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Pool A
England, South Africa, Samoa, USA, Tonga
Pool B
Australia, Wales, Fiji, Canada, Japan

Pool C
New Zealand, Scotland, Italy, Romania, Portugal

Pool D
France, Ireland, Argentina, Georgia, Namibia


less than two weeks until it starts.

Have to say that i'm amazed at the IRFU handing EOS a contract extension at this time. in fairness i reckon him a decent coach but if ireland don't make they world cup quarter finals it represents abject failure.

I would have thought this was the perfect time for EOS to leave after the world cup! He's been there a while now and I think that someone with new ideas and a new take on things should get a full four year tilt at the next world cup.

Quote from: Uladh on August 29, 2007, 12:04:56 PM

Have to say that i'm amazed at the IRFU handing EOS a contract extension at this time. in fairness i reckon him a decent coach but if ireland don't make they world cup quarter finals it represents abject failure.

absolute madness

I'm happy to see the EOS stay on with the Ireland team, there is not really someone better that we can bring in so why change. I also like his way of picking a team based on who is playing for their provences, it stops the flow of players to England and France which is a good thing for irish rugby!

I have to agree with Tankie. The conservative part of Eddie can be infuriating, but by and large he has got as good as you could get out the players at his disposal. Not many managers can lay that claim, so it wouldn't be wise to replace him.

surely that is only a judgement that can be made after this world cup?

Yikes lads

i'd have to disagree strongly with that!

O'Sullivan's had 5 or 6 gos at the six nations now and failed to win it - this with Ireland's most talented squad ever. I can't see the point in giving him four more years - I think he should have gone the year Wales won the grand slam.

I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

I think a lot of top coaches would be very keen to take on the Irish job! We have already had a string of bad 6 nations under O'Sullivan.

O'Sullivan may win the world cup with ireland - in which case he would be free to stay on! But extending his contract before the tournament is a bad sporting move.

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 09:18:21 AM
I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

Eddie hasnt given anyone else a run , we are fucked in BOD, ROG , Hase , Strings, Dempsey, Hogan get injured and we are fucked as in we have no clue who will replace them not that we dont have anyone good enough
Thats over 1/3 of the team we have no replacement for what so ever

Quote from: Gnevin on August 30, 2007, 10:48:24 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 09:18:21 AM
I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

Eddie hasnt given anyone else a run , we are fucked in DOB , ROG , Hase , Strings, Dempsey, Hogan get injured and we are fucked as in we have no clue who will replace them not that we dont have anyone good enough
Thats over 1/3 of the team we have no replacement for what so ever

There is plenty of peoplr to replace tho players but they are just not of that standard. A national coach does not really have a choice but to play his top players every time, if not like a club team, its a problem every national team faces!

new zealand, australia and south africa always play their second string in the tri nations. france spread the players around big time.

Did anyone see that Rugby World Cup Preview on TV3 lastnight? i was bored to tears with the pointless information it was throwing out, thank good i will only have to watch 2 games on TV3 :D

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on August 30, 2007, 10:48:24 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 09:18:21 AM
I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

Eddie hasnt given anyone else a run , we are fucked in BOD , ROG , Hase , Strings, Dempsey, Hogan get injured and we are fucked as in we have no clue who will replace them not that we dont have anyone good enough
Thats over 1/3 of the team we have no replacement for what so ever

There is plenty of peoplr to replace tho players but they are just not of that standard. A national coach does not really have a choice but to play his top players every time, if not like a club team, its a problem every national team faces!

We played 3 friendly against Austria, South Africa and  some island and very strong team where named , Tell me this Tankie for the 6 position above tell me who replaces them and when they last played a full or near to it international excluding these warm up games ?

Quote from: Gnevin on August 31, 2007, 08:13:46 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on August 30, 2007, 10:48:24 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 09:18:21 AM
I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

Eddie hasnt given anyone else a run , we are fucked in DOB , ROG , Hase , Strings, Dempsey, Hogan get injured and we are fucked as in we have no clue who will replace them not that we dont have anyone good enough
Thats over 1/3 of the team we have no replacement for what so ever

There is plenty of peoplr to replace tho players but they are just not of that standard. A national coach does not really have a choice but to play his top players every time, if not like a club team, its a problem every national team faces!

We played 3 friendly against Austria, South Africa and  some island and very strong team where named , Tell me this Tankie for the 6 position above tell me who replaces them and when they last played a full or near to it international excluding these warm up games ?

DOB (i take it u mean BOD?) - we have trimble, shaggy or Murphy who could slip in there (off cousre none as good as BOD as he is the best centre in the world)
ROG - Paddy Wallace is our only option
Hase - maybe Best but got no one really but thats because we have so little props in the country
Strings -  Boss has played a good got or Redden
Dempsey - Murphy could easily slip in there but just may not be as good
Hogan  - Murphy, trimble, Carney

Yoiu are getting to caught up in lack of game time, there is nothing we can do about that. it could be agrued that we are punching above our weight in rugby when you look at the playing population so we cant have back up for everyone. Of course i would have liked to see more players play in the 6nations and other test match but we gotta play our best team. also all these players on the fringes got to goto argentina when the number 1 team was left at home.

Quote from: Tankie on August 31, 2007, 09:09:31 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on August 31, 2007, 08:13:46 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on August 30, 2007, 10:48:24 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 09:18:21 AM
I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

Eddie hasnt given anyone else a run , we are fucked in DOB , ROG , Hase , Strings, Dempsey, Hogan get injured and we are fucked as in we have no clue who will replace them not that we dont have anyone good enough
Thats over 1/3 of the team we have no replacement for what so ever

There is plenty of peoplr to replace tho players but they are just not of that standard. A national coach does not really have a choice but to play his top players every time, if not like a club team, its a problem every national team faces!

We played 3 friendly against Austria, South Africa and  some island and very strong team where named , Tell me this Tankie for the 6 position above tell me who replaces them and when they last played a full or near to it international excluding these warm up games ?

DOB (i take it u mean BOD?) - we have trimble, shaggy or Murphy who could slip in there (off cousre none as good as BOD as he is the best centre in the world)
ROG - Paddy Wallace is our only option
Hase - maybe Best but got no one really but thats because we have so little props in the country
Strings -  Boss has played a good got or Redden
Dempsey - Murphy could easily slip in there but just may not be as good
Hogan  - Murphy, trimble, Carney

Yoiu are getting to caught up in lack of game time, there is nothing we can do about that. it could be agrued that we are punching above our weight in rugby when you look at the playing population so we cant have back up for everyone. Of course i would have liked to see more players play in the 6nations and other test match but we gotta play our best team. also all these players on the fringes got to goto argentina when the number 1 team was left at home.

Why play our best of meaningless tests ?

Quote from: Gnevin on August 31, 2007, 09:36:10 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 31, 2007, 09:09:31 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on August 31, 2007, 08:13:46 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on August 30, 2007, 10:48:24 AM

Quote from: Tankie on August 30, 2007, 09:18:21 AM
I see where you are coming from turk but i dont see who else could do the job better. Also you have the problem of transition with a new manager and the Irish rugby team cannot afford to have 1 to 2 bad 6nations due to transition. This is the best irish team we have ever had and most of them only have 4 years left in them so if they aint gonna win under eddie I cant see them winning at all.

Eddie hasnt given anyone else a run , we are fucked in DOB , ROG , Hase , Strings, Dempsey, Hogan get injured and we are fucked as in we have no clue who will replace them not that we dont have anyone good enough
Thats over 1/3 of the team we have no replacement for what so ever

There is plenty of peoplr to replace tho players but they are just not of that standard. A national coach does not really have a choice but to play his top players every time, if not like a club team, its a problem every national team faces!

We played 3 friendly against Austria, South Africa and  some island and very strong team where named , Tell me this Tankie for the 6 position above tell me who replaces them and when they last played a full or near to it international excluding these warm up games ?

DOB (i take it u mean BOD?) - we have trimble, shaggy or Murphy who could slip in there (off cousre none as good as BOD as he is the best centre in the world)
ROG - Paddy Wallace is our only option
Hase - maybe Best but got no one really but thats because we have so little props in the country
Strings -  Boss has played a good got or Redden
Dempsey - Murphy could easily slip in there but just may not be as good
Hogan  - Murphy, trimble, Carney

Yoiu are getting to caught up in lack of game time, there is nothing we can do about that. it could be agrued that we are punching above our weight in rugby when you look at the playing population so we cant have back up for everyone. Of course i would have liked to see more players play in the 6nations and other test match but we gotta play our best team. also all these players on the fringes got to goto argentina when the number 1 team was left at home.

Why play our best of meaningless tests ?

Because you need to keep your players playing as a team. the all blacks created two teams so their main players would continue to get game time. unfortunatly we do not have the numbers to field two teams.

http://www.rugby.ie/news/story/?jp=MHCWOJQLGBKF&s=breaking&d=new (http://www.rugby.ie/news/story/?jp=MHCWOJQLGBKF&s=breaking&d=new)

Interesting one

England have not set a return date for Jonny Wilkinson after the fly-half suffered an ankle ligament sprain during training on Tuesday.
The 28-year-old has already been ruled out of England's World Cup opener against the USA in Lens on Saturday.

Wilkinson will now receive intensive treatment and England say there will be no further update until next Tuesday.

That is the day England name the team for their crunch pool game against South Africa on 14 September.

Interesting World Cup betting:

Australia are generally 12/1, which is a hell of a price for a team that always makes the semi-finals, has the best defensive line in the tournament and has most of its key players just about ready. Boyles are offering money back if your team is beat in the final, so don't even bother with e/w.

For an Irish perspective, Billy Hills have 25/1 for O'Gara to be the leading points scorer and 80/1 Hickie to be the leading try scorer. Both look like great each way value. This isn't the Ireland of old who can't score 40pts+ in a match. I'll expect 80+ pts against Namibia at the weekend and both these odds will collapse after that.

The France v Argie game tomorrow night should be one of the games of the finals

Brian O'Driscoll has recovered on schedule from his fractured sinus and has been given the all clear following a scan on the injury.
Commenting on his selection, The Ireland Captain, who will be leading Ireland for the 39th time in his career, said, "I am delighted to get myself back on the field, especially to lead the team out in the first game in the tournament. The injury has healed very well over the last number of weeks and right on schedule, so myself and the rest of the squad can concentrate on this weekends game. Namibia were difficult opponents in our group in the last world cup, so we don't expect anything different this time round. As a team we will want to put in a performance to allow us to grow in confidence for the rest of our group fixtures".

O'Driscoll will be leading a strong Ireland selection for the game that includes David Wallace, who returns to the team after recovering from a niggling ankle injury that has bothered him for the last number of weeks. He will be joined by Simon Easterby and Denis Leamy in the backrow. In the backs, Andrew Trimble moves from the centre, where he played against Italy, and is named on the right wing in a back three that includes Denis Hickie and Girvan Dempsey.

Ireland Coach Eddie O'Sullivan said, "Brian has recovered well after his injury and was keen to get as many games under his belt from the start of the tournament, so it is a great boost for us to have him back and in the team. After the great reception we received on our arrival at the airport last night, the whole squad realise that we are now finally here in the Rugby World Cup and we have to hit the ground running against Namibia".

"We expect Namibia to throw everything at us and we are under no illusion that it will be a tough day at the office. It is also the first game for them and they will have targeted this for a big performance, so this will not be as easy as many people outside of the Ireland squad expect".

The Ireland team to play Namibia on Sunday, 11th September 2007 in the Stade Chaban Delmas Bordeaux at 20.00hrs (local time) is as follows:


15 – Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College/Leinster)
14 – Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 – Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain
12 – Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 – Denis Hickie (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
10 – Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 – Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
2 – Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
3 – John Hayes (Shannon/Munster)
4 – Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 – Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 – Simon Easterby (Llaneli)
7 – David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 – Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:
16 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
17 – Simon Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
18 – Malcolm O'Kelly (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
19 – Neil Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
20 – Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
21 – Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
22 – Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

Very weak bench

You can get a useful fixture list sorted by date and time here;

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/fixtures/calendar.html

Ireland V nobodies and EOS names his strongest available 15  ??? ::)

I think O Sullivan is doing a great job and hope he remains in the post for years to come but Uladh is right. If the very possible scenario that Argentina advance instead of us, Rugby fans will call for his head leaving The Irish Rugby chiefs with egg on their face.

Don't take that O Gara bet, Carter will be top scorer.

Why are the BBC,UTV and Sky referring to Ireland as one of the 4 Home nations?

France v Argentina predictions anyone?

France by 8

Argentina...Maradona to score a hat trick

forward pass from geoghan! Anyone Agree?? :-\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ghU_XBx-UM

Such a cool ad....

20 seconds gone. No score.

Quote from: SuperSub on September 07, 2007, 07:48:56 PM
Why are the BBC,UTV and Sky referring to Ireland as one of the 4 Home nations?

Well anyone any thoughts?

France 0
Argentina 3

Argentina 3 France 0

Makings of a cracker.

Leinster man scores.

3-3

3-3  - 6 mins

France nervous. Making handling errors.

France 3
Arggies 6

Excellent kicking from the Argie 6-3. France gifting them.

Although the French have been crap so far, the Argies are scaring me.

Arg 9 France 3

Deadly kicking.

my prediction is looking a little iffy

Not looking great for the Irish this, Argies will be flying for the rest of the group. France will get a real slating if they lose and come out all guns blazing against us. France comeback and a narrow win would suit best. Contepomi looks a class act out there

Try Argentina!

Argentina 14 France 3.

Remember Senegal?

Arg 14 France 6 (Skerla 6)

Still think France will settle eventually. Serious nerves.

Arg 17 (Cont 12)  Fra 6

France in melt-down. Argentina completely intimidating the French.

Arg 17 Fra 9 (Skrela 9) 40 mins H-T

Brilliant start to the tourney. France have to come out fighting.

Brilliant Argie tackling. Question is - can they keep this level of intensity going? I doubt it.

Deadly French pack roll.

Argies resist.

Brilliant action

Saying Brilliant a lot.

Great start to the tournament. Get the feeling France with the crowd on their backs will find enough to squeeze through.
Devastating there though for France not to get a score from that last attack

The French crowd, knowing they're up the shitter, start singing La Marseillaise. Classic situation now.

Unbelievable.

Skrela misses gift.

Just thinking, as long as Ireland beat Arg - Ireland can win this group on points/try difference? The Namibia game on Sun could be crucial?

Oohh.... he missed it!!

Las islas malvinas argentina   :D

was away to the shop and very surprized at this score now.

Arg 17 Fra 12 (Skrela 12)

Fra will win this, playing badly.

a draw?

Skrela off injured

pen?

Chance missed there, could be crucial. What a bounce, someone upstairs doesn't like the French! You couldn't blame them, most hateful people I've came across

Jaysus

You should see me knocking them over on the ps

Win 4 points
Draw 2 points
4 or more tries 1 point
Loss by 7 points or less 1 point

Rushed the kick - seen it coming  :D

The French will get one more chance, can they take it?

Crucial.....

Oh maybe not big chance here for the Argies to kill the game

France breathe

Thrilling stuff

These points will be crucial to Ireland. Stick it over.....

Don't believe it

Why did the plonker not kick it dead???
Anyway game over, Ireland are going to be on the end of one hell of a backlash! Hope we can withstand it. Can see France beating us then us beating the Argies and it all coming down to points difference

Commentators are awful on the 3 channels UTV,TV3 and Setanta
Would love to have Geroge Hamilton of RTE commentating on that match tonight

Those last two misses could be crucial. If Argentina had hit one, France would have one point less.

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 09:52:14 PM
Commentators are awful on the 3 channels UTV,TV3 and Setanta
Would love to have Geroge Hamilton of RTE commentating on that match tonight

and Hook and Pope now would be great...

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 09:52:14 PM
Commentators are awful on the 3 channels UTV,TV3 and Setanta
Would love to have Geroge Hamilton of RTE commentating on that match tonight

Geroge Hamilton? Surely you mean Ryle Nugent?

No i mean George Hamilton

That's Ireland goosed.

Pre-qualifying agin San Marion for 2011 looms  :P

Horrendously wooden link man on TV3.

Back to the game, France will improve. Argentina won't. However, this match brings into the group points in terms of wins/draws/losses. Arg had the chance to put France on a serious back foot with those two scorable late penalties.

Setanta Ireland wasn't bad.

Neil Francis, Matt Williams (remind me?) and Kieran Fitzgerald in the studio. They had Iddy on after talking the usual high falutin stuff about 'gain lines' etc.

ONeill your a shrewd man Matt Cooper has a face for radio
Also Felipe Contempomi DELIBERATELY missed the last penalty
Did you see his WINK after he missed

Jaysus, did you just hear your man Cooper call the Argie Pinochet and then throw his eyes up.......

good punditry from TV3. Trevor Brennan pulls no punches says wat he thinks and paul wallace is also very good. was quite impressed actually.

Quote from: Take Your Points on September 07, 2007, 10:49:52 PM

Quote from: tyroneboi on September 07, 2007, 10:43:46 PM
good punditry from TV3. Trevor Brennan pulls no punches says wat he thinks

That's not what the Ulster supporters said! :D :D

just re-read wat i wrote - wud have been quite funny if i have meant it!!!!

Was this such a shock, the Argies are so physical that they can intimidate any team in the tournament including ourselves. We are in trouble, I stated before that if we did not get out of the group I would not be surprised. We are going to be hit hard against Argentina, I feel it will all come down to O Gara again.

Do we have a chane? ???

I a feling that this World Cup would be a massive anti-climax for us. However I've changed my mind after watching that.

It is not often we lose two big games in a row and it is do or die now for the Frogs. I think we will put them out leaving the last game a dogfight between us and the Pumas for the right to play the Scots or the All Blacks.

Quote from: muppet on September 08, 2007, 01:12:39 AM
It is not often we lose two big games in a row and it is do or die now for the Frogs.

wee bit racist there?

Quote from: clarshack on September 08, 2007, 01:17:44 AM

Quote from: muppet on September 08, 2007, 01:12:39 AM
It is not often we lose two big games in a row and it is do or die now for the Frogs.

wee bit racist there?

Good grief  ::)

Mee thinks we will be world champs. No shit 8)

we may go through, we may not, I said a long time ago that I didn't think we would and that expectations back home were ridiculously misplaced. However if we ae fortunate enough to get through and avoid the All Blacks, chances are we'll be playing Italy not Scotland...

Lads TV3 coverage is a disgrace, they aren't showing one match at all today ffs.  I dont have Setanta either, could someone tell me is UTV on the Sky Box, I thought it was but cant find it...

UTV are showing all the games today.....

All Blacks are hammering the italians
14-0
8 mins gone

Quote from: SuperSub on September 07, 2007, 07:48:56 PM
Why are the BBC,UTV and Sky referring to Ireland as one of the 4 Home nations?

Anyone got a answer?

Finally got UTV by adding channels to my Sky Box.

This is going to be a hammering.  38-0 and only 19 minutes gone...

All Blacks 38
Italy         0


After 19mins of the first half..
I don't know much about rugby but do The All Blacks even have a full team out?
Whats the point of having games like this its ridiculous

Why are the BBC,UTV and Sky referring to Ireland as one of the 4 Home nations?

Quote

From Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia
Home Nations (often written as the common noun home nations) is a term used to refer to the four constituent countries of the United Kingdom — England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland — collectively but as separate entities, distinct from the United Kingdom as a state.[citation needed]

The term is also used to refer to England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland (i.e. the whole island: both Northern Ireland and the Republic) together. However, Ireland is generally only included when referring to sporting events, mainly rugby union but sometimes other sports. Its usage is rare (especially outside the UK) and somewhat controversial in some quarters,[citation needed] although it is more common in sporting contexts.

Occasionally the term Home Countries is used.[1]

Bit Controversial........!!

Quote from: MayoMan on September 08, 2007, 01:21:05 PM
Why are the BBC,UTV and Sky referring to Ireland as one of the 4 Home nations?

Quote

From Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia
Home Nations (often written as the common noun home nations) is a term used to refer to the four constituent countries of the United Kingdom — England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland — collectively but as separate entities, distinct from the United Kingdom as a state.[citation needed]

The term is also used to refer to England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland (i.e. the whole island: both Northern Ireland and the Republic) together. However, Ireland is generally only included when referring to sporting events, mainly rugby union but sometimes other sports. Its usage is rare (especially outside the UK) and somewhat controversial in some quarters,[citation needed] although it is more common in sporting contexts.

Occasionally the term Home Countries is used.[1]

Bit Controversial........!!

I don't like it. >:(
...Its like when your talking to a comapny in England and they say to you "over here on the mainland".....

Its a load of bolox alright, in saying that would they not be the first country to defend us in a war against any other country!! Fly in a few tornado's from the main land lads!! And make it snappy....

England struggling against the US of A

NewZealand were amazing.  I love watching that haka

England in major trouble and with the boks 6 days away!

The USA try scorer is obviously an NFL drop out, looks big enough to be on the O-Line. He nailed a few lads with tackles.  Also the England flyhalf was lucky not to be paralysed.

I reckin the USA rugby team would be savage if they poached some of the guys that dont make it in the NFL, they're nearly all fantastic athletes. can you imagine LaDanian Tomlinson out there, Jerome Bettis, Brian Urlacher. of course they wouldnt get paid f**k all to play it tho.

Quote from: thejuice on September 08, 2007, 10:46:27 PM
The USA try scorer is obviously an NFL drop out, looks big enough to be on the O-Line. He nailed a few lads with tackles.  Also the England flyhalf was lucky not to be paralysed.

I reckin the USA rugby team would be savage if they poached some of the guys that dont make it in the NFL, they're nearly all fantastic athletes. can you imagine LaDanian Tomlinson out there, Jerome Bettis, Brian Urlacher. of course they wouldnt get paid f**k all to play it tho.

They need some props and second rowers , their scrum let them down big time . But saying that if their went fully pro their performance would improve 100% . The future could be bright

With the resources the US have, you'd have to think they would prosper at any sport they take seriously. is it true that american parents try to get thier kids to concentrate on one sport so as to improve thier talent and further thier chances of a college scolarship in thier sport of choice.

As for Ireland today, I think we will score between 60 and 70 points. How is our front row going to cope with France and Argentina? Probably badly, but we should be able to threaten by getting the ball out to the backs and competing hard for lose ball.

Is this the first World Cup (Rugby) where the Soldiers Song won't be played?

Any updates?

Latest Results:

Wales 42-17 Canada - Wales only pulled away in the last 15/20 mins and up to that point were very poor.

South Africa 59-7 Samoa - South Africa looked pretty good. Habana was awesome.

I actually fancy south africa for the world cup and have shown in the tri-nations that they can compete with and beat the all blacks.

Lot of pointless matches for the next while. Must be hard for those teams getting stuffed on the world stage, total cannonfodder. The look on their faces through some of the games is hard to watch.
Anyway have to agree Habana was unbelievable, he'll be hyped up as the next Lomu if he keeps that up. Different style of player but unstoppable at times.

Quote from: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
Is this the first World Cup (Rugby) where the Soldiers Song won't be played?

Think it was the same last time, and maybe even in 1999 IIRC, though most people only discovered rugby existed around 2000.

Scots winning 56-10.

Here, I'm going for Namibia, for it says in wikipedia - The dry lands of Namibia were inhabited since early times by Bushmen

Pure class from O'Driscoll, easy for him

commentators on UTV are fcukin terrible. they cant even get the names right just called brian o'driscoll john o'driscoll and denis leamy david leamy. dont know why the BBC dont just fork out for the rights to the World Cup.

Is it UTV or ITV that's providing the commentary for this match?

great try - similar to Horgans vs England at Croker earlier in the year

Think we could hit the ton?? Are the Namibians even professional players?

should be further ahead.

they are amateurs

Mark Robson is doing the game where I'm watching on Setanta

Quote from: Owenmoresider on September 09, 2007, 06:41:17 PM

Quote from: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
Is this the first World Cup (Rugby) where the Soldiers Song won't be played?

Think it was the same last time, and maybe even in 1999 IIRC, though most people only discovered rugby existed around 2000.

Scots winning 56-10.

Just read Ireland's Call was first used at the 1995 WC.

Stuff try. Ireland's hopes in WC doesn't bode well based on their performance so far,

not looking good, but it is good that we are getting tested. the second half will tell us more when these guys get tired.

Hopefully having a tough first half will stand them good for later in the competition.

Very annoying to watch this, shocking number of fumbles turnovers and other unforced errors

Stringer's level of caution is annoying the hell out of me. You'd think we were playing the All-Blacks.

Ireland will be lucky to get out of the group stages based on this tonight. Another try for Nam

pure and utter shite

Argentina and France will destroy Ireland. They are fumbling all over the place and the passing is terrible.

I can only hope Namibia give Argentina a similar game.

I wonder if we'll still have one of the favourites tags after tonight?

this is shocking, i have a feeling i may not need my q/f tickets :o

Bar Shane Horgan this is the same Irish team that destroyed England in Croke Park in March. Are they just badly prepared?? The warning signs have been there since the summer tour to Argentina in June.

Just as well that TV3 have the rights to world cup. Can you imagine George Hook's analysis of this Irish performance. He'd be callling for people's heads!!

Didn't look like a try to me.

Would you blame him Ferm?

Quote from: ziggysego on September 09, 2007, 08:43:02 PM
Would you blame him Ferm?

Not at all. Imagine you had paid hundreds of euros/pounds to go to France to watch that performance. The football team last night and the rugby lads tonight. Not a good weekend for Irish sport

Poor poor performance tonight. Where was the fire in their bellies? Where was the accuratey? Where was Ireland? Their campaign will be short lived I fear.

Quote from: FermPundit on September 09, 2007, 08:40:49 PM
Just as well that TV3 have the rights to world cup. Can you imagine George Hook's analysis of this Irish performance. He'd be callling for people's heads!!

I was listening to him on Newstalk. I thought my radio was going to combust.

Isn't it as much to do with the age old problem of the Irish not enjoying the favourites tag?
All this talk of quarter finals - I'd say they'll play a lot better now that everyone will be writing them off.

jesus that was awful stuff, they fuckin' might as well go home now. I dont think getting beat by France and Argentina will do our confidence any good, better of bailing out. yeah im a pessimist

Quote from: Take Your Points on September 09, 2007, 08:42:26 PM
How bad is Logan and the UTV presentation?

Desperate

My God Ireland were awful. Couldn't handle the ball at all and even set pieces were poor. O'Gara surely can't kick as badly again.

Terrible performance, maybe it'll do us no harm in the longer term. They'll come in for serious criticism now, and that suits the Irish far better than being weighed down by expectation.
Almost all of the team can't play as badly again. O'Connell, Stringer and O'Gara especially need to seriously raise their game

Shocking performance , thank god georga are up next not a decent team

Shocking stuff. Almost made the soccer boys look good.

I spose the only way is up but bear in mind Tunisia beat Namibia in the pre-qualifiers.

Tu-fuckin-nisia!

Good point by Jim Glennon: so far the non-professionals are showing the 'pros' up for commitment, passion, fire-in-the-belly, etc.

Is part of irelands problem not the real lack of competition for places. D'Arcy was shocking tonight, stringer not far behind him,and the tight five were pushed all over the place, however no matter how badly they plaqy against georgia they will line up in the deciders against france and argentina. Some players appear to be in the comfort zone so far this season, size nine in the rear end required.

