The Sacristan of the Dominican Church in Drogheda is currently on tenth day of a hunger strike against thr Order's decision to close the church in that locality.He claims that the church is drawing capacity congregations on Saturday evenings and ever increasing numbers to Sunday masses.Obviously hoping for a favourable outcome here but amid all the depressing anti catholic and theophobic statements,not least on this board,it is heartwarming to see people prepared to make great sacrifices for the faith.
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T Fearon
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Re: Sean Brady Steps Down
« Reply #688 on: Today at 10:57:09 AM »
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Insubordination and dissent is not good for any organisation.The last time this happened on a major basis in Catholic Church protestantism resulted.The decisions of the hierarchy must be obeyed without question as they are divinely informed at all times.
this is your take on internal dissent from this morning.
Quotewe weren't consulted about the closure, I don't know if other churches were, we just got the diktat
Tony, I thought you were a big fan of diktat within the Church?
Quote from: guy crouchback on October 01, 2014, 04:53:15 PM
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T Fearon
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Re: Sean Brady Steps Down
« Reply #688 on: Today at 10:57:09 AM »
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Insubordination and dissent is not good for any organisation.The last time this happened on a major basis in Catholic Church protestantism resulted.The decisions of the hierarchy must be obeyed without question as they are divinely informed at all times.
this is your take on internal dissent from this morning.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I admire the commitment of the sacristan and the faith that inspires it,also he is not in defiance
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
I admire the commitment of the sacristan and the faith that inspires it,also he is not in defiance
He is on hunger strike Tony.
If that is not defiance then I don't know what is.
I still can't decide is Tony Fearon the biggest idiot ive ever come across or the greatest internet wind up merchant the world has ever known. Probably the former!
Quote from: Itchy on October 01, 2014, 06:39:05 PM
I still can't decide is Tony Fearon the biggest idiot ive ever come across or the greatest internet wind up merchant the world has ever known. Probably the former!
Ive been wondering that myself ... and it does seem like the former except it would be a slur on all idiots as most of them don't harbor dangerous and hideous views like the aforementioned creature!!
He has been known to grace the letters page of the Belfast Telegraph with his presence. Much as I'd like him to be a fictitious persona invented for entertainment purposes, I suspect he might be the real deal.
Quote from: hardstation on October 01, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
I met him once. He wasn't a nutcase. Indeed, he was actually dead on.
Got his autograph.
I'd say he's sounder than he makes out to be on this. His facebook (am friends with a few from here) certainly doesn't make him out to be a nutter like he's made out by all and sundry here to be.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2014, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 01, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
I met him once. He wasn't a nutcase. Indeed, he was actually dead on.
Got his autograph.
I'd say he's sounder than he makes out to be on this. His facebook (am friends with a few from here) certainly doesn't make him out to be a nutter like he's made out by all and sundry here to be.
People can behave very differently online compared to face to face. Mike Sheehy may well be sound if you meet him in real life.
Fearon has something that makes him find taking the piss very amusing and he doesn't really know where to draw the line. Ask the Liverpool fans.
It's probably studied in university departments, whatever it is.
Quote from: hardstation on October 01, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
I met him once. He wasn't a nutcase. Indeed, he was actually dead on.
Got his autograph.
As his advisor I must inform you that it was merely a note and was reported accurately to his superior.
I would appreciate not being posted about as if I'm not here
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2014, 10:41:36 PM
I would appreciate not being posted about as if I'm not here
Who said that? ;)
Oh I'm sure he' a harmless oul divil in person. When you go into certain forums where there's a certain topic that usually gets discussed, someone's going to pipe up his views on that one subject but that's only a small percentage of what they're about. Plus there's the keyboard attitude v face-to-face attitude which are always going to be different. There's a newspaper comments section that I often go onto to give out about motorists every time they give out about cyclists, just to stir it up a bit and for slagging purposes. To see my persona there you'd think I'm a bit of a lunatic too.
Anti-catholicism my hole.
Ireland is going through a period where the presumed authority has collapsed.
The fall in attandences and admissions to seminaries is only a headline. The issue of how many Irish people continue to attend church and go through (most of) the sacraments when they fall due but don't automatcially accept what the church says would be a far more interesting study.
I say "most of" the sacraments as anecdotally I'm hearing that the numbers of under 40's who attend confession is incredibly low and thats low from within the subset of society who attent mass regularly. A proper survey of that issue would be interesting.
That's due to secularism.If the Church saves just a few souls its serving its purpose,the real shame is the vast majority who have no strong faith excluding themselves from salvation and blaming the church and its failings for this.
Is this the same vast majority that support Sean Brady? How many of them were at the County final?
This is very confusing.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2014, 11:21:45 AM
That's due to secularism.If the Church saves just a few souls its serving its purpose,the real shame is the vast majority who have no strong faith excluding themselves from salvation and blaming the church and its failings for this.
I hope so......
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2014, 11:33:03 AM
Is this the same vast majority that support Sean Brady? How many of them were at the County final?
This is very confusing.
Or the vast majority that refused to let Brady confirm their children?
Sadly these people are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
That's two vast majorities Muppet. And unless one is imaginary, I can't understand how.....
Oh, I see.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2014, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 01, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
I met him once. He wasn't a nutcase. Indeed, he was actually dead on.
Got his autograph.
