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1. Tom Langan
2. Sean Flanagan
3. Ciaran MacDonald

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 29, 2009, 01:51:36 AM
1. Tom Langan
2. Sean Flanagan
3. Ciaran MacDonald

I can only go on players I've seen.......

1) Ciaran MacDonald
2) Liam MacHale
3) Ken Mortimer

I can't think of too many others from the 85-89 vintage (bar the one I've selected) that would merit inclusion over anyone on my list, Willie Joe perhaps. Padraig Brogan could have been the best footballer anyone has ever seen.

the 3 best
1)ciaran Mcdonald
2)aidan o shea
3)dermot flanaghan(would have ben james nallen but 2 Cross lads would raise suspicion of bias)

the 3 that coulda make a difference
1) mark butler
2)padraic Brogan
3)john maughan

Ciaran Mcdonald
Willie Joe Padden
Liam Mchale

Quote from: rosnarun on October 29, 2009, 02:53:51 AM
the 3 best
1)ciaran Mcdonald
2)aidan o shea
3)dermot flanaghan(would have ben james nallen but 2 Cross lads would raise suspicion of bias)

the 3 that coulda make a difference
1) mark butler
2)padraic Brogan
3)john maughan

Whoaa says Dan!

Quote from: rosnarun on October 29, 2009, 02:53:51 AM

2)aidan o shea

Thats a joke

1) Stephen Carolan (Best peno taker in all the land)
2) PJ Loftus
3) Shane Fitzmaurice

Honourable mentions to Brian Maloney and James Gill


::) :P

1. WJ Padden
2. McDonald
3. Anthony Finnerty

Geez, that’s an impossible one to answer!
I think it all depends on when I saw them in action and on how I was feeling at the time. You’d then have to think of their inspirational effect on those around them as well as their actual level of football skill.
I know I’ll never settle on any three (or 33) but I’ll nominate:

Joe Corcoran
Willie Joe Padden
Ciaran McDonald

I'll have to go with who ive seen in action:

Ciaran McDonald
James Nallen
Ken Mortimer

Some of these top 3s etc are pointless, but sure it's just a bit of harmless craic.

Going on those I've seen:
Ciarán McDonald
James Nallen
Willie Joe Padden - I was a bit young for WJ so memories aren't that clear, but I remember thinking he was an absolute legend

Sean Flanagan
Tommy Langan
Ciaran McDonald

I can't believe people are leaving out Sean Flanagan and Tommy Langan. That'd be someone leaving Christy Ring out of the top 3 Cork hurlers, just because they hadn't seen him play.

in my lifetime

1) Ciaran Mc
2) James Nallen
3) K Mort

Quote from: blanketattack on October 29, 2009, 11:48:04 AM
Sean Flanagan
Tommy Langan
Ciaran McDonald

I can't believe people are leaving out Sean Flanagan and Tommy Langan. That'd be someone leaving Christy Ring out of the top 3 Cork hurlers, just because they hadn't seen him play.

sorry blankett but i saw my 3 play and they were utter legends , i dont doubt your picks , i just never saw them and dont feel qualified to rank them..

Older informed opinion would lead one to believe that Padraic Carney and John Morley were great as was Tom Langan as a ff. Flanagan a brilliant leader and organiser/tactician.

In my time Willie Joe stands out as does McDonald and McHale, because even on an ordinary day for him he was usually the most influential player on the field. Then there s Nallen of course.

Those that were great losses to the county were Brogan, Ted Webb and Ger Geraghty.
Geraghty was probably the most complete player the last 30-40 years. He was the best player on the u21 team of 84 which had a few very good players.

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 09:46:44 AM

Quote from: rosnarun on October 29, 2009, 02:53:51 AM

2)aidan o shea

Thats a joke

no joke this guy is the real deal . he has the attitude the skill and is a natural footballer and can Lead mayo to another level.
Despite all the fine players we've had down the years there not many you could say that about
bookmasrk this page and tell me in 5 years im wrong

Quote from: rosnarun on October 29, 2009, 01:48:59 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 09:46:44 AM

Quote from: rosnarun on October 29, 2009, 02:53:51 AM

2)aidan o shea

Thats a joke

no joke this guy is the real deal . he has the attitude the skill and is a natural footballer and can Lead mayo to another level.
Despite all the fine players we've had down the years there not many you could say that about
bookmasrk this page and tell me in 5 years im wrong

What has he ever won or achieved?
Cop yourself on...

I would be looking at All-Stars to find the greatest...

1967
Seamus O'Connor
Joe Langan

1971
Johnny Carey

1979
Joe McGrath

1985
Dermot Flanagan
Willie Joe Padden
Kevin MsStay

1989
Gabriel Irwin
Jimmy Browne
Dermot Flanagan
Willie Joe Padden
Noel Durkin

1992
T.J.Kilgallon

1993
Kevin O'Neill

1996
Kenneth Mortimer
Pat Holmes
James Nallen
Liam McHale
James Horan

1997
Kenneth Mortimer
Pat Fallon

1999
James Horan

2004
James Nallen
Ciarán McDonald

2006
Alan Dillon
Conor Mortimer


Reflecting in that list, you have to respect each player for being one of the best of their era...

Top 5... no particular order...

Willie Joe Padden
James Nallen
Kenneth Mortimer
James Horan
Ciaran McDonald


After that, to narrow it down, you would be looking at the most influencial, and who performed on the big days...

David Brady
Tom Parsons
Kevin McStay

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 29, 2009, 03:57:22 PM
David Brady
Tom Parsons
Kevin McStay

Stick to Sligo football Seanie

Quote from: blanketattack on October 29, 2009, 11:48:04 AM
Sean Flanagan
Tommy Langan
Ciaran McDonald

I can't believe people are leaving out Sean Flanagan and Tommy Langan. That'd be someone leaving Christy Ring out of the top 3 Cork hurlers, just because they hadn't seen him play.

You could be right about Sean Flanagan and Tom Langan but I doubt many here could go on anything other than hearsay.  If you were to consider them as candidates you could consider Padraig Carney from that era also. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame for his contribution to the GAA and I have never heard dissent from anyone who knew him from that time no matter where they hailed from.
Me oul' fella often told me Patsy Flannelly from the 30s- 40s era was untouchable and he also had the greatest of praise for Purty Kelly and Gerard Courell. His view was shared by just about all of his contemporaries that I spoke to.
I am surprised that Kevin Cahill hasn't turned up on anyone's list. We still have come nowhere close to finding someone to fill his boots.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 29, 2009, 04:46:51 PM

Quote from: blanketattack on October 29, 2009, 11:48:04 AM
Sean Flanagan
Tommy Langan
Ciaran McDonald

I can't believe people are leaving out Sean Flanagan and Tommy Langan. That'd be someone leaving Christy Ring out of the top 3 Cork hurlers, just because they hadn't seen him play.

You could be right about Sean Flanagan and Tom Langan but I doubt many here could go on anything other than hearsay.  If you were to consider them as candidates you could consider Padraig Carney from that era also. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame for his contribution to the GAA and I have never heard dissent from anyone who knew him from that time no matter where they hailed from.
Me oul' fella often told me Patsy Flannelly from the 30s- 40s era was untouchable and he also had the greatest of praise for Purty Kelly and Gerard Courell. His view was shared by just about all of his contemporaries that I spoke to.
I am surprised that Kevin Cahill hasn't turned up on anyone's list. We still have come nowhere close to finding someone to fill his boots.

I dont know is it hearsay Lar, players from the 1950 and '51 team defiantly deserve a mention.

Two Mayo players from that era made it onto the
"GAA team of the Millennium", which is no small feat.

Left Corner Back - Sean Flanagan - Mayo/East Mayo/UCD
Full Forward - Tommy Langan - Mayo & Ballycastle

I suppose they would have to make the top three greatest list...
Flanagan also made it into the Tribune, GAA 125 most influential people list...
here is his piece:

47 Seán Flanagan, Ill See You When Ive The Sam Maguire

In 1949, after another All Ireland semi-final defeat, the Mayo County Board abandoned the tradition of county champions automatically assuming the county captaincy. If Mayo were to win an All Ireland, Seán Flanagan from Ballaghadereen had to be captain. The first thing Flanagan did upon receiving the honour was to tell the county chairman that he was to keep the rest of the board away from the team until he had collected the Sam Maguire. Once, when the boards reverend president strode into the teams training camp while the players were having lunch, Flanagan told him, "Get out Father and Ill see you when Ive the Sam Maguire." Which he duly lifted the following September and the September after that again. Left corner-back on the Team of the Millennium, he would bring the team over to watch Arsenal and their counter-attack –"the first pass out of defence is king; make it long, fast and accurate; the space is there" – and the shadowing skills of Joe Mercer.

Just because Kerry were winning All Irelands every few years, he fundamentally differed with Dr Eamonn OSullivans gospel of zonal, catch-and-kick football, and, as Raymond Smith put it, "lashing the ball in the air, waiting for the roar of the crowd"; possession was king. A lawyer, he would later serve as a member of cabinet in successive Jack Lynch governments. (1922-1993)

no joke this guy is the real deal . he has the attitude the skill and is a natural footballer and can Lead mayo to another level.
Despite all the fine players we've had down the years there not many you could say that about
bookmasrk this page and tell me in 5 years im wrong
[/quote]

Joke of the day...

In relation to the 1951 team, I had the pleasure of having a few pints with Paddy Prendergast around March/April this year.

Being a fellow clubman, he is somebody who I always wanted to meet, just to shake the hand as it were. He is a true hero and living legend, and since he is in his early 80's now (I think), I was really glad to have met him.

He is one of the strongest, fittest men for his age I have seen. I couldnt believe the strong hearty handshake, his energy and his general health.

He told some great stories about the players from the AI winning team of '50-'51. He described Flanagan, Carney and Langan as simply majestic and he really idolised them.

He had stories of grown men balling crying on the pitch after the 1950 final and how he met people after the game that had cycled from Belmullet to Balla to get the train to Dublin for the match.

Willie Joe
Kevin O'Neill
Ciarán McDonald

From what I have seen and remember..so the last 10 years or so...

Ciaran McDonald
Alan Dillon
David Brady

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 29, 2009, 04:46:51 PM

Quote from: blanketattack on October 29, 2009, 11:48:04 AM
Sean Flanagan
Tommy Langan
Ciaran McDonald

I can't believe people are leaving out Sean Flanagan and Tommy Langan. That'd be someone leaving Christy Ring out of the top 3 Cork hurlers, just because they hadn't seen him play.

You could be right about Sean Flanagan and Tom Langan but I doubt many here could go on anything other than hearsay.  If you were to consider them as candidates you could consider Padraig Carney from that era also. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame for his contribution to the GAA and I have never heard dissent from anyone who knew him from that time no matter where they hailed from.
Me oul' fella often told me Patsy Flannelly from the 30s- 40s era was untouchable and he also had the greatest of praise for Purty Kelly and Gerard Courell. His view was shared by just about all of his contemporaries that I spoke to.
I am surprised that Kevin Cahill hasn't turned up on anyone's list. We still have come nowhere close to finding someone to fill his boots.

Unfortunately never had the chance to see Gerald Courell play but he is regarded as one of the all time Mayo GAA greats, both on and off the field.

Gerald Courell(co trainer aka manager of the 50 and 51 team also), along with Paddy Moclair deserve a mention. Both captained Mayo for 3 years apiece of the 6 in a row league team in the 30's.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 29, 2009, 10:23:59 AM
Geez, that's an impossible one to answer!
I think it all depends on when I saw them in action and on how I was feeling at the time. You'd then have to think of their inspirational effect on those around them as well as their actual level of football skill.
I know I'll never settle on any three (or 33) but I'll nominate:

Joe Corcoran
Willie Joe Padden
Ciaran McDonald

Dosen't Lar Naparka seem fair wise just because of his picture...jaysus i'd listen to anything he has to say

I've been following Mayo football since Summer of 1995. When I was 7.

3 best I've seen are McDonald, Nallen in his heyday, McHale.

Awful pity we 'lost' O'Neill for his peak years.

Quote from: Eastern_Pride on October 29, 2009, 06:53:00 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 29, 2009, 10:23:59 AM
Geez, that's an impossible one to answer!
I think it all depends on when I saw them in action and on how I was feeling at the time. You'd then have to think of their inspirational effect on those around them as well as their actual level of football skill.
I know I'll never settle on any three (or 33) but I'll nominate:

Joe Corcoran
Willie Joe Padden
Ciaran McDonald

Dosen't Lar Naparka seem fair wise just because of his picture...jaysus i'd listen to anything he has to say

Janey, you seem to be following me about; I thought only Tubberman and Rossfan did that! ;D

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 01:40:53 PM

Older informed opinion would lead one to believe that Padraic Carney and John Morley were great as was Tom Langan as a ff. Flanagan a brilliant leader and organiser/tactician.

In my time Willie Joe stands out as does McDonald and McHale, because even on an ordinary day for him he was usually the most influential player on the field. Then there s Nallen of course.

Those that were great losses to the county were Brogan, Ted Webb and Ger Geraghty.
Geraghty was probably the most complete player the last 30-40 years. He was the best player on the u21 team of 84 which had a few very good players.

Moysider, Do you remember the time Morley lost the rag with Pateen Donnellan and chased after him down the sideline in Mchale Park? It was a CF, I think and Pateen was up to what Pateen did best. He was being a sneakyy little git.
Anyhow, he floored one of our smaller lads- Gay Nevin, I think and Morley saw it. With a roar  you''d hear behind the Reek, he made for Donnellan, who took off like a frightened rabbiit for the safety of the endline and jumped in amongst a crowd of Galway supporters.
he had about 30 yards of a headstart but Morley was closing in fast before Pateen got away.
The ref apparently didn't see anything- fair dues to the man.

