Stephen O'Neill and Martin Penrose retired. Great players!
More to follow?
No doubt the Monaghan lads will have something to say about Penrose
How many AI medals did he get? 2
I'm actually happy to see Stevie retire so he can ease those weary limbs now for our club.
Stephen O'Neill was a fantastic forward, one of the best I've seen. I still think that Full Forward line of Mulligan, Canavan and O'Neill is up there with the greatest full forward lines of all time. It's almost a pity that Stevie hung on so long that he will go out with a whimper, because in his pomp he was as good as anyone. Fantastic kicking style, strong and just purred along like a rolls royce.
I hope he enjoys the retirement, he was a legend.
Penrose won't be much of a miss.
Stevie should never have came back out of retirement. A very good footballer on his day, but not one of the greats in my opinion. Last year he was a shadow of his former self and was sniffed out of games too easily. Nevertheless, he has plenty of medals to look back on and I wish him all the best.
There are not too many counties in Ireland that wouldn't have wanted an O'Neill in his pomp, He will always be one of the greats in my opinion. A marquee forward who could hit them left or right and from obscene angles. He had it all, including some bad luck with injuries.
I believe it was Abbey CBS we were playing in 1998 (I know because i was on the bench!), and Stevie burned them with a few early points off the left boot. The Abbey manager was screaming at his center back to stand him up, he's all left foot. Stevie turned the fella on a sixpence and thumped it over from the 45 with the right boot. Timing is everything, but that was an impressive score at 17/18 years of age.
Thanks for some great memories Stevie - enjoy your time now getting old and fat like the rest of us.
Quote from: mb80b60 on November 14, 2014, 04:49:33 PM
Penrose won't be much of a miss.
Stevie should never have came back out of retirement. A very good footballer on his day, but not one of the greats in my opinion. Last year he was a shadow of his former self and was sniffed out of games too easily. Nevertheless, he has plenty of medals to look back on and I wish him all the best.
Thank God he did cos we'd not have seen these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3cdgZqkIlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K0gtQHHZ4A
Quote from: Puckoon on November 14, 2014, 05:01:23 PM
There are not too many counties in Ireland that wouldn't have wanted an O'Neill in his pomp, He will always be one of the greats in my opinion. A marquee forward who could hit them left or right and from obscene angles. He had it all, including some bad luck with injuries.
I believe it was Abbey CBS we were playing in 1998 (I know because i was on the bench!), and Stevie burned them with a few early points off the left boot. The Abbey manager was screaming at his center back to stand him up, he's all left foot. Stevie turned the fella on a sixpence and thumped it over from the 45 with the right boot. Timing is everything, but that was an impressive score at 17/18 years of age.
Thanks for some great memories Stevie - enjoy your time now getting old and fat like the rest of us.
What school he go to?
I thought he went to st. Columbs in Derry?
Quote from: theticklemister on November 14, 2014, 05:58:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 14, 2014, 05:01:23 PM
There are not too many counties in Ireland that wouldn't have wanted an O'Neill in his pomp, He will always be one of the greats in my opinion. A marquee forward who could hit them left or right and from obscene angles. He had it all, including some bad luck with injuries.
I believe it was Abbey CBS we were playing in 1998 (I know because i was on the bench!), and Stevie burned them with a few early points off the left boot. The Abbey manager was screaming at his center back to stand him up, he's all left foot. Stevie turned the fella on a sixpence and thumped it over from the 45 with the right boot. Timing is everything, but that was an impressive score at 17/18 years of age.
Thanks for some great memories Stevie - enjoy your time now getting old and fat like the rest of us.
What school he go to?
I thought he went to st. Columbs in Derry?
He was a year below me at St Joseph's High School in Plumbridge. Went to CBS Omagh to do his A Levels.
Fantastic footballer and a modest man. Will be missed from the Tyrone camp. He put his body on the line on so many occasions for his county and owes us nothing.
Quote from: orangeman on November 14, 2014, 05:34:48 PM
Quote from: mb80b60 on November 14, 2014, 04:49:33 PM
Penrose won't be much of a miss.
Stevie should never have came back out of retirement. A very good footballer on his day, but not one of the greats in my opinion. Last year he was a shadow of his former self and was sniffed out of games too easily. Nevertheless, he has plenty of medals to look back on and I wish him all the best.
Thank God he did cos we'd not have seen these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3cdgZqkIlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K0gtQHHZ4A
Those were fantastic scores alright, but Stevie was very wasteful upon his return. He shot from angles like that far too much - just because the odd one came off doesn't make it the correct decision. Those in the videos are the exceptions rather than the rule. Actually, shooting from those very acute angles probably highlights how far away goal he had to go to win ball. He wasn't effective around the hustle and bustle of the square. He seemed to lose some of his power and strength after returning.
In any case, he was for a couple of years a very good player for Tyrone and I hope he enjoys his retirement. As I said, not one of the greats, but a very good player nonetheless.
Will be remembered as one of Tyrones' greatest ever. Supremely talented forward and an absolute joy to watch. Thanks for the memories Stevie.
Yip Bob Marley is correct, one of Tyrones best ever and for a Tyrone not a bad Oul critter.
I rated penrose highly, he use to cause derry endless problems
Quote from: laceer on November 14, 2014, 06:58:20 PM
Will be remembered as one of Tyrones' greatest ever. Supremely talented forward and an absolute joy to watch. Thanks for the memories Stevie.
+1
Quote from: mb80b60 on November 14, 2014, 04:49:33 PM
Penrose won't be much of a miss.
