Kerry have not beaten Dublin in championship since 2009, Dublin have won the last three championship encounters, 2 finals and 1 semi. Kerry the media darlings and former aristocrats will be chomping at the bit for this one. Dublin don't look at the races, Kerry could nip this one.
Discussing this today and a few of us had similar feelings that Dublin might give Kerry a bit of a hiding!!
Should be a good match
If Kerry get Buckley/Maher/Moran back into the middle of the field and Donaghy back to his prime area of on the square - they'll be ready for battle. Kerry are 12 months getting ready for this game (forget about the league final).
Have a feeling Kerry will win this.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 08, 2016, 06:38:48 PM
If Kerry get Buckley/Maher/Moran back into the middle of the field and Donaghy back to his prime area of on the square - they'll be ready for battle. Kerry are 12 months getting ready for this game (forget about the league final).
Add Sheehan in there and you have a dangerous mixture of players with zero pace and zero mobility in key positions.
The Dubs will glide by them.
What Kerry need at midfield is a couple of Donnchadh Walsh clones.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 08, 2016, 07:26:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 08, 2016, 06:38:48 PM
If Kerry get Buckley/Maher/Moran back into the middle of the field and Donaghy back to his prime area of on the square - they'll be ready for battle. Kerry are 12 months getting ready for this game (forget about the league final).
Add Sheehan in there and you have a dangerous mixture of players with zero pace and zero mobility in key positions.
The Dubs will glide by them.
What Kerry need at midfield is a couple of Donnchadh Walsh clones.
Wouldnt put Buckley into that list. Sheehan looks overweight and his performance against Clare should keep him on the bench.
Kerry should go with a two man FF line of Geaney & O'Donoghue and have O'Sullivan play between the HF and FF line, both to attack from deep and act as a support runner for the likes of Geaney who is a great target man.
Cooper at CF, but I would give him license to drift into the FF line and rotate with O'Sullivan as I don't think he has the legs for 70 minutes around the middle third.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Kerry were to win this match. Dublin have been over hyped and are on a long unbeaten run in League & championship (something like 27 wins in a row) but this will all suit Kerry and I think they are vulnerable. Kerry's forwards are dangerous, Geaney is one of the best forwards in the country this year and O'Donoghue is back fit and if those 2 can perform Kerry have a great chance. This is a game where Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey, O'Carroll and possibly McCarthy. I wouldn't like to call the result either way yet but I think it will be close and I don't see the gulf between Dublin and Kerry that others do. Kerry need to match Dublin for athleticism and mobility however and that means no starting places for the likes of Donaghy, Sheehan or O'Mahoney.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 09, 2016, 10:54:43 AM
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Kerry were to win this match. Dublin have been over hyped and are on a long unbeaten run in League & championship (something like 27 wins in a row) but this will all suit Kerry and I think they are vulnerable. Kerry's forwards are dangerous, Geaney is one of the best forwards in the country this year and O'Donoghue is back fit and if those 2 can perform Kerry have a great chance. This is a game where Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey, O'Carroll and possibly McCarthy. I wouldn't like to call the result either way yet but I think it will be close and I don't see the gulf between Dublin and Kerry that others do. Kerry need to match Dublin for athleticism and mobility however and that means no starting places for the likes of Donaghy, Sheehan or O'Mahoney.
The problem for Kerry is they don't have the athletic players to replace Donaghy, Sheehan etc. Even in the Qtr final with the game won Fitzmaurice was bringing on the likes of Marc O'Se and Sheehan rather than younger players.
Kerry have both mobility problems and pyschological problems when it comes to Dublin.
I would be very surprised if they beat them. I do think Kerry would beat Mayo in the final but at the same time I think Mayo have a much better chance of beating Dublin as they don't seem to have the same fear of Dublin that Kerry have at this time.
Dublin are good, but over-hyped.
They are not as good as last year as they are short 3 all-star defenders. Also, McAuley is not playing well and Fenton might have a broken jaw. Their strength is their forward line, and their bench.
Kerry need to match their mobility so team selection is crucial. But I have a sneaking feeling that the Kerry forwards can get the better of the Dublin defence, and Dublin are not so good when the game is not going their way.
Let the amateur psychology begin in earnest.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 09, 2016, 10:54:43 AM
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Kerry were to win this match. Dublin have been over hyped and are on a long unbeaten run in League & championship (something like 27 wins in a row) but this will all suit Kerry and I think they are vulnerable. Kerry's forwards are dangerous, Geaney is one of the best forwards in the country this year and O'Donoghue is back fit and if those 2 can perform Kerry have a great chance. This is a game where Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey, O'Carroll and possibly McCarthy. I wouldn't like to call the result either way yet but I think it will be close and I don't see the gulf between Dublin and Kerry that others do. Kerry need to match Dublin for athleticism and mobility however and that means no starting places for the likes of Donaghy, Sheehan or O'Mahoney.
I think that's a bit of an oxymoron.
Dublin will win comfortably . They are on another level to all other teams physically . Kerry and Mayo are like young Munster and the dubs are all blacks .
They sheer conditioning of Dublin team puts them on another level . Kerry will try to keep score down and hope for a break . The gap that has crystallised between these two teams in just 5 years is amazing .
Kerry will need to match Dublin in the middle third, and that's hard to see happening. They won't play 13 behind the ball, which means positions will be slightly more orthodox, but I can't see how Kerry will negate the athleticism of the middle third for Dublin. David Moran is probably as athletic as Fenton, but McCauley would run someone like Maher or Sheehan or Donaghy into the ground. It might be an option to have a Donnacha Walsh on McAuley. Darren O'Sullivan will run and track all day, so he'd be okay for Small or Kilkenny if Kilkenny plays in the half back line, but I don't think Stephen O'Brien would do as much on the other side. Gooch has to be a luxury player, he can't allow himself to be picked up by McMahon or Johnny Cooper and end up following them up the field. I'd almost tell Gooch to operate as an 'attacking sweeper' and try just float around the 40 to get on ball and feed the inside lads of Geaney and O'Donoghue. Tell the Kerry half forwards and half backs that an overlapping Cooper or McMahon is their responsibility. Paul Murphy might do a man marking job on Connolly, and possibly Marc Griffin might play centre back, and hold the centre, let Murphy as the nominal 'sweeper' pick up Connolly. Enright and Young or Begley will have to go man to man on Brogan and Rock. I don't think Kerry have the legs, but if they do the usual Kerry thing of trying to hammer the hammer (i.e. Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan, Connolly, Kilkenny, and the midfield area) I think they will cause problems. They will try to isolate O'Donoghue and Geaney on the inside backs, and if Gooch floats and thereby occupies Cian O'Sullivan, I think they have a chance.
Maybe something like this
Kelly
Young O'Se (maybe) Enright
Crowley Griffin Murphy Begley
Moran Walsh
O'Sullivan Gooch Geaney
O'Donoghue Geaney
Quote from: Jinxy on August 09, 2016, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 09, 2016, 10:54:43 AM
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Kerry were to win this match. Dublin have been over hyped and are on a long unbeaten run in League & championship (something like 27 wins in a row) but this will all suit Kerry and I think they are vulnerable. Kerry's forwards are dangerous, Geaney is one of the best forwards in the country this year and O'Donoghue is back fit and if those 2 can perform Kerry have a great chance. This is a game where Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey, O'Carroll and possibly McCarthy. I wouldn't like to call the result either way yet but I think it will be close and I don't see the gulf between Dublin and Kerry that others do. Kerry need to match Dublin for athleticism and mobility however and that means no starting places for the likes of Donaghy, Sheehan or O'Mahoney.
I think that's a bit of an oxymoron.
Ogie was a great player. Kerry have nobody like him now.
If Kilkenny lines out at wing-back, Kerry will go after him and make him defend first and foremost.
He doesn't have the same pace as McCarthy so I don't think he is a 'line-breaker' from his own half.
I think Dublin might bring in a specialist wing back like Lowndes and put Kilkenny back in the HF line.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 09, 2016, 10:54:43 AM
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Kerry were to win this match. Dublin have been over hyped and are on a long unbeaten run in League & championship (something like 27 wins in a row) but this will all suit Kerry and I think they are vulnerable. Kerry's forwards are dangerous, Geaney is one of the best forwards in the country this year and O'Donoghue is back fit and if those 2 can perform Kerry have a great chance. This is a game where Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey, O'Carroll and possibly McCarthy. I wouldn't like to call the result either way yet but I think it will be close and I don't see the gulf between Dublin and Kerry that others do. Kerry need to match Dublin for athleticism and mobility however and that means no starting places for the likes of Donaghy, Sheehan or O'Mahoney.
Quote from: pointman2 on August 09, 2016, 12:03:47 PM
Dublin are good, but over-hyped.
They are not as good as last year as they are short 3 all-star defenders. Also, McAuley is not playing well and Fenton might have a broken jaw. Their strength is their forward line, and their bench.
Kerry need to match their mobility so team selection is crucial. But I have a sneaking feeling that the Kerry forwards can get the better of the Dublin defence, and Dublin are not so good when the game is not going their way.
That is the reason they are hyped, but not over-hyped, 7th Semi in a row, 3 all Ireland since 09, 4 leagues in a row, 7 Leinsters in a row. A good team. The over hype or don't believe the hype rubbish was spouted as anti-Dub rhetoric in the noughties by country folk and media.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 09, 2016, 12:48:11 PM
If Kilkenny lines out at wing-back, Kerry will go after him and make him defend first and foremost.
He doesn't have the same pace as McCarthy so I don't think he is a 'line-breaker' from his own half.
I think Dublin might bring in a specialist wing back like Lowndes and put Kilkenny back in the HF line.
If you are Kerry how do you make him defend without going man to man all over the park?
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2016, 12:44:26 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 09, 2016, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 09, 2016, 10:54:43 AM
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Kerry were to win this match. Dublin have been over hyped and are on a long unbeaten run in League & championship (something like 27 wins in a row) but this will all suit Kerry and I think they are vulnerable. Kerry's forwards are dangerous, Geaney is one of the best forwards in the country this year and O'Donoghue is back fit and if those 2 can perform Kerry have a great chance. This is a game where Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey, O'Carroll and possibly McCarthy. I wouldn't like to call the result either way yet but I think it will be close and I don't see the gulf between Dublin and Kerry that others do. Kerry need to match Dublin for athleticism and mobility however and that means no starting places for the likes of Donaghy, Sheehan or O'Mahoney.
I think that's a bit of an oxymoron.
Ogie was a great player. Kerry have nobody like him now.
Only the older folk on this thread will get that one Sea!
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 09, 2016, 01:07:22 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 09, 2016, 12:48:11 PM
If Kilkenny lines out at wing-back, Kerry will go after him and make him defend first and foremost.
He doesn't have the same pace as McCarthy so I don't think he is a 'line-breaker' from his own half.
I think Dublin might bring in a specialist wing back like Lowndes and put Kilkenny back in the HF line.
If you are Kerry how do you make him defend without going man to man all over the park?
You consistently attack down his 'channel' to use a rugby term.
The last time I saw a team getting Dublin to react to what
they were doing was the semi-final in 2013.
Walsh made hay on Jack McCaffrey in the first half, who up until then had been having an incredible season.
The Kerry forwards were constantly rotating and making space for support runners.
Now, you can argue that Kerry are 3 years older and Dublin are 3 years wiser, but that is what Kerry will have to do again.
We will get revenge for 2011, 13 and 15. Fitzy will go out on high with Jack returning as manager next year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Kerry will need to match Dublin in the middle third, and that's hard to see happening. They won't play 13 behind the ball, which means positions will be slightly more orthodox, but I can't see how Kerry will negate the athleticism of the middle third for Dublin. David Moran is probably as athletic as Fenton, but McCauley would run someone like Maher or Sheehan or Donaghy into the ground. It might be an option to have a Donnacha Walsh on McAuley. Darren O'Sullivan will run and track all day, so he'd be okay for Small or Kilkenny if Kilkenny plays in the half back line, but I don't think Stephen O'Brien would do as much on the other side. Gooch has to be a luxury player, he can't allow himself to be picked up by McMahon or Johnny Cooper and end up following them up the field. I'd almost tell Gooch to operate as an 'attacking sweeper' and try just float around the 40 to get on ball and feed the inside lads of Geaney and O'Donoghue. Tell the Kerry half forwards and half backs that an overlapping Cooper or McMahon is their responsibility. Paul Murphy might do a man marking job on Connolly, and possibly Marc Griffin might play centre back, and hold the centre, let Murphy as the nominal 'sweeper' pick up Connolly. Enright and Young or Begley will have to go man to man on Brogan and Rock. I don't think Kerry have the legs, but if they do the usual Kerry thing of trying to hammer the hammer (i.e. Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan, Connolly, Kilkenny, and the midfield area) I think they will cause problems. They will try to isolate O'Donoghue and Geaney on the inside backs, and if Gooch floats and thereby occupies Cian O'Sullivan, I think they have a chance.
Maybe something like this
Kelly
Young O'Se (maybe) Enright
Crowley Griffin Murphy Begley
Moran Walsh
O'Sullivan Gooch Geaney
O'Donoghue Geaney
Is there 2 Geaneys?
Yeah. Michael and Paul.
[/quote]
I think that's a bit of an oxymoron.
[/quote]
Is that a thick cow?
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Maybe something like this
KellySheehan
Young O'Se (maybe) Enright
Crowley Griffin Murphy Begley
Moran Walsh
O'Sullivan Gooch Geaney
O'Donoghue Geaney
Yerra :-X
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Kerry will need to match Dublin in the middle third, and that's hard to see happening. They won't play 13 behind the ball, which means positions will be slightly more orthodox, but I can't see how Kerry will negate the athleticism of the middle third for Dublin. David Moran is probably as athletic as Fenton, but McCauley would run someone like Maher or Sheehan or Donaghy into the ground. It might be an option to have a Donnacha Walsh on McAuley. Darren O'Sullivan will run and track all day, so he'd be okay for Small or Kilkenny if Kilkenny plays in the half back line, but I don't think Stephen O'Brien would do as much on the other side. Gooch has to be a luxury player, he can't allow himself to be picked up by McMahon or Johnny Cooper and end up following them up the field. I'd almost tell Gooch to operate as an 'attacking sweeper' and try just float around the 40 to get on ball and feed the inside lads of Geaney and O'Donoghue. Tell the Kerry half forwards and half backs that an overlapping Cooper or McMahon is their responsibility. Paul Murphy might do a man marking job on Connolly, and possibly Marc Griffin might play centre back, and hold the centre, let Murphy as the nominal 'sweeper' pick up Connolly. Enright and Young or Begley will have to go man to man on Brogan and Rock. I don't think Kerry have the legs, but if they do the usual Kerry thing of trying to hammer the hammer (i.e. Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan, Connolly, Kilkenny, and the midfield area) I think they will cause problems. They will try to isolate O'Donoghue and Geaney on the inside backs, and if Gooch floats and thereby occupies Cian O'Sullivan, I think they have a chance.
Maybe something like this
Kelly
Young O'Se (maybe) Enright
Crowley Griffin Murphy Begley
Moran Walsh
O'Sullivan Gooch Geaney
O'Donoghue Geaney
Sorry AZ, but that is all over the shop (much like the actual Kerry team will probably be) and it won't happen in any case. Mikey Geaney isn't related to an intercounty player but Fitz loves him for some reason. He was injured for Clare game, hoping he doesn;t recover.
Walsh midfield? Maher, Moran and Buckley (named 11/12) is the best possible midfield, but Buckley hasn't played in 3 months so prob won't make it. No use playing Walsh there as he can't do anything that Moran won't do.
Jameso and Geaney (the real Geaney) will be inside alright, but not just 2 v 4 Dubs, need 3 in there to even it out, so the big fella will hopefully be there.
Marc ain't going to start at this stage, time has passed.
If this thing about Sheehan in goals is true, I give up aswell. Kicking the ball 65 yards is a lot different to giving accurate mid or short range kickouts.
I've a feeling this game will be similar enough to 2013 semi, just not as good quality-wise. Kerry may get some joy up front but will drop off a bit late on and with the lack of real midfield or half forward legs to come on, Dublin will end up 5 point + winners. I'd love if I was wrong but can't see it tbh.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on August 12, 2016, 11:39:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Kerry will need to match Dublin in the middle third, and that's hard to see happening. They won't play 13 behind the ball, which means positions will be slightly more orthodox, but I can't see how Kerry will negate the athleticism of the middle third for Dublin. David Moran is probably as athletic as Fenton, but McCauley would run someone like Maher or Sheehan or Donaghy into the ground. It might be an option to have a Donnacha Walsh on McAuley. Darren O'Sullivan will run and track all day, so he'd be okay for Small or Kilkenny if Kilkenny plays in the half back line, but I don't think Stephen O'Brien would do as much on the other side. Gooch has to be a luxury player, he can't allow himself to be picked up by McMahon or Johnny Cooper and end up following them up the field. I'd almost tell Gooch to operate as an 'attacking sweeper' and try just float around the 40 to get on ball and feed the inside lads of Geaney and O'Donoghue. Tell the Kerry half forwards and half backs that an overlapping Cooper or McMahon is their responsibility. Paul Murphy might do a man marking job on Connolly, and possibly Marc Griffin might play centre back, and hold the centre, let Murphy as the nominal 'sweeper' pick up Connolly. Enright and Young or Begley will have to go man to man on Brogan and Rock. I don't think Kerry have the legs, but if they do the usual Kerry thing of trying to hammer the hammer (i.e. Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan, Connolly, Kilkenny, and the midfield area) I think they will cause problems. They will try to isolate O'Donoghue and Geaney on the inside backs, and if Gooch floats and thereby occupies Cian O'Sullivan, I think they have a chance.
Maybe something like this
Kelly
Young O'Se (maybe) Enright
Crowley Griffin Murphy Begley
Moran Walsh
O'Sullivan Gooch Geaney
O'Donoghue Geaney
Sorry AZ, but that is all over the shop (much like the actual Kerry team will probably be) and it won't happen in any case. Mikey Geaney isn't related to an intercounty player but Fitz loves him for some reason. He was injured for Clare game, hoping he doesn;t recover.
Walsh midfield? Maher, Moran and Buckley (named 11/12) is the best possible midfield, but Buckley hasn't played in 3 months so prob won't make it. No use playing Walsh there as he can't do anything that Moran won't do.
Jameso and Geaney (the real Geaney) will be inside alright, but not just 2 v 4 Dubs, need 3 in there to even it out, so the big fella will hopefully be there.
Marc ain't going to start at this stage, time has passed.
If this thing about Sheehan in goals is true, I give up aswell. Kicking the ball 65 yards is a lot different to giving accurate mid or short range kickouts.
I've a feeling this game will be similar enough to 2013 semi, just not as good quality-wise. Kerry may get some joy up front but will drop off a bit late on and with the lack of real midfield or half forward legs to come on, Dublin will end up 5 point + winners. I'd love if I was wrong but can't see it tbh.
Dublin are missing 50% of their AI defence
Fenton is struggling with a jaw injury but will play
Kerry have a real chance in this one. They also have put younger legs into the team.
If they are smart they won't start Gooch and will use the experenced lads as cavalry from the bench
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on August 12, 2016, 11:39:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 09, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Kerry will need to match Dublin in the middle third, and that's hard to see happening. They won't play 13 behind the ball, which means positions will be slightly more orthodox, but I can't see how Kerry will negate the athleticism of the middle third for Dublin. David Moran is probably as athletic as Fenton, but McCauley would run someone like Maher or Sheehan or Donaghy into the ground. It might be an option to have a Donnacha Walsh on McAuley. Darren O'Sullivan will run and track all day, so he'd be okay for Small or Kilkenny if Kilkenny plays in the half back line, but I don't think Stephen O'Brien would do as much on the other side. Gooch has to be a luxury player, he can't allow himself to be picked up by McMahon or Johnny Cooper and end up following them up the field. I'd almost tell Gooch to operate as an 'attacking sweeper' and try just float around the 40 to get on ball and feed the inside lads of Geaney and O'Donoghue. Tell the Kerry half forwards and half backs that an overlapping Cooper or McMahon is their responsibility. Paul Murphy might do a man marking job on Connolly, and possibly Marc Griffin might play centre back, and hold the centre, let Murphy as the nominal 'sweeper' pick up Connolly. Enright and Young or Begley will have to go man to man on Brogan and Rock. I don't think Kerry have the legs, but if they do the usual Kerry thing of trying to hammer the hammer (i.e. Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan, Connolly, Kilkenny, and the midfield area) I think they will cause problems. They will try to isolate O'Donoghue and Geaney on the inside backs, and if Gooch floats and thereby occupies Cian O'Sullivan, I think they have a chance.
Maybe something like this
Kelly
Young O'Se (maybe) Enright
Crowley Griffin Murphy Begley
Moran Walsh
O'Sullivan Gooch Geaney
O'Donoghue Geaney
Sorry AZ, but that is all over the shop (much like the actual Kerry team will probably be) and it won't happen in any case. Mikey Geaney isn't related to an intercounty player but Fitz loves him for some reason. He was injured for Clare game, hoping he doesn;t recover.
Walsh midfield? Maher, Moran and Buckley (named 11/12) is the best possible midfield, but Buckley hasn't played in 3 months so prob won't make it. No use playing Walsh there as he can't do anything that Moran won't do.
Jameso and Geaney (the real Geaney) will be inside alright, but not just 2 v 4 Dubs, need 3 in there to even it out, so the big fella will hopefully be there.
Marc ain't going to start at this stage, time has passed.
If this thing about Sheehan in goals is true, I give up aswell. Kicking the ball 65 yards is a lot different to giving accurate mid or short range kickouts.
I've a feeling this game will be similar enough to 2013 semi, just not as good quality-wise. Kerry may get some joy up front but will drop off a bit late on and with the lack of real midfield or half forward legs to come on, Dublin will end up 5 point + winners. I'd love if I was wrong but can't see it tbh.
Maybe it's my imagination but isn't it so that Kerry are playing a much more aggressive game this year than in previous. Even with Clare, they battered them blue before piling on the points.
Yes they are and im guessing its the only avenue they thought they could go after the league final. It will be a very aggressive game i think .its 2016 the usual sledging will be too obvious and outdated i expect kerry to try something kinda new that might see us taking up a lot of bandwith or whatever the right term is for taking up internet space.
Voodoo dolls. They're going with voodoo dolls.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 14, 2016, 09:13:54 PM
Voodoo dolls. They're going with voodoo dolls.
Ahh theyve been doing that for years. Haha
Their last successful Voodoo Doll!
(http://irishpost.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Cormac-Reilly-f.jpg)
Quote from: larryin89 on August 14, 2016, 09:20:47 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 14, 2016, 09:13:54 PM
Voodoo dolls. They're going with voodoo dolls.
Ahh theyve been doing that for years. Haha
You've sobered up, thank Christ!
Yours, a scummy animal.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 14, 2016, 09:44:34 PM
Their last successful Voodoo Doll!
(http://irishpost.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Cormac-Reilly-f.jpg)
I'd love to ask him was it worth it?
Has he been given a game of any significance since?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-fear-is-killing-gaelic-football-kerry-are-the-new-donegal-34963257.html
The obvious - maybe too obvious - Kerry option here is to go with Donaghy inside and to have a genuine direct ball threat.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 15, 2016, 08:24:12 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-fear-is-killing-gaelic-football-kerry-are-the-new-donegal-34963257.html
I should preface the following by saying that I deplore where the game has gone tactically but unfortunately there is a reality in the effectiveness of playing a massed defence and counter attacking football that cannot be practically ignored.
That article illustrates how inept Brolly is as a football analyst. What he lays out makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to anyone who seriously watches the game and even passingly understands the reality of space and numbers in Gaelic football.
The idea that Crossmaglen never play a sweeper or counter attack football also ridiculous in the last 5/6 years. It's actually an insult to a club and team that has reinvented itself many times in its dominant period to suggest they would be so tactically rigid and naïve - particularly against the best teams. The evidence to the contrary is many and varied.
There is so much just flat out wrong and badly informed about that article in terms of Dublin keeping the ball laterally in their half back line, Tipperary's game plan, Waterford's tactical approach, etc.
I guess, as usual, this is another pander to the poorly informed masses who may believe that there is some great and pure football solution to zonal and layered defences. I guess joe is also painting himself as some white knight champion of this mythical land. All hail....
That's only partially true DuffleKing. The massed defence counter attacking tactic is no longer effective at winning games though it can still keep you in a game longer against a better team than a more conventional set up. The problem for football is in a knockout competition teams are looking to, in soccer parlance, nick it rather than win it. Stay within touching distance all game and hope to get into the lead with less than 10 minutes remaining and then hold the ball.
It's a truly awful mindset from the point of view of the spectator though you can understand why managers succumb to it. Anyone who says sport isn't about entertainment and is only about winning hasn't a clue what sport is. And anyone who thinks you have to get 15 men behind the ball to be effective defensively hasn't a clue about football.
Unfortunately it is true that if you take two evenly matched teams - at any level - and one plays traditional football, kicking into their forward line and the other plays with numbers back to plug space and counter then there is only one winner.
No matter how how often it is said and in whatever flowery language, kicking the ball into a packed defence and not protecting the space in your own is suicide at any decent level of football.
Mayo are the latest realisation of this. They would have lost royally to Tyrone if they hadn't played a double sweeper and built their attacks more carefully than in the last five years.
Absolutely. The real crime of defensive is that it gives very little option but to mirror it to a large degree. However, if you do then you have two teams stuck in a boring pointless game where neither team are getting any real advantage from their defensive structure.
Brolly says fear is strangling the game and in some ways he is right in that regard. I suspect many managers are setting up defensively because they are frightened of falling 4 or 5 points down at any stage. If that happens their opponents can then sit back and hit them on the counter as they themselves need to push on more. In a cup competition like the All Ireland, teams are unfortunately rewarded more for containing football rather than expressive football. Certainly in this more tactically aware age.
I'm only involved with underage for the past few years but for the life of me I can't see how leaving 4 forwards up would so weaken a team defensively that they couldn't keep the score down to a reasonable level. I don't recall too many games where 5 or 6 goals in conventional set ups. Is it really impossible to defend well if each player takes responsibility for their own man?
I think what Kerry did v Donegal started the template to beating these counter attacking game plans. Make sure you cover your 6 defensive positions, and try to attack with 6 forwards and 2 midfielders. If the attack breaks down, your 6 defenders are in situ to try and stifle the counter attack. I actually think this year may be the beginning of the end for the overtly defensive systems. I actually have no aversion to the 'sweeper', as long as he is played as a launchpad for counter attacks.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 15, 2016, 01:20:23 PM
I think what Kerry did v Donegal started the template to beating these counter attacking game plans. Make sure you cover your 6 defensive positions, and try to attack with 6 forwards and 2 midfielders. If the attack breaks down, your 6 defenders are in situ to try and stifle the counter attack. I actually think this year may be the beginning of the end for the overtly defensive systems. I actually have no aversion to the 'sweeper', as long as he is played as a launchpad for counter attacks.
Gilroy's Dublin was first to do that to Donegal AZ - Kerry copied the template.
In reality though, it is the defenders who are the most effective counter attackers. Thoughts around the notion of 6 forwards and 2 midfielders are redundant.
Practically speaking, you will be playing with 2/3 extra defenders against most teams if defenders hold their line out positions.
Zulu - leaving 4 forwards up as you term it is misleading. Their direct markers will likely be gone at pace to counter attack and if they hang about in the forward line they'll simply be covered off by middle third players who have trekked back and are happy of the break. The next phase is comparatively fresh defenders counter attacking through your middle third players who have been chasing up and down the pitch for the last five minutes.
Hi Duffle, I don't remember that Dublin game. I remember the Dublin Hara Kiri against Donegal when they all bombed on and the charge of the light brigade coming the other way destroyed them.
When I say leave your backs in position, I mean you cover those positions. Not necessarily that the individuals themselves stay there. If your wing back bombs on, then a midfielder or half forward just has to hold his area until he comes back. You should be able to manufacture a decent attack with 8 players, in fact committing more than that forward can end up crowding the space even more.
DuffleKing is correct AZ, Gilroy's Dublin broke the defensive tactic in that infamous semi final by simply keeping their defensive shape.
DuffleKing, Dublin often kept 4 up against Donegal in the quarter final last week. Forwards always tracked their man if he broke forward so I'm not suggesting they never leave the forward line but that they don't all go back and leave nobody up front. If you have four, or indeed six forwards, who are meant to play as forwards you have to mark them so that surely causes teams who want to play defensively problems. Half forwards always tackled and worked around the middle so I'm not sure why it can't work again. I agree with AZ, the overly defensive systems are no longer working and teams need to think about how to attack more.
I suppose it can be condensed into the two scenarios. A half forward who follows his man back is not being defensive, he is defending.
A half forward who doesn't even look at his man, and sprints like Usain Bolt back to take up a position in his own half back line from the throw in, is being defensive.
Quote from: Zulu on August 15, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
DuffleKing is correct AZ, Gilroy's Dublin broke the defensive tactic in that infamous semi final by simply keeping their defensive shape.
DuffleKing, Dublin often kept 4 up against Donegal in the quarter final last week. Forwards always tracked their man if he broke forward so I'm not suggesting they never leave the forward line but that they don't all go back and leave nobody up front. If you have four, or indeed six forwards, who are meant to play as forwards you have to mark them so that surely causes teams who want to play defensively problems. Half forwards always tackled and worked around the middle so I'm not sure why it can't work again. I agree with AZ, the overly defensive systems are no longer working and teams need to think about how to attack more.
The evidence would suggest otherwise. Tyrone, Galway and Kerry have just won provincial titles basically playing zone defender with at most 2/3 forwards up while the set up in defence.
There is a notion out there that 'defensive systems' are what are making teams sterile. In fact, it is either the lack of a coherent attacking plan afterwards or (as you identified earlier) when the opposition mirror your defensive set up, meaning both attacks are negated.
Interestingly, the Dublin Donegal game in 2011 was mostly decided with the arrival of Kevin McManamon on as a sub - because he has the beating of most man markers with his pace, he was able to drag more defenders towards him, leaving space for the Brogans, O'Gara etc to profit. Our half forward line at the time was Barry Cahill, Bryan Cullen and Paul Flynn so defensively, we were really solid - but not a huge amount of points or pace (bar Flynn) there, so Kevin Mac made a real difference.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 15, 2016, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 15, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
DuffleKing is correct AZ, Gilroy's Dublin broke the defensive tactic in that infamous semi final by simply keeping their defensive shape.
DuffleKing, Dublin often kept 4 up against Donegal in the quarter final last week. Forwards always tracked their man if he broke forward so I'm not suggesting they never leave the forward line but that they don't all go back and leave nobody up front. If you have four, or indeed six forwards, who are meant to play as forwards you have to mark them so that surely causes teams who want to play defensively problems. Half forwards always tackled and worked around the middle so I'm not sure why it can't work again. I agree with AZ, the overly defensive systems are no longer working and teams need to think about how to attack more.
The evidence would suggest otherwise. Tyrone, Galway and Kerry have just won provincial titles basically playing zone defender with at most 2/3 forwards up while the set up in defence.
There is a notion out there that 'defensive systems' are what are making teams sterile. In fact, it is either the lack of a coherent attacking plan afterwards or (as you identified earlier) when the opposition mirror your defensive set up, meaning both attacks are negated.
True but I'd counter that with the exception of Galway both Tyrone and Kerry could/would have won their provincials playing far more attack minded. Indeed, Donegal would have done at least as well as they did this year if they played a more conventional way.
I think defensive systems are making teams sterile. Teams are no longer playing the game in front of them but instead are playing their system and we now know that a good way to beat the defensive system is to mirror it. So any team playing Donegal or Tyrone are going to match them and then we are almost guaranteed an unwatchable borefest. There was no reason for Tyrone to play like they did against Mayo as they would have had just as much of a chance to win playing fairly conventional but instead they just went with the system. I was at the game and Colm Cavanagh was raging at his teammates to come out and pressure the Mayo team much further up but they didn't really do that.
The team with the best players will win most days so hopefully a few managers start trusting the quality of their players a bit more and see where that gets them. Is it really worth playing muck to get beaten at the quarter final stage?
Quote from: Zulu on August 15, 2016, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 15, 2016, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 15, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
DuffleKing is correct AZ, Gilroy's Dublin broke the defensive tactic in that infamous semi final by simply keeping their defensive shape.