Hard to ignore the two Team of the Millenium members and of course the Flying Doctor who Bosco McDermott once told me was better than Purcell.

But from what I have seen:

Liam McHale
McD
WJP

The 1st two were better players than Padden but WJP always delivered something when we needed it and that is why the crowd loved him.

James Nallen was an astonishing player in his heyday as were the likes of Joe McGrath, Ken Mortimer and Noel Durcan. Brogan never became what we hoped he would given that he probably had more talent than even McD. McStay on form was a fantastic player but in the 1980s 
small players usually got their jaws broken without so much as a yellow card and he was injured a lot. TJ Kilgallon is the sort of player we desperately need in the current team but quality like that doesn't come around too often.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 29, 2009, 07:39:04 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 01:40:53 PM

Older informed opinion would lead one to believe that Padraic Carney and John Morley were great as was Tom Langan as a ff. Flanagan a brilliant leader and organiser/tactician.

In my time Willie Joe stands out as does McDonald and McHale, because even on an ordinary day for him he was usually the most influential player on the field. Then there s Nallen of course.

Those that were great losses to the county were Brogan, Ted Webb and Ger Geraghty.
Geraghty was probably the most complete player the last 30-40 years. He was the best player on the u21 team of 84 which had a few very good players.

Moysider, Do you remember the time Morley lost the rag with Pateen Donnellan and chased after him down the sideline in Mchale Park? It was a CF, I think and Pateen was up to what Pateen did best. He was being a sneakyy little git.
Anyhow, he floored one of our smaller lads- Gay Nevin, I think and Morley saw it. With a roar  you''d hear behind the Reek, he made for Donnellan, who took off like a frightened rabbiit for the safety of the endline and jumped in amongst a crowd of Galway supporters.
he had about 30 yards of a headstart but Morley was closing in fast before Pateen got away.
The ref apparently didn't see anything- fair dues to the man.

Not old enough to have seen that one Lar. I saw Morley a couple of times as a kid. He had superhero status. Big, brilliant, decent and heroic. Still remember what I was doing when I heard he d been murdered. Hard to describe to younger lads the esteem he was held in around the county. Nobody comparable today. Archetypal Mayo footballer really. The type of player we used to like to think characterised our mission in football.

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 09:58:21 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 29, 2009, 07:39:04 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 01:40:53 PM

Older informed opinion would lead one to believe that Padraic Carney and John Morley were great as was Tom Langan as a ff. Flanagan a brilliant leader and organiser/tactician.

In my time Willie Joe stands out as does McDonald and McHale, because even on an ordinary day for him he was usually the most influential player on the field. Then there s Nallen of course.

Those that were great losses to the county were Brogan, Ted Webb and Ger Geraghty.
Geraghty was probably the most complete player the last 30-40 years. He was the best player on the u21 team of 84 which had a few very good players.

Moysider, Do you remember the time Morley lost the rag with Pateen Donnellan and chased after him down the sideline in Mchale Park? It was a CF, I think and Pateen was up to what Pateen did best. He was being a sneakyy little git.
Anyhow, he floored one of our smaller lads- Gay Nevin, I think and Morley saw it. With a roar  you''d hear behind the Reek, he made for Donnellan, who took off like a frightened rabbiit for the safety of the endline and jumped in amongst a crowd of Galway supporters.
he had about 30 yards of a headstart but Morley was closing in fast before Pateen got away.
The ref apparently didn't see anything- fair dues to the man.

Not old enough to have seen that one Lar. I saw Morley a couple of times as a kid. He had superhero status. Big, brilliant, decent and heroic. Still remember what I was doing when I heard he d been murdered. Hard to describe to younger lads the esteem he was held in around the county. Nobody comparable today. Archetypal Mayo footballer really. The type of player we used to like to think characterised our mission in football.

I think I know what you mean Moysider. A dog of war, a leader of men. A brave hearted man from the county Mayo. We're not breeding them anymore.



From reading House of Pain you'd nearly form the opinion that Padraig Carney was better than either Flanagan and Langan.

I've heard people whose opinion I would respect talk of John Morley, Joe Corcoran, Ted Webb and Ger Geraghty in reverential tones.

Of the players I've seen myself I'd highly rate Liam McHale, Willie Joe Padden, Noel Durkin, Padraig Brogan, Kevin McStay, TJ Kilgallon, James Nallen, Kenny Mortimer, James Horan, Ciaran McDonald, Alan Dillon and Kevin O'Neill.

How do you pick a top 3 from that?

I'd go with

3: James Nallen
2: Liam McHale
1: Ciaran McDonald.

Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

The three best players to play for Mayo were  (1) Sean Flanagan (2) Tom Langan (3)Peter Solon. Flanagan and Langan were picked for the Teams of the Century and the Milennium. Solan was a scoring machine from colleges right through senior. By the time he was 22 he had a Hogan cup, two senior All-Irelands, 4  senior Connacht titles, a national league and  railway cup winners medals.
He seems the forgotten man of Mayo football. In the Connacht final of 1951 he scored 3-2.
Of the  1960s early 1970s group John Morley, John Gibbons, Ray Prendergast and Joe Langan were worthy standard bearers. McDonald, Ken Mortimor and Pat Fallon with a nod towards Dave Brady  and James Horan in the last 20 years.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

Or were allowed to.

I too remember where I was at the time I heard the news and I was very close to tears when I was told it by a garda at a checkpoint in sheep country. I  was coming down from Dublin to visit the parents that day. We happened to know each other and he first told me to pull in and switch off the engine as he had some shocking news for me. He had tears in his eyes and I was unable to drive on for a good ten minutes when he told me John had been shot.
The respect and admiration for that man was unbelievable and it would be impossible to explain this to anyone who is too young to remember him in his prime.
I know damn well the ref that day saw it all but pretended not to notice. It was well known that John Morley was fearless but wouldn't hurt a child. If he ran after Pateen, Pateen deserved it and I heard no complaints from a single Galwegian either.

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 02:43:39 PM


Top 5... no particular order...

Willie Joe Padden
James Nallen
Kenneth Mortimer
James Horan
Ciaran McDonald


After that, to narrow it down, you would be looking at the most influencial, and who performed on the big days...

Abbeysider, you may not believe it but I have a list on front of me on a post-it, started with about twenty players, and got whittled down to those exact 5 (Liam Mc being the last one to get culled).

Impossible to narrow it down further. Great thread

Kenny Mort would be an addition to my list too, great player

QuoteIn relation to the 1951 team, I had the pleasure of having a few pints with Paddy Prendergast around March/April this year.

Being a fellow clubman, he is somebody who I always wanted to meet, just to shake the hand as it were. He is a true hero and living legend, and since he is in his early 80's now (I think), I was really glad to have met him.

He is one of the strongest, fittest men for his age I have seen. I couldnt believe the strong hearty handshake, his energy and his general health.

He told some great stories about the players from the AI winning team of '50-'51. He described Flanagan, Carney and Langan as simply majestic and he really idolised them.

He had stories of grown men balling crying on the pitch after the 1950 final and how he met people after the game that had cycled from Belmullet to Balla to get the train to Dublin for the match.

Just to echo that. Paddy P is as much of a legend as you can get around Ballintubber (and probably Mayo). He is so fit that you easily mistake him for a man in his 60s. He's a great talker and can recall endless stories. I've met him a few times including entering or leaving Croke Park on AIF day, and he was as p*ssed off as any of us after the last couple of times. Also met him at U21 semi against Down in Longford this year - he was over talking to Martin Carney, and kissing his wife and daughter. Good ould Paddy lol  :D

Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

Agreed. I remember seeing numerous jerseys in 1996 with the number 8 and GOD printed on the back.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

In the last page I was re-counting All-Star awards.

Horan has two and McHale has one, thats why I had him on the list ahead of McHale.

I dont know about McHale being consistently excellent for that 9 year spell. One thing I remember of McHale is him being afraid of the posts, even from point blank range he would recycle it out if he couldnt fist it over. He took a score now and again but for the most part I feel he didnt always take his chances. Im not sure was it a confidence issue but he got fair stick from the crowd for it.

Now dont get me wrong, I think McHale was the best mid-fielder we have ever had in Mayo.
He had fantastic grace, and made the ball look like an extension of himself. He was very fluent and had huge impacts on the game. I dont know why he didnt win more All-Star awards for his efforts.

I wont argue with ye, because its a matter of opinion. McHale was one of the best in the country in 1996, as was Horan in 1996 and 1999.

Half a dozen in one, 6 in the other...

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 09:42:08 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

In the last page I was re-counting All-Star awards.

Horan has two and McHale has one, thats why I had him on the list ahead of McHale.

I dont know about McHale being consistently excellent for that 9 year spell. One thing I remember of McHale is him being afraid of the posts, even from point blank range he would recycle it out if he couldnt fist it over. He took a score now and again but for the most part I feel he didnt always take his chances. Im not sure was it a confidence issue but he got fair stick from the crowd for it.

Now dont get me wrong, I think McHale was the best mid-fielder we have ever had in Mayo.
He had fantastic grace, and made the ball look like an extension of himself. He was very fluent and had huge impacts on the game. I dont know why he didnt win more All-Star awards for his efforts.

I wont argue with ye, because its a matter of opinion. McHale was one of the best in the country in 1996, as was Horan in 1996 and 1999.

Half a dozen in one, 6 in the other...

Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:49:37 AM
Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Willie Joe again has two All-Stars, and had the versitility of playing in the forwards and rarely went a game without getting a score. He played from 1977-1992 (I think) and would just shave it ahead of McHale in my book.

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

Agreed. I remember seeing numerous jerseys in 1996 with the number 8 and GOD printed on the back.

That was in Ballina.

In Castlebar we had the number 8 with Mother Teresa printed on the back.

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

Agreed. I remember seeing numerous jerseys in 1996 with the number 8 and GOD printed on the back.

That was in Ballina.

In Castlebar we had the number 8 with Mother Teresa printed on the back.

Was that because she was Castlebars best chance of having a player on the county team at the time?? ;D

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 10:41:58 AM

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Lads there is no way James Horan can be in a top 3 ahead of Liam McHale. McHale was consistently excellent from 1988 to 1997. James Horan played from 1996 to 1999 essentially (and lost his place in 1997). He was a very good player but to put him in the top 3 is not right imo. He may have picked up two baubles and McHale only one but Jesus, McHale was the best player in the country in 1996. How often can you say that about a Mayo player?

Agreed. I remember seeing numerous jerseys in 1996 with the number 8 and GOD printed on the back.

That was in Ballina.

In Castlebar we had the number 8 with Mother Teresa printed on the back.

Was that because she was Castlebars best chance of having a player on the county team at the time?? ;D

She would probably have done better than poor Tom Reilly!

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 04:20:22 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 29, 2009, 03:57:22 PM
David Brady
Tom Parsons
Kevin McStay

Stick to Sligo football Seanie

There's an obvious answer which I'll just not bother typing.  ;)

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2009, 11:00:31 AM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 04:20:22 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 29, 2009, 03:57:22 PM
David Brady
Tom Parsons
Kevin McStay

Stick to Sligo football Seanie

There's an obvious answer which I'll just not bother typing.  ;)

Without agreeing without (obviously!), I see the point you're trying to make but McStay is from the west bank of the Moy I thought.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 30, 2009, 11:07:12 AM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2009, 11:00:31 AM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 04:20:22 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 29, 2009, 03:57:22 PM
David Brady
Tom Parsons
Kevin McStay

Stick to Sligo football Seanie

There's an obvious answer which I'll just not bother typing.  ;)

Without agreeing without (obviously!), I see the point you're trying to make but McStay is from the west bank of the Moy I thought.

Correct. Killala road.

McStay was just thrown in because of his obvious deep love for all things Sligo as well as my undying admiration for him!

They were all throwaway really. Bit of a laugh. Was hoping to catch a few more but failed dismally. just the one.

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 10:02:59 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:49:37 AM
Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Willie Joe again has two All-Stars, and had the versitility of playing in the forwards and rarely went a game without getting a score. He played from 1977-1992 (I think) and would just shave it ahead of McHale in my book.

For my tuppence worth, Liam was indeed the best midfielder we have had – but only for a limited time.
He was a slow developer and only reached his full potential around the time of the ’96 final. He had spent a long number of years getting there, whereas Wilie Joe rose to the top and stayed there for a much longer spell.
Liam played against the Dubs in ’85 and he was as ungainly and awkward as could be. The Dub supporters jeered every time he tried to solo and I’m afraid they had good reason to. But he was able to gain possession and distribute the ball better than anyone else even then. His timing and his ability with the ball in his hand was undisputed but once he tried any sort of footwork, his inexperience showed up. Fair dues to him, he persevered and by ’96 he was almost the finished article but he was never good at shooting for points. Like Ciaran Mac was to be, he scored some spectacular long range ones alright but he missed far more from easy positions and he did insist on having a go when he could have been better off passing it to a better placed colleague.
Shooting did not come easily to Liam but he insisted on having a go far too many times. 
Willie Joe was consistent and never failed to give it his best shot and I cannot recall a single game where he was outplayed by any marker from any other county. You could also add that Mayo had the best defence in the country in the mid 90s and Liam had plenty of able colleagues to help him out, whereas the same couldn’t be said for Wilie Joe. There were always some good players behind him but Liam had generally better all around support.
I would be very glad to have either back right now but I wouldn’t attempt to compare them one to one. Different times and different teams, I guess.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 12:21:01 PM
Willie Joe... Liam McHale...
I would be very glad to have either back right now but I wouldn't attempt to compare them one to one. Different times and different teams, I guess.

Jez Lar I dont know about that.
Sure Willie Joe must be in his 50's at this stage and McHale would probably be in his 40's would he?