I'd say he's sounder than he makes out to be on this. His facebook (am friends with a few from here) certainly doesn't make him out to be a nutter like he's made out by all and sundry here to be.
Now, Farr, you have only to skim through his comments on this topic and on the "Sean Brady Steps Down" one to see why so many sane, reasonable people have come to the conclusion that he's a biteen bothered, as we'd say in our part of the world.
Either that or he's a compulsive troll, possibly a bit of both.
Compare the following extracts and see if you can spot anything odd.
This is the opener of this thread.
"The Sacristan of the Dominican Church in Drogheda is currently on tenth day of a hunger strike against thr Order's decision to close the church in that locality.He claims that the church is drawing capacity congregations on Saturday evenings and ever increasing numbers to Sunday masses.Obviously hoping for a favourable outcome here but amid all the depressing anti catholic and theophobic statements,not least on this board,
it is heartwarming to see people prepared to make great sacrifices for the faith."
But here's what he had to say on the "Sean Brady Steps Down" one.
"Insubordination and dissent is not good for any organisation.The last time this happened on a major basis in Catholic Church protestantism resulted.
The decisions of the hierarchy must be obeyed without question as they are divinely informed at all times."Can you reconcile those statements?
Another gentle statement from our part of God's Acre comes to mind.
Maybe he's just a "Duine Le Dia" and one shouldn't look for sense in anything he pasts.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2014, 12:31:30 PM
Sadly these people are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
Really! By taking a stand and showing their displeasure with Sean Brady?
Tell me, do you think that will there be consequences for their actions?
Seeing as their children were confirmed by another bishop I don't see how they have cut off their noses at all.
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2014, 09:50:49 AM
Anti-catholicism my hole.
Ireland is going through a period where the presumed authority has collapsed.
The fall in attandences and admissions to seminaries is only a headline. The issue of how many Irish people continue to attend church and go through (most of) the sacraments when they fall due but don't automatcially accept what the church says would be a far more interesting study.
I say "most of" the sacraments as anecdotally I'm hearing that the numbers of under 40's who attend confession is incredibly low and thats low from within the subset of society who attent mass regularly. A proper survey of that issue would be interesting.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2014, 11:21:45 AM
That's due to secularism.If the Church saves just a few souls its serving its purpose,the real shame is the vast majority who have no strong faith excluding themselves from salvation and blaming the church and its failings for this.
The collapse of the church's authority is due to secularism. Its that sort of insight that I log on for.
I find this talk of souls and salvation spiritualistic mumbo-jumbo. Believe what you like and I defend your right to that but really if you want anyone to take it seriously you need to at least be prepared to offer up some evidence for our consideration
We are alive now and when we die we rot. Its not that hard to get your head around. There endeth the whole shebang.
Faith doesn't require evidence. There is plenty of evidence (eg haunted properties,out of body experiences etc) that life exists after death,but I agree, no one should be forced to believe and neither should those who do believe be subjected to ridicule.
But those who don't believe should be told they are damned forever?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Faith doesn't require evidence. There is plenty of evidence (eg haunted properties,out of body experiences etc) that life exists after death,but I agree, no one should be forced to believe and neither should those who do believe be subjected to ridicule.
Now I know you are a WUM ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Faith doesn't require evidence. There is plenty of evidence (eg haunted properties,out of body experiences etc) that life exists after death,but I agree, no one should be forced to believe and neither should those who do believe be subjected to ridicule.
Tony...I am about to make you a very wealthy man ;D
http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html (http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html)
I'm claiming it skull - after a month of reading Fearon's witterings, I'm a fully paid up member of the living dead. Where's me cash?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Faith doesn't require evidence. There is plenty of evidence (eg haunted properties,out of body experiences etc) that life exists after death,but I agree, no one should be forced to believe and neither should those who do believe be subjected to ridicule.
From reading your contributions on here then yes its clear that you are quite prepared to believe something without evidence. More than that you are prepared to believe without even looking for evidence. That's all perfectly fine and entirely in line with many other spiritualists. No argument there
However unquestioning faith that is not supported by evidence, does not look for evidence, discourages looking for evidence and frequently flies directly in the face of hard evidence is not suited to being taught unchallenged to school children, should not influence public policy and should not be running state funded schools.
Still laughing at the reference to haunted houses and out of body experiences. Care to produce any of this evidence??
Religion should not be exempt from general satire. Spiritualist like everybody else should be challenged and when spiritualist say/do something ridiculous then like the rest of us they should be subject to ridicule. The haunted houses being a case in point.
Tony, I don't doubt your knowledge of your faith, but who came up with the idea of the Immaculate Conception? I'm sure you celebrate it but have you any idea where it came from?
the immaculate conception is a bit of a baffler. Its dreamed up to conveniently get that son of god third of the holy trinity. Its not so convenient when it dis-entitles the jesus lad from claiming any fulfillment of the old testament claim that messiah would come from the house of david. Jesus' blood line is the god character or joseph the chippy. The new testament was written many years after the death of christ. The overwhelming majority of its many disparate writers never met jesus and were writing to fulfill prophecies. At the time the respective writers had no idea what the others were writing and they all end up telling very different stories as they focus on fulfilling different prophecies or sometimes fulfilling the same ones but very different means. Some good yarns but not an historical record.
