That must be some Derry defence - 0-3 against Antrim and 0-1 against Monaghan. They also won every game in the Minor League. I'm sure they'll be hot favourites for this, although the gradual integration of the Omagh CBS Hogan men will help Tyrone. Promises to be a fascinating contest between two high class underage outfits and no matter the outcome, I wouldn't be surprised to see them meet again in September.
Should be a cracker indeed, and that's some impressive defending in those two games (it would appear).
Antrim where as poor a minor team as I have seen and Monaghan where no better. Derry go into the match completly untested. They look a good team but we wont know how good until they are asked a few serious questions. Tyrone struggled early in the year without the Brother's contingent and the Vocational schools players. They have had long enough since to sort out their best team.
It has the makings of a close game with the safety net of another game for the losers. One to watch out for in the derry team is McGeehan, a younger version of Geoffrey who runs straight for goal. James Kielt at CHF is a classy player who will need to be on his game if Derry are to win. The two big midfielders fell asleep a couple of times yesterday and will need to be sharper the next day. Actually, its one of the biggest minor teams I have ever seen.
Did Kielt play at CHF against Antrim? Its hard to believe that Down beat Cavan, then Monaghan beat Down and obviously Derry then beat them. What does it say for the others. This si a good Derry team. I have to say I really like Moores movement and handling.
Max,
Kielt played as a 3rd midfielder against Antrim if I mind right, im just about dried out so I caould be wrong. He can play at midfield, CHF or FF and be equally effective. Niall Conway could do better with the seniors than the current incumbent imo.
Kielt was playing No 8 against Antrim. Was the class act on show that day, but there were several yesterday. McGeehan was excellent - wins a lot of high ball against taller opponents.
Quote from: oakleafgael on June 25, 2007, 12:08:24 PM
Niall Conway could do better with the seniors than the current incumbent imo.
Surely things cant be that bad?? Niall Conway for Derry manager??
This could be a cracker. Havent saw Derry play but apparently they are a good team. Tyrone have been impressive enough in the two games I have saw them play. Gavin McGeehan is a good player alright and will be worth watching - saw him play a few times for Ballinderry at underage level.
Any updates on this fixture? Injuries or recoveries?
Not much noise coming out of either camp before the match on Sunday. Derry are due to name their team on Thursday night so more should be revealed then. Any news from the Redhands? I think that one of these two wont be far away in September.
Watch out for the battering ram Mc Geehan - a very strong lad for his age - he'll be very dangerous and will find the net if given half an opportunity.
No hot favourites - Derry 5/6, Tyrone 6/5, 7/1 Draw - or a one point handicap with Tyrone favourites. Should be live on site by morning.
8/11 Derry and 1/1 Tyrone to take the title.
Apologies for the plug, but just in case ye were interested....
I'm suprised the medja haven't picked up on the fact, or at least from what I could see, that the captain of Tyrone minors Aidan Gervin plays for Rock in division 3 of the Tyrone ACL.
The manager of Rock? Niall Conway who manages Derry minors this weekend!
your boy moore impressed me from what i have seen so far
Anyone know where I can hear a live commentary on this game?
seems to be a bit of controversy over a point in this game that wasn't a point, anyone seen it?
who won?
Tyrone by a point in the 2 min of injury time
Tyrone 0-10......Derry 1-6
Unfortunate that yet again a talented Derry squad are robbed of at least a chance of a replay in another big game after the Cork debacle a few years back. Doubtful Tyrone will offer a replay, so it's now up to Derry to push on and win through the back door.
According to RTE, Derry management are protesting over a point that was given but common consenses was that it was wide> Good luck to them.
When they have had a chance to see the replay and think about I would hope that Tyrone do the decent thing and offer a replay. It would be very bad form if they didn't
Quote from: Louth Exile on July 15, 2007, 05:56:26 PM
When they have had a chance to see the replay and think about I would hope that Tyrone do the decent thing and offer a replay. It would be very bad form if they didn't
never have i heard of any team offering a replay when there is a disputed point. they are still in the competition at the end of the day. as jerome quinn said on bbc, it is rare for those sort of appeals to succeed and i wouldnt expect this one to either.