DuffleKing, Dublin often kept 4 up against Donegal in the quarter final last week. Forwards always tracked their man if he broke forward so I'm not suggesting they never leave the forward line but that they don't all go back and leave nobody up front. If you have four, or indeed six forwards, who are meant to play as forwards you have to mark them so that surely causes teams who want to play defensively problems. Half forwards always tackled and worked around the middle so I'm not sure why it can't work again. I agree with AZ, the overly defensive systems are no longer working and teams need to think about how to attack more.
The evidence would suggest otherwise. Tyrone, Galway and Kerry have just won provincial titles basically playing zone defender with at most 2/3 forwards up while the set up in defence.
There is a notion out there that 'defensive systems' are what are making teams sterile. In fact, it is either the lack of a coherent attacking plan afterwards or (as you identified earlier) when the opposition mirror your defensive set up, meaning both attacks are negated.
True but I'd counter that with the exception of Galway both Tyrone and Kerry could/would have won their provincials playing far more attack minded. Indeed, Donegal would have done at least as well as they did this year if they played a more conventional way.
I think defensive systems are making teams sterile. Teams are no longer playing the game in front of them but instead are playing their system and we now know that a good way to beat the defensive system is to mirror it. So any team playing Donegal or Tyrone are going to match them and then we are almost guaranteed an unwatchable borefest. There was no reason for Tyrone to play like they did against Mayo as they would have had just as much of a chance to win playing fairly conventional but instead they just went with the system. I was at the game and Colm Cavanagh was raging at his teammates to come out and pressure the Mayo team much further up but they didn't really do that.
The team with the best players will win most days so hopefully a few managers start trusting the quality of their players a bit more and see where that gets them. Is it really worth playing muck to get beaten at the quarter final stage?
I think that's part of the problem. The managers don't trust their rank and file players, so they try to use them as warm bodies to plug gaps and run the ball on the counter, but leave their truly best players that they do trust up, isolated, in the hope of having them snag enough scores to win the game. 0-7 to 0-6 if necessary. It's quite depressing really.
However, I am hopeful that the next evolution will inject a bit of pace into the game, and we are seeing the start of that. More of a balanced approach with 3-4 forwards left up, and swiftly supported by counter attacking players. That's not a horrible game to watch at least.
I am too AZ but I do understand the conservatism of managers. Get beaten in championship playing attacking football, especially if you concede a few goals, you'll get hung out to dry and then have to wait maybe 5 months to get your players again. In that scenario do you stick with principles or do you go with the relatively easy solution of the massed defence? You can understand why mangers go with the fastest solution.
We have to be braver and I think, like you, that the worm might turning at this stage. I certainly hope so because while we always had bad games we are almost guaranteed boring ones in the current environment. The game deserves more.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 15, 2016, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 15, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
DuffleKing is correct AZ, Gilroy's Dublin broke the defensive tactic in that infamous semi final by simply keeping their defensive shape.
DuffleKing, Dublin often kept 4 up against Donegal in the quarter final last week. Forwards always tracked their man if he broke forward so I'm not suggesting they never leave the forward line but that they don't all go back and leave nobody up front. If you have four, or indeed six forwards, who are meant to play as forwards you have to mark them so that surely causes teams who want to play defensively problems. Half forwards always tackled and worked around the middle so I'm not sure why it can't work again. I agree with AZ, the overly defensive systems are no longer working and teams need to think about how to attack more.
The evidence would suggest otherwise. Tyrone, Galway and Kerry have just won provincial titles basically playing zone defender with at most 2/3 forwards up while the set up in defence.
There is a notion out there that 'defensive systems' are what are making teams sterile. In fact, it is either the lack of a coherent attacking plan afterwards or (as you identified earlier) when the opposition mirror your defensive set up, meaning both attacks are negated.
Completely wrong in my view. Of course defensive plans are making the game sterile. Both teams play with 2/3 up front so they have 11 players in their own half. You can have all the best attacking plans in the world but teams now hold the same number of players in each half.
As we saw between two good teams in Tyrone and Mayo - you get a complete stalemate. When teams have the conditioning, the defensive discipline and a complete understanding of how an effective sweeper system works attacking play becomes redundant until the 65th minute
It's only mis-matches between shite teams or where a good team plays a shite team that gives the myth to the likes of Brolly that attacking football is effective against this system. the facts are between two good teams it's ineffective.
Donegal were shite against Dublin defensively. Why? Because they allowed Dublin's decoy runners to drag defenders way out of position even when the ball was never going near them. That tells me a couple of things. the Donegal players had zero belief in their defensive structure.
If they did they'd have closed off the middle and allowed Paddy Andrews and Kevin Mac to stay out on the wing and inevitably come inside. Neither player has a track record of kicking long range points. yet Donegal marked them like they did. Often the Donegal defender was standing near the sideline with a Dublin forward leaving massive holes in the D area. That's a defence that hasn't a clue what it's at.
No passback to the keeper in my view would be a good start because it would give teams an incentive to push up. Allowing a pass-back to the keeper always gives the defender an out ball.
Instead of the idiotic black card system - make every foul inside the attacking half a 21 yard free. That way the attacking team is rewarded. There is no incentive to attack in Gaelic Football because the rules reward defence and penalise attack. The game is 50% attack and 50% defence in my view however at present it's 30-70 in defence's favour
Even when you're agreeing with people (unknown to yourself) you're a prize c**k.
You obviously never paid much attention to English in school. Too busy winning the universal championships for contact chess as player manager no doubt.
Indiana's all right, calls it how he see's it, agree with some but don't agree with the 25 yard free for any foul with the opposition half, the no pass back to the goal keeper is a good one. Come out and play.
And make it that all place kicks have to be kicked forward.
Seeing a buck 30 yards from his own goal looking behind him for someone to tap a free back to is the second most annoying sight on a football field.
The problem with any initiative to cut out cynical play, be it the black card, or automatic 20 metre frees, or anything else punitive for the foul, is that it encourages an equally cynical act, the dive. If I'm soloing the ball 40 metres out, and a lad is tracking me, my best option percentage wise is to 'draw' a foul as the Americans euphemistically call it. Mick O'Dwyer would have had Martin Lynch going down like a hooker when an Aircraft Carrier comes to town.
If the black card is dispensed with, then maybe they should wrap diving up into their list of cynical fouls for the next initiative, or else add Diving to the black card list as is. The problem with that then is you are asking Referees to adjudicate a deliberate dive. Hmmmmmmm.
As the man with the ball can take as many steps as he likes, can assault any player who comes near him, can toss the ball...... maybe we might as well let tacklers grab him and pull him down to hell altogether.
Would save refs a lot of judgement calls ......and we could amalgamate the GAA with the IRFU.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2016, 09:26:29 AM
The problem with any initiative to cut out cynical play, be it the black card, or automatic 20 metre frees, or anything else punitive for the foul, is that it encourages an equally cynical act, the dive. If I'm soloing the ball 40 metres out, and a lad is tracking me, my best option percentage wise is to 'draw' a foul as the Americans euphemistically call it. Mick O'Dwyer would have had Martin Lynch going down like a hooker when an Aircraft Carrier comes to town.
If the black card is dispensed with, then maybe they should wrap diving up into their list of cynical fouls for the next initiative, or else add Diving to the black card list as is. The problem with that then is you are asking Referees to adjudicate a deliberate dive. Hmmmmmmm.
I shouldn't laugh but ;D
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2016, 09:26:29 AM
The problem with any initiative to cut out cynical play, be it the black card, or automatic 20 metre frees, or anything else punitive for the foul, is that it encourages an equally cynical act, the dive. If I'm soloing the ball 40 metres out, and a lad is tracking me, my best option percentage wise is to 'draw' a foul as the Americans euphemistically call it. Mick O'Dwyer would have had Martin Lynch going down like a hooker when an Aircraft Carrier comes to town.
If the black card is dispensed with, then maybe they should wrap diving up into their list of cynical fouls for the next initiative, or else add Diving to the black card list as is. The problem with that then is you are asking Referees to adjudicate a deliberate dive. Hmmmmmmm.
Business as usual there so.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2016, 09:26:29 AM
The problem with any initiative to cut out cynical play, be it the black card, or automatic 20 metre frees, or anything else punitive for the foul, is that it encourages an equally cynical act, the dive. If I'm soloing the ball 40 metres out, and a lad is tracking me, my best option percentage wise is to 'draw' a foul as the Americans euphemistically call it. Mick O'Dwyer would have had Martin Lynch going down like a hooker when an Aircraft Carrier comes to town.
If the black card is dispensed with, then maybe they should wrap diving up into their list of cynical fouls for the next initiative, or else add Diving to the black card list as is. The problem with that then is you are asking Referees to adjudicate a deliberate dive. Hmmmmmmm.
That "draws the foul" saying does my head in. Close to that other nonsense saying of "putting in a shift" during a football game . "strengthening the squad" another one together with "there was contact" when someone falls in a heap in the penalty box when barely touched.
JAysus, is somebody reading in here?
http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/bryan-sheehan-haven-trained-goal/ (http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/bryan-sheehan-haven-trained-goal/)
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 17, 2016, 01:41:01 PM
JAysus, is somebody reading in here?
http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/bryan-sheehan-haven-trained-goal/ (http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/bryan-sheehan-haven-trained-goal/)
Some journalist (can't remember which) tweeted last week that there were rumours it was going to happen. In other words, he repeated a theory from here and created a rumour out of it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2016, 09:26:29 AM
The problem with any initiative to cut out cynical play, be it the black card, or automatic 20 metre frees, or anything else punitive for the foul, is that it encourages an equally cynical act, the dive. If I'm soloing the ball 40 metres out, and a lad is tracking me, my best option percentage wise is to 'draw' a foul as the Americans euphemistically call it. Mick O'Dwyer would have had Martin Lynch going down like a hooker when an Aircraft Carrier comes to town.
If the black card is dispensed with, then maybe they should wrap diving up into their list of cynical fouls for the next initiative, or else add Diving to the black card list as is. The problem with that then is you are asking Referees to adjudicate a deliberate dive. Hmmmmmmm.
Afaic the black card should be carried on with for another season or two and made to work better. The cynical fouling to delay the counter attack has mostly been stopped, so also the 2nd man tackle. Legislation won't likely reform cynicism as there will be a reaction/adjustments to any new rule, creating a whole new set of problems on the pitch.
A deliberate dive is very difficult to adjudicate on, I'm content with the ref just being confident to decide that there was not enough contact for the foul. An outrageous dive can be dealt with by a post game video panel.
The 20m free is a total nonsense idea.
The way to go to be very precise about fouling and cynicism is with video replay assistance for the ref, then every championship game will have to have that facility.
It will be a nice jesture. Sad story.
http://www.joe.ie/sport/dublin-fans-are-planning-a-special-tribute-for-batman-ben/557071
I can't see a Kerry win here. I think it might end up another fairly routine Dublin win with them playing for possession to run down the clock as they've done in previous games. The choice for Kerry will be that of every other team that the Dubs have faced in the championship so far; Attack and lose or defend and lose.
Quote from: highorlow on August 18, 2016, 11:41:46 AM
It will be a nice jesture. Sad story.
http://www.joe.ie/sport/dublin-fans-are-planning-a-special-tribute-for-batman-ben/557071
I do appreciate the sentiments, but this sort of "let's stand and applaud in X minute for X person" is another unwelcome import from the Premiership on top of many others.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on August 18, 2016, 01:55:25 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 18, 2016, 11:41:46 AM
It will be a nice jesture. Sad story.
http://www.joe.ie/sport/dublin-fans-are-planning-a-special-tribute-for-batman-ben/557071
I do appreciate the sentiments, but this sort of "let's stand and applaud in X minute for X person" is another unwelcome import from the Premiership on top of many others.
Bit of a saddo response to say that just because the Premiership started it, it's automatically an "unwelcome import". Premiership probably copied it from some other sport anyway.
Not that the Dublin supporters will give two hoots about you tut-tutting when they choose to do their tribute.
Ah lads, he was a 5 year old kid who died of cancer. I have a friends child on the same ward, while it means little in a sporting context it is a nice gesture.
Quote from: thejuice on August 18, 2016, 01:56:41 PM
Can they not send a nice Mass card instead
Sick children are nothing to be joking about - ever. I hope you don't ever have to go through something with your own children just to learn that lesson.
In fairness I think he was responding to Owenmoresider's post ET. At least I hope he was.
Apologies if that is the case juice - just have zero sense of humour on this subject.
I didn't read the story in the link, it was just a response to the post above which I thought was going over the top a bit.
edit - just deleted the post, just in case there is any more misunderstanding.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on August 18, 2016, 01:55:25 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 18, 2016, 11:41:46 AM
It will be a nice jesture. Sad story.
http://www.joe.ie/sport/dublin-fans-are-planning-a-special-tribute-for-batman-ben/557071
I do appreciate the sentiments, but this sort of "let's stand and applaud in X minute for X person" is another unwelcome import from the Premiership on top of many others.
It's far from an 'unwelcome import' to the families of those that have passed. As a friend of the Harris family I can tell you for a fact it meant a huge amount to them when their 2 lads were remembered.
O'Gara cleared
::)
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 19, 2016, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 19, 2016, 04:36:13 PM
O'Gara cleared
::)
Proper order.
+1, if lads are getting sent off and suspended for that then we may as well forget about it.
Quote from: Zulu on August 19, 2016, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 19, 2016, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 19, 2016, 04:36:13 PM
O'Gara cleared
::)
Proper order.
+1, if lads are getting sent off and suspended for that then we may as well forget about it.
"But what about the integrity of the rules?"
The main rule is that if you really really want, what you really really want, which is to get off, then you do. 😀
Is McCarthy fit for this game? If not I don't think Kerry will have a better chance of beating Dublin give that the Dubs are 3 All Stars down from last season. For me Dublin are still slight favourites but they are not as far ahead of Kerry as some would have you believe. Mentally the Dubs have a bit of a hoodoo over Kerry and if Kerry can overcome this barrier they are capable of causing a mild upset. If the Dubs beat them again in a big match its hard to see where this Kerry team go from here. Should be a fascinating contest.
Dublin work very well as a cohesive defensive unit.
Kerry need to use their experience to target and isolate Byrne in the FB line, and Small and Kilkenny in the HB line (if McCarthy isn't fit).
Put them on the back foot and pull Cian O'Sullivan into a more defensive fire-fighting role, particularly if the FB line is threatened.
Byrne and small are relative newcomers and Kilkenny is untested in a defensive capacity.
They need to get the match-ups right from the start for this to work though.
The match-ups for the first half don't necessarily have to be the same as those for the 2nd half either.
If the Kerry HF line get on top of the Dublin HB line, then that will protect the Kerry midfield to a certain extent.
Dolan put Donaghy at midfield for Kerry in his starting rteam last night. I'd be very surprised if Donaghy started this game at midfield whatever about full forward. Personally I don't think he warrants a start since Geaney and O'Donoghue are 2 potential match winners and I'd go with them inside as a pairing. Surely they have to go with Moran and either Buckley or Maher at midfield for this game. Byrne and Small are definitely potential weak links in the Dublin defence to target.
Donaghy at midfield would be an utterly pointless liability.
Word is that McCarthy is fit. Be very interesting to see who gets dropped if he does start. Kev Mac would be the usual choice, but he's been going very well. Could be Macauley, but that could leave Kerry with an advantage in the air. Hard to see it being any of Flynn, Bernard or Andrews. And Rock, Connolly and Fenton are absolute certs to start.
Mcmenamin always seems the fall guy come the semi final and final. Has he ever started an all Ireland final over the years? He's a key player but he must be sick to the back teeth og being an impact sub this time of year (if he is dropped at all)
Quote from: Hound on August 22, 2016, 03:11:13 PM
Word is that McCarthy is fit. Be very interesting to see who gets dropped if he does start. Kev Mac would be the usual choice, but he's been going very well. Could be Macauley, but that could leave Kerry with an advantage in the air. Hard to see it being any of Flynn, Bernard or Andrews. And Rock, Connolly and Fenton are absolute certs to start.
If McCarthy is deemed match fit I can imagine it would be a straight swap with John Small. After what was believed to be MCL injury it will be interesting to see if McCarthy is match fit to play in such a high competitive contest.
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
That all sounds reasonable enough bar Marc at 6 - no way has he the legs for it.
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
He is surely winding you up. How do you put a former player of the year onto the oppositions sweeper to occupy him.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 22, 2016, 09:46:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
He is surely winding you up. How do you put a former player of the year onto the oppositions sweeper to occupy him.
Not so sure. Kerry will work on Dublin strengths and O Sullivan is one of their big ones. If they can pull him out of the middle they will. They played O Donoghue in a deep role v Donegal in 2014 final, even if it was for a different reason.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 22, 2016, 09:46:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
He is surely winding you up. How do you put a former player of the year onto the oppositions sweeper to occupy him.
I'd imagine play him around the 40 to distract O'Sullivan?
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 22, 2016, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 22, 2016, 09:46:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
He is surely winding you up. How do you put a former player of the year onto the oppositions sweeper to occupy him.
I'd imagine play him around the 40 to distract O'Sullivan?
Now I know Fitzmaurice is a very pragmatic coach but to put your best forward onto the opposition sweeper simply to distract him would be mental. Mightn't sit too well in Kerry either if they reduce themselves to this sort of mindset.
I'd imagine the thinking behind that would be to put a guy on the sweeper who the sweeper would have to mark and therefore that would have to be a scorer. The problem with that is it's the defending team who decide the match ups.
Quote from: Zulu on August 22, 2016, 10:39:01 PM
I'd imagine the thinking behind that would be to put a guy on the sweeper who the sweeper would have to mark and therefore that would have to be a scorer. The problem with that is it's the defending team who decide the match ups.
The thing is if O Donoghue stays just beyond the D and does his stuff from there what does Dublin do?
Quote from: moysider on August 22, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
My Kerry mole tells me that Donaghy and Geaney will play inside.
O Donoghue will be put on O Sullivan to distract him from his sweeping role.
Moran and Maher midfield with Buckley named 13 put playing out around hf line with Murphy and Walsh.
He expects Marc to play 6.
That would mean not only Gooch kept in reserve, but both Darran O'Sullivan and Stephen O'Brien dropped.
I'd be surprised (although would be very interesting as the "twin tower" approach has been much talked about as a possible way of getting at Dublin, but hasn't really been tried by anyone, and it would leave a strong fast bench for a 2nd half change of plan).
Although if it did happen as outlined I don't think it would necessarily clog up Cian O'Sullivan. McMahon, Byrne and Cooper would pick up Donaghy, Geaney and JOD - allowing COS to sweep in front (one or both of Murphy and Buckley would drop back and not be followed).
I wonder would Sheehan not be more likely to be picked than Buckley, given he'd be more reliable with the placed ball?
Got the ticket last night - very excited as I won't be able to make a possible final - and sure playing Kerry at any stage is the game of the season.
I said after last year's AIF that you could have replayed the game 10 times and you would have still gotten the same results. The two games in the league this year were comprehensive for Dublin, but I'm still nervous. Somebody, sometime, has got to figure out how to get at a Dublin defence shorn of three All Stars (not at all sure that McCarthy will start).
That said, Kerry's problems are much of their own making. Fitzmaurice should have dropped a load of players off the squad after their win in 2014 - O Se, Donaghy, O'Mahony, Sheehan etc should have rode off into the sunset, leaving space to bring through new fellas. As it is, Fitzmaurice is far too loyal to lads he has soldiered with. I honestly think if they start Marc, they will get hockeyed. He was a fabulous defender, but when the legs go, they don't come back.
Kerry have the firepower but perhaps not the platform to build from. Dublin obviously have the forwards and if midfield and a patched up HB get motoring, then it is us by five. IF Kerry can figure out a way to build on limited possession and get Geaney in the game quicker then it could be closer.
Cannot wait.
Good news for Kerry.
Syfín has announced on stolensheep that Dublin will hammer "Mayo" in the Final. ;D
Probably the best thing for Kerry will be good beating . This will lead to a proper clear out . Last year they dodged a bullet .
Quote from: ashman on August 24, 2016, 07:21:44 PM
Probably the best thing for Kerry will be good beating . This will lead to a proper clear out . Last year they dodged a bullet .
Attended the All-Ireland last year and league final this year. Dublin could and should have been out of sight by halftime in both.
Q what has changed. From league final O Donohue in for Kerry, Macarthy out for Dublin. any other reason Kerry will make it closer.
Donahy full forward ? Buckley acting as a spoiler for an hour.
Struggling to figure out how Kerry will win other than Dublin going down to fourteen early.
Maybe over simplistic
You could argue that the league will have little bearing on this weekend. Its hard to know how much Kerry were really going for it at that stage. Last year Kerry were poor and still only lost by 3. And this year Dublin are the defending champions which makes it that bit tougher. Would not be surprised if Kerry turn them over. But I think if they'll have to push up and go for it rather than relying on an overly defensive system.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 24, 2016, 07:16:09 PM
Good news for Kerry.
Syfín has announced on stolensheep that Dublin will hammer "Mayo" in the Final. ;D
Mayo's name is on the cup so, but he will be delighted with that, who wouldn't want to see their county win the all ireland
Quote from: Redhand Santa on August 25, 2016, 08:27:44 AM
You could argue that the league will have little bearing on this weekend. Its hard to know how much Kerry were really going for it at that stage. Last year Kerry were poor and still only lost by 3. And this year Dublin are the defending champions which makes it that bit tougher. Would not be surprised if Kerry turn them over. But I think if they'll have to push up and go for it rather than relying on an overly defensive system.
Agreed. I think Kerry will and will pip Dublin by a point or 2. Sheehan from dead balls, JOD, PG, Gooch, Donaghy on the edge of the square. If it all clicks, and Kerry do go for it, this could be a mighty shootout.
PS : Roscommon fans are mad hooers
Quote from: joemamas on August 25, 2016, 04:38:55 AM
Quote from: ashman on August 24, 2016, 07:21:44 PM
Probably the best thing for Kerry will be good beating . This will lead to a proper clear out . Last year they dodged a bullet .
Macarthy out for Dublin.
McCarthy available for selection
Like he was available for the last Donegal game too.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418)
I too think Kerry had no interest in winning that league final and they knew it was all about meeting Dublin in the AI semi final. Kerry have always adapted to how other teams have beaten them over the years and have changed their style of football hugely from the 80s and 90s.
A lot of Dublin's success comes from having a lot of possession and attacking at pace with so many talented forwards (and MF and defenders) all able to kick scores. They have an excellent free taker in Rock now also, so discipline in the tackle is crucial and then there is their strongest weapon which is their sub bench which is unleashed in the final 15-20 mins.
I have a feeling Kerry will try something different this time and if they come out all guns blazing and go into a good lead then they will put Dublin into a place they are not used to being in. The last time we saw something like that was when Donegal scored those goals against them in 2014 and suddenly Dublin started missing good scoring chances and their confidence was gone.
I think if Kerry try to "stay with them" for 50 mins then they will fall into the trap many others have and then the Dublin cavalry will come in to save the day.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 25, 2016, 10:19:06 AM
Like he was available for the last Donegal game too.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418)
I too think Kerry had no interest in winning that league final and they knew it was all about meeting Dublin in the AI semi final. Kerry have always adapted to how other teams have beaten them over the years and have changed their style of football hugely from the 80s and 90s.
A lot of Dublin's success comes from having a lot of possession and attacking at pace with so many talented forwards (and MF and defenders) all able to kick scores. They have an excellent free taker in Rock now also, so discipline in the tackle is crucial and then there is their strongest weapon which is their sub bench which is unleashed in the final 15-20 mins.
I have a feeling Kerry will try something different this time and if they come out all guns blazing and go into a good lead then they will put Dublin into a place they are not used to being in. The last time we saw something like that was when Donegal scored those goals against them in 2014 and suddenly Dublin started missing good scoring chances and their confidence was gone.
I think if Kerry try to "stay with them" for 50 mins then they will fall into the trap many others have and then the Dublin cavalry will come in to save the day.
Kerry definitely wanted to beat Dublin in the league final. All the talk before hand was how Kerry were determined to get revenge for the All Ireland final defeat and would be more determined to win. Now all of a sudden Kerry didn't really care about the league final. For Kerry to win they need speed in the midfield half forward/back lines as Dublin have wiped them out there in the last few games. O'Mahony and O'Se don't have the legs to stay with the dublin forwards anymore and shouldn't start.
From a Kerry point of view they were poor in defence and gave up several goal chances to Tipp and Clare in their last 2 games. Won't get away with that against Dublin.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 25, 2016, 10:19:06 AM
Like he was available for the last Donegal game too.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418)
I too think Kerry had no interest in winning that league final and they knew it was all about meeting Dublin in the AI semi final. Kerry have always adapted to how other teams have beaten them over the years and have changed their style of football hugely from the 80s and 90s.
A lot of Dublin's success comes from having a lot of possession and attacking at pace with so many talented forwards (and MF and defenders) all able to kick scores. They have an excellent free taker in Rock now also, so discipline in the tackle is crucial and then there is their strongest weapon which is their sub bench which is unleashed in the final 15-20 mins.
I have a feeling Kerry will try something different this time and if they come out all guns blazing and go into a good lead then they will put Dublin into a place they are not used to being in. The last time we saw something like that was when Donegal scored those goals against them in 2014 and suddenly Dublin started missing good scoring chances and their confidence was gone.
I think if Kerry try to "stay with them" for 50 mins then they will fall into the trap many others have and then the Dublin cavalry will come in to save the day.
Watching that match (the League final) and the build up, it was obvious that Kerry were more desperate to win it than the Dubs actually were so I wouldn't agree with that assertion at all. Kerry threw the kitchen sink at Dublin that day and for 60 minutes there wasn't that much in it although it felt as though the Dubs always had them at arms length. Players like O'Mahoney and O'Se looked as though years had caught up with them as they were unable to cope with the pace and power of the Dubs. The Dubs just eventually wore them down as they do with most sides.
I excpect somethig similar on Sunday with Kerry staying with Dublin for most of the game but the Dubs will eventually grind them down and overrun Kerry. This is the last throw of the dice for a lot of this Kerry side including management and either way I'd expect them to at least go down fighting.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 25, 2016, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 25, 2016, 10:19:06 AM
Like he was available for the last Donegal game too.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418)
I too think Kerry had no interest in winning that league final and they knew it was all about meeting Dublin in the AI semi final. Kerry have always adapted to how other teams have beaten them over the years and have changed their style of football hugely from the 80s and 90s.
A lot of Dublin's success comes from having a lot of possession and attacking at pace with so many talented forwards (and MF and defenders) all able to kick scores. They have an excellent free taker in Rock now also, so discipline in the tackle is crucial and then there is their strongest weapon which is their sub bench which is unleashed in the final 15-20 mins.
I have a feeling Kerry will try something different this time and if they come out all guns blazing and go into a good lead then they will put Dublin into a place they are not used to being in. The last time we saw something like that was when Donegal scored those goals against them in 2014 and suddenly Dublin started missing good scoring chances and their confidence was gone.
I think if Kerry try to "stay with them" for 50 mins then they will fall into the trap many others have and then the Dublin cavalry will come in to save the day.
Watching that match (the League final) and the build up, it was obvious that Kerry were more desperate to win it than the Dubs actually were so I wouldn't agree with that assertion at all. Kerry threw the kitchen sink at Dublin that day and for 60 minutes there wasn't that much in it although it felt as though the Dubs always had them at arms length. Players like O'Mahoney and O'Se looked as though years had caught up with them as they were unable to cope with the pace and power of the Dubs. The Dubs just eventually wore them down as they do with most sides.
I excpect somethig similar on Sunday with Kerry staying with Dublin for most of the game but the Dubs will eventually grind them down and overrun Kerry. This is the last throw of the dice for a lot of this Kerry side including management and either way I'd expect them to at least go down fighting.
Not a chance in hell Kerry didn't want to win that game, beating Dublin in a big game was a marker laid down for the Semi final. It may have no bearing come Sunday but getting hammered by Dublin in the league final won't be a positive no matter what way you try and frame it.
Of course they wanted to win it, but if Kerry do have a 'cunning plan' to counteract Dublin, and to put them under pressure, they sure as hell were not going to unveil it in a league final.
I don't know if they have said plan, but I don't expect them to play the same way.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 25, 2016, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 25, 2016, 10:19:06 AM
Like he was available for the last Donegal game too.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mixing-the-short-with-the-long-can-solve-kerry-s-kickout-conundrum-1.2767418)
I too think Kerry had no interest in winning that league final and they knew it was all about meeting Dublin in the AI semi final. Kerry have always adapted to how other teams have beaten them over the years and have changed their style of football hugely from the 80s and 90s.
A lot of Dublin's success comes from having a lot of possession and attacking at pace with so many talented forwards (and MF and defenders) all able to kick scores. They have an excellent free taker in Rock now also, so discipline in the tackle is crucial and then there is their strongest weapon which is their sub bench which is unleashed in the final 15-20 mins.
I have a feeling Kerry will try something different this time and if they come out all guns blazing and go into a good lead then they will put Dublin into a place they are not used to being in. The last time we saw something like that was when Donegal scored those goals against them in 2014 and suddenly Dublin started missing good scoring chances and their confidence was gone.
I think if Kerry try to "stay with them" for 50 mins then they will fall into the trap many others have and then the Dublin cavalry will come in to save the day.
Watching that match (the League final) and the build up, it was obvious that Kerry were more desperate to win it than the Dubs actually were so I wouldn't agree with that assertion at all. Kerry threw the kitchen sink at Dublin that day and for 60 minutes there wasn't that much in it although it felt as though the Dubs always had them at arms length. Players like O'Mahoney and O'Se looked as though years had caught up with them as they were unable to cope with the pace and power of the Dubs. The Dubs just eventually wore them down as they do with most sides.
I excpect somethig similar on Sunday with Kerry staying with Dublin for most of the game but the Dubs will eventually grind them down and overrun Kerry. This is the last throw of the dice for a lot of this Kerry side including management and either way I'd expect them to at least go down fighting.
Of course Kerry wanted to win, but the Kerry team ( fitness and sharpness wise, they annually cruise through the league and peak Aug/Sep) will be a different animal altogether on Sunday. Why so many are using a league game in April as an indicator to how a championship match in Aug will play out is a mystery to me, cute hoorism most likely.
Onto the game itself, if PG, Gooch, Donaghy and JOD all start, that's a fair nightmare match up wise for Gavin to get right. Of course Kerry have the same headaches down the far side of the pitch. It'll be a fair ding-dong of a battle that's for sure.
Kerry by 3
Exactly what I was about to say AZ.
All I meant was Kerry were not going to put too much effort or show their hunger in a league final when they knew they would most likely meet again at this stage.
They know from being champions themselves that you always underestimate the hunger required to win back to back titles.
Both teams have been coasting to this stage although Dublin had to put up a little sweat against Donegal but Kerry will be loving the so low key build up to this game and no doubt will be looking at how so many pundits were talking up Tyrone as having the style to beat the Dubs but not the forwards. Well maybe they can play like Tyrone but they DO have the forwards to make it count.
The one thing I think Kerry won't do and that is try the same as they did the last time and lose again. They have to try something different. Gooch in nets perhaps? :P
Dublin by 5 , Kerry then to "rebuild" !!
Not sure Kerry have anything in their locker that we haven't seen before. They played a heavy blanket defence against Tipp in the first half of the Munster final and at times against Clare so I would fully expect them to do that against Dublin. Cian O'Sullivan needs to be game managed so they'll have a plan for him even if it's to just try avoid him with ball but other than that I just expect them to play bodies behind the ball to keep Dublin at bay and hope to get the right side of a low scoring game.
If James McCarthy is out along with McCaffrey and O'Carroll then the gap between the two teams will certainly have narrowed since last year but I'd still prefer to have the Dublin squad. Dublin by 2-4 points but possibly a lot more comfortable than that in reality.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 25, 2016, 12:26:12 PM
Of course they wanted to win it, but if Kerry do have a 'cunning plan' to counteract Dublin, and to put them under pressure, they sure as hell were not going to unveil it in a league final.
I don't know if they have said plan, but I don't expect them to play the same way.
Agreed.
Some fascinating theories as to what Kerry might do
- Will Donaghy and Geaney play as twin towers with JOD off them?
- Will Gooch start or be held back?
