Mayo's (Where football is life) 3 greatest players

[mayo 4 eva]

Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3. Brian Heffernan4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7. Pat McAndrew
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth! Ginger
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Brian Heffernan would have been a straight sawp for Flanagan who got injured straight away in the 97 AI final, instead whole team was re shuffled, hence Brian Heffernan could be classed as a player that was under used.Case to be made for Ginger and McAndrew from Cross too.

[blast05]

Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3.
4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7.
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth!
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Would be interesting to see peoples reasons as well .... take Gary Ruane - he captained Mayo in an All-Ireland football final so why is he on the list below ? Billie Fitz for example just wasn't good enough for all his efforts to re-write and re-talk history imho. Kevin Staunton was given plenty of chances. Personally i wouldn't be one for thinking about such lists though cos if you look into it there is always a valid reason

Offbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

Farmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade.

Well Eugene Lavin and Peter Burke as carpenters must have used a hammer so instead of a spade !!

[muppet]

Why go looking for perceived victims of something or other?

We seem to prefer martyrs to winners.

[stephenite]

Whilst I agree with Muppet's comment about preferring martyrs to winners, Brian Heffernan was one of the best defenders I've ever seen. Was always able to hold Ciaran Mac pretty well

[blast05]

Theres always a reason Stephenite. I could only speculate re why Heffernan wasn't brought on but even Maughan (+ Forde and O'Malley) wouldn't have been stupid enough to change every line on the pitch unless there was good reason.
But extending from what Muppet says - he can live out his days knowing that when football talk comes up in Ballina and the mid 90's are the topic of discussion it'll be along the lines of "jaysus, Brian Heffernan was fierce hard done by, he was a great bit of stuff that always held McDonald but that bolloux Maughan wouldn't play him cos with him being from Crossmolina it would have looked fierce bad to have 3 Ballina men on the team and only 1 from Cross" and 1001 variations of that conversation....
Martyrs, persecution complexes, paranoia, chip on the shoulder stuff ... serves no purpose

[stephenite]

Ah I know all that Blast, Heffo can be lumped into the same category as O'Neill, Staunton, Butler and all the rest of them. I doubt if anyone in Ballina would ever take the line that it was because maughan hailed from Crossmolina.

I had the opportunity to ask John maughan about it - his answer was that it was his opinion that Brian heffernan wasn't good enough. Can't really argue with that now, can you?

[RedandGreenSniper]

Really good thread lads! What we wouldn't do for a few of the quality defenders mentioned above to still be playing now.  Anyway, it got me thinking (not sure if its been done before), what would be the (for what ever reason), an unlucky/under used Mayo 15 of all time (positions not that important) and why?  My age only permits  me to go back so far in time so i'll need some help. Feel free to say if posters think if players were not up to scratch.

1. Ivan Heffernan Ballina/ Barry Heffernan Crossmolina
2. Gary ruane
3.
4. Ray Connelly
5. Peter Butler
6.
7.
8. Kevin Staunton
9. 1 of the two lads that won an all ireland for louth!
10.
11. Padraig Brogan
12. Mcd (Should still be playing in my opinion)
13. Kevin O Neill
14. Loftus lad from burishoole
15. Billie Fitzpatrick

Would be interesting to see peoples reasons as well .... take Gary Ruane - he captained Mayo in an All-Ireland football final so why is he on the list below ? Billie Fitz for example just wasn't good enough for all his efforts to re-write and re-talk history imho. Kevin Staunton was given plenty of chances. Personally i wouldn't be one for thinking about such lists though cos if you look into it there is always a valid reason

Offbeat questions ...... what Mayo midfielder kicked most scores from play in a league or championship game in the last 15 years (maybe more, i can't recall beyond that) ?

Farmer/carpenters have never been flavour of the month in Mayo dressing rooms if we want to call a spade a spade.

Well Eugene Lavin and Peter Burke as carpenters must have used a hammer so instead of a spade !!

David Brady's three points against Tyrone in 2004?

[moysider]

Ah I know all that Blast, Heffo can be lumped into the same category as O'Neill, Staunton, Butler and all the rest of them. I doubt if anyone in Ballina would ever take the line that it was because maughan hailed from Crossmolina.

I had the opportunity to ask John maughan about it - his answer was that it was his opinion that Brian heffernan wasn't good enough. Can't really argue with that now, can you?

