Incredible job he has done given the resources that Donegal have, at least in terms of player numbers etc.
I think Eamon Fitz is a good manager but Donegal will have a huge advantage on the line.
I wonder what separates him most from other managers...is it his tactical genius or his ability to motivate ?
Kerry mind games.
I think Kerry will beat Donegal in the final by 2 points.
Leaving aside the yerra I suppose when you look at the 5 components of what makes an athlete/team great - lifestyle, technical, tactical, physical and mental - Donegal definitely have the edge on tactical and mental over most teams as evidenced yesterday and that has to be put down to McGuiness. Other young managers such as Horan, McGeeney, Jason Ryan etc to me all seem tactically constraint particularly their inability to change the flow of a game through changes and tweaks.
Does Jimmy have that ability?
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 01:52:30 PM
Kerry mind games.
I think his record speaks for itself AZ. In Kerry we have no problem acknowledging genius when we see it.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 01, 2014, 01:59:21 PM
Leaving aside the yerra I suppose when you look at the 5 components of what makes an athlete/team great - lifestyle, technical, tactical, physical and mental - Donegal definitely have the edge on tactical and mental over most teams as evidenced yesterday and that has to be put down to McGuiness. Other young managers such as Horan, McGeeney, Jason Ryan etc to me all seem tactically constraint particularly their inability to change the flow of a game through changes and tweaks.
I think his ability to anticipate how the other side will react to his own tactics are where his true genius lies. Also, it was very noticeable that by the end of the game Dublin were playing almost exactly the same way as Donegal i.e short handpasses (albeit with poorer execution) so his ability to dictate the tempo and way the game is played by both sides is also very evident. You could almost see the strings coming out of both sets of players subtly being pulled this way and that throughout the whole game. It was a masterclass.
Jim Gavin looked stunned at the end.
I've been thinking about this a good deal since yesterday, trying to put a handle on what it is.
I've been bandying about a term in my mind - "collective awareness". It's that point in time when a group of players realise they have what it takes, and they all pull in the one direction.
Anyone who's ever been involved with a team has most likely seen it happen to their team within championships, within entire seasons and even within games. Once it happens, training immediately improves as nobody is shirking or pulling injuries, nobody is along for the ride. Those 200m runs have a purpose other than to get fit. Those tactics make sense, because everyone is buying into them. Observations on performance and roles are embraced, not perceived as attacks. Egos are channelled. The manager knows what he's talking about because he's in control.
Sometimes it happens inexplicably: just a single win and players start to believe. Other times, it's because 1 or 2 players either come on board and raise the bar, or draw a line and try move the bar. The rest realise what is happening and it comes together like a jigsaw.
Anyone who's ever been involved with a team knows that collective awareness can switch off as quickly as it switches on. Dublin yesterday are a prime example of a team that switched off. Those negative thought lines about celebrity status of players, wrong team selections, wrong tactics, that have been been easily quashed over the past 18 months, probably all came to their minds during the game, and maybe even to the boil last night. It doesn't take a lot to set these things off: this time last year it happened to Donegal, only worse.
Kerry seem to have an inbuilt collective awareness. It's part of their DNA.
From what I've seen of Donegal, Jimmy appears to be a master in raising collective awareness.
He got the most important players in Donegal - Murphy, Lacey, Gallagher, McFadden - onboard straightaway, and they've been dutiful servants since.
He convinced his panel that before they can beat teams, they need to be able to stop them. That was year 1. The results were good and success was immediate.
Once he had them able to tackle and defend properly, he got them to start attacking. That was year 2, and they battered almost everyone who came their way.
In the midst of this, and ever since, he's gotten rid of players who don't do collective awareness. It's made them stronger.
Year 3 wasn't good: two awful beatings. That's the most impressive thing about this year. He has got them going again. That same core he built the team around in year 1 set the bar again, and the young fellas coming in have risen to it.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 01:49:03 PM
Incredible job he has done given the resources that Donegal have, at least in terms of player numbers etc.
Are Donegal's playing numbers that small? It's a very big county with hardly any hurling. Would have thought they have plenty of playing numbers. At least in comparison to most others.
I guess the next thing is for Hollywood to just make a movie based on McGuinness now called The System.
The Americans need to watch out in the Ryder Cup too.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 01, 2014, 01:59:21 PM
Leaving aside the yerra I suppose when you look at the 5 components of what makes an athlete/team great - lifestyle, technical, tactical, physical and mental - Donegal definitely have the edge on tactical and mental over most teams as evidenced yesterday and that has to be put down to McGuiness. Other young managers such as Horan, McGeeney, Jason Ryan etc to me all seem tactically constraint particularly their inability to change the flow of a game through changes and tweaks.
Would have thought Jimmy's strength is greater in the game plan and prep side than during game time. Donegal have a well rehearsed game plan that they stick to rigidly which is key to their success.
I thought the same. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of tactical flexibility. If Donegal control the tempo, turn you over and counter in waves, they beat you. If you control the tempo on them, you have a chance.
Population at the last census:
Mayo 130,638
Kerry 145,502.
Donegal 161,137.
Dublin 1,270,603
and ...
Quote
"Talent is over-rated, I would have always stressed that from a young age,"
"Hard work will always beat talent.