It would be a big ask...  ;) :P

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 12:59:06 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 12:21:01 PM
Willie Joe... Liam McHale...
I would be very glad to have either back right now but I wouldn’t attempt to compare them one to one. Different times and different teams, I guess.

Jez Lar I dont know about that.
Sure Willie Joe must be in his 50's at this stage and McHale would probably be in his 40's would he?

It would be a big ask...  ;) :P

First of all, if I don't get away from this computer, I've just been told I better go and graze the long acre if I want to get any dinner. ;D
Do you ever hear that one before.
With regard to Liam and Willie Joe, I could give you a very direct answer to that one but I don't want to offend a townie of yours any more than I have to!

massively enjoying this thread lads..

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 01:14:30 PM
First of all, if I don't get away from this computer, I've just been told I better go and graze the long acre if I want to get any dinner. ;D
Do you ever hear that one before.

I heard it before but I have to plead ignorance...
I think it means "hitting the road" as the long acre is the grassy verges on the side of the road!
Its a good one, and ill have to use it again!

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 01:14:30 PM
With regard to Liam and Willie Joe, I could give you a very direct answer to that one but I don't want to offend a townie of yours any more than I have to!

I can imagine!  ;)

Speaking of mid-fielders... What of the great Colm McManamon ?

A rough diamond I tell ya...
One of the strongest men ever to wear the green and red...

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 10:02:59 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:49:37 AM
Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Willie Joe again has two All-Stars, and had the versitility of playing in the forwards and rarely went a game without getting a score. He played from 1977-1992 (I think) and would just shave it ahead of McHale in my book.

For my tuppence worth, Liam was indeed the best midfielder we have had – but only for a limited time.
He was a slow developer and only reached his full potential around the time of the '96 final. He had spent a long number of years getting there, whereas Wilie Joe rose to the top and stayed there for a much longer spell.
Liam played against the Dubs in '85 and he was as ungainly and awkward as could be. The Dub supporters jeered every time he tried to solo and I'm afraid they had good reason to. But he was able to gain possession and distribute the ball better than anyone else even then. His timing and his ability with the ball in his hand was undisputed but once he tried any sort of footwork, his inexperience showed up. Fair dues to him, he persevered and by '96 he was almost the finished article but he was never good at shooting for points. Like Ciaran Mac was to be, he scored some spectacular long range ones alright but he missed far more from easy positions and he did insist on having a go when he could have been better off passing it to a better placed colleague.
Shooting did not come easily to Liam but he insisted on having a go far too many times. 
Willie Joe was consistent and never failed to give it his best shot and I cannot recall a single game where he was outplayed by any marker from any other county. You could also add that Mayo had the best defence in the country in the mid 90s and Liam had plenty of able colleagues to help him out, whereas the same couldn't be said for Wilie Joe. There were always some good players behind him but Liam had generally better all around support.
I would be very glad to have either back right now but I wouldn't attempt to compare them one to one. Different times and different teams, I guess.

Lar I don't think Liam played in those games in 1985. I always thought his 1st appearance in Croker was against Monaghan in the League quarter final in 1986.

Accordng to http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749 (http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749) this was the team against Roscommon in the Connacht Final and I don't think Liam McHale came in after that.

MAYO: Eugene Lavin; Martin Carney, Peter Forde, Dermot Flanagan; Frank Noone, John Maughan, John Finn; TJ Kilgallon, WJ Padden; Henry Gavin (0-1), Jimmy Burke, Noel Durcan (1-1); Kevin McStay (0-7, five frees, one '50'), Sean Lowry (1-0), Eugene McHale (0-2).  Subs: Padraig Brogan for Gavin, Des McHale for Brogan, Billy Fitzpatrick for McHale.

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 02:22:34 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 10:02:59 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:49:37 AM
Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Willie Joe again has two All-Stars, and had the versitility of playing in the forwards and rarely went a game without getting a score. He played from 1977-1992 (I think) and would just shave it ahead of McHale in my book.

...
Liam played against the Dubs in '85 and he was as ungainly and awkward as could be.

Lar I don't think Liam played in those games in 1985. I always thought his 1st appearance in Croker was against Monaghan in the League quarter final in 1986.

Accordng to http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749 (http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749) this was the team against Roscommon in the Connacht Final and I don't think Liam McHale came in after that.

MAYO: Eugene Lavin; Martin Carney, Peter Forde, Dermot Flanagan; Frank Noone, John Maughan, John Finn; TJ Kilgallon, WJ Padden; Henry Gavin (0-1), Jimmy Burke, Noel Durcan (1-1); Kevin McStay (0-7, five frees, one '50'), Sean Lowry (1-0), Eugene McHale (0-2).  Subs: Padraig Brogan for Gavin, Des McHale for Brogan, Billy Fitzpatrick for McHale.

Liam McHale played in 85/86 NFL division 2
against Donegal (in Charlestown),
against Galway (in Balllina),
against Longford (in Longford)
and against Dublin in McHale park (1/12/1985)....

That could be the game Lar is on about?

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 02:22:34 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 10:02:59 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:49:37 AM
Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Willie Joe again has two All-Stars, and had the versitility of playing in the forwards and rarely went a game without getting a score. He played from 1977-1992 (I think) and would just shave it ahead of McHale in my book.

For my tuppence worth, Liam was indeed the best midfielder we have had – but only for a limited time.
He was a slow developer and only reached his full potential around the time of the ’96 final. He had spent a long number of years getting there, whereas Wilie Joe rose to the top and stayed there for a much longer spell.
Liam played against the Dubs in ’85 and he was as ungainly and awkward as could be. The Dub supporters jeered every time he tried to solo and I’m afraid they had good reason to. But he was able to gain possession and distribute the ball better than anyone else even then. His timing and his ability with the ball in his hand was undisputed but once he tried any sort of footwork, his inexperience showed up. Fair dues to him, he persevered and by ’96 he was almost the finished article but he was never good at shooting for points. Like Ciaran Mac was to be, he scored some spectacular long range ones alright but he missed far more from easy positions and he did insist on having a go when he could have been better off passing it to a better placed colleague.
Shooting did not come easily to Liam but he insisted on having a go far too many times. 
Willie Joe was consistent and never failed to give it his best shot and I cannot recall a single game where he was outplayed by any marker from any other county. You could also add that Mayo had the best defence in the country in the mid 90s and Liam had plenty of able colleagues to help him out, whereas the same couldn’t be said for Wilie Joe. There were always some good players behind him but Liam had generally better all around support.
I would be very glad to have either back right now but I wouldn’t attempt to compare them one to one. Different times and different teams, I guess.

Lar I don't think Liam played in those games in 1985. I always thought his 1st appearance in Croker was against Monaghan in the League quarter final in 1986.

Accordng to http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749 (http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749) this was the team against Roscommon in the Connacht Final and I don't think Liam McHale came in after that.

MAYO: Eugene Lavin; Martin Carney, Peter Forde, Dermot Flanagan; Frank Noone, John Maughan, John Finn; TJ Kilgallon, WJ Padden; Henry Gavin (0-1), Jimmy Burke, Noel Durcan (1-1); Kevin McStay (0-7, five frees, one ‘50’), Sean Lowry (1-0), Eugene McHale (0-2).  Subs: Padraig Brogan for Gavin, Des McHale for Brogan, Billy Fitzpatrick for McHale.

Geez, muppet, I stand corrected here.
It was the semi against Meath in ‘88 that I was referring to.
I was in with a crowd of Dublin fans up on the Cusack for that game and I got almighty stick from the whole effin lot of them every time Liam looked down at his boots so that’s why  the Dubs jeering stuck in my mind.

I was at the semis in ’85 and ’88 so I’m afraid I mixed them up.

Abbeysider,
Colm Mac was a great player without doubt. He was tireless and never, ever slackened off- a lot like Shane Ryan for Dublin in more recent times. But for all of that, he was very awkward and inaccurate in his passing and shooting.
Right now, the chances of a bit of domestic harmony for the foreseeable future is about as remote as Mayo’s chances of an All Ireland - or the possibility of Sligonian shutting up.  ;D
Here’s another quote for ya and it comes straight from the heart;_

“Women are meant to be loved; not understood.”
That was Oscar Wilde’s opinion and right now I’m in full agreement with him- on this one anyway!

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 10:27:15 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

Or were allowed to.

I'm glad you said that, moysider not me. At least I'm not the only one who thinks their talents were wasted. Staunton maybe the exception because he was given a chance, but if we had Butler in CHB in 96, I do think of what could've been...

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 30, 2009, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 10:27:15 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

Or were allowed to.

I'm glad you said that, moysider not me. At least I'm not the only one who thinks their talents were wasted. Staunton maybe the exception because he was given a chance, but if we had Butler in CHB in 96, I do think of what could've been...

Instead of that year's All Star CHB Jimmy Nallen?

I played against Butler and he was a fine player but remember we had two all stars that year in our half back line and the 3rd was Noel Kennelly who wasn't half bad either.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 03:20:12 PM

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 02:22:34 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 30, 2009, 10:02:59 AM

Quote from: ballinaman on October 30, 2009, 09:49:37 AM
Thats fair enough, I can understand your line of thinking but WJP makes your list  ahead of McHale even though you say McHale was the best mid-fielder we ever had....

Willie Joe again has two All-Stars, and had the versitility of playing in the forwards and rarely went a game without getting a score. He played from 1977-1992 (I think) and would just shave it ahead of McHale in my book.

For my tuppence worth, Liam was indeed the best midfielder we have had – but only for a limited time.
He was a slow developer and only reached his full potential around the time of the '96 final. He had spent a long number of years getting there, whereas Wilie Joe rose to the top and stayed there for a much longer spell.
Liam played against the Dubs in '85 and he was as ungainly and awkward as could be. The Dub supporters jeered every time he tried to solo and I'm afraid they had good reason to. But he was able to gain possession and distribute the ball better than anyone else even then. His timing and his ability with the ball in his hand was undisputed but once he tried any sort of footwork, his inexperience showed up. Fair dues to him, he persevered and by '96 he was almost the finished article but he was never good at shooting for points. Like Ciaran Mac was to be, he scored some spectacular long range ones alright but he missed far more from easy positions and he did insist on having a go when he could have been better off passing it to a better placed colleague.
Shooting did not come easily to Liam but he insisted on having a go far too many times. 
Willie Joe was consistent and never failed to give it his best shot and I cannot recall a single game where he was outplayed by any marker from any other county. You could also add that Mayo had the best defence in the country in the mid 90s and Liam had plenty of able colleagues to help him out, whereas the same couldn't be said for Wilie Joe. There were always some good players behind him but Liam had generally better all around support.
I would be very glad to have either back right now but I wouldn't attempt to compare them one to one. Different times and different teams, I guess.

Lar I don't think Liam played in those games in 1985. I always thought his 1st appearance in Croker was against Monaghan in the League quarter final in 1986.

Accordng to http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749 (http://mayogaablog.com/?p=2749) this was the team against Roscommon in the Connacht Final and I don't think Liam McHale came in after that.

MAYO: Eugene Lavin; Martin Carney, Peter Forde, Dermot Flanagan; Frank Noone, John Maughan, John Finn; TJ Kilgallon, WJ Padden; Henry Gavin (0-1), Jimmy Burke, Noel Durcan (1-1); Kevin McStay (0-7, five frees, one '50'), Sean Lowry (1-0), Eugene McHale (0-2).  Subs: Padraig Brogan for Gavin, Des McHale for Brogan, Billy Fitzpatrick for McHale.

Geez, muppet, I stand corrected here.
It was the semi against Meath in '88 that I was referring to.
I was in with a crowd of Dublin fans up on the Cusack for that game and I got almighty stick from the whole effin lot of them every time Liam looked down at his boots so that's why  the Dubs jeering stuck in my mind.

I was at the semis in '85 and '88 so I'm afraid I mixed them up.

Abbeysider,
Colm Mac was a great player without doubt. He was tireless and never, ever slackened off- a lot like Shane Ryan for Dublin in more recent times. But for all of that, he was very awkward and inaccurate in his passing and shooting.
Right now, the chances of a bit of domestic harmony for the foreseeable future is about as remote as Mayo's chances of an All Ireland - or the possibility of Sligonian shutting up.  ;D
Here's another quote for ya and it comes straight from the heart;_

"Women are meant to be loved; not understood."
That was Oscar Wilde's opinion and right now I'm in full agreement with him- on this one anyway!

Whatever about your Dublin friends Lar I dont remember Liam doing much wrong in 88. He was targeted too and took a hammering and still with only one arm any use he was sent in ff and got a goal with another disallowed as far as I remember. I remember meeting him the Tuesday night after and his shoulder and back looked like he d been in a car crash.

I remember some gammy Dublin midfielders in my time. Likes of Jim Ronayne and Declan Bolger were no Christmas tree fairies.

Back to McHale. He did nt play club until minor and his feet never really caught up. But I would argue that he still scored more than Willie Joe including at least 2 championship goals. I dont recollect Willie Joe ever score a championship goal. Not having a go at WJP but his distribution could be wicked while very few players have McHale's radar on the field. His link with Nallen v Kerry in 96 perfect.

McHale could never make a fist of full-forward for some reason. Johnno started this failed initiative 91 in the Hyde. McHale was started at ff even though we were playing into a gale and Killoran and Newton took command at midfield against TJ and a young Colm Mac I think. It was silly stuff and still annoys me to this day.

No muppet, I mean to bring him on to close the game out. Meath were coming in waves at us for the last 20 minutes and we just needed someone to read the game correctly and to stop the flow and to get the ball. That's what I mean, if to put him on in front of Nallen inself!

Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2009, 04:43:37 PM
Whatever about your Dublin friends Lar I dont remember Liam doing much wrong in 88. He was targeted too and took a hammering and still with only one arm any use he was sent in ff and got a goal with another disallowed as far as I remember. I remember meeting him the Tuesday night after and his shoulder and back looked like he d been in a car crash.

I remember some gammy Dublin midfielders in my time. Likes of Jim Ronayne and Declan Bolger were no Christmas tree fairies.

Back to McHale. He did nt play club until minor and his feet never really caught up. But I would argue that he still scored more than Willie Joe including at least 2 championship goals. I dont recollect Willie Joe ever score a championship goal. Not having a go at WJP but his distribution could be wicked while very few players have McHale's radar on the field. His link with Nallen v Kerry in 96 perfect.

McHale could never make a fist of full-forward for some reason. Johnno started this failed initiative 91 in the Hyde. McHale was started at ff even though we were playing into a gale and Killoran and Newton took command at midfield against TJ and a young Colm Mac I think. It was silly stuff and still annoys me to this day.

I would say he was the most effective Mayo player on view that day against Meath.The only fault one could find was
his insistence on trying to solo at every opportunity and the poor fist he made of it. But in most other respects
he was very good and Meath had  men deployed to watch him like a hawk. The pulling and dragging was something
fierce and I'm surprised how much dirt he put up with-or the ref let Meath away with.
I wasn't too impressed either with Liam's colleagues who were content to stand back and leave him to fight it out
with two or three opponents every time he went for a ball.
I give him great credit for the effort he was to put in over the years to improve all aspects of his game. I'd say
that by '96 he was the most complete all rounder in the country.

I would certainly have him in front of WJ when both were at their peak and that is the height of praise for any man.
But WJ was at his peak or thereabouts for a much longer period and he was never to play with a team of the calibre of the side in '96. Only Ciaran Mac in later years could match Liam for his radar  and both were far ahead of any others I have seen. Unfortunately, they both shared another trait and that was their unreliability when taking shots at goal.
That was always a problem with Willie Joe; his brain and his boots didn't always work in harmony.
I had always assumed that Liam's reluctance or maybe downright refusal to play FF was the reason he didn't move in there.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 30, 2009, 06:31:58 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2009, 04:43:37 PM
Whatever about your Dublin friends Lar I dont remember Liam doing much wrong in 88. He was targeted too and took a hammering and still with only one arm any use he was sent in ff and got a goal with another disallowed as far as I remember. I remember meeting him the Tuesday night after and his shoulder and back looked like he d been in a car crash.

I remember some gammy Dublin midfielders in my time. Likes of Jim Ronayne and Declan Bolger were no Christmas tree fairies.

Back to McHale. He did nt play club until minor and his feet never really caught up. But I would argue that he still scored more than Willie Joe including at least 2 championship goals. I dont recollect Willie Joe ever score a championship goal. Not having a go at WJP but his distribution could be wicked while very few players have McHale's radar on the field. His link with Nallen v Kerry in 96 perfect.

McHale could never make a fist of full-forward for some reason. Johnno started this failed initiative 91 in the Hyde. McHale was started at ff even though we were playing into a gale and Killoran and Newton took command at midfield against TJ and a young Colm Mac I think. It was silly stuff and still annoys me to this day.

I would say he was the most effective Mayo player on view that day against Meath.The only fault one could find was
his insistence on trying to solo at every opportunity and the poor fist he made of it. But in most other respects
he was very good and Meath had  men deployed to watch him like a hawk. The pulling and dragging was something
fierce and I'm surprised how much dirt he put up with-or the ref let Meath away with.
I wasn't too impressed either with Liam's colleagues who were content to stand back and leave him to fight it out
with two or three opponents every time he went for a ball.
I give him great credit for the effort he was to put in over the years to improve all aspects of his game. I'd say
that by '96 he was the most complete all rounder in the country.

I would certainly have him in front of WJ when both were at their peak and that is the height of praise for any man.
But WJ was at his peak or thereabouts for a much longer period and he was never to play with a team of the calibre of the side in '96. Only Ciaran Mac in later years could match Liam for his radar  and both were far ahead of any others I have seen. Unfortunately, they both shared another trait and that was their unreliability when taking shots at goal.
That was always a problem with Willie Joe; his brain and his boots didn't always work in harmony.
I had always assumed that Liam's reluctance or maybe downright refusal to play FF was the reason he didn't move in there.

enjoying the thread and will have to think a bit more about my favourite 3 Mc d will definitely be it it for me anyway. I know when MC was younger and 1st came on the scene he was a bit shoot on site and some went over some didn't but as he got older his shot selection definitely improved in fairness a lot of mayo supporters were saying he was playing too far from goal as he was one of our best scorers. the thing i liked when watching MC and i have travelled many miles to see him ( he is not from my club) was despite the skill he had people forgot about the strength of the man and the way he was able to make space while holding the ball in one hand while holding the opponent off with the other and despite all the abuse he got from opponents he never retaliated, only by putting another one over the blackspot .

Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2009, 04:43:37 PM
McHale could never make a fist of full-forward for some reason. Johnno started this failed initiative 91 in the Hyde. McHale was started at ff even though we were playing into a gale and Killoran and Newton took command at midfield against TJ and a young Colm Mac I think. It was silly stuff and still annoys me to this day.

Apologies to ye all in advance - I hope I'm not hijacking yeer 'Three Greatest Players' thread? Moysider's point above has caught my eye and gotten me thinking back on that game, which raises a point that may even be relevant in some small way to the discussion here.

While John Newton caught the eye that day, LMc playing further forward didn't make that much of an impact. You can generally legitimately argue that his talents weren't being maximised in assuming a role as a playmaker-cum-scoring forward all right, as he hadn't the quality of kicking skills to be a scoring forward, but I suspect the Mayo management well realised that Newton had the beating of LMc at that time and accordingly opted to play him further forward against Ros, in the expectation of him being more effective (against Ros) in the forwards.  I think Newton had previously cleaned LMc when he moved out to try and curb Newton's midfield influence in the drawn game as well.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the McHale - Newton duels \ respective team management selection policies back then, if any, Moysider? Or perhaps you think LMc would have had the beating of Newton the second day, even after the the drawn game?

When WJP came on in the second half that day, it provided - not for the first time - an expected huge boost to Mayo, helping to turn back the tide at midfield somewhat, before Paul Earley moved out to regain the midfield initiative for Ros. WJ tended to be a great impact player for ye against us in those later years, despite being plauged by injuries. He could still be relied on to field a few high ones and was always hugely inspirational to the fans and the rest of the team when introduced.

Quote from: spectator on October 30, 2009, 07:50:59 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2009, 04:43:37 PM
McHale could never make a fist of full-forward for some reason. Johnno started this failed initiative 91 in the Hyde. McHale was started at ff even though we were playing into a gale and Killoran and Newton took command at midfield against TJ and a young Colm Mac I think. It was silly stuff and still annoys me to this day.

Apologies to ye all in advance - I hope I'm not hijacking yeer 'Three Greatest Players' thread? Moysider's point above has caught my eye and gotten me thinking back on that game, which raises a point that may even be relevant in some small way to the discussion here.

While John Newton caught the eye that day, LMc playing further forward didn't make that much of an impact. You can generally legitimately argue that his talents weren't being maximised in assuming a role as a playmaker-cum-scoring forward all right, as he hadn't the quality of kicking skills to be a scoring forward, but I suspect the Mayo management well realised that Newton had the beating of LMc at that time and accordingly opted to play him further forward against Ros, in the expectation of him being more effective (against Ros) in the forwards.  I think Newton had previously cleaned LMc when he moved out to try and curb Newton's midfield influence in the drawn game as well.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the McHale - Newton duels \ respective team management selection policies back then, if any, Moysider? Or perhaps you think LMc would have had the beating of Newton the second day, even after the the drawn game?

When WJP came on in the second half that day, it provided - not for the first time - an expected huge boost to Mayo, helping to turn back the tide at midfield somewhat, before Paul Earley moved out to regain the midfield initiative for Ros. WJ tended to be a great impact player for ye against us in those later years, despite being plauged by injuries. He could still be relied on to field a few high ones and was always hugely inspirational to the fans and the rest of the team when introduced.

First of all I think the reason that McHale was tried at full-forward was because Micko Dwyer had been saying that was what he would do and build a team around him like he had with the Bomber in Kerry. Maybe he would have succeeded but up here he seems to just have been thrown in there and hope for the best.

As regards Newton and the 91 games I m not so sure about McHale getting the worst of it in the first game. I always thought he always at least broke even with Newton but its 18 years ago and I ve not seen it since.
It was a flawed tactic anyway. Ros were the strongest midfield around at the time and McHale was needed there to compete - especially against the wind. I remember he was redundant with no ball going in. If we d won the toss it might have been worth a look maybe.

Willie Joe was brought on for Colm Mac. By then Ros had a good hold on the game and our scoring rate was bad. WJP had a long career but by the late nineties he hardly ever started a game before July. In the Connacht final of 88 I remember himself and Jimmy Bourke ' warming-up' well into the second half in the Hyde. That was July and both still had some winter conditioning on them.

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 04:42:57 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 30, 2009, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 10:27:15 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

Or were allowed to.

I'm glad you said that, moysider not me. At least I'm not the only one who thinks their talents were wasted. Staunton maybe the exception because he was given a chance, but if we had Butler in CHB in 96, I do think of what could've been...

Instead of that year's All Star CHB Jimmy Nallen?

I played against Butler and he was a fine player but remember we had two all stars that year in our half back line and the 3rd was Noel Kennelly who wasn't half bad either.

I ve probably mentioned it here before but for me the best half-back line I ve seen for Mayo was the one v Roscommon in 1995. Tony Corcoran, Nallen and Butler had 1-2 scored before half time and injury saw Butler replaced.
Maughan just did nt seem to fancy the cut of Butler's jib to be honest. Farmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade. Gary Ruane also suffered from this snobbery from  96- 2002 when he was one the best players in the county and in his prime. But there is no doubt in my mind Butler  was a better bet than 2 of the 3 half-backs in 96 and if he was picked in 97 he would nt have been hanging around admiring Maurice Fitz either.

Apparently Willie Joe's catch in 1985 nearly turned the cold war into a hot war. He jumped so high, much higher the the high catch recording equipment at Croker could measure, that he appeared on NATO's radar. The return only lasted a few seconds but the diligent radar operator was certain it looked like a missile with the tell-tale blond streak behind it.

President Reagan was informed and the US was immediately put on DefCon 5, the highest level of alert. However when they analysed the radar image closer the writing they thought was 'CCCP' was in fact 'O'Neill's'.

When the match ended peace returned to the world and all was well except for Wille Joe's hands which had got frostbite as a result of the episode.



P.S. If this makes no sense see the Armagh top 3 players's thread.

Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2009, 09:07:52 PM

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 04:42:57 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 30, 2009, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 10:27:15 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

Or were allowed to.

I'm glad you said that, moysider not me. At least I'm not the only one who thinks their talents were wasted. Staunton maybe the exception because he was given a chance, but if we had Butler in CHB in 96, I do think of what could've been...

Instead of that year's All Star CHB Jimmy Nallen?

I played against Butler and he was a fine player but remember we had two all stars that year in our half back line and the 3rd was Noel Kennelly who wasn't half bad either.

I ve probably mentioned it here before but for me the best half-back line I ve seen for Mayo was the one v Roscommon in 1995. Tony Corcoran, Nallen and Butler had 1-2 scored before half time and injury saw Butler replaced.
Maughan just did nt seem to fancy the cut of Butler's jib to be honest. Farmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade. Gary Ruane also suffered from this snobbery from  96- 2002 when he was one the best players in the county and in his prime. But there is no doubt in my mind Butler  was a better bet than 2 of the 3 half-backs in 96 and if he was picked in 97 he would nt have been hanging around admiring Maurice Fitz either.

He didn't like other Knockmore players either. I've mentioned this previously. However it's true to say Butler wouldn't have stood off M Fitzgerald like Holmes did that day... It'd make you mad if you thought about it too much!

Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2009, 09:07:52 PM

Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2009, 04:42:57 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 30, 2009, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2009, 10:27:15 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Also, it's a pity Kevin Staunton, Peter Butler and the other Knockmore greats never carried their form from club to county.

Or were allowed to.

I'm glad you said that, moysider not me. At least I'm not the only one who thinks their talents were wasted. Staunton maybe the exception because he was given a chance, but if we had Butler in CHB in 96, I do think of what could've been...

Instead of that year's All Star CHB Jimmy Nallen?

I played against Butler and he was a fine player but remember we had two all stars that year in our half back line and the 3rd was Noel Kennelly who wasn't half bad either.

I ve probably mentioned it here before but for me the best half-back line I ve seen for Mayo was the one v Roscommon in 1995. Tony Corcoran, Nallen and Butler had 1-2 scored before half time and injury saw Butler replaced.
Maughan just did nt seem to fancy the cut of Butler's jib to be honest. Farmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade. Gary Ruane also suffered from this snobbery from  96- 2002 when he was one the best players in the county and in his prime. But there is no doubt in my mind Butler  was a better bet than 2 of the 3 half-backs in 96 and if he was picked in 97 he would nt have been hanging around admiring Maurice Fitz either.

That's a bit of a wild accusation Moysider. Can you elaborate?

Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3.
4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7.
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth!
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Brian Heffernan would have been a straight sawp for Flanagan who got injured straight away in the 97 AI final, instead whole team was re shuffled, hence Brian Heffernan could be classed as a player that was under used.Case to be made for Ginger and McAndrew from Cross too.