Brutal to watch. Wouldnt fancy paying a fortune to go to see players getting paid a small fortune to perform like that. They can only improve.

Hickie, Darcy, Stringer,  and O'Gara will improve as will O'Driscoll and Wallace after the much needed game time.

O'Connell has not played consistantly well for a long time and maybe should be dropped. Horan and Rory Best were below standard and could come under pressure.

We will improve. The All Blacks see these teams as cannon fodder, we see them as banana skins. Its just the way we are. 

Look what ever way the media spins this WC. Only two games matter in this group. The rest are about getting the Bonus point and not getting injured while getting a bit of match practice. Any tournament is about peaking and coming good when it matters. Ireland are in an ideal situation now where the January hype has eroded and this could be a blessing!

A shambles. Worst performance in years. Doesn't bode well for the next few weeks.

QuoteIs part of irelands problem not the real lack of competition for places. D'Arcy was shocking tonight, stringer not far behind him,and the tight five were pushed all over the place, however no matter how badly they plaqy against georgia they will line up in the deciders against france and argentina. Some players appear to be in the comfort zone so far this season, size nine in the rear end required.

Naill on the head and Eddie O'Sullivan has to take responsibility for this, I had tickets for this game but due to a wedding in Oregon I gave them away, suppose to be heading to the French game, not looking forward to that at all.....

QuoteHickie, Darcy, Stringer,  and O'Gara will improve as will O'Driscoll and Wallace after the much needed game time.

Stringer should be dropped, sick off calling for this and sick of watching his brutal performances for Ireland time and after time, he hasn't played well for Ireland in about three years. Stringer, Hickie, Horan and Easterby should all be replaced for the French game...

The biggest problem this result creates is the potential for doubts now being planted in the players minds.  I've a feeling that the pre-tournament warmup games may have already fatally injured the side in this regard.

My team for the french game

Horan
Flannery
The bull
o'callaghan
o'connell
wallace
Best
Leamy
stringer (its too late to make a radical selection change in such a pivotal position unfortunately)
O'Gara
Trimble (horgan if fit)
D'arcy
O'Driscoll
Hickey
Dempsey

I have to admit that I was pretty shocked at our performance the other night. Our accuracy was way off with several easy balls being dropped and we got completely out fought in the rucks especially in the second half. THe Namibians played the way we usually play when we're the underdogs!!

Having said that I was having a conversation with a man who's heavily involved with our hurling side and he said "I'm a man experienced in managing for many a year and I don't give a f*ck. You never show your hand too early! As soon as the tail's waggin' the dog... you're f*cked!"

I understand the first part as in we don't want to show too much or anything worked on in training camps reserved for the bigger games but I'm more worried with the basic errors and lack of passion that we witnessed last night. All in all it's still no time to panic and as people have said it's about peaking at the right times and for the right games. Let's judge the team on the games that really matter. If things don't go right after that then it's time to lose it!

Im heading over for this weekends game, and Im seriously hoping for a better performance. It was extremely hard to watch, the handling was absolutely brutal at times, players seemed to have there eye on the tackle coming in more than the ball! how many times did hickey drop the ball, although it may have something to do with the heavy hit he took. O Gara didnt look at all confident, get best out and flannery in, at least he will show a bit of passion! I know it was the first game and all, but it doesnt give you any confidence for the two big games in the group!

Is there anywhere the matches are shown on line?

you can watch them on setanta broadband- but you pay for it

I think you can get them on ITV as well.

itv.com

EOS contract extension for 4 years looks bad business for the IRFU at this moment. Team looks woefully undercooked and its hard to see them been within 7 of France in a fortnight.

Hickie and Darcy had nightmares. I'd worry about Darcy who is a confidence player ( see the lions 2 years ago) , at least with Horgan on the way back , Hickie could be dropped. O Garas kicks were worryingly not even close to going over. Stringer isn't a world class scrum half and the guy who could be, is 3rd Choice . Surprised at calls for Horans place on here as B Young isn't a viable alternative at this level. Rory Best has a nightmare and whilst Flannery wasn't much better , its a tight call whether Best superior scrummaging compensates for his lineout fallibility. The Myth of POC as a world class  player was again exposed last night. He is easily good enough for international rugby and calls a few post ago, for him to be dropped are wrong, but he aint  Chris Jack.
Wallace has played his first game of rugby in 5 months and i'd struggle to see how he'll be fit to face the French. With his attributes , perhaps we would be better starting with N Best and having wallace when it losens out a bit with 20 minutes to go. Easterby is too negative a player who simply is on the team for his lineout ability. Leamy is a blindside flanker who's restart attempts make me very nervous but again EOS in his wisdom has left our most natural No. 8 in Jamie Heaslip in Dublin.

On last nights performance can't see us getting within 7 of the French and with our points difference shot after last night , we will then need to beat Argentina and score 4 tries which will be a bridge too far.

QuoteHe is easily good enough for international rugby and calls a few post ago, for him to be dropped are wrong, but he aint  Chris Jack.

That was me calling for him to be dropped. It is not because he isn't our best lock, clearly he is...but he just needs a reminder. Start O'Callaghan and O'Kelly against Georgia. A few of these guys have been minding themselves for a few months now.

Team for Georgia:

Dempsey
Trimble
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Hickie
O'Gara
Boss
Young
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Kelly
Best
Wallace
Leamy

Why did they extend O'Sullivan's contract before the tounament started? Seems a very strage decision. The man now knows it doesn't matter how his team performs he has a job or at least a big pay off. What was their thinking?

I take your point Muppet but whatever else I'd question about POC , I wouldn't question his application.

On the team for Georgia, I'd play Murphy fullback ( Girv is going to play against France / Argentina and 1/4 !! so Murphy deserves a chance to put him under pressure ) , wings of Horgan ( needs the match) and Hickie ( another poor match and Trimble would be in ) , our 1st choice centres as both need games , ditto with O Gara and I'd play Reddan but EOS will play Stringer. Horan , Flannery and S Best would be my front row ( Hayes will have 3 big matches in a row hopefully !! ) , O Kelly and POC ( I think DOC looks slightly sharper and hence doesn't need the game as much as POC ) and a back row of Quinlan , Wallace and Ferris ( I think Quinlan is the only viable alternative to easterby as a lineout option, Wallace needs the game and conversely Leamy is a key player who looked sharp on Sunday and who again has hopefully 3 very physical matches in a row to come). As what has been alluded to here earlier , I think the first 15 is too set in stone and EOS should be telling Hickie , Murphy , Reddan ,Flannery and Quinlan that they are playing for a place against the French.  Is that team likely to happen ?? Knowing EOS form, its more likely he'll just slot Horgan in for Trimble.           

Holy god talk about your massive over reactions! Save your judgements for the big games lads. As has been proven pver the years we can't cope with being favourites! We won the match with a bonus point. At the end of the day the France and Argentina games need to be treated as knockout games... we need to win both of them to have any chance. We all know that the team have much in reserve for these games so I don't think there's too much to criticise.

I have to laugh at people calling for O'Sullivan's  head at this stage. This past season Ireland have played their best rugby in both the Autumn Internationals and the 6Nations. I don't see how O'Sullivan can be blamed for lack of player concentration in both the French and Italian games. As he said himself in the documentary "When France got the last try to snatch the 6 nations... were we any better or worse a team than we had been 2 hours previous?"

We've lost a couple of crappy warm up games and had one bad performance in the World Cup. Everything about the world cup is geared towards peaking at the right time... I think we will still do it!

QuoteHoly god talk about your massive over reactions! Save your judgements for the big games lads. As has been proven pver the years we can't cope with being favourites! We won the match with a bonus point. At the end of the day the France and Argentina games need to be treated as knockout games... we need to win both of them to have any chance.

This isn't reaction to just 1 match, it's the two games in Argentina, the games against Scotland, Bayonne and Italy and now that abysmal performance against the worst ranked team in the World Cup. It's impossible to look at that result in isolation and ignore the performance.

Quote
We all know that the team have much in reserve for these games so I don't think there's too much to criticise.

Where is the evidence of this, as far as I can see we peaked for the 6 nations and are now on a downward spiral as regards performaces..

QuoteI have to laugh at people calling for O'Sullivan's  head at this stage. This past season Ireland have played their best rugby in both the Autumn Internationals and the 6Nations. I don't see how O'Sullivan can be blamed for lack of player concentration in both the French and Italian games. As he said himself in the documentary "When France got the last try to snatch the 6 nations... were we any better or worse a team than we had been 2 hours previous?"

I have been calling for his head for the last 2 years, you don't win titles for glorified friendlies and he has failed to deliver a championship with this so called golden generation. The coach is responsible for performance and results end of, Eddie O'Sullivan is a fraud......

QuoteWe've lost a couple of crappy warm up games and had one bad performance in the World Cup. Everything about the world cup is geared towards peaking at the right time... I think we will still do it!

I hope you are right but like Sgt O'Neill in Platoon 'I got a bad feelin about this one'

Id go Horgan for Hickie but leave rest as it is. We dont have many options in front five. Our scrum has been better with Best than Flannery but dont know where maul has gone wrong.  Maybe Flannery offers more here and in the loose . Best would want to sort the darts out too.

I'd have (a keeping the head) Quinlan as better backrow option than the other Best. He strikes me as a bit of a fancy Dan with his main claim to glory clearing out that ruck against England at Croker. It was his poor positioning that let France in in earlier match .

Leave Stringer alone ! Boss isnt even the best scrum half on Ulster squad FFS. Reddan was the only real alternative here but EOS didnt give him a real chance.

Assuming Ireland, France and Argentina all gain maximum points against Namibia and Georgia, here are the possible results against France and Argentina that allow Ireland to qualify from the group:

Beat France and we qualify.
Draw with France and we qualify unless we lose to Argentina by 8 or more. (Even then, if Argentina get a bonus point against us, it goes to points difference).
Lose to France, however badly, and we qualify if we beat Argentina by 8 or more.

For Ireland to win the group:

Beat France and Argentina.
Beat France with a bonus point and draw with Argentina.
Draw with France and beat Argentina.
Lose to France, get a  bonus point, deprive them of a bonus point, then beat Argentina with a bonus point.

QuoteI'd have (a keeping the head) Quinlan as better backrow option than the other Best. He strikes me as a bit of a fancy Dan with his main claim to glory clearing out that ruck against England at Croker. It was his poor positioning that let France in in earlier match .

You're having a laugh, Quinlan shouldn't be in the squad never mind the team, he offers nothing in the loose excpept indiscipline. Best is a far more aggressve and destructive player and a much better defender than Quinlan.

QuoteLeave Stringer alone ! Boss isnt even the best scrum half on Ulster squad FFS. Reddan was the only real alternative here but EOS didnt give him a real chance.

Stringer should be dropped, tell me when his last good performance for Ireland was, as for Reddan he wasn't in even first choice for Wasps and didn't impress that much in their HEC campaign to show that he is capable of stepping up to internatnational class..

Sure why don't we just play 15 munster players altogether  ::)

Anyone want 2 tickets fir the Georgia game FOC? Shame to go to waste. Based in London.
Wont be a hassle getting them in Bordeaux but it's be nice if they were used.

Hardy -- Dont totally agree with your scenario of how we qualify !! If we draw with France , then we need to lose to Argentina by less than 7 and score 4 tries to be ahead of France. If we lose by 7 and not score 4 tries or vice versa then we are level and realistically Sunday put pay to our points difference ( particuliarily with France playing Georgia in their last match).

Dinny -- Agree with you on Quinlan. The only aspect that he is superior to N Best in is his lineout which EOS is fixated about. Again agree on Stringer but think you are slightly harsh on Reddan. Last season he played all the big matches for Wasps and had a couple of big man of the match performances.

Bcarrier --Despite whatever anyone thinks of Isaac Boss he is way superior to Kieron Campbell

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2007, 11:44:45 AM

Sure why don't we just play 15 munster players altogether  ::)

Did I mention Carney needs some game time  :).

Quinlan isnt quite the penalty fest he once was....and a bit more fire might be just what we need.

I really really cant be having Boss. His pass is brutal.

Ireland Team to Play Georgia





Ireland Coach Eddie O'Sullivan has made just one change to the team that defeated Namibia for Ireland's second game of the Rugby World Cup against Georgia on Saturday. Shane Horgan returns to the Ireland starting XV having fully recovered from a knee ligament strain which occurred while warming up for the pre Rugby World Cup game against Scotland in August.



Horgan, who replaces Andrew Trimble, is the only change to the starting XV from the game against Namibia on Sunday last. Brian O'Driscoll, Marcus Horan and Ronan O'Gara have all been passed fit to play following minor injuries picked up in the opening game of the tournament. Ireland Coach Eddie O'Sullivan said: "Shane has recovered fully and in line with the original prognosis. His return is a boost to the squad and to the team"





15 – Girvan Dempsey      (Terenure College/Leinster)
14 – Shane Horgan         (Boyne/Leinster) 
13 – Brian O'Driscoll       (UCD/Leinster) captain
12 – Gordon D'Arcy         (Lansdowne/Leinster) 
11 – Denis Hickie            (St. Mary's College/Leinster)


10 – Ronan O'Gara         (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Peter Stringer           (Shannon/Munster) 
1 – Marcus Horan           (Shannon/Munster) 
2 – Rory Best                 (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
3 – John Hayes               (Shannon/Munster)
4 – Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 
5 – Paul O'Connell          (Young Munster/Munster)
6 – Simon Easterby        (Llanelli)
7 – David Wallace           (Garryowen/Munster)
8 – Denis Leamy             (Cork Constitution/Munster) 



Replacements:

16 – Jerry Flannery         (Shannon/Munster)
17 – Simon Best             (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
18 – Malcolm O'Kelly       (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
19 – Neil Best                 (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
20 – Isaac Boss              (Ballymena/Ulster)
21 – Paddy Wallace        (Ballymena/Ulster) 
22 – Geordan Murphy     (Leicester)



Unreal

With Trimble injured probably best option. ( Wouldnt be my bench though - but shows how limited our options are) . EOS stays true to form.

I think I would prefer Flannery to Best at hooker. The scrum is not as important nowadays, whereas a mauling, rucking and ball carrying pack is, and that suits Flannery down to the ground. I think at lineouts, Flannery is more accurate, but that's getting better from Best, whereas Flannery might suffer there for a while due to lack of game time.

Would have liked to see Carney get a run out. Surely we could have gotten away with only one of Murphy and Wallace on the subs, I would've liked to have seen Carney get a run out in this kind of game as I think it's one where his physicality would have caused problems. Oh well I guess we won't have the chance to see him at all this World Cup. Disappointing.

On a positive note, it's great to see Dougie Howlett score a hat trick against the Italians. Where will Munster play him, on the wing or at Full back?

If I was Gerry Flannery I'd be fuming now ......  he offered so much more than Best did and deserved his starting place .......

Not a fan of Best ..... he either cant hear the lineout calls ...ie a couple of six nations matches .....or he throws the ball in arseways ....giving possession away .......


Geordan Murphy should have been a chance on the wing in place of Hickey .....  at least give him a chance to put Hickey or Dempsey under pressure for the France and Argentina match.......

Horgan coming on for Trimble is a given ......

Quote from: Teeling Gael on September 11, 2007, 12:20:41 PM
Hardy -- Dont totally agree with your scenario of how we qualify !! If we draw with France , then we need to lose to Argentina by less than 7 and score 4 tries to be ahead of France. If we lose by 7 and not score 4 tries or vice versa then we are level and realistically Sunday put pay to our points difference ( particuliarily with France playing Georgia in their last match).

You're right, except the bonus point cut-off for a loss is 7 or less (i.e. less than 8, rather than less than 7). If Ireland draw with France and lose to Argentina by less than 8 it goes to points difference between Ireland and France for second place.

Quote from: Hardy on September 11, 2007, 03:40:44 PM

Quote from: Teeling Gael on September 11, 2007, 12:20:41 PM
Hardy -- Dont totally agree with your scenario of how we qualify !! If we draw with France , then we need to lose to Argentina by less than 7 and score 4 tries to be ahead of France. If we lose by 7 and not score 4 tries or vice versa then we are level and realistically Sunday put pay to our points difference ( particuliarily with France playing Georgia in their last match).

You’re right, except the bonus point cut-off for a loss is 7 or less (i.e. less than 8, rather than less than 7). If Ireland draw with France and lose to Argentina by less than 8 it goes to points difference between Ireland and France for second place.

which realistically wont be us after Sunday.

Disappointed with that team though quite predictable. At the squad announcement , EOS had said he would make a better use of his squad but obviously with it been so apparent that the teams preparation is undercooked he had to try and get his first 15 sharp. Cant help morale in the camp with 8 guys now knowing they wouldn't see any action bar injury.

Quote from: Teeling Gael on September 11, 2007, 03:55:02 PM

Quote from: Hardy on September 11, 2007, 03:40:44 PM

Quote from: Teeling Gael on September 11, 2007, 12:20:41 PM
Hardy -- Dont totally agree with your scenario of how we qualify !! If we draw with France , then we need to lose to Argentina by less than 7 and score 4 tries to be ahead of France. If we lose by 7 and not score 4 tries or vice versa then we are level and realistically Sunday put pay to our points difference ( particuliarily with France playing Georgia in their last match).

You're right, except the bonus point cut-off for a loss is 7 or less (i.e. less than 8, rather than less than 7). If Ireland draw with France and lose to Argentina by less than 8 it goes to points difference between Ireland and France for second place.

which realistically wont be us after Sunday.

Disappointed with that team though quite predictable. At the squad announcement , EOS had said he would make a better use of his squad but obviously with it been so apparent that the teams preparation is undercooked he had to try and get his first 15 sharp. Cant help morale in the camp with 8 guys now knowing they wouldn't see any action bar injury.

I don't think the EOS has any choice at this point other than play his best 15 all the way through, regardless of the points differnce in the rsult on Sunday the most glaring issue was the lack of match fittness that was shown in the players. if we are to get anywhere in this world cup we will need alot of luck with injury as we just gotta hope that this group of players close ranks and some old fashioned hard work and determination gets us out of the group. I still believe we will either top this group or go out, i don't think second place is an option anymore.

Lets all hope for a low score and lots of injuries tonight;)

Quite frankly I agree with the team selection bar the best Best/Flannery choice. Rememeber boys its the beginning of the season and we need game time as Sunday's performance testifies to. There was no point making a handful of changes just to give guys a run out.  EOS knows the 15 he wants to play against the Argies & France and its pretty close to the 15 selected if not the actaul 15 barring injuries, first and foremost we need to win (I know, I know).

Flannery/Best- Best is a better scrummager & Flannery the better lineout thrower. The Argies and France have a better chance of dominating in the scrum if we start Flannery.

All Blacks change 11 for Portugal


New Zealand coach Graham Henry has made 11 changes for their second World Cup Pool C match against Portugal in Lyon on Saturday.

Jerry Collins, Ali Williams, Chris Jack, and Mils Muliaina, who moves from centre to full-back, are the only men left from the 76-14 win over Italy.

Andrew Hore, Greg Somerville and Neemia Tialata play front row with Nick Evans and Brendon Leonard at half-back.

Aaron Mauger and Conrad Smith will feature in the midfield.

Fiji-born Joe Rokocoko will play on one wing, while Isaia Toeava, normally a centre, starts on the other wing.

Hooker Keven Mealamu provides back-row cover, while Henry admitted that prop Carl Hayman could also provide cover for lock.

"We wanted to give every member of the squad a run during these first two pool matches and that's been the major consideration in naming this team," said Henry.

"We have also talked about raising our standards from week to week and that's the challenge for this Saturday. We want to find the mental strength to play better for longer than we did against Italy."

Of the 30-man squad, only locks Keith Robinson and Reuben Thorne were not considered for selection due to injury.

But Henry said they were both making good progress and should be available for selection when the All Blacks meet Scotland in Edinburgh on 23 September.

New Zealand: Mils Muliaina; Isaia Toeava, Conrad Smith, Aaron Mauger, Joe Rokocoko; Nick Evans, Brendon Leonard; Neemia Tialata, Andrew Hore, Greg Somerville, Chris Jack, Ali Williams, Jerry Collins (capt), Chris Masoe, Sione Lauaki.

Replacements: Anton Oliver, Tony Woodcock, Carl Hayman, Rodney So'oialo, Keven Mealamu, Andy Ellis, Leon MacDonald

Georgia 3 Argentina 0

they should play for the draw now :D

All Cacks Cont. on the score burd.

Quote from: Galwaybhoy on September 08, 2007, 01:06:39 PM
Finally got UTV by adding channels to my Sky Box.

This is going to be a hammering.  38-0 and only 19 minutes gone...

how do get utv on sky?

Quote from: hardstation on September 11, 2007, 07:24:13 PM
Yis wee cnuts. I missed the feckin boat there.

I f**king warned you.

There's an Argie with the togs torn clane aff him. Tough nuts these Georgians. Great plaster mouldings though.

That's a bruising encounter to be sure. Georgians going all out and they could snake a win here.

Half-Time entertainment:

Noun: Georgian(s)
Adjective: Georgian
Ethnic groups:
Georgian 70.1%, Armenian 8.1%, Russian 6.3%, Azeri 5.7%, Ossetian 3%, Abkhaz 1.8%, other 5%
Religions:
Christian Orthodox 75% (Georgian Orthodox 65%, Russian Orthodox 10%), Muslim 11%, Armenian Apostolic 8%, unknown 6%
Languages:
Georgian 71% (official - the Kartvelian group of the Iberian - Caucasian language), Russian 9%, Armenian 7%, Azeri 6%, other 7%

Official holidays

1 January New Year's day
7 January Christmas Day
19 January Epiphany
3 March Mothers day
9 April Memorial day
15 Apri Easter
26 May Independence Day
24 August Constitution day
28 August Mariamoba (St. Maria day)
14 October Svetiskhovloba
17 October Independence day
23 November Giorgoba (St. George day)

Measures: Metric units
Currency GEL: Georgian Lari (1GEL = 100 tetri)

Arable land: 9%
Permanent crops: 4%
Permanent pastures: 25%
Forests and woodland: 34%
Other: 28% (1993 est.)
Irrigated land: 4,000 sq km (1993 est.)
Natural hazards: earthquakes
Population: 5,019,538 (July 2000 est.)

Game on. Please take yout seats. No smoking.

Took your advice alright ONeill and swapped for Conteponi, not just paying the dividends I'd hoped for, so far, but Ireland's cause comes first. Go Georgia!

Argentina definitely here for the taking. Crowd fairly roaring on George.

Georgia were 2/1 to be within 30 points on betfair at the start of the game, smug brother has them done, sadly I don't!
Unbelievable odds in hindsight

The Georgians look like a bunch of escaped convicts and are playing like ones. Fantastic effort from them.

Would be a big boost to Ireland if they could deny the Argies 4 tries and the bonus point. Not sure if they can keep defending so rabidly though.

Ireland play Georgia 4 days later. Hopefully they'll be knackered.

Argentina 13 - 3 Georgia
Lucas Borges with the try
Conteponi adds the conversion

Feckin Sopcast down. Missed it.

Another try, balls to this

Quote from: hardstation on September 11, 2007, 08:14:56 PM
Another try for Borges.

Toyed with putting that balax in. Decided against it.

Quote from: ONeill on September 11, 2007, 08:16:44 PM

Quote from: hardstation on September 11, 2007, 08:14:56 PM
Another try for Borges.

Toyed with putting that balax in. Decided against it.

Who's the balax now.  ;)

(EDIT - now with emoticon as wasn't meant to offend)

Looked at that balax too. Patricio Albacete. Pat for short. Or Alby.

Oh Scheiss....

and Contepomi misses the conversion and is taken off.

6 minutes to find another for the bonus point.

Quote from: ONeill on September 11, 2007, 08:09:18 PM
Feckin Sopcast down. Missed it.

Which channel?

Well well well. How crucial will that be? Federico Martin Aramburu!

All over

Argentina 33 - 3 Georgia

No luck for Ireland with that last minute try giving Argentina the bonus point. No looking good.

Whatever problems Ireland may have, and no matter what you think of our coach, take solace in that at least we're not going into our biggest match of the groups stages with Andy Farrell at fly-half. Ashton has lost his marbles.

Farrell at Fly Half?? You must be having a laugh Wobbler!

QuoteWhatever problems Ireland may have, and no matter what you think of our coach, take solace in that at least we're not going into our biggest match of the groups stages with Andy Farrell at fly-half. Ashton has lost his marbles.

Tempted to laugh but I can see the logic in that SA are very physical and look to attack the 10 at every opportunity, Farrel obviously has great defence and his distribution skills might be better suited to 10 than 12.

They've nothing to lose at this stage...

Nah he's not fly half wobbler he's just taking over the kicking duties. Mike Catt's in there.

In fairness I think Farrell has a good track record with kicking in league so not  that big a gamble I wouldn't have thought.

Italy 5-0 Romania

That was a poor game last night, the bits I saw. It was like Ireland v Namibia for handling errors, except both teams played like Ireland. The Scots must be amazed at how poor Italy look.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 13, 2007, 09:02:50 AM
That was a poor game last night, the bits I saw. It was like Ireland v Namibia for handling errors, except both teams played like Ireland. The Scots must be amazed at how poor Italy look.

And expect Ireland got the bonus point too, Italy are in trouble .

Surely its obvious that farrell named at 10 is a complete bluff and that catt will actually play there? i haven't heard one commentator in the british press suggest this. Can't see the old colonials falling for that one.

why is it that neither tv3 nor itv aren't providing highlights programs during the week? tv3 in particular, who are showing fcuk all games, could at least throw up a half hour highlights program. was looking forward to seeing the argie game yesterday evening but it couldn't be found.

It is encouraging that the "weaker" countries are closing the gap on the established rugby nations. i appreciate that for example the namibian team were mostly s african provincial players but these nations need to progress somehow and they seem to be improving slowly.

Uladh, I think tv3 are only contracted to cover a few games(mostly the Irish games), so their hands are tied I'd say.  Setanta had been advertising the fact that they were showing ALL the matches, didn't check to see whether last night's matches were on though.

The games were on Setanta last night. I watched a bit of the Italy/Romania game.

During the Japan Fiji game last night did I see an Irish streaker?  He had a tri colour but it was hard to tell if it was the Irish one or the Italian one. 

Quote from: ludermor on September 11, 2007, 07:27:10 PM

Quote from: Galwaybhoy on September 08, 2007, 01:06:39 PM
Finally got UTV by adding channels to my Sky Box.

This is going to be a hammering.  38-0 and only 19 minutes gone...

how do get utv on sky?

anyone?

Quote from: ludermor on September 13, 2007, 08:12:17 PM

Quote from: ludermor on September 11, 2007, 07:27:10 PM

Quote from: Galwaybhoy on September 08, 2007, 01:06:39 PM
Finally got UTV by adding channels to my Sky Box.

This is going to be a hammering.  38-0 and only 19 minutes gone...

how do get utv on sky?

anyone?