"Some lads just haven't been able to put it in, for millions of different reasons. A lot of the guys who I grew up with were superstars when they were 18 but are nowhere to be seen now.
"Sometimes it's the luck of the break, sometimes it's attitude. I always had the highest expectations for myself and you always should. I always backed myself in everything I did. It's not a cockiness. It's just a sort of a self belief thing."
Very good post Wobbler. Agree with all of it. I believe that our win in 2008 contained a lot of those elements. After an apparent season ending defeat in Newry something clicked amongst the group. A cathartic moment where the whole team went 100% after Sam. The team became greater than the sum of it's parts and players who were on the fringes (Penrose, T Mc Guigan, McCullagh etc) dragged us home. IMO, the whole beard thing, whilst appearing silly, served a purpose in not only uniting the team but the county as a whole.
Quote from: bcarrier on September 01, 2014, 02:36:01 PM
Population at the last census:
Mayo 130,638
Kerry 145,502.
Donegal 161,137.
Dublin 1,270,603
Interesting. I didn't realize they had such a population advantage on us.
The odds are getting more and more stacked against us as we go on.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:33:44 PM
I thought the same. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of tactical flexibility. If Donegal control the tempo, turn you over and counter in waves, they beat you. If you control the tempo on them, you have a chance.
But do you not think the introduction of Christy Toye and when he made the change 10 mins before half-time, affected the flow (tempo) of the game?
Quote from: bcarrier on September 01, 2014, 02:36:01 PM
Population at the last census:
Mayo 130,638
Kerry 145,502.
Donegal 161,137.
Dublin 1,270,603
and ...
Quote
"Talent is over-rated, I would have always stressed that from a young age,"
"Hard work will always beat talent.
"Some lads just haven't been able to put it in, for millions of different reasons. A lot of the guys who I grew up with were superstars when they were 18 but are nowhere to be seen now.
"Sometimes it's the luck of the break, sometimes it's attitude. I always had the highest expectations for myself and you always should. I always backed myself in everything I did. It's not a cockiness. It's just a sort of a self belief thing."
I don't think so. Talent can get away with a lot of stuff.
Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.
Just a substitution? I thought it was very clever, Toye upped the intensity at a time when Donegal had just weathered the storm, championship minutes are those minutes before and after half-time and it really put the doubts in Dublin's minds before half-time.
Sorry, I phrased that wrong. In my mind, a like for like substitution is one way of changing the game, but to be tactically flexible implies you have a few different approaches up your sleeve and can adapt the gameplan as required. I'm not sure I've seen that from Donegal. Of course the art of making good substitutions is important too.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.
Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.
They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.
Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.
My point is that he has the ability to make these changes and the switch is not like for like but a more subtle change , such as how he deploys Murphy at different times during a game.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.
Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.
They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.
Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.
Indiana
Did you think 2 back to back all Irelands was realistic for the dubs ? Or was the result expected?
I thought the tactic Donegal employed on their own kickouts in the 2nd half was a masterstroke. They bunched the whole shebang just in Donegal's half (Except for maybe the 2 lads up front) and then Durcan bombed it over them all for Gallagher to run forward and flick it on to 2 or 3 runners (Usually McHugh) who then had acres to run into... they had more than just the 3 goal chances yesterday and this gave them the platform to do it.
McGuinness gambled that Dublin would go man to man with all his players and took advantage of it when it happened making the Dubs HB line vacate their roles. It didn't happen so much in the first half so I wonder was this something they had a plan for but then executed in the 2nd half??
Fascinating game that was yesterday!!
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2014, 03:29:15 PM
Did you think 2 back to back all Irelands was realistic for the dubs ? Or was the result expected?
Of course back to back All Irelands was a realistic possibility for the Dubs. Had two of their three first-half goaling chances been taken (as they were against Monaghan) we could be discussing a different result today. One result (no matter how dramatic or traumatic) doesn't transform a great team (which this Dublin team is) into anything less than that.
Come on you boys in blue.
The turning point in the game yesterday in my view was toye coming on. Toye's first run saw him attack mccarthy and run directly at dublin. They were opened right up straight away and this paved the way. I wonder did mcguinness intentionally put him on for this after seeing the game unfold?
Donegal last year were a tired team. The effort they put in to get to the fitness levels they have is immense. THey have a smaller top quality playing pool than dublin and probably mayo too so this hurts them more.
The collective awareness thing i think is key. The tyrone teams of the noughties that won had an understanding that to me was rarely if ever seen before. Lots of games in qualifiers helped this i think in 05 and 08.
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal. Other multiple AI winning managers like O'Dwyer, Harte, Boylan and O'Connor had way more talented individual players and what McGuinness has achieved is remarkable. To win it once was a brilliant achievement but to regain the title would be the icing on the cake. However I believe that Kerry will present a very stiff test for Donegal. Donegal struggled most against Armagh and a defensive system. Kerry play a similar way under Fitzmaurice and Donegal will not be able to counter attack with the same devastation as they did yesterday.
The 2 semi finals were so enthralling because of the contrast in styles between the 2 teams in each match. It was noticeable that the 2 defensive teams won the day, however no such contrast will exist in the final and I will not be expecting a classic.