Most modern christians seem to have great difficulty with the bible. The american christian talaban are clearly lunatics but they are at least honest lunatics. They claim the literal truth of the bible and they take the flak for all the oddities that the bible throws up. Over here they lack that courahe and we get a wishy-washy take on the bible. The US nuts can hide in the bible. Over here they have nowher to hide. Most have little understanding of the books they claim to believe in
That makes even less sense than Tony does !!
The very concept of faith is not subject to logic,reasoning etc, that's where the big mistake is.No point in looking for evidence,there's none to be found.
I simply believe Jesus existed,performed miracles and rose from the dead.There are billions around the world like me.
If you don't believe this,fine, good luck to you,but why are so many on this thread exercised to the point of rage,by those who do?
Can you please go and google the Immaculate Conception? It refers to MARY being born without original sin, not Jesus.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 06:33:58 AM
If you don't believe this,fine, good luck to you,but why are so many on this thread exercised to the point of rage,by those who do?
Because Tony those that don't are rocked by your revelations about eternal damnation. And there is a vibe throughout that somehow you are better because you do believe, maybe that's what folk object to.
The revelations about eternal damnation are nothing to do with me,they are from a much higher source.Believe me, I would be more than happy to discover there is no truth in these.
I don't claim any superiority due to my faith,my superiority complex derives exclusively from my intellect and innate self belief. ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 09:54:09 AM
The revelations about eternal damnation are nothing to do with me,they are from a much higher source.Believe me, I would be more than happy to discover there is no truth in these.
I don't claim any superiority due to my faith,my superiority complex derives exclusively from my intellect and innate self belief. ;D
You repeat them and believe them so they are everything to do with you. Anyway no further comment to add as your position is clear. You are a supporter and admirer of a facilitator of child abuse. There is no getting away from that. 39 years, ach sure i'm sure they are over it now.
These threads are a joke
Tony may be saying things to show his opinion on Brady and that the culprits of blocking the non reporting of the abuse. But I don't think he is backing the abuse.
Also I don't read anywhere that he thinks he is better because of his beliefs - in fact it reads more like many are trying to bully him with their (non) beliefs and are belittling Tonys .
Tony you are better off saying nothing as your beliefs are being ridiculed by people with some kind of axe to grind on either you personally, the mishandling of the abuse cases or those now disliking the Catholic Church.
It's just bad manners IMO
I think tony is over egging it to wind folk up too
I just don't find the child abuse or people's faith are suitable topics for slagging matches
Quote from: Rois on October 04, 2014, 09:00:16 AM
Can you please go and google the Immaculate Conception? It refers to MARY being born without original sin, not Jesus.
The Immaculate Conception and the virgin birth are frequently confused on this board and beyond, even by people claiming to be believers. Does my napper in.
Quote from: Rois on October 04, 2014, 09:00:16 AM
Can you please go and google the Immaculate Conception? It refers to MARY being born without original sin, not Jesus.
Serious question: Did Jesus ever refer to this?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 04, 2014, 11:16:10 AM
These threads are a joke
Tony may be saying things to show his opinion on Brady and that the culprits of blocking the non reporting of the abuse. But I don't think he is backing the abuse.
Also I don't read anywhere that he thinks he is better because of his beliefs - in fact it reads more like many are trying to bully him with their (non) beliefs and are belittling Tonys .
Tony you are better off saying nothing as your beliefs are being ridiculed by people with some kind of axe to grind on either you personally, the mishandling of the abuse cases or those now disliking the Catholic Church.
It's just bad manners IMO
I think tony is over egging it to wind folk up too
I just don't find the child abuse or people's faith are suitable topics for slagging matches
No, I don't think he is backing child abuse; that's fairly obvious but he is egging away merrily and knows damn well that he annoying other posters by what he writes.
You will find that his beliefs are being ridiculed by others who are practising Catholics and I think it's hard to blame them. Logic doesn't come into it; he started this thread to draw attention to the sacristan who defied his superiors and went on hunger strike in protest at the decision to shut the Dominican church in Drogheda down.
But over on the other related thread he is arguing the exact opposite.
How 'bout this?
Quote".....He's not the first priest to resist a move and try to get his parishioners to back him,defying the divine authority of the church."
Now, can you tell me which is the real Tony or wtf he's up to?
BTW, I don't really mind what he writes. If this is they way to pass his idle time and he seems to have plenty of it, then so be it.
Anyone who responds is a consenting adult and is within his/her rights to do so. I join in the craic from time to time, not because I expect a logical answer but out of sheer curiosity to see what he'll come up with next.
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
You can't argue with that.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
And that has nothing at all to do with the Immaculate Conception. You do know that, don't you?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 04, 2014, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
And that has nothing at all to do with the Immaculate Conception. You do know that, don't you?
I'd say Tony is doing a Google search at this very moment
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
The question I asked was did Jesus ever refer to it?
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
The question I asked was did Jesus ever refer to it?
Do you discuss your mother's means of procreation in public?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 04, 2014, 08:25:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
The question I asked was did Jesus ever refer to it?
Do you discuss your mother's means of procreation in public?
Is that a no?
Who knows if he ever referred to it or not,it is not recorded whether he did or not.In any event the immaculate conception is not important in the grand scheme of things, belief and acceptance of God and an appropriate lifestyle based on this,is.
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
The question I asked was did Jesus ever refer to it?
He never said it to me !!
