http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2011/1101/tyrone_mcguiganb_jordanp.html (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2011/1101/tyrone_mcguiganb_jordanp.html)
Didn't see it anywhere else here.
Both class acts. They won't be replaced. Nothing more to be said.
Best of luck to them
Best wishes to both of them. They were good ones and will be hard to replace.
Belated rebuilding should begin in earnest now in Tyrone.
Best of luck to both men. Absolute legends in Tyrone football over the past 10+ years. Both will be very hard to replace in this current team, especially McGuigan. McGuigan in 03-05 was absolutely sublime for Tyrone, everything went through him and god only knows how Tyrone would have fared if he hadn't had the terrible injury's for a few years. Even when he came back he wasn't at his peak but you still seen how important he was to Tyrone. Thanks for the great years lads.
This could be the start of the real break up of the successful Tyrone side. McGuigan in particular was a class footballer at his peak who was very unfortunate with injury.
McGuigan was a more talented player than Phillip Jordan but it will be Jordan who will be missed more. Arguably Tyrone's best player of the last decade if you consider consistently playing near the top of his game. The best player in Tyrone's half-back line, he will be hugely missed. Hard to think how Tyrone will replace him and I'd say we'll see their game suffer because of it. I mean take a team's best half-back out of it and you seriously curtail their play (McKeever, Lacey, O'Se, Canty, Cahill).
McGuigan was robbed of a All-star in '05, easily Tyrone's best player in the final. Scored a peach of a goal against Galway in the championship one year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJoC6cBE7U0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJoC6cBE7U0) Wasn't the same since them dirty Dromore fcukers broke his leg. To the football purist he's a big loss, kinda player you could watch all day. Down would tell you he knew the dark arts too. ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8cRM4UQ5eU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8cRM4UQ5eU) but sometimes them things seperate winners and losers. Himself and Declan O'Sullivan were the best CHF's in Ireland since the 90's, maybe even back to Blaney. McDonald would get an honourable mention too.
There'a nothing that can be added about Brian that has not already been said before.
He was the proverbial conductor of the orchestra, pulling the strings all over the pitch and seemed to have eyes in the back of his head. Without Mc Guigan on board we'd not have had as many great days such was his infleunce.
In spite of horrible setbacks with njury, he came back and defied all advice. He was a joy to behold and for one who has witnessed him from his formative years, I can safely say that we'll never see the likes of hm again. A true legend of the game. Tyrone's loss will hopefully be Ardboe's gain.
As for Philip Jordan, definitely one of the greatesst half backs of his generation. There have been many great half backs as past 10-15 years - Jordan was right up near the top alongside Tomas and co.
When the chips were down, Jordan still fought to the end.
Best of luck in their retirements and hopefully both will have long careers with their clubs.
Important to remember how lucky we are to have had this one group of players in Tyrone. Even more important to remember how lucky we are that we are able to wish all the best to McGuigan in 2011 considering the injuries and setbacks that he has had.
Quote from: sheamy on November 01, 2011, 09:47:10 PM
Both class acts. They won't be replaced. Nothing more to be said.
Tyrone reverting to the 13-a-side version of the game then?
Fecking legends the both of them!
That Phillip Jordan is never done retiring!! ;)
McGuigan was some player, as a Derryman was hard to take all Tyrone's success in the noughties, but Mcguigan would be the one player in particular who you would have admired from those Tyrone teams.
Two giants in Tyrone football. Brian and Philip gave everything to the Tyrone cause and brought our county a lot of joy over the years, with minor, u21 and senior titles. They owe us nothing more, I just hope the next generation can do it too.
Jordan cannot ever be a great after his stunt in 2003.
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
He may be remembered for a few all Ireland medals but in the minds of many he will be remembered for being a cheat and as yellow as a duck's foot
McGuigan at the height of his powers in 2003-2005 was a major part of Tyrones success. Remember him skipping round McGeeney in 2003 when he had been dying from flu the night before.
As someone has said he was robbed of an All Star in 2005 as Canavan got one through sentiment. If Armagh had McGuigan during this period we would definitely have won another AI.
The soldiers from the 97/98 minor teams are one by one leaving the battlefield. They will not be easily replaced.
Both these guys owe Tyrone nothing & by stepping a side they should give youth a chance. All these retirements are going to be hard to replace but with Mickey Harte still around anything is possble.
Quote from: eriugaMS on November 01, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
Jordan cannot ever be a great after his stunt in 2003.
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
He may be remembered for a few all Ireland medals but in the minds of many he will be remembered for being a cheat and as yellow as a duck's foot
Yawn ..... GET OVER IT!
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on November 01, 2011, 11:33:38 PM
Quote from: eriugaMS on November 01, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
Jordan cannot ever be a great after his stunt in 2003.
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
He may be remembered for a few all Ireland medals but in the minds of many he will be remembered for being a cheat and as yellow as a duck's foot
Yawn ..... GET OVER IT!
Yawn..... quite a succinct and great counter argument illustrating facts that counter the original proposition ................... NOT
Best of luck to both men. True legends in Ulster.
Never really liked Jordan. He just had one of those faces. A bit like John Terry or CJ McGourty. One you'd love to slap. Nothing personal. It's probably just a tribal thing. But I suppose his record speaks for itself.
McGuigan was a decent player in his day. He suffered bad injuries too and was nice to see him return afterwards. Am i correct in saying that because of his injuries and being off work, the GAA made sure in future, players were compensated in such circumstances?
trileacman, you say brian was robbed of an all star in 2005. This was the 6 forwards, who do you suggest he replace??
Brian Dooher (Tyrone), Peter Canavan (Tyrone), Eoin Mulligan (Tyrone), Colm Cooper (Kerry), Stephen O'NeillFOTY (Tyrone), Stephen McDonnell (Armagh)
Brian came home a week before the first round against cavan, hardly played a full game the whole championship. He had a great final though, hitting 3 big scores. He's a sound lad, who could have been alot better only for the injuries.
Yes jordan did indeed make a clown of himself in 2003, but apart from that i think he has been a class act, isn't the only man to start every game under harte in championship. I was thinking most the tyrone lads were going to give it one more lash, but i guess it's better to have a couple leave this year, and some more over the next year or 2. Dooher is different, he's 5 years older than the 97/98 crop, and it's time he was gone
I'm not sure McGuigan deserved an all star in 05. Canavan or Mulligan certainly didn't.
Canavan didn't play in the league that year. Was sub v Dublin in both games as far as I recall. Got a couple of points in the semi and a goal in the final. Only played half of both. Mulligan had done nothing up until that goal against Dublin. Had a good game in the replay, and was average enough in the semi and final. Ronan Clarke had a better year than all three.
It's seems to be if a player does something memorable he'll get an all star... Cassidy's point, Gormley's block, Mulligans goal, Cluxton's point etc.
They shouldered the wheel for long enough with great success, and now new blood will come in and be tasked with continuing their success. Their legacy is that Tyrone now see an all ireland as a legitimate target every year at minor under 21 and senior level. To me Jordan was the most important Tyrone footballer over the last 10 years, consistently excellent, scored some key all ireland final points. Mc Guigan was essential to prise open the big games, possessed with a vision and ability and committment that could overcome the most formidable of teams and injuries. Without either or both Tyrone would not have achieved what they did. They will of course be replaced in time but their service will be remembered by Tyrone people for a lifetime.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2011, 01:14:27 AM
I'm not sure McGuigan deserved an all star in 05. Canavan or Mulligan certainly didn't.
Canavan didn't play in the league that year. Was sub v Dublin in both games as far as I recall. Got a couple of points in the semi and a goal in the final. Only played half of both. Mulligan had done nothing up until that goal against Dublin. Had a good game in the replay, and was average enough in the semi and final. Ronan Clarke had a better year than all three.
It's seems to be if a player does something memorable he'll get an all star... Cassidy's point, Gormley's block, Mulligans goal, Cluxton's point etc.
Did Mulligan not RTE get man of the match in the 2005 final? Not bad for an average performance in what was widely regarded as the best final in years.
Quote from: Orchardman on November 02, 2011, 12:09:23 AM
Brian came home a week before the first round against cavan
If he hadn't come home that summer Tyrone would not have won the All-Ireland. A lot of people wrongly attributed Tyrone's sharp decline after 2005 on the retirement of Peter Canavan but in truth it was the loss of Brian McGuigan that was most keenly felt, he was at the creative hub of that team and so much went through him. It was to his credit that he returned from those two terrible injuries to play inter county football again. He wasn't the same player but the class was still there and he gave a terrific performance coming off the bench in the 2008 final. Came on with about 20 minutes to go and calmed things down for Tyrone, getting on the ball and using it wisely. Tyrone scored 0-5 without reply in the closing stages and McGuigan was key to that with his cool head in centre field. I think it's a shame we didn't see more of the younger lads blooded the last couple of years as McGuigan was on form this summer and with others around to do more of his running and get onto his passes he could still have been very effective.
Jordan has been a class act over the past decade. Did he ever miss a championship match? He could easily have played on at the highest level for another couple of seasons at least. These lads don't owe Tyrone anything though, good luck to them.
Two great players who won't be replaced easily.
McGuigan was very unlucky with his injuries.
Best of luck in retirement.
Sublime players.
What a decade they gave us. But people my age should not be retiring - makes me feel very old!!
For me Jordan was the first name on that team sheet. When he was absent form any NFL or McKenna game Tyrone were a much weaker side. Harte was lucky Jordan remained relatively injury free for the last decade although I believe he may have played through a couple of the latter season with injury. Best memories were his pass to Mulligan for the Canavan goal in the '05 final, his clinching point in the same game driving through the middle, his goal v Cavan in 2005 and single-handedly managing to annoy the whole of Armagh for the rest of their lives since 2003. Also, when the Dubs nailed Tyrone this year Jordan kept motoring til the end.