Back to OP...
was it the time he spent in Tralee
http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/sport/soccer/kerry-gold-inspired-mcguinness-1-4114709
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2014, 04:09:20 PM
The turning point in the game yesterday in my view was toye coming on. Toye's first run saw him attack mccarthy and run directly at dublin. They were opened right up straight away and this paved the way. I wonder did mcguinness intentionally put him on for this after seeing the game unfold?
Donegal last year were a tired team. The effort they put in to get to the fitness levels they have is immense. THey have a smaller top quality playing pool than dublin and probably mayo too so this hurts them more.
The collective awareness thing i think is key. The tyrone teams of the noughties that won had an understanding that to me was rarely if ever seen before. Lots of games in qualifiers helped this i think in 05 and 08.
Of course it was intentional (which is not to say it was guaranteed to work, but what substitutions are?) That running and ball carrying has always been Toye's primary strength from when he announced himself in a minor game against Fermanagh in the early 2000s. Plus, David Walsh was having little impact on the game, which was not too surprising as he has not featured very much this season and is a much smaller man than Toye. I'd say the plan was to make the switch later in the game, but circumstances dictated otherwise.
Its the bottles of football special they drink in the hills.
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2014, 04:09:20 PM
The turning point in the game yesterday in my view was toye coming on. Toye's first run saw him attack mccarthy and run directly at dublin. They were opened right up straight away and this paved the way. I wonder did mcguinness intentionally put him on for this after seeing the game unfold?
Donegal last year were a tired team. The effort they put in to get to the fitness levels they have is immense. THey have a smaller top quality playing pool than dublin and probably mayo too so this hurts them more.
The collective awareness thing i think is key. The tyrone teams of the noughties that won had an understanding that to me was rarely if ever seen before. Lots of games in qualifiers helped this i think in 05 and 08.
Of course it was intentional (which is not to say it was guaranteed to work, but what substitutions are?) That running and ball carrying has always been Toye's primary strength from when he announced himself in a minor game against Fermanagh in the early 2000s. Plus, David Walsh was having little impact on the game, which was not too surprising as he has not featured very much this season and is a much smaller man than Toye. I'd say the plan was to make the switch later in the game, but circumstances dictated otherwise.
I guess what i mean is did he put him on because he thought dublin were vulnerable to toye running at them or did he just put him on because walsh wasn't having a great game? Who knows.
I think toye is a very good footballer but i don't think he's usually quite as direct as that.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 01, 2014, 03:18:38 PM
My point is that he has the ability to make these changes and the switch is not like for like but a more subtle change , such as how he deploys Murphy at different times during a game.
I don't see how anyone can doubt McGuinness' sideline abilities. Some did wonder whether Rory Gallagher was the brains behind in-games switches and if, therefore, Donegal would suffer in his absence, but that has not been the case, as was shown with the Toye switch yesterday. With the exception of the games against Monaghan and Mayo last year, the changes have always worked. Indeed, in the final two years ago, we were struggling towards half time and playing somewhat erratically, but once we got to half time three points in front, I was pretty sure we'd see it through once McGuinness had his say, and that indeed was the case as we gradually eased back into a six point lead.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2014, 04:32:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2014, 04:09:20 PM
The turning point in the game yesterday in my view was toye coming on. Toye's first run saw him attack mccarthy and run directly at dublin. They were opened right up straight away and this paved the way. I wonder did mcguinness intentionally put him on for this after seeing the game unfold?
Donegal last year were a tired team. The effort they put in to get to the fitness levels they have is immense. THey have a smaller top quality playing pool than dublin and probably mayo too so this hurts them more.
The collective awareness thing i think is key. The tyrone teams of the noughties that won had an understanding that to me was rarely if ever seen before. Lots of games in qualifiers helped this i think in 05 and 08.
Of course it was intentional (which is not to say it was guaranteed to work, but what substitutions are?) That running and ball carrying has always been Toye's primary strength from when he announced himself in a minor game against Fermanagh in the early 2000s. Plus, David Walsh was having little impact on the game, which was not too surprising as he has not featured very much this season and is a much smaller man than Toye. I'd say the plan was to make the switch later in the game, but circumstances dictated otherwise.
I guess what i mean is did he put him on because he thought dublin were vulnerable to toye running at them or did he just put him on because walsh wasn't having a great game? Who knows.
I think toye is a very good footballer but i don't think he's usually quite as direct as that.
Yes, he is. Maybe it hasn't been so evident with his injury problems and occasional midfield deployment in recent years, but he built his reputation as a power runner/scorer.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:33:44 PM
I thought the same. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of tactical flexibility. If Donegal control the tempo, turn you over and counter in waves, they beat you. If you control the tempo on them, you have a chance.
Donegal getting tighter on the in form Dublin players, Flynn and Connolly was key. After the first 25 minutes we saw nothing from the pair of them again apart from a wonder point from Connolly in the second half. Would have loved to be there yesterday to see it first hand.
I'm not criticising either btw. In big games subs can just be lucky or be reactive to how the game pans out. Toye's introduction was the biggest factor in donegal winning in my view and i just wonder which it was.
When mcguinness has had donegal firing generally he hasn't needed to amend game plans as they've steam rolled teams. Yesterday was slightly different.