- Will Paul Murphy revert to the backs?
- Will Brendan O'Sullivan be a surprise inclusion in midfied to add athlecism?
- Will a place be found for Sheehan for his freetaking? Or might Buckley get that job for the first time in a good while?
- Will O'Mahoney and/or O'Se be played for their experience, and will they stick to younger/faster guys in the backs?
- Will they keep Cian O'Sullivan occupied, and thus risk going man-to-man with their defence?
Quote from: Zulu on August 25, 2016, 03:29:41 PM
Not sure Kerry have anything in their locker that we haven't seen before. They played a heavy blanket defence against Tipp in the first half of the Munster final and at times against Clare so I would fully expect them to do that against Dublin. Cian O'Sullivan needs to be game managed so they'll have a plan for him even if it's to just try avoid him with ball but other than that I just expect them to play bodies behind the ball to keep Dublin at bay and hope to get the right side of a low scoring game.
If James McCarthy is out along with McCaffrey and O'Carroll then the gap between the two teams will certainly have narrowed since last year but I'd still prefer to have the Dublin squad. Dublin by 2-4 points but possibly a lot more comfortable than that in reality.
They have been doing that regularly since Fitzmaurice took over with wing forwards withdrawing and used it to good effect in the AI final 2014 were they outgrinded Donegal in a terrible spectacle (even withdrawing O'Donoghue out around midfield who was the POTY that season). Fitzmaurice is the ultimate pragmatist and doesn't care how he wins he just wants to win. I just don't see what dramatic 'new' tactical plan they are going to come up with against the Dubs. They may shuffle their personnel and tweak their tactics a bit but I don't expect anything dramatically different than what we have already seen.
They have to try and inject pace/athleticism into the midfield area. Donaghy in there with Moran will not cut it. I think they also have to play a centre forward who will stay centre forward, and pull the strings. Never mind chasing Philly McMahon down the field.
In short, I think they will need to be brave and try to take Dublin on. Playing the blanket and surrendering possession won't cut it against Dublin, you'll need to at least have 3-4 forwards up there, and move the ball up to them quickly.
I'm not saying they won't have a defensive plan, I think they will, but it will be a plan that's focussed on not allowing Dublin stroll around with the ball in their own half back line, and trying to maximise turnovers.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 25, 2016, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 25, 2016, 03:29:41 PM
Not sure Kerry have anything in their locker that we haven't seen before. They played a heavy blanket defence against Tipp in the first half of the Munster final and at times against Clare so I would fully expect them to do that against Dublin. Cian O'Sullivan needs to be game managed so they'll have a plan for him even if it's to just try avoid him with ball but other than that I just expect them to play bodies behind the ball to keep Dublin at bay and hope to get the right side of a low scoring game.
If James McCarthy is out along with McCaffrey and O'Carroll then the gap between the two teams will certainly have narrowed since last year but I'd still prefer to have the Dublin squad. Dublin by 2-4 points but possibly a lot more comfortable than that in reality.
They have been doing that regularly since Fitzmaurice took over with wing forwards withdrawing and used it to good effect in the AI final 2014 were they outgrinded Donegal in a terrible spectacle (even withdrawing O'Donoghue out around midfield who was the POTY that season). Fitzmaurice is the ultimate pragmatist and doesn't care how he wins he just wants to win. I just don't see what dramatic 'new' tactical plan they are going to come up with against the Dubs. They may shuffle their personnel and tweak their tactics a bit but I don't expect anything dramatically different than what we have already seen.
That's not entirely true. They didn't play a full blanket or even close to that initially, think of their classic semi final against the Dubs. He copied Gilroy's template to beat Donegal rather than that being a mainstay tactic for them. They are certainly more defensive this year than previously though you're right they haven't just gone from man to man to blanket this year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 25, 2016, 03:46:34 PM
They have to try and inject pace/athleticism into the midfield area. Donaghy in there with Moran will not cut it. I think they also have to play a centre forward who will stay centre forward, and pull the strings. Never mind chasing Philly McMahon down the field.
In short, I think they will need to be brave and try to take Dublin on. Playing the blanket and surrendering possession won't cut it against Dublin, you'll need to at least have 3-4 forwards up there, and move the ball up to them quickly.
I'm not saying they won't have a defensive plan, I think they will, but it will be a plan that's focussed on not allowing Dublin stroll around with the ball in their own half back line, and trying to maximise turnovers.
Not sure I'd agree AZ. I think they might get everyone back and allow Dublin play in front of them (I certainly hope I'm wrong or I might have to find a new sport to watch!) and hope to break and get a few good points and frees to keep in the game. Yellowcard mentioned the Donegal Kerry final and I think this Sunday will be far closer to that than Dublin Kerry in the semi final a few years ago. Bottom line, a fading Donegal were still, hypothetically, in the game with 10 minutes left in the quarter final so will Kerry, with better forwards, not take that?
I think if they do that, they are hoping to keep the game close, rather than win it. That would be very disappointing, and I think the only thing it will do is make them lose by 3-4 points. I'd like to think Kerry are designing a way to win the game. They always say they try to hammer the hammer. There are a few hammers on the Dublin team, but midfield mobility, Cian O'Sullivan, Ciaran Kilkenny as a 'quarterback' and Diarmuid Connolly are some of them. I'd be shocked if they don't try to put pressure on those players, and the best way to pressure O'Sullivan, and maybe Kilkenny, is to attack them at least a decent bit.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 25, 2016, 03:46:34 PM
They have to try and inject pace/athleticism into the midfield area. Donaghy in there with Moran will not cut it. I think they also have to play a centre forward who will stay centre forward, and pull the strings. Never mind chasing Philly McMahon down the field.
In short, I think they will need to be brave and try to take Dublin on. Playing the blanket and surrendering possession won't cut it against Dublin, you'll need to at least have 3-4 forwards up there, and move the ball up to them quickly.
I'm not saying they won't have a defensive plan, I think they will, but it will be a plan that's focussed on not allowing Dublin stroll around with the ball in their own half back line, and trying to maximise turnovers.
If it was me picking the team, I think I'd rotate Darren O'Sullivan, Cooper and O'Donoghue between centre forward, wing forward and the FF line.
I think they each present a different challenge.
O'Sullivan has speed & power and Cooper has the skill and football brain to pick out killer passes.
O'Donoghue is a good mixture of both but I don't think it would be wise to play a natural predator like him that far from goals for the full game.
So O'Sullivan comes in to the centre off his wing, Geaney moves out to replace him and Cooper and O'Donoghue are left inside.
O'Donoghue moves out and Cooper & Geaney are left inside.
Cooper moves out and O'Donoghue & Geaney are left inside.
No point having your most likely goal-scorers running their legs to stumps at centre-forward trying to track back for a full game.
Spread the load.
I certainly think Kerry will try to man mark some of the players you mentioned AZ but I suspect it will be within a heavy blanket defence. Again I hope I'm wrong but I can't see Kerry being happy to leave their defence fairly open as if they fall behind and have to chase too much they might get caught on the break and end up getting well beaten.
Not sure any team has the confidence to go toe to toe with Dublin anymore.
I understand all the valid points in here about systems and systems to counter act etc and it will come into play for the most part but it only takes one set play for Donaghy to simply catch a high ball against a relative weakness in dublin smallish full back line and lay it off to an on running JOD to burst the net. I expect some once off set plays from Kerry and then to fall back into a defensive set up .
Quote from: JoG2 on August 25, 2016, 09:17:12 AM
PS : Roscommon fans are mad hooers
It helps us cope with the great Springs and terrible Summers ;D
As for Sunday all form and recent meetings between the teams suggest a dour struggle with 3 red cards and Dublin scoring a late 1-2 to win be 6 points.
However at the back of my mind there's a ladeen saying hurt pride, 2011/13/15/16 defeats etc will have Kerry bursting every blood vessel to put Dublin back in their boxes, that they'll pull the rug from under Dublin and win by 2 points.
I can't make up my mind and will make a late decision Sunday morning.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on August 25, 2016, 08:27:44 AM
You could argue that the league will have little bearing on this weekend. Its hard to know how much Kerry were really going for it at that stage. Last year Kerry were poor and still only lost by 3. And this year Dublin are the defending champions which makes it that bit tougher. Would not be surprised if Kerry turn them over. But I think if they'll have to push up and go for it rather than relying on an overly defensive system.
The scoreline was extremely flattering, I think Dublin winning by 10 points would have been a fairer reflection on the game and they didn't even have to get of cruise control in that game. Dublin are feeding on Kerry's minds and I don't really see this being a contest, unless Donaghy can roll back the years at full forward I think it will be very comfortable for Dublin.
The closer it gets the less I can see any logical reason why Kerry would beat Dublin. Dublin have won their last 26 competitive games leagus and championship. Since Gavin took over they have won 4 Leagues and 2 AI titles in 3 and a half seasons. If they win this years AI title that will be 7 out of 8 major titles for the Dubs since Gavin took over. The only blip is the Donegal s-f defeat in 2014. That would arguably put them into the category of being the best team in a generation and only Kerry's golden side could lay a definitive claim to being better. All logic leads to a Dublin win but then Donegal sprung a similar ambush 2 years ago and Kerry have more ammunition up front than that Donegal side had. Sunday will answer a lot of questions.
Apparently the Kerry masterplan is for Donaghy to keep his big gob zipped for the whole match, where he'll focus solely on the game. The Dublin lads will be so flummoxed and stupefied by this totally uncustomary act of disarming humility that the Kerry boys will simply dance through them, scoring seven goals to nil in the process against their totally disoriented hosts. ;)
Maybe Mayowestros will do the same with the O'Sheas and O'Connors in the Final ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on August 26, 2016, 12:24:00 AM
Maybe Mayowestros will do the same with the O'Sheas and O'Connors in the Final ;)
Ah here, let's keep it real! ;)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 25, 2016, 11:59:02 PM
Apparently the Kerry masterplan is for Donaghy to keep his big gob zipped for the whole match, where he'll focus solely on the game. The Dublin lads will be so flummoxed and stupefied by this totally uncustomary act of disarming humility that the Kerry boys will simply dance through them, scoring seven goals to nil in the process against their totally disoriented hosts. ;)
Tyrone man advises a player from another county to 'keep his big gob zipped'.. This is straight out of Waterford Whispers!
Donaghy is genetically 90% a Tyrone man anyway.
Quote from: JoG2 on August 26, 2016, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 25, 2016, 11:59:02 PM
Apparently the Kerry masterplan is for Donaghy to keep his big gob zipped for the whole match, where he'll focus solely on the game. The Dublin lads will be so flummoxed and stupefied by this totally uncustomary act of disarming humility that the Kerry boys will simply dance through them, scoring seven goals to nil in the process against their totally disoriented hosts. ;)
Tyrone man advises a player from another county to 'keep his big gob zipped'.. This is straight out of Waterford Whispers!
I was wondering when the Derry brigade where going to arrive. Just wouldn't be the same without yous.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2016, 10:41:23 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 26, 2016, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 25, 2016, 11:59:02 PM
Apparently the Kerry masterplan is for Donaghy to keep his big gob zipped for the whole match, where he'll focus solely on the game. The Dublin lads will be so flummoxed and stupefied by this totally uncustomary act of disarming humility that the Kerry boys will simply dance through them, scoring seven goals to nil in the process against their totally disoriented hosts. ;)
Tyrone man advises a player from another county to 'keep his big gob zipped'.. This is straight out of Waterford Whispers!
I was wondering when the Derry brigade where going to arrive. Just wouldn't be the same without yous.
:-*
Quote from: Jinxy on August 26, 2016, 10:07:29 AM
Donaghy is genetically 90% a Tyrone man anyway.
We've long since disowned every single gene, Kerry gits! ;)
Put a few bob on Dublin to win by 10-12 points at 8/1. PP had it at 9/1 earlier but have since removed that option.
Excellent and insightful video interview on independent.ie with Brian Mullins and Jacko
The whole country expects Kerry to come up with something special on Sunday - something that we haven't seen before from this team. There's a feeling out there that they have been working on a blitzkrieg strategy which they will unveil on Sunday – a display of shock and awe which will leave the Dubs reeling. That may well be what will happen - or it may be that there is no grand plan and the Dubs will still be champions on Sunday night. We'll all know the answer than.
I'm wary.
Despite winning every league and championship game, I believe we haven't played at the same level we did last year.
We're down our full back and last year's player of the year. We might also be without James McCarthy, or best case, he's not match fit. Flynn and Macauley haven't got anywhere near what they're capable of.
Kerry are a bit better than last year.
Last year they were defending All Ireland champions, this year we are. That tends to change the intensity a team brings, even if only slightly.
On the positive, I think Brogan, Connolly and Andrews are motoring well and are going to be very hard for Kerry to handle. I really hope Gavin plays Andrews.
Really looking forward to it. But wary.
Nah, I don't think this Kerry team have anything up their sleeves, hence why I've gone with that bet. It could end up like 2009 in reverse.
There's been a lot of controversial black cards this year and it would be interesting if Philly McMahon was to get sent off. What I mean is he's become a very important defender to Dublin now in that FB line and you'd wonder if Kerry were to target him for some special attention early on will he "bite"?
Kerry know they have to make it a nasty ugly game as if they play it nice and open then they're in trouble.
You could see Kerry showing their true cynical side in order to get into Dublins' faces. When was the last final that you would say was downright nasty and dirty? Of course if Kerry get a man sent off and Dublin don't then Dublin will really punish you.
No doubt Connolly will be well warned and be expecting all sorts of winding him up. I don't think he'll take the bait this time though.
As a matter of interest who do most people want to win?
I either want Kerry to win, or Dublin to win by a cricket score. If Dublin do that, maybe Kerry will break up this team and have a lot of retirements. Then Tipp can win a Munster.
I just want tyrone bate.
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 26, 2016, 04:03:40 PM
I either want Kerry to win, or Dublin to win by a cricket score. If Dublin do that, maybe Kerry will break up this team and have a lot of retirements. Then Tipp can win a Munster.
Do Tipp not have enough 'Munsters'?
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on August 26, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
You haven't won an All Ireland if you don't beat Kerry... which Tyrone did for fun.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on August 26, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
The 2016 All Ireland Senior Football Championship runners up ;) (See what I did there)
I dunno really, from what we know so far I suppose on pure football ability terms youd have to say we would prefer Kerry as Dublin are a better team (doesn't mean they will win on Sunday but they have more weapons and ability than Kerry).
However our record against Kerry in finals is wogus, and they will believe all they have to do is shake the jersey at us and they can head off down the motorway with Sam.
Doesn't matter anyway, whoever it is we wont be given a chance for the first two weeks of the build up, then for the third week you'll start hearing a few voices give us some chance but we'll be distinct underdogs.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on August 26, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
The Vatican over-80s Junior C team.
Quote from: muppet on August 26, 2016, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on August 26, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
The Vatican over-80s Junior C team.
Not with that curse hanging over their heads. Something like that could double the sentence.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on August 26, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
A Pat Hickey Prison XI.
Think we'd have a better chance against 11.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on August 26, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Who would the Mayo lads prefer to meet in the final?
Option A. Dublin who haven't won back to back All Irelands since the 80s. A hangover year for them, without two of their best defenders and doubts about a 3rd. Mayos record against defending All Ireland champions is second to none.
Option B. Kerry who would be on almighty high if they beat Dublin on Sunday. Too much baggage from the last Kerry,Mayo championship meeting and Mayos record against Kerry in the championship is poor. No win for 20 years.
Kerry team named.
1. Brian Kelly Killarney Legion
2. Shane Enright Tarbert
3. Mark Griffin St Michaels/Foilmore
4. Killian Young (C) Renard
5. Brian Ó Beaglaoich An Ghaeltacht
6. Peter Crowley Laune Rangers
7. Tadhg Morley Templenoe
8. Kieran Donaghy Austin Stacks
9. David Moran Kerins O'Rahillys
10. Paul Murphy Rathmore
11. Colm Cooper Dr Crokes
12. Donnchadh Walsh Cromane
13. Stephen O'Brien Kenmare
14. Paul Geaney Dingle
15. James O'Donoghue Killarney Legion
I'd be amazed if that was the starting line-up.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 26, 2016, 09:21:17 PM
Kerry team named.
1. Brian Kelly Killarney Legion
2. Shane Enright Tarbert
3. Mark Griffin St Michaels/Foilmore
4. Killian Young (C) Renard
5. Brian Ó Beaglaoich An Ghaeltacht
6. Peter Crowley Laune Rangers
7. Tadhg Morley Templenoe
8. Kieran Donaghy Austin Stacks
9. David Moran Kerins O'Rahillys
10. Paul Murphy Rathmore
11. Colm Cooper Dr Crokes
12. Donnchadh Walsh Cromane
13. Stephen O'Brien Kenmare
14. Paul Geaney Dingle
15. James O'Donoghue Killarney Legion
I'd be amazed if that was the starting line-up.
So would I. Donaghy midfield and Cooper centre half forward have mobility issues and will get overrun against the Dubs. Can't see either starting or I'd fear for Kerry with that line up.
Looking forward to this one - not because I think it will be close, but more a curiosity to see if Kerry offer anything different from what they have delivered over the past 2 years. The reality now is that both individually and collectively Dublin are the most outstanding team in the country, and that has been demonstrated to a consistently high standard over a number of years. Kerry are the latest to try and out-think Dublin, but I just don't believe it can be done this year.
For all the talk of Kerry's attacking strategy for Sunday and whether they can unleash an inside line of Geaney - Donaghy - O'Donoghue, their middle eight are considerably weaker than Dublin's and this will be there downfall. They don't have enough pace and power in this area, with converted half backs in the forwards, midfielders in defence, and an average midfield by Kerry standards. I cant see them getting enough quality ball into their talented inside men, as Dublin's athleticism always means they have bodies in the right place, regardless of whether they are tactically set up correctly or not
If conditions are good I think Dublin could do a serious job on Kerry in this one - an 8pts+ win isn't fanciful.
I think defeat on Sunday ends the careers of a lot of Kerry players, and probably the manager as well. The old guard owe Fitzmaurice a big game, as he has been savagely loyal to them over the past 2 years, but I dont think that will happen.
Quote from: Erne Man on August 26, 2016, 09:35:19 PM
Looking forward to this one - not because I think it will be close, but more a curiosity to see if Kerry offer anything different from what they have delivered over the past 2 years. The reality now is that both individually and collectively Dublin are the most outstanding team in the country, and that has been demonstrated to a consistently high standard over a number of years. Kerry are the latest to try and out-think Dublin, but I just don't believe it can be done this year.
For all the talk of Kerry's attacking strategy for Sunday and whether they can unleash an inside line of Geaney - Donaghy - O'Donoghue, their middle eight are considerably weaker than Dublin's and this will be there downfall. They don't have enough pace and power in this area, with converted half backs in the forwards, midfielders in defence, and an average midfield by Kerry standards. I cant see them getting enough quality ball into their talented inside men, as Dublin's athleticism always means they have bodies in the right place, regardless of whether they are tactically set up correctly or not
If conditions are good I think Dublin could do a serious job on Kerry in this one - an 8pts+ win isn't fanciful.
I think defeat on Sunday ends the careers of a lot of Kerry players, and probably the manager as well. The old guard owe Fitzmaurice a big game, as he has been savagely loyal to them over the past 2 years, but I dont think that will happen.
When you look at the Kerry team sheet that's what sticks out like a sore thumb. The Dubs have a big advantage in this area. All of their players are like 400m runners, supreme athletes who can all play football. Kerry have some good players like Crowley, Moran and Walsh in this area but nowhere near the strength of Dublin.
I can't wait to see this game tomorrow and where the two teams are really at this year. Kerry have been more blessed than Mayo on the run to the semi final but they've looked efficient and having O' Donaghue fit is a big plus. The Dubs have spluttered a bit in recent games but have never looked like losing. The Kerrymen will certainly test the crackly nature of Connolly and McMahon to see if they can get them to bite. Gavin will surely have been working on this since the quarter final but the questions around discipline are still there to be answered.
The Kerry media have been in full flow this week, each trying to convince each other they can do it while not really believing what they are writing themselves.
A lot of people have made the point that the margin of victories in the last two games despite Kerry being poor which gives them hope from a Kerry perspective. I look at it in a different way, Dublin dominated Kerry in those two games despite being in cruise control and extremely wasteful in those games. As I see it, Kerry are beaten before they even enter the pitch, Dublin right now to them is a lot worse than Tyrone were back in 00s.
Who knows what will happen but the way the Kerry media and players are building themselves up into a public frenzy trying to convince themselves they can do it must be music to Dublin's ears. They can see this facade for what it is.
The Kerry backline is a huge cause for concern as well, apart from Crowley they are all weak links. Young is a decent wing back but he's not really up to it at corner back. Enright is the most overrated player in the country, a black card waiting to happen at any stage in the game when he inevitably gets roasted. Griffin has been knocking about the panel for years but Fitzmaurice has opted for veterans well past their best ahead of him, hardly a vote of confidence for his abilities. The two wing backs are rookies who have never played in a game of this magnitude and they come up against some of the best in the business. Crowley is a good player but he gets involve in a lot of nonsense and is lucky he doesn't have his card marked by the media - he would if he played for other counties. I'll presume he'll be the one tasked with getting Connolly sent off.
Kerry have to start like a house on fire because if Dublin build an early lead up and Kerry have to step out and stop protecting that defence it could get very messy for them.
Kerry could get a real hammering. They have racked up all Irelands over the last 15 years but mostly by beating the psychologically weak Cork and Mayo, both twice . The only strong team they beat since 2000 in an all Ireland is Donegal.
Their record is not as good as it looks on paper.
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2016, 09:11:58 AM
Kerry could get a real hammering. They have racked up all Irelands over the last 15 years but mostly by beating the psychologically weak Cork and Mayo, both twice . The only strong team they beat since 2000 in an all Ireland is Donegal.
Their record is not as good as it looks on paper.
So Dublin (2) . Tyrone (2) and Armagh (1) were soft All Ireland cos they beat a weak Kerry team . Thanks for that .
Has the Dublin team been named?
Quote from: ashman on August 27, 2016, 09:31:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2016, 09:11:58 AM
Kerry could get a real hammering. They have racked up all Irelands over the last 15 years but mostly by beating the psychologically weak Cork and Mayo, both twice . The only strong team they beat since 2000 in an all Ireland is Donegal.
Their record is not as good as it looks on paper.
So Dublin (2) . Tyrone (2) and Armagh (1) were soft All Ireland cos they beat a weak Kerry team . Thanks for that .
Kerry couldn't beat Tyrone and it looks like they can't beat Dublin. Why would that be ?
I hope Kerry make a game of it. I think Dublin will really do a number on them.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on August 27, 2016, 09:04:58 AM
The Kerry media have been in full flow this week, each trying to convince each other they can do it while not really believing what they are writing themselves.
A lot of people have made the point that the margin of victories in the last two games despite Kerry being poor which gives them hope from a Kerry perspective. I look at it in a different way, Dublin dominated Kerry in those two games despite being in cruise control and extremely wasteful in those games. As I see it, Kerry are beaten before they even enter the pitch, Dublin right now to them is a lot worse than Tyrone were back in 00s.
Who knows what will happen but the way the Kerry media and players are building themselves up into a public frenzy trying to convince themselves they can do it must be music to Dublin's ears. They can see this facade for what it is.
The Kerry backline is a huge cause for concern as well, apart from Crowley they are all weak links. Young is a decent wing back but he's not really up to it at corner back. Enright is the most overrated player in the country, a black card waiting to happen at any stage in the game when he inevitably gets roasted. Griffin has been knocking about the panel for years but Fitzmaurice has opted for veterans well past their best ahead of him, hardly a vote of confidence for his abilities. The two wing backs are rookies who have never played in a game of this magnitude and they come up against some of the best in the business. Crowley is a good player but he gets involve in a lot of nonsense and is lucky he doesn't have his card marked by the media - he would if he played for other counties. I'll presume he'll be the one tasked with getting Connolly sent off.
Kerry have to start like a house on fire because if Dublin build an early lead up and Kerry have to step out and stop protecting that defence it could get very messy for them.
That is something very unusual for Kerry. Normally they are trying to talk themselves down without believing what they are saying becuase underneath they have a superiority complex. This time around it is the opposite you feel with Sheehan and Fitzmaurice talking themselves up because underneath you feel as though they have now got an inferiority complex with Dublin. They are issuing a rally call to try and convince themselves they can beat the Dubs. They know they can't match them football wise so they are going to have to reduce themselves to the role of a giant killer by going defensive and winning through some previously unseen tactic rather than relying on simple football ability. I really hope Kerry can do themselves justice and we can see a classic because the closer this game gets and when I look at the Kerry teamsheet I can only see one outcome.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 27, 2016, 11:32:39 AM
I hope Kerry make a game of it. I think Dublin will really do a number on them.
Agreed. Shocked if it's not Dublin by 6+.
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2016, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: ashman on August 27, 2016, 09:31:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2016, 09:11:58 AM
Kerry could get a real hammering. They have racked up all Irelands over the last 15 years but mostly by beating the psychologically weak Cork and Mayo, both twice . The only strong team they beat since 2000 in an all Ireland is Donegal.
Their record is not as good as it looks on paper.
So Dublin (2) . Tyrone (2) and Armagh (1) were soft All Ireland cos they beat a weak Kerry team . Thanks for that .
Kerry couldn't beat Tyrone and it looks like they can't beat Dublin. Why would that be ?
They weren't good enough . Dublin are far far better now to be frank . Nothing to do with mental stuff , tradition etc ....
So McCarthy in and Kilkenny back to half forward.
Bastick in for Macauley (annoyed at that, MDMA wasn't great v Donegal, but Bastick was worse when he came on)
Mannion in, Andrews and Kev Mac dropped (flummoxed at that)
Not that you can trust the team named would be the starting team!
I know this doesn t make much sense but I would fear McManamon more coming on with 20 to go when game is stretching a bit and backs are beginning to blow a bit.
I have to get one wrong sometime so it's
Kerry by 2. :o
Quote from: moysider on August 27, 2016, 02:34:33 PM
I know this doesn t make much sense but I would fear McManamon more coming on with 20 to go when game is stretching a bit and backs are beginning to blow a bit.
Probably Dublin's best forward the last day given Connolly deciding to regress back to nonsense again. The lad must be lost at exactly what he would need to do to hold down a starting position at this stage. Managers have totally pigeon-holed him as a super sub.
The way Kerry are written off by some reminds me of Donegal 2014. Tomorrows game will have a full house it's between the two sides in land I don't really care who wins but I hope the game lives up to its hype and isn't another shocking watch like last years All Ireland final.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 27, 2016, 03:42:22 PM
The way Kerry are written off by some reminds me of Donegal 2014. Tomorrows game will have a full house it's between the two sides in land I don't really care who wins but I hope the game lives up to its hype and isn't another shocking watch like last years All Ireland final.
If it lives up to the hype it's going to be a handy Dublin win.
Quote from: moysider on August 27, 2016, 02:34:33 PM
I know this doesn t make much sense but I would fear McManamon more coming on with 20 to go when game is stretching a bit and backs are beginning to blow a bit.
Yea and when the referee has mental fatigue with things like number of bounces and steps and stuff... ;)
Quote from: muppet on August 27, 2016, 05:40:50 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 27, 2016, 02:34:33 PM
I know this doesn t make much sense but I would fear McManamon more coming on with 20 to go when game is stretching a bit and backs are beginning to blow a bit.
Yea and when the referee has mental fatigue with things like number of bounces and steps and stuff... ;)
Yeah the Mac loves the 5+ steps and the consecutive bounce. What can you say, he gets away with it.
And the karate chop
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 09:39:32 PM
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Theres always one , you could of just left it at one to sound more believable.
Coddle poisoning.
Quote from: larryin89 on August 27, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 09:39:32 PM
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Theres always one , you could of just left it at one to sound more believable.
McCarthy is gone for season. Flynn groin gone again
Quote from: larryin89 on August 27, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 09:39:32 PM
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Theres always one , you could of just left it at one to sound more believable.
Larry you just have to wonder is this just bad luck for Dublin or is everything falling nicely in place for Mayo to finally end their senior famine.
Kerry to win by 4 tomorrow. Connolly to get the line again.
Huge game tomorrow... Was expecting to turn on rte tonight to watch 'Up for the Semi' with Gráinne Seoige
If it was the winter I'd grab my coat
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on August 27, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 09:39:32 PM
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Theres always one , you could of just left it at one to sound more believable.
McCarthy is gone for season. Flynn groin gone again
Is that a haiku?
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on August 27, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 09:39:32 PM
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Theres always one , you could of just left it at one to sound more believable.
McCarthy is gone for season. Flynn groin gone again
There were rumours several weeks ago that McCarty was gone for the year, yet he still shows up in teamsheets? Are they hoping they can get one match out of him before he has some surgery or something. McCarty and Flynn missing as well as McCaffrey and O Carroll must leave Dubs vulnerable to an extent. 1/4 of the team.
Quote from: JoG2 on August 27, 2016, 10:21:43 PM
Huge game tomorrow... Was expecting to turn on rte tonight to watch 'Up for the Semi' with Gráinne Seoige
If it was the winter I'd grab my coat
Even Grainne must be tired of the usual Dubs/Kerry/Mayo/Kilkenny/Tipp in those shows.
Quote from: JoG2 on August 27, 2016, 10:21:43 PM
Huge game tomorrow... Was expecting to turn on rte tonight to watch 'Up for the final' with Gráinne Seoige
If it was the winter I'd grab my coat
Edited that for you JoG2!!
The reality is though that this is the de facto final.
Quote from: moysider on August 27, 2016, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on August 27, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on August 27, 2016, 09:39:32 PM
James McCarthy and Paul Flynn out tomorrow for Dublin. We will struggle to win this now
Theres always one , you could of just left it at one to sound more believable.
McCarthy is gone for season. Flynn groin gone again
There were rumours several weeks ago that McCarty was gone for the year, yet he still shows up in teamsheets? Are they hoping they can get one match out of him before he has some surgery or something. McCarty and Flynn missing as well as McCaffrey and O Carroll must leave Dubs vulnerable to an extent. 1/4 of the team.
Flynn has been playing through pain barrier for last 2 years. Not been at his best though had a good final against Kerry last year. McCarthy is a strange one, togged out against Donegal. If he was anyway fit he would of been brought on when Connolly/Brogan went off to steady the ship so I cant see him figuring for rest of season. We really running low on backs. We have lost Rory O'Carroll, Jack McCaffrey, Ger Brennan, James McCarthy, Kevin Nolan, Nicky Devereux & Kevin O'Brien for various reasons. Eric Lowndes is another year or two from making the step up. Fitzsimmons and Daly are good subs to bring on
Don't believe either team named for tomorrow will start. Very surprised by the Kerry team no Darren O Sullivan. Not confident at all.
Quote from: johnpower on August 28, 2016, 12:02:13 AM
Don't believe either team named for tomorrow will start. Very surprised by the Kerry team no Darren O Sullivan. Not confident at all.
Sure how could you be confident?
If Dublin are without McCarty and Flynn they can hardly be too confident either. All to play for now.
Quote from: johnpower on August 28, 2016, 12:02:13 AM
Don't believe either team named for tomorrow will start. Very surprised by the Kerry team no Darren O Sullivan. Not confident at all.
Ye should win now. We have too many lads missing injuries/travelling. Our bench wouldn't the strongest now with so many bodies gone.
Quote from: Gael85 on August 28, 2016, 12:35:23 AM
Quote from: johnpower on August 28, 2016, 12:02:13 AM
Don't believe either team named for tomorrow will start. Very surprised by the Kerry team no Darren O Sullivan. Not confident at all.
Ye should win now. We have too many lads missing injuries/travelling. Our bench wouldn't the strongest now with so many bodies gone.
That's the thing. Kilkenny don't look as formidable now either without likes of JJ Delaney, Tommy Walsh, Shefflin and others. The lads that replace top players are just not as good. O Carroll, McCarty, McCaffrey and Flynn would be in a best of Ireland selection of a 20 squad.
Flynn wouldn't be anymore.
If Kerry go defensive I think they'll be still within a kick or two with 10 left even if the better team is quite clear. If they go for broke, as I hope they do, you'd never know. They still have some serious footballers in their squad and perhaps the best way to take on Dublin is to have a go off them. I don't think that's what they'll do but it might be worth trying.