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 15, 2007, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: Louth Exile on July 15, 2007, 05:56:26 PM
When they have had a chance to see the replay and think about I would hope that Tyrone do the decent thing and offer a replay. It would be very bad form if they didn't
never have i heard of any team offering a replay when there is a disputed point. they are still in the competition at the end of the day. as jerome quinn said on bbc, it is rare for those sort of appeals to succeed and i wouldnt expect this one to either.
Wasn't there an Leinster senior match about ten years ago where Laois or someone offered a replay over a point that wasn't?
As with all these incidents though, where do you draw the line? What about the square ball or overcarrying goals that we've seen quite a few times this season, including Dublin's first goal today?
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2007, 06:15:21 PM
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 15, 2007, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: Louth Exile on July 15, 2007, 05:56:26 PM
When they have had a chance to see the replay and think about I would hope that Tyrone do the decent thing and offer a replay. It would be very bad form if they didn't
never have i heard of any team offering a replay when there is a disputed point. they are still in the competition at the end of the day. as jerome quinn said on bbc, it is rare for those sort of appeals to succeed and i wouldnt expect this one to either.
Wasn't there an Leinster senior match about ten years ago where Laois or someone offered a replay over a point that wasn't?
As with all these incidents though, where do you draw the line? What about the square ball or overcarrying goals that we've seen quite a few times this season, including Dublin's first goal today?
Laois offered Carlow a replay after winning by a point - one of the points was shown to have gone the wrong side of the post. Laois won the replay comfortably - but I guess they knew they would anyway - the underdog normally only gets one bite at the cherry.
As for today - it sounds like two very evenly matched teams. In a perfect world, Tyrone would offer a replay. We don't live in a perfect world though, and if Armagh were in the same position, I would be dead against a replay being offered, with the distinct possibility of the title being lost!
That's tough on Derry - hopefully they can use the injustice to their benefit later.
Congrats to Tyrone by the way.
Bummer,
I could mention Daisy McDermott and the goal in the dark at Casement Park. Whataboutery aside, all things being fair Derry would be offered a replay. I dont expect it to happen nor am I sure if the show was on the other foot would I be in favour. Im just glad that Derry get another chance as we were the better team on the day in my opinion. Some nice prospects on both teams.
The real villian in the piece here is the incompetent umpire. I didnt see the incident clearly myself but having talked to people who seen it on t.v. Im not a happy camper. It could maybe be forgiven if the "point" had been above the posts but it was barely above the bar and couldnt have been anymore than 5 feet above the umpires head. I thought that the officials at this level would be of a higher standard, we dont expect Pat McEneaney doing umpire but at the very least a man that can judge if a shot has went over the bar or not.
Tyrone didnt appeal when they had 2 men sent off in the 05 ulster senior final that were later over turned or when the Redmond didnt go of after being sent off in the 95 final. Nobody offered a replay then and i dont think Tyrone will be offering one now. There are many 50 50 calls in a game and you have to take the rough with the smooth. Is there proof the point actually was wide at this stage or are Derry just presuming cause one of the umpires initially signalled wide? Dont see how a replay would benifit either team as they are both in the quarters and may have to play again in the semis.
Dreamer,
I think that there is very clear t.v. evidence that it went the wrong side of the post about 10 feet above the ground.
Clearly wide.
It's a hard one to make fair, as teams could ask for replays for every single little incident in a game.
take yer beating derry - always cryin and whingin about something.
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 15, 2007, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: Louth Exile on July 15, 2007, 05:56:26 PM
When they have had a chance to see the replay and think about I would hope that Tyrone do the decent thing and offer a replay. It would be very bad form if they didn't
never have i heard of any team offering a replay when there is a disputed point. they are still in the competition at the end of the day. as jerome quinn said on bbc, it is rare for those sort of appeals to succeed and i wouldnt expect this one to either.
Laois played Carlow again back in the '90's after a Laois point was givin and it had gone wide
Couldn't see it from where we were sitting but never even knew it was disputed until after the game. Only realised something was up when Minor Management were going crazy at linesman for some reason. (obv that was it)
Realistically Tyrone should have won far more comfortably. Derry got cleaned out at midfield non-stop without a single change being made!
Only to move the best player(Kielt) into Full-Forward when no ball was even going in!