Quote from: mayo 4 eva on October 31, 2009, 01:05:50 PM
Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3. Brian Heffernan4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7. Pat McAndrew
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth! Ginger
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Quote from: ballinaman on October 31, 2009, 01:20:47 PM
Brian Heffernan would have been a straight sawp for Flanagan who got injured straight away in the 97 AI final, instead whole team was re shuffled, hence Brian Heffernan could be classed as a player that was under used.Case to be made for Ginger and McAndrew from Cross too.

Quote from: mayo 4 eva on October 31, 2009, 01:05:50 PM
Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3.
4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7.
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth!
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Would be interesting to see peoples reasons as well .... take Gary Ruane - he captained Mayo in an All-Ireland football final so why is he on the list below ? Billie Fitz for example just wasn't good enough for all his efforts to re-write and re-talk history imho. Kevin Staunton was given plenty of chances. Personally i wouldn't be one for thinking about such lists though cos if you look into it there is always a valid reason

Offbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

QuoteFarmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade.

Well Eugene Lavin and Peter Burke as carpenters must have used a hammer so instead of a spade !!

Why go looking for perceived victims of something or other?

We seem to prefer martyrs to winners.

Whilst I agree with Muppet's comment about preferring martyrs to winners, Brian Heffernan was one of the best defenders I've ever seen. Was always able to hold Ciaran Mac pretty well

Theres always a reason Stephenite. I could only speculate re why Heffernan wasn't brought on but even Maughan (+ Forde and O'Malley) wouldn't have been stupid enough to change every line on the pitch unless there was good reason.
But extending from what Muppet says - he can live out his days knowing that when football talk comes up in Ballina and the mid 90's are the topic of discussion it'll be along the lines of "jaysus, Brian Heffernan was fierce hard done by, he was a great bit of stuff that always held McDonald but that bolloux Maughan wouldn't play him cos with him being from Crossmolina it would have looked fierce bad to have 3 Ballina men on the team and only 1 from Cross" and 1001 variations of that conversation....
Martyrs, persecution complexes, paranoia, chip on the shoulder stuff ... serves no purpose

Ah I know all that Blast, Heffo can be lumped into the same category as O'Neill, Staunton, Butler and all the rest of them. I doubt if anyone in Ballina would ever take the line that it was because maughan hailed from Crossmolina.

I had the opportunity to ask John maughan about it - his answer was that it was his opinion that Brian heffernan wasn't good enough. Can't really argue with that now, can you?

Quote from: blast05 on October 31, 2009, 09:34:30 PM

Quote from: mayo 4 eva on October 31, 2009, 01:05:50 PM
Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3.
4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7.
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth!
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Would be interesting to see peoples reasons as well .... take Gary Ruane - he captained Mayo in an All-Ireland football final so why is he on the list below ? Billie Fitz for example just wasn't good enough for all his efforts to re-write and re-talk history imho. Kevin Staunton was given plenty of chances. Personally i wouldn't be one for thinking about such lists though cos if you look into it there is always a valid reason

Offbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

QuoteFarmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade.

Well Eugene Lavin and Peter Burke as carpenters must have used a hammer so instead of a spade !!

David Brady's three points against Tyrone in 2004?

Quote from: stephenite on November 01, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
Ah I know all that Blast, Heffo can be lumped into the same category as O'Neill, Staunton, Butler and all the rest of them. I doubt if anyone in Ballina would ever take the line that it was because maughan hailed from Crossmolina.

I had the opportunity to ask John maughan about it - his answer was that it was his opinion that Brian heffernan wasn't good enough. Can't really argue with that now, can you?

I remember talking to a Mayo selector midweek in the run up to that final. Connelly s dad was gravely ill and it looked like Noel might miss the game. I suggested Heff could come straight in and judging by the eye rolling and gurning that I got I realised that the lad was not in the picture - under any circumstances.
Maughan has also gone on record as saying that he did nt think Kevin O Neill was good enough at the time either. Cant argue with that. His call. His to get wrong.

John did an awful lot of good in his time with Mayo and would have done it all if he had nt a few blind spots. He put his thrust in a few old comrades like Flanagan, Reilly, Holmes and Finnerty. In fairness they served him well to an extent but lacked the quality/fitness that others he had at his disposal may well have had at the time. In a couple of cases he seemed to prefer lads who were vocal in the dressing room to lads who were quiet and maybe a bit withdrawn. Butler, Ruane and Heffernan led by example on the pitch but were hardly army officer material in the briefing room. They may not have been 'stiff -upper-lip chaps' but they thrived in the trenches. Depends what your into really.

Quote from: muppet on October 31, 2009, 09:37:36 PM
Why go looking for perceived victims of something or other?

We seem to prefer martyrs to winners.

Maybe because we dont have any winners Muppet in the last 50+ years. And some of us know it should nt have turned out this way.
Nobody else has mentioned victim or martyr. For years Mayo football has been about licking wounds and not daring to look back. Only winners write memoirs and we ll never really know what has been going through the minds of Mayo managers these last 25 years and why they made some of the decisions they did.  Personally I think it could have been all a lot better without an awful lot of rocket science needed. Likes of Ger Geraghty, McDonald, O Neill, Tiernan, Ray Connelly, Staunton, Butler, Aiden Higgins,  Brogan, Michael Collins, Willie Nally, Gary Ruane and Brian Heffernan did not wear the jersey as often as they should have.
Sure there were others who had it but could take it or leave it but the above and a few more were genuine players and just a bit of cop dealing with them have gone a long way.

Lads, a manager saying "not good enough" can act as a coverall statement for all manner of reasons...........

Moysider, re your list, i could counter with:
Ger Geraghty - emigrated to the States if i am not mistaken
McDonald - not available in 1996 for example as he went to the States for the summer ... and was no talking to him.
O Neill - was not conisdered in 1996  cos "was not good enough" ( i have my opinions on that), but for example was a shoe in for a final place in 97 until he broke his leg. There was no conspiracy theory re him not playing regularly imho .... more like he was regularly injured and his work committments
Tiernan - he got loads of chance but was never going to be effective enough (cos of his lack of size) in the engine against a top side.
Ray Connelly - to say he was injury prone would be an understatement
Staunton - got loads of chances. Never had the real real agression needed to match his size
Butler - injuries again
Aiden Higgins - i would say there are more people arguing that he got too many chance than too few and then when he was against a top opponent he was exposed. Think v Cork in 99
Brogan - had his own demons as we know that prevented him from fulfilling potential
Michael Collins - i'm actually struggling to counter you on this one. I think it was simply a case of it being '89 before he had learned how to become an effective inter county footballer.
Willie Nally - i'll have to pass. Can't remember
Gary Ruane - captained his county in an All-Ireland final. I wouldn't think he has too many regrets. The arguments is that he should probably have featured in 96 or 97 but ahead of Mortimer or Flanagan ? Not for me
Brian Heffernan - "not good enough" as Stephenite was told

Quote from: blast05 on November 02, 2009, 01:15:57 AM
Lads, a manager saying "not good enough" can act as a coverall statement for all manner of reasons...........

Exactly - as Moysider says though, it was his call to make. I wouldn't expect JM to answer the question any other way. Especially when talking to a drunk in the foyer of the Burlington at 4:30am on a Tuesday night ;)

One thing was obvious about John Maughan throughout his ic managerial career and that was that he set and demanded high standards in many ways. That most likely was down to his army background but if I had to think of a by-line for his biography it would be, “My Way or the Highway.”
His personal integrity was never an issue for me but his judgement and communication skills certainly were/are. Like John O’Mahony, he knew the Mayo job was never likely to be an easy one and controversy was going to dog his every step.
I honestly think his apparent inability to compromise in any way caused most of the problems that inevitably arose whenever and wherever he took up the manager’s job.
He never quite got the credit for his achievements along the way for his difficulties with players and officials along the line saw to that. I’d rate a Munster title for Clare and a few All Ireland finals for Mayo as outstanding   proofs of his ability to produce results, often very much against the odds.
Still, he had stints with Clare, Fermanagh and Roscommon as well as a couple with Mayo and the one common denominator all through was that he left under strained circumstances. The Fermanagh players revolted and the Rossie fans ran him out of town. With Clare it could be charitably said that his departure was accepted by all sides with considerable relief. I’d suggest the same applied to his terms with Mayo. The side he took to the final in ’96 had been going nowhere but his ability to organise a total rabble into the best team in the land in a remarkably short space of time is utterly overlooked. Still, when he decided to step down after that spell in charge, after saying that he felt he was unable to progress any further, not a single player or official openly asked him to stay. I don’t think us fans protested much either!
I don’t think for a minute that he felt that he treated any player from Knockmore badly because of the club they came from or because there was an obvious row between himself and the Knockmore manager of the time.

But he could have handled the problems with the Knockmore lads a whole lot better. I’m thinking of Kevin O’Neill’s case in particular.  Maybe Kevin did not perform to his standards when he was playing with the panel. Then again, players are at least as highly-strung as their managers and it might be hard to play to your potential if you have been rollicked by your manger for failing to give him your total loyalty and commitment.
I can only surmise but I will never change my opinion that Kevin O’Neill would be rated higher in any other manager’s estimation than Tom Reilly. Reilly was an honest player and probably gave Maughan the commitment he valued more than anything else. But he was no Kevin O’Neill.
Maughan never seemed to learn as he went along. He set his standards and expected every one to meet them at all times and in all circumstances. Anything else was unacceptable. When he walked into the Roscommon job and straight away dropped Frankie Dolan and Shane Curran he was setting himself up for an inevitable pasting. Rossie fans have to be admired for their commitment and loyalty to their cause.
They had their backs up from the word go and without doubt so had the players. Any one who marches into a neighbouring county and fires the two best-loved characters on the panel before he even takes begins serious training really can expect nothing but hostility. Given the rivalry between Mayo and Roscommon, that was about the daftest thing he could think of. When he couldn’t rapidly bring about dramatic improvements, he was a dead man walking.
Maybe the Rossie fans showed uncharacteristic restraint when they ‘invited’ him to eff off!

Quote from: AbbeySider on October 29, 2009, 02:43:39 PM
I would be looking at All-Stars to find the greatest...
...
Reflecting in that list, you have to respect each player for being one of the best of their era...
...
Top 5... no particular order...
...
Willie Joe Padden
James Nallen
Kenneth Mortimer
James Horan
Ciaran McDonald
...
After that, to narrow it down, you would be looking at the most influencial, and who performed on the big days...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyway

Getting back to the topic (apologies Lar)....

Ive had some time to think about my selections and they are probably unfairly based on more modern players. I mentioned some of the older players, but looking at it they cant really be left off the last just because I wasnt around to see them.

It cant be denied that Sean Flanagan made the team of the millennium, captained Mayo to double All Ireland success in 1950-51 and was ranked number 47 on the GAAs 125 most influential list so he is now my number one.

My second has to be Tommy Langan. One of the greatest full-forwards of all time he was named on the Football Team of the Century in 1984 and on the Football Team of the Millennium.

They say great players would have been great in any generation, given the same training techniques and fitness expertise so these guys are on my list.

After that I cant choose one from
Willie Joe Padden / James Nallen / Kenneth Mortimer / James Horan / Ciaran McDonald

all of which were have merit.


So
The Greatest....

1. Sean Flanagan
2. Tommy Langan
3. Willie Joe Padden / James Nallen / Kenneth Mortimer / James Horan / Ciaran McDonald

Guys, my knowledge of Mayo football is fairly limited. I used to play a bit of football in the states about 10 years ago and there was a guy playing over there with myself called Ronan Golding. All of the Mayo guys out there would have told me that he was possibly the best footballer to ever come from the county, but quit playing too early for whatever reason. -Something similar to John Corvan and Armagh. I was wondering how the Mayo posters here rated him as a player?

Quote from: gaa.boy on November 03, 2009, 04:18:36 PM
Guys, my knowledge of Mayo football is fairly limited. I used to play a bit of football in the states about 10 years ago and there was a guy playing over there with myself called Ronan Golding. All of the Mayo guys out there would have told me that he was possibly the best footballer to ever come from the county, but quit playing too early for whatever reason. -Something similar to John Corvan and Armagh. I was wondering how the Mayo posters here rated him as a player?

ah ronan goulding or zuby as he was also known captained the mayo under 21 in 1994 or 1995 . he was a handy enough player but imo definately not one of the best to come from the county. He used to play with Balla, a decent skin ran a pub in balla for a while before emigrating   

Quote from: the Deel Rover on November 03, 2009, 04:42:23 PM

Quote from: gaa.boy on November 03, 2009, 04:18:36 PM
Guys, my knowledge of Mayo football is fairly limited. I used to play a bit of football in the states about 10 years ago and there was a guy playing over there with myself called Ronan Golding. All of the Mayo guys out there would have told me that he was possibly the best footballer to ever come from the county, but quit playing too early for whatever reason. -Something similar to John Corvan and Armagh. I was wondering how the Mayo posters here rated him as a player?

ah ronan goulding or zuby as he was also known captained the mayo under 21 in 1994 or 1995 . he was a handy enough player but imo definately not one of the best to come from the county. He used to play with Balla, a decent skin ran a pub in balla for a while before emigrating   

Zuby ???? Known as the Goose to all and sundry, captained the Mayo minors to an All-Ireland minor final in 1991 scoring one of the best goals seen there for manys a year in the process. To call him handy enough is doing the man a huge disservice, had nearly everything as a footballer, speed, strength and accuracy. Had the ability to win a match in a 5 minute spell.