Quote from: Zulu on August 28, 2016, 01:07:07 AM
Flynn wouldn't be anymore.
If Kerry go defensive I think they'll be still within a kick or two with 10 left even if the better team is quite clear. If they go for broke, as I hope they do, you'd never know. They still have some serious footballers in their squad and perhaps the best way to take on Dublin is to have a go off them. I don't think that's what they'll do but it might be worth trying.
A fit Flynn is a top player. Nobody is a top player if they are injured. My point is that quality players like Flynn and the others don t come along too often - even for a county like Dublin. We've seen Dublin play an odd league game without Cluxton e.g. Vulnerable or what?
I'm sure Kerry will be well aware of what is happening in Dublin as regards injuries and stuff. McAuley is another that appears to be a bit off.
The thing is though are Dublin going to be better team with those players missing?
People dismissing some of the newer Kerry players as well. When I saw young Paul Murphy for first time a couple of years ago I thought it was a joke. Looked like he should have been with the minor team but ended up on the wrong bus. He ended up with mom's and an All-Star I think?
No idea how Kerry will and should go about this. I suspect they will go conservative though and suck the swagger out of Dublin, who may be vulnerable if all these injuries are true. I'm expecting a cagey game.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 27, 2016, 11:31:04 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 27, 2016, 10:21:43 PM
Huge game tomorrow... Was expecting to turn on rte tonight to watch 'Up for the Semi' with Gráinne Seoige
If it was the winter I'd grab my coat
Even Grainne must be tired of the usual Dubs/Kerry/Mayo/Kilkenny/Tipp in those shows.
True but until other teams can match these we should be thankful for these for giving us some crackers. Everyone would have loved tipp to beat mayo in the semi and break the usual final pairings weve been having. That would have lasted 5 mins though until people realised that the dubs would destroy us in a one sided final.
Call this game.
Draw
Dublin by 4.
Dublin by a comfortable 3 points
Although with all the rumours dublin seem to be down at least half their team!!
Dublin by around 12 points. 2-3 blacks (O Mahoney, Moran) and a red (Star) for Kerry. Hopefully Connolly picks up a clear red too - always a chance of that - and misses the final... would be a better game that way.
Dublin by 7 Pts
I'd say close to the league final result. I'd love a dirty game where they injure the shite out of each other too... ;)
Interesting that both dublin and mayo carry a man for the frees which was our own undoing and Kerry no longer carry Sheehan for the frees as well.
A draw would be a fair result. Both teams deserve xtra time and a replay.
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 10:20:18 AM
Interesting that both dublin and mayo carry a man for the frees which was our own undoing and Kerry no longer carry Sheehan for the frees as well.
That's really interesting alright. Really interesting
Quote from: moysider on August 28, 2016, 10:31:51 AM
A draw would be a fair result. Both teams deserve xtra time and a replay.
Yep. That would be the ideal preparation for whichever team wins through. Can't beat games as a preparation ............ imo of course.
Last year' s replay win for us was priceless as preparation.
Have plenty of time for Dean Rock as a contributor from play. Not the flashiest of forwards but very effective imo. Baffling decision imo last year in the AIF to take him off.
Dublin should win this encounter by 8 points, Kerrys best days are behind them and their best player is an Ulsterman
===========================
Watch Live ▶ ▶ http://sports-newshd24.com/gaa/dublin-vs-kerry-live/
Watch Live ▶ ▶ http://sports-newshd24.com/gaa/dublin-vs-kerry-live/
===========================
Any updates on Flynn and McCarthy are they both definitely out?
Having a nosh on Enright to get sent off @ 25/1.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 28, 2016, 02:03:26 PM
Any updates on Flynn and McCarthy are they both definitely out?
Both starting. Mdma in for Bastick, Kevin mc in for mannion.
Maher in for O'brien
O'Donoghue not starting?
Quote from: yellowcard on August 28, 2016, 02:03:26 PM
Any updates on Flynn and McCarthy are they both definitely out?
Proved to be bullshite.
GAA Go stream crashing, once again. They've been streaming GAA for more than a decade. You'd think they'd have it figured out by now?? >:(
Philly will have a field day running up the field here.
Kerry going for a shoot-out. Only one winner there.
Kerry have got this all wrong.
Ref not going to give Connolly a free here, a couple of times now arms round him and him been fouled and not getting it
I see Diarmuid '8 Steps' Connolly is at it again! It's a nice game for the neutral - count how many times he and Michael Darragh McCauley over carry the ball and never get blown up for it.
Is Paul Flynn playing?
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 03:42:17 PM
I see Diarmuid '8 Steps' Connolly is at it again! It's a nice game for the neutral - count how many times he and Michael Darragh McCauley over carry the ball and never get blown up for it.
He took a lot of steps for first score.
This is a bit boring .
Hill 16 booing Donaghy shows scummy side.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 28, 2016, 03:42:43 PM
Is Paul Flynn playing?
Was just thinking that he hasn't been mentioned at all, he's been living off his name for the past two years.
Surely it was a foul for Donaghy on the throw up ball to start with
Don't see anything so far to have us worried - Kerry will probably hang in, get a couple of goals and make Dubs pay for their casualness.
Game living up to its hype so far! touch wood it stays that way.
Kerry look like a team that are saving themselves for the 2nd half.
The game could be over by then.
kerry kepper would need to hit the ball down the throat of his big midfielders, they are losing out to kicks in the half back line
Cooper and Brogan legs are both gone.
Four points so far from the Kerry kickout
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 03:42:17 PM
I see Diarmuid '8 Steps' Connolly is at it again! It's a nice game for the neutral - count how many times he and Michael Darragh McCauley over carry the ball and never get blown up for it.
Most of the Dubs continously over carry. You have to fear for Kerry, real rabbit in the headlights stuff at times and winning very little breaking ball which has them on the back foot far too often
Quote from: Mayo Mick on August 28, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
Don't see anything so far to have us worried - Kerry will probably hang in, get a couple of goals and make Dubs pay for their casualness.
Good man Mick, that's the spirit (not that oul ghost). Up Mayo! ;)
Thats what this short kick out shit can get you, shocking mistake
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 03:42:17 PM
I see Diarmuid '8 Steps' Connolly is at it again! It's a nice game for the neutral - count how many times he and Michael Darragh McCauley over carry the ball and never get blown up for it.
Most of the Dubs continously over carry. You have to fear for Kerry, real rabbit in the headlights stuff at times and winning very little breaking ball which has them on the back foot far too often
It's not just the Dubs in fairness. It's another one of those annoying little things that have been allowed to slide over the past ten years. Players like McCauley carry 5/6 steps into and out of contact all the time. In his case it's because he's such a poor solo runner. Paddy McBrearty and Darren O'Sullivan are frequent culprits too.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 28, 2016, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo Mick on August 28, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
Don't see anything so far to have us worried - Kerry will probably hang in, get a couple of goals and make Dubs pay for their casualness.
Good man Mick, that's the spirit (not that oul ghost). Up Mayo! ;)
As I said....
Now.
If O'Donoghue is fit they need to bring him in.
Thoroughly enjoyable stuff so far. Kerry a bit one dimensional with the long ball into the full forward line. But game on now...
Cluxton (and Dublin) rattled...
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 04:02:07 PM
Cluxton (and Dublin) rattled...
They don't seem to cope well when under any pressure at all.
This is way more enjoyable than I had hoped! Interesting to see how Dublin perform in a tight contest! It's been so long!
Cluxton having a meltdown.
In fairness to the Kerry lads, they're asking questions that the Dubs just don't have an answer for right now.Kudos.
Should it not be black card for McMahon? Mouthing.
Jamedy, bit of a turn around there.
Anyone get a bet on Kerry about 10 mins in?
2014 all over again for Dublin??
Not sure about that second goal! Cluxton is having an absolute disaster
Dubs are a complete mess when things don't go their way! Fair play to Kerry, the thought of playing Mayo in another AI final is clearly inspiring them. This should be a cracking second half!
Jesus, no hawkeye for that??
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
Quote from: gallsman on August 28, 2016, 04:09:21 PM
Not sure about that second goal! Cluxton is having an absolute disaster
Commentators seemed certain it was a goal somehow. Don't think there was any way of telling from the angles shown. Can't hawkeye be used for goal decisions?
LOL @ Dubs
Thought Kerry were in for a baytin but fair fecks to them.
Half time came at the wrong time for Kerry. They had Dublin on the rack.
Kerry exploiting the deficiencies in the Dublin defence, which they had to be patient about, and they were. Cluxton nightmare.
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 04:07:58 PM
Should it not be black card for McMahon? Mouthing.
Ref was all over it too. Clear cut. Strange.
Quote from: Mayo Mick on August 28, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
Don't see anything so far to have us worried - Kerry will probably hang in, get a couple of goals and make Dubs pay for their casualness.
Much as I thought. Dubs have been poor enough in attack with little support play. All Kerry need to do now is get more ball in and they will probably get a couple of more goals. Expect this will be their AI and we will exploit their obvious weaknesses...
Cluxton at fault for both goals. Second half will now show what the mighty Dubs are really made of.
Kerry supreme opportunists. In for some second half
So here we are at half time and we find out Kerry are not as bad as we thought and Dublin are not as good.
Kerry got back in the game because of a catastrophic error by Cluxton.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin still won handy.
Half-time came just as Kerry were turning the screw.
Dublin have time to re-group now.
Fair fucks to them. I thought they were done after 15 minutes.
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 04:10:28 PM
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
'deserve's' got nothing to do with it!
I'm missing the cagey chess aspect in this game. :'( ;)
When was the last time the dubs were down by 5?
Still fancy them to do it somehow....jammy goals for kerry..
Do you remember ciaran kilkennys 50 odd possessions against Donegal and everyone raving about it................
Carney: Kerry have filtered a lot of tension from their system! FFS
I hate Martin Carney
Probably the best gaelic match Sky have had so far. Start of the second half crucial. Dubs can pull this back easy enough if they don't have another meltdown.
Nearly forgot Paul Flynn was playing.
Best game dean Rock has played
It's a shame that quality players like Flynn and Kilkenny don't get opportunities to shine in this Dublin system. All they do is move the ball on and fill space in the midfield third.
That was a big miss by Cooper.
Whoever is responsible for this GAA Go stream needs to get the boot immediately. f**king disgrace.
Great point by Barry John the wee pup
Dubs showing why they are champions now. Very interesting last fifteen minutes ahead.
Replay for Limerick?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 28, 2016, 04:44:56 PM
Dubs showing why they are champions now. Very interesting last fifteen minutes ahead.
They are?
Kerry have weathered storm and Dubs getting ragged and making mistakes. Hard to see Dubs getting a goal. Kerry to hang in.
Stephen O Brien making a big difference.
Rock doing very well.
You'd imagine Dublin's fitness will tell in the last ten if they can keep their heads
Well my bet is fecked anyway. Last time I gamble on anything till (the hurling final.)
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 04:48:12 PM
Rock doing very well.
You'd imagine Dublin's fitness will tell in the last ten if they can keep their heads
I'd take experience over fitness any day
The Kingdom having to work that bit harder for frees.
A barnstorming finish awaits
How was there a foul there
Never a free
Today shows why kevin mcmanamon is better as an impact sub against the better sides!
Quote from: The Trap on August 28, 2016, 04:50:55 PM
How was there a foul there
I hope this game ends the myth that David Gough is a good referee.
No free there either........
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 04:55:47 PM
Quote from: The Trap on August 28, 2016, 04:50:55 PM
How was there a foul there
I hope this game ends the myth that David Gough is a good referee.
He is riding Kerry.
Could be 5 or 6 minutes of added time. Been loads of substitutions.
Very soft frees has Dublin level. Mayo will be happy with a draw.
I'd love a draw and to watch another game.
Kerry making silly mistakes as fatigue kicks in.
Quote from: SCFC on August 28, 2016, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 04:55:47 PM
Quote from: The Trap on August 28, 2016, 04:50:55 PM
How was there a foul there
I hope this game ends the myth that David Gough is a good referee.
He is riding Kerry.
...Or the law of averages is working itself out
Cluxton cameo at the death??
O'Gara you big lug. ;D
Kerry to shade it. Probably late point from Marc O Sé
Gough will give Kerry a scorable free to level it up.
Last 3 Dublin points were beauts to be fair. Probably be grateful that there's no replay.
Some score from Connolly! Delighted the game wasn't won by a Donkey like O'Gara. Well done Dublin - they'll absolutely tank Mayo.
How can you beat the dubs at home and with a homer ref?
David Gough Dublin MOTM
Ah boys, Gough was very sore on Kerry in that half. He had a mare of a 2nd half.
Superb game, hard and for the most part fair. 2 superb teams littered with excellent footballers.
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Dublin at home in the final.............Bring it on! 8) ;D
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 05:06:19 PM
David Gough Dublin MOTM
How he was appointed I don't know
Teaches and lives in Dublin
Class game! Very enjoyable. Nothing wrong with Gaelic football when we get the better teams playing each other!
Fair play to both teams cynical at the end but thoroughly enjoyable. Mc mana men an rock the arcitects.
Glad kerry are out. would rather watch a dublin v mayo final.
Scummy bastids!
Dublin resident David Gough steers them through to the final.
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 05:05:57 PM
Some score from Connolly! Delighted the game wasn't won by a Donkey like O'Gara. Well done Dublin - they'll absolutely tank Mayo.
F&*$ off!
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 05:08:23 PM
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 05:05:57 PM
Some score from Connolly! Delighted the game wasn't won by a Donkey like O'Gara. Well done Dublin - they'll absolutely tank Mayo.
F&*$ off!
lOl! Sorry bunker - you know yourself!
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
I don't think it was shoulder to shoulder.
There was a massive gap between the two teams in fitness . Add Gough and the playing field frankly not level .
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
It looked to be into his chest, manly or not
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
Would like to see another look at it i thought it was more frontal than shoulder to shoulder.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
Not a hope jinxy. Right into the face. I'm amazed he didn't give a free there.
Great game but the Cluxton f**k ups kept it tight (beat my Dublin -3 as well😕)
Where does your chest start and your shoulder stop?
Credit to both sets of players a classic game that lived up to its hype. And from the bunker yes Dublin showed why they are champions today. Five points down things going against them yet they still won by two points.
Told ye. Kerry scored ten unanswered (well Cluxton gifted six of them) and it still wasn't enough. That is very frightening.
Why was Geaney taken off?
The rule is side to side not shoulder to shoulder, it was changed a few years back, still a foul all the same
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 28, 2016, 05:11:24 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
Not a hope jinxy. Right into the face. I'm amazed he didn't give a free there.
He was looking straight at it too
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 04:48:12 PM
Rock doing very well.
You'd imagine Dublin's fitness will tell in the last ten if they can keep their heads
I'd take experience over fitness any day
*cough cough
Kerry didn't have the gas.
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:14:30 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 28, 2016, 05:11:24 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
No way that was a fair hit on Crowley
Proper manly shoulder.
100% legit.
Not a hope jinxy. Right into the face. I'm amazed he didn't give a free there.
He was looking straight at it too
To be fair to the Referee, it's hard to give a free against the home team in the final minutes of such an important match.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: CD on August 28, 2016, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 04:48:12 PM
Rock doing very well.
You'd imagine Dublin's fitness will tell in the last ten if they can keep their heads
I'd take experience over fitness any day
*cough cough
Hah! Humbled! Fitness told there for sure! Great game!
2 men playing for Kerry going 36 at the finish says it all, only thing is Kerry be back in about 3 years beating the life out of all round them with the players they have coming
I like McMennamen, the kind of lad you'd want 5 or 6 of, hard to mark, can take on tacklers, kick points and can hit hard, maybe not fair but hard anyway.
Dublin will beat Mayo by..........whatever they want.
Quote from: The Trap on August 28, 2016, 05:19:35 PM
Dublin will beat Mayo by..........whatever they want.
9 or 10?
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 04:10:28 PM
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
'deserve's' got nothing to do with it!
Explain that logic to me, I stand by my point, a strong team like that who come back from 5 down derserve to be playing in the final
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: The Trap on August 28, 2016, 05:19:35 PM
Dublin will beat Mayo by..........whatever they want.
9 or 10?
Surprised they did not have the presentation of the Cup after the Match? The game against Mayo could be as the Goal Challenge game for the AI winners? It would save us a lot of the usual hardship and would draw a big crowd and raise a lot of money for Charity.
Cluxton's full blown meltdown will put a different slant on today's game. Really gave Kerry a way into a game they were being outclassed in.
Great game though.
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
By putting pressure on Cluxton's kick outs for a start I'd imagine
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
Does not matter where they start. Dublin will win pulling up.
Quote from: GJL on August 28, 2016, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
Does not matter where they start. Dublin will win pulling up.
Would you have liked Tyrone to have had a chance against this side or are you glad to be avoiding a tanking?
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
Brolly is a man of many contradictions .
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
It's a Dublin lovefest! Spillane is not complaining, because he is just happy Kerry were with Dublin going into injury time. In fairness to the referee, it's hard to make those call in Croker against a partisan crowd.
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
Spillane has no issues with him and I'm pretty sure said the reffing was good.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 28, 2016, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
Spillane has no issues with him and I'm pretty sure said the reffing was good.
He did. I couldn't believe it.
Don't think Dean Rock is getting the credit he deserves.
Gough wasn't the difference between the teams and overall had a good game.
I don't think the referee was a factor, he made some poor calls for both sides but nothing that was gamechanging.
O'Mahony got away with a certain yellow card, Crowley should have been booked a lot earlier. Enright got away with a a stonewall black card.
McCarthy was pulled for overcarrying 15 yards from his own goal when he pretty much got rid of it as soon as he did.
Kerry tried to hold out too early and you can't really do that against Dublin.
Thought the ref rode Kerry, dubs got a few handy frees while Kerry near had to be murdered to get a free. Thought that hit on Crowley was definite free to Kerry. But in saying all that you have to say the dubs are some team.
Two soft frees in front of the post. Debatable 45 as well. Worth three points. Free in not given for hit to Kerry to equalise. And both teams should have had a black card. A lot of bad calls. Kerry had to work harder for a free.
Can't say I'm sorry to see Kerry getting rode by a ref, what goes around comes around.
I wouldn't write Mayo off.
As history has shown us, many teams have stumbled into a final and then delivered a performance. While Mayo have been poor this year, they have shown themselves to be a match to Dublin in the past. They really need Diarmuid O'Connor back flying again though. They should leave O'Shea and Moran inside at all times as well and have the option to vary their play in long.
I'd put it 70/30 Dublin but Mayo are in a good place.
Quote from: GJL on August 28, 2016, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
Does not matter where they start. Dublin will win pulling up.
Probably.
But at least we know that there is nobody else that would do any better than Mayo will.
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Two soft frees in front of the post. Debatable 45 as well. Worth three points. Free in not given for hit to Kerry to equalise. And both teams should have had a black card. A lot of bad calls. Kerry had to work harder for a free.
The better team never has to work hard for a free, because the better team will get into better scoring positions and more than often be fouled to stop them. It's only logical that the better team looks effortless in getting a free?
Quote from: ballinaman on August 28, 2016, 05:52:20 PM
Can't say I'm sorry to see Kerry getting rode by a ref, what goes around comes around.
You can sing that one!
Quote from: ballinaman on August 28, 2016, 05:52:20 PM
Can't say I'm sorry to see Kerry getting rode by a ref, what goes around comes around.
A Meath ref for good measure! ;D
The real story today is the massive gap between Dublin and the best of the rest in terms of pure fitness . The Dubs are on another level in this regard.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Two soft frees in front of the post. Debatable 45 as well. Worth three points. Free in not given for hit to Kerry to equalise. And both teams should have had a black card. A lot of bad calls. Kerry had to work harder for a free.
The better team never has to work hard for a free, because the better team will get into better scoring positions and more than often be fouled to stop them. It's only logical that the better team looks effortless in getting a free?
One free I've seen a few times and there was literally no contact on a Dublin player. That's inexcusable.
Was that the one in the 2nd half where young blocked down a shot then the ref called it back? That one looked harsh to me.
Quote from: ashman on August 28, 2016, 06:02:05 PM
The real story today is the massive gap between Dublin and the best of the rest in terms of pure fitness . The Dubs are on another level in this regard.
Mayo are fitter than Kerry though.
If they lose the final, it won't be because they run out of puff.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on August 28, 2016, 05:52:20 PM
Can't say I'm sorry to see Kerry getting rode by a ref, what goes around comes around.
A Meath ref for good measure! ;D
We own the hymnsheet with that particular buachaill, and the Kerrry lads rented it today. Dublin, however, were deserved, just a bleedin'bout! ;)
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Two soft frees in front of the post. Debatable 45 as well. Worth three points. Free in not given for hit to Kerry to equalise. And both teams should have had a black card. A lot of bad calls. Kerry had to work harder for a free.
Was the debatable 45 pointed?
I wouldn't argue against the ref's questionable decisions having an influence in a close game, but Dublin came out on top and I wouldn't argue against that either.
I have the feeling that was our 2016 AI final.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 28, 2016, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
Spillane has no issues with him and I'm pretty sure said the reffing was good.
the ref was ok - kerry got a score in the first half from a very obvious throw under cusack stand. They got a late point the 2nd when the player must have taken 10 steps.
Quote from: straightred on August 28, 2016, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 28, 2016, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
Spillane has no issues with him and I'm pretty sure said the reffing was good.
the ref was ok - kerry got a score in the first half from a very obvious throw under cusack stand. They got a late point the 2nd when the player must have taken 10 steps.
The steps rule is as badly officiated in football as it is in hurling it seems
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Two soft frees in front of the post. Debatable 45 as well. Worth three points. Free in not given for hit to Kerry to equalise. And both teams should have had a black card. A lot of bad calls. Kerry had to work harder for a free.
The better team never has to work hard for a free, because the better team will get into better scoring positions and more than often be fouled to stop them. It's only logical that the better team looks effortless in getting a free?
One free I've seen a few times and there was literally no contact on a Dublin player. That's inexcusable.
That was one. McManamon's shoulder to the chest was another.
Then there were the two 'wides' in a row at either end. Kerry claimed a block and were waved away. McManamon seemed to throw the ball wide, had a fit and got a 45. On TV the Kerry one looked a better claim, but both were hard to call. A ref 40m metres away was not in a better position to call them than the umpires. Both of those calls went to the Dubs.
I agree about Griffin's card, should have been black.
My issue here is not the result. I didn't want to play either team in the final. ;D
It is the chronic inconsistency of the refereeing.
12 points for Dean Rock today without a doubt Dublins most improved and underrated player. Donaghy and O Sullivan both going off injured was a big blow to Kerry and the very inches Dublin needed to win a very competitive contest.
Happy with the win, better team one (just about).
All eyes on the final now - I predicted Mayo back in January and nothing has changed my mind.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 28, 2016, 06:50:12 PM
12 points for Dean Rock today without a doubt Dublins most improved and underrated player. Donaghy and O Sullivan both going off injured was a big blow to Kerry and the very inches Dublin needed to win a very competitive contest.
Yes Dean Rock was fantastic. I thought Johnny Cooper was good as well. Fenton has really grown into a top, top midfielder. Kerry's midfield hardly caught a ball. Part of that was McCauley's disruptive influence, but most of it was Fenton's real quality.
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 04:07:58 PM
Should it not be black card for McMahon? Mouthing.
That's what I thought. Might have had a big impact on the game. If it's not going to be used properly the black card has to go.
Great game though I have to say
It was a great tussle and the dubs showed a bit of character to win it from 5 pts behind,kerry seemed content sitting back on the lead only 5 pts 2nd half.
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 04:10:28 PM
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
'deserve's' got nothing to do with it!
Explain that logic to me, I stand by my point, a strong team like that who come back from 5 down derserve to be playing in the final
You predicted Dublin would hammer Kerry. You then dunged yourself thinking Kerry might win. It doesn't matter a darn who deserves to win, the scoreboard is all that matters. Logic baby!
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
The RTE panel have completely ignored this game's biggest issue, which is the sport's biggest issue.
Gough was worth way more than two points to Dublin today.
Totally agree.
One thing I wasn't sure about though, did the ball cross the line for Kerry's second goal? It looked to me like the whole of the ball might not have crossed.
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 06:32:32 PM
Then there were the two 'wides' in a row at either end. Kerry claimed a block and were waved away. McManamon seemed to throw the ball wide, had a fit and got a 45. On TV the Kerry one looked a better claim, but both were hard to call. A ref 40m metres away was not in a better position to call them than the umpires. Both of those calls went to the Dubs.
I found that decision to over-rule his umpire very bizarre. Even in the replay it looked unclear, and he was 40m away with no view of it.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
I obviously don't condone things being thrown at an official.
Maybe they should have given him a fair shoulder (his interpretation)! ;D
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
It would hurt a mans pride to have that done to you?
Great game. Thought Dublin deserved it. Can't recall the Kerry 45 you guys are talking about but agree with the Dublin one. Thought it was a wide.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
the point is what the reaction would be if it was Dublin fans.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
They make a pretty decent weapon if you roll them up tight and wield them like a truncheon.
Allegedly.
Shoulder to shoulder???????????
https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/ (https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/)
Gotta say also I thought the mcmanamon shoulder was a great one. Tough but fair. At the time. Just seen replays. Could well have been a free in
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 28, 2016, 07:33:09 PM
Gotta say also I thought the mcmanamon shoulder was a great one. Tough but fair. At the time. Just seen replays. Could well have been a free in
Should have been a free in actually.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq9UWifWEAAbtpS.jpg)
Quote from: moysider on August 28, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: GJL on August 28, 2016, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
Does not matter where they start. Dublin will win pulling up.
Probably.
But at least we know that there is nobody else that would do any better than Mayo will.
No that's not a dig at Mayo. Definitely they deserve to be there. They'll have 31 counties behind them, but the one area where the dubs were questioned was character and they passed with flying colours. The best teams will give them a game but they showed grit today in spades notwithstanding they tend to get the big decisions in a game by the officials.
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 07:35:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq9UWifWEAAbtpS.jpg)
Doesn't look completely over the line there but impossible to say from that angle.
Jesus lads the umpire had the best view and reacted straight away.. Goal
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2016, 07:43:21 PM
Jesus lads the umpire had the best view and reacted straight away.. Goal
The umpire who waved surely had the 2 Dublin players in his way no? I thought it was a goal mind you
100% legit goal.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 28, 2016, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
the point is what the reaction would be if it was Dublin fans.
Relief it wasn't anything worse? Cheer up, Indiana - you've more chips on your shoulder than Leo Burdock sees in a week.
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 07:37:01 PM
Quote from: moysider on August 28, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: GJL on August 28, 2016, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
Where the fcuk do Mayo start?
Does not matter where they start. Dublin will win pulling up.
Probably.
But at least we know that there is nobody else that would do any better than Mayo will.
No that's not a dig at Mayo. Definitely they deserve to be there. They'll have 31 counties behind them, but the one area where the dubs were questioned was character and they passed with flying colours. The best teams will give them a game but they showed grit today in spades notwithstanding they tend to get the big decisions in a game by the officials.
Of course they do. What do you expect when a team is playing at home? Mayo got a plethora of decisions in Castlebar this Summer. Home games, have a large home crowd who get on the back of the Referee and he is only human after all?
Lookit, in a hard-hitting, physical game you are going to get border-line decisions going your way or the oppositions way.
I can live with that if the alternative is to have the man in the middle ref the life out of a game.
Get out of the way and let them at it, I say.
Did todays performance by Cluxton make Evan Comerford favourite for all star now?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2016, 07:43:21 PM
Jesus lads the umpire had the best view and reacted straight away.. Goal
He did although his view of it was surely obscured somewhat by Cluxton. Have to give him the benefit of the doubt I guess because it's not clear on replay.
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 28, 2016, 08:06:16 PM
Did todays performance by Cluxton make Evan Comerford favourite for all star now?
It's a sign that time waits for no man. I think he should retire this year personally. Himself and a couple of others are close to it.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
Derrytresk lads up to no good again I see.
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Shoulder to shoulder???????????
https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/ (https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/)
And then to add insult to injury, Donaghy was black carded for this straight after
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/1207732/
Did donaghy not go off injured?
Quote from: bridgegael on August 28, 2016, 08:57:18 PM
Did donaghy not go off injured?
Impossible, the ref favoured Dublin and as the picture illustrates, it's a clear black card.
Quote from: heffo on August 28, 2016, 08:51:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Shoulder to shoulder???????????
https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/ (https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/)
And then to add insult to injury, Donaghy was black carded for this straight after
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/1207732/
He was booked and then asked to be took of as injured.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on August 28, 2016, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 28, 2016, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
the point is what the reaction would be if it was Dublin fans.
Relief it wasn't anything worse? Cheer up, Indiana - you've more chips on your shoulder than Leo Burdock sees in a week.
In fairness Kerry fans have some cheek complaining about a Meath ref doing them over in a semi-final. Throwing missiles at the fella (who wasn't a patch on Cormac Reilly by the way) is totally unacceptable. We were rode 9 ways to Sunday 2 years ago in Limerick and, apart from one big clown trying to get on the pitch, the Mayo fans showed unbelievable restraint. Of course you're fit to clatter the fella but you can't resort to physically assaulting him, ever.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
They make a pretty decent weapon if you roll them up tight and wield them like a truncheon.
Allegedly.
Maybe that was yer mans was thinking with the rolled up coats on Sludden
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Shoulder to shoulder???????????
https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/ (https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/)
A Meathman is never going to give a free for that. He probably loved it.
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 04:10:28 PM
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
'deserve's' got nothing to do with it!
Explain that logic to me, I stand by my point, a strong team like that who come back from 5 down derserve to be playing in the final
You predicted Dublin would hammer Kerry. You then dunged yourself thinking Kerry might win. It doesn't matter a darn who deserves to win, the scoreboard is all that matters. Logic baby!
Deserve is purely subjective. Fate is much more logical.
Quote from: thejuice on August 28, 2016, 09:19:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Shoulder to shoulder???????????
https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/ (https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/)
A Meathman is never going to give a free for that. He probably loved it.
I loved it to but I'd give a free all the same
...Twas straight outta Mick Lyons instruction manual,( well it would be if someone was able to translate Mick's grunts into written text) so he prob did come over a bit sentimental
Quote from: heffo on August 28, 2016, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: bridgegael on August 28, 2016, 08:57:18 PM
Did donaghy not go off injured?
Impossible, the ref favoured Dublin and as the picture illustrates, it's a clear black card.
Which of the black card fouls is that?
Quote from: thejuice on August 28, 2016, 09:19:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 28, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Shoulder to shoulder???????????
https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/ (https://vine.co/v/5egtK2BUOzJ/)
A Meathman is never going to give a free for that. He probably loved it.
Wouldn't be surprised if he shouted "BOOM!" ;D
If Kerry can get Geaney and O'Donoghue both 100% fit, they'll have a serious two man FF line.
Ball-winning ability, pace and killer instinct.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2016, 09:43:28 PM
If Dublin can get Geaney and O'Donoghue both 100% fit, they'll have a serious two man FF line.
Ball-winning ability, pace and killer instinct.
Why would Dublin care about Geaney and O'Donoghue?
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 28, 2016, 09:31:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 04:10:28 PM
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
'deserve's' got nothing to do with it!
Explain that logic to me, I stand by my point, a strong team like that who come back from 5 down derserve to be playing in the final
You predicted Dublin would hammer Kerry. You then dunged yourself thinking Kerry might win. It doesn't matter a darn who deserves to win, the scoreboard is all that matters. Logic baby!
Deserve is purely subjective. Fate is much more logical.
But ultimately doesn't matter a damn
Quote from: Ballaghman on August 28, 2016, 09:11:36 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on August 28, 2016, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 28, 2016, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 28, 2016, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 28, 2016, 07:11:36 PM
Objects thrown at referee David Gough
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=260128)
A programme wouldn't do much harm in fairness.
the point is what the reaction would be if it was Dublin fans.
Relief it wasn't anything worse? Cheer up, Indiana - you've more chips on your shoulder than Leo Burdock sees in a week.
In fairness Kerry fans have some cheek complaining about a Meath ref doing them over in a semi-final. Throwing missiles at the fella (who wasn't a patch on Cormac Reilly by the way) is totally unacceptable. We were rode 9 ways to Sunday 2 years ago in Limerick and, apart from one big clown trying to get on the pitch, the Mayo fans showed unbelievable restraint. Of course you're fit to clatter the fella but you can't resort to physically assaulting him, ever.