On your Sky remote, go to Services->System Setup->Add Channels
In the Frequnecy box, enter 10906
In the Polarisation box, select V
In the Symbol Rate box, select 22
In the FEC box, select 5/6
Select "Find Channels"
Scroll down to each one of interest and press the yellow button to select them
When you are done press the "Select" button
Those channels are now available in Services->Other Channels

England should have their asses handed to them tonight ;D

Quote from: Tankie on September 14, 2007, 05:44:27 PM
England should have their asses handed to them tonight ;D

Can see them getting absolutely tanked. stanjames have South Africa -16 at evens - like buying money i would imagine.

Rousing rendition of GSTQ.

England will lose narrowly. 21-20

Comical, but hopefully the only thing the English will get to laugh at all night.
Evens at +16 in the handicap looking good right now

f**k that lads - did any of you just see the "bowl-out" in the cricket ?


:D :D :D :D :D :D

No, but this brutal assasination of the england team by southern hemisphere pundit on setanta here has me smilling from ear to ear! :D :D :D :D :D

"That number 9 in the white shirt is just not international standard - he shouldnt be there"

Ouch

Christ am I hung over still or is that the real england strip.

20-0 you'd think they'd stop talking about the "sweet chariot" on ITV.

Habana's a well marked man.

Feel a wee bit sorry for Robinson - he has no one willing to play with him.

This is humiliation for John Bull.

All this - PLUS its a friday! What a day.

Yellow. If that was Ireland, I'd be ashamed.

The chariot's wheels have fallen off. That's a humiliation if ever there was one.

Quote from: ONeill on September 14, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
Feel a wee bit sorry for Robinson - he has no one willing to play with him.

Have always followed Robinson since he played full back with Wigan - he's a great player

and south africa didnt even play that well!!
I loved one of the lads on ITV, englands world cup reign is finally over, no fuckin shit

Were Sth Africa even missing a few players? I thought i heard that on radio..
Didn't see any of the match were England really bad?

QuoteDidn't see any of the match were England really bad?

I don't know much about rugby but I'd have to say yes. 

I'd say a gaa board team could beat them.

Apologies if it was said here already but England did well to get 'Nil'

They were pants.

SA were having a laugh at the end.

England have really fallen apart since the last world cup. A lot of it is down to the clubs over there who have the players destroyed playing 40 matches a year. O'Driscoll and O'Connell would play roughly half that number. They had lost Wilkinson, Barkely, Vickery before the game as well as their best outside back strettle. The ylost Robinson after an hour and now look like they might lose against Samoa.

Watching this world cup really makes you wonder about the standard of the six nations. France beat at home by argentina, Italy obliterated by the all-blacks and now the Boks stuff england while playing in second gear. We will see how the welsh get on with the aussies but it is starting to look like a southern hemisphere shoot out.

England were terrible, Lacking any creativity or any scoring threats. Feel sorry for Robinson. Great athelete and it was terrible if his international career ends on this note but with the England team the way it is, its was always going to end in failure. The WC is going South of the Hemisphere. The best Northern Hemi team are France and they were beat by a South Hemi team that arent in the top 3 of all Southern Hemisphere teams. Im not even sure if Irelands games are worth watching.

martin johnson just annoyed me on itv last night he wouldn't even say that England were beaten by the better team instead he was going on about mistakes that they made. England weren't at the races last night

Quote from: 5iveTimes on September 15, 2007, 11:33:14 AM
You get a more balanced view on Setanta, not just with the Rugby, but with all sports.

I don't have it 5iveTimes but i'm going to have to

The fields of Greencastle. I like it hardstation

Sheskinshule ;-) A try!

this is hard to watch, terrible kicking display.

Random fact: the stadium in Bordeaux is a listed building and is protected under French conservation laws.  Just thought id let you all know :)

Poor game so far.

That freaken band in the backround is driving me insane......  >:(

the mexician wave, yahoooooo!!!!

yawooooo.

this is as bad as the Namabia game

Quote from: MayoMan on September 15, 2007, 08:32:15 PM
That freaken band in the backround is driving me insane......  >:(

Aye me too.

Why did it take the tv stations 15 minutes to get a clock and scoreboard up on the screen, and they said there was no scoreboard or clock in the stadium????

Why do tits at these games insists on holding the tricolour the wrong way round?

*shakes head*

Was on the cards. Ireland have been under performing in this campaign. Pull your socks up lads!

COME ON IRELAND, 2 more tries needed for the bonus point.

You'd want to have a heart of stone not to find this hilarious

boss  :( 2 mistakes in 2 mins

bloody nora as well

Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2007, 09:25:23 PM

Quote from: deiseach on September 15, 2007, 09:23:21 PM
You'd want to have a heart of stone not to find this hilarious

I am quietly hoping Georgia win
What deiseach? ;)

I don't understand why they (on tv3) keep talking about bonus points and points difference, I doubt it won't matter!

sh1t, nothing more, nothing less,

Worth a new four year contract any day! :D

A second string Georgia were the better team.

I think this means if Ireland lose one game (to either France or Argentina), they are essentially out.

George Hook has gone nuclear on Newstalk 106.

Shocking performance and I would not have been sad had Georgia had won.

We're out, gone, finished. Not a hope of beating France and Argentina. Lucky not to lose! f**king devastated by this. I would give anything to know what the f**k is going on with this team. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Ruck ball was unbelievably slow, half to do with the Georgian effort but half our own f**king fault. Kicking was horrendous. We edged out Argentina in Lansdowne a couple of years back by being patient and kicking well. Every team in this tournament knows exactly how to beat us and our only way of counteracting it is not working.

Again I would give anything to know what's going on, something's not right there. If you ask me there's a strong comparison with the Kerr era of the soccer team, players got fed up with "paralysis by analysis" or whatever. I would guess another 4 years of O'Sullivan is sticking in the craw of some players. If Munster played Georgia would the result be like tonight? Not a hope.

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 15, 2007, 09:52:46 PM
George Hook has gone nuclear on Newstalk 106.

Shocking performance and I would not have been sad had Georgia had won.

Listtened to him too, would you blame him?

Some of us give out about the fact that the team doesn't play under the tricolour or the anthem. After that, would they deserve to?

Crawled over the line! I Know these guys are supposed to rise to the BIG occasions, which should mean Argentina and France but at the moment this is hard to see. Being Irish and biased we can only hope this is a glitch on the road to greater things ;D

Incredible, the better team lost :o Huge credit must go to the Georgians but if they had a bit more composure they would have won the match, how many drop goals did they float just past in the 2nd half and they were worth a try at the end too.

Ireland still won though and despite these two shocking performances they still have a great chance to progress. They will also be underdogs now which might suit them pretty well!

beat france and we will go through otherwise out.

Thank feck there is some decent sport on tomorrow.

So drawing a line, this is worse than the Soccer boys against San Marino.

Those whistlers from the North should be kept away from TV post match interviews
Eddie how would you exhssssplain that preformancssssse?
What repairsssss do you have to make now?

Quote from: bcarrier on September 15, 2007, 10:11:03 PM
beat france and we will go through otherwise out.

If we can't counteract Georgia playing tight and putting us under pressure what hope do we have against France? We just aren't playing well and that's not going to change by next Friday. Eddie is a great man for logic etc. and it's fair enough saying we just have to improve, but logically how is that improvement going to happen?

Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2007, 10:14:56 PM
So drawing a line, this is worse than the Soccer boys against San Marino.

I don't think it was as bad as San Marino. Georgia looked quite tasty in places, and at least the rugger buggers had the good grace to look embarrassed at the final whistle rather than lepping around like mad things

Embarrassed because they were very lucky after being outplayed by a second string Georgian team who came within inches of winning.
You´d have to admit the margins are thin between that and the Soccer lads.

Quote from: we are blue... etc on September 15, 2007, 10:21:08 PM
Eddie is a great man for logic etc. and it's fair enough saying we just have to improve, but logically how is that improvement going to happen?

Indeed. Eddie's big into statements like "I take full responsibility", as if saying that makes everything okay.

Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2007, 10:31:31 PM
Embarrassed because they were very lucky after being outplayed by a second string Georgian team who came within inches of winning.
You´d have to admit the margins are thin between that and the Soccer lads.

Can't argue with any of that.

TV3 Irish wildcards

Glennon - Reddan ( with stringer on bench)
Costelloe - Quinlan
Henderson - Carney

Dinny is defintely watching setanta  .

Flannery will come in for Rory Best. I think EOS will drop stringer and replace with Boss- the ultimate wrong move IMO...I am really in anybody but boss camp. Anyway there always has to be one "Ulster" representative.

Quote from: bcarrier on September 15, 2007, 10:37:18 PM
TV3 Irish wildcards

Glennon - Reddan ( with stringer on bench)
Costelloe - Quinlan
Henderson - Carney

Dinny is defintely watching setanta  .

Flannery will come in for Rory Best. I think EOS will drop stringer and replace with Boss- the ultimate wrong move IMO...I am really in anybody but boss camp. Anyway there always has to be one "Ulster" representative.

The token Nordie question is an easy one IYAM cos Neil Best is far better than Simon Easterby. Boss was dodgy alright but I thought Stringer was VERY poor in the speed and quality of his passing. Seems like it takes 5 minutes for ball to clear the ruck and another 5 to get the pass out wide..

QuoteTV3 Irish wildcards

Glennon - Reddan ( with stringer on bench)
Costelloe - Quinlan
Henderson - Carney

Dinny is defintely watching setanta  .

Ha! Herself had the good manners to take the remote control off me at full-time, if I had heard those comments I would put my boot through the TV.

Georgia deserved the win and I was hoping they would do it, as WAB as mentioned something is definitely wrong, most normal managers would respond with changes 4-year Eddie won't. However I'm going to Paris and by the time I get there I'll be thinking we'll have a great chance.....

Will comment on the match Monday when I have calmed down...

Oh and according to Gerry Thornley who knows a little bit more than some soccer commentator from the BBC, Georgia have 3000 players with 90 playing professionally...

Now that the banana skins are out of the way, we will beat France. I know it isn't logical at the moment but I just feel it in the bones. We will win on Friday as that is the game this team have been waiting for since February.

I think we're hoping Ireland simply couldn't get the France and Argentina matches out of their heads and that was the reason for the poor fare we've witnessed til now. Ireland have looked remarkably heavy-legged, lethargic and static although it could be fair to say that all of the 6-nations have so far. In Ireland's case it looks like the players think they're better than what they are and are not putting in the work to get there.

Putting all our eggs into the one basket is the road to disaster. France will tear into us next Friday, however I expect the Irish backs to see much more of the ball given the opposition.

If the World Cup had been 12 months ago.....

(http://www.scrum.com/images/news/serge_blanco(1).jpg)

I guarantee that if this man pulled on an XXXL France jersey next week, he'd still be c**k sure of giving the Irish a right trouncing. France simply don't fear Ireland, and there is no way they'll blow it against us.

Georgia must be dissapointed not to have won this game. I was actually finding myself almost hoping they would. Ireland will lose to France and Argentina, dont even think for a second that they'll win. Your kidding yourself. Just because Ireland are playing France do you think ROG will suddenly be able to find touch?? Or that Stringer will suddenly start giving catchable balls. This team is a mess. France and Argentina have got a clear idea of how to beat the Irish from the last 2 games and perhaps over the last 2 years. Stay of execution is all we got from tonight. It is coming home to roost on people who thought that ireland could possibly win a World Cup based on a few test games last Autumn. This is the same Irish team who failed in Croke park against France and against Italy in Rome. They should have been labelled chokers instead of the Dubs. But instead people decided to look at things with rose tinted glasses. The glass maybe half full for you but you'll that it is very shallow.

QuoteThe glass maybe half full for you but you'll that it is very shallow.

::) ::)

Samoa 15-19 Tonga


Fiji 29-16 Canada

it will be interesting to see how namibia do against france tonight

Can't believe it's not on mainstream TV tonight. ITVbloody4.

Quote from: muppet on September 16, 2007, 12:26:50 AM

QuoteThe glass maybe half full for you but you'll that it is very shallow.

::) ::)

yes it is terrible. but i am determined to come up with my own sporting cliche. Bet Michael Lyster would like to use that one.

right, can someone tell me what the crais is when Ireland play Argentina?

13 tries for France - they looked ok (even though 2 of them should not have been given on technicalities and 2 more had forward passes on the lead up).
However, when taking into account that Namibia played without their Number 8 for 60 minutes (sent off), appeared to be completely out on their feet after half an hour and that they must have set a record for number of missed tackles, then it would be foolish to read anything into Frances performance ..... France after all had numerous unforced errors.
So, what of Friday? Despite all the negative sentiment following the Georgia match, Ireland nonetheless showed a big improvement - only missed one tackle being one relevant stat !. A similar level of improvement again is needed to stay in touch with France, double that level to win  ..... and i think that we are capable of it, once Neil Best (for Easterby), Reddan (for Stringer), Flannery (for Best) and possibly Murphy for Hickie. After all, here are the "golden generation" playing for their reputations, their legacies, their careers  ..... and they will be underdogs   ..... and and massive massive pressure on France - biggest game in their history is how they are labeling it and they don't yet know their strongest team.

BTW, why are all the analysts saying we have to win our remaining 2 games to get out of the group. Unless i can't count, then if we beat France then we are through ?? OK, we almost certainly have to win the remaining 2 to avoid NZ in the quarters but thats a different story

yeah beat france we are through to the q/f but we need to win the two for a game against scotland in the q/fs

I'd go with most of Blast's changes, but EOS is the most conservative of managers and will probably start both Hickey and Easterby against France out of some form of misguided loyalty. Leamy is also having a mare but at least he seems to be trying unlike some of the others. Stringer's pass to give away the intercepted try the other night was poor of the highest order and even O'Driscoll ate the bake of him for it. Boss isn't perfect but at least he gives the oppositions back row something to think about at scrumtime and Geordan Murphy must have shit in Eddies shoe or something not to be considered or brought on the last two games when Hickey was so abjectly poor and almost cost Ireland with yet another missed tackle just before the final whistle.

Neil Best should add something to the ruck and maul as I've never seen Easterby poleaxe someone in the tackle the way Best can. We need a dirty dog in the nitty gritty and Best is the man. The pack have generally been poor at their main jobs and need to sharpen up. Ireland can't afford any stupid mistakes like knock on's etc as they can't scrummage worth a f**k at this level and need to reduce the scrum count as much as possible.

I'm not confident Ireland can do anything against France but we all live in hope.

Right here's my tuppence worth...

The Georgia game was a game we should have lost and no amount of positive spin will change that, our pack were beaten up front and lost nearly all the collossions at the breakdown, when was the last time you saw an Irish backrow so ineffective, the Wallace gamble has failed and he is clearly not fit, Eddie O'Suillivan's decision not to bring a specialist 7 is coming back to haunt him, likewise his decision not to bring a specialist 8, Denis Leamy was terrible against Georgia and someone like Jamie Heaslip or Roger Wilson should have been in the squad. As much I dislike the chap as a player I would introduce Quinlan into the backow at 7 and Best at 6 and Easterby at 8 dropping both Leamy and Wallace, leaving only Leamy on the bench. I think O'Callaghan is been made a scape goat for O'Connell's putrid perfomances, I would drop O'Connell and play Malcom O'Kelly, a pumped up angry O'Connell would be perfect to come in off the bench after 40/50 minutes. Up front I'd get rid of Horan, too light and replace him with Best, Flannery I think is starting due to injury anyway.

I have to laugh at people calling for Reddan, this guy was thrid choice at Munster, 2nd choice at Wasps, only got in the team because of injury, played one good game that I can remember the quarter-final against Leinster in the HEC, in his only full international looked woefully out of his dept. While Boss has his flaws, people going out about his two steps is unreal, probably the best scrum-half over the last 10 years is George 3 or 4 step Gregan, funny how it is Munster fans who use this as a stick to beat him with. Boss has good defence, an average pass but has a good break which is enough to fix fringe defence, anything at this moment would be better than Stringer.

I'd also bring Murphy in at full back and Kearney on the wing..

So my team to play France would be

Best, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callagahan, O'Kelly, Best, Quinlan, Easterby, Boss, O'Gara, Kearney, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, Murphy......

This Irish team are obviously holding back on set-piece moves are playing within themselves but I'm very worried about our form and I believe morale in the camp cannot be good, who wants to train when you have no chance of been selected. I'm heading to Paris on Friday and I want to believe we have a chance, I think we do have it in us but now is the time for the players to shut up and deliver and for all Irish people to get behind their team...

I wonder if there is any Munster/Leinster friction in camp ? The HEC has definitely brought a new edge to these encounters and wonder if there is  something leftover. Probably fine when things going well but when it trouble like this and locked away for weeks maybe something has developed . Victor Costolloe made an interesting comment at half time about Wallace sin bin and Leamy error off attacking scrum something like ..." these are the kind of errors that really piss off your teammates". 

Leamy had a game riddled with moments of game saving brillance and game losing basic errors. I dont know what EOS should do about him..to my eye he is only one in pack bringing required level of physicality but there are just too many decision making ( quick taps etc) and handling errors to make a strong case for his inclusion. I thought Wallace played better than against nambia and would hope he can come on a lot for next game if selected. He needs to. Easterby has to be under pressure for his place too. You could change them all but reality is EOS will probably leave it as it is.

Front 5 is a real worry. Hayes does not look like he has 80mins in him any more and as one of the papers put it Horan wouldnt make the Georgia bench. Flannery come in now for Best but he doesnt look like player he did in his debut season either. I think POC will come good. We need an England Croke park performance from him. Malcolm O Kelly and DOC should be splitting the other lock job.

Stringer has to stay because there is no real alternative. ROG needs to turn up too. He is having a brutal WC.

Doe anyone genuinely believe eddie will drop stringer? not gonna happen

trying to look at it from EOS's point of view, with the consistently in team selection, he obviously planned to use these opening two games as the final warm up games. with the game preparation they had before the tournament, these two games were needed, in eddie's mind, to gel the starting team. for that reason i think there will be minimal changes. he thinks he knows his best team and in a lot of ways thats maybe the problem as the starters are comfortable and the squad players feel there's nothing they can do. as someone said, the french don't know their best team but between last night and the irish game they are all playing for a starting place in any potential quarter final.

obviously the irish have not shown their hand in set piece moves and back patterns but their form is terrible. however they have obviously fixated on this french game for some time and that mindset could pay dividends come friday night. the most worrying factor has been the form of key individuals. o'gara, stringer, POC, BOD. Hickie and D'arcy all need to hit the ground running on friday or there will be trouble.

With flannery getting in at last due to injury, i can't see EOS making any more changes. i'd love to see boss in for stringer and best in for easterby but it won't happen.

The caveman was very scary last night...

Stringer is getting plenty of stick here (and rightly so!) but to my mind Ronan O'Gara has returned to his flaky worst which is a disaster for this Irish team. In the run up to the World Cup he was quoted as stating that he wanted to prove that he was the 2nd best out half in the world. Hope he forgets about such horse shit and concentrates on his game. We all know what he's capable of but it's now or never.
I think EOS has taken a leave out of England's book for the last World Cup and basically played the same team for a year or so to build up confidence, and at the moment it looks to have backfired because we look very stale.
Best has to come in for Easterby, Flannery for Best, Boss for Stringer and G Murphy for Hickey. If we had an alternative for O'Gara it would have to be looked at but we don't, so we'll have to put up with whatever he gives us.

Dinny -- I'd agree with alot of what you post here on rugby matters but can't agree this morning. Firstly on Reddan . Yes he was 3rd choice effectively 3 seasons ago for Munster but he left . Yes he was 2nd choice at Wasps to Dawson 2 seasons ago but last season in the premiership where squad rotation is ripe , he was Wasps 1st choice in their big games and played consistently well(not just once) winning the European cup . That is a very evident progression from where he was 3 years ago rather than Stringers static form. To discard him on 1 average performance behind a beaten and 2nd choice pack in Argentina is disingenous and your pick ( and mine !) Boss caused 2 tries on his debut in Australia 12 months earlier. What I'd agree with you on , is that he can't play on Friday , as he aint experienced enough at International rugby. Who knows whether he is good enough or not, because under EOS no one gets an opportunity to break into his team.

To drop POC for MOK doesn't make any sense to me. I consistently say that POC isn't the living legend he is portrayed as. In fact he isn't more that a good international class 2nd row rather than been the remotely world class lock he is portrayed as but to say that, MOK who barley played a competitive game of rugby all year, at the twilight of his career is better in a crucial match is wrong

Presumably you are talking of  Brian Carney rather than Rob Kearney. How does your logic on Reddan tie in here ?? Carney hasn't yet played a serious game of rugby union in his career to date ( Magners league and Argentina).

Horgan doesn't look fit , Hickies is playing like he has retired already so admittedly we do have problems on the wing. I'd drop Hickie and play the only Irish player who looks like they are in any form in A Trimble ( 3 tries in last 3 internationals ). I'd keep Dempsey who had a decent game Saturday ahead of Murphy who as recently as the Italian match showed he cant defend. However Murphy should be coming on after 60 minutes in every game for a member of the back 3. Darcy and O Garas horrific form, is in my view, the catylst for our poor performance to date. We can make all the changes we like but if these 2 don't up the ante then we wouldn't beat France or Argentina. Sadly both are confidence players so it will be hard for them to turn it around.

I'd agree with Dinny on Quinlan. Again I dont overly rate him but he is a leader and tactically way more astute than many consider him. He should come in for Easterby. Thanks to EOS , we dont have an alternative No. 8 so Leamy has to stay there. He is making mistakes but at least he looks as if he wants the ball. To me he is patently not a no. 8 but a blind side flanker. If Wallace isn't fit enough for 80 minutes then we are better starting Best and bringing Wallace on. If he is fit , then I'd have Ferris on bench rather than Best as he gives more options and is way better with the ball than Best.

Its evident in the serious rugby poster posts here , that there is a huge frustration in EOS and his inability to change his first 15 over the last 12 months. We are now in a situation where the first 15 isn't working and we genuinely don't know whether the likes of Trimble , Murphy , Boss , Reddan, Ferris, Young , O Kelly, Quinlan or even Gleeson and Heaslip in Dublin would improve the team as some haven't got a prolonged chance , some no chance all of last season and some not at all.

I expect EOS to make the one enforced change at hooker and rely on his "first 15".I'd expect us to lose to France by more than 7 and then obviously whilst we could beat Argentina we certainly wouldn't score the 4 tries then necessary.

Was over for the match on sat, had a thoroughly enjoyable weekend! I really cant see Ireland winning either of the final two games. The players just dont seem condident on the pitch, alot of heads seemed to go down in second half. In the last 10mins there was a lot of arguing and finger pointing going on between players, especially when boss was playing his own game. I seen Hickie and darcy doing a serious amount of shouting towards the line.

QuoteDinny -- I'd agree with alot of what you post here on rugby matters but can't agree this morning. Firstly on Reddan . Yes he was 3rd choice effectively 3 seasons ago for Munster but he left . Yes he was 2nd choice at Wasps to Dawson 2 seasons ago but last season in the premiership where squad rotation is ripe , he was Wasps 1st choice in their big games and played consistently well(not just once) winning the European cup

He was practically the only fit scrum half at Wasps last season, Simon Amor was was brought in as 1st choice scrum-half last summer but spent most of the season injured. Any scrum half that cannot displace Tomas O'Leary in the pecking order has to be questioned, look I have seen enough of Reddan to doubt his ability at the top level. If he can retain the 9 jersey at Wasps this year that challenge should bring him on further....

O'Callagahan has been playing better than O'Connell, O'Connell has been poor he is not untouchable, O'Kelly has been fantastic for Ireland in the big games, he has at least 50/60 minutes in him, it makes no sense to retain a player clearly out of form. O'Connell is in the side on reputation only in the hope that he might actually do something...

Carney actually impressed in Argentina, as Liam Toland mentioned on TV he has that x-factor something we badly need, Trimble is not a bad option but he is imho an outside centre and not a winger.  We need Horgan, fit or not.

I agree on ROG and D'Arcy, ROG do has a badly off form Stringer, D'Arcy has no excuse, but a lot of the ball was either spotted or skipped on him, we have not played any pattern rugby at all, all will be revealed on Friday night..

And not for one moment do I think EOS will change his team....

Watched the French game on Setanta last night, Liam Toland is an excellent analyst.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6998582.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6998582.stm)



Reddan given shock Irish call-up
Wasps scrum-half Eoin Reddan
Wasps scrum-half Eoin Reddan starts against France
Wasps scrum-half Eoin Reddan has earned a shock call-up as one of three changes for Ireland's World Cup must-win Pool D game against France on Friday night.

Heineken Cup winner Reddan replaces Peter Stringer, with coach Eddie O'Sullivan giving him the nod over regular replacement Isaac Boss.

Andrew Trimble returns in place of Denis Hickie on the left wing.

O'Sullivan has resisted a cull up front, with Jerry Flannery's inclusion for injured Rory Best the only change.

There is still no place for the physicality of Neil Best, while Geordan Murphy has been surprisingly ushered from the bench altogether, with Gavin Duffy named as utility back.

The promotion of Reddan comes out of the blue and ends Stringer's long association with his Munster colleague Ronan O'Gara at half-back.

Stringer, with 79 caps, is Ireland's second most-capped player behind Malcolm O'Kelly, who is again named on the bench.

Reddan was the third choice coming into the World Cup - behind Stringer and Boss, who twice had limited time as a replacement in the games against Namibia and Georgia.

This will be the Limerick-born Reddan's fourth cap after making his debut as a replacement in the 2006 Six Nations game against France.

He made his first start during the summer tour to Argentina, where Ireland lost both Tests with a virtual reserve-strength side.

Reddan was with Munster twice and in between had a season with Connacht before being lured to London in 2005 by Warren Gatland, the former Ireland coach, who was then in charge of Wasps.

Ireland: Dempsey; Horgan, O'Driscoll, capt, D'Arcy, Trimble; O'Gara, Reddan; Horan, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Easterby, D Wallace, Leamy.
Replacements: Sheahan, S Best, O'Kelly, N Best, Boss, P Wallace, Duffy.

We will beat France.

Has Eddie O'Sullivan lost the plot completely?

Gavin Duffy on the bench in place of Geordan Murphy?

Some game to hand Reddan his first 'serious' cap. Hope he steps up. Best of luck to him.

But I can't understand the logic of starting him ahead of Boss or Duffy ahead of Murphy (on the bench).

The biggest shock is that Murphy is out of the 22. Unbelieveable.

Although maybe Duffy is included to provide an option at 12 if Darcy is having a nightmare.

I thought murphy should have started instead of going the other way. Does EOS want to win on Friday or what. Hard to believe we were 2nd favourites last nov when when we beat Aus and SA ! Some difference 12 months makes even though we were a few minutes from winning the Grand Slam

Dinny -- Friday will tell alot about Reddan. Lets hope he gets half the chance Stringer got over the years rather than just 60 minutes. Take your point on his CV in Munster but that was 2.5 years ago, he has progressed dramactically every year since. He should have been given a start in the last year with the full strength team to gauge whether he is real deal or not.Boss must be wondering what he did wrong in the 20 minutes he was on the pitch on Saturday. Simply think POC and DOC have moved way ahead of Malcolm at this stage. Can't fully get the hype about Carney. Personally didnt see any X Factor to date and I wouldn't have described him as impressive in Argentina. That said he was functional and in fairness didn't get much worthwhile ball to be impressive with.