McGuigan oozed class. His point v Kerry in the 2005 final when he dummied two Kerry defenders was a thing of beauty. Apparently his stats for that game were phenomenal. Like Jordan, he always performed on the big occasion. People still don't realise what he went through to recover from his serious eye injury. He only half told that story.
When Gormley goes that Tyrone side will truly be a memory.
The headline could be misleading...
"Brian MCGuigan and Phillip Jordan announce their retirement - together"
The first ever announcement of true love on the GAA scene
Quote from: Orangemac on November 01, 2011, 11:33:04 PM
The soldiers from the 97/98 minor teams are one by one leaving the battlefield. They will not be easily replaced.
You wish ;)
Two class acts. I'd say there clubs will be delighted to get a few years out of them with there full commitment to the club scene and that will be great for both clubs. Moy will certainly be serious opposition in Div 2 next year - both Ryan Mellon and Jordan available for all league games.
Will be hard players to replace on the Tyrone team but hopefully we will see some of the younger players get a chance now.
Two great servants, thanks for the memories lads.
Quote from: eriugaMS on November 01, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
Jordan cannot ever be a great after his stunt in 2003.
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
He may be remembered for a few all Ireland medals but in the minds of many he will be remembered for being a cheat and as yellow as a duck's foot
McGuigan did something similar to try and get Miskella sent off in '09.
I wouldn't let that overshadow their finer moments. Every player has at least one moment that they are or should be ashamed of.
As a Derry man who suffered severe defeats at the hands and defeats of these two boys, I congratulate them and thank them for the hours of enjoyment they gave me watching them over the years.
I find it difficult to understand those who try to degrade them by hauling up things they might have done on the pitch at times. Name a player who hasn't.
QuoteFeigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
So the same goes from Francie Bellew then I take it? ::)
Thankfully real GAA people see a bit more than the likes of you.
2 class acts. Would definitely be in my best 15 of the past 15 years or so. I wish them well in their retirement.
McGuigan was a class player and it is sad to see him go.
Jordan is a c*nt and I just hope he means it this time.
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 02, 2011, 08:54:22 AM
Did Mulligan not RTE get man of the match in the 2005 final? Not bad for an average performance in what was widely regarded as the best final in years.
He did, but that particular selection was regarded as a bit of a joke at the time.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 02, 2011, 12:48:35 PM
McGuigan was a class player and it is sad to see him go.
Jordan is a c*nt and I just hope he means it this time.
ditto
I remember June 2008 and reports filtering through that the McGuigans were playing well.
For putting Kerry to the sword 3 times in a row, we will never forget you.
And it was wonderful to see Frank McGuigan, whose own glittering career was cut short by an accident,
have the pleasure of seeing the McGuigan name on not just one Tyrone team that won the ultimate prize.
Sad to hear of Brian's retirement from county football.
From he started to play youth football in Ardboe and propel teams to underage titles it was always obvious he was one of those special talents that came around every so often. Underage titles annexed he came off the bench in the final after recovering from 2 broken collar bones in 1998 to help guide Ardboe to their last senior title.
Tyrone obviously soon came calling where he provided so many exhilarating displays its almost impossible to talk about them all but I suppose the '05 final against Kerry will always linger, as O'Neill pointed out in a previous post his stats that day were simply phenomenal.
Unfortunately he suffered a terrible leg break in 2006 when he was in my opinion the best player in the country. To recover from walking round with the leg in a cage was testament to his character, but to come back from the eye injury that followed the next year was something else.
On return he may not have been quite the player he was prior to the injuries but he still had that wee bit of class that set him apart. This year was easily his best since returning from those injuries. He was as good a performer as Tyrone had all year and was excellent for Ardboe as well particularly earlier in the season. In July, Ardboe played him at centre half back in a league game against Coalisland. In the last 15 mins of that game he controlled affairs like only he can guiding the team home with the ball attracted to him like a magnet.
Tyrone's loss will be Ardboes gain and hopefully he gets his hands on another O'Neill cup in the coming years.
Quote from: cornafean on November 02, 2011, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 02, 2011, 08:54:22 AM
Did Mulligan not RTE get man of the match in the 2005 final? Not bad for an average performance in what was widely regarded as the best final in years.
He did, but that particular selection was regarded as a bit of a joke at the time.
Do you think RTE gave him the award as a joke?? I didnt particularly agree with the selection myself, but if experts suggested he was Man of the Match on All Ireland final day then he must have been a little bit better than average.
For what its worth though - in my opinion Brian should have won the MoM award that year along with an All Star but regardless of that himself and Philly have given us Tyrone fans many great days - thanks for the effort lads!
On another note - it is a very sad reflection on the Armagh lads on here when after 8 years they still feel the need to use insults like "c*nt" when referring to Philly Jordan - it really is pathetic!
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 02, 2011, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: cornafean on November 02, 2011, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 02, 2011, 08:54:22 AM
Did Mulligan not RTE get man of the match in the 2005 final? Not bad for an average performance in what was widely regarded as the best final in years.
He did, but that particular selection was regarded as a bit of a joke at the time.
On another note - it is a very sad reflection on the Armagh lads on here when after 8 years they still feel the need to use insults like "c*nt" when referring to Philly Jordan - it really is pathetic!
Shouldnt be using that word about any lad however you will never get agreement between Armagh and Tyrone folk on that incident in 2003. However its a sad reflection on the Tyrone lads that the best they can throw back is the Francie Bellew incident against Cavan. Whether anyone hit anyone in either incident it is clear that Jordan and many of his colleague were particularly adept at drawing a free (aka diving) whereas Bellew made a bit of a meal out of one incident where the guy half struck him with his forearm. Only a very one eyed man could not see that. All that aside both players would have been welcomed on any county team in the country and good luck to them both in their retirement.
Quote from: haveaharp on November 02, 2011, 06:31:27 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 02, 2011, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: cornafean on November 02, 2011, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 02, 2011, 08:54:22 AM
Did Mulligan not RTE get man of the match in the 2005 final? Not bad for an average performance in what was widely regarded as the best final in years.
He did, but that particular selection was regarded as a bit of a joke at the time.
On another note - it is a very sad reflection on the Armagh lads on here when after 8 years they still feel the need to use insults like "c*nt" when referring to Philly Jordan - it really is pathetic!
Shouldnt be using that word about any lad however you will never get agreement between Armagh and Tyrone folk on that incident in 2003. However its a sad reflection on the Tyrone lads that the best they can throw back is the Francie Bellew incident against Cavan. Whether anyone hit anyone in either incident it is clear that Jordan and many of his colleague were particularly adept at drawing a free (aka diving) whereas Bellew made a bit of a meal out of one incident where the guy half struck him with his forearm. Only a very one eyed man could not see that. All that aside both players would have been welcomed on any county team in the country and good luck to them both in their retirement.
:D He wasn't within a hounds gowl of him FFS!
Best of luck to the two lads on their retirements!
Quote from: eriugaMS on November 01, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
Jordan cannot ever be a great after his stunt in 2003.
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
He may be remembered for a few all Ireland medals but in the minds of many he will be remembered for being a cheat and as yellow as a duck's foot
What a load of balls !!!
QuoteHowever its a sad reflection on the Tyrone lads that the best they can throw back is the Francie Bellew incident against Cavan. ............ Bellew made a bit of a meal out of one incident where the guy half struck him with his forearm. Only a very one eyed man could not see that. All that aside both players would have been welcomed on any county team in the country and good luck to them both in their retirement.
So Bellew made a bit of a meal about being struck by a raised arm on one occasion that resulted in a man getting the line? Just like Jordan. Great! We are in agreement then!
Francie was a great clubman tis true.
I wish Brian and Philip all the best on their retirement from county football. They both played a big role in Tyrone's All-Ireland successes and no doubt will be missed.
On a side note, is a duck's foot not orange?
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2011, 09:23:25 PM
Two cheating hoors, tbf.
McGuigan got Gregory McCartan sent off in Ulster final 2003.
Jordan got Marsden sent off in AI final 2003.
Not that I care. Two brilliant players. Good luck to both.
It sounds like you care! ;D
ever heard the joke about Pedro the sheepshagger?
It is fair to say that Philip Jordan was one of the most consistent performers in a 3 time all-ireland winningTyrone Team. A team that changed the way football was played. He was an amazing footballer, athlete, and sportsman. He gave everything to the county and the code for well over a decade. He stands out amongst even his peers, and should be missed by anyone who enjoys gaelic football.
McGuigan wasnt too bad neither - a genuis with more than a small amount of the oul fellas magic. His return to form after two horrific injuries shows the character of the man. I hope that he gets a few more years with his club - ardboe fans deserve to seem him
Ciaran Gourley hanging up the boots also according to BBC Sport. Dont think he has featured much in the last couple of years tho.
Quote from: leaveherinsir on November 03, 2011, 08:52:02 PM
Ciaran Gourley hanging up the boots also according to BBC Sport. Dont think he has featured much in the last couple of years tho.
There goes Tyrone's championship ambitions, Ciaran Gourleys gone ;)
Tyrone have a ready made replacement for Brian Mc Guigan in Peter Harte, shouldn't be too hard for them to find a 'defender' who can bomb forward and then come back and join in the swarm to replace Jordan (not taking away from Jordan though, he was tremendous at what he done) but as for Gourley he will never be replaced. ::)
Gourley gave a lot for his county so I think you're a bit harsh. Any player starting in an AI team isn't too bad in my book. Decent fella too from what I recall.