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
Who indeed could argue with such a clear statement.
Just to be clear - are you saying that it says it in the bible and independent of this you believe it to be true (If so please explain why) or are you saying that it says so in the bible and that in itself means that it is true and no other evidence is required??
Quote from: armaghniac on October 04, 2014, 08:25:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
The question I asked was did Jesus ever refer to it?
Do you discuss your mother's means of procreation in public?
Jesus would not have needed to her to mention it. As a 33.33% equal partner in God Inc he would have known anyway and therefore he could have mentioned it.
I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and it's narrative on the life of Christ from conception to resurrection,to be true.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 05, 2014, 07:52:02 AM
I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and it's narrative on the life of Christ from conception to resurrection,to be true.
So when the bible says completely contradictory things (which it does) you believe this shambles to be inspired by god? Why?
And when the bible proposes the actions that are moraly horrific (which inter alia it does) you also believe these disgusting acts are inspired by god? Why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GaaXmnoISw&list=RD3GaaXmnoISw
I think the Bible is susceptible to misinterpretation but the core key messages are clear.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 05, 2014, 11:15:43 AM
I think the Bible is susceptible to misinterpretation but the core key messages are clear.
I would have thought that murder, rape, family, racial equality etc were all key messages. How can you honestly say that the bible is clear on any of these?
Don't get me wrong. The Bible is a great book and a great insight into some fascinating lives and ideas.
But it shouldn't all be taken as absolute truth.
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2014, 12:18:15 PM
Don't get me wrong. The Bible is a great book and a great insight into some fascinating lives and ideas.
But it shouldn't all be taken as absolute truth.
Agree with all that but think the post should have a few words added to the end being
.......... or as a moral guide.
Quote from: LCohen on October 05, 2014, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2014, 12:18:15 PM
Don't get me wrong. The Bible is a great book and a great insight into some fascinating lives and ideas.
But it shouldn't all be taken as absolute truth.
Agree with all that but think the post should have a few words added to the end being
.......... or as a moral guide.
I personally have no problem with term terms like 'moral guide'. I would be more troubled by words such as 'fundamental diktat'.
The key parts of the Bible are the Ten Commandments and the life of Christ and his teachings in the gospels.All other parts are irrelevant
Really? I thought that you were more an Old Testament, old skool bible thumper T. But given you thought that Barrabas repented and entered the Kingdom of God with Jesus, I'd suggest you read those Gospels you profess to love so much. I don't think he used the words eternal damnation all that much. Damn hippie!
Quote from: T Fearon on October 05, 2014, 08:07:38 PM
The key parts of the Bible are the Ten Commandments and the life of Christ and his teachings in the gospels.All other parts are irrelevant
How very a la carte.
Well you can't get better than the words and life example of the Son of God
Quote from: T Fearon on October 05, 2014, 08:48:02 PM
Well you can't get better than the words and life example of the Son of God
Or a version of them written several decades after his death.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Surely the bible makes it very clear."The Angel of The Lord declared on Mary and she conceived by the Holy Ghost"
This suggests you have been attending Immaculate Conception 'celebrations' but hadn't a clue really what it was.
What are you trying to say about Santa here?
Quote from: hardstation on October 05, 2014, 11:39:57 PM
Nah, I was dragged to the Novena from I was no age. I thought it was X Factor for aul dolls.
;D that made me laugh. And them doing their utmost to out-pray the others in the chapel.
I come from a very traditional Catholic family background with the usual plethora of priests and nuns ordained down the years on both my parents' sides. One thing that we never did though was read the Bible except when required for school. I refused to do RE O-level as I didn't see the point, much to the disgust of The Bob Devine. My lifestyle since leaving Ireland has changed enormously and if I were to judged by the dogma stuffed down our throats from the pulpit, I would be wasting my time even thinking about reconciliation as I am already on my way to Hell (being a Freo fan for 14 years has played no part in that, I can assure you.)
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 05, 2014, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 05, 2014, 08:48:02 PM
Well you can't get better than the words and life example of the Son of God
Or a version of them written several decades after his death.
I have to totally agree with Maguire01 here. Tony, you MUST take into consideration that the Bible was written by "scholars" who just happened to be the children of wealthy aristocrats who could afford to send little Jimmy and little Bartholomew off to get educated, provided they came back and germinated the "right" message to the uneducated and enslaved masses. In effect, it could be argued that the Bible, and for that reason the Talmud, are two of the earliest examples of mass-media propaganda.
Just because it was written a long time after the main character 's death doesn't mean it is untrue or substantially inaccurate.I believe it is the inspired Word of God
The immaculate conception is what marketing people call a unique selling point.
It subsequently drove a big problem with Christianity- the focus on sex rather than wider morality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axEGY1zWe8g
An example of the dysfunction would be the abuse of kids in industrial schools in Ireland.
Historically Chinese culture focused on wellness and social stability via the concept of yin and yang and it covered all aspects
of life including sexuality. Sexuality was not the be all and end all as it was under Christianity.
And you had more enlightened attitudes to gay people as a result.
And this idea that the Bible is the word of God- is the Koran too? And the Bhagavad gita ?And what about aborigine belief systems? Are they also valid ?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 06, 2014, 07:22:55 AM
Just because it was written a long time after the main character 's death doesn't mean it is untrue or substantially inaccurate.I believe it is the inspired Word of God
The numbers of well educated, catholic, church goers who don't know that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John didn't write the gospels is unreal or the fact that other gospels were written by the followers of St Paul and St Peter yet ignored by the catholic church.