Trimble coming in for Hickie was simply a form selection - how many other fringe players might have went past the incumbent if they got a couple of chances like Trimble fortunately got ?? Duffy on the bench is a reflection of Darcys poor form rather than anything Murphys' done wrong.

QuoteAlthough maybe Duffy is included to provide an option at 12 if Darcy is having a nightmare.

QuoteDuffy on the bench is a reflection of Darcys poor form rather than anything Murphys' done wrong.

That doesn't add up for me. If Darcy had to be replaced Trimble could go centre and Murphy on the wing. Nothing against Duffy, but his selection defies logic.

I think Murphy must've been caught with O'Sullivan's wife!

Seriously though I'm glad to see the changes O'Sullivan has made although there could've been a few more. Reddan couldn't be as bad as Stringer has been and Boss shouldn't be allowed on TV with a haircut like that.  Hickie has had a shocker so far while Trimble showed well in the Namibia game. Regardless of Best's injury I would've put Flannery in there anyway.

If I were picking the team I would've dropped Horgan and put in Murphy even though his defence is poor I think we'll need his creativity and it could maybe spark the rest into gear. I would also have dropped Wallace and Easterby in favour of Quinlan and Best, I think that Quinlan is suited well to the French game while Best for me is like our Chabal... throw him in to bash a few people up and maybe the rest of the forwards might follow suit and we can have them on the back foot!

As for the game on Friday... well who knows? I suppose it all depends on who turns up... the Ireland from the Autumn and the 6 nations or the Ireland post 6 nations. If it's the Ireland team from the Autumn and the 6 nations then I would fancy us to turn the French over and actually win well but it's all up in the air at this stage. What I do know is that if we don't beat the French we won't beat Argentina!

Jeez youse boys have short memories. Ye might want to have a look at the tape of Murphy's last competitive outing v the French.

For that matter Dinny would do well to dig out the tapes of MOK's performances against the same oppo.

It was always gonna come down to this game and i'm expecting a huge improvement on what's gone before, whether it'll be enough i'd doubt it.

QuoteJeez youse boys have short memories. Ye might want to have a look at the tape of Murphy's last competitive outing v the French.

He was poor against the French alright but Hickie has been poor against both Nambia and Georgia and Horgan was brutal the other night...  at least Murphy had his bad game against a top class opposition.

Quoteat least Murphy had his bad game against a top class opposition.

therein lies the crux screen, looks good against shite or when the game is won. Not a clutch player as the amerikens would say. sunshine footballer as I would say

Quote from: passedit on September 17, 2007, 03:18:55 PM

Quoteat least Murphy had his bad game against a top class opposition.

therein lies the crux screen, looks good against shite or when the game is won. Not a clutch player as the amerikens would say. sunshine footballer as I would say

Think thats a very harsh and unfair assesment of geordan murphy. Very surprised he has been left out - he is a player of massive quality and one Id like to see actually starting the french game. Other than that EOS changes are decent enough - but this 4 year contract thing is not turning out well. Performances like this will require england to be as bad as they were against the springboks, otherwise we will be looking at the wooden spoon in the 6 nations!

Regarding this perception that Murphy is a liability against the top teams because of his tackling...

If you go back to the video tape you will notice that he did enough good things against France to cancel out the missed tackle. Everyone blamed him for the France game. He was scapegoated and singled out by everyone and dropped by EOS.

Thing is...who was it that missed the tackle on the French player scoring the winning try? There were 2 lads. Who was responsible for not catching the kick-off which led to the try. If we had controlled the re-start - game over.

Also remember what Murphy did when he came on for Hickie in the first half against Wales.

Feck I sound like Mrs Murphy ;)

It could be worse lads, I was listening to Talksport earlier and they said Eddie O'Sullivan had brought in David Trimble to play on the wing

In my opinion i think that Geordan Murphys Ireland career is in tatters. With steady Eddie getting another 4 years and Murphy never gonna be one of his favourites i think its fair to say he will be forced out of the picture.
People go on about one missed tackle jaysus lads get over how many has the likes of O'Gara missed who has been repeatably targeted because of his poor tackling. Surely there is room in the team for him? i seriously cant believe he is out of the squad all together.

I am so pessimistic about our chances on friday. at the end of the day if we are beat we're gone! the best i think we can hope for is perhaps a bonus point loss and then maybe it will be game on against argentina.

Thing is...who was it that missed the tackle on the French player scoring the winning try? Best and Hickie ? There were 2 lads. Who was responsible for not catching the kick-off which led to the try. Leamy If we had controlled the re-start - game over.

Good to see Reddan given a chance. Stringer has been playing poorly for a while now even though his forwards haven't been giving him good service so far at the WC.

Very surprised to see Murphy drop out of the 22 altogether. Who's more likely to make an impact coming off the bench? Murphy or Duffy? It's a no brainer that one. That said Murphy tends to save his worst performances for France. He had an absolute nightmare in Paris 2 years ago and of course the shocking missed tackle in Croke Park. He is however far more likely to make something happen than Gavin Duffy.

To have any chance on Friday the forwards have to finally turn up at this WC. They got bullied at times by both Namibia and Georgia.

Whilst I agree that Stringer has been poor recently I find it a bit surprising that he has been left out of the squad of 22 completely. I would have thought it would have been useful to have the option to bring Stringer on for the last 15-20 mins of the game. Given the importance of the game on Friday night I think its a high risk strategy for EOS to break up such an established half back partnership of O'Gara and Stringer.

I suspect the dropping of Geordan Murphy from the squad could signal the end of his international career for Ireland. What a complete vote of no confidence by EOS when you consider that Murphy hasn't even kicked a ball in the competiton.

FermPundit, why would you bring on a player with 15-20 minutes to go who offers absolutely no impact? Will it take another 75 caps for people like you to realise that he has been pulling the wool over your eyes for the past decade? Stringer's limited game is one of the single biggest reasons why Ireland haven't delivered a grand slam in recent seasons.

I can't help but get the feeling that Ireland are just unfit at present. Wallace, D'Arcy, Horan, O'Driscoll, Leamy and Horgan all look like men who are finding their feet again after long absences (even if they aren't). They aren't sharp and they aren't focused. We simply cannot afford to carry that number of players into a game of this magnitude and at least half of them should have been rested.

And Dinny is right about O'Kelly. The best thing about big Malcolm in recent years is that when he has pulled on the Ireland shirt, it has been with a point to prove and he has generally been fired up and excellent. When he's in the right frame of mind, he's still Ireland's best second row.

As for Muphy, well I'm not that bothered. He has had umpteen chances in the past 5 years to nail down a place and all he has done is flatter to deceive. He may be a better option than Duffy, but that's besides the point, he doesn't deserve to be in a matchday 22 given his performances for Ireland.

I'm fully aware of the limitations of Stringers game but to drop him from the squad completely is risky. Yes, he hasn't performed in the world cup so far but you also need to consider that he's been playing behind a beaten pack in both games. Looking at other options at scrum half is needed, I just don't think the middle of the world cup is the time to be doing it.

Quote from: tyroneboi on September 17, 2007, 06:54:20 PM
In my opinion i think that Geordan Murphys Ireland career is in tatters. With steady Eddie getting another 4 years and Murphy never gonna be one of his favourites i think its fair to say he will be forced out of the picture.
People go on about one missed tackle jaysus lads get over how many has the likes of O'Gara missed who has been repeatably targeted because of his poor tackling. Surely there is room in the team for him? i seriously cant believe he is out of the squad all together.

I am so pessimistic about our chances on friday. at the end of the day if we are beat we're gone! the best i think we can hope for is perhaps a bonus point loss and then maybe it will be game on against argentina.

Unfortunately I think you are right.

Wobbler ...you could argue ireland lost 2 grandslams because stringer wasnt either picked or available. Before EOS Gatland picked guy easterbunny vs scots and Boss was SH v France this year.

To be honest, I am absolutely dumbfounded that Geordan Murphy has been excluded from the 22.
How anyone could put Gavin Duffy ahead of Murphy beggars belief. I have seen Duffy play quite a few times and he is a very limited player. Murphy on the other hand has talent to burn.His defence has at times been suspect but surely if you are looking for impact off the bench then he is the perfect player to have.

Andrew Trimble is another limited player.He is nowhere near as good as either Murphy or Hickie in my opinion.

I would agree with bringing Reddan into the team but again it goes to show the futility of having Boss on the bench in the first place. Surely if Reddan is your second choice scrum half then he should have been on the bench ahead of Boss all along?

I believe we have no chance on Friday.France will beat us with a bonus point which will effectively put us out of the competition before the Argy game. Depressing.

I am dreading the match on Friday. I'll have to watch but it's the way you watch a car crash or something like that. I really think it will be embarrassing. Could all 30 of them not claim their Granny's died and just go home. It would save the Nation the pain of watching them again.

Eddie O'Sullivan has taken a gamble no doubt in regards to dropping Murphy, but he had the option of selecting a player who cost Ireland the Grand Slam and whose defensive shortcomings, and his inability to take correct decisions in high pressure situations have been well documented, or dropping him. I'd havbe dropped him too.

It's obvious EOS doesn't trust Murphy, so it's not altogether surprising. If Ireland don't turn things around sharpish he'll be hung out to dry by the media so he felt he had to do something

Rugby is a funny old game, is this the first time a guy gets dropped and he did not even play a game

QuoteEddie O'Sullivan has taken a gamble no doubt in regards to dropping Murphy, but he had the option of selecting a player who cost Ireland the Grand Slam and whose defensive shortcomings, and his inability to take correct decisions in high pressure situations have been well documented, or dropping him. I'd havbe dropped him too.

Absolute rubbish, Murphy made a very high profile error in that match but it he also made a try saving intervention in the same game, but then it was Murphy who missed those tackles at the end and it was also Murphy who failed to claim the re-start. Not to mention Murphy's cameo against Wales  ::)

Murphy is the ideal impact sub, in fact he is a better winger than Trimble. O'Sullivan and Murphy don't see eye to eye, the fact that O'Sullivan publicly spoke out in the manner that he did has to be the worst piece of man-management I have seen in a long time. Duffy is an average player who play sub-standard rugby last year and no one can understand why he is in the World Cup squad. It's not a disaster that Murphy's not in the squad but the reason's given are an absolute joke, it looks like all players are equal but some are more equal than others..

Anyway as for the team selection, it's a strange one, Reddan goes from number 3 to number one having never started a 6 nations game, Stringer on the bench would make no sense as he has no impact and can only cover scrum-half, Boss covers full-back and wing as well so that's straight forward. Best and Quinlan most be disappointed, dropping Hickiie is akin to dropping the corner forward after your midfield was cleaned out.

Anyway I have to be optimistic going to Paris so I think we have a chance, France are very out of sorts and will be missing key players, Friday will come to which team is not afraid to lose...

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 18, 2007, 09:33:03 AM

Quote

Anyway I have to be optimistic going to Paris so I think we have a chance, France are very out of sorts and will be missing key players, Friday will come to which team is not afraid to lose...

Well going by last Saturdays preformance losing would not bother Ireland in the slightest  ::)

did anyone else pick up on what neil francis said about Hickey retiring, more or less along the lines of him 'having' to retire, i think he said it wasnt his place to say. It there something big about to come out after the world cup?

It now seems like a funny decision the irfu extending Eddie o' Sullivan's contract before the World Cup. Some of the decisions he is now making look like that of desperation. I think that we may have peaked too early this year hopefully i will be proved wrong  but i don't think so certainly not if the last 2 games are anything to go by.

Quotedid anyone else pick up on what neil francis said about Hickey retiring, more or less along the lines of him 'having' to retire, i think he said it wasnt his place to say. It there something big about to come out after the world cup?

It's done the rounds, allegedly Hickie and Chekia don't get on and Hickie was hoping a new Leinster coach would be appointed. So it's nothing new just another Leinster player doesn't get on with coach shocker... :o

cheers for that dinny, bit more harmless than i thought it was but i do have a fairly active imagination

Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

Why EA havent put any effort into this title is beyond me

Quote from: Gnevin on September 18, 2007, 03:56:23 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

Why EA havent put any effort into this title is beyond me

So did you buy it?

Scotland 7-0 Romania

Try and conversion by Patterson

10 minutes in

Try Scotland, Hogg. Converted by Paterson

Scotland 14 - 0 Romaina

Try Scotland, Lament. Converted by Patterson.

Scotland 21 - 0 Romaina

Half Time

Scotland 28 - 0 Romania

Scotland 35 - 0 Romania

Full time

Scotland 42 - 0 Romania.

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

No but I heard it's shite laoislad.  Well, i've the 06 one and although it's not great, it's fun.  But I've to stop myself throwing the control through the tv sometimes.  The 08 is suppose to be a lot like it - the 07 one is actually coming out later this year???  Very strange.
I'd get the 06 one, should be cheap enough now.  Don't be expecting too much but you get into it.

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 04:38:40 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on September 18, 2007, 03:56:23 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

Why EA havent put any effort into this title is beyond me

So did you buy it?

Its only out for the ps 2 and its basicly Rugby 05/06 what ever last one was  with updated teams so no

A question that I would like to ask is if O'Sullivan has such a poor opinion of Murphy, why did he select him on the World Cup squad in the first place.  Should he not have left him at home.  It is curious.

Quote from: Onlooker on September 19, 2007, 12:15:29 AM
A question that I would like to ask is if O'Sullivan has such a poor opinion of Murphy, why did he select him on the World Cup squad in the first place.  Should he not have left him at home.  It is curious.

I agree, if the had no intention of playing him he should have left him where he was.

Mental rumours circulating from the Irish camp, seemingly O'Gara has a done a Quinlan and has massive gambling debts as reported by L'Equipe but has either a) been bailed out by the IRFU or B) Jp McManus  :o

Also I can confirm that Murphy didn't have a head to head with O'Sullivan and was just dropped and will not be leaving the camp anytime soon...

Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 18, 2007, 10:45:56 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

No but I heard it's shite laoislad.  Well, i've the 06 one and although it's not great, it's fun.  But I've to stop myself throwing the control through the tv sometimes.  The 08 is suppose to be a lot like it - the 07 one is actually coming out later this year???  Very strange.
I'd get the 06 one, should be cheap enough now.  Don't be expecting too much but you get into it.

Lads its sad to say but over 10 years on from its release Jona Lomu Rugby for the PS1 is still easily the best Rugby game ever realised.

Quote from: Galwaybhoy on September 19, 2007, 09:32:42 AM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 18, 2007, 10:45:56 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 18, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Anyone buy EA Sports Rugby 2008? For Playstation

No but I heard it's shite laoislad.  Well, i've the 06 one and although it's not great, it's fun.  But I've to stop myself throwing the control through the tv sometimes.  The 08 is suppose to be a lot like it - the 07 one is actually coming out later this year???  Very strange.
I'd get the 06 one, should be cheap enough now.  Don't be expecting too much but you get into it.

Lads its sad to say but over 10 years on from its release Jona Lomu Rugby for the PS1 is still easily the best Rugby game ever realised.

Totally agree! Lomu rugby was and is Awesome!

QuoteMental rumours circulating from the Irish camp, seemingly O'Gara has a done a Quinlan and has massive gambling debts as reported by L'Equipe but has either a) been bailed out by the IRFU or B) Jp McManus

Alledgedly an all in punch up as well. They'll beat France by twenty points at this rate of going.

I'm off to Paris on Friday for the game. Stay there til Sunday and we get a camper van to Munich for 2 days of Oktoberfest, after which which we head to South of France for a few nights and intend getting back to Paris for the Argies game. Originally I was nervous about qualifying but that has changed to a "nothing to lose"
attitude due to the shocking ineptitude of our 2 games to date.
O'Gara has been struggling for a while now, due to his personal life, hadnt heard about the gambling rumours.

Quote from: MauriceMalpas on September 19, 2007, 10:49:57 AM
I'm off to Paris on Friday for the game. Stay there til Sunday and we get a camper van to Munich for 2 days of Oktoberfest, after which which we head to South of France for a few nights and intend getting back to Paris for the Argies game. Originally I was nervous about qualifying but that has changed to a "nothing to lose"
attitude due to the shocking ineptitude of our 2 games to date.
O'Gara has been struggling for a while now, due to his personal life, hadnt heard about the gambling rumours.

Sounds like a great trip Maurice - you should have some crack. Hope you enjoy it.

Is there any substance to any of these rumours of fights and gambling debts, or is it all the usual rubbish that's spread around?

Maybe the French press heard of the BBC story where a top Irish place kicker, who has broke all scoring records in the past, has admitted to massive gambling debts that have cleared by unnamed people close to his Governing sporting body.

They read the story, the English translator was on his day off, they put 2 & 2 together and decided it had to be O'Gara and released the story. "Que est Oisin McConville???"  ;D

 ;D

Clever Bingobus  ;D

Quote from: 5iveTimes on September 19, 2007, 01:08:23 PM
France centre Yannick Jauzion has been left on the bench for his side's make-or-break World Cup Pool D clash against Ireland in Paris.   

 
Les Bleus selectors keep faith with the midfield partnership of David Marty and Damien Traille, who started in France`s 87-10 demolition of Namibia.

Sebastien Chabal gets the nod over Lionel Nallet for the second-row berth alongside the recalled Jerome Thion.
But Thion`s regular partner Fabien Pelous has been ruled out of the game with a knee injury.

Raphael Ibanez has recovered from a throat injury to captain the side from hooker, replacing Dimitri Szarzewski.

Ibanez will pack down in the front row with the recalled Olivier Milloud and Pieter De Villiers.

In the back row, Thierry Dusautoir and Julien Bonnaire have kept their places while there is a recall for Serge Betsen, who comes in for Yannick Nyanga.

Thats quite a bit off France's best 15, so we may have a chance, a small one, but a chance none the less of pulling off an upset based on current form.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 19, 2007, 08:36:13 AM
Also I can confirm that Murphy didn't have a head to head with O'Sullivan and was just dropped and will not be leaving the camp anytime soon...

And you believe that?
You believe that any rugby coach could think Duffy is better than Murphy?

If, God forbid, D'Arcy or O'Driscoll get injured, I'd nearly prefer to see Wallace moved into the back line than Duffy!

QuoteAnd you believe that?

Actually that's from the horses mouth.

QuoteYou believe that any rugby coach could think Duffy is better than Murphy?

Eh, where did I say that, strange comment to make  ???

Good old Laporte he never lets you down! How can he play Marty and not Jauzion? Lost count how many times Marty knocked on against namibia. If he could have held on to the ball they won have broken the 100 point mark easily.
Probably score three tries against us now! :-\

Quote from: bingobus on September 19, 2007, 11:23:08 AM
Maybe the French press heard of the BBC story where a top Irish place kicker, who has broke all scoring records in the past, has admitted to massive gambling debts that have cleared by unnamed people close to his Governing sporting body.

They read the story, the English translator was on his day off, they put 2 & 2 together and decided it had to be O'Gara and released the story. "Que est Oisin McConville???"  ;D

Oisin's a better kicker than O'Gara!

Just got this in an Email....
Of course this is all without basis and totally unfounded,you will all probably get it tomorrow in your in-box.... ;)

From the IRFU
I haven't heard a bit about Stringer and Murphy yet but this is what I've been told so far.


The team are pissed off with O'Sullivan en masse for being too
conservative and there is dissention in the ranks about players not
being given time on the pitch. Apparently they have been for while

O'Gara & Stringer have not spoken for a few yrs

O'Driscoll is running the show out there now and insisted that Reddin be
started and should have been in the team for the past 12 months

O'Gara was caught in bed with his wifes sister and not for the first
time :o
She was taking him to the cleaners but JP McManus has stepped in to stop
it going public and is looking after her financially - no mention of
Rog's gambling debts ;D

O'Sullivan hates Geordan Murphy period and was forced to bring him

Trimble is in ahead of GM because of Ulster representation with Best out

Hickie had to declare his retirement pre world cup due to some venture
post world cup

TAKEN FROM www.impartialreporter.com (http://www.impartialreporter.com)
It is the local paper in fermanagh and as McGurn is the fitness guru they have been doing a weekly section with him.  Here's what he had to say

QuoteMickey McGurn has rubbished claims that the Irish team are either under-prepared or over-trained after the hard fought manner of the wins over Namibia and Georgia have left question marks over their credentials to be one of the main players at the tournament.


Speaking ahead of Ireland's titanic clash with hosts France in Paris on Friday, the Irish Strength and Fitness conditioner dismissed the claims.

"Granted, we have played way below expectations and we realise a lot of people in the media and at home are taking a pop at us, but we have 30 players busting themselves over here to get it right," explains Mickey.

"We are not, as has been quoted, over-trained or are we under-prepared. This is the best conditioned and fittest Irish team to ever play in a world tournament.

The players have not gone out to deliberately perform badly and they are as frustrated as everyone else that the performance on the pitch is not up to the usual standard."

Despite the negativity surrounding the opening two performances, Mickey says that little has really changed in terms of the dynamic of the group and the qualification permutations.

"We always knew before the tournament started we would have to beat France and Argentina to progress past the group stages and that has not changed. We are now in knockout mode and we know that if we lose we will be coming home. But, in saying that, our destiny is in our own hands at this stage and we are looking forward to the France game,"

Mickey admits that there has been a fair bit of reflection by the players in the wake of the displays against Namibia and Georgia.

"There has been a lot of soul searching and self evaluation over the last two games and everyone involved in the set up are doing their utmost to ensure this team kicks-on and produces the quality rugby it is capable of."

And, no better place than in Paris, tomorrow (Friday) with a game against France that had assumed critical proportions two weeks into the tournament, especially after France's opening day defeat to Argentina.

Eddie O'Sullivan has rung the changes with Eoin Reddan, Andrew Trimble and Jerry Flannery coming into the starting line-up and Mickey reveals that the mood in the camp is positive.

"The mood in the camp is good, after all we have won two out of two. Training has been going really well, we have looked sharp and focused, and maybe this allowed us to hang in at the end of the Georgia game where previous Irish teams may have crumbled under a similar onslaught," he concludes.

Sport's fine line between success and failure will be readily evident in Paris with the winner of Friday's encounter sure to tackle the rest of the tournament with renewed confidence and vigour while the vanquished will be left to lick possibly fatal wounds.

Much then at stake and much to play for with Ireland, McGurn and the fans looking for the spark that will ignite the level of performance that was readily evident throughout the Six Nations.

They say form is temporary, class is permanent. Tomorrow night will tell the tale.

Ireland are 4/1 to beat France. Are they worth a £?

Did anyone watch the setanta rugby program last night where they interviewed eddie o sullivan and then at the end the presenter told eddie we have someone here who wants to sent you there best wishes for the game and they played a video of Ian Paisley wishing eddie and the boys all the best. I couldnt believe it, eddie didnt know what to do...

Edddie and a few selected heads out of the squad have been doing alot of talking this week about morale in the camp, newspaper articles, recent performances etc etc.  I dont know about most of the rugby heads on here, but I have a pain in my hole listening to it.  Talk is cheap and its about f**king time that the "best prepared" team in the history of Irish rugby gave us a performance.  The way things are going to date, this world cup may yet leave 1999's effort looking decent !!! 

In the words of Ciaran Fitzgelald "Where's your f**king pride".........

C'mon IRELAND.........

O gara useless
Lineout useless
Dozens of unforeced errors
Penalty's give away like they where going out of fashion
Wrong team picked for the last year
Redden miles better than stringer has been in years

Quote from: Davitt Man on September 21, 2007, 09:03:05 AM
Did anyone watch the setanta rugby program last night where they interviewed eddie o sullivan and then at the end the presenter told eddie we have someone here who wants to sent you there best wishes for the game and they played a video of Ian Paisley wishing eddie and the boys all the best. I couldnt believe it, eddie didnt know what to do...

Did they show him Martin McGuinness wishing "Eddie O'Brien" well? Surely he was taking the piss? :D

Simple line-outs a complete disaster.

Quote from: 5iveTimes on September 21, 2007, 11:52:10 PM
I see Connor Murphy had a very good seat tonight. I wonder was he impressed with the "anthem", then again he is in the pay of the British.

The shaggin' anthem is the least of their problems.

Typical Irish performance. The scrum suddenly was actually very good (bar one dodgy one) while the lineout was a complete shambles. Our lineout has been awful against the French for a few years now. They must have worked out some of the calls. When Chabal is winning them against the throw you know something is wrong.

Either way too many players underperforming. Or not performing at all.

Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 22, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

THe Haka and the Sipi Tau are both awesome!

NZ and Tonga met in the 2003 World Cup and this is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4&mode=related&search

Some way top start a match eh?

Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2007, 01:28:41 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 22, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

THe Haka and the Sipi Tau are both awesome!

NZ and Tonga met in the 2003 World Cup and this is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4&mode=related&search

Some way top start a match eh?

Cheers that answers my question so  :)

Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2007, 01:28:41 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 22, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

THe Haka and the Sipi Tau are both awesome!

NZ and Tonga met in the 2003 World Cup and this is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4&mode=related&search

Some way top start a match eh?

sure beats irelands fall sorry i mean irelands call >:(

Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 22, 2007, 02:25:48 PM

Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2007, 01:28:41 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 22, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

THe Haka and the Sipi Tau are both awesome!

NZ and Tonga met in the 2003 World Cup and this is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4&mode=related&search

Some way top start a match eh?

sure beats irelands fall sorry i mean irelands call >:(

Maybe we could have them Irish dancing?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 22, 2007, 02:45:13 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 22, 2007, 02:25:48 PM

Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2007, 01:28:41 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 22, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

THe Haka and the Sipi Tau are both awesome!

NZ and Tonga met in the 2003 World Cup and this is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4&mode=related&search

Some way top start a match eh?

sure beats irelands fall sorry i mean irelands call >:(

Maybe we could have them Irish dancing?

aye pog maybe to  riverdance  :) inspiring stuff

Tonga - England on Friday night..... maybe England will be out of the world cup before Ireland.....

Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 22, 2007, 02:45:13 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 22, 2007, 02:25:48 PM

Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2007, 01:28:41 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on September 22, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Watching South Africa v Tonga
Tonga done their version of The Haka before the match just wondered what happens when they play New Zealand?
Do they both do their respective Hakas at the same time or what?

THe Haka and the Sipi Tau are both awesome!

NZ and Tonga met in the 2003 World Cup and this is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4&mode=related&search

Some way top start a match eh?

sure beats irelands fall sorry i mean irelands call >:(

Maybe we could have them Irish dancing?

Or maybe they could all do the Birdie song

or they could just line up and swamp 15 pints of Guinness and start shouting go on ya good thing at each other

We've come for pay, we've come to cower,
Come to be dour and be boring.
We have come to fumble and drop the ball
From the four paid franchises of Ireland.

Ireland, Ireland, we've neither guts nor balls.
Shoulder to shoulder, we'll stumble, trip and fall.
We'll stumble trip and fall.

I suppose we can be happy ROG doesn't have a poncey stand before kicking.

Quote from: Hardy on September 22, 2007, 03:32:14 PM
We've come for pay, we've come to cower,
Come to be dour and be boring.
We have come to fumble and drop the ball
From the four paid franchises of Ireland.

Ireland, Ireland, we've neither guts nor balls.
Shoulder to shoulder, we'll stumble, trip and fall.
We'll stumble trip and fall.

