Grimley in surprise Monaghan move
Paul Grimley has been named as the new assistant manager with Monaghan after turning down the chance of becoming boss of his native Armagh.
Grimley was the favourite to succeed Peter McDonnell in the Orchard post after quitting as assistant to Kieran McGeeney at Kildare.
His surprise appointment came just hours after Seamus McEnaney decided to remain as Farney manager.
McEnaney considered quitting after the All-Ireland qualifier defeat by Derry.
He informed the county board of his decision to take charge for a sixth consecutive year on Tuesday evening.
Marty McElkennon, who had been strongly linked with a move to Derry, is staying on as team trainer.
Grimley was Armagh assistant boss during Joe Kernan's reign and he was pipped for the top job by McDonnell in 2007.
The Pearse Og man is currently coaching Monaghan side Clontibret and has guided them to the county club semi-finals.
BBC Sport
gutted,thought he was coming back to armagh for sure,obviously still has difficulties with cty board,monaghans gain :-\
Why would anyone move from Assistant Manager with Kildare to Assistant Manager with Monaghan?
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 09:42:14 AM
Why would anyone move from Assistant Manager with Kildare to Assistant Manager with Monaghan?
Because he seems determined to embarrass the Armagh Co Board as much as possible.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on September 02, 2009, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 09:42:14 AM
Why would anyone move from Assistant Manager with Kildare to Assistant Manager with Monaghan?
Because he seems determined to embarrass the Armagh Co Board as much as possible.
I'd say he's pissed of a lot of Armagh people instead
1. Mileage
2. Realisation that Mc geeney is NO.1 at Kildare for the long haul
3. Mc Enaney taking charge for probably a final year
4. Realisation that with armagh you cant make a silk purse out a sows ear !
Holy fcuk!! Didn't see that one coming! Very disappointed, as Logan has said why go for assistant manager in Monaghan with the Armagh job up for grabs, fully understand his reasons for not wanting to go through the interview process but I thought he would've given the selection committee a chance to weigh up their options before taking another job. He obviously doesn't trust the county board but with Paul McGrane and Gerard Davidson involved he could've bided his time.
Quote from: Bensars on September 02, 2009, 09:47:33 AM
1. Mileage
2. Realisation that Mc geeney is NO.1 at Kildare for the long haul
3. Mc Enaney taking charge for probably a final year
4. Realisation that with armagh you cant make a silk purse out a sows ear !
Monaghan CB must have agreed a secret deal for Grimley to take over after the Banty leaves
1. Mileage? - I find it hard to imagine that Kildare couldn't pay him more! Monaghan can hardly pay two men?
2. Agreed - still comfy situation to be in
3. That would be one reason to stay away unless he's taking over after
4. U21's and Minors? Least plausible reason
The only proper reason would be £££ or a promise of inheriting the county team
Perhaps he see more potential with Monaghan than Armagh - the orchard county may be in for a long stint in the also ran league.
Quote from: mackers on September 02, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
Holy fcuk!! Didn't see that one coming! Very disappointed, as Logan has said why go for assistant manager in Monaghan with the Armagh job up for grabs, fully understand his reasons for not wanting to go through the interview process but I thought he would've given the selection committee a chance to weigh up their options before taking another job. He obviously doesn't trust the county board but with Paul McGrane and Gerard Davidson involved he could've bided his time.
;D ;D
I don't care who you are but I don't think you can be too big headed not to go for an interview!
Some exodus from Armagh now!
Galway, Monaghan, Kildare .... wow!
Tell me this folks.
Is Grimley totally beyond criticism?
What makes him entitled to get the Armagh job now, the last time or ever?
Apparently the last time he did a totally useless interview. He changed his backroom team twice during the interview process and actually hadn't even informed his supposed backroom staff that he had picked them. He was dire. And at that time, what was his managerial experience? No 2 in Armagh whom he left and then went to Cavan for a disastrous spell.
His 2 years with Kildare have not yielded anything really - a defeat to Wicklow last year, an easy run to the Leinster final this year where they were beaten by a rubbish Dublin side and then losing to Tyrone who were then beaten well.
And why shouldn't he go for interview like all the other candidates? WHat's different about him that others who are interested, like Justy McNulty should be told - No thanks, we just went for Big Paul.
ANd now, after all the tiptoeing round him, the County Board electing Gerard Davidson as their rep who is his friend and the 5 man selection committee being given the power to approach him if they want, he goes off and takes Monaghan.
Let's be honest here folks. Love of the Armagh jersey is far down some people's lists of priorities. It's all about MONEY!!!
Quote from: Seany on September 02, 2009, 09:57:56 AM
Tell me this folks.
Is Grimley totally beyond criticism?
What makes him entitled to get the Armagh job now, the last time or ever?
Apparently the last time he did a totally useless interview. He changed his backroom team twice during the interview process and actually hadn't even informed his supposed backroom staff that he had picked them. He was dire. And at that time, what was his managerial experience? No 2 in Armagh whom he left and then went to Cavan for a disastrous spell.
His 2 years with Kildare have not yielded anything really - a defeat to Wicklow last year, an easy run to the Leinster final this year where they were beaten by a rubbish Dublin side and then losing to Tyrone who were then beaten well.
And why shouldn't he go for interview like all the other candidates? WHat's different about him that others who are interested, like Justy McNulty should be told - No thanks, we just went for Big Paul.
ANd now, after all the tiptoeing round him, the County Board electing Gerard Davidson as their rep who is his friend and the 5 man selection committee being given the power to approach him if they want, he goes off and takes Monaghan.
Let's be honest here folks. Love of the Armagh jersey is far down some people's lists of priorities. It's all about MONEY!!!
Was that this year or last?
Who were on his two backroom teams?
This was when McDonnell got the job. Two years ago.
I don't have anything against Grimley and by all accounts he is a decent lad, but I was always suspicious of whether or not he'd take it because of the lack of big bucks connected with the job.
And now the interview process must begin. And candidates will go to interview in the knowledge that the number one choice has turned them down.
He should never get the Armagh job now.
Who was supposedly on his backroom team then this time?
I'd heard names - but must have been badly wrong!
Who are the other candidates?
Got to hand it to the Banty - I guess it's ... Monaghan 1 Armagh 0
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 09:53:59 AM
Quote from: Bensars on September 02, 2009, 09:47:33 AM
1. Mileage
2. Realisation that Mc geeney is NO.1 at Kildare for the long haul
3. Mc Enaney taking charge for probably a final year
4. Realisation that with armagh you cant make a silk purse out a sows ear !
Monaghan CB must have agreed a secret deal for Grimley to take over after the Banty leaves
1. Mileage? - I find it hard to imagine that Kildare couldn't pay him more! Monaghan can hardly pay two men?
2. Agreed - still comfy situation to be in
3. That would be one reason to stay away unless he's taking over after
4. U21's and Minors? Least plausible reason
The only proper reason would be £££ or a promise of inheriting the county team
Why though- Monaghan have very little coming through and largely rely on the current team which won't be there forever. Must be some deal, because thats a baffling move from a coaching perspective. Still thats a great coup for Monaghan but from his perspective thats a strange one.
Armagh have a lot of good players around the 18-21 mark and still some good ones in the mid to late-20's. Just badly organised thats all.
Until I have the full facts I'm not going to take a swipe at Grimley, I know that the players wanted him for the job and they must feel more gutted than we do at the minute. Obviously I'm biased as an Armagh man but I think the post is better for Grimley with better underage talent coming through in Armagh. This was his chance to get the no 1 job in Armagh as I believe in 3 years or so the next manager will be Geezer and if we have the right man now to bring the talent along I see us challenging again at the top table in 3 years or so (despite what the Tyrone intelligentsia think).
Anyone consider that maybe Grimley doesn't want to be number one and is waiting for Mc Geeney to get it so he can be number 2.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 02, 2009, 10:25:13 AM
Anyone consider that maybe Grimley doesn't want to be number one and is waiting for Mc Geeney to get it so he can be number 2.
Why bother moving from Kildare then?
Quote from: INDIANA on September 02, 2009, 10:25:13 AM
Anyone consider that maybe Grimley doesn't want to be number one and is waiting for Mc Geeney to get it so he can be number 2.
No
I think Monaghan have simply offered him the hot seat next year.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 02, 2009, 10:25:13 AM
Anyone consider that maybe Grimley doesn't want to be number one and is waiting for Mc Geeney to get it so he can be number 2.
