was not far off world class to begin with. she was never near it before or after, bit like the chinese runners who beat O Sullivan and were never heard of again. I suppose they were clean too.
What about Rio?! I don't remember any questions about United winning trebles? Champion's League? Umpteen premierships! Give me a break. The incident happened, she was charged with what she did, served her time and because of it is probably more tested than ever. There is no way that she could have won that medal by taking drugs. It would be an impossibility!
Ilistened to her give a full and frank interview about the whole affair. From that I drew the conclusion that she did not take drugs and it is up to everyone to make their own mids up. I just don't like double standards when Rio is paraded as some kind athetic role model by people who will then lambaste Ohourogu.
Btw I also think Smith was on the drugs!
I think Cain O'Conner and WaterFord Crystal meth is more likley to have been guilty anyway.
In Ferdinand's case was the assumption not that it was the aul recreational stuff he was taking, rather than the performance enhancing ones?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 20, 2008, 09:12:51 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 20, 2008, 08:59:26 PM
over and out because you know you've lost the argument. like i said before east german swimmers,linford christie, michelle smith, chinese swimmers - all drug cheats. and none of them real olympians in my view.
just cheats.
I knew someone would come up with a stupid comment like that,and i also knew it be you... ::)
Over and out because we are going around in circles..There is no arguement to be lost either as no one can prove if she did or did not take drugs at the Atlanta Olympics...Unless you know something i don't about her failing a drugs test in Atlanta?
Thought not
So your saying it only matters if she was actually taking drugs during the 1996 Olympics. It's already been said that the benefit to be had is from doping in the training for the events. I only took issue because you said she was Ireland's greatest sportsperson or something to that effect I think, which is harsh on every sportsperson who hasn't cheated.
Over and out for me too on this Laoislad, I sort of admire your blind faith though. At least we can both agree on Roy Keane in Saipan!
No one will ever be able to say definitively that she was on drugs at or before Atlanta. But we can use our judgement and there is too much weighted against here
- disaapearing from competitive action for years
- smashing of her personal bests in a short period of time
- performing so well so far past the recognised swimming peak
- her husband and trainer having a history with performance enhancing steroids
- her evasiveness when it came to giving a sample to the testers and the subsquent tampering
- a lack of any notable success since then.
There may be no actual hard facts to say she was on drugs at the time of winning gold, thats why she still has the medals, but there's an awful lot of smoke and its a serious leap of faith to take her word for it.
thought Paidi's was the funniest myself, he was jarred doing the interview and the head on him. hilarious.
[/quote]
Have to agree with that.
Marty Morrissey - "Paidi, will you resign?"
Paidi - "I'll resign as much as that boat over there".
Cue shot of boat floating in the harbour. ;D ;D
I see another one of our showjumping horses has tested positive for a banned substance. He should be ashamed of himself.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 21, 2008, 12:00:17 PM
I see another one of our showjumping horses has tested positive for a banned substance. He should be ashamed of himself.
That explains the long face.......
I think that Horse should be put out to grass for a long time. Once a cheat always a cheat. Why do they drug horses by the way. Is it ti calm the nerves.
QuoteIn Ferdinand's case was the assumption not that it was the aul recreational stuff he was taking, rather than the performance enhancing ones?
I think it's generally accepted he took neither but was just as stupid as to miss the test. He offered a test a couple of hours later and even a hair sample to show he was clean but they said rules were rules. His intelligence credentials for being England captain are up there with the rest of them.
Quote from: under the bar on August 19, 2008, 11:28:36 PM
QuoteBloody Sunday was never mentioned.
Where 13-man Tyrone beat Derry's All-Ireland winners?
That was in the Ulster semi of 1995 when Down were reigning all-Ireland champs you inbred. Derry won it in 1993
Anyway if your gonna be that petty what about the Derry team of 2006 that beat the Tyrone team that had walked the All-Ireland final against Kerry in 2005?
doesnt qualify either does it as nobody cares outside Derry and Tyrone. Now Grow up!
Quote from: feetofflames on August 21, 2008, 12:17:52 PM
I think that Horse should be put out to grass for a long time. Once a cheat always a cheat. Why do they drug horses by the way. Is it ti calm the nerves.