Stevie should never have came back out of retirement. A very good footballer on his day, but not one of the greats in my opinion. Last year he was a shadow of his former self and was sniffed out of games too easily. Nevertheless, he has plenty of medals to look back on and I wish him all the best.
::) I'd say as a 10 year old you probably won't have seen him at his best.
For those of us who had the pleasure to witness him in his pomp, he was an absolute joy to watch. His point scoring from outrageous angles was unequalled and he his radar seemed perfectly set at Croker. Fair play to him for soldiering on for the past few years and it's just a pity he didn't get another opportunity to clip one over from the end line at Croke Park. Thanks for the great memories Stevie - a proper legend!
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 14, 2014, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: mb80b60 on November 14, 2014, 04:49:33 PM
Penrose won't be much of a miss.
Stevie should never have came back out of retirement. A very good footballer on his day, but not one of the greats in my opinion. Last year he was a shadow of his former self and was sniffed out of games too easily. Nevertheless, he has plenty of medals to look back on and I wish him all the best.
::) I'd say as a 10 year old you probably won't have seen him at his best.
For those of us who had the pleasure to witness him in his pomp, he was an absolute joy to watch. His point scoring from outrageous angles was unequalled and he his radar seemed perfectly set at Croker. Fair play to him for soldiering on for the past few years and it's just a pity he didn't get another opportunity to clip one over from the end line at Croke Park. Thanks for the great memories Stevie - a proper legend!
10 year old? Apologies Granddad.
As I've already said a couple of times he was a very good footballer, but not one of the greats. Unfortunately he soldiered on a bit too long and this year he was very poor.
But good luck to him, he seems a nice lad and has plenty of silverware in the cabinet.
In 2005 he was untouchable. He torched Bellew that year.
Who can forget him putting mc geeney on his arse. Son thanks for the memories. Had as much skill as any player in Ireland over the last 20 years. Would have made any great team in history.
2005 was a vintage year for him alright. Was a real leader that year and stood up when was needed most! Hit some monster scores in Croker that year when the pressure was on.
He didn't just do it at county level, I seen him put on an exhibition of point scoring v Coalisland in the Championship at Omagh. Can't remember the year but he easily scored over 10 points in that game which finished a draw and hit some classic outrageous scores.
One of the most skillful players to grace the game but unfortunately injuries mean that he probably won't be considered a true great like Canavan or gooch.
Quote from: clarshack on November 15, 2014, 01:04:16 AM
One of the most skillful players to grace the game but unfortunately injuries mean that he probably won't be considered a true great like Canavan or gooch.
I would agree with that. He was superb in 2005 but that was one of the very few summers that Stevie was free of injury and able to get a real run of games. He had some brilliant individual performances after making his comeback but all too often he ended up injured when the big games came about. It must have been very frustrating for Stevie to put so much into the game and not be able to get to the heights he knew he was capable of due to injury. I think it's a good call by him to call it a day now, thanks for the memories.
Penrose was also a very good servant. Always felt he didn't quite have the composure at crucial times to be a really top player but he was a very effective performer and particularly good in 2008. All the best to him as well.
Quote from: clarshack on November 15, 2014, 01:04:16 AM
One of the most skillful players to grace the game but unfortunately injuries mean that he probably won't be considered a true great like Canavan or gooch.
Sorry, but that's nonsense.
He was winning All Stars long before that golden generation (2001) and after (2009). I think even last year he was player of the month, 13 years after his first.
O'Neill might not have always dominated games, and may have had periods when injury etc made him less influential. But this does not make him less a great player. Frank McGuigan only played a few great games for Tyrone, but those prove the point.
Quote from: ONeill on November 15, 2014, 11:40:38 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 15, 2014, 01:04:16 AM
One of the most skillful players to grace the game but unfortunately injuries mean that he probably won't be considered a true great like Canavan or gooch.
Sorry, but that's nonsense.
He was winning All Stars long before that golden generation (2001) and after (2009). I think even last year he was player of the month, 13 years after his first.
Agree with that and the point below, people have short memories, even in Tyrone, Stevie is a great in his own era and any era. He didn't re-invent the game but he was untouchable for over a decade, also he wasnt a small boy, he shipped his fair amount of attention from the top defenders of the day and left one on one against any of them he made hay. In later years he was double teamed such was the respect he had from opposition managers. A target man and marquee mobile inside forward rolled into one.
Fitting that his career was more or less bookended by championship defeats by Armagh in 02 and 14
Quote from: T Fearon on November 16, 2014, 01:49:56 AM
Fitting that his career was more or less bookended by championship defeats by Armagh in 02 and 14
His three celtic crosses will help him get over that ailment.
Quote from: T Fearon on November 16, 2014, 01:49:56 AM
Fitting that his career was more or less bookended by championship defeats by Armagh in 02 and 14
Was he a teenager still when he helped himself to 5 points off Kieran McGeeney in 2001 from CHF before taking the All Star for the same position? Or maybe just U21? Not really bookended at all by Armagh was he.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/1341339.stm
Ricey looked alright yesterday or Ulster.
If we're bring back McCarron sure might as well bring back Ricey too. His reading of the game is excellent.
On a serious note, Petey Harte stood out last night.
Was weird seeing Ulster play in Dark blue
Quote from: tiempo on November 16, 2014, 11:17:43 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 16, 2014, 01:49:56 AM
Fitting that his career was more or less bookended by championship defeats by Armagh in 02 and 14
Was he a teenager still when he helped himself to 5 points off Kieran McGeeney in 2001 from CHF before taking the All Star for the same position? Or maybe just U21? Not really bookended at all by Armagh was he.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/1341339.stm
better than that he was playing senior champuonship to great effect from 1999.