Excellent! ;D

Probably been asked before but if ireland beat argentina with a bonus point do they go through? is it point difference or what?

just found out lads:

At the completion of the pool phase, the Teams in a pool are ranked one through five
based on their cumulative Match points, and identified respectively as winner, runner
up, third, fourth and fifth.

If at the completion of the pool phase two or more Teams are level on Match points,
then the following criteria shall be used in the following order until one of the Teams
can be determined as the higher ranked:

i. The winner of the Match in which the two tied Teams have played each other
shall be the higher ranked;

ii. The Team which has the best difference between points scored for and points
scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked;

iii. The Team which has the best difference between tries scored for and tries
scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked;

iv. The Team which has scored most points in all its pool Matches shall be the
higher ranked;

v. The Team which has scored most tries in all its pool Matches shall be the
higher ranked;

vi. Should the tie be unresolved at the conclusion of steps (i) through (v), the Team
that is higher ranked in the updated Official IRB World Rankings on October 1,
2007.

Unlikely we will do it but stranger things have happened. The Munster boys have shown they can do it in the past - they have to step up to the plate now!!

Its Argentina 32 - 3 Namibia with 51 minutes played. The Argies already have their 4 tries and thus the bonus point.

With Argentina clinching the bonus point against Namibia we now need to beat Argentina by at least eight points and score four tries. I suspect nether will happen.

44-3 depressing how good we made this team look

Quote from: dec on September 22, 2007, 09:10:27 PM
With Argentina clinching the bonus point against Namibia we now need to beat Argentina by at least eight points and score four tries. I suspect nether will happen.

I'd say Argentina scoring four tries and beating us by eight points would be more like it!

Hopefully anyway, we're embarrassed enough without playing the All Blacks!

Really down. I felt we had a chance at the start. Now i am not sure we are in the top 10 in the world. >:(

Quote from: hoopsaaa on September 22, 2007, 10:28:13 PM
Really down. I felt we had a chance at the start. Now i am not sure we are in the top 10 in the world. >:(

I agree and in Rugby top 10 ain't saying much.

QuoteWe've come for pay, we've come to cower,
Come to be dour and be boring.
We have come to fumble and drop the ball
From the four paid franchises of Ireland.

Ireland, Ireland, we've neither guts nor balls.
Shoulder to shoulder, we'll stumble, trip and fall.
We'll stumble trip and fall.

Says it all. Irrefutable.

Hardy, you are a bit of a genius.

Very good Hardy  :)

As for the match itself, I haven't seen it on TV yet but from within the stadium it looked like Ireland's inability to score in the oppostion 22 was our biggest downfall that and every time France came into ours they came away with points on the board.

As for Eddie O'Sullivan I think I've made my opinions on this fraud well known, he is a limited coach who's only contibution to Irish rugby was to get the professional set-up organised, he hasn't helped develop any players and his inability to use a bench is criminal. He is a joke and should be removed immediately post-WC.

As for the players, they don't set out the game plan or pick the team but Eddie O'Sullivan created a them and us divide in the squad and moral cannot have been good which clearly showed on the pitch. IMHO only O'Driscoll can hold his head high, he is our only true class act and is a pity we don't have 14 more, our line-out failed miserably and O'Connell who again was poor has to take responsibilty for that, it was a shambles. O'Gara, Horgan and D'Arcy all need to be dropped, forme has completely deserted them. All in all we have nothing to lose against Argentina, I'd make sweeping changes, go for broke and at least show some pride and passion. My team to face Argentina...

15. Murphy
14. Carney
13. Trimble
12. O'Driscoll
11. Hickie
10. Wallace
9. Reddan
8. Easterby
7. Quinaln
6. Best
5. O'Kelly
4. O'Callaghan
3. Horan
2. Flannery
1. Hayes

For the record I was impressed by Reddan considering the service he got, might just change my mind on him yet...

O'Driscoll injury scare for Irish 

Brian O'Driscoll was forced off during training in Bordeaux
Ireland captain Brian O'Driscoll is an injury concern for the crunch World Cup clash with Argentina on Sunday.
The Leinster centre limped off during Monday's training session after taking a bang on his right knee.

Munster hooker Jerry Flannery is also a worry after suffering a neck injury in a heavy collision with Simon Best.

Fly-half Ronan O'Gara (calf) and full-back Girvan Dempsey (collarbone) sat out training with injuries picked up in Friday's 25-3 defeat by France.

Flannery was floored by the impact with Ulster hooker Best before returning to his feet several minutes later.

An ice pack was placed over his neck and he took no further part in the session in Bordeaux.

Ireland coach Eddie O'Sullivan names his team for the Paris showdown with Argentina at lunchtime on Tuesday.

The Irish will have to score four tries and beat Argentina by more than seven points in their final match to reach the quarter-finals.

The defeat by France followed unconvincing wins over Namibia and Georgia in Pool D.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are probably fecked anyway, but if this is the case, then theres probably no chance !!

A much improved but still very poor showing on friday night. O'Sullivan plainly put the wrng team on the pitch and even more glaringly made no changes within a timeframe that could have an effect.

for example, when the lineout wasn't functioning, why was o'kelly not introduced. granted, he's not world class with the ball in hand but if we can't get any possession at line out time then noone is going to have the ball in hand! timble was out of his depth on the wing, but he's still better than duffy.  a major selection fcuk up. in trimble's defence, it is obviously a tactical policy for the blindside wing to come off his wing and into the defensive line and not a decision he made in real time. ireland have done this consistently and gotte away with it.

I'm not sure what should be done about d'arcy. i'm firmly of the opinion that he's a class act out of form. we badly need him to hit his straps pronto. the problem is, the last time i saw him in this sort of dip was on the lions trip to new zeland and he never came out of it during that tour. maybe its best to leave him on the bench. The back row have been shocking in this tournament and personly i'd love to see a back row now that has heaslip and jennings.

i agree with dinny. there's nothing to lose and a team must be selected which shows intent to take the argentinians on and have a go. i don't agree with dropping o'gara however asthere is no alternative. wallace just isn't good enough. i'd go with

15. Dempsey
14. Carney
13. Horgan
12. O'Driscoll
11. Hickie
10. ROG
9. Reddan
8. Easterby
7. Quinlan
6. Best
5. O'Kelly
4. POC
3. Horan
2. Flannery
1. Hayes

that gives us the impetus of murphy, d'arcy, trimble, o'callaghan and wallace off the bench at the right times. much as i'd like to agre with starting murphy at 15, the argies will send up a lot of bombs early on and dempsey is the right man to deal with. if w can get ahead, a final 30 minute onslought after emptying that bench to cut loose could get the job done.

I thought the bull had an outstanding game on friday night by the way.

Jaysus Dinny,

I just saw you put Quinlan on the team? Has it come to that? For my money Quinlan and Best may be exactly what that back row needs, a bit of fire in the bellies and a lunatic edge, but I never thought I'd see the day where you'd agree :D

It's quite depressing really when you think of it, but sure lookit, remember the Gloucester game at Thomond Park. If the Argies pick Henry Paul at full back we are grand.

Everyone seems to be forgetting Stephen Ferris in backrow as an option. In this kind of game , I'd have him ahead of Neil Best where we have to be creative with ball. My backrow would be 6. Easterby . 7. Quinlan and 8. Ferris with Wallace on the bench. With POC and MOK as 2nd rows along with Quinlan and easterby ay least we should be guaranteed line out ball.

whilst all the media are congratulating themselves over how they all knew Trimble was better than Hickie , I dont hear too many admitting than on Fridays performance R Best is now a better hooker than Flannery. Flannerys linout throwing was a passable impression of Steve Thompson  on Friday night.

What time team due to be announced ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/7012164.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/7012164.stm)
Murphy in for the injured Dempsey
Geordan Murphy
Geordan Murphy comes in for his first World Cup start
Argentina v Ireland
Parc des Princes
Sunday, 30 September
Kick-off: 1600 BST
Live coverage on BBC Radio 5live, Radio Ulster MW & the BBC Sport website

Injured full-back Girvan Dempsey is out of Ireland's crunch game with Argentina on Sunday with Geordan Murphy called-up for his first World Cup start.

Coach Eddie O'Sullivan has not panicked into making a raft of changes although he brings in Denis Hickie for Andrew Trimble on the left wing.

O'Sullivan has not tinkered with the pack but there is a worry over the injury to Jerry Flannery's shoulder.

Rory Best, however, could be forced into a quicker than expected return.

Best fractured his thumb against Georgia and was expected to be ruled out of the remaining Pool D games.

However, the Ulster hooker could be called upon if Flannery's injury does not fully recover.

Dempsey received his injury during the defeat by France last Friday, and was ruled out on Monday evening.

It gives the unlucky Murphy a chance to show his potency on the world stage.

His only other appearance during this World Cup was a 30-second cameo in Ireland's Lethargic win over Namibia.

He was controversially dropped from the 22-man squad for the French game with Gavin Duffy brought onto the bench. Duffy now makes way for Trimble who can cover centre and wing.

This could well be Hickie's final international game as he is due to retire following the World Cup.

Ireland need to score four or more tries against Argentina and defeat them by more than seven points to go through to the quarter-final stage.

Argentina have so far not had their line crossed during the present campaign and officially have the most miserly defence in the tournament.

Ireland: Murphy; Horgan, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Hickie; O'Gara, Reddan; Horan, A N Other, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Easterby, D. Wallace, Leamy.
Replacements: A N Other, S Best, O'Kelly, N Best, Boss, P Wallace, A Trimble.

QuoteJaysus Dinny,

I just saw you put Quinlan on the team? Has it come to that? For my money Quinlan and Best may be exactly what that back row needs, a bit of fire in the bellies and a lunatic edge, but I never thought I'd see the day where you'd agree

Ah AZ, I'm not blinkered I know Quinlans strengths, I just think his weaknesses out weight them but we had nothing to lose and his aggressive in your face attitude is the right way to play the Argies, not that it matters after that team selection, unbeliveable..

IRFU must be delighted with the return on their investment in carney.

Ain't too many impact subs on that bench.

great to see eddie throwing caution to the wind  :-\

i wonder what team he'd pick if he had to get out of the group to save his job?

Looks like Flannery's carrying the can for the lineout debacle. I'd say they're waiting on Best's fitness not his.

That's a bit unreal alright. I think Eddie is pinning all his hopes that his nominal best XVwill somehow find the spark, but I can't see it happening. To leave the lads we've been talking about off the bench as well is just crazy in my opinion.

As for the people being hard on Flannery, I think the problem there is that he has simply not had game time, and our lineout movement is very static at the moment. Flannery is good in the loose, and is a good lineout thrower, but that area is one where you need constant repitition, and it's no surprise to me that he's a bit wild at the moment, seeing as how he's been second choice for a good while, which I feel is wrong. Ironically the Irish scrum, seen as Rory's forte, was grand on Friday, apart from one 8 v 7 shove.

I'd still have Flannery ahead of Best, based on impact with the ball, and balancing out the set pieces. But I don't know that I would pick him now, because I'd prefer a hooker that is used to the lineout at the moment, and Best is that man.

Sad to say it, but I'm nearly hoping the Munster contingent just escape this mess without any more damage to morale/confidence or body. Obviously I hope Ireland can pull it off, but I can't see it, so on the basis that they won't, I hope the Munster lads come home in a fit state physically and mentally, to put up a big season in the red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_nxzQOhbXM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_nxzQOhbXM)

Suprised this hasn't made it to this thread yet.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 25, 2007, 12:07:27 PM
That's a bit unreal alright. I think Eddie is pinning all his hopes that his nominal best XVwill somehow find the spark, but I can't see it happening. To leave the lads we've been talking about off the bench as well is just crazy in my opinion.

He's been doing that for 2 years but everyone seemed to be happy under achieving in the six nations as our focus was on the world cup

Lads was just wondering what anybody thought about a bet with the England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales not to qulaify for the quarters.  I heard odds last night of about 150/1.  Would this be a good bet??  Anybody any way of getting a confirmed price for this??

Quote from: FermGael on September 25, 2007, 01:01:11 PM
Lads was just wondering what anybody thought about a bet with the England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales not to qulaify for the quarters.  I heard odds last night of about 150/1.  Would this be a good bet??  Anybody any way of getting a confirmed price for this??

No teams to qualify for quarter finals  200/1   
1 Team to qualify for the quarter finals  12/1   
2 Teams to qualify for the quarter finals  11/8   
3 Teams to qualify for the quarter finals  5/6   
4 Teams to qualify for the quarter finals  9/1


Odds from Ladbrokes
Wouldnt fancy your chances fermgael :-\

i see hickie and murphy are in, in place of trimble and dempsey (inj). Pack stays the same with hooker been left open to see if best and flannery recovers

I see this is the highest a Munster man was lifted during our WC campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vlw_B2kmQ&eurl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vlw_B2kmQ&eurl)

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
I see this is the highest a Munster man was lifted during our WC campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vlw_B2kmQ&eurl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vlw_B2kmQ&eurl)

Hugging, handshaking and kissing in the bogs and not a hand  washed or dried!!!  :o  :o

Got this email today:
Let me not hear ye mention Irish Rugby ever again after that farce on Friday night by that shower of luadramahns. Ye are going around here wearing Rugby jerseys, planning trips to Twickenham, Cardiff, Murrayfield, etc. and talking about Connacht and Munster Rugby, Heinek e n Cups, Triple Crowns, Grand Slams and being swept away by this pre tournament hype and optimism which is totally misplaced. The harsh facts of reality are that we have not won a Grand Slam in the modern era whereas England, Scotland, Wales and France have achieved here and those same four countries will all advance from the group stages while our shower will be taking a Ryanair flight back to Dublin next Sunday night. So come out of the fog and get realistic, we need to beat Argentina by 7 points and score four tries. We could only score five tries against a shower of amadans from Namibia who only took up rugby before the Christmas and a 2nd string Georgian pub side so what chance have we against the Argentinians.

As regards Friday night, I don't know where to start with our green clad troupe of mis-fits. We have only managed to fluke one win in 35 years in Paris and defeat for the Irish was never in doubt this time from the moment I saw our shower in the tunnel. They reminded me of nothing more than cattle going down the line below in Kepak, Athleague such was the expression of fear on their faces and where has this crying lark come from? That's the second time I have seen Flannery and Hayes balling their eyes out.  If this shite keeps up, we'll end up being sponsored by Kleenex.

To only score three points from a drop goal and rarely threaten the French 22 is a sad state of affairs. There's a saying in French "a coeur vaillaint rien d'impossible" which translates into "nothing is impossible to a willing heart" well from the muck I saw last Friday night from our overpaid and so called professional Rugby team, their hearts will need to be very willing if they are to have any chance against the Argentinains next Sunday.


Ireland Team Ratings

Girvan Dempsey
Full-Back: 2
We would be as well off with Ian Dempsey from TodayFM. Looked really impressive during the singing of "Ireland's Call" but looked out of sorts by the throw-in. Where was he for Clerc's inspirational try, nowhere to be found except looking up bewildered and dazed as the ball went over his head, the sort of look you see on the faces of the people on the Angelus before the 6.1 news.


Shane Horgan
Right Wing: 1
Just back from injury and clearly short of match practice, he'd need a couple of prods with the electric cattle prodder to get any movement out of him.

Brian O'Driscoll
Centre: 1
This fancy dan has failed to deliver on the big occasion once again.....another false dawn. Scored a couple of tries seven years ago in Paris and has lived on this ever since  but never got a look in this time.  We read more about this fella's injuries, how he gets speared (whatever that is) and after every game, there's a big hoo hah about how O'Driscoll was "taken out of it". This man is codding us all because we refuse to see that behind the swagger and the fancy D4 accent, the man is only a bluffer. He doesn't cod the opposition though.



Gordon D'Arcy
Centre: 2
What the hell has happened to this lad who promised so much with his jinking and swerving runs in attack. Looked more like it was Ray D'Arcy in that jersey last Friday night.

Andrew Trimble
Left Wing: 2
They say Trimble says a few decades of the rosary before each game, well this fella will need to visit Lourdes this week as he needs a miracle. Jumping around the last day like a big Clydesdale lost in the bog with no method at all. Took a good pass from Reddan at one stage where we had good possession but then clattered into the referee and we lost the ball. Clearly not good enough for International rugby. Surely there must be some FAS scheme around the place more suitable to this fella's talents.

Ronan O'Gara
Out-Half: 2
This fella has lost the plot altogether, don't know what's bothering him but it's clearly affecting his game and another rubbish performance. One analyst in the papers on Sat
Said "his kicking game, possibly down to the unfamiliar ball, was below par". What sort of raimeas is this? I don't see any difference between one rugby ball and the next, they all look the same to me.

Eoin Reddan
Scrum-Half: 5
The only one to come out of this shambles with any degree of credibility and a much better choice than the other clown. Directed traffic well and not afraid to bark the orders.

Marcus Horan
Loosehead Prop: 4
Did a lot of mullocking around like an ass scuffling through turnips but always kept clear of the contact areas. Nearly gave away a try to the French after a bad dropped ball.

Jerry Flannery
Hooker: 2
How this man was picked from the start and not substituted during the first chorus of  "Ireland's call" will forever remain one of the great mysteries of team selection. Any man balling his eyes out before the match is not in a correct mental state to start a match of this magnitude.

John Hayes
Tighthead Prop: 2
It's well time to give this fella the curly finger. You'd need a quad bike and an ifor Williams trailor to ferry this fella around the pitch. He's like a big Case 195 tractor, big and powerful but no good at changing out turf from a soft bank. Continually getting stuck, pulling and dragging with no method at all.

Donncha O'Callaghan
Second Row: 2
Totally outshone by the bearded Chabal and he's like a big tall plain Limousin bullock that you can keep pumping nuts into him all winter and the biggest part of him will always be his head. Needs a haircut in the worst way as well.

Paul O'Connell
Second Row: 2
Dwarfed in every respect by Julian Bonnaire. How can we expect to win a match when this fella didn't win a single ball in the middle of the field all day. Spent 10 minutes in the sin bin and we'd be as well off if he was there for half an hour. o'dea

Simon Easterby
Blindside Flanker: 2
The IRFU won't have a big laundry bill after this fella, his jersey would have passed the Daz doorstep challenge after the match as he never got involved in the action. Going around the last day with a big scull cap on him and he totally mesmerised by the French. He'd remind me of nothing better than a goose out in the back yard and she looking up at lightening and not knowing what was going on.


David Wallace
Openside Flanker:3
Another poor performance from this fella and he's clearly playing with an injury. Should have stayed back in the hotel to update his World Cup diary for the Irish Independent as we would have been as well off with a photo of him in the openside flanker position such was his paltry influence.

Denis Leamy
No. 8: 3
Tried his best and did a lot of mullocking around and at times reminded me of nothing more than the way you'd see a hen scrapping galvanise, such were his attempts to get the ball out of the ruck.

Eddie O'Sullivan
Coach: 0
All I can say is that the IRFU must have plenty of money and no sense to offer a man a lucrative four year contract before the biggest rugby tournament of all. I know it's purely hypothetical but If I had to go to the bank for a loan, I'm sure they would be interested in my plans for paying back the loan rather than saying, "sure take the money and we'll see how you get on" which is effectively what the IRFU have done here.

For three games now, he has sent out Irish teams with no game plan at all.  They reminded me of nothing more than suck calves you'd let out of a dark cabin on May day and they'd spend half an hour buck leapin, tails in the air, running into fences and each other before they got used to the daylight. Well that was the Irish team under the glare of the Stade De France lights on Friday night. Eddie would be as well off if he stayed in Moylough and had a few pints in Cheevers and then ramble across to "An Tuirne" such was his influence and inability to make changes. What good is it sitting high up in the stand with another luadramahn beside him instead of running up and down the sidelines roaring instructions like our Bainisteoirs in GAA.  And don't get me started about the cheap suit he wears. An Aldi job if I ever saw one!

That's the best report from the world cup I've read yet.

Any of you lads from the west reccommend the best bar to watch the match on sunday in Sligo - preferable walking distance from the Sligo City Hotel. Cheers

If I was you I'd get in the car and drive to Tubbercurry and watch the Sligo SFC semi finals. Tourlestrane and John's at 2.30pm and the replay of Eastern Harps and Easkey at 4pm. Not many cool haircuts, sunbed tans or chances to shout "HEAVE" but good entertainment guaranteed.

Go away outta that, there's more permatans on display when Sligo play than if you put all 4 Irish Rugby provinces on the pitch at the same time :D

seanie - if it was at markivicz (sp) i would, but it's the driving bit i don't like the thought of. will have just arrived after a 3 hour journey and with a monday off i don't intend wasting it so  i will be having a few pints. thats why im after the high stool somewhere with a bit of atmosphere.maybe get the gaa crowd coming back after the match to hear the slagging. maybe you wouldnt get that in sligo !!

Stables bar on Wine Street which is literally around the corner from Sligo City Hotel would be considered a "rugby" pub in Sligo.

Quotemaybe get the gaa crowd coming back after the match to hear the slagging. maybe you wouldnt get that in sligo !!

Not likely!

Not a great man for drinking in the town myself in recent years so I've nothing to add to Teeling Gael's advice.

amusing report alright

Irish folk have been fed too much hype about this team/squad, and while the manager/coach must shoulder a lot of blame, we must face facts that our side are nowhere near as good as they are made out to be

look at the opposition for instance, man for man they look bigger and in spite of this, actually look more athletic than our muscularly sculpted players are.
Look at D'arcy for example , for all his jigs, twirls and bunny hops , the lad is just too small to be effective at that top level of rugby.
Others are just not good enough. ODriscoll is a superb finisher, but I always had questions about other aspects including tackling. Captaincy doesnt suit him either. Give it to someone else and allow him play his own game.
I cannot believe how poor Paul OConnell is. I hate to have to go and admit dinny was right all along.

Stop worrying lads - God sorry Bod says everything is fine

O'Driscoll still confident of progressing
Wednesday, 26 September 2007 08:02

Brian O'Driscoll insists it would be a 'travesty' if Ireland fail to stun Argentina and reach the World Cup quarter-finals.

Ireland must beat the Pumas by at least seven points while scoring a minimum of four tries at the Parc des Princes on Sunday if they are to progress.

For an ambitious team touted as Ireland's most gifted of all time to crash out at the group stage would be a bitter disappointment.

Few crumbs of comfort can be taken from their form in the tournament so far but skipper O'Driscoll believes the permutations are within their grasp.

'We're adopting the attitude that we know that we're capable of doing it. We're capable of a huge performance,' he said.

'It's the last game of the pool stages and we know that if we don't produce something enormous then this will be our last game in this World Cup.

'It's very much last-chance saloon. We're just hopeful that we can produce the form that everyone knows this team is capable of.

'It would be a travesty to work as hard as we have done for the past three months in pre-season, and four years since the last World Cup, and not put in a performance.'

Argentina have looked hugely impressive during the World Cup and their tryline has to yet to be breached.

But O'Driscoll believes the return of full-back Geordan Murphy and Denis Hickie to the starting line-up has improved their chances of securing the try-scoring bonus point.

'The Argentinians have based their game around their defence and they'll be very difficult to break down,' said the Leinster centre.

'But we've managed to score tries against great defences before, the likes of France, Australia and New Zealand.

'It's going to take a monumental performance but we have to think about just winning game and if there's four tries then fantastic.

'With the two guys coming in, without being disrespectful to the lads they're replaced, we've probably got more line-breakers - players that can create something out of nothing.

'We've got raw speed in Denis and an excellent rugby brain and brilliant reader of the game in Geordie.

'So, we've got as many game-breakers on the pitch as we could possibly have.'

In recent times Munster have entered crucial Heineken Cup Pool games against Gloucester and Sale needing a bonus-point victory to progress and O'Driscoll admits that experience may prove useful on Sunday.

'There are guys who have been in this situation before. It could be irrelevant, it could be important,' he said.

'And kind of experience that they can bring to the team is very much welcome. They'll know that you don't need to go out and do it in the first 20 minutes.

'Hopefully we'll let the performance take care of what the result may be. If we can get four tries, fantastic. If not, we'll die trying.'

They should shut the f*ck up talking about what they are going to do, and go and do it. I'm sick listening to them saying they are going to do the devil and all since last October.

This sort of sh1te ''We're adopting the attitude that we know that we're capable of doing it. We're capable of a huge performance' is regurgitated over and over again. If you are capable of it, then do it. Talk about it afterwards.

All this crap about putting 100 points on Namibia, 100 points on Georgia, Jaysus they wouldn't put 100 points up in Darts.

i dreamt last night that ireland won the match and scored 4 tries in the process so ye can all relax lads its in the bag

Jesus Small white mayoman, that's freaky. I did as well, and I have never in all my life dreamt about an Irish rugby international game.

I never dream either az, well except when i dreamt about rats for  a week and oneill told me i had 30 minutes to live. i think i might put a wager on. Who scored in you dream az with me it was murphy 2 horgan and o'driscoll in the last minute fairly vivid i know.

But did Argentina get the bonus point?

No they didn't main street i let you know how we did against New Zealand on monday ;)

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o140/Screech1089/untitled-1.jpg)

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 26, 2007, 04:25:56 PM
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o140/Screech1089/untitled-1.jpg)

:D :D :D :D

I don't understand it, no matter what Eddie O'Sullivan does, he is getting hammered on all fronts.
A couple of months ago the last hop of a ball in a game against France (with no O'Driscoll) was was all that kept us from the sacred Grand Slam.
He is derided for being conservative yet Eddie is always talking about playing "high risk rugby" :)

The same pundits  6 months ago who claimed him to be the best or one of the best coaches in the world now are screaming for the guillotine.
Now they say that the progress the team have made up to the last 6 Nations have been made despite Eddie.
It is not talked about very much that the big 3 provincial teams with 3 reputed coaches all performed dismally in the HC.

I don't expect a miracle against Argentina but it would be a great pleasure if the team could shove it up the nose of the  begrudgers and turn coats.

Ireland's Best rushed to hospital

Ireland prop Simon Best has been admitted to hospital after falling ill and complaining of a loss of feeling down his right side.

Best, 29, was immediately transferred to hospital in Bordeaux where tests are being carried out.

The Ulster front row has been named on the bench for Sunday's World Cup crucial clash with Argentina in Paris.

"He was walking around town in Bordeaux when he felt the loss of feeling down his right side," said a statement.

"Team doctor Gary O'Driscoll is with him in hospital but we probably won't have any update on his condition until tomorrow (Thursday) morning."

Best, whose brother Rory was the first-choice hooker at the start of the World Cup before fracturing and dislocating his thumb against Georgia, has made 23 appearances for Ireland.

He has come on as a substitute in all three games so far during the World Cup.

Ireland must beat Argentina by more than seven points and score four or more tries to reach the quarter-finals, probably as runners-up to France in Pool D.

Quotedon't understand it, no matter what Eddie O'Sullivan does, he is getting hammered on all fronts.

It's now what he does that annoys me but what he doesn't do, failure to use his bench, failure to develop a squad, failure to look at players in England and failure to drop players clearly out of form, anything O'Sullivan gets he deserves, he has more control than any other coach in the history of Irish rugby, he stabbed Gatland and then Kidney in the back, he needs to move on..