The defence was again fierce, pity the management insist on such negative play when they have plenty of good forwards.
Derry's Full Back line were awsome, Mckinney and McWilliams, mopped up everything.
Tyrone's Midfield in Particular #9 from Ardboe were a class act.
Don't see that it makes much difference who wins Ulster, think they'll probably meet again in the All Ireland semi (if they're as good as is made out), and I also think Derry should give it up - sure use it as motivation for the next time.
yeah i don't the benefit in an appeal. Would just mean another game with both teams neither any further down the line.
As you say bog, if Derry are going to go on and win it, they're gonna have to beat teams like Cork anyway.
There's no way the appeal will succeed anyway.
QuoteThe real villian in the piece here is the incompetent umpire. I didnt see the incident clearly myself but having talked to people who seen it on t.v. Im not a happy camper. It could maybe be forgiven if the "point" had been above the posts but it was barely above the bar and couldnt have been anymore than 5 feet above the umpires head. I thought that the officials at this level would be of a higher standard, we dont expect Pat McEneaney doing umpire but at the very least a man that can judge if a shot has went over the bar or not.
Sure there was a similar incident a couple of years ago when Armagh minors played Monaghan I think?
I can't remember exactly now but I think a clear armagh point was put down as a wide, the match was a draw, armagh didn't appeal but won the replay.
A joke that something similar can happen again!
Just seen it on telly. Shocking decision. The ball wasn't even that high. At least when the ball is sent high over the top off the post it can sometimes be difficult to tell but this one was clearly wide and only about a yard over the crossbar.
Had it happened in the last few minutes an appeal would be more understandable, and in any case it has no chance of going anywhere. Perhaps it's more for the appearance of defending the players. The truth is that Derry weren't good enough to outscore that point, they were totally outplayed in the 2nd half, and only for poor Tyrone shooting they'd have been hammered. As my Derry brother-in-law might say, they should take their oil!
It'd be great motivation for Doire if they accepted it and then used it to get that extra dander up. Derry and Tyrone will meet again. The best 2 minor sides around.
just seen on sunday game that its impossible to have a game replayed due to a wrong decision in terms of giving a point that was wide! so derrys protest is pointless, prob will meet again l8r in the summer anyway
Sounds like Derry being sore losers to me. If the 'point' had been the winning point at the end of the match, it would have been different. Coming in the first half, it's pretty irrelevant.
If the game had ended in a draw, would Derry have appealed?
A replay wont do anyone any good. I actually think that if the teams meet at the semi stage it will be Tyrone who will take the extra motivation from todays events. Derry have created a big fuss which in some way has taken away from Tyrones victory, which will be used to fire the Tyrone boys up if they meet again. Perhaps if Derry hadnt played 7 defenders throughout the match theyd have got enough scores to win.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 15, 2007, 11:00:32 PM
Sounds like Derry being sore losers to me. If the 'point' had been the winning point at the end of the match, it would have been different. Coming in the first half, it's pretty irrelevant.
How would it have been different? Regardless of when it happened, it made the difference between winning and drawing, full stop!
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2007, 11:04:20 PM
If the game had ended in a draw, would Derry have appealed?
Probably not, because they would still have the opportunity to win the Ulster title, which is all they are seeking now.
Tyrone should claim the higher moral ground and offer a replay. Why should we fear a team everyone on this forum are convinced we should have beaten convincingly in any case? If we don't offer the replay and meet them later in the series, they will surely have a huge incentive to gain revenge.
Have all the posters who are saying they should accept the result considered how we'd feel tonight had the shoe been on the other foot?
Quote from: Red Nose Red Hand on July 15, 2007, 11:19:43 PM
Have all the posters who are saying they should accept the result considered how we'd feel tonight had the shoe been on the other foot?
Both teams are in an All-Ireland Quarter Final - the exact same stage.
You're setting a dangerous precedent here. What if a square-ball had been given when cameras proved it wasn't? What if a goalkeeper was adjudged to step over the line yet we see later he didn't? Mistakes are made (as in Derry/Cavan '97) but you get on with it. Luckily, now, the losing finalists are afforded a second chance.