I remembering watching him getting stupidly sent of in a League game years ago and thinking for all his obviously talent, he would get nowhere due to a questionable temperament.
Great prediction that one! ;D ;D
A class player who was always a joy to watch, even when he was doing this to us at 2:36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7jxX1Yzdgs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7jxX1Yzdgs)
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2014, 03:41:49 PM
I remembering watching him getting stupidly sent of in a League game years ago and thinking for all his obviously talent, he would get nowhere due to a questionably temperament.
Great prediction that one! ;D ;D
A class player who was always a joy to watch, even when he was doing this to us at 2:36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7jxX1Yzdgs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7jxX1Yzdgs)
Nice finish but how did the referee not blow him for overcarrying?
Quote from: ONeill on November 15, 2014, 11:40:38 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 15, 2014, 01:04:16 AM
One of the most skillful players to grace the game but unfortunately injuries mean that he probably won't be considered a true great like Canavan or gooch.
Sorry, but that's nonsense.
He was winning All Stars long before that golden generation (2001) and after (2009). I think even last year he was player of the month, 13 years after his first.
Agreed it's complete nonsense. The man was a genius.
ONeill was a terrific player. One of those rival players who you gave begrudging respect to
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
No Pony?
O'Neill was a class act, for outrageous point scoring alone. A compilation of his finest scores would be up there with anyone who played the game. And in my opinion he suffered a little for his size, in that he didn't get some easy frees that other forwards would get. Went through a lot of dragging and pulling throughout the years, when someone of slighter frame may have gotten a free handier. As mentioned it was a shame that his career was so dogged with injuries. Was one of the top players for Tyrone during a golden period.
Penrose was also a good player. Wasn't as classy as O'Neill but put in some serious work for the cause. Should maybe have retired a couple of years ago, but in his peak he was a key player in the Tyrone system and I think was a little undervalued by some Tyrone fans, and certainly those outside the county.
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
Maurice Fitzgerald is the best natural forward I've ever seen. Matt Connor is another of the greats in my view. I could easily see Steven O'Neill operating with those guys without looking out of place. Canavan, Maurice Fitz, Matt Connor, Gooch (probably), Steven McDonnell at his best, Padraic Joyce at his best and Ciaran McDonald would be others off the top of my head that I would group him with. Diarmuid Connolly is trending in that direction now too.
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.
In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.
2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.
Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.
Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 17, 2014, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.
In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.
2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.
Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.
Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.
I completely agree there. I remember playing against him in a challenge match back in circa 1999/2000 when he was playing with the Tyrone u21's. They played us in Cross and he gave us the runaround the whole day and embarrassed us. It was great as it was a real grounding experience for us at the time!
He had everything in terms of pure ability, ball winning, he had lovely balance and was probably pound for pound the most important player of the Tyrone team that won the AIs. If he had been injury free he would have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game and definitely better than Canavan.
Agree, if you're having a discussion about the best footballer of the past 25 years then O'Neill is very much part of that. If injuries didn't curtail him a bit you might not even have to have the discussion. If you're comparing O'Neill with other players then only the undoubtedly elite deserve to be mentioned, the man was a once in a generation player. A pleasure to be able to say I saw him play.
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
Its a game of opinions and its extremely difficult to compare players of different eras and especially different positions but Stephen O'Neill could regularly hit scores which literally left the crowd speechless, a skill that very, very few players have matched in my lifetime, in terms of the angles and regularity of hitting them - whether this enables him to be included in some random list of great players, I don't know, but its a sight that will be sorely missed from our game. Its a shame that when a great player retires some people feel the need to say - "yes, but he wasn't as good as...(insert any random list of players here)."
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 17, 2014, 04:40:48 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
Its a game of opinions and its extremely difficult to compare players of different eras and especially different positions but Stephen O'Neill could regularly hit scores which literally left the crowd speechless, a skill that very, very few players have matched in my lifetime, in terms of the angles and regularity of hitting them - whether this enables him to be included in some random list of great players, I don't know, but its a sight that will be sorely missed from our game. Its a shame that when a great player retires some people feel the need to say - "yes, but he wasn't as good as...(insert any random list of players here)."
But there isn't a random list of players in this case to insert.
It's not about opinions either. O Neill was a certified genius on a Gaelic Football pitch.
There is a youtube almanac of him displaying gifts that only the top 0.0000000001% of GAA players are ever gifted with.
Its like saying Matt Connor wasn't a genius because he only had a short career.
The facts are Connor displayed more ability in that short period of time then any other forward at that time . And that includes Sheehy, Spillane, Power et al. Just because they won eight all -ireland medals doesn't make them a better player then Connor.
Because they weren't
Quote from: INDIANA on November 17, 2014, 11:54:25 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 17, 2014, 04:40:48 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
Its a game of opinions and its extremely difficult to compare players of different eras and especially different positions but Stephen O'Neill could regularly hit scores which literally left the crowd speechless, a skill that very, very few players have matched in my lifetime, in terms of the angles and regularity of hitting them - whether this enables him to be included in some random list of great players, I don't know, but its a sight that will be sorely missed from our game. Its a shame that when a great player retires some people feel the need to say - "yes, but he wasn't as good as...(insert any random list of players here)."
But there isn't a random list of players in this case to insert.
It's not about opinions either. O Neill was a certified genius on a Gaelic Football pitch.
There is a youtube almanac of him displaying gifts that only the top 0.0000000001% of GAA players are ever gifted with.
Its like saying Matt Connor wasn't a genius because he only had a short career.
The facts are Connor displayed more ability in that short period of time then any other forward at that time . And that includes Sheehy, Spillane, Power et al. Just because they won eight all -ireland medals doesn't make them a better player then Connor.