I remember talking to a Mayo selector midweek in the run up to that final. Connelly s dad was gravely ill and it looked like Noel might miss the game. I suggested Heff could come straight in and judging by the eye rolling and gurning that I got I realised that the lad was not in the picture - under any circumstances.
Maughan has also gone on record as saying that he did nt think Kevin O Neill was good enough at the time either. Cant argue with that. His call. His to get wrong.

John did an awful lot of good in his time with Mayo and would have done it all if he had nt a few blind spots. He put his thrust in a few old comrades like Flanagan, Reilly, Holmes and Finnerty. In fairness they served him well to an extent but lacked the quality/fitness that others he had at his disposal may well have had at the time. In a couple of cases he seemed to prefer lads who were vocal in the dressing room to lads who were quiet and maybe a bit withdrawn. Butler, Ruane and Heffernan led by example on the pitch but were hardly army officer material in the briefing room. They may not have been 'stiff -upper-lip chaps' but they thrived in the trenches. Depends what your into really.

[moysider]

Why go looking for perceived victims of something or other?

We seem to prefer martyrs to winners.

Maybe because we dont have any winners Muppet in the last 50+ years. And some of us know it should nt have turned out this way.
Nobody else has mentioned victim or martyr. For years Mayo football has been about licking wounds and not daring to look back. Only winners write memoirs and we ll never really know what has been going through the minds of Mayo managers these last 25 years and why they made some of the decisions they did.  Personally I think it could have been all a lot better without an awful lot of rocket science needed. Likes of Ger Geraghty, McDonald, O Neill, Tiernan, Ray Connelly, Staunton, Butler, Aiden Higgins,  Brogan, Michael Collins, Willie Nally, Gary Ruane and Brian Heffernan did not wear the jersey as often as they should have.
Sure there were others who had it but could take it or leave it but the above and a few more were genuine players and just a bit of cop dealing with them have gone a long way.

[blast05]

Lads, a manager saying "not good enough" can act as a coverall statement for all manner of reasons...........

Moysider, re your list, i could counter with:
Ger Geraghty - emigrated to the States if i am not mistaken
McDonald - not available in 1996 for example as he went to the States for the summer ... and was no talking to him.
O Neill - was not conisdered in 1996  cos "was not good enough" ( i have my opinions on that), but for example was a shoe in for a final place in 97 until he broke his leg. There was no conspiracy theory re him not playing regularly imho .... more like he was regularly injured and his work committments
Tiernan - he got loads of chance but was never going to be effective enough (cos of his lack of size) in the engine against a top side.
Ray Connelly - to say he was injury prone would be an understatement
Staunton - got loads of chances. Never had the real real agression needed to match his size
Butler - injuries again
Aiden Higgins - i would say there are more people arguing that he got too many chance than too few and then when he was against a top opponent he was exposed. Think v Cork in 99
Brogan - had his own demons as we know that prevented him from fulfilling potential
Michael Collins - i'm actually struggling to counter you on this one. I think it was simply a case of it being '89 before he had learned how to become an effective inter county footballer.
Willie Nally - i'll have to pass. Can't remember
Gary Ruane - captained his county in an All-Ireland final. I wouldn't think he has too many regrets. The arguments is that he should probably have featured in 96 or 97 but ahead of Mortimer or Flanagan ? Not for me
Brian Heffernan - "not good enough" as Stephenite was told

[stephenite]

Lads, a manager saying "not good enough" can act as a coverall statement for all manner of reasons...........

Exactly - as Moysider says though, it was his call to make. I wouldn't expect JM to answer the question any other way. Especially when talking to a drunk in the foyer of the Burlington at 4:30am on a Tuesday night

[Lar Naparka]

One thing was obvious about John Maughan throughout his ic managerial career and that was that he set and demanded high standards in many ways. That most likely was down to his army background but if I had to think of a by-line for his biography it would be, “My Way or the Highway.”
His personal integrity was never an issue for me but his judgement and communication skills certainly were/are. Like John O’Mahony, he knew the Mayo job was never likely to be an easy one and controversy was going to dog his every step.
I honestly think his apparent inability to compromise in any way caused most of the problems that inevitably arose whenever and wherever he took up the manager’s job.
He never quite got the credit for his achievements along the way for his difficulties with players and officials along the line saw to that. I’d rate a Munster title for Clare and a few All Ireland finals for Mayo as outstanding   proofs of his ability to produce results, often very much against the odds.
Still, he had stints with Clare, Fermanagh and Roscommon as well as a couple with Mayo and the one common denominator all through was that he left under strained circumstances. The Fermanagh players revolted and the Rossie fans ran him out of town. With Clare it could be charitably said that his departure was accepted by all sides with considerable relief. I’d suggest the same applied to his terms with Mayo. The side he took to the final in ’96 had been going nowhere but his ability to organise a total rabble into the best team in the land in a remarkably short space of time is utterly overlooked. Still, when he decided to step down after that spell in charge, after saying that he felt he was unable to progress any further, not a single player or official openly asked him to stay. I don’t think us fans protested much either!
I don’t think for a minute that he felt that he treated any player from Knockmore badly because of the club they came from or because there was an obvious row between himself and the Knockmore manager of the time.