McGuigan never really reached the height of his powers post 2003 due to injury really which was a pity. He always seemed to be battling with it and looked to be back to near his best last year but he had to put in the work for it after his injuries. You get these players every now and again who were born to play CHF and he was one of them.
Jordan was very good - second only to Tomas O'Se of late in the attacking wing half back mode. One of few people to put Galvin in his pocket. Saw him in a very average queens freshers team in 99 against a star studded jordanstown team and it was obvious even when his team were getting hammered that he was a class act.
Harte has a long way to go yet - more of a wing half forward I think. Always thought Mulgrew would replace McGuigan but for whatever reason that doesn't seem to have happened.
Nothing much more to be said, two of the very best, whom we were blessed to have. Their clubs have been much happier places over the last few days no doubt.
Unfair about Ciarán Gourley -- only for him Down would almost definitely have beaten us in the Ulster in 2003, and things most definitely would have been different... gave fantastic service too over the years.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 03, 2011, 11:04:14 PM
Nothing much more to be said, two of the very best, whom we were blessed to have. Their clubs have been much happier places over the last few days no doubt.
Unfair about Ciarán Gourley -- only for him Down would almost definitely have beaten us in the Ulster in 2003, and things most definitely would have been different... gave fantastic service too over the years.
Two great players who will be hard replaced . Both displayed real natural footballing talent at the highest level Best of luck to them both in the future
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2011, 09:23:25 PM
Two cheating hoors, tbf.
McGuigan got Gregory McCartan sent off in Ulster final 2003.
Jordan got Marsden sent off in AI final 2003.
Not that I care. Two brilliant players. Good luck to both.
A valid point HS, ye'd wonder why people are still moaning about one and not the other*.Can't blame either of them for their actions, not nice but few would have behaved differently. Mc Guigan in his prime was pure class, more important to his team than his Da to his imo.
Maybe because the non cooking apples realise that neither situation would have arisen if the other parties had shown a tiny bit more cop on.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 03, 2011, 11:04:14 PM
Nothing much more to be said, two of the very best, whom we were blessed to have. Their clubs have been much happier places over the last few days no doubt.
Unfair about Ciarán Gourley -- only for him Down would almost definitely have beaten us in the Ulster in 2003, and things most definitely would have been different... gave fantastic service too over the years.
Not only that FoSB, our Derry friend may remember the quarter final in Ulster that year when the inbreds were twenty minutes from knocking Tyrone out. Gourley and McMenamin were introduced and the rest is history.
Good luck to gourley, certainly can't remember him doing anything controversial to annoy armagh people. Was a good solid corner back, had big problems with injuries but has the 3 medals. Said in the gaelic life paper today (never usually get it, full of crap) that kyle coney is going to oz as well and will be missing. Anyone know is this a year out working or is it anything to do with going back to the sydney swans?
Kyle Coney is coming back in January,just out for a holiday.
Gourley was a great player - one of the unsung heros who when given a job to do by Harte did it quietly and effectively.
Great servant to Tyrone.
Good luck to the lads who are retiring, some of these lads are irrreplaceable. I think if Tyrone need to start with a clean sheet and sadly that means getting rid of their manager, they don't have to look too far to see that nostalgia can be a bitch.
Armagh people do some whinging, reminds me of the English soccer fans. Maradona cheated us out of the world cup. Get over it you orange bastids! :P
The red card was unavoidable, and I know genuine Armagh supporters who blame Marsden for losing his cool but yet still accept that with 2 Marsdens on the field they still wouldnt have won that game. You cant hit someone in any sport bar boxing or ice hockey. If you lose your composure you lose the game. Over the years some armagh guys dont accept that the man lifted the fist. Marsdens a great guy but he lost his cool and whacked a player no excuse, and it looked damn sore. Im saying that with a heavy heart because I know some people I like who live in Armagh and I hate to say it in 1995 Tyrone people felt that if Charlie had went off the field at that time rather than a few minutes later Tyrone would have won. Its self delusionary, we are all guilty of it but I hate to see players still getting stick for something that happened on the field of play between 2 consenting adults. None of ye could have laced Jordans boots so suck it up lads and get on with it. Self Sympathy is entrapment. Liberate yourselves from it - go out, get behind Paddy O Rourke, build a new team and give us a game in next years Ulster - the good Armagh fans I used to know could always have accepted defeat no sourness, and moved on. Has there been crossbreeding with Derry here? Case closed.
wise up rrhf, i for one have gave jordan plenty of praise, and i wouldn't use any words like tr**p etc on this site for him. We can't keep going on about that incident in 2003, and who knows if we would have won if he had of stayed on, i dont think we would, as i said before we were crap that day. BUT stop saying that marsden lifted his fist and decked jordan FFS, it was nothing of the sort, have you never been on a football pitch or even a bit of small dust up yourself?
Quote from: ONeill on November 03, 2011, 11:31:01 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 03, 2011, 11:04:14 PM
Nothing much more to be said, two of the very best, whom we were blessed to have. Their clubs have been much happier places over the last few days no doubt.
Unfair about Ciarán Gourley -- only for him Down would almost definitely have beaten us in the Ulster in 2003, and things most definitely would have been different... gave fantastic service too over the years.
Not only that FoSB, our Derry friend may remember the quarter final in Ulster that year when the inbreds were twenty minutes from knocking Tyrone out. Gourley and McMenamin were introduced and the rest is history.
True, another example of his massive contribution to our fortunes being somewhat underrated.
effective players. Should I say more ? I hate to be rude....
Glad to see Gourley getting proper recognition here, a totally committed player who was outstanding on the field in 2003 was injured in 2005 and in 2008 had a tremendous season getting us to the all ireland final. Was one of the bravest players ever to pull on a Tyrone jersey and suffered many injuries as a result. He saved Tyrone in 2003 V Down and whilst it didnt work out was the man initially handed the full back role after Cormac - and that showed the faith that we had in the man . Was Gourley the first of the 1997 team to make it into Tyrone seniors? Played in the championship in 1999 which to put it in context was Adrian Cushs last season. I believe O Neill/ Mc Anallan also played that year and Mc Guigan may have been a sub. That meant it took nearly 5 seasons for the young lads to achieve greatness. During this time they received constant football and had many good days and bad days. Its important we give the young lads who have at 21 next to no football under their belt due to the successful careers of their predecessors as much gametime as possible now. Rebuilding years have been lost, its frustrating that they had not more game time before now. But if its 3 years till we win an all ireland Ill gladly accept that. But we must be patient and now through these unselfish retirements the glass ceiling is being removed. We await an exciting new dawn in Tyrone football.
By the way Orchardman I have raised my fist on the football field - just three times, whilst looking up at Dooher and Canavan in the hogan stand.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 04, 2011, 02:16:35 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 02, 2011, 07:23:29 PM
Quote from: eriugaMS on November 01, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
Jordan cannot ever be a great after his stunt in 2003.
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
He may be remembered for a few all Ireland medals but in the minds of many he will be remembered for being a cheat and as yellow as a duck's foot
What a load of balls !!!
Video of the incident (replay about 25 seconds in)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnATCSQxNwM
Back on topic, Brian Philly and now Ciaran owe Tyrone nothing. Thanks for the memories lads.
Not from either county so not bothered about your tit for tat but the bold Francie got a forearm round the side of the head which almost knocked him out so I don't understand what you're trying to illustrate with this video link!
Quote from: rrhf on November 05, 2011, 11:44:23 AM
By the way Orchardman I have raised my fist on the football field - just three times, whilst looking up at Dooher and Canavan in the hogan stand.
OK, so maybe ur phily jordan then, fair play.
I'm not someone who get's invoved in slabbering matches. I have stated on this and some other thread (think it was about big joe's book) that:
1. I don't think armagh would have won that day regardless
2: that jordan didn't do much wrong after that and that he turned into a fine footballer.
But i still cannot fathom how any sane person can't say what really happened in that incident was farce, running up to a man's face at full pelt and then falling to the ground in a heap, joke.
my take on the marsden/jordan incident was that jordan ran towards him and marsden raised his fists. correct me if i'm wrong but it later transpired that marsden's red card was only rescinded due to an issue with the referees report and not cause he didnt do anything untoward. dunno what armagh have a problem with as they should have been stuffed that day - tyrone missed about 4 clear goal chances.
also will say that both mcguigan and jordan are legends. however talk that they will never be replaced is nonsense as i'm sure that the same was said in 1984 when king frank was forced to quit. just 5 years later peter canavan was playing nfl for tyrone and the rest is history. nobody knows what the future holds....
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2011, 11:41:32 PM
my take on the marsden/jordan incident was that jordan ran towards him and marsden raised his fists. correct me if i'm wrong but it later transpired that marsden's red card was only rescinded due to an issue with the referees report and not cause he didnt do anything untoward. dunno what armagh have a problem with as they should have been stuffed that day - tyrone missed about 4 clear goal chances.
also will say that both mcguigan and jordan are legends. however talk that they will never be replaced is nonsense as i'm sure that the same was said in 1984 when king frank was forced to quit. just 5 years later peter canavan was playing nfl for tyrone and the rest is history. nobody knows what the future holds....
The same wasn't said in 1985 because Tyrone had won nothing. Jordan is a multiple AI winner. I'd be surprised if I see another set of Tyrone players who win 3 AIs in 6 years.