Because they weren't
I agree, my point is that people shouldn't be comparing him to a random list of players.
On the general point about career length, of course it makes a difference - not on the "talent" side of a player but in terms of displaying the hunger to keep going year on year, possibly reinventing oneself to account for different opponents in a different era. If a player gets injured or whatever early in his career, you can't simply extrapolate his talent over the length of his expected career.
2005 was one of the very rare years where there was absolutley no debate on who was POTY, it was O'Neill , hands down. Its not very often a player has year like that where he is so far ahead of everyone else playing the game.
I'm glad to see O'Neill is getting the recognition and that credit he is due. He was a special talent alright and will rightly go down as one of the greats.
anyone else retire? Forced or voluntarily?
I heard a few names mentioned.
In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 18, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.
Thats as good a testimonial as I have read about him...Penrose outstanding also...
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 18, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer.
Let's hope players pf this calibre remain in the memory in Tyrone and that there aren't any more of them.
Poor Penrose not getting a look-in on this thread
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 17, 2014, 04:26:45 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 17, 2014, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.
In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.
2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.
Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.
Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.
I completely agree there. I remember playing against him in a challenge match back in circa 1999/2000 when he was playing with the Tyrone u21's. They played us in Cross and he gave us the runaround the whole day and embarrassed us. It was great as it was a real grounding experience for us at the time!
He had everything in terms of pure ability, ball winning, he had lovely balance and was probably pound for pound the most important player of the Tyrone team that won the AIs. If he had been injury free he would have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game and definitely better than Canavan.
Stop showing off lad, I once marked Joe Brolly when he played for Dungiven Thirds
Not sure I'd go as far as saying he was better as Canavan, who was more than capable of scoring from ridiculous positions as well e.g. this on his weaker left foot about two minutes in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJoC6cBE7U0
Ah memories, all in the past now I suppose
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 18, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.
Some of the scores he got in the 2007 and 2009 Dublin games were unreal. As mentioned, he could score of either foot from both endlines, the number of times he put the ball over from acute angles was unreal. My favourite memory of him was when he came on in the 2003 final and sealed the victory with the two insurance points. The last one came at a stage when I was on edge and I always remember thinking it looked so obvious that he was leading the Armagh defender to believe he was shooting on his right (as if the man was unaware that he was left footed and thought he had him covered on his right), I was so relieved when I saw his take it to his left side as I knew he wouldn't miss and that was that.
O'Neill or McDonnell is a tough one.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on November 19, 2014, 08:51:58 AM
O'Neill or McDonnell is a tough one.
O'Neill for me every time.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 19, 2014, 08:43:34 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 18, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.
Some of the scores he got in the 2007 and 2009 Dublin games were unreal. As mentioned, he could score of either foot from both endlines, the number of times he put the ball over from acute angles was unreal. My favourite memory of him was when he came on in the 2003 final and sealed the victory with the two insurance points. The last one came at a stage when I was on edge and I always remember thinking it looked so obvious that he was leading the Armagh defender to believe he was shooting on his right (as if the man was unaware that he was left footed and thought he had him covered on his right), I was so relieved when I saw his take it to his left side as I knew he wouldn't miss and that was that.
I've always wondered why didn't he start in the 2003 final?
o neill was good but i wouldnt say a great he had one great season in 2005. apart from a few cameo appearances in league games usually against dublin he was often inconsistent. his much maligned club colleague mr dooher for me was a more valuable player for tyrone not as aesthetic on the eye but what a man. he should have been the 2008 footballer of the year as his displays against dublin/kerry that year were immense. oneill held his manager to ransom for most of 2008 and then threw a hissy fit after the final sorry not for me. penrose was a worker and a good boy a delight for harte enough said. we have more to worry about i hear joey mac and gormley are also pulling the pin to me those guys far outshine oneill and penrose.
Quote from: ose 14 on November 19, 2014, 07:36:22 PM
o neill was good but i wouldnt say a great he had one great season in 2005. apart from a few cameo appearances in league games usually against dublin he was often inconsistent. his much maligned club colleague mr dooher for me was a more valuable player for tyrone not as aesthetic on the eye but what a man. he should have been the 2008 footballer of the year as his displays against dublin/kerry that year were immense. oneill held his manager to ransom for most of 2008 and then threw a hissy fit after the final sorry not for me. penrose was a worker and a good boy a delight for harte enough said. we have more to worry about i hear joey mac and gormley are also pulling the pin to me those guys far outshine oneill and penrose.
Ach get away out of that!! You sound like a pup whos tail hadn't reached full growth up until last year. Did you see Stevy O'Neill in action in 01, 03, 04, 05? Over those 4 years alone he was consistently excellent. Hissy fit? Gather yourself. As well as being a top player, Stevy has always been a gentleman and a role model.
a gentleman and a role model if you hadnt to mark him or dare touch him in club football. some red tinted specs on here his injury record makes the first day of the somme look like a teddy bears picnic. for the last 5 years didnt know if tony hart or micke harte was looking after him.
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 19, 2014, 04:20:36 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 19, 2014, 08:43:34 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 18, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.
Some of the scores he got in the 2007 and 2009 Dublin games were unreal. As mentioned, he could score of either foot from both endlines, the number of times he put the ball over from acute angles was unreal. My favourite memory of him was when he came on in the 2003 final and sealed the victory with the two insurance points. The last one came at a stage when I was on edge and I always remember thinking it looked so obvious that he was leading the Armagh defender to believe he was shooting on his right (as if the man was unaware that he was left footed and thought he had him covered on his right), I was so relieved when I saw his take it to his left side as I knew he wouldn't miss and that was that.