I think its time the GAA took a more youthful approach to match day officials.I may be wrong this time but in general i would say that most umpires would be of mature years & not having 20/20 eyesight,which should be a basic requiement for such an important role in any inter-county fixture.
I havent seen the game or the point in question but I wouldnt be overly surprised if a replay was ordered.
With the number of issues taken to the Disputes Resolution Committe over thing like suspensions and video evidence, there is every possibility the same could be done here.
I've read some people saying Derry should just use it as motivation....the players would want an Ulster title every bit as much as the Tryone players do. You couldnt blame then for feeling hard done by if the point was so obviously not a point.
Difficult one to call and I know in the past nothing would have happened, but as I said in this day and age when solicitors are handling these sort of things for players and teams anything could happen.
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 15, 2007, 05:17:49 PM
According to RTE, Derry management are protesting over a point that was given but common consenses was that it was wide> Good luck to them.
Was talking to the minor management this evening. The first they heard of an appeal was on the bus home. They never asked for an appeal. Obviously our county board have seen headlines again, and want some themselves.
Both teams are in an All-Ireland Quarter Final - the exact same stage.
You're setting a dangerous precedent here. What if a square-ball had been given when cameras proved it wasn't? What if a goalkeeper was adjudged to step over the line yet we see later he didn't? Mistakes are made (as in Derry/Cavan '97) but you get on with it. Luckily, now, the losing finalists are afforded a second chance.
[/quote]
I appreciate that they are in the same stage; but Tyrone players have Ulster medals in their pockets and Derry have nothing, even though the teams actually achieved the same score today. Our players deserve to be able to show off their medals to their grandchildren knowing they won them fairly and squarely - and not because of being given the decisive score because some guy with defective eyesight was given a white coat, instead of a white stick.
The examples you quote don't equate to what happened in today's match. Unlike those, the decision today wasn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of absolute fact. The rules apparently cover this case very clearly and say no objection can be successfully lodged, but this is only to cover their backside in case such as today's where trophies and medals are handed over and it would be hugely embarrassing to ask for them back.
Can Lone Shark confirm that bets have been paid out on successful internet wagers, incidentally?
QuoteThe examples you quote don't equate to what happened in today's match. Unlike those, the decision today wasn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of absolute fact.
That's nonsense. How can video proof be opinion? If video shows that a FF was not in the box and scored a goal, whilst the ref disallowed it, that's fact.
Today the umpire's 'opinion' was that the ball was over. He was wrong. Human error.
Quote from: mournerambler on July 15, 2007, 11:37:36 PM
I think its time the GAA took a more youthful approach to match day officials.I may be wrong this time but in general i would say that most umpires would be of mature years & not having 20/20 eyesight,which should be a basic requiement for such an important role in any inter-county fixture.
I've often thought that some of the umpires round today should be put out to grass. Many of them seem to be well on the way to receiving their free bus pass and on top of that are often trying to shift enormous porter bellies in order to get into position to judge on a score.
When you see the umpires in Ausse Rules they often look like fairly fit guys in their late 20's and 30's. Presumably trainee refs.
Not that being younger and slimmer stops you from making mistakes but it can't help if you're a bit doddery and have mobility issues due to trying to fit your gut inside a white coat bursting at the seams.
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2007, 11:54:25 PM
QuoteThe examples you quote don't equate to what happened in today's match. Unlike those, the decision today wasn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of absolute fact.
That's nonsense. How can video proof be opinion? If video shows that a FF was not in the box and scored a goal, whilst the ref disallowed it, that's fact.
Today the umpire's 'opinion' was that the ball was over. He was wrong. Human error.
Can you not appreciate that there is a difference between a score being allowed or disallowed, rightly or wrongly, and one being awarded which simply was not a score because it was outside the post? One is down to opinion, the other is a simple fact.
You don't understand. There is no difference. Either it was or it wasn't. Opinion in GAA is only used correctly with discipline issues. Fact is black or white. The umpire's opinion was that it was a point. He was wrong. Camera angles showed that. Fact. The same thing can happen with penalties inside and outside the box - cameras can confirm fact or not.
Talk about dodgy umpires ,what about Mickey Hughes and his performance in the Dublin v Laois game today , bad call in relation to theDublin goal , a performance that Tyrone people have to put up with most weekends .
