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yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

wexford played a great last ten minutes to beat one of the ugliest,over hyped,anti-football counties of the 21st century that will not be missed by true gaels.they have the spirit of the gaa in them that fills with hope and joy to underdogs.

kerry and galway played the best game in croke park since 2000 in poor weather.the game as it should be played,no blanket defence,no diving,no cynical play,no third man tackle,no ten defenders around the player with the ball and some great scores.if brennan wants to make himself useful he should demand that a copy of this game is sent on dvd to every boy and girl playing in ulster.

after watching the heap of shit ireland saw last week that blocked the toilet yesterday saw it flushed down.

only dublin to i hope clean tyrone out next and the puke era will be over.

What has the Galway Kerry game got to do with ulster? It was a good game fair enough but wasnt as good to watch as the Tyrone Down replay which had more scores and numerous twists throughout the match.

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 09:53:33 AM
yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

wexford played a great last ten minutes to beat one of the ugliest,over hyped,anti-football counties of the 21st century that will not be missed by true gaels.they have the spirit of the gaa in them that fills with hope and joy to underdogs.

kerry and galway played the best game in croke park since 2000 in poor weather.the game as it should be played,no blanket defence,no diving,no cynical play,no third man tackle,no ten defenders around the player with the ball and some great scores.if brennan wants to make himself useful he should demand that a copy of this game is sent on dvd to every boy and girl playing in ulster.

after watching the heap of shit ireland saw last week that blocked the toilet yesterday saw it flushed down.

only dublin to i hope clean tyrone out next and the puke era will be over.

So Pat Spillan is your mentor; please please please define puke football to me; I'm guessing its just Ulster football - get over it son - or at least try and give an opinion yourself instead of quoting from some tool who was bitter that his beloved county was beaten in 2002 2003 and 2005 by far better teams!

Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Quote from: Arthur on August 10, 2008, 10:21:42 AM

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 09:53:33 AM
yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

wexford played a great last ten minutes to beat one of the ugliest,over hyped,anti-football counties of the 21st century that will not be missed by true gaels.they have the spirit of the gaa in them that fills with hope and joy to underdogs.

kerry and galway played the best game in croke park since 2000 in poor weather.the game as it should be played,no blanket defence,no diving,no cynical play,no third man tackle,no ten defenders around the player with the ball and some great scores.if brennan wants to make himself useful he should demand that a copy of this game is sent on dvd to every boy and girl playing in ulster.

after watching the heap of shit ireland saw last week that blocked the toilet yesterday saw it flushed down.

only dublin to i hope clean tyrone out next and the puke era will be over.

So Pat Spillan is your mentor; please please please define puke football to me; I'm guessing its just Ulster football - get over it son - or at least try and give an opinion yourself instead of quoting from some tool who was bitter that his beloved county was beaten in 2002 2003 and 2005 by far better teams!

read everything that dubsforsam1 has said.plus diving and faking injury.

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

What about jumping up and down in players faces and pointing at score boards - is that puke football?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 10, 2008, 10:42:51 AM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

What about jumping up and down in players faces and pointing at score boards - is that puke football?

Yes it is and I complained about Dublin doing it last year and said they shouldn't and they have stopped that this year......though the likes of Freeman, Donaghy, McDonnell, McMenamin and others seem to get away with it for some reason!!

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Surely the aim of the game is to score more than your opposition; whether that be you score 4 and they score 3 - so what - or have I missed something?

Quote from: Arthur on August 10, 2008, 10:50:07 AM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Surely the aim of the game is to score more than your opposition; whether that be you score 4 and they score 3 - so what - or have I missed something?

Well as Fermanagh/Armagh etc have found out when you only have 1 or 2 players capable of scoring it means that you are far less likely to win games especially against good teams....but if you want to keep trying to win games when you will rarely score more than 10-12 points per match fine and dandy....maybe if you tried picking good forwards who can score and defenders who can defend you would have a better chance...

and if we started seeing games of  4 point to 3 how long before people would stop watching them???

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:44:31 AM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 10, 2008, 10:42:51 AM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

What about jumping up and down in players faces and pointing at score boards - is that puke football?

Yes it is and I complained about Dublin doing it last year and said they shouldn't and they have stopped that this year......though the likes of Freeman, Donaghy, McDonnell, McMenamin and others seem to get away with it for some reason!!

Do they? I didn't notice.

Arthur

Quote
Surely the aim of the game is to score more than your opposition; whether that be you score 4 and they score 3 - so what - or have I missed something?

Yeah, Dublin can't beat it - that's why it's puke football. 
In Dublin's half time team talks they discuss what gameplan and tactics will please the crowd, winning is just a bonus.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 10, 2008, 10:42:51 AM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

What about jumping up and down in players faces and pointing at score boards - is that puke football?

what about pointing to the number on the back of your jersery?

I think its a load of aul bollix when people go on about the right and wrong way to play football,At the end of the day football same as any sport is about winning..
Right some of the games that are played lets say negatively are not great as a spectacle for the neutral but i could safely say every single poster on this board would not give a flying f**k what way their respective county played if it meant they won the All Ireland
Only the begrudgers would  remember what style of play they used to win,The winning team and fans wouldn't give a toss and if that means playing "puke" ::) football to win then so be it

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 10:56:30 AM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 10, 2008, 10:42:51 AM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

What about jumping up and down in players faces and pointing at score boards - is that puke football?

what about pointing to the number on the back of your jersery?

What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with a bit of a celebration is there?

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 10, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
I think its a load of aul bollix when people go on about the right and wrong way to play football,At the end of the day football same as any sport is about winning..
Right some of the games that are played lets say negatively are not great as a spectacle for the neutral but i could safely say every single poster on this board would not give a flying f**k what way their respective county played if it meant they won the All Ireland
Only the begrudgers would  remember what style of play they used to win,The winning team and fans wouldn't give a toss and if that means playing "puke" ::) football to win then so be it

one word sums it all up

reputation

In answer to the question you posed, well yes and no. I agree it was a good day for football for 2 reasons. 1) It is good to see a new team emerge and play good football like Wexford did and in doing so bring up the quality of Leinster football - which has not been great for a while. 2) The 2nd game was unique in that galway went player to player against Kerry and matched them for 3/4 of the game - but then you could argue that they were niave to  think they could win against a superior team playing with those tactics. Even so, the fact it was one on one is what resulted in some tremendous scoring. The "no" part to my answer is for your childish comments on Armagh. I think Armagh have been a great team for the past 10 years. They reintroduced direct football into the GAA successfully. They are a big strong team and I personally enjoy watching them play. Making silly comments about them like you did ranks of jealousy to me.

Armagh and Tyrone took Gaelic football to a new level in terms of preparation,commitment,tackling and intensity.I will never forget the All-Ireland Semi-Final of 2005 when these 2 great teams battled it out in what was one of the most intense games I have ever watched.I remember being physically drained after watching that game.Imagine how the players felt.That may not rate among some peoples prioritys when watching football but I challenge any man to show me a game that was played with as much commitment and power by 2 teams at the peak of their powers.That was the Real All-Ireland Final that year.
Armagh and Tyrone have been a credit to Ulster and both teams have produced some of the greatest players this country is likely to see.

There was lots of nice, pretty football played and plenty of decent scores in that game all right, but it was a bit lacking in tension and suspense. Maybe others feel different, but those are essential elements of an exceptional sporting occasion for me. In terms of an overall spectacle, it didn't measure up to games like the Armagh-Tyrone or Mayo-Dublin semis for me.

Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2008, 12:29:35 PM
There was lots of nice, pretty football played and plenty of decent scores in that game all right, but it was a bit lacking in tension and suspense. Maybe others feel different, but those are essential elements of an exceptional sporting occasion for me. In terms of an overall spectacle, it didn't measure up to games like the Armagh-Tyrone or Mayo-Dublin semis for me.