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2014, 12:18:15 PM
Don't get me wrong. The Bible is a great book and a great insight into some fascinating lives and ideas.
But it shouldn't all be taken as absolute truth.
I think all religious books have good stuff in them but that they were written by humans and so are limited.
Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2014, 09:18:51 AM
The immaculate conception is what marketing people call a unique selling point.
You never stop talking shit do you ? ::)
I find the Church's attitude to sex and morality quite strange given what had gone on throughout the history of it:
For example:
Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI
Of Alexander's many mistresses the one for whom passion lasted longest was a certain Vannozza (Giovanna) dei Cattani, born in 1442, and wife of three successive husbands. The connection began in 1470, and she bore him four children whom he openly acknowledged as his own: Cesare (born 1475), Giovanni, afterwards duke of Gandia (born 1476) , Lucrezia (born 1480), and Goffredo or Giuffre (born 1481 or 1482). Three of his other children, Girolama, Isabella and Pedro-Luiz, were of uncertain parentage. His son Bernardo, a product of his liaison with Vittoria (Victoria) Sailór dei Venezia in 1469, is much less known because his father kept him in hiding, most likely due to shame, for he was a cardinal, who aspired to become the pope. He gave up hiding his many children after he fathered four more. Therefore, Bernardo received the least amount of attention of his siblings. When he became older, he grew bitter of his father and fled for his mother.[citation needed]
For a period of time, before legitimizing his children after becoming Pope, Rodrigo pretended that his four children with Vannozza were his niece and nephews and that they were fathered by Vannozza's husbands.
Before his elevation to the papacy Cardinal Borgia's passion for Vannozza somewhat diminished, and she subsequently led a very retired life. Her place in his affections was filled by the beautiful Giulia Farnese ("Giulia la Bella"), wife of an Orsini, but his love for his children by Vannozza remained as strong as ever and proved, indeed, the determining factor of his whole career. He lavished vast sums on them and lauded them with every honour. The atmosphere of Alexander's household is typified by the fact that his daughter Lucrezia lived with his mistress Giulia, who bore him a daughter, Laura, in 1492.[10]
He is an ancestor of virtually all royal houses of Europe, mainly the southern and western ones, for being the ancestor of Dona Luisa de Guzmán, wife of King John IV of Portugal, of the House of Braganza.
How can a Church do what they did to Mother's of illegitimate Children when a Pope was doing that shit above as far back as 500 years ago (and 1500 years after Jesus).
Why dont we go all the way back and blame our hompsapien ancestors who had sex with their neanderthal 'cousins'. If only they had kept it under control then we wouldnt have these certain traits coming out in people, nor the Orange Order.
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2014, 12:27:05 PM
I find the Church's attitude to sex and morality quite strange given what had gone on throughout the history of it:
For example:
Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI
Of Alexander's many mistresses the one for whom passion lasted longest was a certain Vannozza (Giovanna) dei Cattani, born in 1442, and wife of three successive husbands. The connection began in 1470, and she bore him four children whom he openly acknowledged as his own: Cesare (born 1475), Giovanni, afterwards duke of Gandia (born 1476) , Lucrezia (born 1480), and Goffredo or Giuffre (born 1481 or 1482). Three of his other children, Girolama, Isabella and Pedro-Luiz, were of uncertain parentage. His son Bernardo, a product of his liaison with Vittoria (Victoria) Sailór dei Venezia in 1469, is much less known because his father kept him in hiding, most likely due to shame, for he was a cardinal, who aspired to become the pope. He gave up hiding his many children after he fathered four more. Therefore, Bernardo received the least amount of attention of his siblings. When he became older, he grew bitter of his father and fled for his mother.[citation needed]
For a period of time, before legitimizing his children after becoming Pope, Rodrigo pretended that his four children with Vannozza were his niece and nephews and that they were fathered by Vannozza's husbands.
Before his elevation to the papacy Cardinal Borgia's passion for Vannozza somewhat diminished, and she subsequently led a very retired life. Her place in his affections was filled by the beautiful Giulia Farnese ("Giulia la Bella"), wife of an Orsini, but his love for his children by Vannozza remained as strong as ever and proved, indeed, the determining factor of his whole career. He lavished vast sums on them and lauded them with every honour. The atmosphere of Alexander's household is typified by the fact that his daughter Lucrezia lived with his mistress Giulia, who bore him a daughter, Laura, in 1492.[10]
He is an ancestor of virtually all royal houses of Europe, mainly the southern and western ones, for being the ancestor of Dona Luisa de Guzmán, wife of King John IV of Portugal, of the House of Braganza.
How can a Church do what they did to Mother's of illegitimate Children when a Pope was doing that shit above as far back as 500 years ago (and 1500 years after Jesus).
What a family they were too:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_QScGSxfnmU/UZP_FfJn0UI/AAAAAAAADPw/8csFtPcOVL0/s1600/i_borgia_rinnovata.jpg)
Now we 're going back 600 years to find something ,anything,to knock the church ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on October 06, 2014, 08:32:25 PM
Now we 're going back 600 years to find something ,anything,to knock the church ::)
That's the problem Tony we don't have to go back that far as things like Child Sex scandals, Christian Brothers, Magdalene Laundries still existed up until the end of the 20th Century. The Church has been a corrupt organisation from Day 1.