How he plans for o'donoghue will be interesting. Neil mcgee is made for marking donaghy so he shouldn't have to think too much there.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2014, 04:40:16 PM
I'm not criticising either btw. In big games subs can just be lucky or be reactive to how the game pans out. Toye's introduction was the biggest factor in donegal winning in my view and i just wonder which it was.
When mcguinness has had donegal firing generally he hasn't needed to amend game plans as they've steam rolled teams. Yesterday was slightly different.
How he plans for o'donoghue will be interesting. Neil mcgee is made for marking donaghy so he shouldn't have to think too much there.
As many had said I thought Toye give them the difference. I don't think they changed the plan but he, either by experience or on instruction, carried the ball through Dublin at pace where others where failing. Just before he came on, Donegal broke a Dublin attack down. The ball came out and was been carried down the Cusack side. We were sitting in Davin end and the brother said to me that Donegal looked shattered. You could see about 6 of them struggling out from defence, heads down, and in no position to support the ball. It broke down fairly quick and they turned and jogged back into position.
Toye give them an energy when they needed it and took pressure off the defence. Up to that, McGuinness tried a few things with Gallagher and Murphy swapping in and out.
That ten minutes before HT was massive. How Dublin went into HT behind must have been a serious blow to them.
It appears the players buy in fully to what he is saying.
The have trust and faith in what he says. This allows the players to have great confidence in their play as they know Jim's way will work.
They play with little doubt.
A squad with belief, full of confidence, working together is near impossible to beat. Especially when you have some great players in that squad.
I would say removing the doubt from how last year ended and how the league went this year was his biggest job.
Most teams or players have some doubts in their heads, I don't know what Donegal's are at the moment, thanks to Jim they don't appear to have any.
Kerry will also be full of confidence, but are all their players free of doubt?
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.
Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.
They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.
Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.
Armagh are the last side to win the All Ireland from playing their league football in division two would be another feather on Jim McGuinness cap if he matches that achievement.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.
Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.
They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.
Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.
Indiana
Who would you have as the 3/4 "very average" players & in what way would you see them as very average.
I ask because some of the "lesser lights" on the Donegal team are the very players who week in week out produce 8/10 performances but they are not flashy in the way that they do it. For me, they would be, McGrath, Thompson, McLoone & Kavanagh.
These are not flashy players but nether are they "very average". Very average does not get a starting place on this Donegal team.
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
In fairness they fared alright against them two years ago and Kerry had Cooper back then also.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 01, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.
Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
FFS must be a lot of very average footballers about so, if Higgins is the benchmark. ::)
How many footballers in the country can man-mark like Higgins?
Lacey could, before switching to centre back. Not many others.
I wouldn't swap Neil McGee for any other full back.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 01, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.
Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.
You need a festival in Killarney for it.
Or Tralee.
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 01, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.
Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.
You need a festival in Killarney for it.
Or Tralee.
No, everybody in Kerry knows how good he is after his spell down here. In fact we would like to think we played some, small, humble role in making Jim what he is today. I think a more countrywide campaign is needed to get the message out to others. Perhaps the Celtic connection could be leveraged more ?
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 01, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.
Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.
You need a festival in Killarney for it.
Or Tralee.
No, everybody in Kerry knows how good he is after his spell down here. In fact we would like to think we played some, small, humble role in making Jim what he is today. I think a more countrywide campaign is needed to get the message out to others. Perhaps the Celtic connection could be leveraged more ?
This is probably the key to the whole thing.
Would Donegal in another final if McGuinness hadn't immersed himself in the Kerry traditions?
You taught him everything he taught us. You've probably tonnes more knowledge to impart!
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 01, 2014, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:33:44 PM
I thought the same. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of tactical flexibility. If Donegal control the tempo, turn you over and counter in waves, they beat you. If you control the tempo on them, you have a chance.
Donegal getting tighter on the in form Dublin players, Flynn and Connolly was key. After the first 25 minutes we saw nothing from the pair of them again apart from a wonder point from Connolly in the second half. Would have loved to be there yesterday to see it first hand.
Specsavers I suggest. You didn't watch the game too much. They never really got to grips with them. Connolly had four players marking him in the second half.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on September 01, 2014, 05:19:58 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.
Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.
They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.
Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.
Indiana
Who would you have as the 3/4 "very average" players & in what way would you see them as very average.
I ask because some of the "lesser lights" on the Donegal team are the very players who week in week out produce 8/10 performances but they are not flashy in the way that they do it. For me, they would be, McGrath, Thompson, McLoone & Kavanagh.
These are not flashy players but nether are they "very average". Very average does not get a starting place on this Donegal team.
All teams have them including Dublin.
Kerry supporters must be worried about this one though. Flashbacks to Tyrone and the smothering defence must be enough for a few sleepless nights leading up to the final.
Thompson, Kavanagh and Walsh are average footballers.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 01, 2014, 06:53:06 PM
Thompson, Kavanagh and Walsh are average footballers.
Thompson is underrated, as is Kavanagh, but while they may not be star names, they are well worth their spot on an intercounty team and certainly not below average.
Lads, an 'average' inter county footballer is still a bloody good player. And a good player on a great team can do a seriously important job.
Ulster is very democratic, everyone thinks they are good as the next place. McGuinness saw Tyrone and Armagh having success, while a bigger county Donegal with a good players was having no success. He had the intellect to reflect on the methods of other teams and come up with a winning formula for his own team.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 01, 2014, 06:53:06 PM
Thompson, Kavanagh and Walsh are average footballers.