Thats a fair comment but I dont think the point of the thread was regards suspense, tension or even the game as a spectacle. It was reference to quality, the way football should be played. The quality of the scoretaking yesterday was second to none, while the other two games you referred to were undoubtedly exciting, yesterday was unrivalled in terms of class.

Anyone want to see what Spillane terms 'Puke Football'. Watch Kerry against Tyrone in the All Ireland Final in 1986. Kerry played with about 12 backs that day and of course Spillane was one of them. At one point , he caught the ball ON HIS OWN LINE. Practically playing full back.

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 12:42:33 PM

Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2008, 12:29:35 PM
There was lots of nice, pretty football played and plenty of decent scores in that game all right, but it was a bit lacking in tension and suspense. Maybe others feel different, but those are essential elements of an exceptional sporting occasion for me. In terms of an overall spectacle, it didn't measure up to games like the Armagh-Tyrone or Mayo-Dublin semis for me.

Thats a fair comment but I dont think the point of the thread was regards suspense, tension or even the game as a spectacle. It was reference to quality, the way football should be played. The quality of the scoretaking yesterday was second to none, while the other two games you referred to were undoubtedly exciting, yesterday was unrivalled in terms of class.

Fair enough, but what are teams supposed to do? Just throw caution to the wind and get involved in a futile shoot-out with a side like Kerry (or even Galway)? Donegal got stung this year in Ulster precisely because we didn't take extra steps to stifle Paddy Bradley. I would have much preferred to have seen us play a bit more negatively and win the game - I'm pretty sure the general consensus in Donegal was the same where people couldn't understand why McIver didn't employ a tactic that worked very well in the last meeting in 2006.

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 10:40:48 AM

Quote from: Arthur on August 10, 2008, 10:21:42 AM

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 09:53:33 AM
yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

wexford played a great last ten minutes to beat one of the ugliest,over hyped,anti-football counties of the 21st century that will not be missed by true gaels.they have the spirit of the gaa in them that fills with hope and joy to underdogs.
kerry and galway played the best game in croke park since 2000 in poor weather.the game as it should be played,no blanket defence,no diving,no cynical play,no third man tackle,no ten defenders around the player with the ball and some great scores.if brennan wants to make himself useful he should demand that a copy of this game is sent on dvd to every boy and girl playing in ulster.

after watching the heap of shit ireland saw last week that blocked the toilet yesterday saw it flushed down.

only dublin to i hope clean tyrone out next and the puke era will be over.

So Pat Spillan is your mentor; please please please define puke football to me; I'm guessing its just Ulster football - get over it son - or at least try and give an opinion yourself instead of quoting from some tool who was bitter that his beloved county was beaten in 2002 2003 and 2005 by far better teams!

read everything that dubsforsam1 has said.plus diving and faking injury.

Yes, yesterday was good for football. But you've just praised Wexford for their great achievement as underdogs, but ignored that M Forde is far from an angel when it comes to the diving and faking injury - even yesterday!

And what, tell me, is a true gael?

Quote from: mylestheslasher on August 10, 2008, 11:39:25 AM
In answer to the question you posed, well yes and no. I agree it was a good day for football for 2 reasons. 1) It is good to see a new team emerge and play good football like Wexford did and in doing so bring up the quality of Leinster football

Let's not carried away - Wexford played good football??  They did well and all but there was more diving by Wexford yesterday than we've seen all the other games played this year to date!!

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 09:53:33 AM
yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

wexford played a great last ten minutes to beat one of the ugliest,over hyped,anti-football counties of the 21st century that will not be missed by true gaels.they have the spirit of the gaa in them that fills with hope and joy to underdogs.

kerry and galway played the best game in croke park since 2000 in poor weather.the game as it should be played,no blanket defence,no diving,no cynical play,no third man tackle,no ten defenders around the player with the ball and some great scores.if brennan wants to make himself useful he should demand that a copy of this game is sent on dvd to every boy and girl playing in ulster.

after watching the heap of shit ireland saw last week that blocked the toilet yesterday saw it flushed down.

only dublin to i hope clean tyrone out next and the puke era will be over.

Yeah Tyrone's defensive style was bad for football. Just look at some of the scores they registered during their last All Ireland win and it proves the point about how their puke/defensive style won the All Ireland:

1-13 v Down
3-19 v Cavan (replay)
2-14 v Monaghan
1-14 v Dublin
2-18 v Dublin (replay)
1-16 v Kerry

Its just as well Dubsforsam that Tyrone didnt try to attack v Dublin in that replay if thats what we scored while being defensive!

Quote from: mylestheslasher on August 10, 2008, 11:39:25 AM
In answer to the question you posed, well yes and no. I agree it was a good day for football for 2 reasons. 1) It is good to see a new team emerge and play good football like Wexford did and in doing so bring up the quality of Leinster football - which has not been great for a while. 2) The 2nd game was unique in that galway went player to player against Kerry and matched them for 3/4 of the game - but then you could argue that they were niave to  think they could win against a superior team playing with those tactics. Even so, the fact it was one on one is what resulted in some tremendous scoring. The "no" part to my answer is for your childish comments on Armagh. I think Armagh have been a great team for the past 10 years. They reintroduced direct football into the GAA successfully. They are a big strong team and I personally enjoy watching them play. Making silly comments about them like you did ranks of jealousy to me.

Galway '98 I would have credited with that?  But on the whole Armagh have played decent enough football, and have been involved in what consider to be the best game of the decade (the 05 semi) but I wasn't impressed by some of their challenges when it became apparent that they were beat yesterday, it was needless and didn't do them any credit at all.

Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2008, 12:29:35 PM
There was lots of nice, pretty football played and plenty of decent scores in that game all right, but it was a bit lacking in tension and suspense. Maybe others feel different, but those are essential elements of an exceptional sporting occasion for me. In terms of an overall spectacle, it didn't measure up to games like the Armagh-Tyrone or Mayo-Dublin semis for me.

In total agreement with that.

Wouldn't be in agreement with that. Armagh simply don't have the personnel since 2002 when they could actually play football like that produced in the 2nd game yesterday. in 2002 armagh had the right balance between defence and attack. Now with an exceptionally limited outfit they have to play 12 men back , and unfortunately in recent years since 2005 semi it has invariably contributed to an awful spectacle when they are playing.
The reality is the 12 men defence is the realm of limited outfits trying to punch above their weight. At the end of the day the result is always the same, these teams all eventually lose. Thats why Galway didn't play the 12men defence that armagh would have done against Kerry. Because firstly it doesn't suit their style and secondlylike armagh they would have lost anyway because regardless of defensive systems the team with the best scoring forwards 99times out of 100 always wins. The only chance galway had was to go toe to toe,and it nearly paid off for them. I salute the likes of Galway for restoring my faith in football and to hell with the begrudgers. The reality is they wish their county could play ball like it.

Indiana you're getting worse, that post doesn't make any sense.
The team with the best forwards win 99 times out of 100 -  :D - no they don't.

Quote
The reality is the 12 men defence is the realm of limited outfits trying to punch above their weight. At the end of the day the result is always the same, these teams all eventually lose.

All teams eventually lose  :D

Quote from: INDIANA on August 10, 2008, 01:35:28 PM
Wouldn't be in agreement with that. Armagh simply don't have the personnel since 2002 when they could actually play football like that produced in the 2nd game yesterday. in 2002 armagh had the right balance between defence and attack. Now with an exceptionally limited outfit they have to play 12 men back , and unfortunately in recent years since 2005 semi it has invariably contributed to an awful spectacle when they are playing.
The reality is the 12 men defence is the realm of limited outfits trying to punch above their weight. At the end of the day the result is always the same, these teams all eventually lose. Thats why Galway didn't play the 12men defence that armagh would have done against Kerry. Because firstly it doesn't suit their style and secondlylike armagh they would have lost anyway because regardless of defensive systems the team with the best scoring forwards 99times out of 100 always wins. The only chance galway had was to go toe to toe,and it nearly paid off for them. I salute the likes of Galway for restoring my faith in football and to hell with the begrudgers. The reality is they wish their county could play ball like it.