Quote
A couple of months ago the last hop of a ball in a game against France (with no O'Driscoll) was was all that kept us from the sacred Grand Slam.
He is derided for being conservative yet Eddie is always talking about playing "high risk rugby" Smiley

You reap what you sow, at that time Ireland been a conservative lot were 3 points up they had the option of a kick to the corner and a line-out to run down the clock, instead they opted to kick the penalty thus giving France another opportunity....

He talks the talk but if you think Ireland play high risk rugby you need your head examined

QuoteThe same pundits  6 months ago who claimed him to be the best or one of the best coaches in the world now are screaming for the guillotine.

The only pundit who consistently says that is Neil Francais, he hasn't a clue and is a muppet. Cronin and Thornly have been big critics of O'Sullivan over the last 2/3 years..

QuoteNow they say that the progress the team have made up to the last 6 Nations have been made despite Eddie.

The provinces develop the players, he has a lot of talented players, he has complete control, it's not hard to make progress when you comparing Ireland to the Ireland of old

QuoteIt is not talked about very much that the big 3 provincial teams with 3 reputed coaches all performed dismally in the HC.

Did they? Two quarter-finalists and Ulster hammered Toulouse at home  ???

QuoteI don't expect a miracle against Argentina but it would be a great pleasure if the team could shove it up the nose of the  begrudgers and turn coats.

These players have talked themseleves up, not the media not the fans, if they fail to deliver on their words they deserve to be critised...

Quote from: Main Street on September 26, 2007, 09:04:27 PM
I don't understand it, no matter what Eddie O'Sullivan does, he is getting hammered on all fronts.
A couple of months ago the last hop of a ball in a game against France (with no O'Driscoll) was was all that kept us from the sacred Grand Slam.
He is derided for being conservative yet Eddie is always talking about playing "high risk rugby" :)

The same pundits  6 months ago who claimed him to be the best or one of the best coaches in the world now are screaming for the guillotine.
Now they say that the progress the team have made up to the last 6 Nations have been made despite Eddie.
It is not talked about very much that the big 3 provincial teams with 3 reputed coaches all performed dismally in the HC.

I don't expect a miracle against Argentina but it would be a great pleasure if the team could shove it up the nose of the  begrudgers and turn coats.

Ireland were a wee bit unlucky in the Six Nations, being the victims of two rotten decisions against France when the ref played virtually no advantage in kickable positions, and they'd probably have won the Championship had Ireland been scheduled to play last rather than first on the final day.

But the fact is Ireland have been awful for five games on the bounce. That's a long time to be awful when you consider the team will only play ten or twelve matches in 2007. The coach has to take the blame for that.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2007, 09:35:40 AM
Did they? Two quarter-finalists and Ulster hammered Toulouse at home  ???

I would consider that the 2 provinces performed dismally in the 1/4 finals and the signs were there before in the group stages that it was on the cards.
Maybe Ulster had one superb home game in them.

On the pundits I thought it was also Hook who blows hot and cold over  O'Sullivan.

QuoteI would consider that the 2 provinces performed dismally in the 1/4 finals and the signs were there before in the group stages that it was on the cards.

So you take 2 performances in isolation and make a sweeping statement. Funny these two performances came after the 6 nations when the players were unavailable to their provinces  and hand been under O'Sullivans coaching ::)

Hook is another fraud, a man who knows liitle about the modern game..

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2007, 12:05:42 PM
So you take 2 performances in isolation and make a sweeping statement. Funny these two performances came after the 6 nations when the players were unavailable to their provinces  and hand been under O'Sullivans coaching ::)

No I didn't take the 2 dismal performances in isolation, I also said that the signs were there in the group stages.
I thought everyone knew that.
There is enough evidence to suggest that O´Sullivan is not the only coach of an Irish team to struggle with form.

BTW, I thought Reddan performed well :)

Sounds pretty bad for Simon Best - hope he's OK

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup2007/2007/0927/bests.html (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup2007/2007/0927/bests.html)

QuoteNo I didn't take the 2 dismal performances in isolation, I also said that the signs were there in the group stages.

Are these the groups that Leinster won and Munster missed out on winning theirs because Leicester had a better head to head, and Munster scored the third highest amount of points in the group stages.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing  but the signs were not there in the group stages   ???

Oh and considering Leinster lost the Magners League only on the last day with Ulster in contention as well only Munster had problems with their form but with Eddie O'Sullivan getting his hands on their pack is this really a surprise..

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2007, 02:27:15 PM
Are these the groups that Leinster won and Munster missed out on winning theirs because Leicester had a better head to head, and Munster scored the third highest amount of points in the group stages.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing  but the signs were not there in the group stages   ???

Dinny, now you are spinning, Munster looked ragged losing a crucial last home game and were dissapointed to be 7th seeds in the QF. I can´t really comment on Leinster except a home QF tie was well within their capabilities. In both cases, overall the results and performances were down from the year before.
WTF has hindsight got to do with that. Hindsight is great though when you revisit O'Gara´s penalty decision against France.

QuoteWTF has hindsight got to do with that

O'Gara's penalty was the perfect example of O'Sullivans conservative nature which manifest's itself in decisions like that. You are obviously an O'Sullivan apologist so I'll leave it there but Ireland have won nothing under O'Sullivan and never will*




*Triple Crowns mean jack shit to every other rugby nation...

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2007, 03:57:35 PM


*Triple Crowns mean jack shit to every other rugby nation...

Hear hear Dinny - the triple crown ceased to be relevant after the introduction of professionalism in union. England and France competed most years for the 6 nations title in the 90s and Scotland also won it one year (if I'm right) - but there was no mention of triple crowns!!

The year (foot and mouth year) Woodward's England came to lansdowne top of the group and needing to beat ireland for the grand slam - Ireland won, a great game, and how we all celebrated - look at england collecting the 6 nations trophy with no grand slam - and how everyone laughed! At least England under Woodward won their 6 nations titles and eventually clinched their grand slam when they crushed us 2 years after.

The first year Ireland came second to france (and claimed the triple crown) was 2004. The following year Wales won the grand slam - this is when I believe O'Sullivan should have been moved on. But to not claim the 6 nations in 2006 or 2007 was a failure and O'Sullivan has waffled away with excuses and hyped up the triple crown (for which they introduced a fecking trophy in 2006!!).

Don't talk to me about triple crowns.

I agree about the triple crown. Who cares? And introducing a stupid plate for it was a ridiculous attempt to portray this Irish team as real winners. In reality they have been competitive over the past 3 or 4 years, but have not won anything of note.

Maybe I have missed something, was the triple crown hyped up?
Some celebration after beating England in Twickenham, that´s about it.
We have had 4 years in a row beating England, even that is no big deal.
France were in our sights for a short period.

The provinces going out without a  whimper in the QF
The 6 nations, running France close, was the last hurray of fading fortunes for Irish Rugby.

And now another close shave with the Grim Reaper for Eddie to deflect attention away.

QuoteMaybe I have missed something, was the triple crown hyped up?

Of course it was. It was everywhere.

Tongans looking good in the handicap betting tonight, any betting advice? They ran SA pretty close

Quote from: ExiledGael on September 28, 2007, 07:07:24 PM
Tongans looking good in the handicap betting tonight, any betting advice? They ran SA pretty close

Anyway of watchin this live online? ITV.com won't show outside UK!

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 28, 2007, 12:19:16 PM

QuoteMaybe I have missed something, was the triple crown hyped up?

Of course it was. It was everywhere.

The players had a few drinks or what?
Did anybody take notice of the second triple crown victory?

Twice this week the Irish News has claimed that Ireland have never failed to get out of the group, Im not a huge rugby fan but surely this is wrong. Did Argentina not knock them out in the group stages 8 years ago in a midweek do or die game in France? If Im right this is terrible reporting and sometimes you'd have to wonder how these experts get paid for their services. Im not a rugby follower and would expect someone writing on the subject to have a much greater knowledge of the area than me.

Quote from: Main Street on September 29, 2007, 10:39:20 AM

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 28, 2007, 12:19:16 PM

QuoteMaybe I have missed something, was the triple crown hyped up?

Of course it was. It was everywhere.

The players had a few drinks or what?
Did anybody take notice of the second triple crown victory?

Hi Main Street,

it was continually talked about by O'Sullivan and is still used as a "success" benchmark. The third one was less celebrated in fairness

Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on September 29, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
Twice this week the Irish News has claimed that Ireland have never failed to get out of the group, Im not a huge rugby fan but surely this is wrong. Did Argentina not knock them out in the group stages 8 years ago in a midweek do or die game in France? If Im right this is terrible reporting and sometimes you'd have to wonder how these experts get paid for their services. Im not a rugby follower and would expect someone writing on the subject to have a much greater knowledge of the area than me.

Hi TD,

I think the 99 format was different in Ireland and Argentina qualified from the groups as best losers or best 3rd place and had to have a playoff to reach the quarter finals proper. one of the lads will know for definite

There is a fair old ding dong battle on now between Fiji and Wales. I'm glad I decided to watch it.
The Fijians use be a team of skinny fast guys.

It should be a cracker of a game tomorrow, it's just a pity about the 4 tries situation.

Wales on the way home. Great game,well done to Fiji!

Will Greenwood was sooooo cheering for Fiji on ITV. Fair play to him for not trying to pretend that it's a Union of Equals

Me and the dog were on our feet for Fiji as well.
I see Lynagh is calling it one of the great games of all times.

Yes, an exciting game.  Congratulations to Fiji.   

Scotland and Italy next.
I see Italy are missing Bortolami the captain and they have yet to get their game going in this World Cup.
Scotland should do it with some to spare but you never know.

How did you know the dog is a bitch.

Italy making a game of it so far could be very interesting.

Quote from: turk on September 29, 2007, 12:02:18 PM

Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on September 29, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
Twice this week the Irish News has claimed that Ireland have never failed to get out of the group, Im not a huge rugby fan but surely this is wrong. Did Argentina not knock them out in the group stages 8 years ago in a midweek do or die game in France? If Im right this is terrible reporting and sometimes you'd have to wonder how these experts get paid for their services. Im not a rugby follower and would expect someone writing on the subject to have a much greater knowledge of the area than me.

Hi TD,

I think the 99 format was different in Ireland and Argentina qualified from the groups as best losers or best 3rd place and had to have a playoff to reach the quarter finals proper. one of the lads will know for definite

There were five groups of four. The top team in each group went straight through to the quarter-finals with the five second placed teams and the best third placed team entering a playoff round. It was as messy as it sounds

1999 Rugby World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Rugby_World_Cup) - I note the whole page hasn't been totally purged of Irish tricolours. Come on OWC'ers!

"Everything under control" - Frank Haddon :D

The joy of the Scottish players has echoes of the Irish team against San Marino ::)

Why shouldn't they celebrate, Italy are more than a match for them.
Both teams are plodders.

Quote from: Main Street on September 29, 2007, 09:55:46 PM
Why shouldn't they celebrate, Italy are more than a match for them.
Both teams are plodders.

If John Rutherford saw that, he'd be turning in his grave.

france winning 59-0

do ireland still have to score 4tries, aye? or does the france match affect this is any way?

If Argentina get three more tries, that's that

Worser and more worser........................

its just got even worster

Oh well, another one of our minority sports teams crap at international level. Some of those Argentinian women in the stands look pretty fine.

The whole of D4 will b in terrible form after the goys lost.

Would any  of u want to go to war with Shane "hey you goys! ive just loike dropped the ball" Horgan or Ronan "just been fcukd up the hole flushed cheeks" O'Gara

Was that Stringer's woman? Nice.

any1 c Stringers girl there now--he dosnt give 2 fucks about the result with that wee bit hangin off his arm!

Hope springs eternal

Murphy try! Two to go! Missed conversation.

Dont they have to win by 7 as well as getting 4 tries?

Yip, need two more!!!

Quote from: Balboa on September 30, 2007, 05:05:04 PM
Dont they have to win by 7 as well as getting 4 tries?

Win by 8. 7 points means a bonus point for Argentina

Yeah balboa, but small steps first.

Quote from: Gold on September 30, 2007, 04:52:20 PM
Would any  of u want to go to war with Shane "hey you goys! ive just loike dropped the ball" Horgan or Ronan "just been fcukd up the hole flushed cheeks" O'Gara

Is Horgan really that much of a wuss? He's always struck me as the type who wrestles bears

Horgan must put butter on his fingers--hes your man if your a fan of dropped balls or knock ons

im sure i saw him in the Goonies

Quote from: Gold on September 30, 2007, 04:56:06 PM
any1 c Stringers girl there now--he dosnt give 2 fucks about the result with that wee bit hangin off his arm!

I bet she calls him her wee bit

Quote from: Gold on September 30, 2007, 04:52:20 PM
Would any  of u want to go to war with Shane "hey you goys! ive just loike dropped the ball" Horgan or Ronan "just been fcukd up the hole flushed cheeks" O'Gara

Horgans a fuckin' Meath man, theres no Heino and roight goys out here, (not even amoung the blue blow ins). Maybe he'll give up that shite and pull on a green and gold jersey.

Don't cry for me Argentina!

Very disappointing WC for the Golden Generation!

I can safely say i did not watch the last 20 minutes of each of Irelands 4 games!

From looking around the shops there will be alot of Jerseys, scarfs, T-shirts etc going cheap this week.

Gutted. Actually thought we had a chance of top 4 and with luck a final - more the fool me :(

Argentina look to me to be a very serious team and will surely feature in the world semi-finals. You can talk about the poor performances against Namibia and Georgia, but the bottom line is that Ireland are not as good as France or Argentina, and were beaten convincingly by both. We were in trouble from the moment we got drawn in the group of death.

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on September 30, 2007, 05:55:34 PM
Argentina look to me to be a very serious team and will surely feature in the world semi-finals. You can talk about the poor performances against Namibia and Georgia, but the bottom line is that Ireland are not as good as France or Argentina, and were beaten convincingly by both. We were in trouble from the moment we got drawn in the group of death.

If we had got the Bonus point against Georgia we would have had less work to do today! But i do agree that we were not good enough to beat either France/Argentina! But we were in trouble with the Georgia result.

The TV3 curse strikes again!

I turned over with 20mins to go to watch Play it Again Sam.

Last Tango in Paris, sans le beurre!

Fecking shoite the lot of them.

I like Brian O'Driscoll, I really do. He's a truly great player, showing it again today by scoring one try and creating another against the tightest defence in the tournament.

But he needs a slap for his mealy-mouthed comments after the game. He hid behind the idea that only one team went out to play, that Argentina basically set out to destroy. A pathetic attempt to distract from Ireland's inability to routinely create scoring chances, let alone score. I hope the Argies rubbed their noses in it big style

so next question, Will Eddie get the same deal Jenkins got, a boot in the arse and out the door.

Quote from: thejuice on September 30, 2007, 07:42:40 PM
so next question, Will Eddie get the same deal Jenkins got, a boot in the arse and out the door.

Jenkins had a contract up to the end of the next Six Nations. Eddie has a contract up to the end of the next World Cup. So no, I wouldn't have thought so.

Cost of buying him off = IRFU profits from a full house at Croke Park

Quote from: Eddie O'Sullivan
This is a tough moment and things have not gone to plan but there is no reason to walk away.

I would have said it is

Quote from: deiseach on September 30, 2007, 07:58:01 PM

Quote from: Eddie O'Sullivan
This is a tough moment and things have not gone to plan but there is no reason to walk away.

I would have said it is

Is he trying to say he had a plan????

Quote from: SammyG on September 30, 2007, 08:00:40 PM

Quote from: deiseach on September 30, 2007, 07:58:01 PM

Quote from: Eddie O'Sullivan
This is a tough moment and things have not gone to plan but there is no reason to walk away.

I would have said it is

Is he trying to say he had a plan????

(http://www.legendarytv.com/the_a-team/images/George_Peppard_hannibal_2.jpg)

The plan didn't come together.

QuoteBut he needs a slap for his mealy-mouthed comments after the game. He hid behind the idea that only one team went out to play, that Argentina basically set out to destroy. A pathetic attempt to distract from Ireland's inability to routinely create scoring chances, let alone score. I hope the Argies rubbed their noses in it big style

In fairness they just went out of the World Cup, there is no love loss between Argentina and Ireland and yet he has to answer questions on TV, he was clearly frustrated and you could see he regretted the comments but no it wasn't his best moment.

A few months ago I said Contepomi was the best inisde centre in World Rugby, again today he was immense. Argentina have a great chance to win this World Cup, I believe they will get to the final and I hope they do. There was only one team today that looked organised, structured and could execute the basics uder pressure and they weren't wearing green.

In faireness our leaders stood up today O'Connell and O'Driscoll but they were let down badly by D'Arcy, O'Gara, Reddan (Jury is back out), Horgan, Horan, Flannery, O'Callagahan and Leamy. O'Sullivan has to be sacked, rugby is an envolving sport with the Southern Hemisphere so far out in front hence a coach like Robbie Deans is what's needed.

Considering Quinlan, Wallace, Ferris, Carney, Sheehan, Young, O'Kelly, S Best, N Best, Duffy and Buckley got none or minimal game time you can't blame the squad you blame the coach and his team of untouchables.

D'Arcy, Stringer, Leamy, D Wallace, Horgan should all be dropped from the Irish Squad, we need to rebuild and this players should have to play themselves back into the squad.

Also I believe Hayes and O'Kelly will join Hickie in retirement, 3 great servants to Irish rugby and I wish them well

I'm a Kildare and an Irish rugby supporter, life doesn't much worse, although the Gooners are putting a smile on my face....

I thought Habana was lightening quick but he's met his match tonight, that USA man went past him like he wasn't there

The way forward is to recruit a southern hemisphere coach. EOS has to be sacked after this hames.

eddie jones anyone?

Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 30, 2007, 08:04:13 PM

QuoteBut he needs a slap for his mealy-mouthed comments after the game. He hid behind the idea that only one team went out to play, that Argentina basically set out to destroy. A pathetic attempt to distract from Ireland's inability to routinely create scoring chances, let alone score. I hope the Argies rubbed their noses in it big style

In fairness they just went out of the World Cup, there is no love loss between Argentina and Ireland and yet he has to answer questions on TV, he was clearly frustrated and you could see he regretted the comments but no it wasn't his best moment.

A few months ago I said Contepomi was the best inisde centre in World Rugby, again today he was immense. Argentina have a great chance to win this World Cup, I believe they will get to the final and I hope they do. There was only one team today that looked organised, structured and could execute the basics uder pressure and they weren't wearing green.

In faireness our leaders stood up today O'Connell and O'Driscoll but they were let down badly by D'Arcy, O'Gara, Reddan (Jury is back out), Horgan, Horan, Flannery, O'Callagahan and Leamy. O'Sullivan has to be sacked, rugby is an envolving sport with the Southern Hemisphere so far out in front hence a coach like Robbie Deans is what's needed.

Considering Quinlan, Wallace, Ferris, Carney, Sheehan, Young, O'Kelly, S Best, N Best, Duffy and Buckley got none or minimal game time you can't blame the squad you blame the coach and his team of untouchables.

D'Arcy, Stringer, Leamy, D Wallace, Horgan should all be dropped from the Irish Squad, we need to rebuild and this players should have to play themselves back into the squad.

Also I believe Hayes and O'Kelly will join Hickie in retirement, 3 great servants to Irish rugby and I wish them well

I'm a Kildare and an Irish rugby supporter, life doesn't much worse, although the Gooners are putting a smile on my face....

you did say that about Contepomi alright, though his first 10 mins were not up to his usual standard.
I was v impressed by the Argies. What great tactics and gameplan they had. Also was reading about how they deconstructed their scrummaging and that they created a technique that incorporates a coordination so tight that even breathing at the same time is part of it.
Rugby was always rife with old style techniques that could (and still can) be advanced and modernised to increase scoring potential etc.
Not kicking to touch was a big factor for Argentina, they didnt give up lineouts, Ireland didnt know how to respond and it seemed the lack of fitness from the ball being in play longer , fecked them up too.
Thought Geordan murphy finally brought his rep back up a bit to where it used to be with yesterdays display. The lack of gameplan or idea on how to combat Argentina's made the Irish look worse than they actually are yesterday. However, the team/squad are most def not as good as they have been hyped up to be.

Anyone lsten to setanta rugby commentators this world cup.
Lenehan and toland(?) are the best I have heard yet.

Anyone fancy Argentina to give the tri-nations a good game?

Who do they stand to play if they overcome France?

Quoteyou did say that about Contepomi alright, though his first 10 mins were not up to his usual standard.

That's because he's mad, takes him a while to settle down, he hates Munster with passion, gets to him a lot.....

QuoteI was v impressed by the Argies. What great tactics and gameplan they had.

All in the execution, Hernandez and the good Doc were fantastic..

QuoteRugby was always rife with old style techniques that could (and still can) be advanced and modernised to increase scoring potential etc.

Australia are brillant at doing this, a similar player base to Ireland but miles ahead in how they look at the game...

QuoteAnyone fancy Argentina to give the tri-nations a good game?

Who do they stand to play if they overcome France?

I take it you mean Scotland, it looks like they'll play South Africa the one side who can beat up the Argie pack, that is one game that will be as physical as they come, I would pay good money to be there for that...

I was seriously impressed by the Argies yesterday. A well drilled team with great players and a great gameplan. To be fair the Argies played the way we should be playing! But as usual we shit the nest and when something attainable comes so close we do our best to ruin it.

EOS has had a complete shocker of a tournament (along with a lot of Irish players). I think at this stage the IRFU are stuck with him until after the nations at which point they may be in a position to sack him. Having said that we'll see the spin go into overdrive after the World Cup, we will be told not to expect too much and that Ireland are a tem in transition and we're building for the next World Cup so I think it will be an interesting saga unfolding between now and the end of the 6Nations.

The only players that came out with any credibility in the tournament were BOD, Reddan and Murphy. The rest have been way below par and it's hard to see a way back from this. To me it seemed that there was sometihng inherently wrong with the team. We pride ourselves on the passion of our Munster pack whereby they have always been suspect in the scrum but always maul and lineout well and get the hard yards round the fringes. None of this has been prominent in this World Cup (even against the likes of Georgia and Namibia), Wallace Leamy and O'Connell have been totally useless as ball carriers and our support play for our backs yesterday was appalling resulting in a crazy amount of turnovers.  Is it a case of these lads playing too much rugby that they're burnt out or what else could it possibly be? From what I can see we were just not up for the challenge and hopefully in the coming weeks there will be some kind of tangible reason for our under performance because at the minute the country are demanding answers... and we deserve to get them!

QuoteIs it a case of these lads playing too much rugby that they're burnt out or what else could it possibly be?

I was thinking about this, it's probably the opposite, they don't play enough with their clubs instead they have 10 week camps with Ireland, 2 week camps at Christmas etc etc. Argentina only got together for the tournament, they're professional players who train and play with their clubs, they don't need extra conditioning so why should the Irish, I'd say the Irish guys are sick of each other and sick of O'Sullivan, O'Sullivan treated Ireland like a club side and that was his biggest failing. Our mental preparation I'd say was the worst of any team in the World Cup.

Ireland should be performing with passion and commitment like Fiji and Argentina. Those two teams demonstrate what sport is all about and the weekend was fanatastic for that alone, the sheer joy on their faces was amazing to see. The body language of the Irish players at the end showed that these guys didn't believe. It's up to the coach to starve the doubt and feed the belief, we're just mentally weak but watch how well the provinces before in the next 4 weeks...

Quote from: screenexile on October 01, 2007, 11:46:04 AM
I was seriously impressed by the Argies yesterday. A well drilled team with great players and a great gameplan. To be fair the Argies played the way we should be playing! But as usual we shit the nest and when something attainable comes so close we do our best to ruin it

More knowledgable rugby men than me have made much of the fact that modern union is built on strategies for each individual opponent, and the Argies got their game plan exactly right - whack it back down the field but don't leave it go into touch, thus forcing the Irish to either

a) kick it into touch, thus giving Argentina back possession, when they'll kick it back down the field but don't leave it go into touch;
b) stick up the garryowen, which they had the players to field it clean (Hernandez was awesome) and allow them kick it back down the field but don't leave it go into touch; or
c) run it back up the field and hurl ourselves against the wall of blue and white that hadn't conceded a try in the tournament. It is a tribute to the greatness of Brian O'Driscoll that this plan only came unstuck on the two occasions he burst through the wall.

Argentina applied this game plan for eighty flint-minded minutes. It was magnificent to watch. But the only reason they were able to apply this game plan was because Ireland needed the four-try bonus point. Eddie O'Sullivan tried to pretend this was because of Argentina's bonus point against Georgia but the only shock there was that it took them the whole match to get it. The real shock was that Ireland couldn't match them. And that was where the main failing for Ireland was in this tournament. There is no shame in losing to France or to this Argentina side, who will be seriously thinking of winning the whole thing now. But Ireland's failure to pick up the bonus point that both Argentina and France managed meant they had to use a game plan that played right into Argentina's hands (see above). We could play that match a hundred times and we wouldn't do what was necessary.

Fair play to the Argies. They were shafted by the organisers four years ago and bounced right back. I shall be cheering for them for the remainder of the tournament.

I'd say the old cabin fever might have had something to do with it OK (apart from being the third best team in the group and lacking imagination, skill and passion).

Should the players' wives and girlfriends have been brought to the camp? Or somebody's wives and girlfriends?

Quote from: Hardy on October 01, 2007, 12:06:14 PM
Should the players' wives and girlfriends have been brought to the camp? Or somebody's wives and girlfriends?

Distracted by the Argentinian wives and girlfriends in the stands?

Couldn't blame them for that!

Quoteapart from being the third best team in the group and lacking imagination, skill and passion

And it snows in Greenland......

Looks to me like we had a group of players and a coach who believed their own publicity going into the tournament.  Somehow they thought that throwing away a match against France and winning the Triple Crown were acheivements on the world stage.  We wnet into the tournament on the back foot and stayed there.

While on the field O'Driscoll is a genius, off it he's an arrogant, charmless boor.

Fair play to Argentina, shafted by the organisers in more that one World Cup and the one team the IRB doesn't want to see succeed.

One aspect of yesterday's game which I found interesting was the amount of turnovers won by the tackler while he was off his feet. Have the rules been changed/ relaxed or were the argies just chancing their arm and getting away with it?

I think the IRFU will hang onto EOS and praying that the Lions take him off their hands in 12-18 months time.

I know its ridoculous but he is still very much in the frame to be the next Lions coach. Only him and Sir Clive
went for it last time (after the World Cup Sir Clive was always going to get it), it's probably Ireland's turn to coach the Lions (Sir Clive, Graham Henry (NZ but representing Wales) and Ian McGeechan (a Scot) the last previous coaches). None or the home nations have done well (unless England or Scotland pull it out of the bag) and EOS have three Triple Crowns in the last four years.

A reasonable Six Nations campaign may be enough to give him the nod, then of course he will try to do both roles before the IRFU put the foot down and he will have to make a decision, which will be that being coach of the Lions is a great honour, too time -consuming, so many years as a coach........ EOS gets the big gig and the IRFU have got rid without paying him a king's ransom.

Downside, our development of a new ireland team going forward put back a year or two because of EOS innate conversatism and the hope that a reasonable Six Nations campaign will give him the Lions coach's job, putting any chance to doing any better in a World Cup four years from now in jeopardy.

I've seen the future..........

Just back from the match and although the writing was on wall for this team for some time ( maybe as long ago a Leicester winning at thomond ) am still mightily disappointed.