Some horses are a wee bit hyper and will clip fences because of this - they give them small doses to clam them so they are easier handled.
Did the horse knowingly take the banned supplement?
Quote from: Over the Bar on August 21, 2008, 12:21:08 PM
QuoteIn Ferdinand's case was the assumption not that it was the aul recreational stuff he was taking, rather than the performance enhancing ones?
I think it's generally accepted he took neither but was just as stupid as to miss the test. He offered a test a couple of hours later and even a hair sample to show he was clean but they said rules were rules. His intelligence credentials for being England captain are up there with the rest of them.
My point being how can it be generally accetped by most that Rio had no wrongdoing other than being stupid when Ohourogo did EXACTLY the same thing and there's now a 'cloud of suspicion' around her WC and Olympic medals.
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 01:23:57 AM
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
Michelle Smith was tested more than any other swimmer
DURING the Atlanta Olympics where she won 3 gold and 1 bronze. the reason for this was in the qualifying rounds for the first one of her events an American Swimmer had the 9th fastest time and therfore missing the final by one place, and being a regular classy American woman she complained and alledged that Michelle Smith
MUST be on drugs as she had improved so much over the previous year and a half, and called for her disqualification, before any test had been taken and with the only
evidence being this sore loser yanks opinion. coincidently any such disqualification would have resulted in the classy Yank getting into the final.
There was no consideration given to the fact that Michelle had been working in a new training base for the last 2 years under a new coach or that she was visibly bigger and stronger than ever before or that her improved times had been contant and gradual over the 2 years not a sudden rise. And most interestingly Michelle smith was waring a new type of streamlined swinsuit that covered the legs and she reckoned it gave her an added edge (every olympics since has seen the female swimmers all waring this type of swimsuit so there must be something in it).
Michelle Smith was tested over and over again during those Olympics and every time she came up clear and the poor wee yank had to F**k of home with her tail between her legs.
No matter what happened after those Olympics she def didnt cheat during them as she was targeted and tested extensively.
Is Bolt drug assisted ?
QuoteThat was in the Ulster semi of 1995 when Down were reigning all-Ireland champs you inbred. Derry won it in 1993
Which was why I said All-Ireland winners and not champions halfwit!
Quotedoesnt qualify either does it as nobody cares outside Derry and Tyrone. Now Grow up!
It's just satisfying to know that it still riles the bog-dwellers!
Quote from: billy the kid on August 21, 2008, 02:08:58 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on August 20, 2008, 01:23:57 AM
Laoislad- how can you say that about Michelle Smith? You have serious green-tinted glasses if you think any of the world or olympic medals she won were not because of drugs.
Michelle Smith was tested more than any other swimmer DURING the Atlanta Olympics where she won 3 gold and 1 bronze. the reason for this was in the qualifying rounds for the first one of her events an American Swimmer had the 9th fastest time and therfore missing the final by one place, and being a regular classy American woman she complained and alledged that Michelle Smith MUST be on drugs as she had improved so much over the previous year and a half, and called for her disqualification, before any test had been taken and with the only evidence being this sore loser yanks opinion. coincidently any such disqualification would have resulted in the classy Yank getting into the final.
There was no consideration given to the fact that Michelle had been working in a new training base for the last 2 years under a new coach or that she was visibly bigger and stronger than ever before or that her improved times had been contant and gradual over the 2 years not a sudden rise. And most interestingly Michelle smith was waring a new type of streamlined swinsuit that covered the legs and she reckoned it gave her an added edge (every olympics since has seen the female swimmers all waring this type of swimsuit so there must be something in it).
Michelle Smith was tested over and over again during those Olympics and every time she came up clear and the poor wee yank had to F**k of home with her tail between her legs.
No matter what happened after those Olympics she def didnt cheat during them as she was targeted and tested extensively.
Two days after her first gold in Atlanta, Smith won her second in the 400 metres freestyle. She did it in a time of 4 minutes and 7.25 seconds. If any of her events provoked scepticism among the swimming community in Atlanta, it was the 400m free. And not just scepticism but outright incredulity. In April 1995 she swam a personal best of 4:26.18. In July 1996 she swam 4:08.64 in Florida. Three weeks later she won Olympic gold with a time of 4:07.25.