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

because you're missing the fundamental point still.Galway don't have the personnel to play the sort of system you're talking about. had they played 12 men defence  ala armagh against wexford they still would have lost. they've played a defensive system for the last 3 years and achieved nothing, so they may as well play the styleof football they always have because they have won  a few all-irelands with it.
Pints when you actaully have something worthwhile to say, fell free to enagage but until then Olympics is on RTE , possibly where you might be better suited to tuning in
But my point on forwards is very valid if you look at the results.
In 2002 armagh had 5 scoring forwards they now have 2
In 2005 tyrone had the same.
The reason why kerry have won so many all-irelands is because they score easier than everyone else, even an idiot knows that. But possibly you don't
Gaelic Football didn't start in 2002 maybe the chickens are coming home to roost on that one. Its still the same game it always was.

QuoteGalway don't have the personnel to play the sort of system you're talking about.

Yes but the likes of Tyrone and Armagh do, - why would they go out and play Kerry's game if they think they can stand a better chance playing their own game?   
What you're saying is completely idiotic. 
You're praising Galway for going "toe to toe" wiht Kerry yesterday - do you think it's much consolation to Galway today that it was a good game for the neurtral?

Quote from: INDIANA on August 10, 2008, 02:01:25 PM
because you're missing the fundamental point still.Galway don't have the personnel to play the sort of system you're talking about. had they played 12 men defence  ala armagh against wexford they still would have lost. they've played a defensive system for the last 3 years and achieved nothing, so they may as well play the styleof football they always have because they have won  a few all-irelands with it.
Pints when you actaully have something worthwhile to say, fell free to enagage but until then Olympics is on RTE , possibly where you might be better suited to tuning in
But my point on forwards is very valid if you look at the results.
In 2002 armagh had 5 scoring forwards they now have 2
In 2005 tyrone had the same.
The reason why kerry have won so many all-irelands is because they score easier than everyone else, even an idiot knows that. But possibly you don't
Gaelic Football didn't start in 2002 maybe the chickens are coming home to roost on that one. Its still the same game it always was.

I thought your fundamental point was that inferior teams punch above their weight by playing defensive football, I would agree with that, obviously however Galway could play that style of football if they wanted, they'd just to have to enlist different personnel.
Btw looks like Kildare are in for a hammering, as I predicted ;)

and the reason is kildare don't score easily. Inferior teams playing defensive systems punch above thier weight until the last 8, then they get beaten regardless of system against better opposition because they struggle to score and results prove that. Wexford have scoring forwards and thats why they are in the last 4. Had galway nicky joyce and sean armstrong and a fully fit matthew clancy yesterday they could quite easily have won. Thats galways styleof football and they've won all-irelands with it.
If we are looking to promote the game we need more games like yesterday, thats the reality. and there was plenty of excellent defensive play yesterday. kerry simply have a range of scoring options no-one else have.

Quoteand the reason is kildare don't score easily. Inferior teams playing defensive systems punch above thier weight until the last 8, then they get beaten regardless of system against better opposition because they struggle to score and results prove that. Wexford have scoring forwards and thats why they are in the last 4.

That's so idiotic it's funny.

I think the point that Indiana is making (and I agree) is that generally the best team of footballers will win the game regardless of the tactics deployed by the respective managers. Tyrone and Armagh didn't win their AI's because of tactics, they won because they had some of the best footballers in the country. It's rubbish to say Galway lost because of naivety, they lost because of 2 missed goal chances, the concession of a few soft frees and some brilliant point taking from Kerry. Cork lost the first half of the Munster final by playing defensively and hammered Kerry in the second by playing attacking route one 15 V 15 football so Kerry can be beaten in a shoot out. Every tactic/style of play has advantages and disadvantages, playing man V man attacking football means you'll probably concede more but you'll also score more. Playing defensive 13 men behind the ball football means you'll concede less but also score less. I know which way I'ds rather see football being played and hopefully the fact that Kerry, Wexford, Cork (looking likely) and Dublin (IMO) will encourage other counties to adopt a more attacking, kicking style of football.

thats exactly it Zulu . And if we can get more teasm to play that style , more people will go to see it. we can't promote gaelic football with matches like kildare  and fermanagh. Armagh and tyrone played terrific atatcking football to win their all-irelands not with the sort of rubbish armagh dished up yesterday.

QuoteI think the point that Indiana is making (and I agree) is that generally the best team of footballers will win the game regardless of the tactics deployed by the respective managers

If that's the case there would be no such thing as tactics.

QuoteCork lost the first half of the Munster final by playing defensively and hammered Kerry in the second by playing attacking route one 15 V 15 football so Kerry can be beaten in a shoot out.

So the change in Cork's tactics at half time meant they went out and won the game.  If what you are saying above is true (that tactics don't matter) then cork's tactics would have been irrelevant.

QuoteTbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

Dont agree with that at all we showed great hunger, heart and desire yesterday Bogball, if you made these comments the last year fair enough but yesterday we were undone by Kerry's class and bad decision making at crucial times

Quote from: Bogball XV on August 10, 2008, 01:50:36 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on August 10, 2008, 01:35:28 PM
Wouldn't be in agreement with that. Armagh simply don't have the personnel since 2002 when they could actually play football like that produced in the 2nd game yesterday. in 2002 armagh had the right balance between defence and attack. Now with an exceptionally limited outfit they have to play 12 men back , and unfortunately in recent years since 2005 semi it has invariably contributed to an awful spectacle when they are playing.
The reality is the 12 men defence is the realm of limited outfits trying to punch above their weight. At the end of the day the result is always the same, these teams all eventually lose. Thats why Galway didn't play the 12men defence that armagh would have done against Kerry. Because firstly it doesn't suit their style and secondlylike armagh they would have lost anyway because regardless of defensive systems the team with the best scoring forwards 99times out of 100 always wins. The only chance galway had was to go toe to toe,and it nearly paid off for them. I salute the likes of Galway for restoring my faith in football and to hell with the begrudgers. The reality is they wish their county could play ball like it.

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

I think the last few years have shown that Galway play their best football when they just go out and play and look to outscore the opposition which is how we've pretty much always played. Obviously you have to defend properly as well but when we tried to adopt a more defensive style under Peter Ford we were brutal to watch. We conceded less scores alright but at the cost of almost completely neutering our attacking instincts. Don't get me wrong I would have liked to have seen a few more big hits on Kerry players yesterday but that will come. Overall I prefer to see us play football rather than flood our own half of the field with 13 players and hope that we can come out on the right side of a dour low scoring struggle.

By the way I think it's a total nonsense to say we need 10 new players to challenge for an AI whether next year or the year after. We need to sort out the midfield a bit and maybe have a bit more luck injury wise than this year but I think we'll be there or thereabouts next year. Kerry are quite clearly ahead of everyone with Dublin probably behind them but I would fancy our chances against anyone else in the country. Kerry are a great side but they won't stay at the top indefinitely so it's up to other sides to position themselves for when the current side start to fade a bit which may be sooner rather than later.

galway need one midfielder  as well as bergin fit , and to get the other fwds fit they were missing yesterday. probably need one more corner back,but they are very much on the way up.10 players is complete rubbish.

QuoteYou're praising Galway for going "toe to toe" wiht Kerry yesterday - do you think it's much consolation to Galway today that it was a good game for the neurtral?

Yes it was a consolation, I would not go to watch Galway live if they returned to the tactics used under Peter Forde. We should stick to what we know best. As I posted on the Galway match thread I could not believe the negativity and cynicism Armagh engaged in yesterday, constant messing off the ball. Id be disgusted if Galway ever had to resort to that to win football matches.