You may be right but in an interview earlier in the year in the Tribune he said that he was only interested in one "no 1" post and that was in Armagh. If Logan is correct and he's taking this on the understanding that he's getting the top seat in Monaghan then it is even more disappointing.
Well he is training a team in Monaghan as well, he may have found the whole thing too much travelling. As long as monaghan were able to match the deal, why not. i can't see Mc Geeney going into the Armagh with anyone else. Regardless of any reservations armagh have about Grimley if Mc Geeney wants him as his number two - he'll get him. Its the only thing that makes any sense to me.
Otherwise he's all but given up being involved with Armagh. But I can't see a long-term future in Monaghan. Makes no sense everybody knows Armagh have way more ability coming through the ranks than Monaghan and could have a very nice team in a couple of seasons.
Now there's a bolt from the blue - to be honest I didn't see that one coming at all.
And I can't for the life of me understand his motivation.
One general observation I would make is that a lot of these men have been with their own counties and most have found that unless you win something, you're useless. Maybe, and it's only a maybe, but it might be that they feel more appreciated in an outside county/club than their own. Cynics might say that they're better compensated as well.
As Mackers says, it's hard to comment too much on this without knowing the facts but i would hope that he didn't do this to spite the county board, i.e. payback for two years ago. That wouldn't be a good basis for taking up another position. It will be interesting to find out if Grimley agreed to be nominated by the clubs for the Armagh job.
In pure footballing terms it's hard to make an argument for taking up with Monaghan over Armagh a) What more can be gotten out of the current Monaghan side? and b) there's a lot of good young talent coming through in Armagh and not least c) Armagh's his county!
From his track record to date it looks like Paul prefers being a no.2. and maybe being the main main at the helm doesn't rest easily with him. That's now Armagh, Kildare and Cavan he's been no.2 and he didn't stick around too long in Cavan and Kildare.
There are no strong available candidates within the county for the job at the moment imo. May have to look outside now.
very interesting
time will tell if he gets the monaghan managers role
until then I'd say the travelling time takes its toll
and one final thing , while he did learn a lot under Kernan, I would love to have the opportunity to see how the likes of Harte or McEnaney go about their business as team managers.
A lot can be learned from this - esp man motivation, tactics, hardness etc etc.
After this experience Grimley will be even better equipped to take over managers role somewhere - the smart move would be the continuity of stepping up at monaghan, but a year is a long time in football and people fall out etc.
Also maybe he doesnt want to be a number 1 man.
time will tell but this is def a very interesting appointment.
Based on his track record you'd not expect him to last/stay long in Monaghan
Quote from: INDIANA on September 02, 2009, 10:33:28 AM
Well he is training a team in Monaghan as well, he may have found the whole thing too much travelling. As long as monaghan were able to match the deal, why not. i can't see Mc Geeney going into the Armagh with anyone else. Regardless of any reservations armagh have about Grimley if Mc Geeney wants him as his number two - he'll get him. Its the only thing that makes any sense to me.Otherwise he's all but given up being involved with Armagh. But I can't see a long-term future in Monaghan. Makes no sense everybody knows Armagh have way more ability coming through the ranks than Monaghan and could have a very nice team in a couple of seasons.
I agree and if we assume that Geezer will take the job the next time (say in 3 years) then it would've been an awkward situation for Grimley to stand down after being no 1 and become an assistant again. That's the theory I'd like to believe this morning anyway!! :-\
Quote from: mackers on September 02, 2009, 10:43:34 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 02, 2009, 10:33:28 AM
Well he is training a team in Monaghan as well, he may have found the whole thing too much travelling. As long as monaghan were able to match the deal, why not. i can't see Mc Geeney going into the Armagh with anyone else. Regardless of any reservations armagh have about Grimley if Mc Geeney wants him as his number two - he'll get him. Its the only thing that makes any sense to me.Otherwise he's all but given up being involved with Armagh. But I can't see a long-term future in Monaghan. Makes no sense everybody knows Armagh have way more ability coming through the ranks than Monaghan and could have a very nice team in a couple of seasons.
I agree and if we assume that Geezer will take the job the next time (say in 3 years) then it would've been an awkward situation for Grimley to stand down after being no 1 and become an assistant again. That's the theory I'd like to believe this morning anyway!! :-\
I think there's too many but's and if's in that one ... there's also talk of three years etc etc
Who knows who'll be where in 3 years!
Mickey Harte could be Armagh manager by then - going on todays story I'd not be surprised!
Quote from: mackers on September 02, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
Holy fcuk!! Didn't see that one coming! Very disappointed, as Logan has said why go for assistant manager in Monaghan with the Armagh job up for grabs, fully understand his reasons for not wanting to go through the interview process but I thought he would've given the selection committee a chance to weigh up their options before taking another job. He obviously doesn't trust the county board but with Paul McGrane and Gerard Davidson involved he could've bided his time.
he was told that he would have to go thru the interview preocess and probably said to feck with that
Quote from: naka on September 02, 2009, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: mackers on September 02, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
Holy fcuk!! Didn't see that one coming! Very disappointed, as Logan has said why go for assistant manager in Monaghan with the Armagh job up for grabs, fully understand his reasons for not wanting to go through the interview process but I thought he would've given the selection committee a chance to weigh up their options before taking another job. He obviously doesn't trust the county board but with Paul McGrane and Gerard Davidson involved he could've bided his time.
he was told that he would have to go thru the interview preocess and probably said to feck with that
... and then walked out of the room and rang Banty?
Hardly
Had he ever any intention of taking it on?
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 11:40:15 AM
Quote from: naka on September 02, 2009, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: mackers on September 02, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
Holy fcuk!! Didn't see that one coming! Very disappointed, as Logan has said why go for assistant manager in Monaghan with the Armagh job up for grabs, fully understand his reasons for not wanting to go through the interview process but I thought he would've given the selection committee a chance to weigh up their options before taking another job. He obviously doesn't trust the county board but with Paul McGrane and Gerard Davidson involved he could've bided his time.
he was told that he would have to go thru the interview preocess and probably said to feck with that
... and then walked out of the room and rang Banty?
Hardly
he was approached by monaghan whilst he was speaking to a member of the selection committee re the armagh post, he set a list of conditions which needed to be met by armagh and had been in place when joe was in charge but most of these conditions were rejected by the county board, grimley went to monaghan when he realised that the county board were unwilling to match his ambition for whatever reason, there will be fall out from this as it was common knowledge that discussions were taking place
Had he ever any intention of taking it on?
Is there enough money in the Monaghan County Board for the mileage for them all?
It's one thing paying one, now paying two? Not many other county teams doing that! Wonder what does the Director General think now?
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on September 02, 2009, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 09:42:14 AM
Why would anyone move from Assistant Manager with Kildare to Assistant Manager with Monaghan?
Because he seems determined to embarrass the Armagh Co Board as much as possible.
I'd say he's pissed of a lot of Armagh people instead
i'd disagree there logan. he's had to do what he had to do. anyone who knows anything about him would say he'd be 110% into the footballing progress of whatever county and for whatever job he takes on. he's had his eyes well opened by that Armagh county board and he is sticking to his principles. for him it might not always be about being in the limelight or collecting a nice thick brown envelope and i certainly dont think it is on his agenda to embarrass the county board, they do a good enough job of that themselves.
It is annoying for us certainly and definitely moreso for the players but until certain things are fixed/tidied up in the running of our county board then it's most likely the team will be the biggest sufferers if a loss like grimley is anything to go by. grimley will continue to ply his skills elsewhere (outside armagh) for the foreseeable future i doubt.
I can't disagree with any of that - But lets be honest - he knew long before this what the Armagh CB were like - he could have made his mind up long ago? No?
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 12:52:19 PM
Is there enough money in the Monaghan County Board for the mileage for them all?
It's one thing paying one, now paying two? Not many other county teams doing that! Wonder what does the Director General think now?
Sssssssssh ! ;) He's hoping nobody will notice.
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
I can't disagree with any of that - But lets be honest - he knew long before this what the Armagh CB were like - he could have made his mind up long ago? No?
any man can live in hope! but yeah he'd have had a fair idea i'm sure. and i'd say he's now expressed his opinion to them of how he wanted the job, at the end of the day that is all it should take....i'm not saying he shouldn't have to go through the full interview process like any other man but i think we'd agree this should be a bit of open and shut case. continued failure as in the previous 2 years can take a long long time to recover from
Quote from: Abble on September 02, 2009, 01:20:32 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 02, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
I can't disagree with any of that - But lets be honest - he knew long before this what the Armagh CB were like - he could have made his mind up long ago? No?
any man can live in hope! but yeah he'd have had a fair idea i'm sure. and i'd say he's now expressed his opinion to them of how he wanted the job, at the end of the day that is all it should take....i'm not saying he shouldn't have to go through the full interview process like any other man but i think we'd agree this should be a bit of open and shut case. continued failure as in the previous 2 years can take a long long time to recover from
No man should be above it - I would think - even if it was open and shut (Which I actually agree with you about)
But it just gives the wrong example to players too
Anyway ... wonder who is left in the race now for Armagh?