He worked in the Shebeen pub in Balla alright, didn't run it though. Just a few pointys of order there Deel !!  ;)

Quote from: fearsiuil on November 03, 2009, 06:32:09 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on November 03, 2009, 04:42:23 PM

Quote from: gaa.boy on November 03, 2009, 04:18:36 PM
Guys, my knowledge of Mayo football is fairly limited. I used to play a bit of football in the states about 10 years ago and there was a guy playing over there with myself called Ronan Golding. All of the Mayo guys out there would have told me that he was possibly the best footballer to ever come from the county, but quit playing too early for whatever reason. -Something similar to John Corvan and Armagh. I was wondering how the Mayo posters here rated him as a player?

ah ronan goulding or zuby as he was also known captained the mayo under 21 in 1994 or 1995 . he was a handy enough player but imo definately not one of the best to come from the county. He used to play with Balla, a decent skin ran a pub in balla for a while before emigrating   

Zuby ???? Known as the Goose to all and sundry, captained the Mayo minors to an All-Ireland minor final in 1991 scoring one of the best goals seen there for manys a year in the process. To call him handy enough is doing the man a huge disservice, had nearly everything as a footballer, speed, strength and accuracy. Had the ability to win a match in a 5 minute spell.

He worked in the Shebeen pub in Balla alright, didn't run it though. Just a few pointys of order there Deel !!  ;)

:D :D ya pulled me up on everthing the fear , he must have been telling us a few white lies when he told us he was runninh the pub then ;) also most of the lads from cross if you mentioned zuby (spl) would know you were talking about ronan and as i said a sound fella maybe i am doing him a dissevrvice but i don't think imo he was one of the best the best footballers ever to come out of the county . what age did he leave for america at ?   

Quote from: the Deel Rover on November 03, 2009, 07:14:06 PM


:D :D ya pulled me up on everthing the fear , he must have been telling us a few white lies when he told us he was runninh the pub then ;) also most of the lads from cross if you mentioned zuby (spl) would know you were talking about ronan and as i said a sound fella maybe i am doing him a dissevrvice but i don't think imo he was one of the best the best footballers ever to come out of the county . what age did he leave for america at ?   

History dictates that he's not one of the greats but is another example of a lad with savage talent not fulfilling on his undoubted ability, for whatever reason that may be ! He gets an honourable mention in The House of Pain, Maughan did everything possible to keep him in the county setup when his interest was waning. He would of been mid 20s when he went stateside.
That 1991 minor team had some cracking players on it, Ronan, Kevin O'Neill, David Burke, Kenneth Mortimer, your clubmate Heffernan in goals etc. Took a very good Cork team to beat them. If anybody can get a link of Golding's All Ireland minor final goal it would be great. He came on in the 1993 semifinal drubbling vs Cork when the game was lost, not the place for him.

Ronan was outrageously gifted. Martin Carney is referred to in the House of Pain as having said he was the best minor he ever saw. That's praise not easily won, believe me. But Ronan liked the good life. That was his choice. A pity from a Mayo point of view but its a free country.

EDIT: His brother Gareth was arguably an even better soccer player. Was with Arsenal Youths but injury wrecked him. Played unbelievable football then as a striker for Manulla in the Mayo Junior Soccer League for a few years before the injuries ended that as well. He taught me French. Lets just say I know more about his soccer career then I do words in French!

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 03, 2009, 08:55:02 PM
Was with Arsenal Youths but injury wrecked him.

He'd get a right laugh out of that  :D Arsenal youths me arse ! As for injury finishing his career  :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: fearsiuil on November 03, 2009, 09:17:38 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 03, 2009, 08:55:02 PM
Was with Arsenal Youths but injury wrecked him.

He'd get a right laugh out of that  :D Arsenal youths me arse ! As for injury finishing his career  :D :D :D :D :D :D

I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong but I'd nearly swear to it! Maybe it was just a trial?? A great man for porter so that played a part but he finished up in his mid 20s. I think his knee gave in.

Ronan Golding ticked all the technical boxes anyway. He was a thoroughbred of a player. I d say all he lacked was dedication. He seemed like one of those lads where the game came very easy to them but he could take it or leave it. I think I remember him playing in 94 Connacht final as well. Possibly as a sub. Did nt he hit the post at least once that day?

Quote from: moysider on November 03, 2009, 10:43:00 PM
Ronan Golding ticked all the technical boxes anyway. He was a thoroughbred of a player. I d say all he lacked was dedication. He seemed like one of those lads where the game came very easy to them but he could take it or leave it. I think I remember him playing in 94 Connacht final as well. Possibly as a sub. Did nt he hit the post at least once that day?

Scored three points from play in the semi-final win over Sligo from left-half forward. Dropped for the final in favour of Tony Morley (I know, I know) but Morley was taken off for Casey and then Goulding came on from John Conmy and kicked two points from play. Not bad on a day when we could only score 2-4 in total against Laythrium.

And I'll have to credit Willie Joe's blog for these stats! My memory isn't that photographic!

I'm surprised no one mentioned Dermot Early on this thread.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 03, 2009, 10:54:16 PM

Quote from: moysider on November 03, 2009, 10:43:00 PM
Ronan Golding ticked all the technical boxes anyway. He was a thoroughbred of a player. I d say all he lacked was dedication. He seemed like one of those lads where the game came very easy to them but he could take it or leave it. I think I remember him playing in 94 Connacht final as well. Possibly as a sub. Did nt he hit the post at least once that day?

Scored three points from play in the semi-final win over Sligo from left-half forward. Dropped for the final in favour of Tony Morley (I know, I know) but Morley was taken off for Casey and then Goulding came on from John Conmy and kicked two points from play. Not bad on a day when we could only score 2-4 in total against Laythrium.

And I'll have to credit Willie Joe's blog for these stats! My memory isn't that photographic!

Think MacDanger came on that day as well. I dont begrudge Leitrim but we really do give teams a leg up - Donegal in 92 another example. In 94 we had more than enough possession and chances to win but it seemed we needed to lose more badly than we cared to win. Some fine players on that team but there seemed to be some self-destruct dynamic built into them. I remember Liam McHale saying years later when he told a player that they needed to dig deep and up it, yer man turned around and said 'what s the point?'
Says a lot about 'yer man' and why he never fulfilled the great potential that he had. He s been mentioned a few times on this thread. 

Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2009, 10:57:37 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned Dermot Early on this thread.

Why? He may have been born in Mayo - was it Lahardaun/ Bofeenaun/ Islandeady country? He played all his stuff in Ros. If you start claiming him Muppet the Rossies will start some row and ruin this thread.

Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2009, 12:31:32 AM

Quote from: stephenite on November 01, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
Ah I know all that Blast, Heffo can be lumped into the same category as O'Neill, Staunton, Butler and all the rest of them. I doubt if anyone in Ballina would ever take the line that it was because maughan hailed from Crossmolina.

I had the opportunity to ask John maughan about it - his answer was that it was his opinion that Brian heffernan wasn't good enough. Can't really argue with that now, can you?

I remember talking to a Mayo selector midweek in the run up to that final. Connelly s dad was gravely ill and it looked like Noel might miss the game. I suggested Heff could come straight in and judging by the eye rolling and gurning that I got I realised that the lad was not in the picture - under any circumstances.
Maughan has also gone on record as saying that he did nt think Kevin O Neill was good enough at the time either. Cant argue with that. His call. His to get wrong.

John did an awful lot of good in his time with Mayo and would have done it all if he had nt a few blind spots. He put his thrust in a few old comrades like Flanagan, Reilly, Holmes and Finnerty. In fairness they served him well to an extent but lacked the quality/fitness that others he had at his disposal may well have had at the time. In a couple of cases he seemed to prefer lads who were vocal in the dressing room to lads who were quiet and maybe a bit withdrawn. Butler, Ruane and Heffernan led by example on the pitch but were hardly army officer material in the briefing room. They may not have been 'stiff -upper-lip chaps' but they thrived in the trenches. Depends what your into really.

I can’t disagree with any of that. That is how Maughan and his man management skills come across to me. His record with three other counties seems to back you up here. I mean all the controversies that dogged his team selections can’t be put down to local issues in Mayo or to Knockmore players being extra thick or anything else of a petty nature.
I have no doubt whatsoever that he is an honourable man and like John O’Mahony his motivation and character is/was never in doubt. Both have a tendency to make wrong judgement calls. Wrong anyway to an objective observer.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 03, 2009, 10:41:36 PM

Quote from: fearsiuil on November 03, 2009, 09:17:38 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 03, 2009, 08:55:02 PM
Was with Arsenal Youths but injury wrecked him.

He'd get a right laugh out of that  :D Arsenal youths me arse ! As for injury finishing his career  :D :D :D :D :D :D

I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong but I'd nearly swear to it! Maybe it was just a trial?? A great man for porter so that played a part but he finished up in his mid 20s. I think his knee gave in.

Mayo youths got to the national final the year he was banging in the goals, I recall him saying that there was an Arsenal scout at that final. That's as far as it went. He was an out and out goal scorer.
He got a knee injury playing for Manulla alright that kept him out for months. Porter ? The man just sips bottles of pop now.

Quote from: moysider on November 03, 2009, 11:14:17 PM

Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2009, 10:57:37 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned Dermot Early on this thread.

Why? He may have been born in Mayo - was it Lahardaun/ Bofeenaun/ Islandeady country? He played all his stuff in Ros. If you start claiming him Muppet the Rossies will start some row and ruin this thread.

During his younger years he lived for a short while outside Balla.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 03, 2009, 11:17:19 PM

Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2009, 12:31:32 AM

Quote from: stephenite on November 01, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
Ah I know all that Blast, Heffo can be lumped into the same category as O'Neill, Staunton, Butler and all the rest of them. I doubt if anyone in Ballina would ever take the line that it was because maughan hailed from Crossmolina.

I had the opportunity to ask John maughan about it - his answer was that it was his opinion that Brian heffernan wasn't good enough. Can't really argue with that now, can you?

I remember talking to a Mayo selector midweek in the run up to that final. Connelly s dad was gravely ill and it looked like Noel might miss the game. I suggested Heff could come straight in and judging by the eye rolling and gurning that I got I realised that the lad was not in the picture - under any circumstances.
Maughan has also gone on record as saying that he did nt think Kevin O Neill was good enough at the time either. Cant argue with that. His call. His to get wrong.

John did an awful lot of good in his time with Mayo and would have done it all if he had nt a few blind spots. He put his thrust in a few old comrades like Flanagan, Reilly, Holmes and Finnerty. In fairness they served him well to an extent but lacked the quality/fitness that others he had at his disposal may well have had at the time. In a couple of cases he seemed to prefer lads who were vocal in the dressing room to lads who were quiet and maybe a bit withdrawn. Butler, Ruane and Heffernan led by example on the pitch but were hardly army officer material in the briefing room. They may not have been 'stiff -upper-lip chaps' but they thrived in the trenches. Depends what your into really.

I can't disagree with any of that. That is how Maughan and his man management skills come across to me. His record with three other counties seems to back you up here. I mean all the controversies that dogged his team selections can't be put down to local issues in Mayo or to Knockmore players being extra thick or anything else of a petty nature.
I have no doubt whatsoever that he is an honourable man and like John O'Mahony his motivation and character is/was never in doubt. Both have a tendency to make wrong judgement calls. Wrong anyway to an objective observer.

Yes.  But I m sure they believed they were doing the right thing. Why would you do what Johnno did and piss off 50/60/70+ % of the football people of Mayo on 1 decision? Cant remember a worse call ever but I have to let it go - but I wont.  Then this year he left Aidan Higgins behind. Unbelievable. Higgins played the county final like he was sitting in an armchair.
I ve been critical of both men while having more sympathy for Maughan s foibles as I saw them. Johnno at least inherited a position that others before him had got to the upper rungs.
But how can we be objective when we don t know what is happening from day to day in training? I mean anybody who has ever managed a team at any level will tell you that their perspective on the team selection/ shape/tactics/ whatever, is light years away from that of the mother/dad/girlfriend/ sub you just cannot play? People that only attend the big games-if any- but have all the answers. I saw that again after a couple of county finals last couple of weeks. I mean it s as far removed from the reality as you see it to be verging on the ridiculous. I m sure Maughan and O Mahoney often feel like that.
The other thing of course is who selects managers? You give me a name and I ll tell you what he brings to the table. The Mayo Board are ultimately responsible for the performance of the county teams. They knew the methods, and indeed baggage of their appointees - or should. But I would speculate they re just expedient and there is an awful lot of moving and shaping going on.  I believe [wrote it at the time] it was obvious we would go backwards with Johnno - we are now only a year or two away from mark level 93/ 94. On the other hand Dempsey brought a realism and a serious work ethic to the minors. I think I talked him up. If I know what we re getting, why does nt the board? Or are they playing a bigger game? Or are they just incompetent and we have to wait until they get lucky? They nearly got lucky with Mickey Moran but had his successor lined up 6 months after he was appointed. Go figure.

Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2009, 12:33:31 AM

Quote from: muppet on October 31, 2009, 09:37:36 PM
Why go looking for perceived victims of something or other?

We seem to prefer martyrs to winners.

Maybe because we dont have any winners Muppet in the last 50+ years. And some of us know it should nt have turned out this way.
Nobody else has mentioned victim or martyr. For years Mayo football has been about licking wounds and not daring to look back. Only winners write memoirs and we ll never really know what has been going through the minds of Mayo managers these last 25 years and why they made some of the decisions they did.  Personally I think it could have been all a lot better without an awful lot of rocket science needed. Likes of Ger Geraghty, McDonald, O Neill, Tiernan, Ray Connelly, Staunton, Butler, Aiden Higgins,  Brogan, Michael Collins, Willie Nally, Gary Ruane and Brian Heffernan did not wear the jersey as often as they should have.
Sure there were others who had it but could take it or leave it but the above and a few more were genuine players and just a bit of cop dealing with them have gone a long way.

great to see willie Nally get a mention. his performance in the 1981 connacht final was the best individual performance ive seen from any one in a Mayo jersey. he left every one in awe  that day.
Not sure it gets him into a top3 list but its a memory to treasure

Quote from: rosnarun on November 04, 2009, 12:53:02 AM

Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2009, 12:33:31 AM

Quote from: muppet on October 31, 2009, 09:37:36 PM
Why go looking for perceived victims of something or other?