I've always wondered why didn't he start in the 2003 final?
In 2003 he was at University in England I think for most of the year I think.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 20, 2014, 08:20:32 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 19, 2014, 04:20:36 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 19, 2014, 08:43:34 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 18, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.
Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.
Some of the scores he got in the 2007 and 2009 Dublin games were unreal. As mentioned, he could score of either foot from both endlines, the number of times he put the ball over from acute angles was unreal. My favourite memory of him was when he came on in the 2003 final and sealed the victory with the two insurance points. The last one came at a stage when I was on edge and I always remember thinking it looked so obvious that he was leading the Armagh defender to believe he was shooting on his right (as if the man was unaware that he was left footed and thought he had him covered on his right), I was so relieved when I saw his take it to his left side as I knew he wouldn't miss and that was that.
I've always wondered why didn't he start in the 2003 final?
In 2003 he was at University in England I think for most of the year I think.
heard at the time he was still travelling back and forth in 2004. Remember the league game againist Mayo in Omagh in 2005 everyone commenting on how fit was because he didn't have to travel for university.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 17, 2014, 04:26:45 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 17, 2014, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.
In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.
2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.
Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.
Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.
I completely agree there. I remember playing against him in a challenge match back in circa 1999/2000 when he was playing with the Tyrone u21's. They played us in Cross and he gave us the runaround the whole day and embarrassed us. It was great as it was a real grounding experience for us at the time!
He had everything in terms of pure ability, ball winning, he had lovely balance and was probably pound for pound the most important player of the Tyrone team that won the AIs. If he had been injury free he would have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game and definitely better than Canavan.
Not so sure about that. How many Tyrone supporters would take a 25 year old O'Neill back now over a 25 year old Canavan? I know who I'd take. No slight on O'Neill who was at the top level in the game but Canavan was 'definitely better'.
A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.
I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.
I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.
Can we list the all time greats ?
How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.
Quote from: GJL on November 20, 2014, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 17, 2014, 04:26:45 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 17, 2014, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 17, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles
O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.
In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.
2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.
Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.
Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.
I completely agree there. I remember playing against him in a challenge match back in circa 1999/2000 when he was playing with the Tyrone u21's. They played us in Cross and he gave us the runaround the whole day and embarrassed us. It was great as it was a real grounding experience for us at the time!
He had everything in terms of pure ability, ball winning, he had lovely balance and was probably pound for pound the most important player of the Tyrone team that won the AIs. If he had been injury free he would have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game and definitely better than Canavan.
Not so sure about that. How many Tyrone supporters would take a 25 year old O'Neill back now over a 25 year old Canavan? I know who I'd take. No slight on O'Neill who was at the top level in the game but Canavan was 'definitely better'.
Canavan may have done it over a longer period of time but for pure ability I think I think when both were at their best that O'Neill had a slight edge. Sure it's only an opinion anyway.
Quote from: orangeman on November 20, 2014, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.
I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.
Can we list the all time greats ?
How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.
I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.
The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.
Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.
Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.
Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.
Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.
Best Tyrone forward line ever:
Dooher E McKenna S Cavanagh
O'Neill F McGuigan Canavan
Thats 6 all time greats in Tyrone........two from the same club!
Quote from: ose 14 on November 19, 2014, 07:36:22 PM
his much maligned club colleague mr dooher for me was a more valuable player for tyrone not as aesthetic on the eye but what a man.
would agree with this mate. brian dooher was definitely more valuable to Tyrone and also Clann Na nGael imo.
I understand a little of the hesitancy in some posters to give him unqualified praise. I think O'Neill played at his best when he had good players playing well around him, like in 2005 - it seemed to give him a platform to shine. Whereas Canavan, Maurice fitz, Matt connor etc had the ability to take on defences almost singlehandedly.
whether or not he reached the absolute pantheon (and given the point is debatable shows how good a career he actually had) he has left some amazing memories. Interesting that Declan O'Sullivan has just gone as well - I'd rank the two as roughly the same spot on the ET All Time Great List.
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 20, 2014, 02:59:23 PM
I understand a little of the hesitancy in some posters to give him unqualified praise. I think O'Neill played at his best when he had good players playing well around him, like in 2005 - it seemed to give him a platform to shine. Whereas Canavan, Maurice fitz, Matt connor etc had the ability to take on defences almost singlehandedly.
whether or not he reached the absolute pantheon (and given the point is debatable shows how good a career he actually had) he has left some amazing memories. Interesting that Declan O'Sullivan has just gone as well - I'd rank the two as roughly the same spot on the ET All Time Great List.
O'Neill was compared earlier to Padraig Joyce. Now he's on a par with Dec O'Sullivan. I'd say he'd be chuffed to be talked about in the same breath as those two legends.
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 01:47:18 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 20, 2014, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.
I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.
Can we list the all time greats ?
How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.
I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.
The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.
Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.
Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.
Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.
Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.
This is crazy stuff. o Neill was superior to all of Tompkins, Declan o Sullivan and o Rourke and Joyce too in my view. I couldn't adequately describe how superior to some of the above he was
And to say linden was below cooper, Canavan et Al. You'd want to wash your mouth out
At worst their equal. Linden is one of the greatest players to ever play Gaelic football.
Col
To
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 01:47:18 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 20, 2014, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.
I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.
Can we list the all time greats ?
How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.
I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.
The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.
Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.
Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.
Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.
Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.
You would need Goldman Sachs to create an index, Sidney, otherwise nobody can agree.
Linden is up there with the best of them anyway.
No need to get het up Indy - O'Neill was certainly one of the greatest players I've ever seen in the flesh, but it is no stain on his character if he never quite equaled mid 90s Canavan, early 90s Linden or 97 Maurice Fitz. Not many ever will.