Congratulations to Tyrone minors and a hard luck call for Derry at least they are still in the back door. As for what happened yesterday it wqas a disgrace the way the cameras were positioned beheind that goal infringing into the field of play and taking up essential umpiring room behind the goals. 2 questions:
1) Will BBC / RTE pay heavy fans for infringement on the field of play as you would have to if you were a participant.
2) Will BBC / RTE apologise to the Derry county board admitting their belief that the cameras interfered with the unpiring function ensuring that a mistake was likely to happen - On a brighter note the improved camera angles will let us highlight that mistake better on TV.
Who is responsible for keeping the paparazzi off our goalkeepers bald patches?
Tommy Lyons reckoned it didn't matter because it happened in the first half. If it had happened near the end, it would be a problem, he said. That's an exciting new interpretation of the rules, whereby scores in the first half are far less important than those in the second – hardly worth anything at all, it seems.
I'm not clear about the ratio – maybe it's that first half scores are worth 25% of second half ones. Whatever the rule is, I'm glad the ref in our match on Saturday didn't know about it. We led 7-4 at half time and 11-9 at the end. If the new rule had been applied we'd have lost by six points to five and three quarters.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 15, 2007, 11:57:09 PMI've often thought that some of the umpires round today should be put out to grass. Many of them seem to be well on the way to receiving their free bus pass and on top of that are often trying to shift enormous porter bellies in order to get into position to judge on a score.
When you see the umpires in Ausse Rules they often look like fairly fit guys in their late 20's and 30's. Presumably trainee refs.
Not that being younger and slimmer stops you from making mistakes but it can't help if you're a bit doddery and have mobility issues due to trying to fit your gut inside a white coat bursting at the seams.
I was umpire at a few club matches last year, and I'll be honest, I didn't have a clue if the ball was inside or outside the post on the majority of occasions (I am including the relatively clearcut points here too). I tried standing behind the goals etc too as the ball went over, but it's difficult to get it right. I made the calls based on the reactions of the players, those shooting and defending - truth is, the ref was normally in the best position to see anyway - don't know what I'm rambling on about here, maybe I'm proposing electronic umpiring - how hard can it be??
That's interesting Bogball. I've never heard that before and we all assume umpiring is easy. I admit I've never done it, but I've always assumed the problem is in the umpire's positioning. You need to be located differently as the ball comes in depending on where it's played from, whether it's high, low, etc. In most cases, I'd assume you need to keep the space between the posts in your line of vision to the ball – i.e umpires should be standing behind the goal, looking through the posts at the position of the ball, not standing on the line outside the posts. . However, for a high ball above the posts that's also curling, the only way you can tell if it's inside or outside the post as it crosses the plane of the posts is to be positioned right by the post and looking up.
I'd be interested to hear which scores (or misses) caused you the most problems.,
Any truth in the rumour the Tyrone legal team are examining the rules on near misses/wides just in case rheir boys are asked for the medals to be returned. With their success rate in legal challenges Derry would be better to admit now that the ball went over the bar
Derry would be wasting their time with an appeal. By the time it would be over Fergal Logan would have the authorities convinced the ball went over the bar anyway. Legend.
well done tyrone minors
Once the whistle is blown the game is over.
Thats it. No court room challenges , no change of result.
OK if a team offers a replay, then the opposition can decide to accept this or not, but I most def would not be expecting or waiting and wanting tyrone to do this.
Thats football, thats how it always was, and these court room struggles have no place in the GAA
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 16, 2007, 12:21:11 PM
OK if a team offers a replay, then the opposition can decide to accept this or not, but I most def would not be expecting or waiting and wanting tyrone to do this.
An extra game at this stage would do neither team any favours, in the wider scheme of things (All-Ireland).
Just up on BBC:
QuoteRed Hands admit point was error
Tyrone's Cormac Arkinson scored the controversial point at Clones
Derry's bid to have the Ulster MFC final replayed has been boosted after Tyrone officials admitted that a point awarded in the first half was a wide.
Television replays have confirmed that Cormac Arkinson's effort did not go between the uprights.
The score decided the outcome in the end, the Red Hands scraping through on a 0-10 to 1-6 scoreline.
Tyrone boss Raymond Munroe said he thought it was a wide but believes the result should stand.