We seem to prefer martyrs to winners.

Maybe because we dont have any winners Muppet in the last 50+ years. And some of us know it should nt have turned out this way.
Nobody else has mentioned victim or martyr. For years Mayo football has been about licking wounds and not daring to look back. Only winners write memoirs and we ll never really know what has been going through the minds of Mayo managers these last 25 years and why they made some of the decisions they did.  Personally I think it could have been all a lot better without an awful lot of rocket science needed. Likes of Ger Geraghty, McDonald, O Neill, Tiernan, Ray Connelly, Staunton, Butler, Aiden Higgins,  Brogan, Michael Collins, Willie Nally, Gary Ruane and Brian Heffernan did not wear the jersey as often as they should have.
Sure there were others who had it but could take it or leave it but the above and a few more were genuine players and just a bit of cop dealing with them have gone a long way.

great to see willie Nally get a mention. his performance in the 1981 connacht final was the best individual performance ive seen from any one in a Mayo jersey. he left every one in awe  that day.
Not sure it gets him into a top3 list but its a memory to treasure

One of the best individual performances I ve seen. As you say that does nt get him a top 3 but it shows what he could have done.  Ever wonder why he hardly ever played after? He played Minor in 74 against Cork in an AI minor final and Micheál Ó Muirareachtaigh in his report  on radio earmarked him as outstanding. His fielding ability was beyond Willie Joe- he was about six three. He was no flash in the pan and another lost in this county.

Wow-willie nally-wonder if that game is online anywhere. That was unbelievable! 

In the flesh I'd say Brogan was the best player I ever saw playing. Gerry Geraghty always reminded me of a Dermot Earley SR type of player-I saw him playing for McBrides out in Chicago in the mid 90s and he was still class.

Mark Butler-what ever happened him? The oul fella gave him a lift (yeah people used to thumb lifts back in the 80s) and I think he regretted ever getting in the car with the grilling he got.

Peter Butler-great heart and strength, fantastic reader of the game-butslow as Christmas. I saw him playing a game out in Parke (probably the biggest pitch in Mayo) against a speed merchant and he got cleaned.

Ronan Golding-I thought they called him the goose.I think it was martin carney who stated he was the most talented minor he had aver seen play for Mayo. Had beers with him in Boston a few years ago-great craic altogether.

So heres my 3 (of the past 20years)

Willie Joe (for heart)

Macdonald (for brilliance)

Mchale (for athleticism)

Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2009, 01:32:50 AM
Wow-willie nally-wonder if that game is online anywhere. That was unbelievable! 

In the flesh I'd say Brogan was the best player I ever saw playing. Gerry Geraghty always reminded me of a Dermot Earley SR type of player-I saw him playing for McBrides out in Chicago in the mid 90s and he was still class.

Mark Butler-what ever happened him? The oul fella gave him a lift (yeah people used to thumb lifts back in the 80s) and I think he regretted ever getting in the car with the grilling he got.

Peter Butler-great heart and strength, fantastic reader of the game-butslow as Christmas. I saw him playing a game out in Parke (probably the biggest pitch in Mayo) against a speed merchant and he got cleaned.

Ronan Golding-I thought they called him the goose.I think it was martin carney who stated he was the most talented minor he had aver seen play for Mayo. Had beers with him in Boston a few years ago-great craic altogether.

So heres my 3 (of the past 20years)

Willie Joe (for heart)

Macdonald (for brilliance)

Mchale (for athleticism)

A Castlebar corner forward took him for 2-4 in a county U-21 semi-final in Parke in 1990.

I would have Peter Butler on my team any day.....a class act who developed a bit later than others but was the heart and soul of the Knockmore team of the ninetys.....what happened to the corner forward from Castlebar in his later career ;D ;D

My Top 3

1. The Bomber Brogan
2. Ciaran Mc Donald
3. Kevin O' Neill

If I had to pick one it would be Brogan, at his best he was toatally untouchable and had it all, strength, speed, scoring ability......a pity he never managed to keep on the level when he was younger. A nice guy as well, who when young, trained harder than anyone.

If its the corner forward I'm thinking of he developed a serious back injury and only played for a couple more seasons-is there more to the story?

Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2009, 01:32:50 AM
Wow-willie nally-wonder if that game is online anywhere. That was unbelievable! 

In the flesh I'd say Brogan was the best player I ever saw playing. Gerry Geraghty always reminded me of a Dermot Earley SR type of player-I saw him playing for McBrides out in Chicago in the mid 90s and he was still class.

Mark Butler-what ever happened him? The oul fella gave him a lift (yeah people used to thumb lifts back in the 80s) and I think he regretted ever getting in the car with the grilling he got.

Peter Butler-great heart and strength, fantastic reader of the game-butslow as Christmas. I saw him playing a game out in Parke (probably the biggest pitch in Mayo) against a speed merchant and he got cleaned.

Ronan Golding-I thought they called him the goose.I think it was martin carney who stated he was the most talented minor he had aver seen play for Mayo. Had beers with him in Boston a few years ago-great craic altogether.

So heres my 3 (of the past 20years)

Willie Joe (for heart)

Macdonald (for brilliance)

Mchale (for athleticism)

You’ve come up with a fine three alright and given good reasons for so doing. I see you are a relative newcomer to our chats and I think you will be a fine addition. Failte isteach!
It just isn’t possible to get broad agreement on any three players I know. There are far too many variables involved and the further back one goes, the greater the probabilities of memories playing tricks.
However, your three would all have to be close to the top for all whom have seen them at their best.
With Willie Nally, I’d go with rosnarun’s assessment.
I’d definitely agree with your other two.
I know I left McHale out when I made my initial choice but having considered what others have had to say, I think he is indeed worthy of inclusion. He had one quality along with Ciaran Mac that set them apart from all around them and most who played against them.
Both were extremely strong and athletic with perfect balance and timing.
How often did you see both of them come out with the ball from a huddle of players and somehow make space to look around for a colleague to deliver a perfectly weighted pass to? I never recall either giving just an aimless hoof to pass the buck on to someone else. Both also had enough confidence in their ball control to look around them when in possession and never appeared rushed or panicky.
Conor Mortimer won a deserved All Star in 2006 because he alone showed for McD’s inch perfect passes during the 2006 campaign. It must have been heartbreaking for the pair of Macs as they toe tapped and fostered, waiting for some ejjit colleague inside to wake up and run into position.
I’m reluctant to leave out John Morley from my revised top three but Willie Joe has to be given the nod, since he seldom if ever had colleagues of the calibre John Morley had around him. 

Hmmm I'll have to find out who saffron and blue is!

Quote from: saffronandblue on November 04, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
I would have Peter Butler on my team any day.....a class act who developed a bit later than others but was the heart and soul of the Knockmore team of the ninetys.....what happened to the corner forward from Castlebar in his later career ;D ;D

My Top 3

1. The Bomber Brogan
2. Ciaran Mc Donald
3. Kevin O' Neill

If I had to pick one it would be Brogan, at his best he was toatally untouchable and had it all, strength, speed, scoring ability......a pity he never managed to keep on the level when he was younger. A nice guy as well, who when young, trained harder than anyone.

Stopped playing completely at 20 on medical advice.

Quote from: muppet on November 04, 2009, 04:48:42 PM

Quote from: saffronandblue on November 04, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
I would have Peter Butler on my team any day.....a class act who developed a bit later than others but was the heart and soul of the Knockmore team of the ninetys.....what happened to the corner forward from Castlebar in his later career ;D ;D

My Top 3

1. The Bomber Brogan
2. Ciaran Mc Donald
3. Kevin O' Neill

If I had to pick one it would be Brogan, at his best he was toatally untouchable and had it all, strength, speed, scoring ability......a pity he never managed to keep on the level when he was younger. A nice guy as well, who when young, trained harder than anyone.

Stopped playing completely at 20 on medical advice.

Not you by any chance Muppet?!

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 04, 2009, 07:35:55 PM

Quote from: muppet on November 04, 2009, 04:48:42 PM

Quote from: saffronandblue on November 04, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
I would have Peter Butler on my team any day.....a class act who developed a bit later than others but was the heart and soul of the Knockmore team of the ninetys.....what happened to the corner forward from Castlebar in his later career ;D ;D

My Top 3

1. The Bomber Brogan
2. Ciaran Mc Donald
3. Kevin O' Neill

If I had to pick one it would be Brogan, at his best he was toatally untouchable and had it all, strength, speed, scoring ability......a pity he never managed to keep on the level when he was younger. A nice guy as well, who when young, trained harder than anyone.

Stopped playing completely at 20 on medical advice.

Not you by any chance Muppet?!

Sadly I never scored 2-4 even in training.

QuoteOffbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

Back to this question ...... Answer: Colm McMenamon no less - 7 pts from play

Name the year, place and opponents ?? ?? ??  Yes, it is either NFL or championship

Quote from: blast05 on November 04, 2009, 10:16:12 PM

QuoteOffbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

Back to this question ...... Answer: Colm McMenamon no less - 7 pts from play

Name the year, place and opponents ?? ?? ??  Yes, it is either NFL or championship

As it is extremely unlike that Colm Mc scored seven points in one game and six in another, I take it you are referring to the six he scored against Kilkenny in 1997? According to the bould Willie Joe he did so from centre-half forward (still incredible given his shooting problems). I reckon Brady's three points in 04 aren't far off. From championship at least.

Link here - last listing at bottom of page

http://mayogaablog.com/?page_id=490

I probaly am a bit older that some of the posters on here, but back in the day that dinosaurs roamed the plans of Mayo, i would have to say two of the best i ever saw was the late John Morley (RIP), Martin Carney was always a top level player, the late Ted Webb could have been one of the greatest, he had the talent no doubt, Ciaran Mc Donald as well, the winning point against Dublin a few years ago, and the last minute goal against ballagh in the county final to draw the game.

1. John Morley
2. Ciaran Mc Donald
3. Martin Carney
Going further back paddy prendergast, Sean Flanagan and my father always talks about the tussels between Padraig Carney and Sean Purcell from Galway. Remember when Galway won the 3 in a row in the 60's mayo were always with in a point of them. We were the number 2 team of that era, sums up Mayo football really.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 05, 2009, 12:52:26 AM

Quote from: blast05 on November 04, 2009, 10:16:12 PM

QuoteOffbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

Back to this question ...... Answer: Colm McMenamon no less - 7 pts from play

Name the year, place and opponents ?? ?? ??  Yes, it is either NFL or championship

As it is extremely unlike that Colm Mc scored seven points in one game and six in another, I take it you are referring to the six he scored against Kilkenny in 1997? According to the bould Willie Joe he did so from centre-half forward (still incredible given his shooting problems). I reckon Brady's three points in 04 aren't far off. From championship at least.

Link here - last listing at bottom of page

http://mayogaablog.com/?page_id=490

That team has an M. McNicholas Midfield with David Brady, surely that wasn't Marty wearing 9?

Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2009, 12:17:20 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 05, 2009, 12:52:26 AM

Quote from: blast05 on November 04, 2009, 10:16:12 PM

QuoteOffbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

Back to this question ...... Answer: Colm McMenamon no less - 7 pts from play

Name the year, place and opponents ?? ?? ??  Yes, it is either NFL or championship

As it is extremely unlike that Colm Mc scored seven points in one game and six in another, I take it you are referring to the six he scored against Kilkenny in 1997? According to the bould Willie Joe he did so from centre-half forward (still incredible given his shooting problems). I reckon Brady's three points in 04 aren't far off. From championship at least.

Link here - last listing at bottom of page

http://mayogaablog.com/?page_id=490

That team has an M. McNicholas Midfield with David Brady, surely that wasn't Marty wearing 9?

Saw that myself. Marty was 16 at the time and a sub on the Breaffy Junior team so definitely not him! Can't place any other M McNicholas though. There's a few by that name from Swinford/Kiltimagh way but I can't name one. Maybe someone here can fill in the gap . . .

QuoteColm McMenamon

Jaysus, I'd have believed one about Francie Bellew kicking points before yer man!!  :o

On topic - from what I've seen;

Padden
McDonald
Ken Mortimer

Was not trying to be in anyway smart about that Castlebar forward, total ignorance on my part, I had no idea the lad got injured and had to pack it in. Another potential superstar lost to Mayo football :(

Should have put Kevin Cahill on my list, we never replaced him at full back, which shows how valuable he was to Mayo.

Quote from: saffronandblue on November 05, 2009, 02:25:47 PM
Was not trying to be in anyway smart about that Castlebar forward, total ignorance on my part, I had no idea the lad got injured and had to pack it in. Another potential superstar lost to Mayo football :(

Should have put Kevin Cahill on my list, we never replaced him at full back, which shows how valuable he was to Mayo.

No problem I didn't read it that way.

Quote from: Billys Boots on November 05, 2009, 01:28:53 PM

QuoteColm McMenamon

Jaysus, I'd have believed one about Francie Bellew kicking points before yer man!!  :o

he was actually always good for a point or two a game . an unfairly maligned player. heart of a lion, a fighter to the end

Quote from: rosnarun on November 06, 2009, 01:09:06 AM

Quote from: Billys Boots on November 05, 2009, 01:28:53 PM

QuoteColm McMenamon

Jaysus, I'd have believed one about Francie Bellew kicking points before yer man!!  :o

he was actually always good for a point or two a game . an unfairly maligned player. heart of a lion, a fighter to the end

Yip. Spot on.