They've had a helping hand from match officials to the final in both their previous semi-finals. They must have got accustomed to it and I didn't think Gough was that favourable to Dublin.
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 09:49:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 28, 2016, 09:31:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 28, 2016, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on August 28, 2016, 04:10:28 PM
If Kerry win they don't deserve it, two lucky goals
'deserve's' got nothing to do with it!
Explain that logic to me, I stand by my point, a strong team like that who come back from 5 down derserve to be playing in the final
You predicted Dublin would hammer Kerry. You then dunged yourself thinking Kerry might win. It doesn't matter a darn who deserves to win, the scoreboard is all that matters. Logic baby!
Deserve is purely subjective. Fate is much more logical.
But ultimately doesn't matter a damn
Unless its connected to fate.....
Actually, it turns out the free where the kerryman blocked down the ball was correct - fouling BB off the ball by Enright.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Actually, it turns out the free where the kerryman blocked down the ball was correct - fouling BB off the ball by Enright.
And the touch the ball on the ground was correct. Shoulder was wrong but he didnt give a similar one the other way so at least he was consistently wrong. Anything else to clear up - the throw ball that led to a kerry point is still a throw ball but kerry don't want to mention that
As I said earlier the ref did ok and he certainly didn't affect the result
Quote from: straightred on August 28, 2016, 11:24:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Actually, it turns out the free where the kerryman blocked down the ball was correct - fouling BB off the ball by Enright.
And the touch the ball on the ground was correct. Shoulder was wrong but he didnt give a similar one the other way so at least he was consistently wrong. Anything else to clear up - the throw ball that led to a kerry point is still a throw ball but kerry don't want to mention that
As I said earlier the ref did ok and he certainly didn't affect the result
I was standing in the Hill today and Kevin Mac's attempted fist point was clearly blocked so Kerry fans can have no complaints. They can bitch and moan like a little girl about the tackle on Crowley in injury time but that was no different to the tackle on Philip McMahon that was not given as a free either.
Bottom line, Kerry got gifted 2 goals in the 1st half and still couldn't win today. They need to rebuild and replace the likes of Donaghy who spends more time moaning then playing football
Lads,
Good Jaysis
What a game
What a bunch of players
You just saw two heavyweights go toe to toe, and you're banging on about the ref!!!
If the Dubs lost I would not be saying that we were rode and none - NONE - of the many Kerrymen I spoke to at the game and after, thought that. The take from them was that they threw everything at us and they came up marginally short.
You're after seeing one of the greatest games of football ever. Whether we win an All Ireland or not, I was privileged to be there.
Quote from: dublin7 on August 28, 2016, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: straightred on August 28, 2016, 11:24:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Actually, it turns out the free where the kerryman blocked down the ball was correct - fouling BB off the ball by Enright.
And the touch the ball on the ground was correct. Shoulder was wrong but he didnt give a similar one the other way so at least he was consistently wrong. Anything else to clear up - the throw ball that led to a kerry point is still a throw ball but kerry don't want to mention that
As I said earlier the ref did ok and he certainly didn't affect the result
I was standing in the Hill today and Kevin Mac's attempted fist point was clearly blocked so Kerry fans can have no complaints. They can bitch and moan like a little girl about the tackle on Crowley in injury time but that was no different to the tackle on Philip McMahon that was not given as a free either.
Bottom line, Kerry got gifted 2 goals in the 1st half and still couldn't win today. They need to rebuild and replace the likes of Donaghy who spends more time moaning then playing football
d7
As a matter of Interest did you boo Donaghy today ??
Was it that great a game. Dublin controlled most of it quite comfortably. A purple patch from Kerry before half time gave them something to fight for in second half. But they only scored 5 points in the last 40 mins. Hardly vintage stuff.
Thought Rock should have been nominated for motm, he was excellent today
Rock was excellent. That's the thing. Put most emphasis trying to stop likes of Brogan and Connolly. and McMenaman, Mannion, Rock or Paddy Andrews will take up the slack and kill you anyway.
Quote from: ashman on August 28, 2016, 11:43:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 28, 2016, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: straightred on August 28, 2016, 11:24:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 28, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Actually, it turns out the free where the kerryman blocked down the ball was correct - fouling BB off the ball by Enright.
And the touch the ball on the ground was correct. Shoulder was wrong but he didnt give a similar one the other way so at least he was consistently wrong. Anything else to clear up - the throw ball that led to a kerry point is still a throw ball but kerry don't want to mention that
As I said earlier the ref did ok and he certainly didn't affect the result
I was standing in the Hill today and Kevin Mac's attempted fist point was clearly blocked so Kerry fans can have no complaints. They can bitch and moan like a little girl about the tackle on Crowley in injury time but that was no different to the tackle on Philip McMahon that was not given as a free either.
Bottom line, Kerry got gifted 2 goals in the 1st half and still couldn't win today. They need to rebuild and replace the likes of Donaghy who spends more time moaning then playing football
d7
As a matter of Interest did you boo Donaghy today ??
u
I didn't boo Donaghy not that that had any effect on the result today. I was actually disappointed he had to go off in the 2nd half as His legs had gone and he was contributing nothing to. the Kerry team
Marc and Gooch top players. O Mahoney a warrior. The type you would want in your side.
Donaghy would have few admirers outside Kerry, but arguably as important as any Kerry player as regards winning a couple of AIs. They got the most out of him. Kerry have always been great at squeezing the last drop out of important players. These lads wont be easily replaced, good and all as their recent minor teams look.
Rock clearly Dublin's most crucial player this year.
Ref kept Kerry in the game first half. Some very handy frees to keep them in touch prior to the goals.
Congrats to the Dubs, deserving winners just about, can't wait till we meet again
Great game was worth every penny of entrance fee
People whining about refs jaysus he let the game flow what more do you want
QuoteLads,
Good Jaysis
What a game
What a bunch of players
You just saw two heavyweights go toe to toe, and you're banging on about the ref!!!
If the Dubs lost I would not be saying that we were rode and none - NONE - of the many Kerrymen I spoke to at the game and after, thought that. The take from them was that they threw everything at us and they came up marginally short.
You're after seeing one of the greatest games of football ever. Whether we win an All Ireland or not, I was privileged to be there
Absolutely - great day in HQ and delighted to come out on the right side of the result
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 28, 2016, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: heffo on August 28, 2016, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: bridgegael on August 28, 2016, 08:57:18 PM
Did donaghy not go off injured?
Impossible, the ref favoured Dublin and as the picture illustrates, it's a clear black card.
Which of the black card fouls is that?
To deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play
What did people make of the first Kerry goal?
Watching on TV it initially just looked like a bad kick out but from what Ciaran Whelan said and what's written in the Irish Times today it looks like it was a premeditated tactic they had decided to do. Was brave and must have been very rewarding that it paid off so well. It was just surprising Kerry didn't push up more on the Dublin kickouts.
From the Times
Even as Cooper was taking the free, the whole of the Kerry team was pushing up the pitch to flood the Dublin half for Stephen Cluxton's kick-out.
Defenders even abandoned their posts, with four Dublin forwards left inside the Kerry 45 and only two men to keep tabs on them.
By the time Cluxton put the ball down to kick it out, 12 Kerry players were within his kicking range and each of them had their hands in the air waving frantically. Cluxton had to try and land a chopper in a minefield and it blew up in his face.
It's always hard to lose a game as tight and as competitive as that with so much at stake but for Gough not to give that last free for the Crowley shoulder into his chest was terrible. It's a tough job of course but I've noticed this year a few refs are slow to give any sort of free in the dying minutes of a match, probably because they think players are looking for frees.
Scoreline flattered Kerry, apart from that 5 minute spell before half time Dublin totally dominated that match and a 12 point wining margin would have been more reflective of the game. We could be looking at the best side ever seen playing Gaelic football. Players like McMahon, Cooper, O'Sullivan, Fenton, Connolly produced big games yesterday and Kerry threw whatever they could muster at the Dubs yesterday but they were still distinctly second best so there is no embarrassment in that. I would worry for Mayo in the final though, it could be a demolition job.
I might be in the minority but whilst I thought it was a great game I didn't think Kerry were actually that good save for two 5-10 minute patches in either half. The tactic of continually switching Donaghy in and out seemed to leave players confused as to when to the high ball etc and when to run it. For me Dublin controlled massive amounts of the game and should have won by 5-6 points. Dublin looked like scoring nearly every time they attacked whereas Kerry seemed to rely more on luck and Dublin mistakes.
Tactically I thought Dublin got it bang on whereas Kerry struggled. The removal of Geaney for O'Se was a strange one. As was the withdrawal of the entire inside forward line when chasing the game late despite lack pace to break into that area. The inability to get players round the midfielders to win breaking ball also hurt Kerry.
On the referee I thought he was very poor, I have no problem with refs who get things wrong when they've only had a split second to look at things but refs who blatantly ignore the rules annoy me. If it's a black card to offence like it was for McMahon then black card don't chicken out because it will spoil the spectacle as ultimately the failure to properly implement the rules will have as big an impact on the match. . That said I still think the game is too big, too fast and too professional for a single amateur referee. Also I'm glad the referees performance didn't deprive the far better side of their victory.
Priveledged to be at game and to come out on the right side of a game I thought we had lost twice.
For what it is worth, thought referee was excellent. He was consistent and that is all teams want.
Kerry for me seem to be whingeing about the last shoulder by Kevin and in real life it looked plum to me. Kerry got away with a more blatant one a few minutes later when Aidan O' Mahoney nailed I think Phlllie to the delight of the Kerry fans. I think the referee was consistently giving the benefit of doubt to the "shoulderer" which is fair enough.
Almost sure also the rule in gaelic football is different from soccer in that the internal part of the white line is the boundary and if the ball goes over that , but not necessarily fully over the external part of the white line it is a goal, sideline or whatever.
Anyway, Mayo couldn't be heading into an AIF in any better position.
2 best teams in the country imo left.
Large amount of Kerry fans cannot and will not accept we (for the moment) have a better team than then. Until they and more importantly their management accept that they are going nowhere for a few years.
I wouldn't castigate the ref for the McManamon shoulder, in real time it's often hard to judge a fair shoulder from an illegal one.
In general I thought Dublin were better at winning the frees though. On contact the Dublin player made sure to go downwards and get the free. A couple of random examples that come to mind were when Fenton was caught by a sideways arm from Darran O'Sullivan and immediately went downwards - hardly the obvious reaction to a side-on impact. John Small got a couple of handy ones too where he was already heading for the ground before the impact.
At the other end I thought the Kerry fellas foolishly tried to stay on their feet after getting pulled back or hit. Within a couple of strides they had turned it over.
It wasn't so much that the ref was in anyway biased, it was just Dublin being cuter at getting the frees.
Quote from: Canalman on August 29, 2016, 09:23:19 AM
Priveledged to be at game and to come out on the right side of a game I thought we had lost twice.
For what it is worth, thought referee was excellent. He was consistent and that is all teams want.
Kerry for me seem to be whingeing about the last shoulder by Kevin and in real life it looked plum to me. Kerry got away with a more blatant one a few minutes later when Aidan O' Mahoney nailed I think Phlllie to the delight of the Kerry fans. I think the referee was consistently giving the benefit of doubt to the "shoulderer" which is fair enough.
Almost sure also the rule in gaelic football is different from soccer in that the internal part of the white line is the boundary and if the ball goes over that , but not necessarily fully over the external part of the white line it is a goal, sideline or whatever.
Anyway, Mayo couldn't be heading into an AIF in any better position.
2 best teams in the country imo left.
Large amount of Kerry fans cannot and will not accept we (for the moment) have a better team than then. Until they and more importantly their management accept that they are going nowhere for a few years.
In fairness I thought the ref did fine, but that missed call on McManamon was a big one. With Sheehan there, you'd have to think that would have levelled it up. Pity, as a draw would have been great.
Kerry, I thought, made some strange substitutions and unless they had injuries, hard to see. Taking off Geaney for O'Se when the game was level was very strange.
A key moment, for me, was half time. Gavin obviously told Cluxton that if Kerry push up, just go long. They were winning midfield largely, and Kerry were so aggressive in their press that any win around the middle would lead to a Dublin chance. Kerry obviously copped that, and backed off Cluxton's kickouts not long into the second half, and that was the main momentum shift in my view.
Quote from: AQMP on August 29, 2016, 10:01:37 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on August 29, 2016, 09:08:13 AM
I might be in the minority but whilst I thought it was a great game I didn't think Kerry were actually that good save for two 5-10 minute patches in either half. The tactic of continually switching Donaghy in and out seemed to leave players confused as to when to the high ball etc and when to run it. For me Dublin controlled massive amounts of the game and should have won by 5-6 points. Dublin looked like scoring nearly every time they attacked whereas Kerry seemed to rely more on luck and Dublin mistakes.
Tactically I thought Dublin got it bang on whereas Kerry struggled. The removal of Geaney for O'Se was a strange one. As was the withdrawal of the entire inside forward line when chasing the game late despite lack pace to break into that area. The inability to get players round the midfielders to win breaking ball also hurt Kerry.
On the referee I thought he was very poor, I have no problem with refs who get things wrong when they've only had a split second to look at things but refs who blatantly ignore the rules annoy me. If it's a black card to offence like it was for McMahon then black card don't chicken out because it will spoil the spectacle as ultimately the failure to properly implement the rules will have as big an impact on the match. . That said I still think the game is too big, too fast and too professional for a single amateur referee. Also I'm glad the referees performance didn't deprive the far better side of their victory.
I agree with this. I thought Dublin were easily the better side. They gave Kerry two goals and still won. I think it was 13-6 in the 2nd half and that was a fair reflection on the balance of play. I though the ref did OK.
I don't agree with the narrative that Dublin 'gave' them two goals. They came when Kerry flipped the pressure switch on, and that forced the mistakes. Cluxton should be more composed at this stage, but Kerry influenced events there, it wasn't a complete fluke.
Quote from: AQMP on August 29, 2016, 10:01:37 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on August 29, 2016, 09:08:13 AM
I might be in the minority but whilst I thought it was a great game I didn't think Kerry were actually that good save for two 5-10 minute patches in either half. The tactic of continually switching Donaghy in and out seemed to leave players confused as to when to the high ball etc and when to run it. For me Dublin controlled massive amounts of the game and should have won by 5-6 points. Dublin looked like scoring nearly every time they attacked whereas Kerry seemed to rely more on luck and Dublin mistakes.
Tactically I thought Dublin got it bang on whereas Kerry struggled. The removal of Geaney for O'Se was a strange one. As was the withdrawal of the entire inside forward line when chasing the game late despite lack pace to break into that area. The inability to get players round the midfielders to win breaking ball also hurt Kerry.
On the referee I thought he was very poor, I have no problem with refs who get things wrong when they've only had a split second to look at things but refs who blatantly ignore the rules annoy me. If it's a black card to offence like it was for McMahon then black card don't chicken out because it will spoil the spectacle as ultimately the failure to properly implement the rules will have as big an impact on the match. . That said I still think the game is too big, too fast and too professional for a single amateur referee. Also I'm glad the referees performance didn't deprive the far better side of their victory.
I agree with this. I thought Dublin were easily the better side. They gave Kerry two goals and still won. I think it was 13-6 in the 2nd half and that was a fair reflection on the balance of play. I though the ref did OK.
Wish folk would stop peddling this manure. They pushed up on Cluxtons kickout for the first, a real ballsy move and forced the error. The interchange between the players to work the goal was first class. The second they put the ball into the mixer and followed it in. Gough gave Dublin a good few handy frees to keep them ticking over. There must have been a 20 min period in the 2nd half when Dublin didn't score a point from play. The body slam on Crowley, with Sheehan on the pitch may very well have levelled the game at 21 all.. Who knows after? For me the game could have went either way. Superb game of football
For me, Mayo have a better spine to them than Kerry @ present. If DOC is fit, McLoughlin , AM and COC play to their potential , they'll be very little in it imo. Hopefully we get another great game
Quote from: Canalman on August 29, 2016, 09:23:19 AM
Priveledged to be at game and to come out on the right side of a game I thought we had lost twice.
For what it is worth, thought referee was excellent. He was consistent and that is all teams want.
Kerry for me seem to be whingeing about the last shoulder by Kevin and in real life it looked plum to me. Kerry got away with a more blatant one a few minutes later when Aidan O' Mahoney nailed I think Phlllie to the delight of the Kerry fans. I think the referee was consistently giving the benefit of doubt to the "shoulderer" which is fair enough.
Almost sure also the rule in gaelic football is different from soccer in that the internal part of the white line is the boundary and if the ball goes over that , but not necessarily fully over the external part of the white line it is a goal, sideline or whatever.
Anyway, Mayo couldn't be heading into an AIF in any better position.
2 best teams in the country imo left.
Large amount of Kerry fans cannot and will not accept we (for the moment) have a better team than then. Until they and more importantly their management accept that they are going nowhere for a few years.
Canalman
Your last sentence is a very silly statement . Are you suggesting the Kerry management should gleefully accept that Dublin are better and lie down ???? Really ??
Quote from: ashman on August 29, 2016, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Canalman on August 29, 2016, 09:23:19 AM
Priveledged to be at game and to come out on the right side of a game I thought we had lost twice.
For what it is worth, thought referee was excellent. He was consistent and that is all teams want.
Kerry for me seem to be whingeing about the last shoulder by Kevin and in real life it looked plum to me. Kerry got away with a more blatant one a few minutes later when Aidan O' Mahoney nailed I think Phlllie to the delight of the Kerry fans. I think the referee was consistently giving the benefit of doubt to the "shoulderer" which is fair enough.
Almost sure also the rule in gaelic football is different from soccer in that the internal part of the white line is the boundary and if the ball goes over that , but not necessarily fully over the external part of the white line it is a goal, sideline or whatever.
Anyway, Mayo couldn't be heading into an AIF in any better position.
2 best teams in the country imo left.
Large amount of Kerry fans cannot and will not accept we (for the moment) have a better team than then. Until they and more importantly their management accept that they are going nowhere for a few years.
Canalman
Your last sentence is a very silly statement . Are you suggesting the Kerry management should gleefully accept that Dublin are better and lie down ???? Really ??
Nope. My point is that Kerry has to go back to the drawing board, introduce new younger players (no shortage of them) , retire some of the older guys, rejig the team and go on from there.
If and this is imo again, they feel that they have been "robbed", "unlucky", "never showed up" yadda yadda in the last 5 big games they have played Dublin and come back again next year with basically the same team/ tactics they imo are doomed. Imo of course.
If Dublin had gone in at half time 7 or 8 points up I think it would have been far more reflective of their dominance yesterday. The competitiveness of the game was completely skewed by that 5 minute spell just before half time. Dublin were easily rthe better side. I can see an argument over the Crowley shoulder charge decision at the end but there is no argument over the result. The scoreline greatly flattered Kerry in all reality.
Quote from: Canalman on August 29, 2016, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: ashman on August 29, 2016, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Canalman on August 29, 2016, 09:23:19 AM
Priveledged to be at game and to come out on the right side of a game I thought we had lost twice.
For what it is worth, thought referee was excellent. He was consistent and that is all teams want.
Kerry for me seem to be whingeing about the last shoulder by Kevin and in real life it looked plum to me. Kerry got away with a more blatant one a few minutes later when Aidan O' Mahoney nailed I think Phlllie to the delight of the Kerry fans. I think the referee was consistently giving the benefit of doubt to the "shoulderer" which is fair enough.
Almost sure also the rule in gaelic football is different from soccer in that the internal part of the white line is the boundary and if the ball goes over that , but not necessarily fully over the external part of the white line it is a goal, sideline or whatever.
Anyway, Mayo couldn't be heading into an AIF in any better position.
2 best teams in the country imo left.
Large amount of Kerry fans cannot and will not accept we (for the moment) have a better team than then. Until they and more importantly their management accept that they are going nowhere for a few years.
Canalman
Your last sentence is a very silly statement . Are you suggesting the Kerry management should gleefully accept that Dublin are better and lie down ???? Really ??
Nope. My point is that Kerry has to go back to the drawing board, introduce new younger players (no shortage of them) , retire some of the older guys, rejig the team and go on from there.
If and this is imo again, they feel that they have been "robbed", "unlucky", "never showed up" yadda yadda in the last 5 big games they have played Dublin and come back again next year with basically the same team/ tactics they imo are doomed. Imo of course.
Yeah. Yerra
Just fantastic to be there with the kids. Complete admiration for both teams. Just goes to show how good a spectacle football is depends entirely on how the coaches and players go about it. I would have been an advocate of 13 aside to open up the play but yesterday made me realise that's not needed - football has gone through an evolution period of negativity but I think we are slowly coming out the other side. Coaches will want their teams to play Dublin football, not Donegal football.
Kerry's ball into the full forward line got cut out time and time again for long spells which was killing them, a combination of great defending and poor kicking which was unusual for Kerry. Dublin also seemed to win a lot of Kerry's long kickouts or got to the break first. Where do Mayo go from here - Barry Moran to full-forward?
Dublin's composure to keep plugging away at the scoreboard was unreal. They did get the crucial break - Crowley was emptied and it was a massive call not to give a free in.
Dublin for Sam, but Kerry's pipeline looks pretty good judging by their minors, haven't seen kick passing like it in a long time, or were Kildare weak?
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
Always find it a bit strange when people try to take out parts of a game when analysing it. Kerry pushed up went for it and got 2-4, you can't say if they hadn't have did that Dublin would have won by more. It's like saying if Kerry had settled quicker Dublin wouldn't have went 4 up early and Kerry would have won.
Canal man
True to a point but there are no guarantees with good minors and to be fair Cork and Tipp Have beaten and lorded Kerry at u21 level over past 6 years or so. It is a different game really.
In regard to yesterday most Kerry folk do not think they were robbed but a few marginal calls went against them near the end . The few I spoke to also felt Dublin would have won the replay .
In regard to tactics Kerry just don't have the legs to engage in a shootout v Dublin . Fitzmaurice has done well all told over his 4 years as there were not many looking for the job in 2012.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 29, 2016, 10:39:46 AM
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
Fitzmaurice is surely gone I'd imagine.
Jack O'Connor to return.
Donaghy, O'Mahoney and O'Se surely gone.
Cooper, Walsh and Sheehan might stay for another year but I wouldn't be surprised if Sheehan was dropped he was that poor yesterday.
I thought O'Donoghue and Maher both looked like guys who were well short of match fitness.
The subs who came on for Kerry once again struggled to make any sort of impact.
O'Brien once again mixed the good with the bad
O'Donoghue looked far from his normal self
BJK kicked one immense point but did nothing else
O'Beaglaoich did ok but had no major influence.
Sheehan was woeful. Gave away a free in front of the posts, had a crazy Garryowenough effort and did nothing.
O'Se did nothing but the logic of taking Geaney off and replacing him with O'Se is a massive puzzler.
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 29, 2016, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 29, 2016, 10:39:46 AM
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
Fitzmaurice is surely gone I'd imagine.
Jack O'Connor to return.
Donaghy, O'Mahoney and O'Se surely gone.
Cooper, Walsh and Sheehan might stay for another year but I wouldn't be surprised if Sheehan was dropped he was that poor yesterday.
I thought O'Donoghue and Maher both looked like guys who were well short of match fitness.
The subs who came on for Kerry once again struggled to make any sort of impact.
O'Brien once again mixed the good with the bad
O'Donoghue looked far from his normal self
BJK kicked one immense point but did nothing else
O'Beaglaoich did ok but had no major influence.
Sheehan was woeful. Gave away a free in front of the posts, had a crazy Garryowenough effort and did nothing.
O'Se did nothing but the logic of taking Geaney off and replacing him with O'Se is a massive puzzler.
Jack won't come back until he has these three minor teams, or maybe two of them, gone through U21. Jack picks his moments.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 29, 2016, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 29, 2016, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 29, 2016, 10:39:46 AM
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
Fitzmaurice is surely gone I'd imagine.
Jack O'Connor to return.
Donaghy, O'Mahoney and O'Se surely gone.
Cooper, Walsh and Sheehan might stay for another year but I wouldn't be surprised if Sheehan was dropped he was that poor yesterday.
I thought O'Donoghue and Maher both looked like guys who were well short of match fitness.
The subs who came on for Kerry once again struggled to make any sort of impact.
O'Brien once again mixed the good with the bad
O'Donoghue looked far from his normal self
BJK kicked one immense point but did nothing else
O'Beaglaoich did ok but had no major influence.
Sheehan was woeful. Gave away a free in front of the posts, had a crazy Garryowenough effort and did nothing.
O'Se did nothing but the logic of taking Geaney off and replacing him with O'Se is a massive puzzler.
Jack won't come back until he has these three minor teams, or maybe two of them, gone through U21. Jack picks his moments.
Or until Mickey Harte retires! ;)
Quote from: Sportacus on August 29, 2016, 10:39:46 AM
Just fantastic to be there with the kids. Complete admiration for both teams. Just goes to show how good a spectacle football is depends entirely on how the coaches and players go about it. I would have been an advocate of 13 aside to open up the play but yesterday made me realise that's not needed - football has gone through an evolution period of negativity but I think we are slowly coming out the other side. Coaches will want their teams to play Dublin football, not Donegal football.
Kerry's ball into the full forward line got cut out time and time again for long spells which was killing them, a combination of great defending and poor kicking which was unusual for Kerry. Dublin also seemed to win a lot of Kerry's long kickouts or got to the break first. Where do Mayo go from here - Barry Moran to full-forward?
Dublin's composure to keep plugging away at the scoreboard was unreal. They did get the crucial break - Crowley was emptied and it was a massive call not to give a free in.
Dublin for Sam, but Kerry's pipeline looks pretty good judging by their minors, haven't seen kick passing like it in a long time, or were Kildare weak?
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
McMahon didn't get a free a few minutes before for the same type of challenge. At least Kev challenged for the ball, as the pundits on the Sunday Game pointed out, O'Mahony made no effort to get the ball. If he didn't give a free for that it was only fair Crowley didn't get one either.
why the hell would fitzmaurice go, he just brought an ancient kerry team to within a couple of points/dodgy referee decisions of beating the 'Best team of all time(c) '
Quote from: rosnarun on August 29, 2016, 12:03:39 PM
why the hell would fitzmaurice go, he just brought an ancient kerry team to within a couple of points/dodgy referee decisions of beating the 'Best team of all time(c) '
He might be sick of it, and he probably knows he needs to replace 4,5 or 6 of that squad, and it's too soon for the great minors. I wouldn't be firing him now, but he might decide it's a long road himself.
;D (http://;d)
Quote from: Gaaggle on August 29, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 29, 2016, 10:39:46 AM
Just fantastic to be there with the kids. Complete admiration for both teams. Just goes to show how good a spectacle football is depends entirely on how the coaches and players go about it. I would have been an advocate of 13 aside to open up the play but yesterday made me realise that's not needed - football has gone through an evolution period of negativity but I think we are slowly coming out the other side. Coaches will want their teams to play Dublin football, not Donegal football.
Kerry's ball into the full forward line got cut out time and time again for long spells which was killing them, a combination of great defending and poor kicking which was unusual for Kerry. Dublin also seemed to win a lot of Kerry's long kickouts or got to the break first. Where do Mayo go from here - Barry Moran to full-forward?
Dublin's composure to keep plugging away at the scoreboard was unreal. They did get the crucial break - Crowley was emptied and it was a massive call not to give a free in.
Dublin for Sam, but Kerry's pipeline looks pretty good judging by their minors, haven't seen kick passing like it in a long time, or were Kildare weak?
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
McMahon didn't get a free a few minutes before for the same type of challenge. At least Kev challenged for the ball, as the pundits on the Sunday Game pointed out, O'Mahony made no effort to get the ball. If he didn't give a free for that it was only fair Crowley didn't get one either.
Could someone post up O'Mahony's challenge please?
The point is not whether either player went for the ball, it is whether or not it was a fair shoulder. McManamon's challenge was clearly a foul. O'Mahony's was either a foul or it wasn't, but it doesn't remotely change the referee being right or wrong on McManamon.
Yellowcard is desperately looking for someone to bite at his posts ;)
Quote from: Maroon Manc on August 29, 2016, 12:09:33 PM
Yellowcard is desperately looking for someone to bite at his posts ;)
Bite at what exactly? I'm not desperately looking for anything, merely giving my opinion which you can agree or disagree with.
Quote from: muppet on August 29, 2016, 12:08:19 PM
;D (http://;d)Quote from: Gaaggle on August 29, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 29, 2016, 10:39:46 AM
Just fantastic to be there with the kids. Complete admiration for both teams. Just goes to show how good a spectacle football is depends entirely on how the coaches and players go about it. I would have been an advocate of 13 aside to open up the play but yesterday made me realise that's not needed - football has gone through an evolution period of negativity but I think we are slowly coming out the other side. Coaches will want their teams to play Dublin football, not Donegal football.
Kerry's ball into the full forward line got cut out time and time again for long spells which was killing them, a combination of great defending and poor kicking which was unusual for Kerry. Dublin also seemed to win a lot of Kerry's long kickouts or got to the break first. Where do Mayo go from here - Barry Moran to full-forward?
Dublin's composure to keep plugging away at the scoreboard was unreal. They did get the crucial break - Crowley was emptied and it was a massive call not to give a free in.
Dublin for Sam, but Kerry's pipeline looks pretty good judging by their minors, haven't seen kick passing like it in a long time, or were Kildare weak?
I didn't pick up why O'Donoghue didn't start - injured or was it horses for courses from Fitzmaurice? Geaney is a great footballer but I thought his movement slowed up in the second half and he went out of it when Kerry needed scores. I was surprised Walsh came off, unless he was busted - he was constantly looking the ball.
I hope Fitzmaurice stays and we see another year or two out of Gooch, he stilled showed his class yesterday but will rue a missed chance in the first half and a shot that dropped short in the second - 'inches'. Donaghy is gone. O'Se possibly. O'Mahony stuck it well although who wouldn't want to play sweeper, running around marking nobody and looking good on the ball!
What a day in Croke Park.
McMahon didn't get a free a few minutes before for the same type of challenge. At least Kev challenged for the ball, as the pundits on the Sunday Game pointed out, O'Mahony made no effort to get the ball. If he didn't give a free for that it was only fair Crowley didn't get one either.
Could someone post up O'Mahony's challenge please?
The point is not whether either player went for the ball, it is whether or not it was a fair shoulder. McManamon's challenge was clearly a foul. O'Mahony's was either a foul or it wasn't, but it doesn't remotely change the referee being right or wrong on McManamon.
you'll find it on the rte player. IMO it was worse than the crowley one as he made no attempt to get the ball. He wasn't even looking at the ball - big dirty shoulder to the chest
Of course it doesn't change the fact that he was wrong on the crowley one but at least he got both wrong. Then there's always the other argument that if Dublin get the free they should have got then the rest of the game plays out differently etc, dublin have a free under the cusack stand instead of kerry attacking and the crowley tackle may never have even happened - we'll never know !
We'll never know how much of an impact Gough had on the match but it certainly appeared that Dublin were on the receiving end of a few decisions. I had to laugh at a Dublin poster earlier on claim Kerry were on receiving end of soft free's.
It was a brilliant tactical move from Kerry to push so many players up on Cluxton's kickouts, must have given Kerry a great lift to see a move they've worked on work out like that. Cluxton had 5 minutes of madness, imagine the criticism any other keeper would have received for 2 huge errors. I thought TSG would have made more of it.
Once again you've got to give the Dubs credit for the way they finish, 3 points down with 9 minutes to go and their response was outstanding;
O'Mahony's challenge was clearly a foul but it was a much more difficult position to score from then where Crowley was fouled.
Whatever about Gough getting calls right or wrong on physical tussles he made a balls up of the two hop balls that were in the game.
Both times a Dublin player who was not the original contesting player caught the ball (this was because the two contesting players were wrestling with each other).
Quote from: Smokin Joe on August 29, 2016, 12:34:37 PM
Whatever about Gough getting calls right or wrong on physical tussles he made a balls up of the two hop balls that were in the game.
Both times a Dublin player who was not the original contesting player caught the ball (this was because the two contesting players were wrestling with each other).
Yes, I saw that alright, but I don't think there's a rule against that. I think the rule is that all other players will be 13m away.