He added: "To be quite honest, I thought it didn't go over the bar. There are officials out there, it's not my part to play.
"Everybody makes mistakes - it's a tough call, if it didn't go over the bar, but there are officials out there to act on that, five officials there in that area.
"I can't change that. If we did win it with a point like that then that's unfortunate.
"But we have been on the end of bad decisions many times as well. It's cruel, but that's football."
Derry chairman Seamus McCloy has confirmed that an appeal will be lodged with the Ulster Council.
He believes that a replay would be the most appropriate way to settle the controversy.
"If the video evidence is as clear as everything else is, we will certainly be protesting," he said.
"I think that would be Tyrone's opinion as well. No-one wants to win a game by a wide ball, and it was a totally wide ball.
Cathal McCrory's injury-time point earned Tyrone victory at Clones.
Derry looked set to have earned a replay when James Kielt hit two late points to bring the sides level.
However, McCrory then fired over the towering winning score.
Gavin McGeehan scored Derry's goal in the first half.
Both sides will advance to the All-Ireland quarter-finals irrespective of the outcome of the provincial final.
Quote from: Bogball XV on July 16, 2007, 11:48:34 AM
I was umpire at a few club matches last year, and I'll be honest, I didn't have a clue if the ball was inside or outside the post on the majority of occasions (I am including the relatively clearcut points here too).
Holy Jaysus. Have you rang Vision Express by any chance?
Quote from: ONeill on July 16, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
Fact is black or white. The umpire's opinion was that it was a point. He was wrong. Camera angles showed that. Fact.
You just defeated your own argument, with that clarification of tyhe difference between opinion and fact. Thanks, it's a fact that it was a wide ball. Tyrone and Derry scored the same. So how can Tyrone accept their medals and why should they feel entitled to keep the cup. Offer a replay!
It's tough luck on the Derry minors but that's life. The game is over and no replay should be awarded.
Officials make mistakes, In the Munster senior final the umpire went for a flag from a free about 1 foot wide.
The problem lies with the ref having his best mates as umpires, for championship games umpires should be trained in where to stand in relation to where the ball is.
The should always have the ball in line with the post. In the Munster minor final Cork got a point from a shot about a foot wide as well, It's tough but that's sport.
This problem occurs year after year and nothing seems to be done about it.
Quote from: Red Nose Red Hand on July 16, 2007, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 16, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
Fact is black or white. The umpire's opinion was that it was a point. He was wrong. Camera angles showed that. Fact.
You just defeated your own argument, with that clarification of tyhe difference between opinion and fact. Thanks, it's a fact that it was a wide ball. Tyrone and Derry scored the same. So how can Tyrone accept their medals and why should they feel entitled to keep the cup. Offer a replay!
So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.
The umpires could not stand in the right place because of the ridiculous bbc/rte cameras. As for Tyrone Ive always felt we should appeal the mistakes of 1995 or indeed the Ulster final 2005. Unfortunately its a bitter pill for Derry to swallow but its not tyrone fault either.
[/quote]
So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.
[/quote]
Matters such as those are open to interpretation of rules. This one is not.
Quote from: Red Nose Red Hand on July 16, 2007, 02:06:28 PM
So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.
[/quote]
Matters such as those are open to interpretation of rules. This one is not.
[/quote]
What? A square ball is a square ball and, just as the umpire yesterday, it's up to the officials to spot it. If a forward scores a goal from 15m out and the ref, who's well off the pace, wrongly and mysteriously blows for a square ball, even though everyone in the ground and at home knows it wasn't - do you offer a replay?
What I'm saying is that you cannot offer replays for human error or you'll set a dangerous precedent. Balls that were miles over the goalline but not given etc....
Quote from: Red Nose Red Hand on July 16, 2007, 02:06:28 PM
Quote
So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.
Matters such as those are open to interpretation of rules. This one is not.
Would disagree there RNRH, if the camera shows an opposing player inside the parallelogram before the ball, that's decisive proof, but can no more be revisited after the game than this particular incident can.