McAlinden?
Please do not use the word 'Principle' when referring to this person any more.
Also refrain from blaming the CB. Nothing to do with them. They picked a five man panel consisting of an Armagh legend, Grimley's friend, an independent chairman and county chairman and sec. to select the new manager. ALl totally in order. Not their fault that the lure of cash before county was obviously big enough to make him head for Monaghan.
He's totally lost my respect. Remember - this is OUR county we're talking and what's best for the group of palyers that are there. He knew the job was his but just had to be a bit patient. Did he think he was on a higher plane than Neil Smith, or Justy, or the other people who the clubs have nominated for the job? Nominaitons only closed last Friday and the committee hadn't even met yet, and he wanted a rubber stamp job done!
Sorry - I'm sure he'll try and spin this one out like the one he told the Tribune that he heard he hadn't got the job by teletext when the chairman and sec. had actually gone to his house hours before to tell him face to face that he hadn't got it.
The more I think of this, the more sickened I get by what he has done to our county. And he hasn't done it to the County Board. he's done it to US!!! the ordinary gaels of the county who wanted him to get the job.
Maybe Big Joe was right all along!!
Good luck to Paul, he's got his own back on the armagh county board but has also kicked his own county in the balls. I might be wrong but I can't help feeling he knew exactly what he was doing, just like the ones who shafted him a few years ago he's allowed personal difference get in the way of what's best for the county. That's makes him no better than them in my eyes.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 02, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Good luck to Paul, he's got his own back on the armagh county board but has also kicked his own county in the balls. I might be wrong but I can't help feeling he knew exactly what he was doing, just like the ones who shafted him a few years ago he's allowed personal difference get in the way of what's best for the county. That's makes him no better than them in my eyes.
I think there was a certain amount of brinkmanship in the way he dealt with it. It is obvious that there discussions behind the scenes. it was an open secret that he was the number one candidate. Apparently there was a meeting over the weekend where he outlined his agenda and it was not acceptable by the CB. They may have had very valid reasons for their approach, and I cannot speculate on what he put forward, but I was informed that the issue of funding was a major stumbling block the last time and it may have been an issue this time around. He tried to call the CB's bluff this time round and they didn't bite.
I can assure this couldn'thave happened because that five man committee hasn't even met yet. (officially!)
Quote
Sorry - I'm sure he'll try and spin this one out like the one he told the Tribune that he heard he hadn't got the job by teletext when the chairman and sec. had actually gone to his house hours before to tell him face to face that he hadn't got it.
Is that definitley true seany? Very bad form if it is.
Absolutely 100% true.
That was a total lie in the Tribune.
Quote from: Seany on September 02, 2009, 01:56:14 PM
Absolutely 100% true.
That was a total lie in the Tribune.
I read that story and thought that what they did on Grimley was way out of order.But if you're saying that he had been visited beforehand, that's entirely different.
Sounds like he never wanted the job at all.
Quote from: Seany on September 02, 2009, 01:41:42 PM
Please do not use the word 'Principle' when referring to this person any more.
Also refrain from blaming the CB. Nothing to do with them. They picked a five man panel consisting of an Armagh legend, Grimley's friend, an independent chairman and county chairman and sec. to select the new manager. ALl totally in order. Not their fault that the lure of cash before county was obviously big enough to make him head for Monaghan.
He's totally lost my respect. Remember - this is OUR county we're talking and what's best for the group of palyers that are there. He knew the job was his but just had to be a bit patient. Did he think he was on a higher plane than Neil Smith, or Justy, or the other people who the clubs have nominated for the job? Nominaitons only closed last Friday and the committee hadn't even met yet, and he wanted a rubber stamp job done!
Sorry - I'm sure he'll try and spin this one out like the one he told the Tribune that he heard he hadn't got the job by teletext when the chairman and sec. had actually gone to his house hours before to tell him face to face that he hadn't got it.
The more I think of this, the more sickened I get by what he has done to our county. And he hasn't done it to the County Board. he's done it to US!!! the ordinary gaels of the county who wanted him to get the job.
Maybe Big Joe was right all along!!
Seany
Just been reading through the last two pages and appears you have a major chip on your shoulder regarding Grimley and appear to have alot of inside knowledge of the county board!!!!
Are you Paddy Og in disguise???
While Seany is going too far for me, Grimley has to understand what he has done here has a major impact on supporters and players who had high hopes for the next few years under his leadership. I hope that he has damned good reasons for this. According to the BBC News at lunchtime Armagh are going to continue to persuade Grimley to take the job...............we'll see.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 02, 2009, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 02, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Good luck to Paul, he's got his own back on the armagh county board but has also kicked his own county in the balls. I might be wrong but I can't help feeling he knew exactly what he was doing, just like the ones who shafted him a few years ago he's allowed personal difference get in the way of what's best for the county. That's makes him no better than them in my eyes.
I think there was a certain amount of brinkmanship in the way he dealt with it. It is obvious that there discussions behind the scenes. it was an open secret that he was the number one candidate. Apparently there was a meeting over the weekend where he outlined his agenda and it was not acceptable by the CB. They may have had very valid reasons for their approach, and I cannot speculate on what he put forward, but I was informed that the issue of funding was a major stumbling block the last time and it may have been an issue this time around. He tried to call the CB's bluff this time round and they didn't bite.
One of the versions of the fallout from 2007 has it that Grimley had secured fudning for his plans for development of the team, albeit that the funding would be coming from a different source than previously.
THough i don't know the man, I find it very hard to believe that Grimley told a complete lie to the Tribune.
Quote from: mackers on September 02, 2009, 02:55:50 PM
While Seany is going too far for me, Grimley has to understand what he has done here has a major impact on supporters and players who had high hopes for the next few years under his leadership. I hope that he has damned good reasons for this. According to the BBC News at lunchtime Armagh are going to continue to persuade Grimley to take the job...............we'll see.
Note -
There's been NO confirmation Grimley is out of the race
There's been NO confirmation Grimley is with Monaghan
I'd not be surprised to see a twist yet.
But I kind of agree with Seany ... if Grimley does go it looks poorly in my opinion on him.
Quote from: Carbery on September 02, 2009, 09:31:54 AM
Grimley in surprise Monaghan move
Paul Grimley has been named as the new assistant manager with Monaghan after turning down the chance of becoming boss of his native Armagh.
Grimley was the favourite to succeed Peter McDonnell in the Orchard post after quitting as assistant to Kieran McGeeney at Kildare.
His surprise appointment came just hours after Seamus McEnaney decided to remain as Farney manager.
McEnaney considered quitting after the All-Ireland qualifier defeat by Derry.
He informed the county board of his decision to take charge for a sixth consecutive year on Tuesday evening.
Marty McElkennon, who had been strongly linked with a move to Derry, is staying on as team trainer.
Grimley was Armagh assistant boss during Joe Kernan's reign and he was pipped for the top job by McDonnell in 2007.
The Pearse Og man is currently coaching Monaghan side Clontibret and has guided them to the county club semi-finals.
BBC Sport
Just noticed that the BBC story quoted above says that Paul Grimley has already been named as part of the Monaghan set-up.
The story on BBC now only goes as far as to say that he is "
set to be named" as McEnaney's assistant. Could be an important but subtle change.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8233260.stm
the bbc is gettin worse than the sun....
i'm thinking now about the paddy bradley quittin incident this summer.. :o
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on September 02, 2009, 03:05:11 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 02, 2009, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 02, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Good luck to Paul, he's got his own back on the armagh county board but has also kicked his own county in the balls. I might be wrong but I can't help feeling he knew exactly what he was doing, just like the ones who shafted him a few years ago he's allowed personal difference get in the way of what's best for the county. That's makes him no better than them in my eyes.
I think there was a certain amount of brinkmanship in the way he dealt with it. It is obvious that there discussions behind the scenes. it was an open secret that he was the number one candidate. Apparently there was a meeting over the weekend where he outlined his agenda and it was not acceptable by the CB. They may have had very valid reasons for their approach, and I cannot speculate on what he put forward, but I was informed that the issue of funding was a major stumbling block the last time and it may have been an issue this time around. He tried to call the CB's bluff this time round and they didn't bite.