As for the statement that Armagh re-introduced the direct game in Gaelic football ::), it is rightly pointed out that Galway in 1998 did so. Not only that but did so by playing 6 forwards not two up front on their own.

That's nonsense POG, of course tactics play a part for example Fermanghs 'tactics' might allow them beat a team like Derry but they wouldn't help them beat Kerry. IMO Dublin will beat Tyrone next week regardless of the tactics Tyrone deploy because Dublin are the better team, likewise Kerry would have beaten Galway even if Galway played everybody behind the ball except Micheal Meehan because Kerry are the better team. Anyway Galway deployed 'positive tactics' that could have won the game for them if they had taken their goal chances and I'd like to see more counties employ these tactics rather than WM or Fermanaghs tactics.

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:02:07 PM

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

Dont agree with that at all we showed great hunger, heart and desire yesterday Bogball, if you made these comments the last year fair enough but yesterday we were undone by Kerry's class and bad decision making at crucial times.


[/quote]
I thought that for about five/ten minutes after the goal you were on top, but that was the only time in the game, from memory Galway barely won a breaking ball outside of this period - I think the Meehan did brilliantly with the amount of possession he got, but i thought midfield, half forward and half back lines all need serious revamping - admittedly there are a few young lads in there who will come on, but overall there were too many passengers there yesterday.
I don't want to be too harsh as it was a very enjoyable game, but given the injuries to players like Armstrong and Joyce it was probably the wrong option to try and take Kerry on playing football - in saying that Kerry were extremely impressive yesterday and it probably wouldn't have mattered how you played them.

Quote
Yes it was a consolation, I would not go to watch Galway live if they returned to the tactics used under Peter Forde. We should stick to what we know best. As I posted on the Galway match thread I could not believe the negativity and cynicism Armagh engaged in yesterday, constant messing off the ball. Id be disgusted if Galway ever had to resort to that to win football matches.

Really? You're more concerned about how neutrals view you than winning?  That's the talk of losers.

Zulu

Quote
That's nonsense POG, of course tactics play a part for example Fermanghs 'tactics' might allow them beat a team like Derry but they wouldn't help them beat Kerry. IMO Dublin will beat Tyrone next week regardless of the tactics Tyrone deploy because Dublin are the better team, likewise Kerry would have beaten Galway even if Galway played everybody behind the ball except Micheal Meehan because Kerry are the better team. Anyway Galway deployed 'positive tactics' that could have won the game for them if they had taken their goal chances and I'd like to see more counties employ these tactics rather than WM or Fermanaghs tactics.

Right I agree with most of that but surely you wouldnt expect fermanagh, for example, to adapt a system of play and tactics to suit the players they have, use it to beat certain teams but when they come up against one of the bigger teams and where they're major underdogs to say "you know what f**k it, lets not play our game, lets play a system the neurtasl enjoy because we're going to lose anyway".  Doesnt make any sense. 

QuoteI thought that for about five/ten minutes after the goal you were on top, but that was the only time in the game, from memory Galway barely won a breaking ball outside of this period - I think the Meehan did brilliantly with the amount of possession he got, but i thought midfield, half forward and half back lines all need serious revamping - admittedly there are a few young lads in there who will come on, but overall there were too many passengers there yesterday.
I don't want to be too harsh as it was a very enjoyable game, but given the injuries to players like Armstrong and Joyce it was probably the wrong option to try and take Kerry on playing football - in saying that Kerry were extremely impressive yesterday and it probably wouldn't have mattered how you played them.

Ya true enough we didnt win enough breaks but Clancy was meant to be a big part of that but seemed curtailed with injury. Personally I felt they battled as best they could, I wouldnt fault them for heart or desire but have in the past. For that I blame the previous management who damaged Galway football in this period.

I think you make a valid point as regards Joyce and Armstrong. Now I wouldnt change our style because of that but when you see an injured Matt Clancy being reintroduced you know your bench is slack. Armstrong and Joyce would have given us the impetus to push on and win the game.

Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

Quote from: Bogball XV on August 10, 2008, 03:14:15 PM

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:02:07 PM

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

Dont agree with that at all we showed great hunger, heart and desire yesterday Bogball, if you made these comments the last year fair enough but yesterday we were undone by Kerry's class and bad decision making at crucial times.

I thought that for about five/ten minutes after the goal you were on top, but that was the only time in the game, from memory Galway barely won a breaking ball outside of this period - I think the Meehan did brilliantly with the amount of possession he got, but i thought midfield, half forward and half back lines all need serious revamping - admittedly there are a few young lads in there who will come on, but overall there were too many passengers there yesterday.
I don't want to be too harsh as it was a very enjoyable game, but given the injuries to players like Armstrong and Joyce it was probably the wrong option to try and take Kerry on playing football - in saying that Kerry were extremely impressive yesterday and it probably wouldn't have mattered how you played them.
[/quote]

We had a problem at midfield alright but we knew that going into the game. Joe Bergin came on but probably wasn't even fit enough to run around the middle for 20 minutes so he was sent up front and in fairness to him plundered 1-1. We probably should have got a couple more scores from the ball he won up there to be honest. Had we been able to win even 10-15% more possession around the middle it may well have been enough for us to win the game.

I think a big problem was that due to the injuries we were really limited to the changes we could make. The subs Kerry put on made a big difference for them. If we could have put on a Nicky Joyce and a Sean Armstrong to run at Kerry when they were wobbling we might have been in business but we just didn't have them. We had to send on a half fit Joe Bergin and had to reintroduce Mattie Clancy who himself had gone off injured at half-time. Hopefully with a few adjustments and maybe one or two new players next year we might go a step further.

QuoteReally? You're more concerned about how neutrals view you than winning?  That's the talk of losers.

Call it what you like but I can honestly say I would be ashamed and embarrassed to win an All-Ireland using defensive and cynical tactics like I witnessed with Armagh yesterday. Maybe because I am used of Galways tradition but give me players like Meehan, Joyce and Donnellan anyday ahead of dire negativity thay may lead to success.

Does one not see the bigger issue here anyway. How do counties like Armagh expect to unearth serious, genuine talent in their respective counties when a negative mindset is ingrained in that counties mindset? Where will the next Clarke or McDonnell come from? The likes of Galway and Kerry will always produce classy flair players and will be successful in the longrun IMO

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:24:54 PM
Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

Well people seemed to enjoy the game so what can you do. The Ulster final and the replay were "intense" I guess but I didn't particularly enjoy watching either of them. Different strokes for different folks.

the point being pog as the stats prove they lose anyway regardless of system. Fermanagh for instance regardless of tactics or system would never beat Kerry at the moment so the point in the thread is that inferior teams can get to a certain level playing a defensive system but they will never win any trophies with it. galway have a better chance sticking to their instincts thats why they have won a good number of all-irelands at all grades of football , a lot of people forget that. Galway have always been a terrific footballing county and have produced some great players over the years.People fromcertain counties tend to forget that. maybe they should look at the roll of honour some day.

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:21:18 PM

QuoteI thought that for about five/ten minutes after the goal you were on top, but that was the only time in the game, from memory Galway barely won a breaking ball outside of this period - I think the Meehan did brilliantly with the amount of possession he got, but i thought midfield, half forward and half back lines all need serious revamping - admittedly there are a few young lads in there who will come on, but overall there were too many passengers there yesterday.
I don't want to be too harsh as it was a very enjoyable game, but given the injuries to players like Armstrong and Joyce it was probably the wrong option to try and take Kerry on playing football - in saying that Kerry were extremely impressive yesterday and it probably wouldn't have mattered how you played them.

Ya true enough we didnt win enough breaks but Clancy was meant to be a big part of that but seemed curtailed with injury. Personally I felt they battled as best they could, I wouldnt fault them for heart or desire but have in the past. For that I blame the previous management who damaged Galway football in this period.