Quote from: ONeill on November 06, 2011, 12:02:07 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2011, 11:41:32 PM
my take on the marsden/jordan incident was that jordan ran towards him and marsden raised his fists. correct me if i'm wrong but it later transpired that marsden's red card was only rescinded due to an issue with the referees report and not cause he didnt do anything untoward. dunno what armagh have a problem with as they should have been stuffed that day - tyrone missed about 4 clear goal chances.
also will say that both mcguigan and jordan are legends. however talk that they will never be replaced is nonsense as i'm sure that the same was said in 1984 when king frank was forced to quit. just 5 years later peter canavan was playing nfl for tyrone and the rest is history. nobody knows what the future holds....
The same wasn't said in 1985 because Tyrone had won nothing. Jordan is a multiple AI winner. I'd be surprised if I see another set of Tyrone players who win 3 AIs in 6 years.
Fingers crossed.
The thing about the Jordan incident was that he ran towards Marsden at speed, with intent to rough him up, shoulder him or otherwise. Marsden was occupied with other Tyrone players and seen Jordan coming towards him late, and put up his hands to defend himself. Like a reflex action. There was no malice or intent in Marsden's actions. There was with Jordan's.
Tyrone may have won anyway. But Marsden was hard done by. Marsden wasn't a dirty player. Tough, yes. Dirty, no.
1. I have yet to see anywhere on this thread, anyone insinuate that Armagh would have won the 03 AI had Marsden not been sent off, so stop peddling that shite.
2. Jordan ran at Marsden like a man possessed. Marsden raised his hands, as anyone would in self-defence. He was NOT the aggressor, Jordan was. Jordan hits deck like he's been shot, and simulates injury for a while, rolling about in 'agony'. That is all FACT.
To do so in an AI final to get a player sent off, I stand by my original comment. The actions of a c*nt.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 06, 2011, 11:53:44 AM
1. I have yet to see anywhere on this thread, anyone insinuate that Armagh would have won the 03 AI had Marsden not been sent off, so stop peddling that shite.
2. Jordan ran at Marsden like a man possessed. Marsden raised his hands, as anyone would in self-defence. He was NOT the aggressor, Jordan was. Jordan hits deck like he's been shot, and simulates injury for a while, rolling about in 'agony'. That is all FACT.
To do so in an AI final to get a player sent off, I stand by my original comment. The actions of a c*nt.
+1
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 06, 2011, 11:53:44 AM
1. I have yet to see anywhere on this thread, anyone insinuate that Armagh would have won the 03 AI had Marsden not been sent off, so stop peddling that shite.
2. Jordan ran at Marsden like a man possessed. Marsden raised his hands, as anyone would in self-defence. He was NOT the aggressor, Jordan was. Jordan hits deck like he's been shot, and simulates injury for a while, rolling about in 'agony'. That is all FACT.
To do so in an AI final to get a player sent off, I stand by my original comment. The actions of a c*nt.
Spot on.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 06, 2011, 11:53:44 AM
1. I have yet to see anywhere on this thread, anyone insinuate that Armagh would have won the 03 AI had Marsden not been sent off, so stop peddling that shite.
Really?...
Quote from: eriugaMS on November 01, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
Feigning injury and hurt to get D Marsden sent off will only ever send out the message he was a cheat and perjursit (By action) and an insult of all that is good in our sport. Yes it may have won him an AI medal but to do so by such mal-practice of all that is good in Gaa was and is a heresy to all proper supporters of the game.
:P
Balls. If you lift your hand you run the danger of walking. Doesn't matter if it's a club game or an All Ireland Final. Build a bridge lads.
Philly Jordan - the only Ulster member of the 4-3-2-1 club
4 All Stars
3 All Ireland Senior medals
2 All Ireland U21 medals
1 All Ireland Minor medal.
Absolute legend.
Quote from: tyrone86 on November 06, 2011, 01:34:14 PM
Balls. If you lift your hand you run the danger of walking. Doesn't matter if it's a club game or an All Ireland Final. Build a bridge lads.
Philly Jordan - the only Ulster member of the 4-3-2-1 club
4 All Stars
3 All Ireland Senior medals
2 All Ireland U21 medals
1 All Ireland Minor medal.
Absolute legend.
+1
Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2011, 01:41:33 PM
Quote from: tyrone86 on November 06, 2011, 01:34:14 PM
Balls. If you lift your hand you run the danger of walking. Doesn't matter if it's a club game or an All Ireland Final. Build a bridge lads.
Philly Jordan - the only Ulster member of the 4-3-2-1 club
4 All Stars
3 All Ireland Senior medals
2 All Ireland U21 medals
1 All Ireland Minor medal.
Absolute legend.
+1
+ 1
33 seconds in - still flat out.
I don't really care what that number is but you might want to take those blinkers off when you watch that ::) Bad example!
Will be a big loss still is as good as is out there.
Unreal talent and career. Flying in 2008.
He did dive in 03-i was right behind it--in canel end a few rows back--couldnt beleive Marsden was sent off. Doesnt change fact Jordan was some whb
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 06, 2011, 11:53:44 AM
1. I have yet to see anywhere on this thread, anyone insinuate that Armagh would have won the 03 AI had Marsden not been sent off, so stop peddling that shite.
2. Jordan ran at Marsden like a man possessed. Marsden raised his hands, as anyone would in self-defence. He was NOT the aggressor, Jordan was. Jordan hits deck like he's been shot, and simulates injury for a while, rolling about in 'agony'. That is all FACT.
To do so in an AI final to get a player sent off, I stand by my original comment. The actions of a c*nt.
Lovely word to describe Jordan. It seems that some Tyrone fans don't accept that Jordan was in the wrong and are almost as reluctant as Armagh fans in accepting Peter Canavan should not have been sent-off in the 2005 Ulster Final Replay in a game that Tyrone would have seen out comfortably had it not been for poor referee decisions (SON & PTG). That lovely word you used to describe Jordan would be more relevant to Ciaran McKeever and his antics that day.
In my view, Jordan didn't cover himself in glory in the Marsden incident, Jordan ran at Marsden and threw himself to the ground and rolled around as if in agony. What else was Marsden to do? But that one incident should not define a player – he was pretty young then but he grew up and went on to have a great career and probably learnt a lot from the incident.
I remember Shane Sweeney saying in 2005 how before the Tyrone Armagh game (which big Joe lost Armagh according to Armagh fans) how the certain elements of the squad had explained to him how much it meant to beat the sh*te from across the county border. Being from Aghyaran he was so far away from the face of a rivalry which was explosive and divisive in the eastern areas of Tyrone. I remember reports of Jordan removing Armagh flags from his village prior to the 2002 AI final. A dedicated Tyrone man who obviously hated all things orange, and it showed when he took the field. I'd say he'd be quite pleased for Armagh men to know him as a c*nt!
Does anyone else notice how Armagh fans always have an excuse. Paddy O'Rourke is sh*te, Mike McGurn gets paid too much, Joe Kernan took off Geezer, Joe Kernan had Monaghon backed, Peter McDonnell had a spy in his squad, the county board are all d*cks, Jordan dived, etc etc etc. Can Armagh fans not swallow a bick man up pill and admit that the better team had beaten them.
I'd suggest that only for that injury McGuigan would have become one of the all time greats of the game, and Tyrone could have had anything up to 6-7 All Irelands.
For a couple of seasons in the mid-noughties he was the most complete centre half-forward I've seen, including Greg Blaney. There's been Mournemen hanged for ushering statements like this, but if I was to give a video to any young player to show them how Gaelic Football should be played, it would follow McGuigan around for 70 minutes of the 2005 AI Final.
In Canavan, O'Neill and Mulligan, Tyrone were blessed with great inside forwards at this time, but their job was just that little bit easier because they knew that they'd get the service they wanted. I've regularly compared McGuigan to Kieran McDonald as the opposite ends of a spectrum for a CHF. McGuigan patiently played football and then produced the ball an inside forward would want to receive, when they should receive it. McDonald continually forced the issue by playing those 80 yard curlers, which although gorgeous to look at, most of the time isolated forwards into a foot race away from goal.
Jordan was, obviously, an outstandingly good and well-rounded wing-back for over a decade, and would comfortably make any team of the noughties. One of those players who made a career out of making the right decision time and time again.
Gourley was a useful player. As a career corner back who played for the most part at the highest level against the best teams, I can't think of any instances where he got ruined or even badly found out. There aren't mant corner backs who you can say that about. We'd love to unearth a few for Down football, that's for sure.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 07, 2011, 10:42:54 AM
I'd suggest that only for that injury McGuigan would have become one of the all time greats of the game, and Tyrone could have had anything up to 6-7 All Irelands.
For a couple of seasons in the mid-noughties he was the most complete centre half-forward I've seen, including Greg Blaney. There's been Mournemen hanged for ushering statements like this, but if I was to give a video to any young player to show them how Gaelic Football should be played, it would follow McGuigan around for 70 minutes of the 2005 AI Final.
In Canavan, O'Neill and Mulligan, Tyrone were blessed with great inside forwards at this time, but their job was just that little bit easier because they knew that they'd get the service they wanted. I've regularly compared McGuigan to Kieran McDonald as the opposite ends of a spectrum for a CHF. McGuigan patiently played football and then produced the ball an inside forward would want to receive, when they should receive it.
Yep - he was almost in the Trevor Giles class.
Good luck to the lads in their retirement.
Quote from: Moortown Spuds on November 07, 2011, 10:12:30 AM
I remember Shane Sweeney saying in 2005 how before the Tyrone Armagh game (which big Joe lost Armagh according to Armagh fans) how the certain elements of the squad had explained to him how much it meant to beat the sh*te from across the county border. Being from Aghyaran he was so far away from the face of a rivalry which was explosive and divisive in the eastern areas of Tyrone. I remember reports of Jordan removing Armagh flags from his village prior to the 2002 AI final. A dedicated Tyrone man who obviously hated all things orange, and it showed when he took the field. I'd say he'd be quite pleased for Armagh men to know him as a c*nt!