I certainly think skill wise he was the equal of all of the above - I'd just love to have seen him put together three injury free seasons and see what could have grown from there - certainly maybe another All ireland for Tyrone.
I think I have already written a couple of O'Neill retirement tributes on this board. It must be for real this time.
He oozed his own characteristic brand of class, skill and grace, a holy trinity of football greatness and was a memorable delight to watch when he turned it on.
Have to say I've enjoyed reading this thread as so many who I respect your opinions certainly hold my club mates in such high esteem. I remember Dooher more as a young lad and even as an U12 you could tell this kid was going places.
He would try as hard in lesser significant club games as he would in AI finals.
Stevie used to come to his uncle's house next door to us and from the age of 3 he always had a ball with him.
Thanks for the great memories lads and all your effort and toil
For such a small rural club to produce an AI player of the year, a two time AI winning captain, Paddy (1986) and Danny Ball, Patsy Kerlin and Cathal Blee(U21 keeper), we did alright I suppose.
Quote from: Fuzzman on November 20, 2014, 11:03:28 PM
Have to say I've enjoyed reading this thread as so many who I respect your opinions certainly hold my club mates in such high esteem. I remember Dooher more as a young lad and even as an U12 you could tell this kid was going places.
He would try as hard in lesser significant club games as he would in AI finals.
Stevie used to come to his uncle's house next door to us and from the age of 3 he always had a ball with him.
Thanks for the great memories lads and all your effort and toil
For such a small rural club to produce an AI player of the year, a two time AI winning captain, Paddy (1986) and Danny Ball, Patsy Kerlin and Cathal Blee(U21 keeper), we did alright I suppose.
Has the club been disbanded or something fuzzman??!! ;D
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 12:18:01 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on November 20, 2014, 11:03:28 PM
Have to say I've enjoyed reading this thread as so many who I respect your opinions certainly hold my club mates in such high esteem. I remember Dooher more as a young lad and even as an U12 you could tell this kid was going places.
He would try as hard in lesser significant club games as he would in AI finals.
Stevie used to come to his uncle's house next door to us and from the age of 3 he always had a ball with him.
Thanks for the great memories lads and all your effort and toil
For such a small rural club to produce an AI player of the year, a two time AI winning captain, Paddy (1986) and Danny Ball, Patsy Kerlin and Cathal Blee(U21 keeper), we did alright I suppose.
Has the club been disbanded or something fuzzman??!! ;D
Nah they're just in the mire that is Tyrone junior football
Quote from: INDIANA on November 20, 2014, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 01:47:18 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 20, 2014, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: Sidney on November 20, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.
I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.
Can we list the all time greats ?
How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.
I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.
The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.
Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.
Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.
Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.
Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.
This is crazy stuff. o Neill was superior to all of Tompkins, Declan o Sullivan and o Rourke and Joyce too in my view. I couldn't adequately describe how superior to some of the above he was
And to say linden was below cooper, Canavan et Al. You'd want to wash your mouth out
At worst their equal. Linden is one of the greatest players to ever play Gaelic football.
Col
To
I agree. A
Yeah rural club, our best young players now doing what I did and get a degree and move away. It's hard for rural clubs like ours to survive these days with most young lads not wanting to stay around and farm the land.
Hopefully Stevie can play at club level for a few years yet. Dooher played a good few games last year I believe.
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 20, 2014, 07:14:07 PM
No need to get het up Indy - O'Neill was certainly one of the greatest players I've ever seen in the flesh, but it is no stain on his character if he never quite equaled mid 90s Canavan, early 90s Linden or 97 Maurice Fitz. Not many ever will.
I certainly think skill wise he was the equal of all of the above - I'd just love to have seen him put together three injury free seasons and see what could have grown from there - certainly maybe another All ireland for Tyrone.
[/quote
Linden still doing damage on a GAA pitch at 50 years of age I heard. What a player.
Quote from: Fuzzman on November 21, 2014, 05:18:43 PM
Yeah rural club, our best young players now doing what I did and get a degree and move away. It's hard for rural clubs like ours to survive these days with most young lads not wanting to stay around and farm the land.
Hopefully Stevie can play at club level for a few years yet. Dooher played a good few games last year I believe.
There were rumours dooher wasn't walking well now... Are they true or just rumours?
Great article from the Anglo Celt by Michael Hannon particularly interesting was how O'Neill linked with Brian McGuigan:
Marking Stephen O'Neill his prime was a horrible experience - the Tyrone man may not have had pace but he had skill and brains like no-one else, writes Michael Hannon.
This week saw the retirement of a genuine GAA football legend with Tyrone's Stephen O'Neill deciding to hang up his inter-county boots. He did so at the age of 34 with three All-Ireland medals, five Ulster titles, two All-Ireland U21 titles, two National football leagues, and a minor All-Ireland title to his name.
In addition to those team awards he collected three All-Star awards and capped it all off with a Player of the Year award in 2005. His exhibition in the 2005 Ulster final was simply sublime, putting in a performance that saw him kick 10 points from play in the drawn game before kicking another five the next day out in the replay.
That year he also added the Texaco Player of the Year as well as the GPA Player's Player of the Year award along with the Vodafone Player of the Year to his growing list of individual accolades. Those were the days prior to the amalgamation of the various Player of the Year awards and it was not uncommon for one footballer to win one award while someone different could win one of the other variations.
In 2005 there was no such ambiguity when he made a clean sweep of everything on offer. He really was quite exceptional that year. During that 2005 Ulster final I laughed ruefully as I watched Francie Bellew, a man who was at the height of his powers and indeed Chuck Norris-esque notoriety, huff and puff as he struggled to contain the relentless machine that was O'Neill.