Whatever about Walsh & possibly Kavanagh, to call Thompson average is unfair in the extreme. Thompson wouldn't make the Dublin team simply because of the way Dublin play, but for Donegal he is a huge player & his attributes suit us perfectly.
Many's a player could do great things with a ball but some of the best weren't necessarily the most stylish, Francie Bellew of Armagh springs to mind.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 01, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.
Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.
I think he gets plenty of credit alright but The full extent will depend on the result of the final. If Kerry win it then Fitzmaurice will be flavour of the month. Fitzmaurice himself has done a remarkable job in bringing Kerry to the brink of an AI title. He has tailored a defensive system to suit the players at his disposal. Individually Kerry are far short of the team of the 2000's but they play to their strengths by getting the defensive shield in place and leaving oceans of space in front of O'Donoghue, Geaney/Donaghy. To date they have not met a defensive team to nullify Kerry's strengths and they seem to have a mental block against Ulster teams in big games so it will be enthralling to see can they overcome their Ulster hoodoo in the final.
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 01, 2014, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 01, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.
Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.
You need a festival in Killarney for it.
Or Tralee.
a "jim mcguiness is the greatest manager of all time hurdle" for the listowel races ?
Jimmy deserves every piece of credit he gets. I do believe he uses the media to play all sorts of games and people lap it up but sure if he gets away with it so be it. Its part and parcel.
Donegal will win the final comfortably. I really don't think Kerry have a prayer
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:41:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
FFS must be a lot of very average footballers about so, if Higgins is the benchmark. ::)
How many footballers in the country can man-mark like Higgins?
Lacey could, before switching to centre back. Not many others.
I wouldn't swap Neil McGee for any other full back.
The day of the individual man-marker is gone and has been replaced by 'the defensive system' and there were NO average footballers playing in the AI semi's last weekend. Jim McG has organised a bunch of player to produce a 'professional performance' rotating from defence to attack in about 8 secs to create goal and point scoring opportunies. The Final will be fascinating and I doubt if the 'referee' will be as easy on Kerry as C O'R was in their game against Mayo. Donegal should shade it with their mental intensity frustrating Kerry's only attacking option of playing direct diagonal ball into Donaghy and O'Donaghue. They also have to eliminate the 'hard work' of the tireless Donagha Walsh. That said Ryan McHugh will also have to be man - marked who does Mike Sheehy think will do that job for the Kingdom - I think he has been outstanding this year. Will be a fantastic conest.
Quote from: Real Talk on September 01, 2014, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:41:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
FFS must be a lot of very average footballers about so, if Higgins is the benchmark. ::)
How many footballers in the country can man-mark like Higgins?
Lacey could, before switching to centre back. Not many others.
I wouldn't swap Neil McGee for any other full back.
The day of the individual man-marker is gone and has been replaced by 'the defensive system' and there were NO average footballers playing in the AI semi's last weekend. Jim McG has organised a bunch of player to produce a 'professional performance' rotating from defence to attack in about 8 secs to create goal and point scoring opportunies. The Final will be fascinating and I doubt if the 'referee' will be as easy on Kerry as C O'R was in their game against Mayo. Donegal should shade it with their mental intensity frustrating Kerry's only attacking option of playing direct diagonal ball into Donaghy and O'Donaghue. They also have to eliminate the 'hard work' of the tireless Donagha Walsh. That said Ryan McHugh will also have to be man - marked who does Mike Sheehy think will do that job for the Kingdom - I think he has been outstanding this year. Will be a fantastic conest.
Kerry will be well prepared and are far better setup then us. They'll not fear them and in 2012 only for a lucky goal Kerry probably would have beaten them.
To beat Donegal you need to shut down their runners from the back - Mc Glynn being one, Lacey the other and Magee likes the old charge too.
I liken to what Tyrone used to do with Ricey and a few others. step across them , run across their line etc but whatever you do the points these lads get and runs they make are game changers. We were desperately naive on that score. I suspect the likes of Donncha Walsh, Maher and Johnny Buckley will be a hell of a lot effective in stopping them then we ever were.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on September 01, 2014, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:41:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
FFS must be a lot of very average footballers about so, if Higgins is the benchmark. ::)
How many footballers in the country can man-mark like Higgins?
Lacey could, before switching to centre back. Not many others.
I wouldn't swap Neil McGee for any other full back.
The day of the individual man-marker is gone and has been replaced by 'the defensive system' and there were NO average footballers playing in the AI semi's last weekend. Jim McG has organised a bunch of player to produce a 'professional performance' rotating from defence to attack in about 8 secs to create goal and point scoring opportunies. The Final will be fascinating and I doubt if the 'referee' will be as easy on Kerry as C O'R was in their game against Mayo. Donegal should shade it with their mental intensity frustrating Kerry's only attacking option of playing direct diagonal ball into Donaghy and O'Donaghue. They also have to eliminate the 'hard work' of the tireless Donagha Walsh. That said Ryan McHugh will also have to be man - marked who does Mike Sheehy think will do that job for the Kingdom - I think he has been outstanding this year. Will be a fantastic conest.
Kerry will be well prepared and are far better setup then us. They'll not fear them and in 2012 only for a lucky goal Kerry probably would have beaten them.