I actually think the New Pope is presiding over Catholicism at its best now. Unfortunately education, apathy and past scandals mean the numbers are falling dramatically and within a Century the Church will be on its knees!
It's time to split the Gaaboard.
Gaa discussion
Hurling discussion
Local GAA discussion
And then one for Tony's religious crusade and his defence sometimes of the indefensible.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 06, 2014, 08:32:25 PM
Now we 're going back 600 years to find something ,anything,to knock the church ::)
Well considering your faith is based on a book allegedly written over 2000 years ago, I think its only right that the main protagonists who shaped and evolved the church into what it has become today should be looked at.
A bit of perspective here.A tiny proportion of perverts masquerading as clerics were involved.I'd say the modern church is scrupulously clean in this regard with robust procedures.The past has gone and it's time to move on.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 09:25:05 AM
A bit of perspective here.A tiny proportion of perverts masquerading as clerics were involved.I'd say the modern church is scrupulously clean in this regard with robust procedures.The past has gone and it's time to move on.
The peace process in NI has shown us all that we simply can't throw our hands up in the air and say "ach sure bad things happened, but that's all in the past - move on !"
I know and look at the damage its causing.Whereas all of Europe has moved on from WW2 less than 70 years ago.
Expecting a full house at St Patrick's Cathedral tonight for Mass to invoke God's Blessing on Archbishop Eamonn.
as I said before, the problem the catholic church will find hardest to get over is the lack of priests.
numbers are falling in some areas, but growing in others.
however the lack of priests is forcing rural parishes to cut down on the amount of masses and having to share priests between them.
what would help is women priests and lay priests (or priests that can marry).
I too think that it was a small percentage of scumbags masquerading as priests that has tarnished the church, and a few more who tried to hush the whole thing up.
its going to be how the catholic church and other organisations can deal with issues in the future that will be the measure of success.
but in order to get that far, it needs to address the lack of priests.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
Expecting a full house at St Patrick's Cathedral tonight for Mass to invoke God's Blessing on Archbishop Eamonn.
Seems like a decent enough man unlike his predecessor so will wish him all the best.
Quote from: mikehunt on October 07, 2014, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
Expecting a full house at St Patrick's Cathedral tonight for Mass to invoke God's Blessing on Archbishop Eamonn.
Seems like a decent enough man unlike his predecessor so will wish him all the best.
A clean pair of hands when it comes to child abuse and its cover up according to a fellow Bishop unlike the last lad I presume.
Oh I think Sean will have an influential role,sort of Director of Football comparative,and rightly so.That experience should be put to good use.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 12:44:13 PM
Oh I think Sean will have an influential role,sort of Director of Football comparative,and rightly so.That experience should be put to good use.
Oh, I'm sure the new Cardinal will be needing a new notary to minute meetings and so on alright.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 12:44:13 PM
Oh I think Sean will have an influential role,sort of Director of Football comparative,and rightly so.That experience should be put to good use.
Unless Eamonn has skeletons in the closet that he wants covered up, I can't see what use his predecessor could be as the church seeks to change to a more transparent and accountable organisation?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 12:44:13 PM
Oh I think Sean will have an influential role,sort of Director of Football comparative,and rightly so.That experience should be put to good use.
Oh so you think the new man may need some help in facilitating pedophiles, scaring the living daylights out of innocent children, putting his career before his morals and hiding the truth? ... Yep, Sean's the very man!!
His vast experience in ecclesiastical matters will not be allowed to go to waste
His vast experience in ecclesiastical matters will not be allowed to go to waste
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 06:15:13 PM
His vast experience in ecclesiastical matters will not be allowed to go to waste
If you really did have any respect for the man and / or the institution, you wouldn't keep opening them up to ridicule.
And what is disrespectful about my statement?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 09:23:52 PM
And what is disrespectful about my statement?
Did you not read my post? It's the fact that you're opening him up to ridicule. You know what people's opinions are, you know what the response will be, yet you keep inviting it.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 05, 2014, 08:07:38 PM
The key parts of the Bible are the Ten Commandments and the life of Christ and his teachings in the gospels.All other parts are irrelevant
Still going on about then commandments. Surely they are mainly jibberish - graven images and all that guff.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 06, 2014, 07:22:55 AM
Just because it was written a long time after the main character 's death doesn't mean it is untrue or substantially inaccurate.I believe it is the inspired Word of God
Individual bits of each bible are definitively untrue. If the writers are proven to be incorrect in some of what they write then surely there is a doubt over the rest. The lack of corroboration makes this a significant issue. What is the nature and form of this guiding hand or inspiration that God provided? How are we to know that this loose collection of themed works has anything to do with "god"?
Like I said it all boils down to faith, and the general fulfilled prophecies of the coming of the saviour
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2014, 10:34:42 PM
Like I said it all boils down to faith, and the general fulfilled prophecies of the coming of the saviour
So you are reverting back to the old testament then and its deranged morality?