The free count yesterday (according to Twitter) was Dublin conceded 13 and Kerry conceded 22.
If we deduct the soft frees that Kerry got, as claimed above on this thread, the count should really have been around Dublin conceded 9/10 and Kerry conceded 22.
Why is it then that we are not outraged at Kerry's persistent fouling?
As for O'Mahony not going for the ball, please stop using this as an argument. When the ball is loose it is normal and fair to try to shoulder an opponent. You don't have to be reaching for the ball at the time. The requirement is 'shoulder to shoulder' and 'one foot on the ground'.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2016, 02:36:47 PM
I have to get one wrong sometime so it's
Kerry by 2. :o
At least I got the margin right anyway.
Better team overall won.
Mr Gough won't be getting any Christmas cards from Kerry.
They might now appreciate how the Rhus feel about Reilly.
Kerry pushed up so far for O'Sullivan's goal that they left a 2 on 4 at the other end. It must have been a set play gamble and it worked a treat.
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
Could you imagine a Cork referee living and working in Kerry reffing the game yesterday, me neither.
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Suppose you've got to second guess who Dublin will start. Keegan on Connolly, Boyle on Kilkenny, Harrison on Brogan, Higgins on McMenamin, Durcan on Rock. Looking at it yesterday Flynn has to be the Dublin forward most under pressure for his place.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
I haven't heard anybody yet say that it wasn't a foul. It clearly was a frontal shoulder charge and should have been a free kick to kerry. Gough on the whole had a good match though and tried to referee the game with common sense rather than apply the rulebook strictly at times, much in the same way that Pat McEneaney used to. It mightn't please assessors sitting in the stands but it made for a better spectacle in my view. Kerry fans can feel upset over this incident but they shouldn't be upset over the result as Dublin were much the beter side.
As for Gough's perceived bias because of where he works, maybe you have a point I don't know. But the nature of the GAA and Ireland is that you can always find a reason for a perceived bias if you look hard enough. I don't think his performance was in any way blatantly bias in any one direction, he made a few wrong calls but on the whole I thought he refereed the game fairly which is all you can ask.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Yes, definitely. A retrospective ban is in order. Also McManamon for the frontal charge on Crowley.
Listen Coopers was nasty, but very few full backs wouldn't do that, but if we are in the business of men missing all ireland finals it would be best left on the field. Cooper is the best defender in the game at the minute. Reminds me of Mc Menamin underrated and controversial but he would be the first man on your team.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Would need to see it again but my impression was that he meant to knock him over, not necessarily put him into the post. It may have affected O'Sullivan though as he had little impact on the match after that from what I recall. Cooper is a nasty player at times though, I seem to recall him kicking a Mayoman in last years AI semi final and getting away with it.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 29, 2016, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Would need to see it again but my impression was that he meant to knock him over, not necessarily put him into the post. It may have affected O'Sullivan though as he had little impact on the match after that from what I recall. Cooper is a nasty player at times though, I seem to recall him kicking a Mayoman in last years AI semi final and getting away with it.
Just like Donaghy got away with it yesterday after he kicked Cooper?
Quote from: Chimley on August 29, 2016, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Yes, definitely. A retrospective ban is in order. Also McManamon for the frontal charge on Crowley.
And Mahoney for his frontal charge on McMahon? Or is it only Dubs that deserve retrospective bans?
Quote from: yellowcard on August 29, 2016, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Would need to see it again but my impression was that he meant to knock him over, not necessarily put him into the post. It may have affected O'Sullivan though as he had little impact on the match after that from what I recall. Cooper is a nasty player at times though, I seem to recall him kicking a Mayoman in last years AI semi final and getting away with it.
It was DOC iirc.
There is a problem with the big teams getting the important calls from the ref.
Kerry used to be the biggest team and benefited the most from this particular trait. They can hardly complain. Mayo got the big call in the Fermanagh game so Pete McGrath and co can have can have a wry smile if we start whinging about it.
However wry smiles won't fix the problem. And you can't blame any of the teams involved either. It is a refereeing problem.
Quote from: Gaaggle on August 29, 2016, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: Chimley on August 29, 2016, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Yes, definitely. A retrospective ban is in order. Also McManamon for the frontal charge on Crowley.
And Mahoney for his frontal charge on McMahon? Or is it only Dubs that deserve retrospective bans?
Given that O'Mahoney will probably be retired anyway I'm sure he would be worried about possibly getting a retrospective suspension for a challenge that the referee didn't even deem a free kick in real time.
I'd give Cooper the benefit of the doubt there. I'd say he meant to give him a dunt alright, but I don't think he planned on O'Sullivan landing on his back on the pole at the back of the net.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 29, 2016, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: Gaaggle on August 29, 2016, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: Chimley on August 29, 2016, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Yes, definitely. A retrospective ban is in order. Also McManamon for the frontal charge on Crowley.
And Mahoney for his frontal charge on McMahon? Or is it only Dubs that deserve retrospective bans?
Given that O'Mahoney will probably be retired anyway I'm sure he would be worried about possibly getting a retrospective suspension for a challenge that the referee didn't even deem a free kick in real time.
Never said he'd be worried. Just pointing out that if people are calling for Kevin to be punished then it's only fair O'Mahoney is too, whether the punishment affects him or not. Referee didn't deem Kevs challenge to be free either did he?
Quote from: muppet on August 29, 2016, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 29, 2016, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Anyone else think Cooper intentionally tried to put Darren O'S deliberately into the post.
Thought he clearly look up and then shoved him
Would need to see it again but my impression was that he meant to knock him over, not necessarily put him into the post. It may have affected O'Sullivan though as he had little impact on the match after that from what I recall. Cooper is a nasty player at times though, I seem to recall him kicking a Mayoman in last years AI semi final and getting away with it.
It was DOC iirc.
There is a problem with the big teams getting the important calls from the ref.
Kerry used to be the biggest team and benefited the most from this particular trait. They can hardly complain. Mayo got the big call in the Fermanagh game so Pete McGrath and co can have can have a wry smile if we start whinging about it.
However wry smiles won't fix the problem. And you can't blame any of the teams involved either. It is a refereeing problem.
It's a home team problem. You'll always get a referee that will favour the home team.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 29, 2016, 02:10:43 PM
I'd give Cooper the benefit of the doubt there. I'd say he meant to give him a dunt alright, but I don't think he planned on O'Sullivan landing on his back on the pole at the back of the net.
No but could you imagine if he was from Tyrone...
Last year a Tyrone player made a late enough tackle on a Kerry forward no worse than any of the 3 or 4 mentioned here. and one albeit an eejit of a poster went as far as to claim Karma when he was badly injured himself a few weeks later...
When I watched yesterdays match which was thrilling, I think of how a referring decision ie Mc Namees black card decided last years semi final as well. How many black cards would have been issued yesterday if the thing was being done consistently?
Its a remarkable aspect in the GAA ... The referees graduate towards the favourites always have done and always will do club and county.
Quote from: rrhf on August 29, 2016, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 29, 2016, 02:10:43 PM
I'd give Cooper the benefit of the doubt there. I'd say he meant to give him a dunt alright, but I don't think he planned on O'Sullivan landing on his back on the pole at the back of the net.
No but could you imagine if he was from Tyrone...
Last year a Tyrone player made a late enough tackle on a Kerry forward no worse than any of the 3 or 4 mentioned here. and one albeit an eejit of a poster went as far as to claim Karma when he was badly injured himself a few weeks later...
When I watched yesterdays match which was thrilling, I think of how a referring decision ie Mc Namees black card decided last years semi final as well. How many black cards would have been issued yesterday if the thing was being done consistently?
Its a remarkable aspect in the GAA ... The referees graduate towards the favourites always have done and always will do club and county.
Imagine a world where we didn't have to imagine it was all about Tyrone........... :D
Tyrone lads and their imaginations. ;D
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
Not to mention the dirty looks you would be getting when you'd be havin a pint in The George.
Quote from: rrhf on August 29, 2016, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 29, 2016, 02:10:43 PM
I'd give Cooper the benefit of the doubt there. I'd say he meant to give him a dunt alright, but I don't think he planned on O'Sullivan landing on his back on the pole at the back of the net.
No but could you imagine if he was from Tyrone...
Last year a Tyrone player made a late enough tackle on a Kerry forward no worse than any of the 3 or 4 mentioned here. and one albeit an eejit of a poster went as far as to claim Karma when he was badly injured himself a few weeks later...
When I watched yesterdays match which was thrilling, I think of how a referring decision ie Mc Namees black card decided last years semi final as well. How many black cards would have been issued yesterday if the thing was being done consistently?
Its a remarkable aspect in the GAA ... The referees graduate towards the favourites always have done and always will do club and county.
That is not a GAA phenomenon. That happens in most, if not all sports, across the world. There are constant snipes in the NBA about it being easier to get fouls called for you if you are a superstar player or a big team. In the NFL, a similar story. Soccer, Ditto. It seems to be a subconscious thing for a referee to award close calls to the 'better' team. Perhaps it's because they are predisposed, subconsciously, to thinking that the 'weaker' team couldn't beat the stronger one, so they see fouls clearer one way or the other.
Quote from: Seamus on August 29, 2016, 05:17:49 AM
Congrats to the Dubs, deserving winners just about, can't wait till we meet again
There will be many more classic games between Dublin and Kerry and you can be sure that Kerry will have many good days against the Dubs. That's the way it's always been.
Back to yesterday's match. I'm really proud of this Dublin team. Their never-say-die mentality is incredible. They remind me of Sean Boylan's great Meath teams who would never concede defeat.
A word of praise for the referee. His light touch refereeing helped to make the game so enjoyable. Admittedly there were times during the game when I was screaming at him because of infringements which he chose to ignore. But taken over the whole seventy five minutes his performance was even-handed.
Well done Kerry, you weren't far off. And to the Dubs, let's have more of the same in the final.
I'm amazed at some of the nonsense being spouted here about the ref. I only saw the highlights on the Sunday game last night but they addressed some of the more contentious decisions and showed them to be correct. McManamon's shoulder should have been a free but it was only a fraction late and there appeared to be a Dublin player partially blocking the ref's view of that so I think he gets a pass there. Hurling referee's miss or ignore far more fouls and rarely get criticised for it, especially if the game was good, whereas football referees, who have far more decisions to make, get slaughtered if they get any few wrong.
Mayo v Kerry in Limerick and yesterday's game had an intensity about them that we want in football and when it's there makes it the best game in the world yet both the referee's got huge criticism whereas I think both did very well. The shoulder in hurling is interpreted very liberally it should be in football too, if we want the game to be a contact sport.
You could well imagine David Gough reading some of the online commentary and thinking to himself, feck this, to please these moaning gits I'm just going to blow for everything from now on and the already increasingly rare sight of a physically intense game of football will become all the rarer.
Au contraire, I think that his refusal to use black cards actually improves the game, Mc Eneaney was widely regarded as the best ref of his era. He used his own rules as well.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrCQwnBWcAEqoDB.jpg)
You gotta love the Kerry papers!!!!
Quote from: Declan on August 29, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrCQwnBWcAEqoDB.jpg)
You gotta love the Kerry papers!!!!
Ha! Only Kevin Mc scored higher than a Kerry player who played in the same position.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 29, 2016, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: Declan on August 29, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrCQwnBWcAEqoDB.jpg)
You gotta love the Kerry papers!!!!
Ha! Only Kevin Mc scored higher than a Kerry player who played in the same position.
How did Kerry manage to lose!?
That is a joke.
Kerry backs were 7 points better than the Dubs,
Kerry midfield was 3 points better
Kerry forwards were 1 points better.
This wasn't Danny Healy-Rae's analysis by any chance?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/danny-healy-rae-the-facts-are-therewe-had-noahs-ark-750315.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/danny-healy-rae-the-facts-are-therewe-had-noahs-ark-750315.html)
you can have all the anaylising but the ref gifted the game to dublin no ifs and buts about it
No matter what calls went in the game ( Ref should fired out at least 3 black cards) hows that compare to the black cards in the Tyrone V Donegal Game, each ref seems to make up the f**king rules as he goes along, either enforce the black card at all times or do away with it, personally i think it show be enforced at all times (there were 5 black cards in a Derry championship game last week).
whether the ref was good or not he chickened out bigtime on awarding Kerry a free to level the game with the illegal shoulder hit, it was so obvious a free, Dublin would have got it had been then behind at that stage. Appointing a man who works in Dublin is strange. used to be ref in these games had to be a neutral province ref, cant understand why that changed.
Dublin by far the better team but a replay probably been a fair result, could Galvin not get somebody else to be the teams waterc carriers as Eric Cantona would call them instead of 2 scoring forwards like Flynn and kilkenny?
Quote from: Zulu on August 29, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
I'm amazed at some of the nonsense being spouted here about the ref. I only saw the highlights on the Sunday game last night but they addressed some of the more contentious decisions and showed them to be correct. McManamon's shoulder should have been a free but it was only a fraction late and there appeared to be a Dublin player partially blocking the ref's view of that so I think he gets a pass there. Hurling referee's miss or ignore far more fouls and rarely get criticised for it, especially if the game was good, whereas football referees, who have far more decisions to make, get slaughtered if they get any few wrong.
Mayo v Kerry in Limerick and yesterday's game had an intensity about them that we want in football and when it's there makes it the best game in the world yet both the referee's got huge criticism whereas I think both did very well. The shoulder in hurling is interpreted very liberally it should be in football too, if we want the game to be a contact sport.
You could well imagine David Gough reading some of the online commentary and thinking to himself, feck this, to please these moaning gits I'm just going to blow for everything from now on and the already increasingly rare sight of a physically intense game of football will become all the rarer.
There was a couple of very dubious 45's that Dublin went in Dublin's favour that were not covered and still didn't think either of those late free's awarded to Dublin should have been given. They showed Murphy touching the ball on the ground, that was hardly conclusive and I'm sure Gough had blown prior to Murphy trying to make the tackle. A few of us watched the game and none of us would have much time for Kerry but were all in agreement the Dubs were appeared to be 4 or 5 soft free's.
They were the make calls for ""the Goal"" that he wasn't sure had crossed the line IMPO
The ref made a few bad calls but on balance, these didn't result in the best team losing.
I was very impressed with the way Dublin dug in after going 3 down in the second half. That was the point when being all ireland champions and having cruised through their games to date might have meant they weren't giving 110% but they managed to pull it out and look set to retain Sam for the first time in a decade. That said, I don't think Mayo will roll over for them, it'll be a close run thing
https://twitter.com/Taypayshea/status/770205908936826881
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrBR51QWEAAv4Z5.jpg)
Surprised not much made of the 2 45s within a minute. Looked two bad decisions against Kerry. 2 point swing at key time. Paul Murphy shot blocked , hit post. McMenamon screams house down and ref gives him a dubious 45 overruling umpires. Rock slots the kick. Dubs may still have won , who knows.
Quote from: LilySavage on August 29, 2016, 08:43:23 PM
Surprised not much made of the 2 45s within a minute. Looked two bad decisions against Kerry. 2 point swing at key time. Paul Murphy shot blocked , hit post. McMenamon screams house down and ref gives him a dubious 45 overruling umpires. Rock slots the kick. Dubs may still have won , who knows.
Here's a few decisions explained in this clip
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0829/812774-dublin-kerry-black-card-bernard-flynn-david-gough/
Gough has really established himself as the best IC ref by a large margin this season. Excellent ref.
sometimes teams benefit from ref's decisions, sometimes they don't! Kerry got the rub of the green from decisions in 2014 v Mayo in Limerick and yesterday they didn't! What comes around goes around I guess! Well done both teams for a terrific match and Mayo have it all to all but I believe they will!
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
He teaches in the Templeogue area and has coached in St Jude's GAA club.
Quote from: SCFC on August 29, 2016, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
He teaches in the Templeogue area and has coached in St Jude's GAA club.
Shouldn't be appointed to Dublin games in that case.
Quote from: Zulu on August 29, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
I'm amazed at some of the nonsense being spouted here about the ref. I only saw the highlights on the Sunday game last night but they addressed some of the more contentious decisions and showed them to be correct. McManamon's shoulder should have been a free but it was only a fraction late and there appeared to be a Dublin player partially blocking the ref's view of that so I think he gets a pass there. Hurling referee's miss or ignore far more fouls and rarely get criticised for it, especially if the game was good, whereas football referees, who have far more decisions to make, get slaughtered if they get any few wrong.
Mayo v Kerry in Limerick and yesterday's game had an intensity about them that we want in football and when it's there makes it the best game in the world yet both the referee's got huge criticism whereas I think both did very well. The shoulder in hurling is interpreted very liberally it should be in football too, if we want the game to be a contact sport.
You could well imagine David Gough reading some of the online commentary and thinking to himself, feck this, to please these moaning gits I'm just going to blow for everything from now on and the already increasingly rare sight of a physically intense game of football will become all the rarer.
Maybe if you had of watched the game instead of highlights you'd be in a better position to comment.
Quote from: muppet on August 29, 2016, 06:06:28 PM
That is a joke.
Kerry backs were 7 points better than the Dubs,
Kerry midfield was 3 points better
Kerry forwards were 1 points better.
[/url]
Must have been a big difference in the rating of the subs!
Quote from: never kickt a ball on August 29, 2016, 11:11:37 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 29, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
I'm amazed at some of the nonsense being spouted here about the ref. I only saw the highlights on the Sunday game last night but they addressed some of the more contentious decisions and showed them to be correct. McManamon's shoulder should have been a free but it was only a fraction late and there appeared to be a Dublin player partially blocking the ref's view of that so I think he gets a pass there. Hurling referee's miss or ignore far more fouls and rarely get criticised for it, especially if the game was good, whereas football referees, who have far more decisions to make, get slaughtered if they get any few wrong.
Mayo v Kerry in Limerick and yesterday's game had an intensity about them that we want in football and when it's there makes it the best game in the world yet both the referee's got huge criticism whereas I think both did very well. The shoulder in hurling is interpreted very liberally it should be in football too, if we want the game to be a contact sport.
You could well imagine David Gough reading some of the online commentary and thinking to himself, feck this, to please these moaning gits I'm just going to blow for everything from now on and the already increasingly rare sight of a physically intense game of football will become all the rarer.
Maybe if you had of watched the game instead of highlights you'd be in a better position to comment.
Care to elaborate on what I missed so? When I read here and other forums it seemed Gough had a terrible game yet many others said he was excellent and the Sunday Game showed that some of the decisions he was getting hammered for were correct. So yeah, a fair bit of nonsense being thrown about.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 29, 2016, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: Declan on August 29, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrCQwnBWcAEqoDB.jpg)
You gotta love the Kerry papers!!!!
Ha! Only Kevin Mc scored higher than a Kerry player who played in the same position.
I'm sure our lads would much prefer to have got higher ratings in a newspaper than to be through to an All Ireland final..... ::)
Some amount of biased journalists out there selectively pointing out the injustices to Kerry on Sunday.............. ignoring of course the ones that went against Dublin.
Last Kerry point for example was scored after 10 steps ( I counted them last night I' m afraid) and AOM dropping of Philly minutes before the Kev Mc's shoulder all but ignored. Two very soft frees given to Kerry in front of Hill 16 before half time also all forgotten about in the wailing about a 45 that was given.
Oh did I forget the goal they got that may or may not have been over the line. The journos would have had a fit if it was Dublin got the decision.
Quote from: skeog on August 29, 2016, 07:09:36 PM
you can have all the anaylising but the ref gifted the game to dublin no ifs and buts about it
That's just nonsense. The Kev Mac shoulder looked fine in real time, and he'd let go O'Mahony doing similar to McMahon minutes earlier.
The ref called frees off the ball for both teams - for Darren O'Sullivan for Kerry and for Brogan for the Dubs. Twice he was clearly fouled and correctly called late on.
Someone mentioned Fenton got a very soft free late on. But the foul was on the Dub who had just given the ball to Fenton. Darren O'Sullivan fouled him and ref called it back when Fenton got clogged up. Just like Gough did a couple of times earlier for both teams. Looked to me that it was the second umpire that signalled to the ref to reverse the KevMac 45 decision. Either way it was the right call.
The Kerry 2nd goal was very borderline. With the Dublin players in the way, doubt very much the umpire could be sure that 100% of the ball was over the line. McCarthy got blown up extremely harshly for overcarrying in front of the goals at the end of the first half. And O'Brien's last point with his 10 steps was the clearest overcarrying in the game - let go at a really crucial stage.
All swings and roundabouts.
Quote from: Zulu on August 29, 2016, 11:51:11 PM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on August 29, 2016, 11:11:37 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 29, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
I'm amazed at some of the nonsense being spouted here about the ref. I only saw the highlights on the Sunday game last night but they addressed some of the more contentious decisions and showed them to be correct. McManamon's shoulder should have been a free but it was only a fraction late and there appeared to be a Dublin player partially blocking the ref's view of that so I think he gets a pass there. Hurling referee's miss or ignore far more fouls and rarely get criticised for it, especially if the game was good, whereas football referees, who have far more decisions to make, get slaughtered if they get any few wrong.
Mayo v Kerry in Limerick and yesterday's game had an intensity about them that we want in football and when it's there makes it the best game in the world yet both the referee's got huge criticism whereas I think both did very well. The shoulder in hurling is interpreted very liberally it should be in football too, if we want the game to be a contact sport.
You could well imagine David Gough reading some of the online commentary and thinking to himself, feck this, to please these moaning gits I'm just going to blow for everything from now on and the already increasingly rare sight of a physically intense game of football will become all the rarer.
Maybe if you had of watched the game instead of highlights you'd be in a better position to comment.
Care to elaborate on what I missed so? When I read here and other forums it seemed Gough had a terrible game yet many others said he was excellent and the Sunday Game showed that some of the decisions he was getting hammered for were correct. So yeah, a fair bit of nonsense being thrown about.
I know I get accused of being Pro Dublin a lot but I thought the ref was very good and allowed the game to be physical which we all want. He was consistent and the only think I would fault him for was not black carding McMahon for abusing the umpire and the free he awarded Kerry for over carrying by Mccarthy which looked extremely harsh. The 45s I don't think were his decisions alone.
Watching the flight of the ball in real-time, and his instantaneous reaction, I'd have to say Gough got the Kev Mac 45 decision right.
Overall I thought it was a cracking game. I thought Geaney and Moran were superb for Kerry.
Very glad the Dublin implosion and concession of 2-4 happened at the end of the first half rather than at the beginning of the 2nd.
I think Kerry will mostly regret the 3 unforced turnovers in the last few minutes - Gooch's kick into Cluxton's hands, Moran handpassing the ball over the sideline and O'Donoghue mis-solo which Fitzsimons grabbed ("unforced" the wrong word, as there was always some pressure, but probably not enough to justify the error").
Some amazing points towards the end by JOD, Keane, Kev Mac and Connolly. The sheer effort by both teams was superb, but in particular Dublin. Summed up by the last point, when Kev Mac had made a lung busting run and it ended with Connolly - but Kev continued his run off the ball towards the corner, to ensure Connolly only had one man with him instead of two which allowed him to get the shot away.
Allowing myself one moment of unseemly gloating, I did enjoy how badly Bryan Sheehan played when he came on (and surprised how big around the midrift and arse he looked).
Quote
I know I get accused of being Pro Dublin a lot but I thought the ref was very good
Good man Dinny ;) ;)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 30, 2016, 09:33:23 AM
I know I get accused of being Pro Dublin a lot but I thought the ref was very good and allowed the game to be physical which we all want. He was consistent and the only think I would fault him for was not black carding McMahon for abusing the umpire and the free he awarded Kerry for over carrying by Mccarthy which looked extremely harsh. The 45s I don't think were his decisions alone.
As someone who is broadly in favour of the black card - but I think commentators and fans call for it far too often, I thought Gough got it right. There were 2 Kerry fouls that a lot of Dubs are calling for black and that similar had gotten black in other games, but for me Gough was right - he has to be sure that the defender's intention was to pull the player to the ground and not to go for the ball. The only obvious was one Costello which was 100% correct call (albeit meaningless given it was the 75th minute)
The refs seemed to have decided among themselves that abuse to officials is a yellow. Probably because there's so much of it still ongoing. Has there been any instance in championship games this year of a black card for what Philly did? Or maybe it depends on what exactly is said. Refs also seem quicker to give a yellow for abuse to a linesman/umpire than for abuse they get themselves.
Quote from: Declan on August 30, 2016, 09:44:20 AM
Quote
I know I get accused of being Pro Dublin a lot but I thought the ref was very good
Good man Dinny ;) ;)
All we ask Dinny is that occasionally you try in reign in your unbridled enthusiasm for Dublin
Quote from: Hound on August 30, 2016, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 30, 2016, 09:33:23 AM
I know I get accused of being Pro Dublin a lot but I thought the ref was very good and allowed the game to be physical which we all want. He was consistent and the only think I would fault him for was not black carding McMahon for abusing the umpire and the free he awarded Kerry for over carrying by Mccarthy which looked extremely harsh. The 45s I don't think were his decisions alone.
As someone who is broadly in favour of the black card - but I think commentators and fans call for it far too often, I thought Gough got it right. There were 2 Kerry fouls that a lot of Dubs are calling for black and that similar had gotten black in other games, but for me Gough was right - he has to be sure that the defender's intention was to pull the player to the ground and not to go for the ball. The only obvious was one Costello which was 100% correct call (albeit meaningless given it was the 75th minute)
The refs seemed to have decided among themselves that abuse to officials is a yellow. Probably because there's so much of it still ongoing. Has there been any instance in championship games this year of a black card for what Philly did? Or maybe it depends on what exactly is said. Refs also seem quicker to give a yellow for abuse to a linesman/umpire than for abuse they get themselves.
I don't recall an incident like McMahon's in any other game though but look considering the occasion the controversy you are probably right and rthe ref was close enough to hear what he said so common sense was probably applied. But for optics it looked terrible and not something anyone wants see.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 30, 2016, 09:35:28 AM
Watching the flight of the ball in real-time, and his instantaneous reaction, I'd have to say Gough got the Kev Mac 45 decision right.
I was right in line with McMenamon when he punched the ball and it definitely came off the Kerry defender.
Gooch's shot that dropped short in Cluxton's hands was a big moment. A point there and it would have been tough for Dublin to come back. I would have taken off Gooch before Geaney at the end as well. Geaney was the best forward on the pitch for Kerry yesterday. When the dubs went 3 down I thought they would need a goal, but they kept their heads and reeled Kerry in.
Listened to second captains podcast last night and Michael Quirke pointed out that over the last four Dublin v Kerry games if you add the scores by each side in the last 10 minutes of each game the dubs have outscored Kerry by 4-10 to 0-4. Crazy difference and shows the huge asset the dubs bench has been.
Quote from: heffo on August 30, 2016, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: Declan on August 30, 2016, 09:44:20 AM
Quote
I know I get accused of being Pro Dublin a lot but I thought the ref was very good
Good man Dinny ;) ;)
All we ask Dinny is that occasionally you try in reign in your unbridled enthusiasm for Dublin
I just can't help.myself I even bought Dinny Jnr a Bearno duvet set.
I think Gough is one of the top 3 refs in the country at the moment and has had a good year in the main and was rewarded for his good work getting the biggest game to date. With him living and working in Dublin though, it probably was a bad decision to give him this semi final.
He certainly seem to change his style of referring to some extent with him prepared to let a lot of things go with the view to let the game flow and let the two best teams at each other which I suppose worked.
He seemed determined not to give black cards and you would wonder if all the media talk about black cards not working lately led to an instruction to him from the refs committee to not spoil the game by giving out any non clear black cards. If Philly McMahon had of went down holding his face after that tackle then I wonder would the ref have given a yellow and a free?
Interesting reading Jim McGuinness's take on it and how he said Kerry set the trap for Cluxton to kick it out short.
I watched it again last night and you can see Geaney leaving the corner back free for the short one but then he runs towards him to intercept the pass. If Cluxton had of kicked it very long then Dublin had a few forwards not being marked as Kerry defenders had pushed up.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-dubs-revel-in-the-pleasure-of-a-rare-and-pivotal-contest-1.2772217
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/dr-ed-coughlan-either-get-with-the-times-like-dublin-or-get-left-behind-418423.html
Interesting piece .
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 10:18:49 AM
With him living and working in Dublin though, it probably was a bad decision to give him this semi final.
The living and working in Dublin isn't a genuine complaint is it?
If Seamie O'Shea misses a glorious opportunity to win the All Ireland in 3 weeks, are people going to say - "What was Rochford doing picking a lad who lives and works in Dublin to play against the Dubs?".
Gough, being a GAA person in Meath, would most likely have grown up hating the Dubs!
But as an adult "professional" ref, it's ridiculous to suggest he would be biased based on supporting Dublin's rival (back then anyway) or based on where he now might live.
Yeah very interesting article and explains why the richer counties are pulling away from the others as they are becoming more and more professional.
Athletic players can only do so much but it's when you take talented footballers and make them more athletic is when you end up with a team like Dublin.
Brolly harps on recently about how Dublin are just allowed to play enjoyable attacking football and players allowed to express themselves which is true but there is so much more behind the scenes. High levels of fitness, strength & conditioning, having an excellent subs bench to get you over the line are all important factors now that are making Dublin very hard to beat.
3 points downs with 10 mins to go they calmly played like the did all game and trusted themselves to create the chances and kick the scores. Years ago the old Dublin teams would have crumbled under the pressure but with all the sports science experience they have sampled now they are made of sterner stuff.
Hound, as someone else asked, would you have been happy with a Cork ref working and living in Killarney, especially when he awarded that second goal and booked McMahon.
https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Quote from: ashman on August 30, 2016, 10:28:42 AM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/dr-ed-coughlan-either-get-with-the-times-like-dublin-or-get-left-behind-418423.html
Interesting piece .
So can we expect the new Leitrim manager to simply implement a load of sports science stuff and win Connacht next year?
Maybe the Bush Hotel might find half a million € to employ all these experts?
Maybe we can continue to keep our GAA heads buried in sand and expect 30,000 to compete with 1,300,000+
Maybe we can limit the AI series to the 4 Provincial Champions and 4 highest NFL teams and dump the rest to fcuk out of the way.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 30, 2016, 11:23:34 AM
Quote from: ashman on August 30, 2016, 10:28:42 AM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/dr-ed-coughlan-either-get-with-the-times-like-dublin-or-get-left-behind-418423.html
Interesting piece .
So can we expect the new Leitrim manager to simply implement a load of sports science stuff and win Connacht next year?
Maybe the Bush Hotel might find half a million € to employ all these experts?
Maybe we can continue to keep our GAA heads buried in sand and expect 30,000 to compete with 1,300,000+
Maybe we can limit the AI series to the 4 Provincial Champions and 4 highest NFL teams and dump the rest to fcuk out of the way.
That's not what he's saying... he's saying it takes the right person to be able to use all these things to a teams advantage to help them perform better on the pitch. Dublin have always had these advantages but Gavin is the one who has utilised them the best.
It's not like plenty of other teams don't have all the same luxuries either!
You don't think Leitrim have Physios/S&C coaching or a fitness trainer?
In every county now you are tripping over lads with sports science qualifications.
They should be involved in a centralised, GAA-specific, 'train-the-trainer' programme.
Whatever about financial resources, it should be possible to develop a strong S&C knowledge base within each county and reduce the reliance on spoofers getting paid over the odds for copied & pasted rugby programmes.
Lot of ignorance of our games on this site, looks to me that not many here played at a high level. A lot of crap talk.
Sad to see so many people going on and on about some of the decisions made again , like last year, its a common theme when Dublin play, people hate to see them win. The Ref did good, let the game flow as much as he could, got some calls wrong from both teams but overall very positive. People over analyse incidents driven by clickbait sites like Balls.ie and Joe.ie, slowing it down to the millisecond and post them up dozens of time to stir it. Championship is tough, sh!t happens, calls go for you, calls go against you.
Fair play for both teams on Sunday, both gave it everything and the greatest footballing side of all time came out the better. Total football by the Dubs. Onto Mayo who could spring and upset if things go right for them.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 30, 2016, 01:24:39 PM
Lot of ignorance of our games on this site, looks to me that not many here played at a high level. A lot of crap talk.