To beat Donegal you need to shut down their runners from the back - Mc Glynn being one, Lacey the other and Magee likes the old charge too.
I liken to what Tyrone used to do with Ricey and a few others. step across them , run across their line etc but whatever you do the points these lads get and runs they make are game changers. We were desperately naive on that score. I suspect the likes of Donncha Walsh, Maher and Johnny Buckley will be a hell of a lot effective in stopping them then we ever were.
Ya wha?
Donegal completely dismantled Kerry tactically and physically in that game. It was Kerry's ineffectual shot in anger at the end (a goal) that gave the scoreline an unrealistically tight gloss. Kerry looked a sad sight in that game and as Donegal begun to realise they had nothing to fear they grew in confidence as the game developed. And that Kerry team was better than this year's version.
It's advantage Donegal, Kerry's game-plan now is basically Donegal lite with less talented players. Still could be a classic, mind.
Quote from: Syferus on September 01, 2014, 10:57:29 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on September 01, 2014, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2014, 05:41:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
FFS must be a lot of very average footballers about so, if Higgins is the benchmark. ::)
How many footballers in the country can man-mark like Higgins?
Lacey could, before switching to centre back. Not many others.
I wouldn't swap Neil McGee for any other full back.
The day of the individual man-marker is gone and has been replaced by 'the defensive system' and there were NO average footballers playing in the AI semi's last weekend. Jim McG has organised a bunch of player to produce a 'professional performance' rotating from defence to attack in about 8 secs to create goal and point scoring opportunies. The Final will be fascinating and I doubt if the 'referee' will be as easy on Kerry as C O'R was in their game against Mayo. Donegal should shade it with their mental intensity frustrating Kerry's only attacking option of playing direct diagonal ball into Donaghy and O'Donaghue. They also have to eliminate the 'hard work' of the tireless Donagha Walsh. That said Ryan McHugh will also have to be man - marked who does Mike Sheehy think will do that job for the Kingdom - I think he has been outstanding this year. Will be a fantastic conest.
Kerry will be well prepared and are far better setup then us. They'll not fear them and in 2012 only for a lucky goal Kerry probably would have beaten them.
To beat Donegal you need to shut down their runners from the back - Mc Glynn being one, Lacey the other and Magee likes the old charge too.
I liken to what Tyrone used to do with Ricey and a few others. step across them , run across their line etc but whatever you do the points these lads get and runs they make are game changers. We were desperately naive on that score. I suspect the likes of Donncha Walsh, Maher and Johnny Buckley will be a hell of a lot effective in stopping them then we ever were.
Ya wha?
Donegal completely dismantled Kerry tactically and physically in that game. It was Kerry's ineffectual shot in anger at the end (a goal) that gave the scoreline an unrealistically tight gloss. Kerry looked a sad sight in that game and as Donegal begun to realise they had to fear they grew in confidence as the game developed.
It's advantage Donegal, Kerry's game-plan now is basically Donegal lite with less talented players. Still could be a classic, mind.
It funny how these less talented players are in an AI Final. I wouldn't mind having a few of them.
If you think a Kerryman is going to be cacking it playing a Donegal man in the final you're sadly mistaken regardless of whatever yerras come out of them.
Its too close to call IMO. Killian Young is a huge addition for the Kerry defence. Donaghy gives them the perfect outlet.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that Kerry will have an inferiority complex playing Donegal in the final, in fact that would be laughable. However the old chestnut of struggling against northern teams will be resurfaced in the build up to this game. In terms of talent I don't think there is much to choose between the 2 sides and I'd expect it to be a very close encounter. Two very good managers who put a big emphasis on their tactical approach, this game could be won and lost on the line.
They didn't have to play Donegal to get there, if they did they might well not be there.
David Moran is the obvious revelation for Kerry. A key position that looked quite pedestrian heading into the AISFs is suddenly a strength. If Kerry don't get the dominance in the middle they did against Mayo they will be in a lot of trouble against Donegal.
It has nothing to do with cracking either, Donegal are just the sort of team Kerry have had trouble dealing with even when they had teams littered with all-time greats. Ironically Donegal had a lot of trouble with another 'Donegal lite' in Armagh in the AIQF and Kerry have better players than Armagh do.
It's going to be a fascinating final. Both teams playing to their best would mean Donegal win - Murphy is everything Donaghy is and so much more, the Donegal FB line match up very well with Donaghy, Kerry's doesn't match up well at all with Murphy - but football is never that simple.
Quote from: Syferus on September 01, 2014, 11:08:24 PM
They didn't have to play Donegal to get there, if they did they might well not be there.
David Moran is the obvious revelation for Kerry. A key position that looked quite pedestrian heading into the AISFs is suddenly a strength. If Kerry don't get the dominance in the middle they did against Mayo they will be in a lot of trouble against Donegal.
It has nothing to do with cracking either, Donegal are just the sort of team Kerry have had trouble dealing with even when they had teams littered with all-time greats. Ironically Donegal had a lot of trouble with another 'Donegal lite' in Armagh in the AIQF and Kerry have better players than Armagh do.
It's going to be a fascinating final. Both teams playing to their best would mean Donegal win - Murphy is everything Donaghy is and so much more, the Donegal FB line match up very well with Donaghy, Kerry's doesn't match up well with Murphy - but football is never that simple.