Willie Joe Padden
James Nallen
Ciarán McDonald

Quote from: saffronandblue on November 05, 2009, 02:25:47 PM
Was not trying to be in anyway smart about that Castlebar forward, total ignorance on my part, I had no idea the lad got injured and had to pack it in. Another potential superstar lost to Mayo football :(

Should have put Kevin Cahill on my list, we never replaced him at full back, which shows how valuable he was to Mayo.

We had a few good ones before Kevin too.
In my time, we had Vincent Nally, Ray Prendergast and Peter Ford. Funny how after a long spell of good no. 3s we have had to wait so long for some one to fill that particular position.

The full-backs on each of the last two minor teams have been very good - Kevin Keane and Keith Rogers. We'll have to see how they develop but we are getting a better type of defender coming through under Ray Dempsey.

Quote from: moysider on November 06, 2009, 01:38:23 AM

Quote from: rosnarun on November 06, 2009, 01:09:06 AM

Quote from: Billys Boots on November 05, 2009, 01:28:53 PM

QuoteColm McMenamon

Jaysus, I'd have believed one about Francie Bellew kicking points before yer man!!  :o

he was actually always good for a point or two a game . an unfairly maligned player. heart of a lion, a fighter to the end

Yip. Spot on.

I wasn't really having a go, he was indeed a mighty worker, but he did need more time than he was ever going to get at intercounty level to take his points (when he got the opportunity). 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlKDwD6OpHE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlKDwD6OpHE&feature=related)

In the above video Mac show how not to solo the ball Tomas O'Sé style (left hand to right foot) but then hits an accurate pass along the sideline which sets up a point. He was more accurate with the foot than people think.

Quote from: muppet on November 06, 2009, 02:50:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlKDwD6OpHE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlKDwD6OpHE&feature=related)

In the above video Mac show how not to solo the ball Tomas O'Sé style (left hand to right foot) but then hits an accurate pass along the sideline which sets up a point. He was more accurate with the foot than people think.

Thanks for the happy memories, muppet. Colm Mac was one of my all-time favourites. He could never be accused of failing to give it his best from start to finish.
Okay, he had more of the Liam McHale way of soloing than the ‘Jinking Joe’ Corcoran one but he had to have the ball before he could do anything with it and Colm sure won a lot of ball.
John Casey was in mighty form that day, wasn’t he?
I just couldn’t help thinking as I saw your video clip that it was an almighty pity that we didn’t have a John Casey with half of Colm Mac’s heart and energy and a Colm Mac with half of Casey’s ball skills and it would have been a case of, “Yeeehaw, Sam Maguire is coming home to Mayo!” ;D

Ah Colm Mac.  What a great player. Didn't he have a stint with some Ozzie outfit.

I remember seeing him shoulder some young fella at under age-almost sent him out of the Park. I think he got a lot of hois strength from the mullet he used to sport as a teenager

McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

He did indeed. But he had to pack it in because he couldn't work for two days afterwards. He played well every year til this year. He's about 39 now methinks. The type of strongman we don't have anymore. We've been discussing that type of player a lot lately.

Imagine having guys like Colm Mc, Gary Ruane, Noel Connelly, TJ Kilgallon now. Leaders, winners and men who won't back down in any situation.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 06, 2009, 10:25:15 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

He did indeed. But he had to pack it in because he couldn't work for two days afterwards. He played well every year til this year. He's about 39 now methinks. The type of strongman we don't have anymore. We've been discussing that type of player a lot lately.

Imagine having guys like Colm Mc, Gary Ruane, Noel Connelly, TJ Kilgallon now. Leaders, winners and men who won't back down in any situation.

Christ those men you've mentioned there RGS, how come we've stopped producing those type of players? Or is it just a hitch in the system.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

Anyone remember him decking a leitrim player in the connacht championship in 97 in castlebar i think, got a red card for it, wearing those brutal red above the green jerseys. Some blood spilt, think it was in the last minute.

Quote from: ballinaman on November 06, 2009, 10:36:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

Anyone remember him decking a leitrim player in the connacht championship in 97 in castlebar i think, got a red card for it, wearing those brutal red above the green jerseys. Some blood spilt, think it was in the last minute.

Yeah remember it alright. Wasn't that the same incident where Maughan was floored by Gerry Flanagan?

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 06, 2009, 10:39:39 PM

Quote from: ballinaman on November 06, 2009, 10:36:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

Anyone remember him decking a leitrim player in the connacht championship in 97 in castlebar i think, got a red card for it, wearing those brutal red above the green jerseys. Some blood spilt, think it was in the last minute.

Yeah remember it alright. Wasn't that the same incident where Maughan was floored by Gerry Flanagan?

I'm not too sure because would ya believe i was walking out the gate with the auld fella to beat the traffic home and missed it, remember seeing the red card incident on the sunday game. What happened with Maughan?

Quote from: ballinaman on November 06, 2009, 10:44:23 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 06, 2009, 10:39:39 PM

Quote from: ballinaman on November 06, 2009, 10:36:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
McMenamon was one who never shirked a challenge anyway. He was so determined. I remember when I was kicking ball with my dad in the garden at home and if I'd kick it out over the sideline it'd be a "Colm McMenamon shot", but he was as strong as an ox. Did he play a bit with Burrishoole this year in the league?

Anyone remember him decking a leitrim player in the connacht championship in 97 in castlebar i think, got a red card for it, wearing those brutal red above the green jerseys. Some blood spilt, think it was in the last minute.

Yeah remember it alright. Wasn't that the same incident where Maughan was floored by Gerry Flanagan?

I'm not too sure because would ya believe i was walking out the gate with the auld fella to beat the traffic home and missed it, remember seeing the red card incident on the sunday game. What happened with Maughan?

We'd played Holy mount in a challenge game out in Breaffy that morning, nearly sure I was leaving the ground with your Uncle that day Ballinaman

Great debate lads - will have to have a serious think about my top 3.

Colm Mc did floor Gerry Flanagan. It was a bad game for Mayo because Kevin Cahill did his cruciate and then late on Colm hit one hell of a haymaker (if you are going to do it do it right) but only got 4 weeks! Missed Connacht Final. He was important to us as Paul Galvin is to Kerry. His kicking did leave a lot to be desire but don't forget the banana kick point v Galway in the 99 Connacht Final - pure magic!!

Quote from: Barney on November 07, 2009, 01:30:44 PM
Great debate lads - will have to have a serious think about my top 3.

Colm Mc did floor Gerry Flanagan. It was a bad game for Mayo because Kevin Cahill did his cruciate and then late on Colm hit one hell of a haymaker (if you are going to do it do it right) but only got 4 weeks! Missed Connacht Final. He was important to us as Paul Galvin is to Kerry. His kicking did leave a lot to be desire but don't forget the banana kick point v Galway in the 99 Connacht Final - pure magic!!

Good to see you back, Barney.
Yeah, Colm Mac did flatten Gerry Flanagan alright but I feel he was retaliating for something or other. He had blood pouring down his face after the incident when 3 or 4 Leitrim players ganged up on him. He got a few clatters there and he gave a few back before the ref intervened. I was furious at the time when I saw none of the Leitrims getting the line also. It was only when watching the video afterwards I saw the incident with Flangan and I guess the ref was going to give Mac the gate anyway.
Like everything else he did, Colm didn't hold back when he belted Flanagan!

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 07, 2009, 07:03:47 PM

Quote from: Barney on November 07, 2009, 01:30:44 PM
Great debate lads - will have to have a serious think about my top 3.

Colm Mc did floor Gerry Flanagan. It was a bad game for Mayo because Kevin Cahill did his cruciate and then late on Colm hit one hell of a haymaker (if you are going to do it do it right) but only got 4 weeks! Missed Connacht Final. He was important to us as Paul Galvin is to Kerry. His kicking did leave a lot to be desire but don't forget the banana kick point v Galway in the 99 Connacht Final - pure magic!!

Good to see you back, Barney.
Yeah, Colm Mac did flatten Gerry Flanagan alright but I feel he was retaliating for something or other. He had blood pouring down his face after the incident when 3 or 4 Leitrim players ganged up on him. He got a few clatters there and he gave a few back before the ref intervened. I was furious at the time when I saw none of the Leitrims getting the line also. It was only when watching the video afterwards I saw the incident with Flangan and I guess the ref was going to give Mac the gate anyway.
Like everything else he did, Colm didn't hold back when he belted Flanagan!

Was that the game in McHale park when Maughan was on the pitch breaking things up and he got an awful clather?

You could see your man lining up the belt for about 10 seconds before he landed it.

A pity McMenamin didnt batter a few more of them. A cowardly belt dished out to Maughan at the end, wouldnt expect much more from them. I think they (Leitrim) were influenced by Meaths carry on that year.

Re that M McNicholas v Kilkenny ...... i'd say that was Ger McNicholas from Kiltimagh. He played a few league games in the mid to late 90's.
And its not the only mistakes on that blog .... cos Colm Mc definitely scored 7 pts .... even if the source of the info is being taken from some sort of county archive maintained by the county secretary or whatever.

I was leafing through John Scally s infuriating book called Giants of the West earlier. There s a gem of a photo on page 38. The Connacht Railway Cup team of 1952. Paddy Prendergast, Sean Flanagan, Eamonn Mongey, Padraic Carney and Tom langan are in it. So too is Gerry O Malley and Sean Purcell! What you would nt pay now to see those guys play together. No less than 3 on Team of the Millinium. Unfortunately the whole team is not named which is very slack. I m sure I recognise Peter Solan and Tom Acton but cant be sure. Can any of ye help out and do what the author did nt do and we ll name the rest? It has to be a great line up.

Is it the 51 or 52 team you want? The 51 team won 1-9 to 1-8 against Munster at Croke Park, the 52 team lost by a point to Leinster in Ballinasloe the following year.

The 51 team was:

Jack Mangan (Galway)
Bill McQuillan (Ros)
Paddy Prendergast (MayO)
Sean Flanagan (Mayo)
Eamon Boland (Ros)
Henry Dixon (Mayo)
Eamon Mongey (Mayo)
Sean Purcell (Galway)
Gerry O'Malley (Ros)
Eamon Keogh (Galway)
Padraig Carney (Mayo)
Joe Gilvarry (Mayo)
Mick Mulderrig (Mayo)
Tom Langan (Mayo)
Peter Solon (Mayo)

Subs: Peter McVann (Sligo), Jim Dooney (Sligo), Pat White (Sligo), Frank Kelly (Roscommon), Tim Lynch (Roscommon), Joe Bohan (Leitrim), Mick Flanagan (Mayo), John Forde (Mayo)

52 team was:


Sean Wynne - Mayo
Bill McQuillan - Ros
Paddy Predergast - Mayo
Sean Flanagan capt - Mayo
Joe Staunton - Mayo
John McAndrew - Mayo
Frank Kelly - Roscommon
Eamon Mongey - Mayo
Gerry O'Malley - Ros
Sean Purcell - Galway
Padraig Carney - Mayo
Tom McHugh - Galway
Joe Masterson - Sligo
Tom Langan - Mayo
Ned Keogh - Galway

Subs: John Forde (Mayo), Sean Mulderrig - (Mayo), Nace O'Dowd (Sligo), Frank White (Sligo), Eamon Boland (Ros)

Quote from: Turlough O Carolan on November 28, 2009, 12:53:02 PM
Is it the 51 or 52 team you want? The 51 team won 1-9 to 1-8 against Munster at Croke Park, the 52 team lost by a point to Leinster in Ballinasloe the following year.

The 51 team was:

Jack Mangan (Galway)
Bill McQuillan (Ros)
Paddy Prendergast (MayO)
Sean Flanagan (Mayo)
Eamon Boland (Ros)
Henry Dixon (Mayo)
Eamon Mongey (Mayo)
Sean Purcell (Galway)
Gerry O'Malley (Ros)
Eamon Keogh (Galway)
Padraig Carney (Mayo)
Joe Gilvarry (Mayo)
Mick Mulderrig (Mayo)
Tom Langan (Mayo)
Peter Solon (Mayo)

Subs: Peter McVann (Sligo), Jim Dooney (Sligo), Pat White (Sligo), Frank Kelly (Roscommon), Tim Lynch (Roscommon), Joe Bohan (Leitrim), Mick Flanagan (Mayo), John Forde (Mayo)

52 team was:


Sean Wynne - Mayo
Bill McQuillan - Ros
Paddy Predergast - Mayo
Sean Flanagan capt - Mayo
Joe Staunton - Mayo
John McAndrew - Mayo
Frank Kelly - Roscommon
Eamon Mongey - Mayo
Gerry O'Malley - Ros
Sean Purcell - Galway
Padraig Carney - Mayo
Tom McHugh - Galway
Joe Masterson - Sligo
Tom Langan - Mayo
Ned Keogh - Galway

Subs: John Forde (Mayo), Sean Mulderrig - (Mayo), Nace O'Dowd (Sligo), Frank White (Sligo), Eamon Boland (Ros)

Don't know who Tom McHugh was but he can say he part of a half-forward line of Purcell and Carney and himself!

According to the caption it was the 52 team but with Peter Solan in the starting 15 it would more likely have been 51 so. Solan is 3rd from right in front row in photo. He does nt appear to have been involved in 52.
Anyway just wonderin if people can put names to the faces in the photo. There are about 5 I cant put a name on.

Quote from: rosnarun on October 29, 2009, 02:53:51 AM
the 3 best
for the sad week thats in it (and i still stand over Aidan 12 years later)
1)ciaran Mcdonald
2)aidan o shea
3)Oisin Mullen

the 3 that coulda make a difference
1) mark butler
2)padraic Brogan
3)Oisin Mullen

1. KEEGAN
2. Moran
3. McDonald.

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 08:08:44 PM
1. Mc Donald
2. Keegan
3. Mc stay

1. McDonald
2. Keegan
3. Higgins

Keegan, Higgins, undecided on No. 3.