Sad to see so many people going on and on about some of the decisions made again , like last year, its a common theme when Dublin play, people hate to see them win. The Ref did good, let the game flow as much as he could, got some calls wrong from both teams but overall very positive. People over analyse incidents driven by clickbait sites like Balls.ie and Joe.ie, slowing it down to the millisecond and post them up dozens of time to stir it. Championship is tough, sh!t happens, calls go for you, calls go against you.
Fair play for both teams on Sunday, both gave it everything and the greatest footballing side of all time came out the better. Total football by the Dubs. Onto Mayo who could spring and upset if things go right for them.
Leave Indiana out of this.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 11:11:28 AM
Yeah very interesting article and explains why the richer counties are pulling away from the others as they are becoming more and more professional.
Athletic players can only do so much but it's when you take talented footballers and make them more athletic is when you end up with a team like Dublin.
Brolly harps on recently about how Dublin are just allowed to play enjoyable attacking football and players allowed to express themselves which is true but there is so much more behind the scenes. High levels of fitness, strength & conditioning, having an excellent subs bench to get you over the line are all important factors now that are making Dublin very hard to beat.
3 points downs with 10 mins to go they calmly played like the did all game and trusted themselves to create the chances and kick the scores. Years ago the old Dublin teams would have crumbled under the pressure but with all the sports science experience they have sampled now they are made of sterner stuff.
Hound, as someone else asked, would you have been happy with a Cork ref working and living in Killarney, especially when he awarded that second goal and booked McMahon.
https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
[/b]
What a joke of a twitter post. 1998. Stop sending refs to Dublin to work will you please. Thanks.
Your other statement is also ignorant and not factual. These Dublin players are naturally gifted footballers first, then naturally gift athletes. 5 of the players fathers played for Dublin, that's were is must have come from, Duirmuids father and Uncle were hurlers from Kilkenny etc, Duirmud Connolly could kick ball accurately over the bar off both feet when he was 8 years old. As O Rourke said, you cant train the Donkey to win the derby.
This Dublin team is the greatest of all time, get over it.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 30, 2016, 01:24:39 PM
Lot of ignorance of our games on this site, looks to me that not many here played at a high level. A lot of crap talk.
Sad to see so many people going on and on about some of the decisions made again , like last year, its a common theme when Dublin play, people hate to see them win. The Ref did good, let the game flow as much as he could, got some calls wrong from both teams but overall very positive. People over analyse incidents driven by clickbait sites like Balls.ie and Joe.ie, slowing it down to the millisecond and post them up dozens of time to stir it. Championship is tough, sh!t happens, calls go for you, calls go against you.
Fair play for both teams on Sunday, both gave it everything and the greatest footballing side of all time came out the better. Total football by the Dubs. Onto Mayo who could spring and upset if things go right for them.
I've nothing but admiration for the way both counties play the game and on Sunday they served up a great battle. Gough did get a lot more right than wrong and let the game go for the most part however, imo Kerry had to work a lot harder for frees in the 2nd half, esp in the scoring zone
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 30, 2016, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 11:11:28 AM
Yeah very interesting article and explains why the richer counties are pulling away from the others as they are becoming more and more professional.
Athletic players can only do so much but it's when you take talented footballers and make them more athletic is when you end up with a team like Dublin.
Brolly harps on recently about how Dublin are just allowed to play enjoyable attacking football and players allowed to express themselves which is true but there is so much more behind the scenes. High levels of fitness, strength & conditioning, having an excellent subs bench to get you over the line are all important factors now that are making Dublin very hard to beat.
3 points downs with 10 mins to go they calmly played like the did all game and trusted themselves to create the chances and kick the scores. Years ago the old Dublin teams would have crumbled under the pressure but with all the sports science experience they have sampled now they are made of sterner stuff.
Hound, as someone else asked, would you have been happy with a Cork ref working and living in Killarney, especially when he awarded that second goal and booked McMahon.
https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
[/b]
What a joke of a twitter post. 1998. Stop sending refs to Dublin to work will you please. Thanks.
Your other statement is also ignorant and not factual. These Dublin players are naturally gifted footballers first, then naturally gift athletes. 5 of the players fathers played for Dublin, that's were is must have come from, Duirmuids father and Uncle were hurlers from Kilkenny etc, Duirmud Connolly could kick ball accurately over the bar off both feet when he was 8 years old. As O Rourke said, you cant train the Donkey to win the derby.
This Dublin team is the greatest of all time, get over it.
Not for me they are not...........at least not yet. They are definitely the best i've seen though as I don't remember the Kerry team that won 8 AI titles in 12 seasons. Though it was a different era, I think Dublin have a bit to go yet before they can be considered better than that side. That said, but for a smash and grab raid by Donegal in 2014 we are looking at a probable 4 in a row side here. These things sometimes only become clearer in hindsight, but that win for Donegal was the only blip for this Dublin side since Gavin took charge. But for that defeat he would be going for 4 in a row titles in both League and Championship. It also was their last defeat in league or championship. A phenomenal record of consistency.
Mayo must be loving all this talk.
That's what I said you twit. "when you take talented footballers and make them more athletic".
I agree Gough did well on Sunday and let the game flow which made it a good spectacle.
Of course he missed a few things and got some calls wrong but what I'm saying is the GAA should know better to put someone in that position who is involved with a club in Dublin and isn't it typical then that the man who caused the foul he probably knows from the same club. It just gives the Kerry team and fans something to complain about.
Who was the ref last year between the two teams?
If Gough is compromised what's 'Dublin Joe' McQuillan's excuse?
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 30, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
Mayo must be loving all this talk.
I think the days of the yeerraism is gone, a bit of talk on a GAA forum wont affect either players attitude or mental preparation.
Kerry media mafia should remember that.
Fuzzman, I get what your saying but to me they are, the modern era is different from the drinkers and smokers back in the 70s and 80s. To beat the professionals from Kerry 5 or 6 times in the last few years and everyone else like Mayo who are just as fit and conditioned as the Dubs etc.
Anyway, back to back in the ultimate, if Dublin do it I can rest easy for a few years.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 30, 2016, 02:12:40 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 30, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
Mayo must be loving all this talk.
I think the days of the yeerraism is gone, a bit of talk on a GAA forum wont affect either players attitude or mental preparation.
Kerry media mafia should remember that.
Fuzzman, I get what your saying but to me they are, the modern era is different from the drinkers and smokers back in the 70s and 80s. To beat the professionals from Kerry 5 or 6 times in the last few years and everyone else like Mayo who are just as fit and conditioned as the Dubs etc.
Anyway, back to back in the ultimate, if Dublin do it I can rest easy for a few years.
This sort of talk is not confined to this forum though, it's out there. And if you think players don't pick up on that, then you've never been in a dressing room in your life.
The Mayo lads are definitely indulging in a bit of reverse reverse psychology, if you ask me.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 30, 2016, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 11:11:28 AM
Yeah very interesting article and explains why the richer counties are pulling away from the others as they are becoming more and more professional.
Athletic players can only do so much but it's when you take talented footballers and make them more athletic is when you end up with a team like Dublin.
Brolly harps on recently about how Dublin are just allowed to play enjoyable attacking football and players allowed to express themselves which is true but there is so much more behind the scenes. High levels of fitness, strength & conditioning, having an excellent subs bench to get you over the line are all important factors now that are making Dublin very hard to beat.
3 points downs with 10 mins to go they calmly played like the did all game and trusted themselves to create the chances and kick the scores. Years ago the old Dublin teams would have crumbled under the pressure but with all the sports science experience they have sampled now they are made of sterner stuff.
Hound, as someone else asked, would you have been happy with a Cork ref working and living in Killarney, especially when he awarded that second goal and booked McMahon.
https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/IanGalvinNYGAA/status/770243752711553024/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
[/b]
What a joke of a twitter post. 1998. Stop sending refs to Dublin to work will you please. Thanks.
Your other statement is also ignorant and not factual. These Dublin players are naturally gifted footballers first, then naturally gift athletes. 5 of the players fathers played for Dublin, that's were is must have come from, Duirmuids father and Uncle were hurlers from Kilkenny etc, Duirmud Connolly could kick ball accurately over the bar off both feet when he was 8 years old. As O Rourke said, you cant train the Donkey to win the derby.
This Dublin team is the greatest of all time, get over it.
I just read a stat on Twitter that 48.8% of NBA players are related to an elite athlete!!!
http://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-basketball-runs-in-the-family-1464130236
Quote from: Jinxy on August 30, 2016, 02:33:32 PM
The Mayo lads are definitely indulging in a bit of reverse reverse psychology, if you ask me.
Don't worry , it won't last. Give it a week or so before the Mayo fans and posters start the chestthumping.
In all seriousness, you could not have scripted a better way to an AIF for Mayo. They must be licking their lips.
Will Fitzmaurice's decision to take off Geaney be his Joe Kernan/Kieran McGeeney (circa 2008) brainfart?
Quote from: Hound on August 30, 2016, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 10:18:49 AM
With him living and working in Dublin though, it probably was a bad decision to give him this semi final.
The living and working in Dublin isn't a genuine complaint is it?
If Seamie O'Shea misses a glorious opportunity to win the All Ireland in 3 weeks, are people going to say - "What was Rochford doing picking a lad who lives and works in Dublin to play against the Dubs?".
Gough, being a GAA person in Meath, would most likely have grown up hating the Dubs!
But as an adult "professional" ref, it's ridiculous to suggest he would be biased based on supporting Dublin's rival (back then anyway) or based on where he now might live.
In the interest of fairness and transparency, I think the ref should be from a neutral province.
However, given the economic reality that most people have ties to Dublin, I suggest that we have a Kerryman ref the Final: Seamie O'Shea's Dad.
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 30, 2016, 03:16:12 PM
Will Fitzmaurice's decision to take off Geaney be his Joe Kernan/Kieran McGeeney (circa 2008) brainfart?
Fitzmaurice has a number mistakes with subs.
2013-taking off Mark Griffin and Peter Crowley- putting Jack Sherwood on McManamon
2015-taking off Paul Geaney and James O'Donoghue. Bringing on Paul Galvin instead of Tommy Walsh
Thought he should left Gooch on bench sunday and used him for last 25 minutes
If Donaghy calls it a day you'd have to think Walsh would come back in.
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 30, 2016, 03:16:12 PM
Will Fitzmaurice's decision to take off Geaney be his Joe Kernan/Kieran McGeeney (circa 2008) brainfart?
Definitely the wrong decision to take him off but very little ball was heading his way the longer the game went on. Probably didn't affect the result in the end.
Quick question for the lads losing the run of themselves about the greatest team ever - How did a Kerry side in need of rebuilding, with a 36 year old defender, missing JOD and with aging subs like MOS and BS, run this great team so close??
Quote from: Jinxy on August 30, 2016, 03:32:32 PM
If Donaghy calls it a day you'd have to think Walsh would come back in.
Walsh is Crocked!
Mini meltdown from Cluxton.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 09:33:41 PM
Quick question for the lads losing the run of themselves about the greatest team ever - How did a Kerry side in need of rebuilding, with a 36 year old defender, missing JOD and with aging subs like MOS and BS, run this great team so close??
How did the Kerry of the 70's/80's lose to Dublin in the mid 70's to Offaly in 82 and Cork, who didn't even go on to contest the final, in 83? What criteria are you judging Dublin on? The greatest ever debates are always tough to quantify but I can't see any reason not to rank this Dublin team alongside the great Kerry team of the 70's/80's. Hard say if they are better as we aren't comparing like with like but I suspect they might be.
Listened to Wooly Parkinson's podcast today and he said JoD told him he was fully fit to start on Sunday, strange to see him so late. Don't get the full on meltdown talk re Cluxton. Out of 18 kicks he failed to find a dub on just three occasions. Two of those occasions resulted in Kerry goals. Remove them and Macdanger's point is hammered home that an ageing Kerry team, in all honesty, were extremely lucky to be in the game at all with 10 to go.
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 30, 2016, 11:21:16 PM
Listened to Wooly Parkinson's podcast today and he said JoD told him he was fully fit to start on Sunday, strange to see him so late. Don't get the full on meltdown talk re Cluxton. Out of 18 kicks he failed to find a dub on just three occasions. Two of those occasions resulted in Kerry goals. Remove them and Macdanger's point is hammered home that an ageing Kerry team, in all honesty, were extremely lucky to be in the game at all with 10 to go.
All Kerry sources have said to me JOD hasn't been in any form in training to start the game. i thought it was strange but the word was he's plumb out of form
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 30, 2016, 11:21:16 PM
Listened to Wooly Parkinson's podcast today and he said JoD told him he was fully fit to start on Sunday, strange to see him so late. Don't get the full on meltdown talk re Cluxton. Out of 18 kicks he failed to find a dub on just three occasions. Two of those occasions resulted in Kerry goals. Remove them and Macdanger's point is hammered home that an ageing Kerry team, in all honesty, were extremely lucky to be in the game at all with 10 to go.
Most people would agree that on the balance of play Dublin had played most of the football in the first half and probably deserved to be 5/6 ahead at half time. They out scored Kerry by 7 points in the second. I thought overall they were comfortably the better side and the scoreline flattered Kerry. I can understand the frustration with the referee over the Crowley decision but in reality I think there was a gulf in quality between the 2 sides that was greater than the winning margin suggests.
The JOD situation I don't understand either. How do you go from POTY 2 seasons ago to not being able to get your place in a crunch match. Has his form dipped that much or has the shoulder operation taken its toll.
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 30, 2016, 11:21:16 PM
Listened to Wooly Parkinson's podcast today and he said JoD told him he was fully fit to start on Sunday, strange to see him so late. Don't get the full on meltdown talk re Cluxton. Out of 18 kicks he failed to find a dub on just three occasions. Two of those occasions resulted in Kerry goals. Remove them and Macdanger's point is hammered home that an ageing Kerry team, in all honesty, were extremely lucky to be in the game at all with 10 to go.
May as well take all the other scores off them as while you are at it why stop at 2-04? Kerry missed a few sitters in the last 10 minutes, if any one of them went over we may well have a different result.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 30, 2016, 11:33:46 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 30, 2016, 11:21:16 PM
Listened to Wooly Parkinson's podcast today and he said JoD told him he was fully fit to start on Sunday, strange to see him so late. Don't get the full on meltdown talk re Cluxton. Out of 18 kicks he failed to find a dub on just three occasions. Two of those occasions resulted in Kerry goals. Remove them and Macdanger's point is hammered home that an ageing Kerry team, in all honesty, were extremely lucky to be in the game at all with 10 to go.
Most people would agree that on the balance of play Dublin had played most of the football in the first half and probably deserved to be 5/6 ahead at half time. They out scored Kerry by 7 points in the second. I thought overall they were comfortably the better side and the scoreline flattered Kerry. I can understand the frustration with the referee over the Crowley decision but in reality I think there was a gulf in quality between the 2 sides that was greater than the winning margin suggests.
The JOD situation I don't understand either. How do you go from POTY 2 seasons ago to not being able to get your place in a crunch match. Has his form dipped that much or has the shoulder operation taken its toll.
Count the amount of minutes of competitive football he has played since last year's All Ireland, therein lies the answer.
Not being at the game I was unable to get a full picture of the intensity of the Kerry press before half time. My initial thought was for Cluxton to hammer it as long as he could and look for a Dublin player to either catch it or try and break it into space. Durkan exploited this full court press by hoofing his kicks over the press, would Cluxton have had the distance to clear the press or what could he have done to lessen the impact of this tactic? I'm sure Rochford will rewatch those 5/10 minutes many times between now and the final.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 11:11:28 AM
Yeah very interesting article and explains why the richer counties are pulling away from the others as they are becoming more and more professional.
Athletic players can only do so much but it's when you take talented footballers and make them more athletic is when you end up with a team like Dublin.
Brolly harps on recently about how Dublin are just allowed to play enjoyable attacking football and players allowed to express themselves which is true but there is so much more behind the scenes. High levels of fitness, strength & conditioning, having an excellent subs bench to get you over the line are all important factors now that are making Dublin very hard to beat.
3 points downs with 10 mins to go they calmly played like the did all game and trusted themselves to create the chances and kick the scores. Years ago the old Dublin teams would have crumbled under the pressure but with all the sports science experience they have sampled now they are made of sterner stuff.
........
I am certain that Joe was also orgasmic about the Dubs' level of fitness, at least during his post match punditry.
Now it appears that Joe loves Dublin more than Zulu and Dinny combined.
Joe's love is the deepest.
Quote from: David McKeown on August 29, 2016, 09:08:13 AM
I might be in the minority but whilst I thought it was a great game I didn't think Kerry were actually that good save for two 5-10 minute patches in either half. The tactic of continually switching Donaghy in and out seemed to leave players confused as to when to the high ball etc and when to run it. For me Dublin controlled massive amounts of the game and should have won by 5-6 points. Dublin looked like scoring nearly every time they attacked whereas Kerry seemed to rely more on luck and Dublin mistakes.
Tactically I thought Dublin got it bang on whereas Kerry struggled. The removal of Geaney for O'Se was a strange one. As was the withdrawal of the entire inside forward line when chasing the game late despite lack pace to break into that area. The inability to get players round the midfielders to win breaking ball also hurt Kerry.
On the referee I thought he was very poor, I have no problem with refs who get things wrong when they've only had a split second to look at things but refs who blatantly ignore the rules annoy me. If it's a black card to offence like it was for McMahon then black card don't chicken out because it will spoil the spectacle as ultimately the failure to properly implement the rules will have as big an impact on the match. . That said I still think the game is too big, too fast and too professional for a single amateur referee. Also I'm glad the referees performance didn't deprive the far better side of their victory.
Agree with all of that. Ref just decided he would give no black cards (maybe actually not a bad thing, but not really the rules)
Brian Gavin will stand back and let Tipp and KK players disembowel each other on Sunday, and 'hurling people' will love him for it.
Dublin got back level very early on in the 2nd half yet Kerry still managed to open up a 3 point lead with 9 minutes to go against the greatest team ever according to many people, if Dublin were comfortably the better team then they wouldn't have allowed that to happen?
I agree Dublin were the better team for far longer periods than Kerry but we all know that doesn't necessarily mean that team will win, their might have been an element of luck about Kerry's goals but the first goal was a really well worked tactical move on Kerry's part and the 2nd goal displayed a weakness we've seen in Cluxton before. Kerry could argue that they were unlucky that their great patch of play came to an end because of the half time whistle as the Dubs were clearly well and truly rattled. On the balance of play a 2 points victory for Dublin was a fair reflection on play.
Maybe Gough should have decided to ignore the half time rule as well :D
For Kerry to win this game you would have imagined they would need good scoring returns from their main forwards. You would have expected Donaghy, Geaney, O'Donoghue, O'Sullivan and Gooch to be their main score getters but with the exception of Geaney it didn't really materialise. Gooch was surprisingly off form from play with him wasting quite a lot of possession & Darren O'Sullivan wearing heavy strapping on his knee from the start you have to wonder how under par this Kerry attack was. Saying that Dublin's defence was very well organised and they tackled very aggressively. Flynn, Kilkenny and McManoman were often spotted back in their own half helping out.
Kerry's first goal was well worked as they took a chance on really pushing up on the Dublin kickout but the second goal really did come from nothing and was the one that turned the game on its head as it meant Kerry went in at half time with a rather false feeling of being on top.
In his article today, Darragh O'Sé blamed young Morley for putting an easy chance wide in the 2nd half and said that Cooper would no doubt have given him a piece of his mind.
Maybe he should focus more on Cooper's incredibly bad effort that dropped into Cluxton's hands in the 2nd half instead of picking on an inexperienced wing-back.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 31, 2016, 11:32:12 AM
For Kerry to win this game you would have imagined they would need good scoring returns from their main forwards. You would have expected Donaghy, Geaney, O'Donoghue, O'Sullivan and Gooch to be their main score getters but with the exception of Geaney it didn't really materialise. Gooch was surprisingly off form from play with him wasting quite a lot of possession & Darren O'Sullivan wearing heavy strapping on his knee from the start you have to wonder how under par this Kerry attack was. Saying that Dublin's defence was very well organised and they tackled very aggressively. Flynn, Kilkenny and McManoman were often spotted back in their own half helping out.
Kerry's first goal was well worked as they took a chance on really pushing up on the Dublin kickout but the second goal really did come from nothing and was the one that turned the game on its head as it meant Kerry went in at half time with a rather false feeling of being on top.
I don't think it was a 'false' feeling at all. In those last 5/10 minutes of the first half Kerry had dublin rattled. Cluxton was unnerved after the first kickout failure resulted in the goal. Kerry had their tails up and it was noticeable in the crowd too. Kerry sensed blood.
The half time break came at an awful time for Kerry. If there had been no half time break I still expect that Dublin would have regrouped at some stage. But if the half time break was say 5 minutes later kerry would propably have added on a couple of more points and been a little further ahead and it would have just made the second half even more difficult.
But those are all ifs and buts. The fact of the matter is Dublin scored more over 70 minutes than Dublin and deserved to win!
Parkinson acting the tool on Twitter about Gough being referee. . . I have no great grá for the Dubs but it wasn't his refereeing that cost Kerry the game yes he made mistakes but he wasn't biased!!!
The Kerry backs were very poor. Standing off the Dubs will never work.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
The criticism of Gough since Sunday's match has got ridiculously excessive. Breheny and Parkinson still having a pop at him this morning basically implying that his integrity was compromised. Maybe they have a point but in fairness I haven't heard too many from the Kerry camp doing much complaining apart from a few programmes and bottles apparently being thrown by fans at him after the match. With the criticism of his failure to implement the rules I think we can expect to see a return to rulebook refereeing for the final where there will be a lessened flow to the spectacle and a greater free count. Even if its a subconscious decision the scrutiny of Gough since Sunday is bound to have an effect.
The overall effect is that Gough might not now get another Dublin match again because of his perceived bias towards Dublin. The irony is that it is almost being made out to be the main reason for the Kerry defeat. Mayo were served a far greater injustice in the 2014 semi final when ironically Kerry benefitted from some very dubious decisions by Cormac Reilly.
Utter nonsense from Breheny in the Indo re Dublin games can't have a ref who lives there. How many refs does that rule out? Probably the best 2 refs currently for a start in Coldrick & Gough
Parkinson losing the bap on Twitter, retweeting pictures of Gough standing with Sam last year when the Dubs visited his school. Also, posting videos of the 45 incident with McMenamin slowed down and zoomed in, as if Gough had that view. If that wasn't enough retweeting posts about Gough also coaching kid's teams at McMenamin's club. This conspiracy is up there with JFK and man landing on the moon.
Scruff works for a clickbait site, not worth reading his comment, agenda driven drivel.
I'm glad some people see through all the nonsense, Should McGuiness and the two O Se's for an honest viewpoint.
I sincerely hope someone like John Bannon will publicly address the nonsense Gough has had to deal with since the final whistle was blown on Sunday.
It really is disgraceful to question his integrity in the national media the way Breheny & Co. have.
It's bad enough when you have clowns on social media coming up with all sorts of conspiracy theories, but you expect that.
The conspiracy theory explains why McCarthy was harshly called for steps in the first half for a handy free, why no free was called on the foul to Philly Mc prior to the one Kevin Mc got away with, and why the final Kerry scorer was let away with about 8 steps: You've got to make the conspiracy look the part so people can dismiss conspiracy theorists as crazy.
That's what they want you to think.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 31, 2016, 03:01:54 PM
I sincerely hope someone like John Bannon will publicly address the nonsense Gough has had to deal with since the final whistle was blown on Sunday.
It really is disgraceful to question his integrity in the national media the way Breheny & Co. have.
It's bad enough when you have clowns on social media coming up with all sorts of conspiracy theories, but you expect that.
Second that Jinxy.
The people in the stands who threw stuff - any stuff- at him should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. But even worse are journalists who know full well that some kind of Calcipoli match rigging in the GAA is utterly implausible, or are incapable of seeing that a ref (from bleedin' Mordor of all places!!!) would have no grá for the Dubs (in a footballing sense).
Some people need to realise that impugning a man's integrity on the pitch can have consequences (and serious ones) off it.
Some people need to stop pursuing clickbait at the cost of their own (minimal) reputations.
And some people need to realise that the greatest lesson any sport can give you is how to lose, given it will happen to all of us, in one way or another. And I speak as Dub who's been there since 83 and have seen them come up with more and more outlandish ways of losing, up until the present time.
It is only a bleedin' game. Jaysis.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/mike-quirke-dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/mike-quirke-dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html)
'Now, I know the free count was 22-13 in Dublin's favour. Also, I'm acutely aware that it was a stonewall yellow card foul committed by Kevin McManamon for his shuddering hit on a rampaging Peter Crowley in injury time that could have led to a potential Bryan Sheehan game-levelling free. I'm further aware that there were several other instances like the two 45s a minute apart in the second half (one each for Paul Murphy and McManamon) that were called incorrectly, in my opinion, and both in Dublin's favour. More still, when you look at Brian Fenton jumping into a hop ball between Kieran Donaghy and Michael Darragh McAuley and stealing the possession illegally before either had touched the ball,... there was plenty that you could point to as a disgruntled Kerry supporter as reason why the referee had potentially cost Kerry the game or at least a chance of a replay.
However, again, I find such excuse-ridden thinking to be utter bullshit.'
;D
Who and when was the last intercounty ref from Dublin any why hasn't there been one in ages?
Jim Gavin would make a great ref.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 31, 2016, 03:36:19 PM
Who and when was the last intercounty ref from Dublin any why hasn't there been one in ages?
Maybe mind playing tricks on me, but I seem to remember we had a lad with long black hair who reffed intercounty, called Woods. Back in the 80s or 90s I think. Don't think he got close to an All Ireland final though.
Heffo or Indiana would probably remember if I'm right or not.
So to sum up, posters from Dublin and Tyrone reckon Gough was mighty, and the majority of the rest think he was sore on Kerry. Read in the Irish News today that intercounty ref's have to make around a 1000 calls a game... A brain melting stat!
Quote from: JoG2 on August 31, 2016, 04:16:04 PM
So to sum up, posters from Dublin and Tyrone reckon Gough was mighty, and the majority of the rest think he was sore on Kerry. Read in the Irish News today that intercounty ref's have to make around a 1000 calls a game... A brain melting stat!
I think that was Jarlath guessing at a number..
The problem with David Gough is that everything has to be about David Gough, he consistently confuses the size of his ego with the size of his talent.
Should never have been let near a whistle again after his joke display in the Hogan final this year. Some of his decisions on sunday were appallingly bad.
I think there were a couple of missed calls in the game, including what would have been a very important free for Kerry. However, most referees will miss a couple of calls in a game and I think Gough got most of the calls right. The vast majority of them. I also think where he didn't get the calls right, it was because he had decided to try and let the game flow. That's not a hanging offence in my book.
And even if he was cat, and if he got everything wrong, to come out and start casting aspersions in the media about his bias is completely and utterly wrong. He's a Meath man. Lots of people are forced to work and live in Dublin. It doesn't mean they magically get some allegiance to the Dubs. In fact it may be the opposite, given the nature of the rivalry. I can't imagine a lad from Ferbane, working and maybe living in Athlone, giving Westmeath too much! If we don't trust our referees to do their best, then we might as well fold up the tent and go home.
Quote from: Keyser soze on August 31, 2016, 04:46:13 PM
The problem with David Gough is that everything has to be about David Gough, he consistently confuses the size of his ego with the size of his talent.
Should never have been let near a whistle again after his joke display in the Hogan final this year. Some of his decisions on sunday were appallingly bad.
How did Johnny Copper not get a card for shoving Darren O Sullivan into the post after he scored is beyond me. One of Kerry's best players banjaxed with a late and dirty hit...disgraceful. Can you imagine what the Dubs would be saying if the same happened to DeanRock?
When Cooper avoided a card against Mayo, for a Cantona style attack on DOC, the reason given for the lack of s red card is that "he didn't have form" for those types of antics. Well he definitely has form now!!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 31, 2016, 04:53:22 PM
I think there were a couple of missed calls in the game, including what would have been a very important free for Kerry. However, most referees will miss a couple of calls in a game and I think Gough got most of the calls right. The vast majority of them. I also think where he didn't get the calls right, it was because he had decided to try and let the game flow. That's not a hanging offence in my book.
And even if he was cat, and if he got everything wrong, to come out and start casting aspersions in the media about his bias is completely and utterly wrong. He's a Meath man. Lots of people are forced to work and live in Dublin. It doesn't mean they magically get some allegiance to the Dubs. In fact it may be the opposite, given the nature of the rivalry. I can't imagine a lad from Ferbane, working and maybe living in Athlone, giving Westmeath too much! If we don't trust our referees to do their best, then we might as well fold up the tent and go home.
I think your first point is 100% correct. In the context of how he chose to referee the match, the McMahon and Crowley blatant fouls for example could easily be forgiven as non fouls in real time. My honest impression of the Crowley incident in real time was that it wasn't a free kick given the way he had chosen to let the game flow. Replays proved otherwise.
The irony of Parkinson's argument is that he himself lives and works in Dublin and has played club football there and yet he doesn't appear to have developed any great love for Dublin. There are countless examples of lads that are in the same position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ZfHRB6o_8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ZfHRB6o_8)
Radio Kerry commentary highlights from Sunday.
Listen to their reaction to the Crowley incident at 04:36.
A lot of people crucifying Gough over a decision they agreed with themselves in real-time.
Heard from a Kerry fella who was at the match and he reckons the programs were being thrown at Bernard Dunne who was celebrating in front of the Kerry crowd and Gough just happened to be passing. No idea how true that is though.
While I don't think Gough was intentionally biased, they should be able to have a ref from a neutral province to completely remove any question of bias.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 31, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
, they should be able to have a ref from a neutral province to completely remove any question of bias.
Exactly.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 31, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
Heard from a Kerry fella who was at the match and he reckons the programs were being thrown at Bernard Dunne who was celebrating in front of the Kerry crowd and Gough just happened to be passing. No idea how true that is though.
While I don't think Gough was intentionally biased, they should be able to have a ref from a neutral province to completely remove any question of bias.
Bernard is part of the Dublin back-room team? What is his role? Seems strange to have a former boxer involved with footballers?
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 31, 2016, 07:28:05 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 31, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
Heard from a Kerry fella who was at the match and he reckons the programs were being thrown at Bernard Dunne who was celebrating in front of the Kerry crowd and Gough just happened to be passing. No idea how true that is though.
While I don't think Gough was intentionally biased, they should be able to have a ref from a neutral province to completely remove any question of bias.
Bernard is part of the Dublin back-room team? What is his role? Seems strange to have a former boxer involved with footballers?
Has been part of the team for a good few years now, official title is Lifestyle coach but does a lot of different roles and duties, he is meant to be very good, good to have him on board.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 31, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
Heard from a Kerry fella who was at the match and he reckons the programs were being thrown at Bernard Dunne who was celebrating in front of the Kerry crowd and Gough just happened to be passing. No idea how true that is though.
While I don't think Gough was intentionally biased, they should be able to have a ref from a neutral province to completely remove any question of bias.
Not even close to true. I was in the front row of 706, right at the halfway line looking down on what was happening. There was one older kerry man standing right above the tunnel throwing stuff down at Gough. He was pointed out to the Gardai and Security as soon as it happened. There were also numerous other Kerry fans firing stuff directly at Gough as he walked off. Bernard wasn't even close to him.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
And you know that how exactly??
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Awh really? And we thought everyone loved us ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
Are you going to tell us how you know this or will we all just assume you are making stuff up?
QuoteIts all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
Which proves that your are the big dickhead everyone thinks you are.
Who refs the in house Kerry games?
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 01, 2016, 02:02:02 PM
Who refs the in house Kerry games?
The Mayo lads may have a view on that. ;)
Quote from: highorlow on September 01, 2016, 01:45:31 PM
QuoteIts all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
Which proves that your are the big d**khead everyone thinks you are.
;D Thank you.
Surprised the Mods let individual name calling, the policy should be attack the post, not the poster. . . . . .
Edit as per below.
No need for personal attaches at all.
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 01, 2016, 02:02:02 PM
Who refs the in house Kerry games?
IC Refs - Kerry started the practice
Quote from: Jinxy on September 01, 2016, 02:26:51 PM
No need for personal attaches at all.
Attachés? They're a key part of the Dublin backroom team
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
I must admit that's how I read it as well in the end.
So he rode Kerry right ???
Quote from: orangeman on September 01, 2016, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
I must admit that's how I read it as well in the end.