You're in nostalgic mode. This isn't a Kerry team littered with stars its the sum of the parts that make this Kerry team.
Which makes them the perfect final opponents for Donegal. No flash, just graft. Donegal will be favourites and they'll struggle to reproduce yesterday.
Kerry are very like Kerry in 2009 IMO- they've found their team as the championship has progressed and are improving with each game.
Dangerous in my view. Donegal will need a repeat of yesterday to win.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 11:19:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 01, 2014, 11:08:24 PM
They didn't have to play Donegal to get there, if they did they might well not be there.
David Moran is the obvious revelation for Kerry. A key position that looked quite pedestrian heading into the AISFs is suddenly a strength. If Kerry don't get the dominance in the middle they did against Mayo they will be in a lot of trouble against Donegal.
It has nothing to do with cracking either, Donegal are just the sort of team Kerry have had trouble dealing with even when they had teams littered with all-time greats. Ironically Donegal had a lot of trouble with another 'Donegal lite' in Armagh in the AIQF and Kerry have better players than Armagh do.
It's going to be a fascinating final. Both teams playing to their best would mean Donegal win - Murphy is everything Donaghy is and so much more, the Donegal FB line match up very well with Donaghy, Kerry's doesn't match up well with Murphy - but football is never that simple.
You're in nostalgic mode. This isn't a Kerry team littered with stars its the sum of the parts that make this Kerry team.
Which makes them the perfect final opponents for Donegal. No flash, just graft. Donegal will be favourites and they'll struggle to reproduce yesterday.
Kerry are very like Kerry in 2009 IMO- they've found their team as the championship has progressed and are improving with each game.
Dangerous in my view. Donegal will need a repeat of yesterday to win.
A repeat of Sunday's performance would absolutely crush Kerry. They don't need a repeat that to beat a cagey Kerry team, to be honest. Just need to beat what's in front of them and that's a defensive team with a good work-rate and a bit if a shoddy FB line.
Kerry are obviously much more Donegal than old school Kerry these days so in many ways they're going to end up playing Donegal at the game they patented. That's never a good start. I'd fancy Donegal to hold out Kerry if they get a lead, I'm less sure Kerry could produce the sort of shut-down game Donegal can if they get in front.
I also don't see either team going in as serious favourites - it'll be near enough even, particularly with Kerry's tradition tempering anyone who fancies Donegal.
McGuinness's success is also due to his somewhat idiosyncratic & old fashioned view of the world.
He sees everything in black & white, you are either with us or against us, in or out & anyone who threatens the edifice he has built is discarded. Alex Ferguson did the same thin at Man Utd & I'd say Jim has learned a lot from his way of doing things.
But what seperates him is that he is the living embodiment of his principles. Words like honesty, effort, belief, trust, commitment are more than just words to him. His commitment is total, his confidence unwavering & he transmits this to everyone in his sphere.
He isn't perfect, no one is but there aren't many like him & we are lucky to have him
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 11:19:28 PM
You're in nostalgic mode. This isn't a Kerry team littered with stars its the sum of the parts that make this Kerry team.
Which makes them the perfect final opponents for Donegal. No flash, just graft. Donegal will be favourites and they'll struggle to reproduce yesterday.
Kerry are very like Kerry in 2009 IMO- they've found their team as the championship has progressed and are improving with each game.
Dangerous in my view. Donegal will need a repeat of yesterday to win.
I agree with this. Donegal would have been well up for another crack at Mayo and I think would have beat them well. Kerry will hopefully have too much for them though. They certainly won't panic like we did towards the end of yesterday's game.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 02, 2014, 12:29:05 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 11:19:28 PM
You're in nostalgic mode. This isn't a Kerry team littered with stars its the sum of the parts that make this Kerry team.
Which makes them the perfect final opponents for Donegal. No flash, just graft. Donegal will be favourites and they'll struggle to reproduce yesterday.
Kerry are very like Kerry in 2009 IMO- they've found their team as the championship has progressed and are improving with each game.
Dangerous in my view. Donegal will need a repeat of yesterday to win.
I don't agree that we are likely to see a repeat performance of yesterday from Donegal in the final.
Donegal played the way they did yesterday because they were playing Dublin, Kerry are a different animal altogether with a different more traditional style & Donegal will adapt their approach to cope with the new challenge.
One idea would be to just put six men round Donaghy but I'd say McGuinness will be a bit more subtle than that!!
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 01, 2014, 02:36:29 PM
Very good post Wobbler. Agree with all of it. I believe that our win in 2008 contained a lot of those elements. After an apparent season ending defeat in Newry something clicked amongst the group. A cathartic moment where the whole team went 100% after Sam. The team became greater than the sum of it's parts and players who were on the fringes (Penrose, T Mc Guigan, McCullagh etc) dragged us home. IMO, the whole beard thing, whilst appearing silly, served a purpose in not only uniting the team but the county as a whole.
A whole county embraced their ugliness for the greater good
Quote from: INDIANA on September 01, 2014, 06:19:12 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 01, 2014, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 01, 2014, 02:33:44 PM
I thought the same. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of tactical flexibility. If Donegal control the tempo, turn you over and counter in waves, they beat you. If you control the tempo on them, you have a chance.