I think you make a valid point as regards Joyce and Armstrong. Now I wouldnt change our style because of that but when you see an injured Matt Clancy being reintroduced you know your bench is slack. Armstrong and Joyce would have given us the impetus to push on and win the game.

you're right, i shouldn't have said a lack of hunger really, they did battle as well as they could, but just didn't have enough at the end.

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:24:54 PM
Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

Yes but arguably you miss the point. This is the constant argument that is trotted out to undermine a high scoring free flowing game. Of course defenders suffer when the game is played without tactics. Gaelic football is an attacking game. When teams go man to man the attacker dictates play and therefore defenders struggle. Kerry and Galway could easily resort to blanket defence, they chose not to. How good are Tyrone's or Armagh's defence man for man?? We will never know.

POG I have no problem with WM and Fermanagh employing defensive tactics to win as many championship games as possible, though IMO Fermanagh have the personel to win playing more positively. The point I was making is that it isn't naive to play positive attack football, in fact it is the best way to play football and I think counties like Tyrone (especially), Armagh, Derry, Meath, Donegal, Mayo, Cork and a few more have the players to go toe to toe with anyone and be as successful as they would if they played defensive football.

QuoteEveryone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

That just isn't true on two counts, first there was plenty of pressure on the kickers just not 3 or 4 players surrounding them, secondly we have seen plenty of IC forwards kick wide after wide under no pressure so it isn't that easy.

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:35:19 PM

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:24:54 PM
Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

Yes but arguably you miss the point. This is the constant argument that is trotted out to undermine a high scoring free flowing game. Of course defenders suffer when the game is played without tactics. Gaelic football is an attacking game. When teams go man to man the attacker dictates play and therefore defenders struggle. Kerry and Galway could easily resort to blanket defence, they chose not to. How good are Tyrone's or Armagh's defence man for man?? We will never know.

Maybe that is the reason Galway contributed to a "wonderful spectacle" or "a throw back game" as Mr O'Rourke calls it. Im certainly not knocking it - more power to them. Maybe if they viewed it as a possession game, and still had the attackers to score (e.g. Tyrone 03, 05) they might have had a shot at winning the game!
Personally - Id want my team going out to win, not kick lovely points and lose. There is a balance - and people are right that there are teams who cannot find that balance. Tyrone showed in the AI winning seasons that it can be done. Intensity and classy footballing.

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 03:36:30 PM

That just isn't true on two counts, first there was plenty of pressure on the kickers just not 3 or 4 players surrounding them, secondly we have seen plenty of IC forwards kick wide after wide under no pressure so it isn't that easy.

We are talking galway and kerry here, two teams with great scoring forwards. Cant be compared to fermanagh/kildare.

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:45:01 PM

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:35:19 PM

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:24:54 PM
Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

Yes but arguably you miss the point. This is the constant argument that is trotted out to undermine a high scoring free flowing game. Of course defenders suffer when the game is played without tactics. Gaelic football is an attacking game. When teams go man to man the attacker dictates play and therefore defenders struggle. Kerry and Galway could easily resort to blanket defence, they chose not to. How good are Tyrone's or Armagh's defence man for man?? We will never know.

Maybe that is the reason Galway contributed to a "wonderful spectacle" or "a throw back game" as Mr O'Rourke calls it. Im certainly not knocking it - more power to them. Maybe if they viewed it as a possession game, and still had the attackers to score (e.g. Tyrone 03, 05) they might have had a shot at winning the game!
Personally - Id want my team going out to win, not kick lovely points and lose. There is a balance - and people are right that there are teams who cannot find that balance. Tyrone showed in the AI winning seasons that it can be done. Intensity and classy footballing.

Of course but I personally would hate to sacrafice an attacking game. It was obviously an excellent Tyrone team withs lots of ability however their style wouldnt be for me. I didnt particularly enjoy watching them but would take it over Armagh any day.

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Dubs you're beginning to sound like a broken record on this issue. Before you go, which you usually do when we get down to te fine detail of this discussion, please tell me what type of defensive formation Wexford employed yesterday?

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:53:10 PM

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:45:01 PM

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:35:19 PM

Quote from: Puckoon on August 10, 2008, 03:24:54 PM
Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

Yes but arguably you miss the point. This is the constant argument that is trotted out to undermine a high scoring free flowing game. Of course defenders suffer when the game is played without tactics. Gaelic football is an attacking game. When teams go man to man the attacker dictates play and therefore defenders struggle. Kerry and Galway could easily resort to blanket defence, they chose not to. How good are Tyrone's or Armagh's defence man for man?? We will never know.

Maybe that is the reason Galway contributed to a "wonderful spectacle" or "a throw back game" as Mr O'Rourke calls it. Im certainly not knocking it - more power to them. Maybe if they viewed it as a possession game, and still had the attackers to score (e.g. Tyrone 03, 05) they might have had a shot at winning the game!
Personally - Id want my team going out to win, not kick lovely points and lose. There is a balance - and people are right that there are teams who cannot find that balance. Tyrone showed in the AI winning seasons that it can be done. Intensity and classy footballing.

Of course but I personally would hate to sacrafice an attacking game. It was obviously an excellent Tyrone team withs lots of ability however their style wouldnt be for me. I didnt particularly enjoy watching them but would take it over Armagh any day.

Understandable. but I dont think playing a defensive game when not in posession means you cant attack with the kitchen sink when you have possession.They arent mutually exclusive. If you were in the semi final would you care of the score had have been 2-1?

In Tyrone's two All-Ireland wins where apparantly they played "puke football" they scored the following:

2003 - 3-134 in 8 games

2005 - 11-142 in 10 games

People talk shit about Tyrone being this ultra negative and defensive team but you dont do scoring like that without a playing exciting, attacking football!!

By the way have we found out where the original poster is from yet? Wish he would fcuk off to the Hoganstand.

my sentiments exactly. IMHO the only game under mickey hartes reign where tyrone were a wee bit defensive was against kerry in 2003.

Tyrone boi it is simply jealousy lad. I am from Armagh and i can say that when Tyrone won their All Irelands they had the best attacking forwards in Ireland and the defenders were doing the defending. It seems when defenders defend they get almost chastised for it, that is why they are there :-\. It is a well known fact that when teams are being successful the others teams get jealous.If they can't beat a team on the field then they will try and beat them with the media or think up excuses, particularly the southern media. There exists a "holier than thou attitude". Where we have certain southern teams thinking no one else has a right to win an All Ireland then when the apple cart is upset and someone else wins and all Ireland then it "couldn't have been football that beat them" :o :-\ :-\ It had to be some other tactic. The only purpose of which is to ruin the game of gaelic. A complete load of shite. Then when it backfires as it did yesterday on Armagh the same guys turn into a group known as the "i told you so gang"

These guys need to catch on to themselves. In all sports teams do all they can to win. Teams employ different tactics to win different games this is not a negative feature it is simply another aspect to the game and certainly doesn't deserve the critism that it gets from certain sections of he GAA and media.

There is a good deal of paranoia amongst the Ulster posters here, I can't speak for anyone else but I really enjoyed both Armagh and Tyrone in their pomp. Both teams brought a ferocious intensity to their games and were wonderful to watch, however they did employ overly defensive tactics at times and Tyrone in particular never needed to do so IMO. And these tactics have been taken on and developed to the nth degree by teams of far less talent which led us to last weekends woeful display of football.  The point some Ulster posters seem to be missing is that attacking football played as 15 V 15 isn't necessarily naive football, yes you'll turn over the ball more and yes you'll probably concede more but if you score more then what's the problem, if as some lads are saying it is a results business.

