Why is Jim McGuinness such a good manager ?

[imtommygunn]

The turning point in the game yesterday in my view was toye coming on. Toye's first run saw him attack mccarthy and run directly at dublin. They were opened right up straight away and this paved the way. I wonder did mcguinness intentionally put him on for this after seeing the game unfold?

Donegal last year were a tired team. The effort they put in to get to the fitness levels they have is immense. THey have a smaller top quality playing pool than dublin and probably mayo too so this hurts them more.

The collective awareness thing i think is key. The tyrone teams of the noughties that won had an understanding that to me was rarely if ever seen before. Lots of games in qualifiers helped this i think in 05 and 08.

Of course it was intentional (which is not to say it was guaranteed to work, but what substitutions are?) That running and ball carrying has always been Toye's primary strength from when he announced himself in a minor game against Fermanagh in the early 2000s. Plus, David Walsh was having little impact on the game, which was not too surprising as he has not featured very much this season and is a much smaller man than Toye. I'd say the plan was to make the switch later in the game, but circumstances dictated otherwise.

I guess what i mean is did he put him on because he thought dublin were vulnerable to toye running at them or did he just put him on because walsh wasn't having a great game? Who knows.

I think toye is a very good footballer but i don't think he's usually quite as direct as that.

[J70]

My point is that he has the ability to make these changes and the switch is not like for like but a more subtle change , such as how he deploys Murphy at different times during a game.

I don't see how anyone can doubt McGuinness' sideline abilities. Some did wonder whether Rory Gallagher was the brains behind in-games switches and if, therefore, Donegal would suffer in his absence, but that has not been the case, as was shown with the Toye switch yesterday. With the exception of the games against Monaghan and Mayo last year, the changes have always worked. Indeed, in the final two years ago, we were struggling towards half time and playing somewhat erratically, but once we got to half time three points in front, I was pretty sure we'd see it through once McGuinness had his say, and that indeed was the case as we gradually eased back into a six point lead.

[J70]

The turning point in the game yesterday in my view was toye coming on. Toye's first run saw him attack mccarthy and run directly at dublin. They were opened right up straight away and this paved the way. I wonder did mcguinness intentionally put him on for this after seeing the game unfold?

Donegal last year were a tired team. The effort they put in to get to the fitness levels they have is immense. THey have a smaller top quality playing pool than dublin and probably mayo too so this hurts them more.

The collective awareness thing i think is key. The tyrone teams of the noughties that won had an understanding that to me was rarely if ever seen before. Lots of games in qualifiers helped this i think in 05 and 08.

Of course it was intentional (which is not to say it was guaranteed to work, but what substitutions are?) That running and ball carrying has always been Toye's primary strength from when he announced himself in a minor game against Fermanagh in the early 2000s. Plus, David Walsh was having little impact on the game, which was not too surprising as he has not featured very much this season and is a much smaller man than Toye. I'd say the plan was to make the switch later in the game, but circumstances dictated otherwise.

I guess what i mean is did he put him on because he thought dublin were vulnerable to toye running at them or did he just put him on because walsh wasn't having a great game? Who knows.

I think toye is a very good footballer but i don't think he's usually quite as direct as that.

Yes, he is. Maybe it hasn't been so evident with his injury problems and occasional midfield deployment in recent years, but he built his reputation as a power runner/scorer.

[Croí na hÉireann]

I thought the same. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of tactical flexibility. If Donegal control the tempo, turn you over and counter in waves, they beat you. If you control the tempo on them, you have a chance.

Donegal getting tighter on the in form Dublin players, Flynn and Connolly was key. After the first 25 minutes we saw nothing from the pair of them again apart from a wonder point from Connolly in the second half. Would have loved to be there yesterday to see it first hand.

[imtommygunn]

I'm not criticising either btw. In big games subs can just be lucky or be reactive to how the game pans out. Toye's introduction was the biggest factor in donegal winning in my view and i just wonder which it was.

When mcguinness has had donegal firing generally he hasn't needed to amend game plans as they've steam rolled teams. Yesterday was slightly different.

How he plans for o'donoghue will be interesting. Neil mcgee is made for marking donaghy so he shouldn't have to think too much there.