Stats of teams were pretty even apart from a remarkable 10 argentinian turnovers to Irelands 2 . It is hard to work out how this is happening when in the stands and passedits comment regarding staying on your feet are no surprise  . We really have had an atrocious tournament at the breakdown, havent played refs well or been physical enough . EOS has a major case to answer regarding back row selection and lack of changes here .

We also have major problems at hooker and SH and OH .I agree with Dinny about Reddan ....on last nights evidence doesnt offer anything more than Stringer ( and has a slower pass) . Boss took a quick tap at the end when there was an opportunity to kick to corner and aint the answer either. ROG needs to go way and sort his head out - a shadow of his former self .

BOD and POC ( the early lineout miss excepted) were both excellent. Hayes will be  sorely missed. Hickey also.

Agree with Passedit, couldn't believe the number of turnovers they got away with from hand on the floor, however as BC points out, they played the ref and Ireland didn't at all.

The best team won at a canter and are serious contenders for the whole thing. I have tipped South Africa since the Tri-Nations and still think they will at least get to the final but the Argentina game is certainly no banker for them.

I see there are 2 good articles in the IT, one destructing O´Sullivans assessment of what went wrong the other on O´Sullivan must go. Both are written by Gerry Thornley, very passionate about Irish Rugby and the negative effect of the status quo. Both articles well argued and broadsheet quality.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191222997696.html (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191222997696.html)
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191223002331.html (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191223002331.html)


On the big question, where did it all go wrong?
Thornley puts forward his theme  "constant rumours of disharmony" V the Conventional explanation of "overtraining syndrome" burn out.
I don't know what to make of the weak evidence Thornley put forward in the article evidence to support the disharmony, it's only from one player and other players supposedly intimidated (except of course the  big shots O'Driscoll, O'Connell and O'Gara).

Imo, regardless of which theory fits, the Head Coach has to take the brunt of the responsibility.

Whatever the case is re Geordan Murphy,  it is hard to find a successfull manager who doesn't fall out with a player who appears to deserve better.

I did interpret Hickies avoiding the question post match somewhat telling, as in 'I am out of that now, it's their issue now' rather than a bland endorsement 'coach did everything possible to set it up for us to play to our best potential'

Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2007, 03:32:28 PM
I see there are 2 good articles in the IT, one destructing O´Sullivans assessment of what went wrong the other on O´Sullivan must go. Both are written by Gerry Thornley, very passionate about Irish Rugby and the negative effect of the status quo. Both articles well argued and broadsheet quality.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191222997696.html (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191222997696.html)
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191223002331.html (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/1002/1191223002331.html)

I was going to say you need subs to read those articles. But lo! articles on The Future Of Irish Rugby are so important that they are made available by the Old Lady to the great unwashed.

So what do the great and the not so great unwashed make of the articles?

As you said, there's an awful lot of "such and such said this off the record". The story about the guy being woken up at midnight is fanciful in the extreme. The bottom line though, the one about a manager being judged on a four-year cycle, is sound. The thought of four more years of Eddie's lame-ass attempts at effiin' and blindin' would be enough to make the most commited of players recoil

And you had to laugh at the comment about the GAA's benevolence. Everyone has an opinion in the GAA about how windfall money should be spent, yet few are worried that it will be squandered. No one in rugby circles ever seems to fret about where the money from their milch cow - the internationals - is going, yet look what happens. Having such a decentralised organisation has its uses.

http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/World_Cup/Story/0,21043,13175_2775544,00.html (ftp://http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/World_Cup/Story/0,21043,13175_2775544,00.html)

DMarsden, that link doesn't go anywhere

I see on the Skysports 3 teams of the last 3 weeks, not one Irish player has been picked in any of the teams.
http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/World_Cup/Story/0,21043,13089_2773311,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/World_Cup/Story/0,21043,13089_2773311,00.html)
Not that any deserved to get near.
Just a few more pinches of salt into the wounds.
If they were to pick the worst 15 each week there would have been plenty of candidates.

Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2007, 04:52:51 PM
So what do the great and the not so great unwashed make of the articles?

Well I wash every christmas whether I need it or not, but...

Disregarding the "dúirt sé go ndúirt sé" stuff - I mean I know these guys are centrally contracted, but come on, there's the team/group ethic/politics and there's just been candid - it's obvious that there has been a failure of management, and I don't just mean the coaching side. All power corrupts and you know the rest. There seems to be an element of the IRFU putting all their eggs in one basket i.e. EOS, and I think we all know that any situation where all power is centralised, while it can provide clarity and benefits at first, needs to evolve with the group. It's a delicate balance obviously, but it's all gone very stale, and amongst the developing and squad players there is an atmosphere of dejection and even a little fear. Trevor Brennan's joking about "Bobby Bouchet" are not far of the mark, and no squad can afford that, at least not for established squad members in professional sport.

The second thing that is obvious is that EOS has gone off the boil, disconnected from reality, and is unchallenged. Everyone needs to be challenged, both negatively and constructively to evolve. It's a risk if you think you are in a situation where you are bulletproof. It's natural, it happens to us all even with the best will in the world. Trying to evolve is harder than being forced to bew competition, you need the stimulas, the stick and the carrot. He's also holding on to tight to the rein of power, probably oblivious to the damage it's doing, as no one surrounding is telling him this or that is wrong. In those circumstance you see all challenge as negative, instead of asking "is there any truth in that at all?". I think his answers at the press conference are most telling in the regard. When asked about the fans feeling he immediately goes into defensive mode and talks about himself instead of being candid - "Gutted and blaming me and the team. We got it wrong.". I think maybe that realisation hasn't honestly hit home yet, and he still thinks lack of game time is behind it. It is a major element. Hindsight is 20/20 vision but at least half that squad should have been in Argentina, and not just a bunch of stiffs. Stating the obvious, but professional sports men thrive on competition and games. Mothballing them for 6 months was never going to pay dividends. Can you imagine being more or less sequestored with your clubmates for six months without game time? I don't know about you lads but I played hurling with lads for years I hated, and who hated me. Been stuck with with them for prolonged periods of time without the outlet of games would drive me off  the head.

england are absolutely tearing the aussies apart at scrum time. cant believe england have one foot in the semis after that south africa horror show.

Fully deserved victory for England, wouldn't begrudge them... the bastards!

Jesus it will be hard to swallow if they go all the way...

lets all  sing together " they can stick their f**king chariots up their hole, they can stick their f**king chariots up their hole, they can stick their f**king chariots stick their f**king chariots stick their f**king chariots up their hole"

Fair play to England. They were a shambles a few months ago and were even a shambles a few weeks ago. They've turned it around by just concentrating on doing the basics right.

Think they'll get thumped in the semi mind.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 06, 2007, 04:06:11 PM
Fair play to England. They were a shambles a few months ago and were even a shambles a few weeks ago. They've turned it around by just concentrating on doing the basics right.

Think they'll get thumped in the semi mind.

I thought they'd get thumped today.

To be honest, if they can get a repeat performance from their pack, and the same intensity from their backs to give the big fellas a hand, England won't be beaten by much, even should they meet an on-song All Blacks. They were very impressive today.

Quote from: hardstation on October 06, 2007, 04:09:08 PM

Quote from: small white mayoman on October 06, 2007, 04:00:51 PM
lets all  sing together " they can stick their f**king chariots up their hole, they can stick their f**king chariots up their hole, they can stick their f**king chariots stick their f**king chariots stick their f**king chariots up their hole"

Bitter wee mayoman.

QuoteThink they'll get thumped in the semi mind.

I thought they would today but............

moi hardsation not at all   ;)

I was cheering for England. Isn't that okay?
Glad they won, though I was expecting a last minute drop goal from Australia to shove the chariot up their holes.

I know it's a bit hollow to crow after the event, but I took a wodge of the 5.8 Betfair were offering on England and I enjoyed every minute of that match. 4.8/1 was ridiculous odds in a game that was very likely to be low scoring and with Wilkinson invariably good for 12-15 points a match. I didn't reckon with him missing 4 kickable chances, though.

I also think France at 7 on Betfair for tonight is generous, given the circumstances, the team they've picked, the fact that the pressure is off them, the fact they're battle-hardened, the fact that the Blacks haven't been tested, the form of Carter and the lurking presence of the great enemy of overwhelming favourites everywhere - complacency.

I have a few bob on the double as well.

Quote from: Puckoon on October 06, 2007, 04:10:27 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 06, 2007, 04:06:11 PM
Fair play to England. They were a shambles a few months ago and were even a shambles a few weeks ago. They've turned it around by just concentrating on doing the basics right.

Think they'll get thumped in the semi mind.

I thought they'd get thumped today.

Well I thought the Aussies would win but not by a massive amount. The Aussie forwards have been their weak point for a few years now. If NZ get through tonight I doubt England will find their pack as accomodating as the Australians were today.

Quote from: Hardy on October 06, 2007, 04:25:26 PM
I know it's a bit hollow to crow after the event, but I took a wodge of the 5.8 Betfair were offering on England and I enjoyed every minute of that match. 4.8/1 was ridiculous odds in a game that was very likely to be low scoring and with Wilkinson invariably good for 12-15 points a match. I didn't reckon with him missing 4 kickable chances, though.

I also think France at 7 on Betfair for tonight is generous, given the circumstances, the team they've picked, the fact that the pressure is off them, the fact they're battle-hardened, the fact that the Blacks haven't been tested, the form of Carter and the lurking presence of the great enemy of overwhelming favourites everywhere - complacency.

I have a few bob on the double as well.

I laid the Ozzies when they were 6-3 down at 1.3, at that stage you could see that England were not going to roll over in the way many (myself included) thought they were going to.  I'd love to see France do it tonight, but I fear they won't, if not I think NZ will walk the cup, beating the Argies in the final.

I was cheering for England too. Nothing to do with Mrs d, she supports Wales in rugby. I'd cheer for Lucifer's massed hordes if they were playing Australia. Marvellous to see them being taken down a peg or two.

The FijiaTongaSam Zealanders are looking good against France.....

France winning by 2 - what a second half performance.

The all-blacks are in deep deep trouble!!

Richie McCaw showing BOD how to be gracious in defeat

That was unbelievable stuff!!

Allez Le Bleaus!!!

France win and face England in the Semi Final. Great game.

What a game...

Let's hope they can beat England now.

What odds a France Argentina final?

So much for Southern Hemisphere Rugby being a different class!

Quote from: Hardy on October 06, 2007, 04:25:26 PM
I know it's a bit hollow to crow after the event, but I took a wodge of the 5.8 Betfair were offering on England and I enjoyed every minute of that match. 4.8/1 was ridiculous odds in a game that was very likely to be low scoring and with Wilkinson invariably good for 12-15 points a match. I didn't reckon with him missing 4 kickable chances, though.

I also think France at 7 on Betfair for tonight is generous, given the circumstances, the team they've picked, the fact that the pressure is off them, the fact they're battle-hardened, the fact that the Blacks haven't been tested, the form of Carter and the lurking presence of the great enemy of overwhelming favourites everywhere - complacency.

I have a few bob on the double as well.

Nice!!

New Zealand dont seem to have the onions for a close battle, they will probably play France next year in a Test and beat them by 40 pts. Lets hope they hammer the Englanders next week.

Some shocks today .Southern Hemisphere really got a kick in the nuts . What will Eddie the Smurf say now .

The really annoying thing is we RAELLY did have a chance to win this. Fair play to France and England. come on Scotland!

I agree what the feck were we at in France

Great game, heart in mouth stuff even as a neutral . cant understand how people still watch soccer

QuoteGreat game, heart in mouth stuff even as a neutral . cant understand how people still watch soccer

Not sure about that, soccer is definately the poorest(to watch) of the field sports but I thought this game was only ok, first half was poor. Second half was good alright but too little happens in rugby for me to get too excited about it

Quote from: darbyo on October 06, 2007, 10:54:11 PM

QuoteGreat game, heart in mouth stuff even as a neutral . cant understand how people still watch soccer

Not sure about that, soccer is definately the poorest(to watch) of the field sports but I thought this game was only ok, first half was poor. Second half was good alright but too little happens in rugby for me to get too excited about it

Sorry meant great game is term of tension at the end (last 20 min really), i had my lot behind France .

Mighty stuff.

At one stage in the first half I thought had Eddie O'Sullivan taken over as French coach.

Thank f**k he resigned at half time.

France in second half were a joy. Such bravery and committment. How there was no penalty in the last 10. Donacha O'Callaghan would prob have conceeded 6 on his own.

I hope France win it now - a France Sud Ifrica final on the cards? Can the Argies make it to the final?

Yeah fair enough, if you were on one of them it was definately nerve wrecking. I think your a big Leinster rugby man Gneivn,right?, so maybe you'd be more into it than me. Where does this leave Ire performance?

Was the pass forward to Michalak (spell) for the 2nd French try. All on Setanta thought so. I thought so at first. Did English ref give France the benefit of a very small doubt?

Some are saying the sin-binning was unfair. I don't. I think it was warranted. French lad was taken out unfair and unsquare.

Hook on Newstalk was saying this result could impact badly on NZ's economy. Most of NZ's supporters only travelled this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 25,000 he said arrived and had 3 weeks booked for qf, sf and final.

The phrase "clusterfuck" is probably mild.

But then they did expect to be looking at Donnacha O'Callaghan's pusss today.

Quote from: darbyo on October 06, 2007, 11:17:41 PM
Yeah fair enough, if you were on one of them it was definately nerve wrecking. I think your a big Leinster rugby man Gneivn,right?, so maybe you'd be more into it than me. Where does this leave Ire performance?

Yeah Leinster man darbyo, It leaves in where it was before. In the gutter , no matter if France beat Argentina in the final or vice versa. We played shit in 4 games , 2 of them teams where no hope teams, teams we should of beat by at least 30 . Georgia where hard done by to be beat by us.

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 06, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Was the pass forward to Michalak (spell) for the 2nd French try. All on Setanta thought so. I thought so at first. Did English ref give France the benefit of a very small doubt?

Some are saying the sin-binning was unfair. I don't. I think it was warranted. French lad was taken out unfair and unsquare.

Hook on Newstalk was saying this result could impact badly on NZ's economy. Most of NZ's supporters only travelled this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 25,000 he said arrived and had 3 weeks booked for qf, sf and final.

The phrase "clusterfuck" is probably mild.

But then they did expect to be looking at Donnacha O'Callaghan's pusss today.

Pass was back but momentum  of the ball made it move forward which is ok. As for the sin binning it was 100% correct . In fact i though their was a case for penalty try at first but replay showed he prob wouldnt of gotten to the ball

"In the gutter", don't know much about rugby but considerig how results have gone I'dve thought that it would reflect well on Irish rugby

Quote from: Gnevin on October 06, 2007, 11:32:32 PM

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 06, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Was the pass forward to Michalak (spell) for the 2nd French try. All on Setanta thought so. I thought so at first. Did English ref give France the benefit of a very small doubt?

Some are saying the sin-binning was unfair. I don't. I think it was warranted. French lad was taken out unfair and unsquare.

Hook on Newstalk was saying this result could impact badly on NZ's economy. Most of NZ's supporters only travelled this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 25,000 he said arrived and had 3 weeks booked for qf, sf and final.

The phrase "clusterfuck" is probably mild.

But then they did expect to be looking at Donnacha O'Callaghan's pusss today.

Pass was back but momentum  of the ball made it move forward which is ok. As for the sin binning it was 100% correct . In fact i though their was a case for penalty try at first but replay showed he prob wouldnt of gotten to the ball

it was forward and a forward pass is illegal

Quote from: darbyo on October 06, 2007, 11:39:54 PM
"In the gutter", don't know much about rugby but considerig how results have gone I'dve thought that it would reflect well on Irish rugby

Its not results darbyo it performance or lack their of . We went over and performed shit against two very very weak teams and we are suppose to praise eddy when we''improve'' against France . Improve was talk for not get beat by 30 or 40 points ,Improve was talk for couldn't get any worse . Its a farce

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 06, 2007, 11:42:26 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 06, 2007, 11:32:32 PM

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 06, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Was the pass forward to Michalak (spell) for the 2nd French try. All on Setanta thought so. I thought so at first. Did English ref give France the benefit of a very small doubt?

Some are saying the sin-binning was unfair. I don't. I think it was warranted. French lad was taken out unfair and unsquare.

Hook on Newstalk was saying this result could impact badly on NZ's economy. Most of NZ's supporters only travelled this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 25,000 he said arrived and had 3 weeks booked for qf, sf and final.

The phrase "clusterfuck" is probably mild.

But then they did expect to be looking at Donnacha O'Callaghan's pusss today.

Pass was back but momentum  of the ball made it move forward which is ok. As for the sin binning it was 100% correct . In fact i though their was a case for penalty try at first but replay showed he prob wouldnt of gotten to the ball

it was forward and a forward pass is illegal

Yes but the pass was back and the momentum carried it forward which is different .
Try throwing a ball at your top speed slightly back at a set line, the ball will not land behind it .

Agree, we were shite against both of the "weaker teams", but maybe we weren't that good in the first place. I think we were over rated from a poor 6 natiions

Quote from: Gnevin on October 06, 2007, 11:45:02 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 06, 2007, 11:42:26 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 06, 2007, 11:32:32 PM

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 06, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Was the pass forward to Michalak (spell) for the 2nd French try. All on Setanta thought so. I thought so at first. Did English ref give France the benefit of a very small doubt?

Some are saying the sin-binning was unfair. I don't. I think it was warranted. French lad was taken out unfair and unsquare.

Hook on Newstalk was saying this result could impact badly on NZ's economy. Most of NZ's supporters only travelled this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 25,000 he said arrived and had 3 weeks booked for qf, sf and final.

The phrase "clusterfuck" is probably mild.

But then they did expect to be looking at Donnacha O'Callaghan's pusss today.

Pass was back but momentum  of the ball made it move forward which is ok. As for the sin binning it was 100% correct . In fact i though their was a case for penalty try at first but replay showed he prob wouldnt of gotten to the ball

it was forward and a forward pass is illegal

Yes but the pass was back and the momentum carried it forward which is different .
Try throwing a ball at your top speed slightly back at a set line, the ball will not land behind it .

no the pass was forward
I have tried (as I have played rugby)
and one of the first rules told to me in 1979 when I first played was you cant pass forward or even level
moementum of the ball is fcuk all to do with it
if its forward
its forward

I am glad I am not a gambling man, I would have put the house on N.Z winning this World Cup.  

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 06, 2007, 11:56:21 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 06, 2007, 11:45:02 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 06, 2007, 11:42:26 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 06, 2007, 11:32:32 PM

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 06, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Was the pass forward to Michalak (spell) for the 2nd French try. All on Setanta thought so. I thought so at first. Did English ref give France the benefit of a very small doubt?

Some are saying the sin-binning was unfair. I don't. I think it was warranted. French lad was taken out unfair and unsquare.

Hook on Newstalk was saying this result could impact badly on NZ's economy. Most of NZ's supporters only travelled this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 25,000 he said arrived and had 3 weeks booked for qf, sf and final.

The phrase "clusterfuck" is probably mild.

But then they did expect to be looking at Donnacha O'Callaghan's pusss today.

Pass was back but momentum  of the ball made it move forward which is ok. As for the sin binning it was 100% correct . In fact i though their was a case for penalty try at first but replay showed he prob wouldnt of gotten to the ball

it was forward and a forward pass is illegal

Yes but the pass was back and the momentum carried it forward which is different .
Try throwing a ball at your top speed slightly back at a set line, the ball will not land behind it .

no the pass was forward
I have tried (as I have played rugby)
and one of the first rules told to me in 1979 when I first played was you cant pass forward or even level
moementum of the ball is fcuk all to do with it
if its forward
its forward

Then explain how Brian O'Driscoll manage to pass the ball to himself in full flight as momentum reasoning is what i was told

The pass was forward so what, every sport has the same type of argument, sure we're still arguing Seamus Darby's goal.

Quote from: Gnevin on October 07, 2007, 12:03:19 AM
no the pass was forward
I have tried (as I have played rugby)
and one of the first rules told to me in 1979 when I first played was you cant pass forward or even level
moementum of the ball is fcuk all to do with it
if its forward
its forward

Then explain how Brian O'Driscoll manage to pass the ball to himself in full flight as momentum reasoning is what i was told
[/quote]
cant remember/recall the incident
but as the rules go
if he threw the ball behind himself
it was legal

if he didnt
then it should have been a scrum to the opposition
easy

Quote

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 07, 2007, 12:06:04 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 07, 2007, 12:03:19 AM
no the pass was forward
I have tried (as I have played rugby)
and one of the first rules told to me in 1979 when I first played was you cant pass forward or even level
moementum of the ball is fcuk all to do with it
if its forward
its forward

Then explain how Brian O'Driscoll manage to pass the ball to himself in full flight as momentum reasoning is what i was told

cant remember/recall the incident
but as the rules go
if he threw the ball behind himself
it was legal

if he didnt
then it should have been a scrum to the opposition
easy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzvnexjWJYg

Quote from: Gnevin on October 07, 2007, 12:11:04 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 07, 2007, 12:06:04 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 07, 2007, 12:03:19 AM
no the pass was forward
I have tried (as I have played rugby)
and one of the first rules told to me in 1979 when I first played was you cant pass forward or even level
moementum of the ball is fcuk all to do with it
if its forward
its forward

Then explain how Brian O'Driscoll manage to pass the ball to himself in full flight as momentum reasoning is what i was told

nothing spectacular there
he threw the ball behind himself
no problem with the rules there

similarly plenty of Gaelic footballers have done likewise, in passing to themselves and using a colleague as a decoy
its all legal 
as long as the bal goes backeards as it did in that odriscoll clip
its fine
cant remember/recall the incident
but as the rules go
if he threw the ball behind himself
it was legal

if he didnt
then it should have been a scrum to the opposition
easy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzvnexjWJYg
[/quote]

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 07, 2007, 12:16:25 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 07, 2007, 12:11:04 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 07, 2007, 12:06:04 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 07, 2007, 12:03:19 AM
no the pass was forward
I have tried (as I have played rugby)
and one of the first rules told to me in 1979 when I first played was you cant pass forward or even level
moementum of the ball is fcuk all to do with it
if its forward
its forward

Then explain how Brian O'Driscoll manage to pass the ball to himself in full flight as momentum reasoning is what i was told

nothing spectacular there
he threw the ball behind himself
no problem with the rules there

similarly plenty of Gaelic footballers have done likewise, in passing to themselves and using a colleague as a decoy
its all legal 
as long as the bal goes backeards as it did in that odriscoll clip
its fine
cant remember/recall the incident
but as the rules go
if he threw the ball behind himself
it was legal

if he didnt
then it should have been a scrum to the opposition
easy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzvnexjWJYg

[/quote]
Yet he catches the ball ahead of where it threw it from! Which is what i was saying about the momentum of the ball

no he catches the ball behind where he threw it from
if he didnt
its a foul

actually yer right
he didnt
'i am wrong
its a foul
the ref was wrong to miss it

surely that the same as a juggle, and so long as he regains control of the ball befor it strikes the ground or another player its perfectly ok? in the same way as a player who knocks on isn't penalised if he catches the ball before it hits the ground?

Quote from: Uladh on October 07, 2007, 01:29:40 AM

surely that the same as a juggle, and so long as he regains control of the ball befor it strikes the ground or another player its perfectly ok? in the same way as a player who knocks on isn't penalised if he catches the ball before it hits the ground?

I could be wrong
but if he trows the ball up - as if a pass
then its a pass
and if has to go backwards
this should have been called as a foul by the ref
hard o see though
easy understanding how the ref got it wrong

imo there has been a lot of forward passes let go by this world cup officials in the 2007 world cup

What a wonderful performance in the second half by the French back row and especially the centres.  The Kiwis didn't know what hit them.  I'm surrounded by Aussies (of course) and Kiwis at work here in the bush and the latter have been walking around for the last month ensuring everyone hears about how they will win.  Well, Tant Pis mon ami.

I am disappointed that Oz lost but am delighted that my "second" team won.  In so far as I'd love to see Fiji beat S.Africa I think we'll have a France-S.Africa final.  I trust there'll be NO Irish (apart from the misguided few in the wee six) supporting France's opposition next weekend.

PS. Some dumbfcuk commentator here made a comment about how Australia were beaten by those from "the motherland".  Dunno if Teqiri or Gregan see it that way.

South Africa must be reasonably strong favourites now. I tipped them at the start but honestly thought they would be beating Australia in the final. Surely England if they get past France couldn't overturn such an overwhelming defeat (although mind you France fairly put to bed those couple of recent hammerings from tour to NZ last night).

England have a very real chance now of making the final, lets not forget they beat France in Six Nations and France are anything but consistent. I would love to see Argentina do it, but fancy South Africa's pack to be the strongest they will face and hold their own allowing a good supply of ball for their battering ram centres and lightning strike runners. SA to beat Argies by 5-7 points in the best game of the WC and then to beat France by 10, after France scrape past England.

Quote from: Aerlik on October 07, 2007, 06:36:23 AM
I am disappointed that Oz lost but am delighted that my "second" team won.  In so far as I'd love to see Fiji beat S.Africa I think we'll have a France-S.Africa final.  I trust there'll be NO Irish (apart from the misguided few in the wee six) supporting France's opposition next weekend.

If someone was Irish how would they be misguided if they chose to support France's opposition next weekend?  Not that I am btw.

Quote from: Chrisowc on October 07, 2007, 09:48:56 AM

Quote from: Aerlik on October 07, 2007, 06:36:23 AM
I am disappointed that Oz lost but am delighted that my "second" team won.  In so far as I'd love to see Fiji beat S.Africa I think we'll have a France-S.Africa final.  I trust there'll be NO Irish (apart from the misguided few in the wee six) supporting France's opposition next weekend.

If someone was Irish how would they be misguided if they chose to support France's opposition next weekend?  Not that I am btw.

I'm referring to the 20(ish)% of the Irish nation's population of 5 million located in the Six Counties who, for the most part, have an allegiance to a foreign head of state. 

FWIW, population of the 26 counties is about 4.4m

I was cheering for England against Australia but now in the SF I'll be for France and was delighted they beat the flairless All Blacks.
Nice to see Trevor Brennan shifting out of face paralysis mode with a broad smile on the TV

that is pure class from BOD never saw it before or since. Perhaps what he did may be technically illegal but are the rules written to take account of it. I remember a coach at school telling us about the first hurler, don't remember who, to bounce the ball off the ground on the run to aloow himself to take the ball in his hand again. At the time there was uproar but the ref let it go. After the match the rules were checked and it was found to be within the rules so now the very occasional brave player will try it.

Two tries in a minute for Fiji, they're drawing if he kicks the conversion!! This could be the biggest shock yet

South Africa 30 - Fiji 20.
Fiji scrum has let them down but other wise great great performance

The Mayor of Auckland was interviewed at half-time in the French game, stated that while he didn't think anyone should get too carried away with themselves, went onto say that quiet preparations were being made for the homecoming including a ticker tape parade for the webb-ellis :D :D Fell off the couch laughing when they showed on NZ Prime News on Sky ;D

Quote from: Main Street on October 07, 2007, 01:37:31 PM
FWIW, population of the 26 counties is about 4.4m

Ah okay, so that'll then approximate to the NATIONAL population being about 5.5 million.  At this rate the population will be reaching the pre-famine figures of 8 million in about 25 years time.