Donegal getting tighter on the in form Dublin players, Flynn and Connolly was key. After the first 25 minutes we saw nothing from the pair of them again apart from a wonder point from Connolly in the second half. Would have loved to be there yesterday to see it first hand.
Specsavers I suggest. You didn't watch the game too much. They never really got to grips with them. Connolly had four players marking him in the second half.
Never really got to grips with them? Can you outline their contributions in the second half then apart from the wonder Connolly point?
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
Screenexile - you must have been quite a player or maybe still are but to suggest that the McGees are average is crazy. How did the much vaunted Dublin inside line get on against them over the 70 mins (not 15 or 20). I seem to recall them snuffing out various inside forwards of reputation over the last 4 years from inside Ulster and beyond. Yes, of course they have a system in pace in front of them allowing them a luxury but how many times are they beat to the ball, how many times are they dummied, how many times are they beat in the air.
I remember from Sunday 1 time in 2nd half, O gara was 5 yards in front of one of them but still didn't win the ball - I think it was Eamon got the hand in at the vital time and some other team mate picked up the loose ball - that is their job. Man markers don't necessarily have to be on the ball - their job is to deny the forward the ball ( like your fellow county men of yesteryear McKeever and Scullion). In addition to this McGee was involved deep into Dublin territory for the 2nd Donegal goal and displayed composure to wait until the right time to pass the ball to the supporting Thompson.
I think they are both great footballers who sacrifice a lot for the team good - I believe they are actually better players than they appear due to their marking roles but could also play elsewhere on the team but they are the best at what they do so are prepared to play for that role for the 'greater team benefit'.
By the way, I am not from the Hills so no bias involved here just my honest opinion which maybe right or wrong
Clearly Celtic were impressed with him back in July so his stock must have risen even further now. I wonder how much of his experience/connections/resources in the professional game is he able to leverage for Donegal.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/celtic-boss-ronnie-deila-well-be-using-jim-mcguinness-more-and-more-30412688.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/celtic-boss-ronnie-deila-well-be-using-jim-mcguinness-more-and-more-30412688.html)
QuoteNew Celtic manager Ronnie Deila is planning to increase the Donegal manager's influence and is determined to get inside the heads of the players."We already have a sports psychologist in Jim McGuinnes, so I want to bring him in even more," Deila told the Daily Record."All my staff's knowledge is going to be used, I can't do it all."Of course, I learn a lot because I hire fantastic people around me but I want all my staff to be a specialist in something and then you need to be even better."I want the best scientists in the world. They have to have experience and learn but I also have to go out to seek new knowledge, look at what's happening on the internet, go away on trips to see what the best are doing because then I will bring it back. In the end we will grow as a staff in our knowledge and the players will adapt."I'm very curious. Someone asked me if I have a lot of energy on the pitch but I get energy from learning and I think. I'm going to try to be a very good role model."Deila plans to utilise all the backroom staff at his disposal to get the best from his players."There are more people here but every role we have I also had at my former club," he added."I used a lot of money on my staff because if you have a player but you can't develop him it's no use."So your staff must get the end product, they have to have the knowledge in every way."Someone on psychology, mental training, someone on finishing, somebody on recovery and everything about injury prevention."It's like a library and you need all the books and the players need to take the books they need. The players have to be curious, they have to want to learn, they have to want to get better."
Quote from: Mikhailov on September 02, 2014, 09:40:21 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 01, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.
They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.
Screenexile - you must have been quite a player or maybe still are but to suggest that the McGees are average is crazy. How did the much vaunted Dublin inside line get on against them over the 70 mins (not 15 or 20). I seem to recall them snuffing out various inside forwards of reputation over the last 4 years from inside Ulster and beyond. Yes, of course they have a system in pace in front of them allowing them a luxury but how many times are they beat to the ball, how many times are they dummied, how many times are they beat in the air.
I remember from Sunday 1 time in 2nd half, O gara was 5 yards in front of one of them but still didn't win the ball - I think it was Eamon got the hand in at the vital time and some other team mate picked up the loose ball - that is their job. Man markers don't necessarily have to be on the ball - their job is to deny the forward the ball ( like your fellow county men of yesteryear McKeever and Scullion). In addition to this McGee was involved deep into Dublin territory for the 2nd Donegal goal and displayed composure to wait until the right time to pass the ball to the supporting Thompson.
I think they are both great footballers who sacrifice a lot for the team good - I believe they are actually better players than they appear due to their marking roles but could also play elsewhere on the team but they are the best at what they do so are prepared to play for that role for the 'greater team benefit'.
By the way, I am not from the Hills so no bias involved here just my honest opinion which maybe right or wrong
Ah here all I'm saying is that in if it were old school football man on man they wouldn't be as lauded as they are. Don't get me wrong what they've achieved is fantastic and I don't doubt they're in serious physical shape but the point remains the system Donegal have in place means they have a lot more protection than a McKeever\Scullion\Matt Gallagher would have had in their time.
They'll still have 2 All Irelands though I think so fair play to them.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2ujmcd0.jpg)
Quote from: Dont Matter on September 02, 2014, 10:09:38 PM
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2ujmcd0.jpg)
;D
Reminds me of the Rafatolla from Liverpool 's champions League runs.