So he rode Kerry right ???
I thought of the "what did the Romans ever do for us " in the Life of Brian.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
Kerry just cannot take their beatings. Whether its Cork in the 90s , Tyrone in the 00s or Dublin in the last four years Kerry will never be gracious enough to accept that other teams were better. Have a read of Weeshie Fogartys book and you will get evety excuse for a Kerry defeat except the fact that the opposition were better.
Quote from: orangeman on September 01, 2016, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
I must admit that's how I read it as well in the end.
So he rode Kerry right ???
Nah, that's just bullshit.
;)
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
16 years of abuse from the rest of the country so yes, we do. When this great team is gone then order will be restored for you.
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
Only scum I have ever seen is the drunken hoards of Culchies coming up for the day drunk has hell and cant behave themselves. Note to parents, look after your kids.
Maybe Donaghy has something to say about it in his book.
Anyway great game and the best team of the last 120 years won so no harm in that.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:13:05 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
16 years of abuse from the rest of the country so yes, we do. When this great team is gone then order will be restored for you.
Ah man, had no idea you got it so bad. Here, if there's anything we can do, I dunno, deliver 'round a delicious nutritious meal to your door, anything, let me know.. Money's no object
Quote from: JoG2 on September 02, 2016, 08:40:51 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:13:05 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
16 years of abuse from the rest of the country so yes, we do. When this great team is gone then order will be restored for you.
Ah man, had no idea you got it so bad. Here, if there's anything we can do, I dunno, deliver 'round a delicious nutritious meal to your door, anything, let me know.. Money's no object
;)
96 - 2011, mainly in the noughties though....
By and large most were happy to see Dublin winning in 2011 . There was never huge anti Dublin feeling that many Hill 16 boys like to think. I differentiate between "Hill 16 is Dublin only" and Dublin folk who are members of GAA clubs.
There can be massive triumphalism here and an inability to see that every possible metric is now in dublins favour . The sport of Gaelic football is becoming rapidly uncompetitive. The second best team in the country needed a 2 goal handicap to turn the game in to a contest . The Dublin team are on another plan physically to all others . That is a fact . The GAA have allowed this happen because they needed it to happen for financial reasons .
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
How many players have been booed in Croke park when taking frees. Not just dublin fans who have done it.
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Don't care what 'reason' he might have. Keegan and Connolly both made a point of making a bee-line for each other in the replay last year and shook each others hands, gave each other a hug too. That's the 'GAA way'. It's a game. What happened on the pitch during past games stays in the past and the slate is wiped clear, they (Keegan and Connolly) both showed that. Just a pity Donaghy couldn't show the same graciousness and sportsmanship. Bet that made the win all that bit sweeter for McMahon too.
Quote from: dublin7 on September 02, 2016, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
How many players have been booed in Croke park when taking frees. Not just dublin fans who have done it.
Utterly pathetic behaviour. To be fair Dublin have no monopoly on this . Just more supporters which means a larger minority. Frankly I think booing a free taker is pathetic behaviour.
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Don't care what 'reason' he might have. Keegan and Connolly both made a point of making a bee-line for each other in the replay last year and shook each others hands, gave each other a hug too. That's the 'GAA way'. It's a game. What happened on the pitch during past games stays in the past and the slate is wiped clear, they (Keegan and Connolly) both showed that. Just a pity Donaghy couldn't show the same graciousness and sportsmanship. Bet that made the win all that bit sweeter for McMahon too.
Donaghy got been booed in the past ever before any handshakes . There is a certain herd mentality in the support that needs a bad guy to boo . A bit pathetic frankly .
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Don't care what 'reason' he might have. Keegan and Connolly both made a point of making a bee-line for each other in the replay last year and shook each others hands, gave each other a hug too. That's the 'GAA way'. It's a game. What happened on the pitch during past games stays in the past and the slate is wiped clear, they (Keegan and Connolly) both showed that. Just a pity Donaghy couldn't show the same graciousness and sportsmanship. Bet that made the win all that bit sweeter for McMahon too.
Donaghy got been booed in the past ever before any handshakes . There is a certain herd mentality in the support that needs a bad guy to boo . A bit pathetic frankly .
As is refusing to shake your markers hand....
I'm no fan of Donaghy but refusing to shake McMahon's hand before a game doesn't make him a sc**bag. As for the booing I don't like it but its not just the Dubs either, it appears to be on the rise in recent year.
As for this everyone hates us its simply not true, the vast majority wanted Dublin to beat Kerry in 2011 and even now with the Dubs dominating neutrals wouldn't really care who wins. I wanted Kerry to win simply because of the ticket situation would be easier for my in-laws.
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Don't care what 'reason' he might have. Keegan and Connolly both made a point of making a bee-line for each other in the replay last year and shook each others hands, gave each other a hug too. That's the 'GAA way'. It's a game. What happened on the pitch during past games stays in the past and the slate is wiped clear, they (Keegan and Connolly) both showed that. Just a pity Donaghy couldn't show the same graciousness and sportsmanship. Bet that made the win all that bit sweeter for McMahon too.
Donaghy got been booed in the past ever before any handshakes . There is a certain herd mentality in the support that needs a bad guy to boo . A bit pathetic frankly .
As is refusing to shake your markers hand....
If some tool tried to take my eye out last year I don't think I'd be shaking his hand and hugging him again.
Connolly and Keegan went at it hard and not necessarily fair but as a player you can get past that... having said that there was no eye gouging/biting etc. which is a bit harder to forgive!
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:13:05 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
16 years of abuse from the rest of the country so yes, we do. When this great team is gone then order will be restored for you.
Not an effin' hope.
Dublin's domonance can be put down to a lot of factors but the idea that this talented side just sort of all came together at the same time is pure BS.
Remember 2010 when Meath put five past Cluxton.
Don't forget the Meath side were piss-poor too as Louth beat them fair and square in the final.
Yet after that, the Dublin board got its act together and came up with the "Blue Wave" project; they won the AI the very next year.
You cannot say that sheer talent alone did that for them.
You have 28% of the Republic''s population;' at least a dozen clubs with more underage players than a half dozen entire counties; no problem with players having to cross the country for training and 49% of the total money for GDA from the GAA.
By comparison, Kerry has just over 10% of Dublin's population so the scope for sponsorship is greatly reduced; many players face longer distances to training sessions than even Mayo or Donegal and Kerry don't get to play all their competitive matches on their home pitch.
Apart from all that, you could say the there is little between the teams. ;D
BTW, I don't blame Jim Gavin or anyone connected with the GAA in Dublin for this; they are just making use of the favourable factors that propelled them to the top, where they wll be there or thereabouts for decades to come.
That dominance is the result of socioeconomic factors with the population along the east coast increasing at a great rate and rural depopulation devastating all regions along the west coast.
No problems with Dublin GAA but there is no way you can say Dublin is just blessed with a fine team because of natural talent alone.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 02, 2016, 11:52:31 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:13:05 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
16 years of abuse from the rest of the country so yes, we do. When this great team is gone then order will be restored for you.
Not an effin' hope.
Dublin's domonance can be put down to a lot of factors but the idea that this talented side just sort of all came together at the same time is pure BS.
Remember 2010 when Meath put five past Cluxton.
Don't forget the Meath side were piss-poor too as Louth beat them fair and square in the final.
Yet after that, the Dublin board got its act together and came up with the "Blue Wave" project; they won the AI the very next year.
You cannot say that sheer talent alone did that for them.
You have 28% of the Republic''s population;' at least a dozen clubs with more underage players than a half dozen entire counties; no problem with players having to cross the country for training and 49% of the total money for GDA from the GAA.
By comparison, Kerry has just over 10% of Dublin's population so the scope for sponsorship is greatly reduced; many players face longer distances to training sessions than even Mayo or Donegal and Kerry don't get to play all their competitive matches on their home pitch.
Apart from all that, you could say the there is little between the teams. ;D
BTW, I don't blame Jim Gavin or anyone connected with the GAA in Dublin for this; they are just making use of the favourable factors that propelled them to the top, where they wll be there or thereabouts for decades to come.
That dominance is the result of socioeconomic factors with the population along the east coast increasing at a great rate and rural depopulation devastating all regions along the west coast.
No problems with Dublin GAA but there is no way you can say Dublin is just blessed with a fine team because of natural talent alone.
Again with the population, Dublin's senior football playing population is division 1-3, 1.5 million play senior Men's Gaelic football, think about what your saying.
None of this was a problem when we were being laughed out the gate by Kerry and Tyrone and to the joy of so many people in the country.
To me they are the greatest team of all time and play the best football, total football, all heros and gents.
Anyway nearly time to move on now, your hope for relief lies with Mayo now.
Aristocrat
Who laughed out the gate when Dublin were beat by Kerry and Tyrone ?? No doubt some folk did the streets were hardly flooded with tears of laughter . Most were happy to see Dublin win in 2011 and by on large the team are a likeable bunch .
Whether they are the best team ever can either be subjective .
The concerns many have is that the GAA didn't want a successful Dublin more they NEEDED. Huge resources were channeled with predicable result . This created a snowball effect that I have neither the time no the energy to elaborate .
The sport is no longer a level playing field . That is not good for the GAA as a whole .
The best prepared team of all time have a fair bit to go before their crowned the greatest team of all time.
We'll have to wait and see if the population and financial advantages they hold over everyone will allow them to continue to dominate. The likes of Brogan, Connolly, Flynn, Bastick, MDM, McMenamin, McMahon, Cluxton and O'Sullivan are either 30 and over our approaching it so the end isn't too far away for this group but looking at the talent on the bench and the continued strength of their u'21's its hard not to see them been there or there abouts most years.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 02, 2016, 11:52:31 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:13:05 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 01, 2016, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 01, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 31, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 31, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 29, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
Did someone say Gough is a teacher who lives and works in Dublin but he represents Meath at intercounty level?
You have to wonder does that impact on a ref to any extent when he knows if he makes a bad call against Dublin then he will be hearing about it the next day at work or from his neighbours whereas if it had of been a Ulster ref he wouldn't have cared about any such bad calls.
I just think the Crowley one was so obviously a foul and if it had of happened near the start of the game it would have been given and maybe a yellow card. If he had of given it and it was a draw would so many of you be saying the ref did quite well?
On top of that Gough is on the Dublin team's payroll, regularly coming in to referee A v B games at €80 a pop. It also gives the Dublin team extra info on what he blows for and what he lets go.
They get in multiple referees, as do other counties, its whats been done for years so please try and find another excuse!
Yeah but he's been hired by Dublin over a dozen times and has yet to be hired by Kerry, so he clearly knows what side of his bread is buttered and was hardly going to do anything last Sunday to jeopardise this nice little earner. If you think there's nothing wrong with a ref refereeing a game between a county he's getting regular payments from and a county he's getting nothing from you must work for the Olympic council.
That would be a failing by Kerry id imagine, Are you scruff Parkinson in disguise. The result of the match was 1. Kerry couldn't close out the game and 2. The Dubs finished the strongest. But to make it fair we will get a Kerry Ref the next match.
Bottom line, the Dubs are the better team and Kerry were lucky to be so close with two flukey goals.
Enjoy the final.
Dear Mayo,
Please Win.
kind regards,
31
Its all been the 31 v 1, throw in New York and London too.
We prefer it that way and it makes winning so much more enjoyable to know its gets to you all so much.
But it saying that its easier to say things on forums, talking in person with people from different counties especially in work its basically " it was a great game, could have gone either way, should be a good final" etc.
It was an absolutely brilliant game imo, but is there any need to whinge and back slap yourself so much in victory?
16 years of abuse from the rest of the country so yes, we do. When this great team is gone then order will be restored for you.
Not an effin' hope.
Dublin's domonance can be put down to a lot of factors but the idea that this talented side just sort of all came together at the same time is pure BS.
Remember 2010 when Meath put five past Cluxton.
Don't forget the Meath side were piss-poor too as Louth beat them fair and square in the final.
Yet after that, the Dublin board got its act together and came up with the "Blue Wave" project; they won the AI the very next year.
You cannot say that sheer talent alone did that for them.
You have 28% of the Republic''s population;' at least a dozen clubs with more underage players than a half dozen entire counties; no problem with players having to cross the country for training and 49% of the total money for GDA from the GAA.
By comparison, Kerry has just over 10% of Dublin's population so the scope for sponsorship is greatly reduced; many players face longer distances to training sessions than even Mayo or Donegal and Kerry don't get to play all their competitive matches on their home pitch.
Apart from all that, you could say the there is little between the teams. ;D
BTW, I don't blame Jim Gavin or anyone connected with the GAA in Dublin for this; they are just making use of the favourable factors that propelled them to the top, where they wll be there or thereabouts for decades to come.
That dominance is the result of socioeconomic factors with the population along the east coast increasing at a great rate and rural depopulation devastating all regions along the west coast.
No problems with Dublin GAA but there is no way you can say Dublin is just blessed with a fine team because of natural talent alone.
Again with the population, Dublin's senior football playing population is division 1-3, 1.5 million play senior Men's Gaelic football, think about what your saying.
None of this was a problem when we were being laughed out the gate by Kerry and Tyrone and to the joy of so many people in the country.
To me they are the greatest team of all time and play the best football, total football, all heros and gents.
Anyway nearly time to move on now, your hope for relief lies with Mayo now.
Of course population is a factor. The top 3 divisions in Dublin are way stronger than equivalents in any other county purely due to the playing population in Dublin - sure some clubs have several adult teams so the best players in those will filter up to the Div1 team.
Plus the Dublin clubs have full-time paid youth coaches who can visit schools multiple times a week to help with coaching kids.
It's ridiculous to say population/money are not a factor in Dublin's dominance
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Why were they booing him last year and in 2013 then?
Same reason?
Just on the issue of where a ref lives, works etc. I don't understand why the GAA would leave possible question marks when hiring a referee. Hughes getting Monaghan games when he lives near boarder. Cormac Reilly getting Cavan games. There is a big panel. Get a ref with no connection what so ever. In Premier League Kevin Friend is not allowed referee Leicester because he lives there. I don't think Gough affected the result because beat team won but why have a question mark at all. It happens all year long throughout the country.
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 02, 2016, 04:14:45 PM
Just on the issue of where a ref lives, works etc. I don't understand why the GAA would leave possible question marks when hiring a referee. Hughes getting Monaghan games when he lives near boarder. Cormac Reilly getting Cavan games. There is a big panel. Get a ref with no connection what so ever. In Premier League Kevin Friend is not allowed referee Leicester because he lives there. I don't think Gough affected the result because beat team won but why have a question mark at all. It happens all year long throughout the country.
Ireland is too small a country - it's too easy to come up with possible connections across counties e.g. relations, residence etc. And you'd be excluding the 2 best refs at the minute from doing Dublin games - Gough & Coldrick - so with Dubs current dominance you'd be effectively ruling them out of reffing an AI Final which seems unfair.
Quote from: sambostar on September 02, 2016, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 02, 2016, 04:14:45 PM
Just on the issue of where a ref lives, works etc. I don't understand why the GAA would leave possible question marks when hiring a referee. Hughes getting Monaghan games when he lives near boarder. Cormac Reilly getting Cavan games. There is a big panel. Get a ref with no connection what so ever. In Premier League Kevin Friend is not allowed referee Leicester because he lives there. I don't think Gough affected the result because beat team won but why have a question mark at all. It happens all year long throughout the country.
Ireland is too small a country - it's too easy to come up with possible connections across counties e.g. relations, residence etc. And you'd be excluding the 2 best refs at the minute from doing Dublin games - Gough & Coldrick - so with Dubs current dominance you'd be effectively ruling them out of reffing an AI Final which seems unfair.
Of course it is far more important to be fair to referees, than to ensure no bias against teams.
Far more important to have the best referee's refereeing the top games than worrying about some unproven, imaginary bias.
Quote from: Zulu on September 02, 2016, 04:41:44 PM
Far more important to have the best referee's refereeing the top games than worrying about some unproven, imaginary bias.
It isn't that hard to ensure the optics, at the very least, lean towards neutrality.
As for unproven 'unproven, imaginary bias', where is the proof that anyone is the 'best referee'? All of this is entirely subjective.
Ah here muppet, comparing bias with the relative quality of a referee is not even close to a reasonable comparison. Even if punters disagree about the merits of a referee those that are appointing them to the big games have assessed them over many years and consider them the best. That's all we can go on. There would only be a handful of referees deemed good enough and experienced enough to handle an 83,000 All Ireland semi final sellout. If you start looking at where they work, who they're married to, where they live or went to university etc. you might hard pressed to get anyone suitable to referee a big game.
Quote from: Zulu on September 02, 2016, 04:54:09 PM
Ah here muppet, comparing bias with the relative quality of a referee is not even close to a reasonable comparison. Even if punters disagree about the merits of a referee those that are appointing them to the big games have assessed them over many years and consider them the best. That's all we can go on. There would only be a handful of referees deemed good enough and experienced enough to handle an 83,000 All Ireland semi final sellout. If you start looking at where they work, who they're married to, where they live or went to university etc. you might hard pressed to get anyone suitable to referee a big game.
Here is that free against Kilkenny in 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SJhkyd-XXs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SJhkyd-XXs)
Go to 5:10. Maher has both his feet planted and turns his shoulder to Hogan. Hogan is running and meets him, shoulder to shoulder, but has both feet of the ground. Hogan lands on the ground. Free out and that was the correct call for the illegal shoulder by Hogan (you must have on foot on the ground).
Cody savaged Barry Kelly for that. Even though it was clearly the correct call, it doesn't matter. Kelly won't be there on Sunday, because of Cody. 'Criminal' was the word Cody used. Cody should have been severely disciplined by the GAA.
The big teams hold more sway when it comes to referees. Having them living, working and involved in a club of a team that they are refereeing is extremely poor practice. Imagine the World Cup final being riffed by a fella who lived in one of the participating countries.
I've no time for Cody's moaning but as I said, if you want to rule out a referee because he is working in a competing county then you could reduce a very small pool of referees to one almost non-existent. Dublin are likely to be there or thereabouts for the next 10 or 20 years so are you saying that if the best 5 referees in Ireland happen to work in Dublin (not impossible by any means) they should be all ruled out of refereeing a Leinster final or any QF, SF or final involving Dublin? If so, you are advocating punishing a referee for having to make a living in Dublin, along with a quarter of the rest of the population.
How do we know that Conor Lane won't have a bias towards Mayo in the final? Surely there is a chance he might be sympathetic to Mayo who are waiting so long for an All Ireland while Dublin are the big bad wolf?? Where do we draw the line in how deep we look at a referees connections to a county. If his sister is married to a Mayo man is he compromised? If his son's best friend in uni played minor for Mayo is he compromised?
In a small country with a volunteer referee group we can't look for totally neutral (from an optics POV) referees.
Quote from: Zulu on September 02, 2016, 05:13:44 PM
I've no time for Cody's moaning but as I said, if you want to rule out a referee because he is working in a competing county then you could reduce a very small pool of referees to one almost non-existent. Dublin are likely to be there or thereabouts for the next 10 or 20 years so are you saying that if the best 5 referees in Ireland happen to work in Dublin (not impossible by any means) they should be all ruled out of refereeing a Leinster final or any QF, SF or final involving Dublin? If so, you are advocating punishing a referee for having to make a living in Dublin, along with a quarter of the rest of the population.
How do we know that Conor Lane won't have a bias towards Mayo in the final? Surely there is a chance he might be sympathetic to Mayo who are waiting so long for an All Ireland while Dublin are the big bad wolf?? Where do we draw the line in how deep we look at a referees connections to a county. If his sister is married to a Mayo man is he compromised? If his son's best friend in uni played minor for Mayo is he compromised?
In a small country with a volunteer referee group we can't look for totally neutral (from an optics POV) referees.
No one has made any of these daft arguments.
However if you have
a residential, professional and club attachment to a county, then I think it is fair enough to rule you out of refereeing their games.
Ok, so it's daft to rule a guy out who may have a close personal relationship with a county via his sister's husband but it's not daft to rule out a guy because he lives and works in Dublin??
Hypothetical situation -
Ref A is a Meath man, lives in Dublin and works as a teacher. You say he should be ruled out of Dublin games, despite him being one of Ireland's best referee's.
Ref B is a Cork man, lives in Cork but his sister is married to a Mayo man living in Mayo who is heavily involved in his local club. Over the years the ref and this Mayo man have become good friends, been away on golfing trips etc. and the ref has been to Mayo a good few times with his family and has got to know a good few of the lads in the local club. He's even been to a few Mayo games when up there. He's ok to ref Mayo in big games??
Quote from: Zulu on September 02, 2016, 05:28:29 PM
Ok, so it's daft to rule a guy out who may have a close personal relationship with a county via his sister's husband but it's not daft to rule out a guy because he lives and works in Dublin??
Hypothetical situation -
Ref A is a Meath man, lives in Dublin and works as a teacher. You say he should be ruled out of Dublin games, despite him being one of Ireland's best referee's.
Ref B is a Cork man, lives in Cork but his sister is married to a Mayo man living in Mayo who is heavily involved in his local club. Over the years the ref and this Mayo man have become good friends, been away on golfing trips etc. and the ref has been to Mayo a good few times with his family and has got to know a good few of the lads in the local club. He's even been to a few Mayo games when up there. He's ok to ref Mayo in big games??
A man who lives, works and is involved in a club in a county is as connected Gaa-wise as he could possibly be, without being born there. Witness AZOffaly's clear favouring of Tipp football for example. I live, work and am very loosely involving in an underage club in Dublin, I would not want to ref them.
I understand the point you're making but I'm just pointing out that in a sport where there is a small group of referees to start with and in an amateur game many of the best of them could well be working in Dublin, it's very harsh to suggest they can't ref the big games (many of which Dublin will be in) while not taking into account other potentially compromising factors refs could have.
I'd agree with you if there was plenty of alternative referee's but there isn't and Gough is one of the better one's. It's certainly an imperfect situation but one that I think is acceptable given the limited alternative options.
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Don't care what 'reason' he might have. Keegan and Connolly both made a point of making a bee-line for each other in the replay last year and shook each others hands, gave each other a hug too. That's the 'GAA way'. It's a game. What happened on the pitch during past games stays in the past and the slate is wiped clear, they (Keegan and Connolly) both showed that. Just a pity Donaghy couldn't show the same graciousness and sportsmanship. Bet that made the win all that bit sweeter for McMahon too.
Hmm...
https://vine.co/v/M27EXlpv0T6 (https://vine.co/v/M27EXlpv0T6)
I have a good friend who is a hard-core Mayo fan. Mad! Anyway he's a priest now. On his way to getting a parish he spent time as some sort of Chaplain in Jarlaths, Tuam. He spent a couple of years there. Anyway, around this time I met him at a Connacht final. The Minors were up first - Galway v Mayo. I sat there in amazement as he cheered on each Galway score. WTF?, I said. He knew 5 or 6 starters on the Galway team from Jarlaths. He had a connection with them (he knew them). In the second game (the senior) he reverted back to supporting Mayo!
But that's the point, how do we know any referee appointed doesn't have an unknown connection to a county involved (good or bad)? I just think we have to take the risk that a referee will go about his business fairly. I mean we don't know that a Meath man's hatred of Dublin doesn't grow even more pronounced by living in Dublin by seeing their success etc. so it isn't a given that he would favour them if he was biased.
Game has sped up considerably since 1884.....2 refs one for each side of the pitch and empower linesmen and umpires
Quote from: whitey on September 02, 2016, 06:09:55 PM
Game has sped up considerably since 1884.....2 refs one for each side of the pitch and empower linesmen and umpires
We'll need three refs for the final if Mayo try the rough stuff again.
Mayo's record breaking backroom team has been expanded by one for the last week and until final? Until victory always? No shortage of dollars in Castlebar - some enterprising Dub should setup a roadblock on the road from Shannon to Castlebar to hold up these bagmen coming in laden down with cash from the States.
Quote from: heffo on September 02, 2016, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 02, 2016, 06:09:55 PM
Game has sped up considerably since 1884.....2 refs one for each side of the pitch and empower linesmen and umpires
We'll need three refs for the final if Mayo try the rough stuff again.
Mayo's record breaking backroom team has been expanded by one for the last week and until final? Until victory always? No shortage of dollars in Castlebar - some enterprising Dub should setup a roadblock on the road from Shannon to Castlebar to hold up these bagmen coming in laden down with cash tickets from the States.
:D
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on September 02, 2016, 05:39:41 PM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 02, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: Gaaggle on September 02, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 01, 2016, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 01, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 01, 2016, 04:18:07 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dublin-won-because-they-were-the-better-team-not-because-of-the-referee-418640.html
That is top class Yerraing from Quirke. He points out all the reasons why the ref rode them, just to plant them in your mind, and then says it's all bullshit. But they are still there now, in your mind, remember them?
Donaghy was at the same last year - listing all the reasons they weren't going to give out about the ref.
They really are the worst losers.
Is that why the scum on the Hill boo Donaghy .
He was booed on Sunday because Philly offered his hand for a pre-match shake and he pushed it away. Who's scum now?
Those who booed ; not the GAA way .
And is refusing to shake a competitors hand the 'GAA way'??
Guess you should ask said refusenik why ?? Might well be a reason .
Don't care what 'reason' he might have. Keegan and Connolly both made a point of making a bee-line for each other in the replay last year and shook each others hands, gave each other a hug too. That's the 'GAA way'. It's a game. What happened on the pitch during past games stays in the past and the slate is wiped clear, they (Keegan and Connolly) both showed that. Just a pity Donaghy couldn't show the same graciousness and sportsmanship. Bet that made the win all that bit sweeter for McMahon too.
Hmm...
https://vine.co/v/M27EXlpv0T6 (https://vine.co/v/M27EXlpv0T6)
I think in fairness the first thing that everyone thinks about when they think of O'Rourke is that he's very funny on Twitter
No he's not.
Quote from: whitey on September 02, 2016, 06:09:55 PM
Game has sped up considerably since 1884.....2 refs one for each side of the pitch and empower linesmen and umpires
Thank you Whitey...
Quote from: sligoman2 on September 02, 2016, 07:29:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 02, 2016, 06:09:55 PM
Game has sped up considerably since 1884.....2 refs one for each side of the pitch and empower linesmen and umpires
Thank you Whitey...
Some here might argue that this is unproven. :D
Quote from: heffo on September 02, 2016, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 02, 2016, 06:09:55 PM
Game has sped up considerably since 1884.....2 refs one for each side of the pitch and empower linesmen and umpires
We'll need three refs for the final if Mayo try the rough stuff again.
Mayo's record breaking backroom team has been expanded by one for the last week and until final? Until victory always? No shortage of dollars in Castlebar - some enterprising Dub should setup a roadblock on the road from Shannon to Castlebar to hold up these bagmen coming in laden down with cash from the States.
With Donald surging in the polls, I feel I can now take a break for a few weeks to concentrate my online rantings to other worthwhile pursuits.
Zulu I think the important point is having some affiliation with a club in Dublin. My kids are club members in Dublin and I know a few Dub players and would feel very uncomfortable if I had to ref a Dublin game if I was a ref.
Where did the bias for the Limerick 2014 fiasco from Cormac O'Reilly come from? He has no obvious Kerry connections. Is it that he just hated Mayo?
His mother is from Ros :D Ballagh I understand
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 03, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Where did the bias for the Limerick 2014 fiasco from Cormac O'Reilly come from? He has no obvious Kerry connections. Is it that he just hated Mayo?
Yep.
So in a way, it was your own fault for making him hate you.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 03, 2016, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 03, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Where did the bias for the Limerick 2014 fiasco from Cormac O'Reilly come from? He has no obvious Kerry connections. Is it that he just hated Mayo?
Yep.
So in a way, it was your own fault for making him hate you.
What ever happened to Cormac? Have not seen him Referee since the Roscommon Fermanagh game last year? Seems from that performance he does not like the Rossies either?
Quote from: Jinxy on September 03, 2016, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 03, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Where did the bias for the Limerick 2014 fiasco from Cormac O'Reilly come from? He has no obvious Kerry connections. Is it that he just hated Mayo?
Yep.
So in a way, it was your own fault for making him hate you.
;D
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 03, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Zulu I think the important point is having some affiliation with a club in Dublin. My kids are club members in Dublin and I know a few Dub players and would feel very uncomfortable if I had to ref a Dublin game if I was a ref.
I'm a club member in Dublin now as kids are too but I'd be perfectly comfortable reffing the Dubs & giving decisions against them 😛
Quote from: sambostar on September 03, 2016, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 03, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Zulu I think the important point is having some affiliation with a club in Dublin. My kids are club members in Dublin and I know a few Dub players and would feel very uncomfortable if I had to ref a Dublin game if I was a ref.
I'm a club member in Dublin now as kids are too but I'd be perfectly comfortable reffing the Dubs & giving decisions against them 😛
You'll see a time when your kids will stand on the Hill in blue supporting the Dubs - even when they're playing Tyrone.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 03, 2016, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: sambostar on September 03, 2016, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 03, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Zulu I think the important point is having some affiliation with a club in Dublin. My kids are club members in Dublin and I know a few Dub players and would feel very uncomfortable if I had to ref a Dublin game if I was a ref.
I'm a club member in Dublin now as kids are too but I'd be perfectly comfortable reffing the Dubs & giving decisions against them 😛
You'll see a time when your kids will stand on the Hill in blue supporting the Dubs - even when they're playing Tyrone.
Tell me about it, they're already cheering on the Dubs! They were laughing in Omagh the last time Tyrone played them there & Dubs scored 2 goals in the 1st 5mins - they didn't get any treats bought for them at ht that day!
Quote from: sambostar on September 03, 2016, 05:57:18 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 03, 2016, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: sambostar on September 03, 2016, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on September 03, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Zulu I think the important point is having some affiliation with a club in Dublin. My kids are club members in Dublin and I know a few Dub players and would feel very uncomfortable if I had to ref a Dublin game if I was a ref.
I'm a club member in Dublin now as kids are too but I'd be perfectly comfortable reffing the Dubs & giving decisions against them 😛
You'll see a time when your kids will stand on the Hill in blue supporting the Dubs - even when they're playing Tyrone.
Tell me about it, they're already cheering on the Dubs! They were laughing in Omagh the last time Tyrone played them there & Dubs scored 2 goals in the 1st 5mins - they didn't get any treats bought for them at ht that day!
Wait till one of them is playing for the Dubs - you'll be wearing blue yourself. ;)
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/speed-cams-placed-inside-kerry-border-to-catch-gaa-fans-on-semifinal-day-healy-rae-35067700.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/speed-cams-placed-inside-kerry-border-to-catch-gaa-fans-on-semifinal-day-healy-rae-35067700.html)
Michael Healy-Rae, Independent TD for Kerry South, has hit out at 'disgraceful' placing of speed cameras he claims are a deliberate attempt to catch out Kerry fans coming back from matches.
In a statement, Deputy Healy-Rae claimed that speed cameras were deliberately placed inside the Kerry border after the All-Ireland Semi Final to catch Kerry fans out as they were coming home.
"When the whole idea of speed vans was envisaged it was to save lives... Now it is a money making exercise and a method of doing everything they can to increase the amount of penalty points bestowed upon road users and in many cases be the cause of people losing their licenses," Deputy Healy-Rae said.
"These are respectable, law abiding people who just might happen to be doing a couple of very small Km's over the speed limit and are now paying a very heavy penalty for it."
Good Jaysus !!!
Serves him right for fixing the roads.
It goes without saying that it's a money-making exercise now. They're often pulling people in sneaky spots where the speed limit is lower than it needs to be, and people can be over the limit without representing any danger at all. If they only pulled people in places where the speed limit is reasonable, it'd be fair enough.
The article may have continued....
This is a great affront to the Kerry people, who love their football and also love travelling a few kms over the speeding limitation. The police should have been doing these checks in Cork, or in Galway and other places but not after a match in Kerry. They especially should have been doing it to the feckers up there in Dublin, who I was sent up to put manners on, by the great people of Kerry.
They have targeted smokers, they have targeted drink-drivers, they have targeted those of us who believe only God can change the climate, and now this. The only way to undo this outrageous act against Kerry people is to remove all taxation of Kerry people, to allow drink-driving in rural Kerry and to increase the speeding limitation in Kerry by 10km/ph.
And don't think for a second that I am saying any of this because there is every chance of a General Election in the next 6 months.