I'll admit I had a little sympathy for him as I had been given the thankless task of marking O'Neill in the second half of our semi-final replay against Tyrone just one game earlier. He had already scored 1-1 in the first half but still, I felt confident at half-time when Marty McElkennon had announced I was going to move over on to him.
The reason for such confidence was the fact that I had marked him earlier in the year, in the first game either county had played, a McKenna cup tie between Cavan and Tyrone which saw the Red Hands win comfortably. I had managed to keep O'Neill scoreless and in fact had done the unthinkable, performed a series of one-twos up the pitch to score a rare point from corner-back.
Realising I was faster than O'Neill, I quickly figured out how to mark him and nullified him. Little did I know he was only getting warmed up. Six months later and seven minutes into the second half of that Ulster semi-final, he had kicked four ridiculous points from play off me using both feet. I was practically hanging out of him for two of them and he still managed to stroke the ball over the bar from some exceptionally tight angles.
The picture in the next days Sunday Independent was a full width shot of me, practically piggy backing my way across St Tiarnach's Park as I tried to stop him from getting a shot off. I stood and stared at that photo for a half hour the next day knowing and yet questioning that three seconds after it was taken had the ball really sailed over the bar. It had.
It was his work ethic that day to get on the ball that utterly shocked me. No player I had marked before, or since, moved as hard, as often, or more importantly, in as unorthodox a manner, as he did to receive the ball. I'd never experienced a full-forward move the way he did.
Normally if I had the edge in speed on a player I could very comfortably deal with their play and movement, but O'Neill was the exception. To me it seemed like he was making six or seven hard runs just to receive one pass. I was all over him for the first four or five runs, but by the time the sixth run was being made, my legs were heavy, burning with lactic acid, and my mind was working a tad slower than normal.
Things you wouldn't normally do, you were doing, such as falling for dummy soloes. It remains to this day one of the most vivid memories I have of playing Gaelic football.
Everything moving in slow motion, including your brain, and feeling helpless to stop myself from making rash decisions, such as thinking I can reach a ball and then missing it by feet, not inches when I dived in. I have since described it to a sports scientist who explained to me afterwards that I more than likely in a state of hypoxia, or severe oxygen deficit.
With my legs screaming out for oxygen to help produce more energy, every part of me was working a little below optimum - like a boxer barely able to throw a punch, or hold his guard up in round 12 of a title fight.
O'Neill, though, wasn't suffering at all. A few days later I spoke with McElkennon about the experience and he gave me an insight into O'Neill, who he informed me went to the same leisure centre in Tyrone that he attended.
Every morning at 7am O'Neill would walk through the door and hit the rowing machine, going as hard as he could for 15 minutes. Then he popped up on to a bike and pedalled flat out for 10 minutes. Sweat dripping off him, he would lift weights for another 20 minutes and leave.
But there was more to it than that; his movement was unusual for a player playing in a full-forward line. He didn't seem to be interested in the ball like a full-forward is. He was moving in directions and at angles that suggested his focus was somewhere else.
Puppet on a string
It stayed with me for years afterwards that I since met a member of that Tyrone team and felt compelled to bring it up. Laughing at my perplexed description of what was going on, he told me that O'Neill was, what the Tyrone coaches had described to the team as, playing on a string.
Instantly I knew what had happened because "playing on a string" is a term straight out of the lexicon of a basketball coaching playbook. The two shooting guards on a team, for example, keep the same distance away from each other.
Typically one player moves and the other follows so that they maintain a certain distance between each other. Who was on the other end of O'Neills string then? None other than Brian McGuigan, who was operating at centre forward for Mickey Harte's side.
Wherever he went, O'Neill maintained 35 metres between himself and Tyrone's number 11. This meant that whenever McGuigan got the ball he always had the option of turning and releasing O'Neill, moving the ball very quickly, knowing, what seemed like to GAA commentators to be instinctively, where O'Neill was going to be without having to look for him.
It obviously takes two very special players to make something like that work on a Gaelic football pitch. In O'Neills case he had to know when to break away from McGuigan's string if someone else was looking to kick the ball to him - in effect stay tuned into both McGuigan's intentions and the ball. Not the easiest thing in the world to do.
It's why when people ask me who the best player I ever marked was, the answer is an easy one. For a player who was not blessed with speed to be able to thrive in the full-forward line, and not be dependent on winning high or breaking ball, gives you a sense for how clever he was.
Of course, the injuries took their toll on him and after his All-Star award in 2009, we only saw sporadically what he was capable of. Like that performance against Dublin in Croke Park in the National Football League where he kicked a superb point from out near the sideline.
That was the type of score you would say was lucky, only you have seen him do it against you, not once, not twice but four times in a matter of minutes. Or in Francie Bellew's case, 10 times in an Ulster final...
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 24, 2014, 10:42:49 AM
Great article from the Anglo Celt by Michael Hannon particularly interesting was how O'Neill linked with Brian McGuigan:
Marking Stephen O'Neill his prime was a horrible experience - the Tyrone man may not have had pace but he had skill and brains like no-one else, writes Michael Hannon.
This week saw the retirement of a genuine GAA football legend with Tyrone's Stephen O'Neill deciding to hang up his inter-county boots. He did so at the age of 34 with three All-Ireland medals, five Ulster titles, two All-Ireland U21 titles, two National football leagues, and a minor All-Ireland title to his name.
In addition to those team awards he collected three All-Star awards and capped it all off with a Player of the Year award in 2005. His exhibition in the 2005 Ulster final was simply sublime, putting in a performance that saw him kick 10 points from play in the drawn game before kicking another five the next day out in the replay.