I said before I do not involve myself in the Bible at a micro level.The basic message is the fulfilment of the Saviour prophecy and his life death and resurrection as described in the gospels
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/study-shows-out-of-body-and-neardeath-experiences-may-actually-be-real-30647180.html
Doubt or disbelieve no more
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 06:57:57 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/study-shows-out-of-body-and-neardeath-experiences-may-actually-be-real-30647180.html
Doubt or disbelieve no more
Sean Moncrief interviewed a woman on Newstalk who wrote about this kind of thing. Very interesting. She spoke about out of body experiences that other people had. She didn't believe in after-life until her dad died, forget the details, but without knowing her dad had died she still knew something was up (and it wasn't because he was ill). This made her investigate other people's stories and that a lot of people do experience weird things when a loved one dies or where people have nearly died themselves. Doctors seem to think there's something to it.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 06:57:57 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/study-shows-out-of-body-and-neardeath-experiences-may-actually-be-real-30647180.html
Doubt or disbelieve no more
What has that got to do with the Catholic Church?
It disproves the myth that post death we're simply worm food.
Did you pick up on the use of the word may?
I think you need to go to a dictionary and establish what the word proof means. It seems very misunderstood by you.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
Did you pick up on the use of the word may?
I think you need to go to a dictionary and establish what the word proof means. It seems very misunderstood by you.
You don't need proof when you've faith, ya doubting Thomas Gunn ye!!
Quote from: johnneycool on October 08, 2014, 09:35:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
Did you pick up on the use of the word may?
I think you need to go to a dictionary and establish what the word proof means. It seems very misunderstood by you.
You don't need proof when you've faith, ya doubting Thomas Gunn ye!!
;D
In the same way there may or may not be a God.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 06:06:34 AM
I said before I do not involve myself in the Bible at a micro level.The basic message is the fulfilment of the Saviour prophecy and his life death and resurrection as described in the gospels
You don't involve yourself with the minutiae of the inspired words of god? Why would he go to such bother with padding out this document if he didn't want people like you to read it? That is just weird
You don't need to know anything more than the commandments and gospels.Avoidance of sin and acceptance of the Saviour.On judgement day there will be no Bible Quizzes.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 11:31:14 AM
You don't need to know anything more than the commandments and gospels.Avoidance of sin and acceptance of the Saviour.On judgement day there will be no Bible Quizzes.
And would you like a desert sir? Or do I even need to ask? ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 11:31:14 AM
You don't need to know anything more than the commandments and gospels.Avoidance of sin and acceptance of the Saviour.On judgement day there will be no Bible Quizzes.
I cant help but find your frequent & pious comments about your "great belief & faith etc.." in God quite sickening considering your views on the issues of Pedophilia within the church .. Do you not see the conflict here ... I guess maybe you and your ilk don't and I suppose that's the problem!!
You & himself are very bad adverts for the Catholic Church
My views on paedophilia are clear and consistent,it and its perpetrators are totally repugnant.Please imdicate where I have demonstrated an alternative view to this.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 02:08:15 PM
My views on paedophilia are clear and consistent,it and its perpetrators are totally repugnant.Please imdicate where I have demonstrated an alternative view to this.
And its facilitators ?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 02:08:15 PM
My views on paedophilia are clear and consistent,it and its perpetrators are totally repugnant.Please imdicate where I have demonstrated an alternative view to this.
Catch yourself on you fool !
Mishandling of child abuse does not in any way equate with facilitation of same.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 02:08:15 PM
My views on paedophilia are clear and consistent,it and its perpetrators are totally repugnant.Please imdicate where I have demonstrated an alternative view to this.
Your constant downplaying of the Church's role as merely 'mishandling' clearly represents your views on the pedophile priests. You are constantly portraying the abusers as a distraction or an irritant that allows a few cranks to criticise the Church. You ignore the monumental failures of people like Brady to protect the children. You defend people like Ratzinger who orchestrated the shameful response of the Church.
But you see it as being all about cranks and anti-Catholics. You don't see the victims. You don't even show a milligram of sympathy for the families, in fact quite the opposite, you blame them. You think the Church is the victim and your reward for this loyalty you believe will be, no about, eternal salvation.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 03:11:36 PM
Mishandling of child abuse does not in any way equate with facilitation of same.
;D
At your blindness, not the appalling behaviour of the priests and the church hierarchy who facilitated them. How many parishes and kids did the likes of Brendan Smyth impact over the years?
From the Oxford English Dictionary
Facilitate
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Make (an action or process) easy or easier:
SYNONYMS
make easy/easier, ease, make possible, make smooth/smoother, smooth, smooth the path of, smooth the way for, clear the way for, open the door for;
enable, assist, help, help along, aid, oil, oil the wheels of, lubricate, expedite, speed up, accelerate, forward, advance, promote, further, encourage;
So what part of moving Brendan Smyth from parish to parish without in any way taking him away from kids did *not* facilitate his abuse of said children? I believe that the Church's actions directly facilitated the abuse of many children. Once they knew they had this problem on their hands they should have ensured these priests never saw another child again, and instead were handed over to the state authorities, rather than 'canon' law.
I agree.We can all look back and say "We should have done".This is what the modern church does immediately upon receipt of an allegation against any priest.
This thread is like having your leg humped by a dog.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2014, 05:19:45 PM
This thread is like having your leg humped by a dog.
:)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2014, 05:19:45 PM
This thread is like having your leg humped by a dog.
We'll have to take your word for it. :D
Seriously. Is there any stopping him?