Does anyone else notice how Armagh fans always have an excuse. Paddy O'Rourke is sh*te, Mike McGurn gets paid too much, Joe Kernan took off Geezer, Joe Kernan had Monaghon backed, Peter McDonnell had a spy in his squad, the county board are all d*cks, Jordan dived, etc etc etc. Can Armagh fans not swallow a bick man up pill and admit that the better team had beaten them.
Arguably the worst fisherman on the board. :D
Quote from: rrhf on November 05, 2011, 11:44:23 AM
By the way Orchardman I have raised my fist on the football field - just three times, whilst looking up at Dooher and Canavan in the hogan stand.
Cringe!
Quote from: thewobbler on November 07, 2011, 10:42:54 AM
I'd suggest that only for that injury McGuigan would have become one of the all time greats of the game, and Tyrone could have had anything up to 6-7 All Irelands.
For a couple of seasons in the mid-noughties he was the most complete centre half-forward I've seen, including Greg Blaney. There's been Mournemen hanged for ushering statements like this, but if I was to give a video to any young player to show them how Gaelic Football should be played, it would follow McGuigan around for 70 minutes of the 2005 AI Final.
Couldn't agree more!
McGuigan was a good player, but he was nowhere near the player Greg Blaney was.
Ciaran McKeever was a c**t for what he did in the 2005 replay?? So what did that make McMenamin given what he did to John McEntee that day?
PJ was a good player but what he did in 2003 final will always overshadow anything he did on a football pitch.
Tyrone fans here are saying Armagh fans should get over 2003 and the Jordan/Marsden incident. And if the ball was on the other foot? A disgusting act which cost your team an all Ireland title? Would you let it go? No, you most certainly wouldn't!
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 06, 2011, 11:53:44 AM
1. I have yet to see anywhere on this thread, anyone insinuate that Armagh would have won the 03 AI had Marsden not been sent off, so stop peddling that shite.
Really II?...
Quote from: BennyCake on November 07, 2011, 11:20:26 AM
Tyrone fans here are saying Armagh fans should get over 2003 and the Jordan/Marsden incident. And if the ball was on the other foot? A disgusting act which cost your team an all Ireland title? Would you let it go? No, you most certainly wouldn't!
:P
On a retirement thread it should be a case of wishing the lads well instead of picking off cheap shots at their career. That maddens me. Leave the lads alone.
Quote from: rrhf on November 07, 2011, 11:30:52 AM
On a retirement thread it should be a case of wishing the lads well instead of picking off cheap shots at their career. That maddens me. Leave the lads alone.
Most people are doing exactly that. Ignore the loons.
2 great careers that most of the rest of us would have died for. Fcuk the begrudgers.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 07, 2011, 11:20:26 AM
McGuigan was a good player, but he was nowhere near the player Greg Blaney was.
So what did that make McMenamin given what he did to John McEntee that day?
McMenamin should have been sent off for that and what he did a couple of mins after.
What? I haven't moved on from 1996. Royal Bastards.
Quote from: ONeill on November 08, 2011, 12:36:49 AM
What? I haven't moved on from 1996. Royal b**tards.
Whats that you were saying Fionntamhnach? ;)
QuoteMcGuigan didn't want to retire
25 November 2011
Brian McGuigan has revealed how he was left with no option but to retire from inter-county football after holding recent talks with Tyrone manager Mickey Harte.
Due to family commitments, the Ardboe clubman would not have been in a position to return to the county fold until March, but eager to start training early, Harte wasn't agreeable to this.
"I wasn't actually going to say I was retiring, " McGuigan said in the Irish News.
"My wife is due to give birth again in March - that will be our second child - and I couldn't commit before that.
"I told Mickey that I wasn't happy about going back before March. When March comes I said if I felt fit enough to go back I would, but Mickey was saying we'll be training hard in the wintertime and he didn't want me to miss that.
"He said if I came back in March time, well, obviously they'd be doing something wrong if I was fit enough to come back in again at that stage. I suppose that made up my mind."
http://www.hoganstand.com/Tyrone/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=158421 (http://www.hoganstand.com/Tyrone/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=158421)
Think Micky got this one right. With the levels of fittness that other counties are getting to now it is essiential to train from day one.
What date does day one start from ?
Seems like a bit of management (or newspaper) doublespeak going on then. MH is quoted in today's Irish News :
"The big "R" word doesn't rest well with a lot of people and I don't think it rests well with Brian McGuigan either. It's out there at the minute and sure we'll see what happens as the year goes on."
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
Quote from: EC Unique on November 25, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
Being serious for a minute, what constitutes day one and should lads of 31 years of age, be expected to do the exact same sort of training as 19/20 year olds ?.
Could Brian Mc Guigan ( and others potentially ) function better with more rest ?. Food for thought. Had he ( or others ) been injured in the closed season, then he ( they ) wouldn't have had to do the winter training - would he have been less effective ?
Makes good sense Orangeman, but that plan is not coming from Mickey but the player. Management has to manage, players have to do what they're told. Mickey is no different than Jim McGuiness in that regard. And I don't mean either in a bad way. If Stephen O'Neill had gone to Mickey in 2008 and said he was going to take a break and give it a go in September I don't think that would have worked. Stephen retired but come that September...
I expect to see Brian and Kevin wearing their respective county jerseys around May time ;)
Quote from: EC Unique on November 25, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
don t think wee peter was at the first training session in 05 or at that many all that year
Quote from: twenty one yard free on November 26, 2011, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 25, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
don t think wee peter was at the first training session in 05 or at that many all that year
He was at plenty ;)
Fitness levels have moved on since then, see Dublin and Donegal for example. Tyrone got wiped off the pitch last year and a lot of it was due to speed, intensity and fitness. Micky has obviously identified this and has decided the way to prepare is as a unit from day one. I agree with him, bar injury all should be present at first training session. Just my opinion.
The role McGuigan plays for Tyrone involves a high level of fitness. And its probably more important now than when he was when he was 19/20 that he gets the training in.
Harte knows from last year that Tyrone simply weren't fit enough to compete at the top level. Part of the problem was he never had the players available all year and they couldn't get momentum built up. He obviously is hoping to get a settled fit team in place as early as possible this year.
Can't blame him for wanting that. Lets hope injuries don't work against this and the likes of the McMahons get a clear run at it. Will be a great way to start the league for the players back in Croke Park in February.
Quote from: EC Unique on November 26, 2011, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: twenty one yard free on November 26, 2011, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 25, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
don t think wee peter was at the first training session in 05 or at that many all that year
He was at plenty ;)
Fitness levels have moved on since then, see Dublin and Donegal for example. Tyrone got wiped off the pitch last year and a lot of it was due to speed, intensity and fitness. Micky has obviously identified this and has decided the way to prepare is as a unit from day one. I agree with him, bar injury all should be present at first training session. Just my opinion.
don t remember him at that many until championship time although sure didn t he play that year in CHF
maybe i missed him
If know a fella who has got a Rolls Royce motor car with plenty of miles on it. I think it's a Silver Ghost - supposed to have been one of the best cars ever built. It's a fair age now but the owner takes good care of it now and uses it sparingly, knowing that if he drives it every day it could break down so he only takes it out in the summer . He doesn't believe in driving the dung out of it every day especially on winter roads but prefers to keep it now for nice summer days, especially on Sundays. She's some motor !. On the days he doesn't drive the Roller, he has a Volkswagen Golf - great motor as well but bears little comparison to the Roller. Even though it's getting on in years, the Roller still performs better, handles better and drives better than most newer type modern cars that are like cow's shite, i.e never off the road.
Very good orangeman ;D
Quote from: EC Unique on November 26, 2011, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: twenty one yard free on November 26, 2011, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 25, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
don t think wee peter was at the first training session in 05 or at that many all that year
He was at plenty ;)
Fitness levels have moved on since then, see Dublin and Donegal for example. Tyrone got wiped off the pitch last year and a lot of it was due to speed, intensity and fitness. Micky has obviously identified this and has decided the way to prepare is as a unit from day one. I agree with him, bar injury all should be present at first training session. Just my opinion.
I thought Mickey said Tyrone were fitter than ever last year ???
Are they footballers or olympians ???
Yes Dublin were very fit and strong last year but they also had great footballers like the Brogans, McMenamin (who was not a starter), Nolan etc etc and had a good balance.
Quote from: orangeman on November 26, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
If know a fella who has got a Rolls Royce motor car with plenty of miles on it. I think it's a Silver Ghost - supposed to have been one of the best cars ever built. It's a fair age now but the owner takes good care of it now and uses it sparingly, knowing that if he drives it every day it could break down sp he only takes it out in the summer . He doesn't believe in driving the dung out of it every day especially on winter roads but prefers to keep it now for nice summer days, especially on Sundays. She's some motor !. On the days he doesn't drive the Roller, he has a Volkswagen Golf - great motor as well but bears little comparison to the Roller. Even though it's getting on in years, the Roller still performs better, handles better and drives better than most newer type modern cars that are like cow's shite, i.e never off the road.
nail on head comes to mind
Lads its over for these guys - let it go. We have learned all the lessons we need to in Croke Park over the last 3 years. A young good un etc.
Quote from: loughshore lad on November 26, 2011, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 26, 2011, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: twenty one yard free on November 26, 2011, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 25, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 25, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
What date does day one start from ?
first training session of 2012.
don t think wee peter was at the first training session in 05 or at that many all that year
He was at plenty ;)
Fitness levels have moved on since then, see Dublin and Donegal for example. Tyrone got wiped off the pitch last year and a lot of it was due to speed, intensity and fitness. Micky has obviously identified this and has decided the way to prepare is as a unit from day one. I agree with him, bar injury all should be present at first training session. Just my opinion.