One of the versions of the fallout from 2007 has it that Grimley had secured fudning for his plans for development of the team, albeit that the funding would be coming from a different source than previously.
THough i don't know the man, I find it very hard to believe that Grimley told a complete lie to the Tribune.
100% correct TAM, he had his own financial backers lined up as he knew that Morgan would pull the plug.
That wasn't the case this time though with Morgan
No, I'm not Paddy Óg and I don't have insider information other than that which I have been told by genuine reliable sources from inside the county board executive.
I rate Grimley highly and was really looking forward to seeing him take on Armagh. i reallly felt he was the man.
I am just totally pissed off with him.
It's obvious that it's all about money. We have all been hoodwinked.
Monaghan can't have more money than Armagh?
Quote from: JMohan on September 02, 2009, 04:19:02 PM
Monaghan can't have more money than Armagh?
didnt they 'find gold in them thar hills' in Monaghan in the last couple of years?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 02, 2009, 05:01:30 PM
Quote from: JMohan on September 02, 2009, 04:19:02 PM
Monaghan can't have more money than Armagh?
didnt they 'find gold in them thar hills' in Monaghan in the last couple of years?
Aye, in Clontibret, coincidentally the same club Grimley is coaching! :o
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 02, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Good luck to Paul, he's got his own back on the armagh county board but has also kicked his own county in the balls. I might be wrong but I can't help feeling he knew exactly what he was doing, just like the ones who shafted him a few years ago he's allowed personal difference get in the way of what's best for the county. That's makes him no better than them in my eyes.
Bitterly disappointed by Grimley's actions here, I think he would have been better served being Armagh Manager than Monaghans number 2 but this looks like he tried to embarass the co board after he thought they embarassed him a couple of years ago. Two wrongs dont make a right and now we will never know what he could have done as our county manager.
If I was McGeeney I would be pissed at him unless he knew that Grimley would be number one there in Monaghan after they get bounced out early next year.
Quote from: stew on September 02, 2009, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 02, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Good luck to Paul, he's got his own back on the armagh county board but has also kicked his own county in the balls. I might be wrong but I can't help feeling he knew exactly what he was doing, just like the ones who shafted him a few years ago he's allowed personal difference get in the way of what's best for the county. That's makes him no better than them in my eyes.
Bitterly disappointed by Grimley's actions here, I think he would have been better served being Armagh Manager than Monaghans number 2 but this looks like he tried to embarass the co board after he thought they embarassed him a couple of years ago. Two wrongs dont make a right and now we will never know what he could have done as our county manager.
If I was McGeeney I would be pissed at him unless he knew that Grimley would be number one there in Monaghan after they get bounced out early next year.
Sounds like one big managerial game to me.
You see lads now our sport is becomming like soccer and incidents like these are only further evidence to keep money out of our game. In the past two years we have had Mc Geeney taking over in Kildare, Now we see Kernan the man who would never leave linked with Galway and Grimley. Now i am not personally attacking these lads for doing this as they would each have ther own reasons. But what i am saying is that losing these three characters from any county is a massive loss.
These 3 men should be at the helm of Armagh football, these are the men that people would look up to. Instead we see them going to other counties promoting the game and competiting with their own county. The county board should have been bending over backwards to keep men like this but only if they wanted to stay. some responsibilty must lie with the men themselves.
I don't know what these guys are getting promised and most of the stuff on here is pure speculation but surely it is a question of morals. Kernan comes out and states "i couldn't manage any other county" so what has changed??? We have a lot of good lads coming through and in the aftermath of the All Ireland we had great chance to build and go forward. In many ways we have gone backwards. This monetary involvement in football is turning it into a farce.I really can't see how anyones heart could be in managing another county. Really the High levels at the GAA need to take a close look at this before the organistion that we all love goes beyond the point of no return.
This is an interesting one. And no doubt it will run for a while yet.
It makes for a crowded Monaghan sideline next year.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on September 02, 2009, 03:14:09 PM
Quote from: Carbery on September 02, 2009, 09:31:54 AM
Grimley in surprise Monaghan move
Paul Grimley has been named as the new assistant manager with Monaghan after turning down the chance of becoming boss of his native Armagh.
Grimley was the favourite to succeed Peter McDonnell in the Orchard post after quitting as assistant to Kieran McGeeney at Kildare.
His surprise appointment came just hours after Seamus McEnaney decided to remain as Farney manager.
McEnaney considered quitting after the All-Ireland qualifier defeat by Derry.
He informed the county board of his decision to take charge for a sixth consecutive year on Tuesday evening.
Marty McElkennon, who had been strongly linked with a move to Derry, is staying on as team trainer.
Grimley was Armagh assistant boss during Joe Kernan's reign and he was pipped for the top job by McDonnell in 2007.
The Pearse Og man is currently coaching Monaghan side Clontibret and has guided them to the county club semi-finals.
BBC Sport
Just noticed that the BBC story quoted above says that Paul Grimley has already been named as part of the Monaghan set-up.
The story on BBC now only goes as far as to say that he is "set to be named" as McEnaney's assistant. Could be an important but subtle change.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8233260.stm
Yet RTÉ are reporting it like so:
McEnaney to be joined by Grimley
Seamus McEnaney will remain in charge of Monaghan next year and will be joined by Paul Grimley
Wednesday, 2 September 2009 12:22
Monaghan football manager Seamus McEnaney will be joined by Paul Grimley as he continues at the helm next season, it has been revealed.
Monaghan County Board chairman John Connolly revealed that McEnaney's management team will be joined by the manager of club side Clontibert next year.Grimley quit his post as Kildare selector earlier this week and was being linked with a return to his native Armagh.
Long serving boss McEnaney, along with trainer Marty McElkennon, confirmed to Connolly yesterday that he will remain in charge for a sixth season.
'Seamus is staying on, he had a long and hard think about things and came up with the answer we hoped he would,' Connolly said in the Irish Examiner.
I think we should just wait to see how things develop before rushing to judgement. Nothing's certain yet.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 02, 2009, 06:06:51 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on September 02, 2009, 03:14:09 PM
Quote from: Carbery on September 02, 2009, 09:31:54 AM
Grimley in surprise Monaghan move
Paul Grimley has been named as the new assistant manager with Monaghan after turning down the chance of becoming boss of his native Armagh.
Grimley was the favourite to succeed Peter McDonnell in the Orchard post after quitting as assistant to Kieran McGeeney at Kildare.
His surprise appointment came just hours after Seamus McEnaney decided to remain as Farney manager.
McEnaney considered quitting after the All-Ireland qualifier defeat by Derry.
He informed the county board of his decision to take charge for a sixth consecutive year on Tuesday evening.
Marty McElkennon, who had been strongly linked with a move to Derry, is staying on as team trainer.
Grimley was Armagh assistant boss during Joe Kernan's reign and he was pipped for the top job by McDonnell in 2007.
The Pearse Og man is currently coaching Monaghan side Clontibret and has guided them to the county club semi-finals.
BBC Sport
Just noticed that the BBC story quoted above says that Paul Grimley has already been named as part of the Monaghan set-up.
The story on BBC now only goes as far as to say that he is "set to be named" as McEnaney's assistant. Could be an important but subtle change.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8233260.stm
Yet RTÉ are reporting it like so:
McEnaney to be joined by Grimley
Seamus McEnaney will remain in charge of Monaghan next year and will be joined by Paul Grimley
Wednesday, 2 September 2009 12:22
Monaghan football manager Seamus McEnaney will be joined by Paul Grimley as he continues at the helm next season, it has been revealed.
Monaghan County Board chairman John Connolly revealed that McEnaney's management team will be joined by the manager of club side Clontibert next year.
Grimley quit his post as Kildare selector earlier this week and was being linked with a return to his native Armagh.
Long serving boss McEnaney, along with trainer Marty McElkennon, confirmed to Connolly yesterday that he will remain in charge for a sixth season.
'Seamus is staying on, he had a long and hard think about things and came up with the answer we hoped he would,' Connolly said in the Irish Examiner.
That would seem to change things right enough. This is going to get ugly. :(
whats the big deal lads where Grimley goes? It can't be that noteworthy that an Armagh man takes a local county's assistant manager's job surely?
Good news for Monaghan.
We will see how good he is at making silk purses.