Quote15 V 15 is completely naive football. You have even highlighted in your comment after this one that yes you will turn the ball over, and yes you will probably concede more. Why would any team be prepared to turn the ball over, or concede more - just because their team have the potential to score more? Thats naivete of the highest order. Why would a team with any desire to win concede an inch to their opposition by handing them possession??? It simply makes no sense.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion Puckoon but the object of championship football is to win games so if you go out with the objective of scoring as much as you can and depending on your defenders to defend are you saying you will always lose? You point out that I conceded you will probably concede more playing 15 V 15 but if you get bodies behind the ball you surely appreciate that you'll probably score less so I could argue that that is a foolish tactic as you are limiting your scoring potential in the hope of conceding less.

Anyway all teams funnel players back now (if for no other reason because defenders attack more) but I always believed you should keep your best scoring forwards close to the goal and get the ball into them as fast and often as possible. And if you have a large number of scoring forwards you should have most of them (if not all) on the pitch. Anyway this year could be the third year in a row that Ulster haven't a team in the semis and teams like WM, Fermanagh, Limerick, Kildare have all fallen by the wayside. While Kerry, Wexford and Cork are in the semi finals, all teams who play fast and often 50/50 ball into their forwards.

So you think if attackers lose the ball they should stand back and let the opposition carry the ball out of defence?

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 07:20:50 PM

Quote15 V 15 is completely naive football. You have even highlighted in your comment after this one that yes you will turn the ball over, and yes you will probably concede more. Why would any team be prepared to turn the ball over, or concede more - just because their team have the potential to score more? Thats naivete of the highest order. Why would a team with any desire to win concede an inch to their opposition by handing them possession??? It simply makes no sense.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion Puckoon but the object of championship football is to win games so if you go out with the objective of scoring as much as you can and depending on your defenders to defend are you saying you will always lose? You point out that I conceded you will probably concede more playing 15 V 15 but if you get bodies behind the ball you surely appreciate that you'll probably score less so I could argue that that is a foolish tactic as you are limiting your scoring potential in the hope of conceding less.

Anyway all teams funnel players back now (if for no other reason because defenders attack more) but I always believed you should keep your best scoring forwards close to the goal and get the ball into them as fast and often as possible. And if you have a large number of scoring forwards you should have most of them (if not all) on the pitch. Anyway this year could be the third year in a row that Ulster haven't a team in the semis and teams like WM, Fermanagh, Limerick, Kildare have all fallen by the wayside. While Kerry, Wexford and Cork are in the semi finals, all teams who play fast and often 50/50 ball into their forwards.

Indeed Zulu, its a fair point, and a double edged sword.

With men behind the ball, you have the ability to break at speed - and as Kerry did yesterday, moving in every direction from defence once they gained possession. You also have an abundance of space, for a 1, 2, or 3 man full forward line to take their opponents to the cleaners when you catch them on the break.
The problem with this "blanket defence" is that while it has been mimicked by many teams, very few have done so with the success that Tyrone and Armagh (and to an extent even Kerry) due to the limitations of players in attack.

Many teams have now tried the big full foward also, in copying Kerry and it hasnt worked either. Its amazing how little complaining there is about aimless 50-50 or 40-60 ball into the fullforward line. Id rather watch a team defending en masse and bursting forward than long balls into a full forward where the defence continually mops up. Thats the key however, the possession team needs to attack at speed. No doubt that a team defending like that and not playing good attacking football when in possession is terrible to watch.

Anyways, as another poster said horses for courses and opinion entitlement shall prevail.

Lads i really don't know why you feel the need to justify the style of play adopted by Armagh and Tyrone. The fact that they were far superior in defense than any other team over the last 8 or 9 yearsis clear to be seen, Particularly Armagh. However having watched many Armagh Tyrone games i can tell you it was always Tyrones attacking flare that I feared.I never once said that Armagh wouldn't beat Tyrone because they ad a cracker defense. As an attacking Unit particularly in 2003 and 2005 Tyrone were simply ruthless and in some cases unmarkable. This only served to irritate the southerners who couldn't admit that an Ulster team was actually better at something that the aristocrats of  Kerry or Dublin were. What has happened now is simple. All the oher teams have adopted te tactic Armagh and Tyrone were employing. All teams are now filtering players back because defenders are now attackes aswell . Corner backs now are big time involved in setting up attacks, a prime example would be mc menamin. So there is a need for Forwards to track back and there isn't  a better feeling as a cornerback when you look up and see you're corner forward tackling like his life depended on it and turning over the ball. Football has evolved the sooner we realise that it is a game of diversity and stop criticising it the better. Kerry this year are a solid unit, but watch them when the loose a ball in the forward line they swamp the opposition as any good forward would do they also filter back. Give credit were credit is due and quit buying into the media propaganda spouted by Spillane and born out of jealousy.

Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

I would think we would all agree and second that Zulu

Here Here






























So long as Tyrone beat dublin. :D

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 11:44:49 PM
Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

So this week its because teams are being too defensive thats destroying the game. Last week we were told that it was the decline in kick passing, Spillane even had a article along these lines. Last night on the Sunday Game they highlighted the Kerry goal as how football should be played. The move started in the kerry back line and when the ball ended in the net there was not one foot pass. In the last minute of the Cork v Kildare game Cork must have had every player in the square defending their lead no mention of them being negative. Had it been a Northern team they would have been accused of being cynical.         

Quote from: reddgnhand on August 11, 2008, 01:26:25 PM

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 11:44:49 PM
Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

So this week its because teams are being too defensive thats destroying the game. Last week we were told that it was the decline in kick passing, Spillane even had a article along these lines. Last night on the Sunday Game they highlighted the Kerry goal as how football should be played. The move started in the kerry back line and when the ball ended in the net there was not one foot pass. In the last minute of the Cork v Kildare game Cork must have had every player in the square defending their lead no mention of them being negative. Had it been a Northern team they would have been accused of being cynical.         

No they wouldn't but I will accuse you of misplaced paranoia.

Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2008, 01:33:31 PM

Quote from: reddgnhand on August 11, 2008, 01:26:25 PM

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 11:44:49 PM
Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

So this week its because teams are being too defensive thats destroying the game. Last week we were told that it was the decline in kick passing, Spillane even had a article along these lines. Last night on the Sunday Game they highlighted the Kerry goal as how football should be played. The move started in the kerry back line and when the ball ended in the net there was not one foot pass. In the last minute of the Cork v Kildare game Cork must have had every player in the square defending their lead no mention of them being negative. Had it been a Northern team they would have been accused of being cynical.         

No they wouldn't but I will accuse you of misplaced paranoia.

So Tyrone play defensive against Mayo in the final minutes = nasty football
Cork play defensive against Kildare in the final minutes = Playing Clever

Just making sure I have this right here since it was stated earlier that Tyrone played ugly at the end of the Mayo game...

Quote from: Zulu on August 11, 2008, 01:33:31 PM

Quote from: reddgnhand on August 11, 2008, 01:26:25 PM

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 11:44:49 PM
Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

So this week its because teams are being too defensive thats destroying the game. Last week we were told that it was the decline in kick passing, Spillane even had a article along these lines. Last night on the Sunday Game they highlighted the Kerry goal as how football should be played. The move started in the kerry back line and when the ball ended in the net there was not one foot pass. In the last minute of the Cork v Kildare game Cork must have had every player in the square defending their lead no mention of them being negative. Had it been a Northern team they would have been accused of being cynical.         

No they wouldn't but I will accuse you of misplaced paranoia.

Was Cork negative and too defensive in the last minutes of yesterdays game ? Is short hand passing bad for the game?

Quote from: Doohicky on August 11, 2008, 01:44:18 PM
Just making sure I have this right here since it was stated earlier that Tyrone played ugly at the end of the Mayo game...

I dont think he meant the style of play as in defensive or attacking. I think he meant "ugly" in McMenamin lying on the ball at the side of the pitch when Mayo were trying to take a quick kick, or when he had a free in the last minute and stopped to tie his lace.