What's with the OAP's doing empire for the big matches neways? Surely they can grab a few neutral young cubs to do the job! Don't wanna hear this crap about tv cameras getting in the way neither. Not bloody rocket science to see whether a ball has gone over the bar or not!!!
bwtween what hapned in the minor match and the likes of the few sqaure ball incidents wve had this year the gaa seriously needs to put more of an emphasis on the job an umpire has to do. they arent there for decoration. if the referee had made such a balls-up he'd be under scrutiny from every corner of the county but when some eejit cant see a ball 6ft away from him theres somethin seriously wrong. umpires are part of the refereeing team and need to be more involved and make more accurate decisions. THAT IS THEIR JOB. as for tyrone offering a replay i doubt they will and why would they? i know its not the same as winnin ulster but at least derry are still in the running.
Isn't it ridiculous that after an Ulster minor final in Clones ( yes, Ulster final - not a wee league game between two club sides )that the main topic of conversation is whether it was a point or not - most people agree that it was a wide - in fact I don;t think that sanyone disagrees - so more importantly what can we do to prevent this from happening again - it's a shame in thin 2007 that we can't decide if a ball is over the ball or not !
Quote from: orangeman on July 16, 2007, 03:22:02 PM
Isn't it ridiculous that after an Ulster minor final in Clones ( yes, Ulster final - not a wee league game between two club sides )that the main topic of conversation is whether it was a point or not - most people agree that it was a wide - in fact I don;t think that sanyone disagrees - so more importantly what can we do to prevent this from happening again - it's a shame in thin 2007 that we can't decide if a ball is over the ball or not !
my point exactly orangeman. its a disgrace that these incidents are even happening! i wouldnt mind questioning the umpire beside that post to see what the hell he was actually doing! if its his eyesight then he shouldnt be there in the 1st place. and again just to point out im not now concerned with a replay or the fact that derry lost its the principle! this could and more than likely will happen again and again and again. and god knows it could be a vital one in an all ireland semi or somethin! it needs sorted now.
As stated in a previous post, if a referee made such a balls-up he would be scrutinised heavily. It was mentioned earlier that most umpires are old buggers, which is fairly true. They seem to be picked by the referee, but the majority of umpires don't seem to have a clue. Having seen the replay of the 'score' it really is bemusing how someone standing at that post made the wrong call - also it is becoming far too common that referee's don't over-rule. How the hell could the referee not see that it was wide, surely 2 umpires and the referee aren't that incompotent. Far too often now is blunders like this deciding matches. The square ball rule as mentioned is a constant problem, action definitely needs to be taken soon. Also, it seems the norm now for a player to receive a tick everytime a foul is committed.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43999000/jpg/_43999851_minor4_300jpg.jpg)
Is that an Orangeman sitting behind the goals? :o
what's the draw for the Quarter Finals now?
edit: doesn't matter - found it
You're right ! What the hell was he doing there ? This Good Friday agreement thing is just mad - the Sinners and DUP are really taking the piss now ! There's a rumour that Paisley rang Mickey Harte last week and Mickey has asked him to be assistant manager - he'll be along the line for the quater final - And if that's not bad enough, Fr. G. Mc Aleer is being joined by Rev. Mc Crea !!!!
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 16, 2007, 07:13:48 PM
I've found that the best position to be at is to take two-three side steps out from the post and then two steps back.
I thought that would be obvious to most people but you still see umpires rooted to the post when a ball is sailing over the bar. To give yourself any hope at all you have to take yourself back a few yards so you're at least in a better position to judge.
I think you can forgive umpires on the odd occasion when a ball sails high over a post because they can be hard to judge at the best of times but the one in the Tyrone/Derry minor game was a joke. The ball was only a yard higher than the crossbar. How that was missed is beyond me.
All that's needed there is a degree of mobility, just to manouevre yourself as the ball's coming in. If you're physically incapable of being that dynamic, then you should not be umpiring.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2007, 07:36:39 PM
All that's needed there is a degree of mobility, just to manouevre yourself as the ball's coming in. If you're physically incapable of being that dynamic, then you should not be umpiring.
3 Requirements for umpires -
- Friend of Ref
- bad Eyesight
- large girth so white coat can just about button over it.
I saw an umpire in Healy Park and Croke Park last year ( the same guy ) and they had to delay the throw in to allow him time to get to the top goals, he was that big !