He is doing well to be away from the gossipy innuendoes of the backbiting cabal in Armagh.
A lot of theories abound as to why Paul has turned down the job
if indeed this turns out to be the case.
No doubt the theories will multiply just as they did in the
wake of McDonnells resignation.
But I'm with Occam's razor on this one.
"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
Paul Grimley felt shafted by the County Board last time round.
Revenge is a dish best served cold etc
Quote from: Seany on September 02, 2009, 01:41:42 PM
Sorry - I'm sure he'll try and spin this one out like the one he told the Tribune that he heard he hadn't got the job by teletext when the chairman and sec. had actually gone to his house hours before to tell him face to face that he hadn't got it.
The more I think of this, the more sickened I get by what he has done to our county. And he hasn't done it to the County Board. he's done it to US!!! the ordinary gaels of the county who wanted him to get the job.
Maybe Big Joe was right all along!!
I believe Pauls details in the Tribune regarding this matter were very precise. He stated very specific times regarding the events of that night. He has never denied that the county board officials never informed him, his issue was with the timing he was actually made aware. Therefore if you insist that your information is from a direct and reliable source you will have no problem checking these details again and retracting your vindictive statement.
Regarding current circumstances, is the man not available to take up any footballing post he wishes?
What love could Paul Grimley have for Monaghan? What annoys me the most about this is that he strung along the clubs, the CB and the supporters over the past few weeks by not coming out and making it clear he didn't want the job. No one would have had a problem with that. Instead, clubs nominated him in good faith and before the dust settles and the interview process starts he's off to Monaghan. Whatever's gone on behind the scenes it looks like tit for tat. It doesn't reflect well on him and whatever his issues with the CB, its ultimately the county, the team and the supporters that suffer. I think he'll look back and regret this.
Quote from: Armamike on September 02, 2009, 08:50:44 PM
What love could Paul Grimley have for Monaghan? What annoys me the most about this is that he strung along the clubs, the CB and the supporters over the past few weeks by not coming out and making it clear he didn't want the job. No one would have had a problem with that. Instead, clubs nominated him in good faith and before the dust settles and the interview process starts he's off to Monaghan. Whatever's gone on behind the scenes it looks like tit for tat. It doesn't reflect well on him and whatever his issues with the CB, its ultimately the county, the team and the supporters that suffer. I think he'll look back and regret this.
Poor form for all the reasons outlined above if indeed this is the way things pan out. This sort of thing would seem to be a departure from the way he normally carries himself and if nothing else leaving Kildare to take on Monaghan at the same level would seem a poor enough choice, if I was a Kildare player or McGeeney I would be royally ticked off by this lack of committment unless there is more to the story than meets the eye.
Quote from: Armamike on September 02, 2009, 08:50:44 PM
What love could Paul Grimley have for Monaghan? What annoys me the most about this is that he strung along the clubs, the CB and the supporters over the past few weeks by not coming out and making it clear he didn't want the job. No one would have had a problem with that. Instead, clubs nominated him in good faith and before the dust settles and the interview process starts he's off to Monaghan. Whatever's gone on behind the scenes it looks like tit for tat. It doesn't reflect well on him and whatever his issues with the CB, its ultimately the county, the team and the supporters that suffer. I think he'll look back and regret this.
But what's emerging is that he DID want the job but only on his own terms. A 5 year term and no "interference" from the county board were mentioned as some of his demands on orchardcounty.
There are so many rumours flying about that's impossible to know. The players are bound to be livid if they feel Grimley's been unfairly treated. I hate seeing Armagh dragged through the gutter like this.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on September 02, 2009, 08:58:00 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 02, 2009, 08:50:44 PM
What love could Paul Grimley have for Monaghan? What annoys me the most about this is that he strung along the clubs, the CB and the supporters over the past few weeks by not coming out and making it clear he didn't want the job. No one would have had a problem with that. Instead, clubs nominated him in good faith and before the dust settles and the interview process starts he's off to Monaghan. Whatever's gone on behind the scenes it looks like tit for tat. It doesn't reflect well on him and whatever his issues with the CB, its ultimately the county, the team and the supporters that suffer. I think he'll look back and regret this.
But what's emerging is that he DID want the job but only on his own terms. A 5 year term and no "interference" from the county board were mentioned as some of his demands on orchardcounty.
There are so many rumours flying about that's impossible to know. The players are bound to be livid if they feel Grimley's been unfairly treated. I hate seeing Armagh dragged through the gutter like this.
I agree, I hope they have a plan B and that the new manager is in place sooner rather than later, we are beginning to look as inept as Down ffs.
TAM, if both parties really want something to happen differences would be ironed out. The CB have been getting a lot of flak - maybe it's not all one way.
Quote from: Armamike on September 02, 2009, 08:50:44 PM
What love could Paul Grimley have for Monaghan? What annoys me the most about this is that he strung along the clubs, the CB and the supporters over the past few weeks by not coming out and making it clear he didn't want the job. No one would have had a problem with that. Instead, clubs nominated him in good faith and before the dust settles and the interview process starts he's off to Monaghan. Whatever's gone on behind the scenes it looks like tit for tat. It doesn't reflect well on him and whatever his issues with the CB, its ultimately the county, the team and the supporters that suffer. I think he'll look back and regret this.
exactly and maybe others would have been willing to go forward or express interest if they knew Grimley was out of the picture. Who have we potentially missed?
Quote from: Armamike on September 02, 2009, 09:04:36 PM
TAM, if both parties really want something to happen differences would be ironed out. The CB have been getting a lot of flak - maybe it's not all one way.
My thoughts would go somewhere along these lines. If people want things to happen enough, then past quarrels and personal issues can be set aside. I doubt Paul is as innocent in all this as some of his supporters would have you believe.
there can be no question of him misleading clubs. he accepted no nominations from anyone. either way, its over and armagh football has to move on quickly or sink.
which door moving on takes us to i have no feckin clue.
I'd like to have a yarn with Paul McGrane and Gerard Davidson, my reading of Davidson in particular, being placed on the interviewing committee was that he was there to get Grimley onside as they are close friends. I would say privately they would feel let down by the way this has panned out. As stew says, Kildare and Geezer probably understood Paul's reason for leaving if it was to take the Armagh job dunno whether they would be just as happy for him to head off to Monaghan to be an assistant.
If there were difficulties as TAM has suggested why not take more time to see whether they could be ironed out? It's not as if either Monaghan or Armagh are running on a tight timescale to get these posts sorted. Hopefully there'll be some clarification from some of the people involved in tomorrow morning's Irish News.
Quote from: Seany on September 02, 2009, 01:41:42 PM
Please do not use the word 'Principle' when referring to this person any more.
Also refrain from blaming the CB. Nothing to do with them. They picked a five man panel consisting of an Armagh legend, Grimley's friend, an independent chairman and county chairman and sec. to select the new manager. ALl totally in order. Not their fault that the lure of cash before county was obviously big enough to make him head for Monaghan.
He's totally lost my respect. Remember - this is OUR county we're talking and what's best for the group of palyers that are there. He knew the job was his but just had to be a bit patient. Did he think he was on a higher plane than Neil Smith, or Justy, or the other people who the clubs have nominated for the job? Nominaitons only closed last Friday and the committee hadn't even met yet, and he wanted a rubber stamp job done!
Sorry - I'm sure he'll try and spin this one out like the one he told the Tribune that he heard he hadn't got the job by teletext when the chairman and sec. had actually gone to his house hours before to tell him face to face that he hadn't got it.
The more I think of this, the more sickened I get by what he has done to our county. And he hasn't done it to the County Board. he's done it to US!!! the ordinary gaels of the county who wanted him to get the job.
Maybe Big Joe was right all along!!
Don't be a f***ing d**k, the man is straight down the line. To say the chairman and sec called at the house? You must be brainwashed!! Could just picture Paddy Og calling down to his house all right!!
Quote from: ogshead on September 02, 2009, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: Seany on September 02, 2009, 01:41:42 PM
Please do not use the word 'Principle' when referring to this person any more.
Also refrain from blaming the CB. Nothing to do with them. They picked a five man panel consisting of an Armagh legend, Grimley's friend, an independent chairman and county chairman and sec. to select the new manager. ALl totally in order. Not their fault that the lure of cash before county was obviously big enough to make him head for Monaghan.
He's totally lost my respect. Remember - this is OUR county we're talking and what's best for the group of palyers that are there. He knew the job was his but just had to be a bit patient. Did he think he was on a higher plane than Neil Smith, or Justy, or the other people who the clubs have nominated for the job? Nominaitons only closed last Friday and the committee hadn't even met yet, and he wanted a rubber stamp job done!