That year he also added the Texaco Player of the Year as well as the GPA Player's Player of the Year award along with the Vodafone Player of the Year to his growing list of individual accolades. Those were the days prior to the amalgamation of the various Player of the Year awards and it was not uncommon for one footballer to win one award while someone different could win one of the other variations.
In 2005 there was no such ambiguity when he made a clean sweep of everything on offer. He really was quite exceptional that year. During that 2005 Ulster final I laughed ruefully as I watched Francie Bellew, a man who was at the height of his powers and indeed Chuck Norris-esque notoriety, huff and puff as he struggled to contain the relentless machine that was O'Neill.
I'll admit I had a little sympathy for him as I had been given the thankless task of marking O'Neill in the second half of our semi-final replay against Tyrone just one game earlier. He had already scored 1-1 in the first half but still, I felt confident at half-time when Marty McElkennon had announced I was going to move over on to him.
The reason for such confidence was the fact that I had marked him earlier in the year, in the first game either county had played, a McKenna cup tie between Cavan and Tyrone which saw the Red Hands win comfortably. I had managed to keep O'Neill scoreless and in fact had done the unthinkable, performed a series of one-twos up the pitch to score a rare point from corner-back.
Realising I was faster than O'Neill, I quickly figured out how to mark him and nullified him. Little did I know he was only getting warmed up. Six months later and seven minutes into the second half of that Ulster semi-final, he had kicked four ridiculous points from play off me using both feet. I was practically hanging out of him for two of them and he still managed to stroke the ball over the bar from some exceptionally tight angles.
The picture in the next days Sunday Independent was a full width shot of me, practically piggy backing my way across St Tiarnach's Park as I tried to stop him from getting a shot off. I stood and stared at that photo for a half hour the next day knowing and yet questioning that three seconds after it was taken had the ball really sailed over the bar. It had.
It was his work ethic that day to get on the ball that utterly shocked me. No player I had marked before, or since, moved as hard, as often, or more importantly, in as unorthodox a manner, as he did to receive the ball. I'd never experienced a full-forward move the way he did.
Normally if I had the edge in speed on a player I could very comfortably deal with their play and movement, but O'Neill was the exception. To me it seemed like he was making six or seven hard runs just to receive one pass. I was all over him for the first four or five runs, but by the time the sixth run was being made, my legs were heavy, burning with lactic acid, and my mind was working a tad slower than normal.
Things you wouldn't normally do, you were doing, such as falling for dummy soloes. It remains to this day one of the most vivid memories I have of playing Gaelic football.
Everything moving in slow motion, including your brain, and feeling helpless to stop myself from making rash decisions, such as thinking I can reach a ball and then missing it by feet, not inches when I dived in. I have since described it to a sports scientist who explained to me afterwards that I more than likely in a state of hypoxia, or severe oxygen deficit.
With my legs screaming out for oxygen to help produce more energy, every part of me was working a little below optimum - like a boxer barely able to throw a punch, or hold his guard up in round 12 of a title fight.
O'Neill, though, wasn't suffering at all. A few days later I spoke with McElkennon about the experience and he gave me an insight into O'Neill, who he informed me went to the same leisure centre in Tyrone that he attended.
Every morning at 7am O'Neill would walk through the door and hit the rowing machine, going as hard as he could for 15 minutes. Then he popped up on to a bike and pedalled flat out for 10 minutes. Sweat dripping off him, he would lift weights for another 20 minutes and leave.
But there was more to it than that; his movement was unusual for a player playing in a full-forward line. He didn't seem to be interested in the ball like a full-forward is. He was moving in directions and at angles that suggested his focus was somewhere else.
Puppet on a string
It stayed with me for years afterwards that I since met a member of that Tyrone team and felt compelled to bring it up. Laughing at my perplexed description of what was going on, he told me that O'Neill was, what the Tyrone coaches had described to the team as, playing on a string.
Instantly I knew what had happened because "playing on a string" is a term straight out of the lexicon of a basketball coaching playbook. The two shooting guards on a team, for example, keep the same distance away from each other.
Typically one player moves and the other follows so that they maintain a certain distance between each other. Who was on the other end of O'Neills string then? None other than Brian McGuigan, who was operating at centre forward for Mickey Harte's side.
Wherever he went, O'Neill maintained 35 metres between himself and Tyrone's number 11. This meant that whenever McGuigan got the ball he always had the option of turning and releasing O'Neill, moving the ball very quickly, knowing, what seemed like to GAA commentators to be instinctively, where O'Neill was going to be without having to look for him.
It obviously takes two very special players to make something like that work on a Gaelic football pitch. In O'Neills case he had to know when to break away from McGuigan's string if someone else was looking to kick the ball to him - in effect stay tuned into both McGuigan's intentions and the ball. Not the easiest thing in the world to do.
It's why when people ask me who the best player I ever marked was, the answer is an easy one. For a player who was not blessed with speed to be able to thrive in the full-forward line, and not be dependent on winning high or breaking ball, gives you a sense for how clever he was.
Of course, the injuries took their toll on him and after his All-Star award in 2009, we only saw sporadically what he was capable of. Like that performance against Dublin in Croke Park in the National Football League where he kicked a superb point from out near the sideline.
That was the type of score you would say was lucky, only you have seen him do it against you, not once, not twice but four times in a matter of minutes. Or in Francie Bellew's case, 10 times in an Ulster final...
This is common in soccer, for example, for the two strikers in a 442 formation. Centre halves will also often play that way especially when one is sweeping. Interesting though to see it spoken about in a Gaelic Football team.