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll65/twofatguys/archon68_do-not-feed-the-troll.jpg)
Tony isn't a troll. A couple of the new Kerry posters are very poor trolls, probably kids, but Tony isn't a troll.
Tony is a warning to kids of the dangers of crossword abuse
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 09:25:15 AM
It disproves the myth that post death we're simply worm food.
No it does not. These people did not die. Well not at the time anyway. The scientific lesson here is around the phases in shut down of the brain and how far through those phase humans still have the potential to recover.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 10:04:56 AM
In the same way there may or may not be a God.
All that time you save not not doing the detail in the bible could be spent reading Bertrand Russell' flying teapot thesis.
The may or may not be a god but the probabilities are not equal and there is no positive reason to suggest there is a god.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 11:31:14 AM
You don't need to know anything more than the commandments and gospels.Avoidance of sin and acceptance of the Saviour.On judgement day there will be no Bible Quizzes.
So the non christians are bucked then for their false gods
The big vetting process at the pearly gates will focus on the graven image lark, the use of god's name, turning the tv (or gathering sticks) on an saturday or is it a sunday and these crucial matters.
There will be no bible quiz on judgement day. There will be no judgement day
Quote from: T Fearon on October 08, 2014, 03:11:36 PM
Mishandling of child abuse does not in any way equate with facilitation of same.
If the "mishandling" leaves the perpetrator with victims or potential new victims then in what way is it not facilitating abuse?
It all boils down to intention and motive.Not even you would suggest that the Church as an institution wilfully facilitated child abuse
Quote from: T Fearon on October 09, 2014, 09:15:48 PM
It all boils down to intention and motive.Not even you would suggest that the Church as an institution wilfully facilitated child abuse
Does it really??
An drunk driver that mows down a crew kids creates horrific pain and loss, suufers public disgust and legal penalty but they do not intend to nor are motivated to kill kids. The moral and legal judgement of them and their actions still flow. Your point sounds very much like a barrel being scraped.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 09, 2014, 09:15:48 PM
It all boils down to intention and motive.Not even you would suggest that the Church as an institution wilfully facilitated child abuse
I would.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 09, 2014, 09:15:48 PM
It all boils down to intention and motive.Not even you would suggest that the Church as an institution wilfully facilitated child abuse
I would.
[/quote
No-one who's paid attention to the news over the past 2 decades or so could deny wilfull facilitation of child abuse.
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2014, 08:56:00 PM
Tony is a warning to kids of the dangers of crossword abuse
Fearon is sound compared to you Seafoid. You are the most false person on gaaboard.
So none of you have turned a blind eye,passed a difficult problem on or did or failed to do something , instinctively knowing it was not the right course of action,after of course,fully contemplating all the possible outcomes years down the line,the potential victims of your action or inaction,or perhaps took comfort in the thought that "well there are people more experienced or knowledgable than me who can deal with this?"
Quote from: T Fearon on October 10, 2014, 07:46:12 AM
So none of you have turned a blind eye,passed a difficult problem on or did or failed to do something , instinctively knowing it was not the right course of action,after of course,fully contemplating all the possible outcomes years down the line,the potential victims of your action or inaction,or perhaps took comfort in the thought that "well there are people more experienced or knowledgable than me who can deal with this?"
None of us sheilded a child abuser Tony.
None of us blamed the parents of the victims.
None of us hid our connection to Brendan Smyth for 13 years,
None of us inderstated our involvement when it finally did come out.
Nope I'd say you and your hero are firnly on your own there.
Quote from: muppet on October 10, 2014, 08:57:26 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 10, 2014, 07:46:12 AM
So none of you have turned a blind eye,passed a difficult problem on or did or failed to do something , instinctively knowing it was not the right course of action,after of course,fully contemplating all the possible outcomes years down the line,the potential victims of your action or inaction,or perhaps took comfort in the thought that "well there are people more experienced or knowledgable than me who can deal with this?"
None of us sheilded a child abuser Tony.
None of us blamed the parents of the victims.
None of us hid our connection to Brendan Smyth for 13 years,
None of us inderstated our involvement when it finally did come out.
Nope I'd say you and your hero are firnly on your own there.
It's interesting to read what the new Pope has to say about topics such as clerical child abuse and marriage breakdown.
The church has to change and he understands that. Tony doesn't.
There isn't really any point in debating with him.
The Pope is trying to move things on. He's in direct communication with God. According to Tony.
So Tony has a logic malfunction.
I wholeheartedly condemn the abuse that went on and the abusers and agree with all the reforms past and present
Quote from: T Fearon on October 10, 2014, 07:46:12 AM
So none of you have turned a blind eye,passed a difficult problem on or did or failed to do something , instinctively knowing it was not the right course of action,after of course,fully contemplating all the possible outcomes years down the line,the potential victims of your action or inaction,or perhaps took comfort in the thought that "well there are people more experienced or knowledgable than me who can deal with this?"
Jesus H .... Are you for real :o .. WTF !!!
Quote from: T Fearon on October 10, 2014, 07:46:12 AM
So none of you have turned a blind eye,passed a difficult problem on or did or failed to do something , instinctively knowing it was not the right course of action,after of course,fully contemplating all the possible outcomes years down the line,the potential victims of your action or inaction,or perhaps took comfort in the thought that "well there are people more experienced or knowledgable than me who can deal with this?"
This is officially beyond satire at this point.