I thought Mickey said Tyrone were fitter than ever last year ???
Are they footballers or olympians ???
Yes Dublin were very fit and strong last year but they also had great footballers like the Brogans, McMenamin (who was not a starter), Nolan etc etc and had a good balance.
Never let it be said that Dublin can't produce good skilled players. I find this thread hilarious viewing. You'd swear Dublin had no-one who could play football.
Dublin out played tyrone. They didnt out-run them. Mickey Harte as much as I love the guy went into the game with a very naive game-plan and paid the price for it. Had he set his team up properly- who knows? He went man to man in Croke Park?????????????????? ??? ??? ???. It wasnt all the players fault or the fact many of them are 30. They would have been tanked with a team of 20 year olds.
The bottom line is a 20 year old has a bad year- its washed over.
A 30 year old has a bad year- when are you retiring?
Thats Ireland for you. A good manager will take every player on his merits. He wont look at his birth cert. And thankfully players like Gormley, O Neill and a few others will hopefully stay on.
You'll win nothing without experience. Granted you need young legs and youth in bulk on any squad. But you'll win nothing without experience either. This country glorfies youth on sports teams when many of them don't have the nous nor talent to back it up.
Quote from: orangeman on November 26, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
If know a fella who has got a Rolls Royce motor car with plenty of miles on it. I think it's a Silver Ghost - supposed to have been one of the best cars ever built. It's a fair age now but the owner takes good care of it now and uses it sparingly, knowing that if he drives it every day it could break down so he only takes it out in the summer . He doesn't believe in driving the dung out of it every day especially on winter roads but prefers to keep it now for nice summer days, especially on Sundays. She's some motor !. On the days he doesn't drive the Roller, he has a Volkswagen Golf - great motor as well but bears little comparison to the Roller. Even though it's getting on in years, the Roller still performs better, handles better and drives better than most newer type modern cars that are like cow's shite, i.e never off the road.
Sorry, but that's a bollix analogy. Mickey could keep those lads under wraps over the winter and bring them out to graze in the summer but what message would that send to every potential county player in Tyrone, especially the lads who threw their ring up in January running around Healy. They were a golden outfit but we should not wait for similar players to arrive as you'll waste a generation of good footballers. McGuigan was taken off at HT v Dublin. Mugsy couldn't do the things he used to on a regular basis. Dooher still works as hard but is missing that tackle bursting aspect. Jordan kept motoring but was given a torrid time. And so on.
McGuigan will always possess a quality others don't but there comes a time when the lesser skilled footballer offers more over 50-70 mins. It's time to fuse the next generation into the system and see what happens. It's a big decision but the right one. The lessons of Cork '09, Dublin '10 and Dublin '11 cannot be ignored.
Mickey can't win :D
Keep them and he is too faithful to the old boys and get rid of them and he is too harsh!
Who did he get rid of?
Quote from: twenty one yard free on November 26, 2011, 03:35:29 PM
hope u know more about football than engines because my rolls royce never has give me any bother
Some day it will come to a full stop, unlike yourself.
Quote from: twenty one yard free on November 26, 2011, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 26, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
If know a fella who has got a Rolls Royce motor car with plenty of miles on it. I think it's a Silver Ghost - supposed to have been one of the best cars ever built. It's a fair age now but the owner takes good care of it now and uses it sparingly, knowing that if he drives it every day it could break down sp he only takes it out in the summer . He doesn't believe in driving the dung out of it every day especially on winter roads but prefers to keep it now for nice summer days, especially on Sundays. She's some motor !. On the days he doesn't drive the Roller, he has a Volkswagen Golf - great motor as well but bears little comparison to the Roller. Even though it's getting on in years, the Roller still performs better, handles better and drives better than most newer type modern cars that are like cow's shite, i.e never off the road.
nail on head comes to mind
+1 Brilliant Orangeman...
Quote from: EC Unique on November 26, 2011, 02:09:58 PM
Mickey can't win :D
Keep them and he is too faithful to the old boys and get rid of them and he is too harsh!
Its the lack of talent coming through in Tyrone thats the problem really. To be fair the players made the decision to retire themselves. Unfortunately the lack of replacements is stark.
Quote from: orangeman on November 26, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
If know a fella who has got a Rolls Royce motor car with plenty of miles on it. I think it's a Silver Ghost - supposed to have been one of the best cars ever built. It's a fair age now but the owner takes good care of it now and uses it sparingly, knowing that if he drives it every day it could break down so he only takes it out in the summer . He doesn't believe in driving the dung out of it every day especially on winter roads but prefers to keep it now for nice summer days, especially on Sundays. She's some motor !. On the days he doesn't drive the Roller, he has a Volkswagen Golf - great motor as well but bears little comparison to the Roller. Even though it's getting on in years, the Roller still performs better, handles better and drives better than most newer type modern cars that are like cow's shite, i.e never off the road.
Agree 100%.
No reason in the world Harte cant have a quiet word with the two lads and tell them to keep themselves ticking over and to come back at the end of March.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 26, 2011, 05:18:15 PM
Its the lack of talent coming through in Tyrone thats the problem really. To be fair the players made the decision to retire themselves. Unfortunately the lack of replacements is stark.
Indeed, Tyrone have only won the 2 All-Ireland minor titles in the last 4 years after all. ;D There are some great young players in Tyrone and they just need the chance to prove themselves at senior level. With a number of Tyrone's senior players stepping aside the youngsters are now going to get their chance.
I would be happy enough if McGuigan gave it another go next season. A few posters have suggested he is past it and is no longer worth his place but the facts are that his form in 2011 was probably his best since his injury problems. I said earlier in the thread (when his retirement was first announced) that it was most unfortunate that Tyrone had not started the rebuild earlier and got a few younger lads in before this summer in to benefit from Brian McGuigan's playmaking skills. He might not have the legs but with fresher players around him he could still be a great influence for at least another summer.
I have no doubt that it's a positive for Tyrone football that we are seeing going to see a lot of new faces on the panel but it will help if a
few of the old guard stick around - provided they are still worth their place. I would put McGuigan in that category, along with Gormley and and SON (and Jordan had he wanted to keep going and McGinley had he been able to get over his injuries). A mix of youth and experience is the way to go. We didn't get the mix right at all over the past couple of seasons with too many of the older players retained and not enough of the younger ones given a chance. A better balance is required next year and some of the veterans will be required.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 27, 2011, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 26, 2011, 05:18:15 PM
Its the lack of talent coming through in Tyrone thats the problem really. To be fair the players made the decision to retire themselves. Unfortunately the lack of replacements is stark.
Indeed, Tyrone have only won the 2 All-Ireland minor titles in the last 4 years after all. ;D There are some great young players in Tyrone and they just need the chance to prove themselves at senior level. With a number of Tyrone's senior players stepping aside the youngsters are now going to get their chance.
I would be happy enough if McGuigan gave it another go next season. A few posters have suggested he is past it and is no longer worth his place but the facts are that his form in 2011 was probably his best since his injury problems. I said earlier in the thread (when his retirement was first announced) that it was most unfortunate that Tyrone had not started the rebuild earlier and got a few younger lads in before this summer in to benefit from Brian McGuigan's playmaking skills. He might not have the legs but with fresher players around him he could still be a great influence for at least another summer.
I have no doubt that it's a positive for Tyrone football that we are seeing going to see a lot of new faces on the panel but it will help if a few of the old guard stick around - provided they are still worth their place. I would put McGuigan in that category, along with Gormley and and SON (and Jordan had he wanted to keep going and McGinley had he been able to get over his injuries). A mix of youth and experience is the way to go. We didn't get the mix right at all over the past couple of seasons with too many of the older players retained and not enough of the younger ones given a chance. A better balance is required next year and some of the veterans will be required.
I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 27, 2011, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 26, 2011, 05:18:15 PM
Its the lack of talent coming through in Tyrone thats the problem really. To be fair the players made the decision to retire themselves. Unfortunately the lack of replacements is stark.
Indeed, Tyrone have only won the 2 All-Ireland minor titles in the last 4 years after all. ;D There are some great young players in Tyrone and they just need the chance to prove themselves at senior level. With a number of Tyrone's senior players stepping aside the youngsters are now going to get their chance.
I would be happy enough if McGuigan gave it another go next season. A few posters have suggested he is past it and is no longer worth his place but the facts are that his form in 2011 was probably his best since his injury problems. I said earlier in the thread (when his retirement was first announced) that it was most unfortunate that Tyrone had not started the rebuild earlier and got a few younger lads in before this summer in to benefit from Brian McGuigan's playmaking skills. He might not have the legs but with fresher players around him he could still be a great influence for at least another summer.
I have no doubt that it's a positive for Tyrone football that we are seeing going to see a lot of new faces on the panel but it will help if a few of the old guard stick around - provided they are still worth their place. I would put McGuigan in that category, along with Gormley and and SON (and Jordan had he wanted to keep going and McGinley had he been able to get over his injuries). A mix of youth and experience is the way to go. We didn't get the mix right at all over the past couple of seasons with too many of the older players retained and not enough of the younger ones given a chance. A better balance is required next year and some of the veterans will be required.
In my opinion minor football has little or no relevence for senior football bar the top 5% of minor talent. The facts are Tyrone have done nothing at u21 level recently a far more crucial grade.
All a good minor team says is that they'll be good u21's. But tyrone look they have regressed unfortunately.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 28, 2011, 09:41:18 PM
The facts are Tyrone have done nothing at u21 level recently a far more crucial grade.