We get NZ news over here on SKY.  Feck I laughed too.  I actually like the Kiwis but the cockiness of the supporters was getting a bit much.  Yesterday wasn't a good day to mention Greenpeace to a Kiwi.

The Kiwi No.8 is a beast of a man.  Well they all are but he stood out. McAllister has beefed up considerably too.  He's going to be some asset to Sale (I think it is) in England.

I got up at 3am to watch the Argies.  Not as convincing as before and their try was a tad fortunate, however well done to the big forward for chasing when he had three or four metres to make up on the Scottish defence. However, I think that is the end of the road.  The 'Boks might just be too difficult.  But who knows.

re. the anthems, I rate "Flower of Scotland" as up there with the best and the passion liberally demonstrated by the Argentinian forwards during their anthem is notable, unlike the look of the Irish players when we play away and have to listen to Phil Coulter's dirge. 

Allez les Bleus

Great sport. England dragged a performance out of their forwards that no one could see coming and fair play to them. France were just unbelievable in the second half but yet again the "All Greys" as Williams insisted on calling them blew it big time. How they didn't take a drop goal on the last drive I don't know. Pass was definitely forward and should have been called as so. Also I thought there was at least one blatant penalty that was given just before they tried that drop goal from the half way line and the ref dropped his arm pretty quickly where as normal I thought he'd let them try it before bringing it back for the original offence? Interesting to see if France can match that intensity next week but you'd have to fancy them.
Fair play to Fiji as well great guts but just don't have the structure or discipline up front. Scotland v the Argies was absolutely shocking as a game I thought and I just hope that the semi against SA is better.
France to emulate Zizou et les bleus from 1998!!!

I was cheering on England big time against the Aussies. Australia is the most arrogant sporting nation in the world bar none.

But I'll now be cheering on the French  ;D

There is a momentum rule in rugby league not in union, that pass was forward but thoses things happen..still a fantastic try..

The Argentina v SA game will not be one for the neutral but I can't wait for it...

Quote from: 5iveTimes on October 08, 2007, 10:02:10 AM
Dinny thats taking things a bit far, you cant cheer on Engerland. Hopefully the wheels will come off the chariot against France, but it has been a good tournament for England after a disappointing 6 Nations. Maybe they didnt have the expectations of the Irish team, but they have done well.
France should beat them comfortably though.

The English pack has sadly improved immeasuribly in recent weeks and may just give them a chance against France. Johnny Wilkinson is almost guaranteeing them 15 points a game of his boot, so the French would need to be wary. The French should hope and pray that Andy Farrell gets fit and is selected to play as he's a weak link.

That Jim Rosental is an annoying **** and Bayfield was no better the other night in Cardiff. I'd say Fitzpatrick was ready to lamp him after harping on so much about the demise of the southern hemisphere rugby. Even last night Kenny Logan got a dig in about a dream final of France vrs Argentina and the big bollocks was too thick to pick up on it. Thank f**k for Stuart Barnes as he knows his stuff and isn't the sterotypical Engerland cheerleader when commentating on games

Barnes is the single biggest w*nker on tv. the itv (sky) commentary team are too busy fawning over the english and dreaming up flowery language to describe some imagined english superiority to actually convey what is happening in front of them. i hate barnes and his penchant for saying whatever he decided he was going to say before the game, irrespective of what is going on on the pitch.
tv3 commentary is shite too. setanta is your only man.

QuoteDinny thats taking things a bit far, you cant cheer on Engerland. Hopefully the wheels will come off the chariot against France, but it has been a good tournament for England after a disappointing 6 Nations.

:D Only against Oz, Lynchbhoy is the big English rugby fan, he loves their power play...

As for Stuart Barnes, I like him as a pundit, very honest, as for Jeremy Guscott now him I dis-like...

Barnes is quite good, he has a column in the Times and puts the boot into England on a regular basis if they deserve it.

I like Stu Barnes as well. I can't stand his idiot colleague in the Times Stephen Jones. On TV, Guscott annoys me as well, but I've been watching the World Cup on Setanta only.

Great wins for England and France, and Scotland gave the Pumas a serious fright. Everything was looking dodgy for the 6 nations this time last week, much brighter today :D

I have noticed in all the games that whenever a trumpet is played in the crowd the crowd let a big roar after it, does anyone know who plays the little trumpet medly and why do they do it

QuoteI have noticed in all the games that whenever a trumpet is played in the crowd the crowd let a big roar after it, does anyone know who plays the little trumpet medly and why do they do it

Only happens in France, it means the fella with the free garlic bread is comin'.

Quote from: muppet on October 08, 2007, 12:38:49 PM

QuoteI have noticed in all the games that whenever a trumpet is played in the crowd the crowd let a big roar after it, does anyone know who plays the little trumpet medly and why do they do it

Only happens in France, it means the fella with the free garlic bread is comin'.

seriously??

Quote from: muppet on October 08, 2007, 12:38:49 PM

QuoteI have noticed in all the games that whenever a trumpet is played in the crowd the crowd let a big roar after it, does anyone know who plays the little trumpet medly and why do they do it

Only happens in France, it means the fella with the free garlic bread is comin'.

Heard the trumpet the other night in Cardiff. Wondered what it was all about.

What the hell were the Irish fans in the ground on Saturday night singing the Fields of Athenry for? It sounded extremely silly to me.

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 08, 2007, 03:22:33 PM
What the hell were the Irish fans in the ground on Saturday night singing the Fields of Athenry for? It sounded extremely silly to me.

Talk about a really 'Irish' thing to do!!!! queue the backlash of 'screenexile is a racist' comments

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 08, 2007, 03:22:33 PM
What the hell were the Irish fans in the ground on Saturday night singing the Fields of Athenry for? It sounded extremely silly to me.

The french and kiwis were singing it too. I reckoned that 20% of the crowd were Ireland fans. I found it a bit cringeworthy as well in a "we should be keeping our heads down" sort of way.

I found it the same maddog. Why in denamajaysus would we be drawing attention to ourselves in those circumstances?

I actually found it funny in a "we've another 2 weeks out here paid for, might as well say hello to the goys at home, aren't us rugger folk tremendous craic altogether". Not a peep out of them once the game livened up, if only rugby was like that all the time. From the anthems, to the eyeballing at the Haka, to the hits that were going in, to the commitment, it was absorbing stuff, might actually watch the rest of the games now...

It was cringeworthy stuff all right. I suppose they deserve credit for sticking with the sport - and what sport! - rather than dumping their tickets on the touts. But this whole ole ole ole thing became passé around, I'd suggest, the time of the mass exodus from Lansdowne Road when Spain smacked three past us in the first half of the qualifier in 1993.

well, France or the other lot?

Jason Robinson is unreal.  I've watched him since his Rugby League days and have the utmost respect for him.  Nice touch letting him take the applauds on his 50th cap.

What the f**k.  Try - dream start

It is all set up for Johhny Rubber to slot one over at the death.....

Im gonna get my coat and go......Bastards

Its the end of the world as we know it......

Motherfuckers...............  :-[

Bollocks

The f**king Boks better win tomorrow or it will be the Falklands all over again......

The knighthoods will be flying about again.....

I'd say O'Driscoll and the boys are  :o

Fairness to England they had the balls for it and went in as underdogs and didnt have their heads up their arses.....

fucccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccck it!!!!!!

This was our chance  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

what a wankfest from them commentators on ITV, i need to forget that happened, can i have a pair of pints and a pair of quadruple whiskeys please barman

There is certainly a thing about teams who can raise it when they have to. In Tyrone we have Carmen. Their third 15 from 20 years ago could give the championship a rattle.

England have had a real good rattle at this

How great would it be to see the Pumas go all the way now(?)

Maguire that would be great. A harsh lesson for us but great.

In fairness Barnes said they were pretty shite but gutsy, at the same time the wanky commentator was talking about them playing "amazing rugby".....We may hope the Boks get to the final because the English would beat the Argies.

Unfortunately the English could very well beat the Boks as well!

Quote from: Estimator on October 13, 2007, 10:44:37 PM
Unfortunately the English could very well beat the Boks as well!

I dunno if they would, they have managed to catch Aussies & French a bit off colour, and the French have always been a bit brittle mentally when a big prize is near. I dont think the Boks would clam up the way the French did tonight. You have to hand it to England though they know how to win tight matches.

Pumas vs Engerland would be intresting ;D

Quote from: hoopsaaa on October 13, 2007, 10:53:04 PM
Pumas vs Engerland would be intresting ;D

Who knows, we might get the forward pass of God if it happens...

ballocks to that,  :o

Brian Ashton has hailed Englands "British Bulldog  spirit", f**k me is he a Sun reporter in his spare time?

Quote from: Balboa on October 13, 2007, 10:47:35 PM

Quote from: Estimator on October 13, 2007, 10:44:37 PM
Unfortunately the English could very well beat the Boks as well!

I dunno if they would, they have managed to catch Aussies & French a bit off colour, and the French have always been a bit brittle mentally when a big prize is near. I dont think the Boks would clam up the way the French did tonight. You have to hand it to England though they know how to win tight matches.

The thing is that England could get the siege mentality going again!  The fact that the Boks hammered England, will mean that they go in as underdogs yet again - if the boks come through tomorrows game!

Fair play to the anglos. Its gonna be a fecking media frenzy now though.

Fair play to Ashton and the English. After the SA embarrassment, they knew that in order to avoid an early exit they had to refine their game and resort to stifling and economical rugby. It was worked and so far Australia and France have not found a way to beat it. The English know that if there's 2-3 points in it with 10 to go, attack-minded opposition will panic. I can see them doing the same to SA. The English camp now spend their week highlighting the key positives of the opposition and simply go out to nullify them. With Johnny on board, they know anything can happen in terms of kicking.

I know it's fashionable to Brit-bash at times like these but I separate sport from general culture. Well done England - beating the French in their backyard in their World Cup.

An Argie-England final would be a nightmare in terms of aesthetics.

Never thought i would say it but fair play England. We missed the boat. We had the a team capable of winning - being world champions ???. EOS should "get the chap "as we say up ere.

Jaysus hoopsaaa, if the locals heard ya saying that...

Can't believe England are in the final again. This is a team Ireland have beaten 4 times on the trot since 2003 and hammered only 6 months ago.

Plus they are the most boring team in rugby. Only for Traille's balls up early on they would have gone through the quarter finals and semi-finals without scoring a try.

Please let someone beat them in the final.

I think they'd beat Argentina. I only hope now the Boks will be able to soften their cough up front.

Nope, they're going to win it and we'll hear about the 2 in a row until the end of time. Not so much myself I'm worried about. My brother in law is a Welsh rugger and he works in London. Got nothing but abuse for the last 4 years and he fears the next 4.

I've heard you say the Hard Stations are doomed several times tonight. What you talking about?

if its england v south africa i aint to sure who i'll cheer for!!!!

Before anyone asks; I'm currently working - but I take it all you lads posting between 2am and 4am on a Sunday morning didnt score after your nights out - wtf.  :o :o  In all honesty do you come home and think - I'll switch computer on and post here.

And who are you to make comment on others. Everybody can't live the 'James Bond like' lifestyle that you apparently live. I'll never understand the need some people feel to make sweeping statements or implied suggestions about others based on flimsy evidence. Whether a late night poster is a socially awkward single 50 year old alcoholic or a 25 year old stud taking a breather from the orgy going on in his bedroom it's none of your business. So unless you've something to add to the topic being discussed keep your opinions to yourself as I'm sure no one cares.

Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2007, 03:57:34 AM

Quote from: Tankie on October 14, 2007, 03:45:24 AM
if its england v south africa i aint to sure who i'll cheer for!!!!

Aye, it depends on who is winning after you finally switch it on after 15 minutes of play.

:D

Donegal could've won an Ulster or two over the past ten years, but we didn't. Talent is all very well, but if you don't have the belief and the attitude and the guts, there's no point in crying about it after some other team you should match or exceed on paper does manage to progress. As with Greece in Euro '04, I say fair fcuks to England if they win a World Cup with this team.

Quote from: darbyo on October 14, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
And who are you to make comment on others. Everybody can't live the 'James Bond like' lifestyle that you apparently live. I'll never understand the need some people feel to make sweeping statements or implied suggestions about others based on flimsy evidence. Whether a late night poster is a socially awkward single 50 year old alcoholic or a 25 year old stud taking a breather from the orgy going on in his bedroom it's none of your business. So unless you've something to add to the topic being discussed keep your opinions to yourself as I'm sure no one cares.

It's insecurity.

Quote from: darbyo on October 14, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
And who are you to make comment on others. Everybody can't live the 'James Bond like' lifestyle that you apparently live. I'll never understand the need some people feel to make sweeping statements or implied suggestions about others based on flimsy evidence. Whether a late night poster is a socially awkward single 50 year old alcoholic or a 25 year old stud taking a breather from the orgy going on in his bedroom it's none of your business. So unless you've something to add to the topic being discussed keep your opinions to yourself as I'm sure no one cares.

That's what I call being bitchslapped. ;D

The Boks are there anyway, fingers crossed now. Hopefully they f**king tank them, its payback for the Boer war now.

Quote from: darbyo on October 14, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
And who are you to make comment on others. Everybody can't live the 'James Bond like' lifestyle that you apparently live. I'll never understand the need some people feel to make sweeping statements or implied suggestions about others based on flimsy evidence. Whether a late night poster is a socially awkward single 50 year old alcoholic or a 25 year old stud taking a breather from the orgy going on in his bedroom  it's none of your business. So unless you've something to add to the topic being discussed keep your opinions to yourself as I'm sure no one cares.

Briliant line and quite true of my life  :)

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 14, 2007, 10:00:13 PM

Quote from: darbyo on October 14, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
a 25 year old stud taking a breather from the orgy going on in his bedroom 

Briliant line and quite true of my life  :)

You'll have to stop looking through that keyhole.

It was a crap game the Argentines were plodders, glad they are out. The worst game at the WC was their game against Georgia, I thought International Rugby had died a death after that orgy of rucks and mauls.

Use to be the best passport that you could have in the PTA era in England, the English passport with South African residency, the Bobbies would give you a salute and call you sir even if you were pissed out of your head in charge of an auto.

Fair play to England. Hung in there and Sir Jonny did the business again at the crunch. French blew it.
Boks played for the Argies to make mistakes and boy did they punish them. Habana mightn't be able to catch or defend but by God can he finish.

Can't really see England winning but looking at the Boks scrum last night you never know.

World Cup - Boks boss predicts final rout
Eurosport - Mon, 15 Oct 15:05:00 2007
South Africa manager Zola Yeye has stoked the fires ahead of Saturday's World Cup final, predicting another easy victory over England.

South Africa earned a World Cup final rematch with the England team they demolished in the pool stage when they overcame Argentina 37-13 in their semi-final on Sunday.

South Africa are in the final for the first time since they won the trophy on home soil 12 years ago and can probably barely believe that their opponents will be England, whom they thrashed 36-0 in their second pool match.

And Yeye was in ebullient mood.

"What we did to England, 36-0, we will inflict the same punishment on them again," he said.

"Some people say I am overconfident, but we are playing a team we have already beaten."

Bryan Habana scored two of their four tries to equal Jonah Lomu's 1999 tournament try-scoring record of eight as Argentina's first appearance in the semi-final fell flat with a performance littered with errors.

Habana, one of five nominations for the IRB player of the year, demonstrated why he is regarded as the deadliest finisher in world rugby with two moments of brilliance against the Pumas.

The speedster scored a 60-metre try in the first half when he chipped the ball over Lucas Borges then followed up with an 80-metre intercept just before full-time.

Despite Habana's reluctance to take credit for his performances, his team-mates were quick to pay tribute to his contribution and England know he is the man to stop.

"We could do with him in the final, we need him to score one or two tries. He will say he's not interested in breaking records," said lock Victor Matfield.

Full-back Percy Montgomery, who kicked seven goals from as many attempts to finish with a personal haul of 17 points, said Habana deserved to break Lomu's record.

"Good luck to him. He deserves it. He works hard off the ball. It's a great achievement if he does it," said Montgomery, the tournament's leading points scorer.

South Africa will go into the final as overwhelming favourites to win the Webb Ellis Cup for a second time but Habana said the Springboks were not taking anything for granted.

"There's something really special about this team at the moment but we've still got one more hurdle left for our goal," he said.

"England have improved a lot in the last two matches so what happened five weeks ago will have no bearing at all.

"Jonny (Wilkinson) has come back so it's a totally different ball game.

"It's a win-all or lose-all situation next week. We are very proud of the country to have come this far but we want to go all the way."

it looks like South Africa by 20+ points. cant see how England will live with them, should be good to watch either way so roll on the weekend!

Tankie

I hope your right but this tournament has thrown up one surprise after another, be gutted if Ingerland win it, the media will be working overtime looking for new headlines, the have used all the French ones, the just put Le in front of words to make them sound French, England beat Le Frogs was a typical example

Quote from: darbyo on October 14, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
And who are you to make comment on others. Everybody can't live the 'James Bond like' lifestyle that you apparently live. I'll never understand the need some people feel to make sweeping statements or implied suggestions about others based on flimsy evidence. Whether a late night poster is a socially awkward single 50 year old alcoholic or a 25 year old stud taking a breather from the orgy going on in his bedroom it's none of your business. So unless you've something to add to the topic being discussed keep your opinions to yourself as I'm sure no one cares.

I missed this post - its cheered my up, there are some quare lads who seem to live for this board; the socially awkward I think is in the asendancy.  ;)

Quote from: Square Ball on October 15, 2007, 07:35:59 PM
Tankie

I hope your right but this tournament has thrown up one surprise after another, be gutted if Ingerland win it, the media will be working overtime looking for new headlines, the have used all the French ones, the just put Le in front of words to make them sound French, England beat Le Frogs was a typical example

Lets put it this way, i'd say there is more chance of Pillar leading us to Sam in 08 that England beating South Africa!

Quote from: 5iveTimes on October 15, 2007, 09:39:09 PM

Quote from: Tankie on October 15, 2007, 08:12:48 PM
Lets put it this way, i'd say there is more chance of Pillar leading us to Sam in 08 that England beating South Africa!

England are in the World Cup Final, the Dubs are a long way off getting to An AIF  ;)

Semi - Finals for the past two years, beaten by a point in one and two in another. so i'd say we are alot closer than 30 or so other counties :D

Quote from: 5iveTimes on October 15, 2007, 10:02:03 PM
So Close, but yet so far away.  ;)

but atleast we aint bitter about it, we just take it as it comes ;D

But there is a better chance of England winning the rugby WC than there is of Down winning one championship game next year.

Fotgot about this one, not missing much then.

Missing quite a bit, Argies hammering them now 27-3, France showing all of that old fighting spirit of theirs.
Gotta hand it to the Argies though, they have so much hunger and were 5-1 before kick-off

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2007, 09:48:35 PM
Full Time
Argentina 34
France 10.

Be careful 5iveTimes isnt on to give you the hammer for posting that score.......  ;)

Bloody enjoyable. Love that Argentina team. Reminds me of Bertie Mee's Arsenal.

Decent enough start to the game. 20mins gone SA 6-3 up.

This is a brilliant game! Good to see a close final!! England just denied a try.

England 3-9 RSA

If England lose we'll be watching that footage for a long time!

I don't understand how you're only considered out if your touching the line, surely if your leg is out over the line you're out, end of story?

I would rather watch that footage, than footage of Vickery lifting the cup!

Those ITV commentators are obviously blind.  His foot touched the line before he lifted it.....

TV3 commentary is crap aswell, said the same.

Quote from: Redgreenery on October 20, 2007, 08:59:29 PM
This is a brilliant game! Good to see a close final!! England just denied a try.

England 3-9 RSA

It's hardly a brilliant game

Well it is compared to a good few other sports finals, nice to see a close one. Opinions vary. :-\

Quote from: rory on October 20, 2007, 09:04:46 PM
Those ITV commentators are obviously blind.  His foot touched the line before he lifted it.....

But ITV accepted that, but they were going on that he wasn't physically touching the line when the ball went down and it should have been a try but that's an odd rule.  If you're leg's out surely you're out? Are they saying you could step over the line and if you don't physically touch the line you're still in?  THat can't be right.

12 - 6 now - c'mon SA!

15-6

I think this is an awful game it's hardly free flowing exciting rugby

it aint pretty, but at least its close

Quote from: Estimator on October 20, 2007, 09:23:08 PM
it aint pretty, but at least its close

Might be close on scoreboard but i don't think England look like they can win

Plus i'd rather see England get a hammering  ;D

Is there a more hateful f**ker than Martin Johnston?

I didn't think that they looked like winning against the Aussies or the French.  Unfortunately, an English win cannot be ruled out until the final whistle

Will Greenwood

Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 20, 2007, 09:27:22 PM
Is there a more hateful f**ker than Martin Johnston?

p***k of the highest order

Poor England!

Thank god for that.

We can all sigh a breath of relief now.

So...... was it a try?

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44188000/jpg/_44188778_c416.jpg)

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44188000/jpg/_44188777_cueto4162.jpg)















No :)

South African presdients must have CJH as their model for marking national triumphs, judging by the presentation ceremony!

That was a try. England will milk it for all it's worth

The ref give England nothing according to the BBC news. ::)

Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 20, 2007, 10:16:04 PM
The ref give England nothing according to the BBC news. ::)

I'd agree pints, however the failure of their lineout was the deciding factor.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 20, 2007, 10:16:04 PM
The ref give England nothing according to the BBC news. ::)

Who was saying that POG. I didn't hear it. I thought the English were quite gracious in defeat.

One of the reporters - don't know his name though the one after him said the best team won.

Inglerland lost, ha fecking Ha ha,

Stick your chariot up your.............

Anyone else think that Gordon Brown was probably secretly happy England lost as he shook their hands after the final whistle..Him being a Scot and all

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 21, 2007, 02:08:40 AM
Anyone else think that Gordon Brown was probably secretly happy England lost as he shook their hands after the final whistle..Him being a Scot and all

I dont think so, the same man who said his fav sporting moment was Gasgoine's goal against scotland in 96 :o :o :o

Quote from: bennydorano on October 21, 2007, 02:24:38 AM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 21, 2007, 02:08:40 AM
Anyone else think that Gordon Brown was probably secretly happy England lost as he shook their hands after the final whistle..Him being a Scot and all

I dont think so, the same man who said his fav sporting moment was Gasgoine's goal against scotland in 96 :o :o :o

Did he really say that  :o

I'm afraid he did. He got a lot of flack for that and rightly so. He was trying to win the favour of the English Labour and forgot about the Scottish Labour supporters.

I watched the Down Meath AIF on TG4, much better :), before switching over to the rugby.
England did well, a bit of Dunkirk spirit, clutching victory from a defeat or was it the other way around.

England did very well to reach the final with a poor enough team, if you scrape through all the media hype St Jonny actually had a nondescript tournament and was virtually anonymous in the final.  Significant that the two best players were the youngest on each side, Steyn & Tait.  Had England won it would have set rugby back 20 years to the old Brian Moore tactic of stick it up the jumper and rumble upfield till you get a penalty and win the game 9-3.  England scored one try in the knockout phase, which was a gift from France.  Wales scored 50 points more than England in the tournament and they didn't get out of the pool.  Well done to SA but the people's champs are definintely the Argies!!

Quote from: Aristotle Flynn on October 20, 2007, 10:21:45 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 20, 2007, 10:16:04 PM
The ref give England nothing according to the BBC news. ::)

Who was saying that POG. I didn't hear it. I thought the English were quite gracious in defeat.

What struck me about the match and the world cup in general was how magnanimous rugby players are compared to those spoilt f**king brat football players, Vickery and Wilkinson both said the best team won and refused to make an issue of the try/non try no matter how much they were prompted by the ITV reporters. Can you imagine something similar if something as contoversial happened to their football team? Can you imagine Gerrard/Lampard/Terry etc saying "the best team won" or " the ref/adjudicator made their decision and we have to respect it"?. Martin Johnson also went up in my estimation & Jim Rosenthal went further down, Rosenthal was banging on about the try & Johnson said "looking from that angle it wasnt a try" but the boul Jim wouldnt let it go, he kept banging on about it and Johnson said we should move on from it and dont want to be talking about it in 40 years.

After posting this i saw these quotes from Englands Micah Richards........

"People are now saying England are not good enough but it was a hard game to play in and, apart from those five minutes, you cannot really blame us that much.
I am not going to use the artificial pitch as an excuse but I am not going to lie either - it made a difference. "

Brutal match to end a very poor tournament. SA won handily and I cannot remember one pass going across the back line to Habana or Pietersen. Best player by a country mile was Matfield. Unreal performance by him. England deserve great credit for getting to the final but it says more about the inability of Oz and France than Englands abilities.
I know finals can be poor to watch with fear of losing being the dominant theme but I was very disappointed in it. It wasn't a try either.

QuoteBrutal match to end a very poor tournament.

Th final depended on what you were looking for, I enjoyed it as a very intense physical and mental occasion, the quality of attacking rugby was poor but the defensive effort of both teams was immense.

Overall the tournament was probably too long but there was some cracking games but from the quarter-finals onwards it's the fear of losing that is the over whelming theme. Defence wins you titles I'm afraid..

I agree with Balboa I thought the English players and management team were very magmanimous in defeat and a credit to their sport and their nation. The Irish guys could learn an awful lot from those guys..

And for anyone who hates smug gits I predicted South Africa to win the World Cup and had them at a tasty 6/1  ;D

Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2007, 08:45:59 AM

QuoteBrutal match to end a very poor tournament.

Th final depended on what you were looking for, I enjoyed it as a very intense physical and mental occasion, the quality of attacking rugby was poor but the defensive effort of both teams was immense.

Overall the tournament was probably too long but there was some cracking games but from the quarter-finals onwards it's the fear of losing that is the over whelming theme. Defence wins you titles I'm afraid..

I agree with Balboa I thought the English players and management team were very magmanimous in defeat and a credit to their sport and their nation. The Irish guys could learn an awful lot from those guys..

And for anyone who hates smug gits I predicted South Africa to win the World Cup and had them at a tasty 6/1  ;D

Disappointing final as many have said although I have to agree with Dinny. THe defensive effort from both teams was absilutely outstanding and some of the hitting during the game would have made your bones shudder! As for your bet Dinny, I had a mate who did a double with Habana to be top try scorer! Only problem is he chickened out and threw a few quid on England to cover himself... he has lost all respect I ever had for him.

This worls cup showed that big ignorant MF'er packs win games. The fancy dan backs just decide by how much as the old addage goes.

England have a poor enough set of backs but their pack won and held onto the ball long enough to get them in the right positions to get penalties and drop goals.
The Argies also have an immense pack who didn't spill a lot of ball and kept possession too. They gifted SA the tries in the semi final which led to their own downfall. They were too hyped up as can bee seen from the tears etc during the national anthems. Their back row forwards won a huge amount of turnover ball. If only they'd kept their nerves in the semi I think they'd have won it, but I suppose if the wee dog didn't shit etc, etc,.

SA probably deserved to win it as NZ didn't turn up when the heat was on, so you'd have to say that they were worthy champions in fairness.

Where to now for Ireland and EOS?