I could be wrong, but thats the sort of carry on I imagine he means. Nothing to do with defensive. More so deliberate time wasting.

Quote from: belleaqua on August 10, 2008, 03:11:16 PM

QuoteYou're praising Galway for going "toe to toe" wiht Kerry yesterday - do you think it's much consolation to Galway today that it was a good game for the neurtral?

Yes it was a consolation, I would not go to watch Galway live if they returned to the tactics used under Peter Forde. We should stick to what we know best. As I posted on the Galway match thread I could not believe the negativity and cynicism Armagh engaged in yesterday, constant messing off the ball. Id be disgusted if Galway ever had to resort to that to win football matches.

As for the statement that Armagh re-introduced the direct game in Gaelic football ::), it is rightly pointed out that Galway in 1998 did so. Not only that but did so by playing 6 forwards not two up front on their own.

What a pile of sanctimonious claptrap!!! I watched Padraig Joyce hitting Dara O'Se after the ball had gone on a few occasions, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!! EVERY team has cynical players, the most cynical tackle in the first match was the tackle on Aaron Kernan at the end of the first half.  Brian Mallon was hauled down whilst running through for a score in the second half.  Mattie Forde was diving (cynical play!). What colour is the sky in your world?????????? ::) ::)
On the other theme of being too defensive then we have to hold our hands up. Very disappointing as earlier in the year I thought Peter McDonnell had us moving away from our overly defensive play which was the norm in the latter Kernan years. But as the pressure came on in the championship we reverted to type, very disappointing.

Quote from: bigpaul on August 10, 2008, 04:15:25 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Dubs you're beginning to sound like a broken record on this issue. Before you go, which you usually do when we get down to te fine detail of this discussion, please tell me what type of defensive formation Wexford employed yesterday?

Would that have been leaving Malone as the spare man in defence when Armagh brought O'Rourke back into defence leaving Wexford with a spare man in defence for most of the game...which is why they won all the kickouts going...

QuoteWhat a pile of sanctimonious claptrap!!! I watched Padraig Joyce hitting Dara O'Se after the ball had gone on a few occasions, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!!

Where hid he hit him?? What are ya talking about. Are you seriously attempting to compare Galway's tactics to Armagh's on the basis of Joyce apparently hitting Dara O'Se?? Armagh's tactics on Saturday were consistently cynical and negative so dont be glossing over it with bullshit talk like that.

Quote from: belleaqua on August 11, 2008, 06:36:41 PM

QuoteWhat a pile of sanctimonious claptrap!!! I watched Padraig Joyce hitting Dara O'Se after the ball had gone on a few occasions, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!!

Where hid he hit him?? What are ya talking about. Are you seriously attempting to compare Galway's tactics to Armagh's on the basis of Joyce apparently hitting Dara O'Se?? Armagh's tactics on Saturday were consistently cynical and negative so dont be glossing over it with bullshit talk like that.

Galway's 'tactics' yesterday were through-other, I'm just watching it again here and the tackling in the 2nd half was a lot tighter, but then after the goal Galway seemed to just forget to track runners at times, O' Mahony and the other Kerry HB's won the game coming through in the last 15, at times with no one near them. Galway hassled the Kerry FB back line well, but if they got past that they usually had acres of room.

Credit to both teams for the scoring in the game, especially given the conditions. Also credit to Croke pitch, amazing  a game could even be finished in that rain.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 11, 2008, 01:48:03 PM

Quote from: Doohicky on August 11, 2008, 01:44:18 PM
Just making sure I have this right here since it was stated earlier that Tyrone played ugly at the end of the Mayo game...

I dont think he meant the style of play as in defensive or attacking. I think he meant "ugly" in McMenamin lying on the ball at the side of the pitch when Mayo were trying to take a quick kick, or when he had a free in the last minute and stopped to tie his lace.

I could be wrong, but thats the sort of carry on I imagine he means. Nothing to do with defensive. More so deliberate time wasting.
----------------
Yep but when Kerry did similar things, though admittedly not so obvious, the co-commentator was having a chuckle and calling it 'old soldier stuff, sure they know what they're doing there.'

Quote from: belleaqua on August 11, 2008, 06:36:41 PM

QuoteWhat a pile of sanctimonious claptrap!!! I watched Padraig Joyce hitting Dara O'Se after the ball had gone on a few occasions, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!!

Where hid he hit him?? What are ya talking about. Are you seriously attempting to compare Galway's tactics to Armagh's on the basis of Joyce apparently hitting Dara O'Se?? Armagh's tactics on Saturday were consistently cynical and negative so dont be glossing over it with bullshit talk like that.

He stopped him running on after he passed the ball on at least three occasions. Was he not cited by posters on a thread last week as being a cynical player? I'm not saying some players on the Armagh team were not cynical. You're the one that said that you would be disgusted if Galway resorted to negative tactics to win a match. You're the man talking bullshit not me!!

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 11, 2008, 05:09:35 PM

Quote from: bigpaul on August 10, 2008, 04:15:25 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Dubs you're beginning to sound like a broken record on this issue. Before you go, which you usually do when we get down to te fine detail of this discussion, please tell me what type of defensive formation Wexford employed yesterday?

Would that have been leaving Malone as the spare man in defence when Armagh brought O'Rourke back into defence leaving Wexford with a spare man in defence for most of the game...which is why they won all the kickouts going...

Malone stayed back because Wexford saw that their 'backs couldn't cope'(your words)  in the Leinster final, their defensive fomation was changed for the Down game and retained for Saturday. Interesting how you can give  Armagh the blame for decisions taken when they weren't even playing.

Quote from: Zulu on August 10, 2008, 06:23:34 PM
There is a good deal of paranoia amongst the Ulster posters here, I can't speak for anyone else but I really enjoyed both Armagh and Tyrone in their pomp. Both teams brought a ferocious intensity to their games and were wonderful to watch, however they did employ overly defensive tactics at times and Tyrone in particular never needed to do so IMO. And these tactics have been taken on and developed to the nth degree by teams of far less talent which led us to last weekends woeful display of football. 

Agreed.


Pre- noughties,  'blanket defence' was considered an ugly, alien tactic.

Imho, credit to Armagh and Tyrone for being innovative at the time and bringing defending beyond previously taboo levels and achieving success with it.

But the way things are developing since, with inferior teams copying the tactic to the detriment of basic skills, the game is being slowly strangled and diminished as a spectacle.

It's time for adherents to move on and re-focus on the skills, for the sake of the future appeal of gaelic imho.

Who could take a repeat of the Kildare Fermanagh championship match ever again? County footballers kicking ten or eleven wides before they finally score ... it really should be seen as a nadir for slavishly adapting that type of game.

Certainly, strike a balance, ala Wexford, but not being proficient in basics like kick passing or kicking points from 30 \ 40 metres out is surely the pits for any county footballer worth his salt.


The Eugene McGee article below from 2002 comments on the reasonably uncommon tactic at the time of playing 'blanket defence'. To think it was thought of as an admission of inferiority  ... 


Galway Prove That You Can't Contain True Class

By Eugene McGee
Monday May 20 2002

THE ROSCOMMON mentors took an unusually brave decision prior to yesterday's Connacht Championship clash with Galway at Hyde Park, which ended in a 3-12 to 1-8 victory for the Tribesmen.

The selectors opted to play only four players in their own attack and recycle two forwards into defenders with the aim of using this eight-man defence to crowd out the usually deadly Galway forwards.

Playing extra defenders in such a blatant manner is frowned upon in the GAA on the basis that it concedes the psychological advantage to your opponents, an argument which has little substance in reality.

When one remembers that in their last competitive game five weeks ago, Roscommon conceded five goals and 13 points to an average Cavan team in the National League semi-final, one could hardly blame John Tobin and his selectors for taking drastic action to shore up the backline as they set out to curb the best forward-line in football.