U21 football can be misleading too. A straight knock out competition played on bogging Wednesday nights in March. This sort of scheduling turns the thing into a bit of a lottery. Plenty of talented teams disappear without making a peep.
Quote from: ONeill on November 27, 2011, 10:55:23 PM
[
I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.
Totally agree ONeill. If you have a case however when a player wants to continue and is still good enough to make the team then I would hope that can be accomodated. A couple of lads returning to training in March shouldn't be a problem.
I see where you are coming from Indiana and progress at under 21 is certainly important. The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying but that minor team will still provide good players for Tyrone. Let's see how the 2010 boys get on at under 21. Either way it's plain wrong to look at the under age success in Tyrone over the past few years and say there is a "lack of talent coming through in Tyrone".
spuds, you're havering a load of p*sh.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 29, 2011, 12:56:45 PM
The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying
A strange comment. In 2008, the Tyrone minors narrowly beat Cavan. In 2011 the Tyrone U21s narrowly lost to Cavan. Hard to see much of a trend there.
That's right, tyrone won the minor in 08, we won it in 09. Just cause they don't go on to win ulster under 21 doesn't mean their no good. This stupid line 'minor success doesn't mean anything', well i'd much rather be winning them than winning damn all
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 29, 2011, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 27, 2011, 10:55:23 PM
[
I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.
Totally agree ONeill. If you have a case however when a player wants to continue and is still good enough to make the team then I would hope that can be accomodated. A couple of lads returning to training in March shouldn't be a problem.
I see where you are coming from Indiana and progress at under 21 is certainly important. The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying but that minor team will still provide good players for Tyrone. Let's see how the 2010 boys get on at under 21. Either way it's plain wrong to look at the under age success in Tyrone over the past few years and say there is a "lack of talent coming through in Tyrone".
spuds, you're havering a load of p*sh.
They wont be as good as the previous incumbents. Thats the reality for Tyrone fans.
If they were somewhere close they'd have done damage at u21 level. i'd be quite confident in making that prediction.
really its up to the 2010 minors to prove themselves up to the 21 grade first which I agree they could do yet. i'd literally write the 08 team largely off for senior county football.. Coney was the best player on that team and he still hasnt nailed down a place yet. County careers are getting shorter not longer.
Mickey not expecting anymore to leave according to the IN twitter
Irishnewssport Irish News Sport
In tomorrow's Irish News: Tyrone boss Mickey Harte doesn't expect any more Red Hand retirements.
Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 29, 2011, 08:18:43 PM
Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.
Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 29, 2011, 08:28:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 29, 2011, 08:18:43 PM
Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.
Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.
If U-21 football is such a yardstick then (for example) why haven't Galway done better at senior level? most players have to impress first at U-16,Minor before been considered for U-21 & as already said here that level can be misleading.
It has to be said though it is hard to believe how little change there has been in the Tyrone team given how successful they have been in minor over the last decade.
One team yes you would say ok it was a good team but maybe as individuals they just didn't cut it but to get so few through from so many all ireland minor champions.
Some of the players looked untouchable at minor level - Marc Cunningham, Kyle Coney etc etc but for so few to make it to senior teams is odd.
Year on year Tyrone are up there with the best in Ireland at minor and every year at university they dominate the teams yet so few over the last ten years have made it through. No-one can say the talent isn't there - but what is happening that it's not coming through to senior?
McGuigan and Jordan are leaving big roles (shoes) for someone coming through to fill.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 29, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 29, 2011, 08:28:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 29, 2011, 08:18:43 PM
Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.
Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.
If U-21 football is such a yardstick then (for example) why haven't Galway done better at senior level? most players have to impress first at U-16,Minor before been considered for U-21 & as already said here that level can
be misleading.
In my opinion minor is the most misleading grade of all. All minor says is that you reached the top level of the juvenile game.
At u21 level lads are already playing senior football and the transition is easier. A lot of star minors also have physical attributes that make them better then others at that age. By u21 some lads have got stronger and bigger.
I think tyrone would have to be genuinely concerned if their 2010 minor winning team doesnt do some damage at u21 level.
As regards Galway. Very poorly organised at senior level for the last couple of years. However Mullholland will put that right because there are some seriously good players there. And he trained most of them.
In the long run it is better for Tyrone that the stalwarts of 2003 onwards retire and that some of the younger players are given a chance.
They may have an average year or two (heres hoping) but at least it will allow some form of progress to be made. 6 or 7 of the team that started v Dublin were there in 2003 with a few more on the bench.
There is more than enough experience remaining with the likes of Cavanagh,Mulligan, Gormley,the McMahons to allow this transition to take place.
It's fair enough to say that Tyrone's minor teams haven't been progressing through to the senior team, but we have to acknowledge that that was an exceptional team to break into. Ok, they haven't won the all Ireland in a few years but you are replacing multi all iteland winners here. It would take an exceptional 19 year old to be deemed better than Jordan, Dooher, McGuigan et al. So the progress had been a little slower than perhaps it might have been. Maybe now these young lads will have their chance, they have waited a long time - let's hope they are chomping at the bit to prove they are good enough.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 29, 2011, 07:43:34 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 29, 2011, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 27, 2011, 10:55:23 PM
[
I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.
Totally agree ONeill. If you have a case however when a player wants to continue and is still good enough to make the team then I would hope that can be accomodated. A couple of lads returning to training in March shouldn't be a problem.
I see where you are coming from Indiana and progress at under 21 is certainly important. The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying but that minor team will still provide good players for Tyrone. Let's see how the 2010 boys get on at under 21. Either way it's plain wrong to look at the under age success in Tyrone over the past few years and say there is a "lack of talent coming through in Tyrone".
spuds, you're havering a load of p*sh.
They wont be as good as the previous incumbents. Thats the reality for Tyrone fans.
If they were somewhere close they'd have done damage at u21 level. i'd be quite confident in making that prediction.
really its up to the 2010 minors to prove themselves up to the 21 grade first which I agree they could do yet. i'd literally write the 08 team largely off for senior county football.. Coney was the best player on that team and he still hasnt nailed down a place yet. County careers are getting shorter not longer.
Coney and a few others on that team are already around the squad and members of the 2008 team will play key roles over the next few seasons.
I would expect at least 5 from the 08 and 10 Tyrone minor teams to have big rolls for Tyrone this year.
Quote from: EC Unique on November 30, 2011, 09:42:47 AM
I would expect at least 5 from the 08 and 10 Tyrone minor teams to have big rolls for Tyrone this year.
The like of Coney, McKenna, McNabb, Gervin, Mattie Donnelly, Grugan and O'Neill should make a good push this year. Peter Harte has already made the step.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 29, 2011, 08:28:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 29, 2011, 08:18:43 PM
Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.
Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.
IMO YO is overrated and overstated.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 29, 2011, 07:43:34 PM
They wont be as good as the previous incumbents. Thats the reality for Tyrone fans.
If they were somewhere close they'd have done damage at u21 level. i'd be quite confident in making that prediction.
really its up to the 2010 minors to prove themselves up to the 21 grade first which I agree they could do yet. i'd literally write the 08 team largely off for senior county football.. Coney was the best player on that team and he still hasnt nailed down a place yet. County careers are getting shorter not longer.
I don't recall anybody suggesting they would be. Not being as good as the previous incumbents however does not equate to "a lack of talent coming through".
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on November 30, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 29, 2011, 07:43:34 PM
They wont be as good as the previous incumbents. Thats the reality for Tyrone fans.
If they were somewhere close they'd have done damage at u21 level. i'd be quite confident in making that prediction.
really its up to the 2010 minors to prove themselves up to the 21 grade first which I agree they could do yet. i'd literally write the 08 team largely off for senior county football.. Coney was the best player on that team and he still hasnt nailed down a place yet. County careers are getting shorter not longer.
I don't recall anybody suggesting they would be. Not being as good as the previous incumbents however does not equate to "a lack of talent coming through".
Whether they will be as good as will be determined in the years ahead.
Quote from: EC Unique on November 30, 2011, 09:42:47 AM
I would expect at least 5 from the 08 and 10 Tyrone minor teams to have big rolls for Tyrone this year.
I'm sure you're right. Which is a shame because you'd think Tyrone would give up the playacting by now.
Quote from: EC Unique on November 30, 2011, 09:42:47 AM
I would expect at least 5 from the 08 and 10 Tyrone minor teams to have big rolls for Tyrone this year.
lads the thing you need to remember , is that it took quite a while for lads from that 2004 minor team to break through (cassidy,mccarron,red sean etc) are really only making an impact now, 5-6 years on.
there are also alot of big players form that team that never made it , like marlow, cunningham etc
You also have to remember that fellas like jordan & gormley wher not stars on the 98 minor team, players develop differently and players that maybe dont tand out as much at minor ,go on to senior football, and other minor stars disappear into obscuity
being a good minor isnt always a traightforward path into the senior squad, this isnt something thats unique to Tyrone
Could someone please pop up the Irish news article on mcguigan today. Cheers
I think the biggest comment to come out of todays interview was Brian's take on the effort that Dublin put in this year and in how difficult it will be to match that. I have heard that McCusker doesnt really want to play county, some lads are bound to be put off by the type of life you are expected to live. I get a feeling the hunger has gone out of the county, we have had our 3 All Irelands and the people arent as hungry for it any more. Yes we all like to go to Croke Park for big games but do our players want to train twice a day and live like monks to get there?