Sorry - I'm sure he'll try and spin this one out like the one he told the Tribune that he heard he hadn't got the job by teletext when the chairman and sec. had actually gone to his house hours before to tell him face to face that he hadn't got it.
The more I think of this, the more sickened I get by what he has done to our county. And he hasn't done it to the County Board. he's done it to US!!! the ordinary gaels of the county who wanted him to get the job.
Maybe Big Joe was right all along!!
Don't be a f***ing d**k, the man is straight down the line. To say the chairman and sec called at the house? You must be brainwashed!! Could just picture Paddy Og calling down to his house all right!!
:D :D
Now that you mention it no!
I think some of you would be better off saying nothing else before you hear from the pricciples involved, I wont comment anymore until that happens either.
Actually saw some of the Armagh selection ctte in Canal Court today talking to a couple of double All Ireland winners from the 90s who have had recent county management experience.
Watch this space ;) ;)
Quote from: gorm agus bui on September 02, 2009, 10:25:03 PM
Actually saw some of the Armagh selection ctte in Canal Court today talking to a couple of double All Ireland winners from the 90s who have had recent county management experience.
Watch this space ;) ;)
Ah dear feck no!!!! :'( :'( :'( :'(
To be honest always thought he was a bit of a headcase after busting Lynch in the tunnel.
was it not normal in those days to punch the head of lynch whenever the chance arose
irish independent
'Past lessons' prompt Grimley's Farney move
By Colm Keys
Thursday September 03 2009
Paul Grimley has said "lessons from the past" convinced him to take up a surprise offer from Monaghan to become their assistant manager.
Grimley (pictured below) quit his role as No 2 to Kieran McGeeney in Kildare last week as speculation mounted that he would assume control in his native Armagh as the successor to Peter McDonnell.
However, in a dramatic and controversial twist yesterday, he was confirmed as assistant to Seamus McEnaney in Monaghan against all expectations, removing the only candidate Armagh had in mind for their vacancy.
Grimley's move, a significant coup for McEnaney and Monaghan in its own right, will be seen in some quarters as payback for the way he was treated two years ago when Joe Kernan stepped down.
He had been Kernan's assistant for five years before moving to Cavan as No 2 in 2007. When the Armagh post became vacant, he stepped down from that role to make himself available to his native county, but he was overlooked in favour of McDonnell.
Grimley insisted yesterday that he didn't quit Kildare with the intention of making himself available for the Armagh job.
He said he had no official contact with Armagh, but had sought a letter "giving guarantees on a couple of points" from the Armagh County Board on Monday.
"I wanted a few points ironed out. I had been nominated, but when that letter wasn't furnished on Tuesday, I decided to take up the offer from Seamus to become his assistant.
"The reality is I didn't want to leave myself vulnerable again to the fickle nature of a county board. There was no guarantee that I would be the next Armagh manager. I've been in this position before and the same thing wasn't going to happen to me again."
Grimley admitted he had contact from Armagh sponsor Hugh Morgan and former captain Paul McGrane, who is a member of the appointments committee. "I'd like to thank those two for their interest and the clubs who nominated me, but there was never anything formal between me and the county board.
"I accept that they couldn't give me a letter that safeguarded my interests; they had a process to go through. But their timetable didn't suit me and I had to do what was best for me. I was down that road before with them.
"Seamus McEnaney was working in a tight time-frame, so I had to decide."
Grimley said it was always likely that he would leave Kildare this year because of the travel involved.
"I told the players there was no guarantee that I would be back. It was taking three hours to get down there (Newbridge) in the traffic and I was travelling home late at night."
Grimley's detour to Monaghan means that three of the central figures in Armagh's 2002 All-Ireland success could be managing three different counties in 2010 if Kernan is appointed as Galway manager next week. That's not a good reflection on Armagh, who must now look elsewhere for a new manager.
Grimley believes that the Armagh County Board did not sufficiently support McDonnell after his departure in July.
"No matter what anyone says, Peter is a very good manager, but he left under a cloud and the county board did nothing about that, to my mind."
McEnaney is delighted with the capture of Grimley, declaring: "If I was going to continue, I knew I would need something different. The team needed something different and Paul Grimley will bring that difference."
Martin McElkennon will continue to fill the role of strength, conditioning and defensive coach.
- Colm Keys
anyone know what guarantees he was looking or is it all pure speculation?
Well one thing is for certain - he didn't want the Armagh job badly enough
Logan, why would someone take the job if the conditions they require to be successful are not met / provided by the county board
It makes perfect sense why he didnt take on the job
What's Grimley's actual managerial experience? It seems an awful lot of hoo-ha over a man who's gone from Armagh to Kildare to Monaghan as an assistant
Grimley has possibly looked at the current squad and thought there was little point in taking the reins, self interest has maybe influenced him as he did not want his reputation to suffer as this Armagh team are on the wane. This years minors may make them a more attractive proposition in a few years time but the cross-over is never guaranteed there either.
He said in the article that he had sought 'guarauntees on a couple of points'.... 'on Monday', then when the 'letter wasn't furnished on Tuesday',not a lot of time for manouvre there.I'll take some convincing this wasn't a two fingered gesture, and as an Armagh man I can't help but believe they were in some small way directed at me!
Quote from: bigpaul on September 03, 2009, 09:53:59 AM
He said in the article that he had sought 'guarauntees on a couple of points'.... 'on Monday', then when the 'letter wasn't furnished on Tuesday',not a lot of time for manouvre there.I'll take some convincing this wasn't a two fingered gesture, and as an Armagh man I can't help but believe they were in some small way directed at me!
are you paddy og in disguise ;D ;D ;D
Are you Paul Grimley?????
Sounds to me like he didn't want the job and was taking a dig or two at the county board.
Getting a letter from the county board that was to safeguard his interests was the reason he gave for not taking the job. Sounds like a lame excuse to me, given that he said he hadn't any contact from the county board.
In terms of winning something, I;d have thought he would have been better off with Kildare, but he might well be taking over from Banty in 2011.
No!! ;)
Dont know what to make of all this. if he was being messed about then fair enough but i dont like this line of the interview.
"But their timetable didn't suit me and I had to do what was best for me"
Going to Monaghan is also very strange.
Time to forget about this. the cb will perhaps need to go outside the county now.
yawn...
Get over it Paul. You were rubbish at interview the last time which is why you didn't get the job. This tiime you didn't want to do an interview which would be ufair on any other candidates in for it. HAve they not the same entitlement as you to become next manager? Should theynot be entitled to an interview too? Are you so bloody brilliant that you should be ushered in without even an interview?
And what has Hughie Morgan got to do with it? I don't remember him being picked onto the five man committee? WHy would you be talking to him? I wonder?
What has he to offer you that would make you become Armagh manager?
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on September 03, 2009, 09:35:21 AM
Logan, why would someone take the job if the conditions they require to be successful are not met / provided by the county board
It makes perfect sense why he didnt take on the job
I know what you're saying BUT if he did want it he'd have taken his time and not decided in a matter of hours
He was obviously talking to Monaghan all along too
I'll agree with the first part - but I don't agree it 'makes perfect sense'
Quote from: stephenite on September 03, 2009, 09:41:43 AM
What's Grimley's actual managerial experience? It seems an awful lot of hoo-ha over a man who's gone from Armagh to Kildare to Monaghan as an assistant
You might be right - who knows how good or bad he might have been as Number 1?
Quote from: Doogie Browser on September 03, 2009, 09:43:25 AM
Grimley has possibly looked at the current squad and thought there was little point in taking the reins, self interest has maybe influenced him as he did not want his reputation to suffer as this Armagh team are on the wane. This years minors may make them a more attractive proposition in a few years time but the cross-over is never guaranteed there either.
They've had a decent U21 team and good structures in place ... I don't think that would have been the reason.
He seems to rule himself out for the future too ...
Quote from: Seany on September 03, 2009, 11:11:59 AM
And what has Hughie Morgan got to do with it? I don't remember him being picked onto the five man committee? WHy would you be talking to him? I wonder?
What has he to offer you that would make you become Armagh manager?
You're joking right?
Quote from: davo on September 03, 2009, 10:42:04 AM
Dont know what to make of all this. if he was being messed about then fair enough but i dont like this line of the interview.
"But their timetable didn't suit me and I had to do what was best for me"
Going to Monaghan is also very strange.
Time to forget about this. the cb will perhaps need to go outside the county now.