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2007, 08:37:23 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2007, 07:36:39 PM
All that's needed there is a degree of mobility, just to manouevre yourself as the ball's coming in. If you're physically incapable of being that dynamic, then you should not be umpiring.
3 Requirements for umpires -
- Friend of Ref
- bad Eyesight
- large girth so white coat can just about button over it.
;D ;D
The high looping ones aren't too bad, it's the more driven shots that are the problem - if it's from 20-30yds, you don't get time to get into position behind the goals, if it's close to the post you're standing at, forget it - I think you just have to look at the reaction of the players (you'll at least be able to see the genuine reaction on their faces as soon as the shot is taken).
Another thing I saw recently, was the suggestion that the posts be a different colour than the ball, and that's a pretty good idea imo.
Here's an idea re yesterday.
I think replying the game would be a bad move for both sides, as it would inflict another tough game on both prior to the QF series. Therefore why don't both teams advance as is, however ask the Ulster Council for permission to reply the game to decide the 2007 Ulster champions after the AI final, or if both teams have been eliminated.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 16, 2007, 09:56:32 PM
Another game could fit into the space between now and the quarter finals and would be better than a challenge game or training. However, any more injuries would be a major problem.
That would be the danger, and too big a risk (for both teams) at this stage I feel.
feel sorry for Derry but they will have to move on . Umpires need to improve . a few weeks ago we had in Killarney this is going to happen at another game soon , I have done the job at club matches and it is harder than I thouht it would be as the natural inclination is to watch the game as a spectator
What's the QF draw, and when are they being played?
Having just seen the replay of the wide that wasn't, what course of action is open to Derry?
Can a replay be ordered from above?
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on July 16, 2007, 10:46:58 PM
QuoteCan a replay be ordered from above?
An emphatic no
Then why are Derry appealing?
Quote from: Elias on July 16, 2007, 10:51:56 PM
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on July 16, 2007, 10:46:58 PM
QuoteCan a replay be ordered from above?
An emphatic no
Then why are Derry appealing?
Cos they're afeard Paddy Heaney will lambaste them.
What's the latest with this story?
I thought I heard Spillane read out the rules which confirmed they cannot appeal?
If this is the case why have the media not confirmed this?
There's nothing printed since Monday & even though Tyrone admit it was wide, the manager does not want a replay as per BBC below
Tyrone boss Raymond Munroe said he thought it was a wide but believes the result should stand.
He added: "To be quite honest, I thought it didn't go over the bar. There are officials out there, it's not my part to play.
"Everybody makes mistakes - it's a tough call, if it didn't go over the bar, but there are officials out there to act on that, five officials there in that area.
"I can't change that. If we did win it with a point like that then that's unfortunate.
"But we have been on the end of bad decisions many times as well. It's cruel, but that's football."
That ball was definitely wide
just up on BBC this afternoon:
QuoteDerry fail to have final replayed
Derry have failed in their bid to have the Ulster Minor Football Championship final against Tyrone replayed.
The Oak Leaf county board had lodged an objection into the result of the game on the grounds that a point awarded to Tyrone in the first half had gone wide.
The Red Hands went on to win the game by a single point, with the help of an injury-time score.
A meeting of the Ulster Council's Competitions Control Committee decided the objection could not be dealt with.
"The referees report for the Ulster Minor Football Championship Final was adopted and in accordance with Rule, the committee confirmed the result of the game," said Ulster PRO Michael Hasson.
and on RTE:
QuoteDerry fail in Ulster Minor appeal
Wednesday, 25 July 2007 16:09
Derry have failed in their bid to have the Ulster Minor Football Championship final against Tyrone replayed.
The Oak Leaf county board had lodged an objection into the result of the game on the grounds that a point awarded to Tyrone in the first half had gone wide.
The Red Hands went on to win the game by a single point, with the help of an injury-time score.
A meeting of the Ulster Council's Competitions Control Committee decided that the objection from Derry could not be dealt with, in accordance with Rule 151 (n) T.O. 2007.
'The referees report for the Ulster Minor Football Championship Final, Derry v Tyrone was adopted and in accordance with Rule, the committee confirmed the result of the game,' said Ulster PRO Michael Hasson.
Case closed!
As I said before - It's over when it's over ! And now it's over !