Quote from: The Trap on December 05, 2011, 08:37:28 PM
I think the biggest comment to come out of todays interview was Brian's take on the effort that Dublin put in this year and in how difficult it will be to match that. I have heard that McCusker doesnt really want to play county, some lads are bound to be put off by the type of life you are expected to live. I get a feeling the hunger has gone out of the county, we have had our 3 All Irelands and the people arent as hungry for it any more. Yes we all like to go to Croke Park for big games but do our players want to train twice a day and live like monks to get there?
that was a 2 page article today and maybe at best a paragraph devoted to the dublin game - in the same way cork did the job on tyrone a few years ago, Dublin were brilliant but the trick now is to sustain that effort for 2012. Dont read anything from the article other than McGuigans greatness - a good article on a great player, and nice compliments coming from Kerry too....he'll be missed and v hard to replace
Quote from: The Trap on December 05, 2011, 08:37:28 PM
I get a feeling the hunger has gone out of the county, we have had our 3 All Irelands and the people arent as hungry for it any more. Yes we all like to go to Croke Park for big games but do our players want to train twice a day and live like monks to get there?
But many now have no All-Irelands apart from minor and that should be enough in itself to create that drive for one. The new batch will need to stand on their own or they'll be unfavourably compared to the 03-08 brigade.
Since the good Galway team that reached All-Ireland finals in 98, 00 and 01 (winning 2) broke up, the county haven't even sniffed a final. Apart from Kerry repeatedly, the only county to reinvent themselves quickly as All-Ireland contenders were Meath. (87, 88, 90, 91 - then '96, '99 and '01). That's the challenge which faces Harte. Boylan did it.
Quote from: ONeill on December 05, 2011, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: The Trap on December 05, 2011, 08:37:28 PM
I get a feeling the hunger has gone out of the county, we have had our 3 All Irelands and the people arent as hungry for it any more. Yes we all like to go to Croke Park for big games but do our players want to train twice a day and live like monks to get there?
But many now have no All-Irelands apart from minor and that should be enough in itself to create that drive for one. The new batch will need to stand on their own or they'll be unfavourably compared to the 03-08 brigade.
Since the good Galway team that reached All-Ireland finals in 98, 00 and 01 (winning 2) broke up, the county haven't even sniffed a final. Apart from Kerry repeatedly, the only county to reinvent themselves quickly as All-Ireland contenders were Meath. (87, 88, 90, 91 - then '96, '99 and '01). That's the challenge which faces Harte. Boylan did it.
Go on Mickey lad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aye but Boylan was using performance enhancing herbs/natural remedies
Jordan saying on Twitter that Hughes has retired too..
Quote from: heffo on January 30, 2012, 09:08:05 PM
Jordan saying on Twitter that Hughes has retired too..
from @ officialgaa on Twitter:
QuoteGAA.ie can confirm that Tyrone's Kevin Hughes has announced his retirement from inter-county football. #gaa
A great player in Tyrone's history. Always thought he got an All-Star in '03 but seems he didn't. Just MOTM in the final. One of his best games was last year in Omagh v Antrim. Also memorable was a point v Kerry towards the end in the 2008 final.
He's married to a Derrytresk woman so rumours abound that when he talked about 'one more year' she was seen flicking through a heavyweight handbag catalogue, hastening his decision.
Handy player but couldn't hit a barndoor.
Not surprising, and what a contribution over the years, from Minor (as a star forward!) right through, to being pivotally instrumental in the 2008 AIF.
Maith an fear Kevin!
Was a major leader in the smashing down of heavens door. A magnificent aif, apparently was never fashionable enough to be an all star despite being ulster poy 2 years ago. His shooting gave us the odd laugh but his leadership qualities and gut busting football gave us the best 10 years of our lives.
Best of luck in retirement hub. What a man! Heart of a lion and had a great engine. You were always guaranteed to roar "ah for fcuk sake hub" at least 2 or 3 times a game but that added to the entertainment. Will always remember his lung bursting run from mf at the start of the 2nd half in the 08 final to set up tommy's goal. Could have burst the net himself but sure that would be too straight forward. Cheers for the memories hub!
I can remember around 2001 or 2002 when he was playing full forward and he took some lovely scores of both feet. As the years went by his shooting seemed to go a wee bit wonky.
As a man said yesterday, you'll miss the Russian Roulette he played with us in the stands, thinking 'will this be the day he takes my head clean off?'.
Great servant to the Tyrone cause,overcame personal tragedy and was a key player in Tyrone's success under Mickey.
Firstly - saddened to see one of the most popular footballers in Ulster retire. He brought great joy to many Tyrone fans, with inspirational performances on the biggest days... A more genuine decent fella you will not come across. He really made the most of what talent he had, and lived up to Hartes old motto "be the best you can be"
On a sidenote, I was caught by suprise by this call. I thought Harte had said before Christmas that there would be no more retiree's?
Bearing in mind Marty Swift was a regular last year & he has emigrated to Austriala we have lost 7 players now. As someone remarked on gaaboard before - we are currently witnessing the biggest disbandment of a team in GAA History.
Is there a cloud now over the futures of Ricey, Gormley & Davy Harte? Clearkly the wiley old maestro Harte is keeping his cards close to his chest but could the magnificent seven, become 8? ... or 9? or 10?
Whats the latest with Aidan Cassidy? Is he injured again?
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 31, 2012, 02:57:37 PM
Whats the latest with Aidan Cassidy? Is he injured again?
Yep, apparently so.
Sad to see big Hub go. Ok maybe not as inherently talented as Mc Guigan or Jordan but he was some servant to Tyrone football. A savage of a man in an age when midfield was beginning to be bypassed. Just as he was for Tyrone, I'd say he'll give Killeshil 100% devotion and commitment in the next number of years.
Another big game player gone - I always thought he did the donkey work that enabled Sean to have his freedom from midfield. Did a job for Tyrone that nobody else could for manys a year in midfield. Fair play to him and I wish him all the best for his retirement.
Sad to hear that Kevin has retired from the Tyrone team. Doesn't get enough credit for the work he has put in for Tyrone over the years, a real power horse. Always great to see him lining out, but I'd admit I always got nervous when I seen him going for a score.. ;)
Teamtalkmag have announced there's breaking news at 10pm on their website. Could there be another retirement?
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2012, 07:30:42 PM
Sad to hear that Kevin has retired from the Tyrone team. Doesn't get enough credit for the work he has put in for Tyrone over the years, a real power horse. Always great to see him lining out, but I'd admit I always got nervous when I seen him going for a score.. ;)
Teamtalkmag have announced there's breaking news at 10pm on their website. Could there be another retirement?
Teamtalkmag thinks it's Sky Sports News. They'll be reporting from outside Hub's house next!
Presume ye mean this from teamtalkmag.com
Tyrone's National league hopes have been dealt another blow ahead of this weekend's opener against Kildare with the news that Conor Gormley is to undergo surgery.
The three time All Star defender will have the procedure done at the Ulster Independent Clinic in Belfast on Friday to try and cure an ankle problem that has been plaguing him from last season. It's not thought to be a major operation although it's still likely to keep him on the sidelines for a month.
The news comes hot on the heels of an injury to Colm Cavanagh as well as Kevin Hughes' retirement and with Sean Cavanagh still to make his comeback from shoulder surgery it means that Owen Mulligan will be the only outfield player from the starting fifteen in the 2003 All Ireland Final available to Mickey Harte for the Croke Park date with Kieran McGeeney's Lily Whites.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2012, 07:30:42 PM
Teamtalkmag have announced there's breaking news at 10pm on their website. Could there be another retirement?
Greencastle have amalgamated with Kildress. They'll be called Greendress.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 31, 2012, 08:41:37 AM
I can remember around 2001 or 2002 when he was playing full forward and he took some lovely scores of both feet. As the years went by his shooting seemed to go a wee bit wonky.
I would agree with this, I also remember him getting some great scores in minor and under 21 football. For some reason it seemed that his shooting deteriorated as he got older ;D.
An excellent servant to Tyrone in senior and underage football since the late 90's. I thought perhaps his best years were behind him after he missed the 2005 season but it was to his great credit that he re-emerged to put in a big performance from the bench in the 2008 final and continued to play an important role over the last couple of seasons too. I think he has made the right decision now for what it's worth. Thanks Hub, you more than did your bit for Tyrone GAA.
Looks like the breaking news from team talk is just that conor gormley is out for a month with an anke injury. Is it just him and ricey to come back then? gormley will be great addition, was in good shape last year. Davey harte out of the reckoning now maybe anyway? Who all left from 97/98 now, mugsy, stevie, packie, is that it?
Regarding Hub, would this not be a big surprise to you tyrone folk, i mean were you all counting on him bein one of the few old heads to come back for a year to steady the ship?
Quote from: Orchardman on January 31, 2012, 11:49:47 PM
Looks like the breaking news from team talk is just that conor gormley is out for a month with an anke injury. Is it just him and ricey to come back then? gormley will be great addition, was in good shape last year. Davey harte out of the reckoning now maybe anyway? Who all left from 97/98 now, mugsy, stevie, packie, is that it?
And Sean Cav.
Quote from: Orchardman on January 31, 2012, 11:49:47 PM
Regarding Hub, would this not be a big surprise to you tyrone folk, i mean were you all counting on him bein one of the few old heads to come back for a year to steady the ship?
True, there was an expectation that he'd be back, but I'd say he delayed his decision until he saw how the newer lads coped (or otherwise) -- he'd have been there if he thought he were needed.
The increasing mountain of retirements gives even more weight to AZ's terrific eulogy last year - http://shane-sportsramblings.blogspot.com/2011/08/end-of-great-team-tyrone-tribute.html?spref=tw
I know sean cav played in the 03 final but wasn't he on the 01 minor team, wouldn't be the 97/98 vintage. himself and roney clarke would only be about 28
True enough Orchardman, he was 2001, and indeed ONeill!