What about Brian McAlinden?
Who else was nominated?
QuoteGrimley insisted yesterday that he didn't quit Kildare with the intention of making himself available for the Armagh job.
He said he had no official contact with Armagh, but had sought a letter "giving guarantees on a couple of points" from the Armagh County Board on Monday.
"I wanted a few points ironed out. I had been nominated, but when that letter wasn't furnished on Tuesday, I decided to take up the offer from Seamus to become his assistant.
"The reality is I didn't want to leave myself vulnerable again to the fickle nature of a county board. There was no guarantee that I would be the next Armagh manager. I've been in this position before and the same thing wasn't going to happen to me again."
Grimley admitted he had contact from Armagh sponsor Hugh Morgan and former captain Paul McGrane, who is a member of the appointments committee. "I'd like to thank those two for their interest and the clubs who nominated me, but there was never anything formal between me and the county board.
"I accept that they couldn't give me a letter that safeguarded my interests; they had a process to go through. But their timetable didn't suit me and I had to do what was best for me. I was down that road before with them.
"Seamus McEnaney was working in a tight time-frame, so I had to decide."
absolute bullshit and extremely disappointing.
He clearly never wanted the job.
He asked for a letter, when he had no formal contact but knew they couldn't give him one as they had a process to go through? That makes no sense unless he was looking for a reason not to take the job.
Very disappointed with him.
and what the f**k is Hughie Morgan stuck in it for?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 11:25:45 AM
and what the f**k is Hughie Morgan stuck in it for?
Is that not a bit harsh? I'd say If I was 'supporting' a team I'd be entitled to have some say ...
Quote from: Logan on September 03, 2009, 11:42:12 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 11:25:45 AM
and what the f**k is Hughie Morgan stuck in it for?
Is that not a bit harsh? I'd say If I was 'supporting' a team I'd be entitled to have some say ...
You think he, with f**k all football experience, should have a say in the management as he's putting up money? Are you serious?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 11:45:36 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 03, 2009, 11:42:12 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 11:25:45 AM
and what the f**k is Hughie Morgan stuck in it for?
Is that not a bit harsh? I'd say If I was 'supporting' a team I'd be entitled to have some say ...
You think he, with f**k all football experience, should have a say in the management as he's putting up money? Are you serious?
He is putting up a lot of money and wants to ensure that it is spent properly ( in his eyes ). I can't see him wanting any input other than that.
Quote from: orangeman on September 03, 2009, 11:54:28 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 11:45:36 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 03, 2009, 11:42:12 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 11:25:45 AM
and what the f**k is Hughie Morgan stuck in it for?
Is that not a bit harsh? I'd say If I was 'supporting' a team I'd be entitled to have some say ...
You think he, with f**k all football experience, should have a say in the management as he's putting up money? Are you serious?
He is putting up a lot of money and wants to ensure that it is spent properly ( in his eyes ). I can't see him wanting any input other than that.
That'd be my thinking - can't bite the hand that feeds you ...
He should have nothing to do with it, what other county sponsors get involved in the management selection of the counties they are sponsoring?
His reported involvment the last time didnt help matters.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
He should have nothing to do with it, what other county sponsors get involved in the management selection of the counties they are sponsoring?
You think Aer Arann aren't involved in Joes negotioations?
Quote from: Logan on September 03, 2009, 12:11:32 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
He should have nothing to do with it, what other county sponsors get involved in the management selection of the counties they are sponsoring?
You think Aer Arann aren't involved in Joes negotioations?
Not to the extent Morgan is, no.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
He should have nothing to do with it, what other county sponsors get involved in the management selection of the counties they are sponsoring?
His reported involvment the last time didnt help matters.
Quite a few funny enough especially if the sponsor is an individual. You don't honestly think Ballymore had no input into Micko's appointment. If thye are weighinh out big money for managers they are entitled to ask who are the contenders. There should be a limit to their input though. And it shouldn't extend to the selection of the mangager. But they are quite entitled to give an opinion on the shortlist in my view if they are weighing out the cash.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 03, 2009, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
He should have nothing to do with it, what other county sponsors get involved in the management selection of the counties they are sponsoring?
His reported involvment the last time didnt help matters.
Quite a few funny enough especially if the sponsor is an individual. You don't honestly think Ballymore had no input into Micko's appointment. If thye are weighinh out big money for managers they are entitled to ask who are the contenders. There should be a limit to their input though. And it shouldn't extend to the selection of the mangager. But they are quite entitled to give an opinion on the shortlist in my view if they are weighing out the cash.
They're entitled to ask I agree but not entitled to a say.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 03, 2009, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
He should have nothing to do with it, what other county sponsors get involved in the management selection of the counties they are sponsoring?
His reported involvment the last time didnt help matters.
Quite a few funny enough especially if the sponsor is an individual. You don't honestly think Ballymore had no input into Micko's appointment. If thye are weighinh out big money for managers they are entitled to ask who are the contenders. There should be a limit to their input though. And it shouldn't extend to the selection of the mangager. But they are quite entitled to give an opinion on the shortlist in my view if they are weighing out the cash.
Agree
He who pays the Piper calls the tune
Cant explain it, but am genuinely angry for decent Armagh men there. Yer man Grimley is a very embittered man to this day about the way he was handled 2 years ago - surely the only way of solving the problem was to get inside and manage the situation himself. I think it shows he was always a number two and he'll never be fit for a number 1 position. I pity Mc Donnell who suffered because this fella didnt get the job first time round. If I was Armagh people Id be going cap in hand to Mc Alinden and Mc Nulty as a team - men who care about their county more than these so called mercenaries.
dont think grimley is coming out of this too well, he met Mc Grane and morgan and give his terms/ ultimatum with what seems like a very tight timetable, they didnt get back to him quickly enough and he goes to Monaghan, it seems to me he wasnt that interested in the first place or he would have waited at least until the committee met
On the face of it, it looks like he's given the CB a few ultimatums and put them in a very difficult position in terms of written guarantees and deadlines. Plus, he didn't give them any time to mull these over and respond. It smacks of him wanting to call the shots - my way or no way. That's all very well and reinforces the hard man image, but county boards and managers have to work together for the good of the county in a spirit of cooperation and goodwill. Can't be an unequal partnership. Get the feeling that nothing was ever going to be enough for Paul and he never really wanted the job this time around or wanted it on his own very exact terms. You have to try and work with the people in charge. It's probably for the best that he's not offered it - God knows how much wrangling would have taken place over the coming months and years. Let him go to Monaghan if that's what he really wants.
Why doesn't he come out and tell us what the terms and conditions were that he needed in eriting before he "accepted" the job.
Shows a lack of respect for the other candidates IMO.
What other candidates?
Has anybody publicly came out and said they were interested in the job?
candidates who were nominated by clubs will be made public after the committee meets
As someone who refuses to buy into the snowballing Grimley myth cant say I'm overly bothered. Think he's also played his hand very badly and hasn't endeared himself to many, undoubtedly the County Board will be made to look the bad guy.
I suspect he'll be sniffing about in a year or two, when a few more of our younger fellas are fully blooded into the team.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 03, 2009, 05:51:16 PM
I suspect he'll be sniffing about in a year or two, when a few more of our younger fellas are fully blooded into the team.
Certainly what it seems like. The whole thing feels like he knows he might ever only get one bite at the job but he's decided that he couldn't be bothered with it at this stage. Comment like,
'I had to do what was best for me', don't exactly detract from this feeling.
The other thing that is disappointing is his attempt to paint the situation so that it seems that it is the same as two years ago with comment like,
'I've been in this position before and the same thing wasn't going to happen to me again'. Two years ago he may have been shafted but this time round everything possible was bent into place to suit him, from the make up of the selection panel to the selection process itself. He's fooling no one trying to lay the blame at the county board's door this time - bottom line is the job was his and he turned it down.
I'd never want to see him even talked about for the position again after this.
Same here.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 06:52:10 PM
I'd never want to see him even talked about for the position again after this.
I think he will regret this decision at some point in the future and I genuinely thought he was smarter than this, to be this bitter over a decision that didnt go his way a few years ago and not have the sense to let bygones be bygones and move on is ridiculous to me. He could have been the Senior Manager of the county he loves and what does he do, takes another back seat with someone else at the helm and to make matters worse he goes to a provincial rival, disaster.
I wanted him as our Manager, I can honestly say that as of now I would never want him near another Armagh team in any way, shape nor form, that said maybe when the dust settles after a year or two if it came up again and he applied I might want him as our leader, maybe.