[Bingo]

I'm not criticising either btw. In big games subs can just be lucky or be reactive to how the game pans out. Toye's introduction was the biggest factor in donegal winning in my view and i just wonder which it was.

When mcguinness has had donegal firing generally he hasn't needed to amend game plans as they've steam rolled teams. Yesterday was slightly different.

How he plans for o'donoghue will be interesting. Neil mcgee is made for marking donaghy so he shouldn't have to think too much there.

As many had said I thought Toye give them the difference. I don't think they changed the plan but he, either by experience or on instruction, carried the ball through Dublin at pace where others where failing. Just before he came on, Donegal broke a Dublin attack down. The ball came out and was been carried down the Cusack side. We were sitting in Davin end and the brother said to me that Donegal looked shattered. You could see about 6 of them struggling out from defence, heads down, and in no position to support the ball. It broke down fairly quick and they turned and jogged back into position.

Toye give them an energy when they needed it and took pressure off the defence. Up to that, McGuinness tried a few things with Gallagher and Murphy swapping in and out.

That ten minutes before HT was massive. How Dublin went into HT behind must have been a serious blow to them.

[Stall the Bailer]

It appears the players buy in fully to what he is saying.
The have trust and faith in what he says. This allows the players to have great confidence in their play as they know Jim's way will work.
They play with little doubt. 

A squad with belief, full of confidence, working together is near impossible to beat.  Especially when you have some great players in that squad.

I would say removing the doubt from how last year ended and how the league went this year was his biggest job.
Most teams or players have some doubts in their heads, I don't know what Donegal's are at the moment, thanks to Jim they don't appear to have any.

Kerry will also be full of confidence, but are all their players free of doubt?

[BluestackBoy]

Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.

Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.

They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.

Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.

[Captain Obvious]

Armagh are the last side to win the All Ireland from playing their league football in division two would be another feather on Jim McGuinness cap if he matches that achievement.

[BluestackBoy]

Maybe, but that's just a substitution, rather than tactical flexibility. I'm not slagging him off by the way, Im very impressed with what they've managed to do this year, but I don't think it's through tactical variations, I think it's through collective imposition if their will on other teams.

Id agree . I've always maintained if you're behind against them with 20 mins to go you will lose.

They have 7/8 outstanding footballers but 3-4 very average ones as well but the system is so well drilled they always have a reference point for what they should be doing when the shit hits the fan.

Dublin had none of that yesterday. Empowering players is fine provided they can be trusted to make the right calls on the pitch. Ours made a lot of bad choices and consequently it fell apart as a result.

Indiana
Who would you have as the 3/4 "very average" players & in what way would you see them as very average.

I ask because some of the "lesser lights" on the Donegal team are the very players who week in week out produce 8/10 performances but they are not flashy in the way that they do it. For me, they would be, McGrath, Thompson,  McLoone  & Kavanagh.

These are not flashy players but nether are they "very average". Very average does not get a starting place on this Donegal team.

[screenexile]

The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.

They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.

[Captain Obvious]

The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.

They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.

In fairness they fared alright against them two years ago and Kerry had Cooper back then also.

[Mike Sheehy]

If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.

Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.

[J70]

The McGees are fairly average footballers. . . how would either of them fared in Keith Higgins' position on Saturday?? They'd have been off before half time. The system means that the forwards they are marking have no space and when they get the ball the McGee's can just pummel them until they overcarry or drop the ball.

They are highly effective at what they do but they are limited footballers.

FFS must be a lot of very average footballers about so, if Higgins is the benchmark. 

How many footballers in the country can man-mark like Higgins?

Lacey could, before switching to centre back. Not many others.

I wouldn't swap Neil McGee for any other full back.

[J70]

If Donegal manage to win the All Ireland for me there is no question that McGuinness is the best GAA football manager of all time. That may sound ott to some but its all weighed against the quality of players he had at his disposal.

Agreed. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for what he has managed to do and its about time that people were made aware of this fact. I think the next three weeks are an ideal time to publicize his achievements so as to inspire other counties.

You need a festival in Killarney for it.

Or Tralee.