But he could have handled the problems with the Knockmore lads a whole lot better. I’m thinking of Kevin O’Neill’s case in particular.  Maybe Kevin did not perform to his standards when he was playing with the panel. Then again, players are at least as highly-strung as their managers and it might be hard to play to your potential if you have been rollicked by your manger for failing to give him your total loyalty and commitment.
I can only surmise but I will never change my opinion that Kevin O’Neill would be rated higher in any other manager’s estimation than Tom Reilly. Reilly was an honest player and probably gave Maughan the commitment he valued more than anything else. But he was no Kevin O’Neill.
Maughan never seemed to learn as he went along. He set his standards and expected every one to meet them at all times and in all circumstances. Anything else was unacceptable. When he walked into the Roscommon job and straight away dropped Frankie Dolan and Shane Curran he was setting himself up for an inevitable pasting. Rossie fans have to be admired for their commitment and loyalty to their cause.
They had their backs up from the word go and without doubt so had the players. Any one who marches into a neighbouring county and fires the two best-loved characters on the panel before he even takes begins serious training really can expect nothing but hostility. Given the rivalry between Mayo and Roscommon, that was about the daftest thing he could think of. When he couldn’t rapidly bring about dramatic improvements, he was a dead man walking.
Maybe the Rossie fans showed uncharacteristic restraint when they ‘invited’ him to eff off!

[AbbeySider]

I would be looking at All-Stars to find the greatest...
...
Reflecting in that list, you have to respect each player for being one of the best of their era...
...
Top 5... no particular order...
...
Willie Joe Padden
James Nallen
Kenneth Mortimer
James Horan
Ciaran McDonald
...
After that, to narrow it down, you would be looking at the most influencial, and who performed on the big days...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyway

Getting back to the topic (apologies Lar)....

Ive had some time to think about my selections and they are probably unfairly based on more modern players. I mentioned some of the older players, but looking at it they cant really be left off the last just because I wasnt around to see them.

It cant be denied that Sean Flanagan made the team of the millennium, captained Mayo to double All Ireland success in 1950-51 and was ranked number 47 on the GAAs 125 most influential list so he is now my number one.

My second has to be Tommy Langan. One of the greatest full-forwards of all time he was named on the Football Team of the Century in 1984 and on the Football Team of the Millennium.

They say great players would have been great in any generation, given the same training techniques and fitness expertise so these guys are on my list.

After that I cant choose one from
Willie Joe Padden / James Nallen / Kenneth Mortimer / James Horan / Ciaran McDonald

all of which were have merit.


So
The Greatest....

1. Sean Flanagan
2. Tommy Langan
3. Willie Joe Padden / James Nallen / Kenneth Mortimer / James Horan / Ciaran McDonald

[gaa.boy]

Guys, my knowledge of Mayo football is fairly limited. I used to play a bit of football in the states about 10 years ago and there was a guy playing over there with myself called Ronan Golding. All of the Mayo guys out there would have told me that he was possibly the best footballer to ever come from the county, but quit playing too early for whatever reason. -Something similar to John Corvan and Armagh. I was wondering how the Mayo posters here rated him as a player?

[the Deel Rover]

Guys, my knowledge of Mayo football is fairly limited. I used to play a bit of football in the states about 10 years ago and there was a guy playing over there with myself called Ronan Golding. All of the Mayo guys out there would have told me that he was possibly the best footballer to ever come from the county, but quit playing too early for whatever reason. -Something similar to John Corvan and Armagh. I was wondering how the Mayo posters here rated him as a player?

ah ronan goulding or zuby as he was also known captained the mayo under 21 in 1994 or 1995 . he was a handy enough player but imo definately not one of the best to come from the county. He used to play with Balla, a decent skin ran a pub in balla for a while before emigrating