In addition to recycling John Hanley and Gary Cox as defenders, they had already brought in a new full-back in Alan Nolan and corner-back Raymond Cox.

And with 35 minutes of the first half gone, their tactics had certainly worked because Galway had just five points on the board. Of those five scores, only one came from play, scored by Joe Bergin after a scandalous free was given against Alan Nolan for allegedly charging with the ball.

But in the remaining two minutes of the first half, things took a dramatic turn for the worse for Roscommon.

Derek Savage got his first score of the day when chipping over a point and then piece of Michael Donnellan magic around midfield set up an incisive Galway attack straight through the middle, which ended with Padraic Joyce being pulled down by a desperate Roscommon 'keeper, Derek Thompson, and Savage burying the penalty into the right corner.

These were the fatal blows which decided the outcome of this game there and then, even if the second half was still to come.

The simple fact was that these scores proved that containing Galway, as Roscommon had done so brilliantly for the first 35 minutes, is meaningless in the context of actually BEATING this star-studded Galway side.
- Eugene McGee

Quote from: bigpaul on August 11, 2008, 08:49:12 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 11, 2008, 05:09:35 PM

Quote from: bigpaul on August 10, 2008, 04:15:25 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Dubs you're beginning to sound like a broken record on this issue. Before you go, which you usually do when we get down to te fine detail of this discussion, please tell me what type of defensive formation Wexford employed yesterday?

Would that have been leaving Malone as the spare man in defence when Armagh brought O'Rourke back into defence leaving Wexford with a spare man in defence for most of the game...which is why they won all the kickouts going...

Malone stayed back because Wexford saw that their 'backs couldn't cope'(your words)  in the Leinster final, their defensive fomation was changed for the Down game and retained for Saturday. Interesting how you can give  Armagh the blame for decisions taken when they weren't even playing.

BigPaul - The big difference for the Down game and the Armagh game to teh Leinster final was that Dublin played with 3 men in the full forward line which meant that Malone had to pick someone up whereas both Armagh and Down played a 2 man full forward line with a sweeper in their own defence meaning that Malone was left as a free man

From an Armagh point of view i'd be worried that the emphasis on defensive tactics might filter its way down to underage and development squad level, to the detriment of developing the basic skills. I don't know enough about what goes in the underage squads, but the onus has always got to be on skills rather than tactics - Kerry consistently win all-irelands not because of tactics but because they can do the basics of gaelic football very well (catch the ball, move it at speed accurately and take scores). Armagh have become more defensive the past 3-4 years, with our half forwards sitting deeper and not getting forward enough to support the front 2 men. Whether it's a deliberate tactic or not, we don't have the same quality of forward player we used to. Tactics can take a team so far, e.g provincial level but all-irelands require real quality.  It doesn't take a genius to work out why we haven't won another all-ireland. The AI was won in 2002 with 5 top quality scoring forwards - all of them all-star material and on top of their game.   Injuries and lack of form in certain players cost us after that. I've no doubt that had we those players at the same level for a few years after that, more AIs would have been bagged.  The Tyrone team of 03 and 05 had a range of top class forwards and they had players all over the pitch who could weigh in with scores. Kerry always seem to have 5-6 scoring forwards on the pitch with another couple of options to spring from the bench.  I wouldn't slate certain teams for being overly defensive and tactical, you do what you have to do with the playing resources you have. But if a certain amount of quality is there throughout the team, better to be more positive and at least give your own supporters something to get behind.

Just watched the hurling analysis on the Sunday Game, I see that when Pat asked if blanket defence was being employed the expert said it was not, 'they were merely saturating the area'.  :D

Suppose we couldn't have the pure game sullied with negative terms.

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 11, 2008, 10:48:44 PM

Quote from: bigpaul on August 11, 2008, 08:49:12 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 11, 2008, 05:09:35 PM

Quote from: bigpaul on August 10, 2008, 04:15:25 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

Dubs you're beginning to sound like a broken record on this issue. Before you go, which you usually do when we get down to te fine detail of this discussion, please tell me what type of defensive formation Wexford employed yesterday?

Would that have been leaving Malone as the spare man in defence when Armagh brought O'Rourke back into defence leaving Wexford with a spare man in defence for most of the game...which is why they won all the kickouts going...

Malone stayed back because Wexford saw that their 'backs couldn't cope'(your words)  in the Leinster final, their defensive fomation was changed for the Down game and retained for Saturday. Interesting how you can give  Armagh the blame for decisions taken when they weren't even playing.

BigPaul - The big difference for the Down game and the Armagh game to teh Leinster final was that Dublin played with 3 men in the full forward line which meant that Malone had to pick someone up whereas both Armagh and Down played a 2 man full forward line with a sweeper in their own defence meaning that Malone was left as a free man

Wexford didn't wait for Down to withdraw a forward, one of their defenders didn't pick up a man before the throw-in but in instead took up a position in front of Benny Coulter, opting to mark space instead of an attacker.

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 09:53:33 AM
yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

wexford played a great last ten minutes to beat one of the ugliest,over hyped,anti-football counties of the 21st century that will not be missed by true gaels.they have the spirit of the gaa in them that fills with hope and joy to underdogs.


Are we not true gaels in Armagh?
In what sense are we ugly? I can only assume you refer to the type of football we play, rather than our appearance.
Over hyped?By whom. Certainly not those biased f**kers at RTE. Their championship preview before the game had Micko, John O' Mahoney and two of the Fermanagh players on it.We got maybe 45 seconds out of 30 mins.
Anti-football?Please explain this as I am at a loss.

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 10, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
Arthur - Puke football to me is the emphasis on defending over attacking, picking forwards for their defensive work, crowding back 12/13 players inside your 45 because your backs can't cope without the added protection, picking 1/2 scoring forwards only, a total inability to kick scores because the players are picked for running ability rather than footballing ability, 3rd man tacklling, off the ball fouling, cynical dragging of jerseys everywhere to slow down attacks.....

So your basically talking about Armagh and Monaghan then.   :o :o :o ;) ;)

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 10, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
I think its a load of aul bollix when people go on about the right and wrong way to play football,At the end of the day football same as any sport is about winning..
Right some of the games that are played lets say negatively are not great as a spectacle for the neutral but i could safely say every single poster on this board would not give a flying f**k what way their respective county played if it meant they won the All IrelandOnly the begrudgers would  remember what style of play they used to win,The winning team and fans wouldn't give a toss and if that means playing "puke" ::) football to win then so be it

Exactly i agree 100% 

Im A derry man and Derry usually try to play football and attack but what have we won lately (nobody remembers league winners) If derry were all defensive and negative like Armagh and Monaghan and Actually had a game plan, but we were winning things I wouldnt give a sh*t.

Quote from: billy the kid on August 14, 2008, 04:02:14 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 10, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
I think its a load of aul bollix when people go on about the right and wrong way to play football,At the end of the day football same as any sport is about winning..
Right some of the games that are played lets say negatively are not great as a spectacle for the neutral but i could safely say every single poster on this board would not give a flying f**k what way their respective county played if it meant they won the All IrelandOnly the begrudgers would  remember what style of play they used to win,The winning team and fans wouldn't give a toss and if that means playing "puke" ::) football to win then so be it

Exactly i agree 100% 

Im A derry man and Derry usually try to play football and attack but what have we won lately (nobody remembers league winners) If derry were all defensive and negative like Armagh and Monaghan and Actually had a game plan, but we were winning things I wouldnt give a sh*t.

finally someones talking sense

RE.title

IT CERTAINLY IS

Was a great day for football.
Arma just need look around them especially at Tyrone today to learn that the negative game is dead. That is the future, join it.

Quote from: smcafee on August 10, 2008, 09:53:33 AM
yesterday in croke park was a great day for football.

You were almost correct (just one week out). Rather quiet now, aren't we?!