In the space of 16 months she had chopped almost 19 seconds off her personal best! A rate of improvement that was not so much dubious as farcical.
Her 4:08.64 swim in Florida came a day late for official entries for Atlanta. It was not an officially sanctioned event as the pool was not fitted with electronic pads and the time sheet was filled out until the following day. Nevertheless the Olympic Council of Ireland submitted an application to have Smith entered in the 400m free. The USA, Germany and the Netherlands objected. They were overruled and, at
26, Smith became the oldest winner ever of the event. The average age of the ten previous winners was
17.
The Chemists are always well ahead of the Testers. In Atlanta, Michelle Smith was at least 2 years ahead of them.
I genuinely find it amazing that anybody can defend Smith and can only assume that, at least to a certain extent, the posters supporting her are either on the wind-up or are so blinded by a false sense of patriotism that they can't see this cheat for what she is.
QuoteIf Brian O'Driscoll had any balls on him he would have dumped Martin Johnson on his hole the day of the anthems in Landsdowne Road, Would have loved to see the reaction if Mick Galway or Paul O'Connell was captain that day.
Yeah, would have loved to seen what happened if Galwey was captain.
O'Driscoll mentioned that some of the team wanted to stand in front of the england team but he decided not to.
He "admired" them for doing it ::)
Irish eyes were smiling during the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. Michelle Smith was the pride of Ireland after winning three gold and one bronze medal in the pool.
No one else was smiling. Her rise to the top of the swimming world was extremely suspicious.
In two previous Olympic Games, Smith's best result was 17th in the 200-metre backstroke.
In 1993, she was ranked 90th in the world in the 400 individual medley, but after training with husband Erik de Bruin – a former Dutch discus thrower who was under a four-year suspension for failing a drug test – she vaulted into 17th in the world by the next year.
By Atlanta, the 26-year-old Smith had won several European titles and trimmed a whopping 17 seconds off two personal bests.
After her Olympic success, it was discovered that FINA, swimming's international federation, had repeatedly expressed concern that Smith was unavailable for out-of-competition drug tests from 1995 onward.
Finally, in 1998, two drug testers showed up at Smith and de Bruin's home.
Smith gave them a sample, but because she was wearing a bulky sweater, the tester couldn't see what she was doing. The sample was sealed and sent to a Barcelona lab for examination. The results were shocking. The sample contained a level of alcohol that would be fatal if consumed by a human.
FINA concluded that the sample had been manipulated, that whiskey had been added as a masking agent and they suspended Smith for four years.
Those athletes who finished behind Smith in 1996 – including Canadians Marianne Limpert (silver) and Joanne Malar (fourth) in the 200IM – can only wonder what might have been.
----
The bit that always got me, it appears she simply put whiskey in the sample yes? Surely that would not be enough to be fatal to a human?
Quote from: corn02 on August 21, 2008, 04:43:15 PM
The bit that always got me, it appears she simply put whiskey in the sample yes? Surely that would not be enough to be fatal to a human?
She put whiskey in & if your p1ss had that much alcohol in it you would die i.e imagine how much alcohol there was in her system if she was p1ssing full strength whiskey
Quote from: corn02 on August 21, 2008, 04:43:15 PM
The bit that always got me, it appears she simply put whiskey in the sample yes? Surely that would not be enough to be fatal to a human?
The concentration of alcohol in her urine was so high as to be impossible for a living human. You could drink all that whiskey but your body would absorb a lot of it before you piss it out.
ah yes, of course it never crossed my mind that they would be testing it as piss and not simple whiskey. Very stupid on my behalf.
Quote from: corn02 on August 21, 2008, 04:53:06 PM
ah yes, of course it never crossed my mind that they would be testing it as piss and not simple whiskey. Very stupid on my behalf.
Or maybe Corn you were just taking the piss ::)
QuoteThe sample contained a level of alcohol that would be fatal if consumed by a human.
I'm sure Shane McGowan could give that theroy a firm testing.....