I had all the faith in the world in Grimley and feel kicked in the ballix by him, he has made a mockery of the county with his theatrics and his bitterness, he needs to have a long hard look at himself before he blames anyone other than himself!
I can understand that he's bitter and all the rest, anyone would be, I'd understand it if he told Armagh CB when the process started to f**k off he wouldnt take the job after what they done on him, fair enough.
It's the fact that he has strung along the clubs, his supporters, the players, even had the county board running around ensure he'd be happy with his mate on the selection committee etc and then kicked us all in the balls. I dont know the man but judging by what others said about him being a sound fella and all I'm very surprised and disappointed by his actions.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 07:21:43 PM
I can understand that he's bitter and all the rest, anyone would be, I'd understand it if he told Armagh CB when the process started to f**k off he wouldnt take the job after what they done on him, fair enough.
It's the fact that he has strung along the clubs, his supporters, the players, even had the county board running around ensure he'd be happy with his mate on the selection committee etc and then kicked us all in the balls. I dont know the man but judging by what others said about him being a sound fella and all I'm very surprised and disappointed by his actions.
If he was this bitter why would he even approach the board at all about this position, why would he not just say feck aff, I will never take that job whilst certain board members are in place? He strung along a lot of people who supported him, clubs who supported him and for what, to embarass the CB?
I thi nk the bitterness has to go at some point, the brothers Grim (ley) ;D are thicker than champ if they feel like they have been crossed but ffs let it go Paul, the damage is done, move on and forget about the CB.
By the way, I hope Monaghan stink next year.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on September 03, 2009, 09:43:25 AM
Grimley has possibly looked at the current squad and thought there was little point in taking the reins, self interest has maybe influenced him as he did not want his reputation to suffer as this Armagh team are on the wane. This years minors may make them a more attractive proposition in a few years time but the cross-over is never guaranteed there either.
What reputation. ?
hope monaghan get armagh in next years championship :o
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:12:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 06:52:10 PM
I'd never want to see him even talked about for the position again after this.
I think he will regret this decision at some point in the future and I genuinely thought he was smarter than this, to be this bitter over a decision that didnt go his way a few years ago and not have the sense to let bygones be bygones and move on is ridiculous to me. He could have been the Senior Manager of the county he loves and what does he do, takes another back seat with someone else at the helm and to make matters worse he goes to a provincial rival, disaster.
I wanted him as our Manager, I can honestly say that as of now I would never want him near another Armagh team in any way, shape nor form, that said maybe when the dust settles after a year or two if it came up again and he applied I might want him as our leader, maybe.
I had all the faith in the world in Grimley and feel kicked in the ballix by him, he has made a mockery of the county with his theatrics and his bitterness, he needs to have a long hard look at himself before he blames anyone other than himself!
100% agree, I said earlier in the thread that I wouldn't take a swipe at him until I had more information, but the longer this goes on the worse it looks for Grimley. By sticking two fingers up at the CB, he has let down an awful lot of people.
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:37:29 PM
By the way, I hope Monaghan stink next year.
Hardly new for an Armagh man! :D
Boys, does anyone really know what happened here?
1. What is Grimley's original gripe with the Armagh set-up (from 2-3 years ago)?
2. What would he have wanted in place this year in order to take the job?
3. Who's the big bad wolf on the CB?
Quote from: Schkite on September 03, 2009, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:37:29 PM
By the way, I hope Monaghan stink next year.
Hardly new for an Armagh man! :D
When or where I state that my stance on how Monaghan next year was new?
I never usually take them under my notice, it is not as if they are Down now is it?
Quote from: ONeill on September 03, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
Boys, does anyone really know what happened here?
1. What is Grimley's original gripe with the Armagh set-up (from 2-3 years ago)?
2. What would he have wanted in place this year in order to take the job?
3. Who's the big bad wolf on the CB?
1 - take too long to tell you
2 - guarantees of non interference from co board and interfering non county board elements with guaranteed length of tenure
3 - there's 3.
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 09:41:06 PM
Quote from: Schkite on September 03, 2009, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:37:29 PM
By the way, I hope Monaghan stink next year.
Hardly new for an Armagh man! :D
When or where I state that my stance on how Monaghan next year was new?
I never usually take them under my notice, it is not as if they are Down now is it?
Apologies for trying to have a bit of banter. I know many Armagh men who would want to see Monaghan lose whenever they take the field due to the local rivalry, same as alot of counties would feel about their neighbour. Nothing to do with how successful they are or not. Also I was referring to Armagh fans in general, like lads I know near the border, wasn't talking about you specifically FFS.
Quote from: orangeman on September 03, 2009, 04:19:08 PM
Why doesn't he come out and tell us what the terms and conditions were that he needed in eriting before he "accepted" the job.
Shows a lack of respect for the other candidates IMO.
Never mind a lack of respect for Armagh.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on September 03, 2009, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on September 03, 2009, 04:19:08 PM
Why doesn't he come out and tell us what the terms and conditions were that he needed in eriting before he "accepted" the job.
Shows a lack of respect for the other candidates IMO.
Never mind a lack of respect for Armagh.
Nail hit on head, I feel let down by this, badly let down and hope he fails miserably.
Quote from: Schkite on September 03, 2009, 10:27:54 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 09:41:06 PM
Quote from: Schkite on September 03, 2009, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:37:29 PM
By the way, I hope Monaghan stink next year.
Hardly new for an Armagh man! :D
When or where I state that my stance on how Monaghan next year was new?
I never usually take them under my notice, it is not as if they are Down now is it?
Apologies for trying to have a bit of banter. I know many Armagh men who would want to see Monaghan lose whenever they take the field due to the local rivalry, same as alot of counties would feel about their neighbour. Nothing to do with how successful they are or not. Also I was referring to Armagh fans in general, like lads I know near the border, wasn't talking about you specifically FFS.
I have relatives in Blayney and up the mountainy road in Keady - up till this year I always liked to see them do well :P
Ah lads it was only a passing comment like, in reference to lads I know who I'd have good banter with around Monaghan-Armagh games, didn't think it would cause any debate! I'll try not to tar ye all with the same brush so ardmhachaabu! ;)
Quote from: Schkite on September 03, 2009, 10:49:37 PM
Ah lads it was only a passing comment like, in reference to lads I know who I'd have good banter with around Monaghan-Armagh games, didn't think it would cause any debate! I'll try not to tar ye all with the same brush so ardmhachaabu! ;)
:D
Quote from: No way ref on September 03, 2009, 08:00:06 PM
hope monaghan get armagh in next years championship :o
No doubt it will be a first round draw when the balls are randomly selected from the drum!
At the end of the day we can only speculate on what has happened over the past few months since POD stepped down. The county board didnt do enough to get the right man on board, the sad fact is that there is people being paid to do a job on the board and there incompetence has been clearly evident in the fiasco that happended a few years back and also this week. Anybody who has been coached or managed by PG knows that he is the right man for the job but he has to be given the right tools (condition) to be successful. It appears that the conditions he required could not be guaranteed by the county board and therefore why would he or why would anyone go into role / job with one hand tied behind his back.
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on September 04, 2009, 09:00:43 AM
At the end of the day we can only speculate on what has happened over the past few months since POD stepped down. The county board didnt do enough to get the right man on board, the sad fact is that there is people being paid to do a job on the board and there incompetence has been clearly evident in the fiasco that happended a few years back and also this week. Anybody who has been coached or managed by PG knows that he is the right man for the job but he has to be given the right tools (condition) to be successful. It appears that the conditions he required could not be guaranteed by the county board and therefore why would he or why would anyone go into role / job with one hand tied behind his back.
I don't know the in's and out's - but that seems a little unfair
1. What more could they do?
2. If the conditions are not reasonable and fair to all canditates why should they?
3. You can't be unfair to (a) the people of Armagh (b) the other canditates
There was a process and he pulled out for reasons that were apparently agreed initially and then within hours had changed team?
While Armagh CB I'm sure is like every other one in the country it appears that ALOT was done to get the right man on board, but you'd have to ask if he was ever really serious about it.
brendan crossan in the irish news today tells it how it is, he like most of us knew the job was grimleys to turn down, he feels armagh have better long term prospects than oue farney friends,the artifical deadline was a red herring and like most of us he feels grimley has made the wrong choice,
i say good luck to grimley wherever he goes in the future its his perogative but this time he turned down armagh not vice versa
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 09:12:04 AM
brendan crossan in the irish news today tells it how it is
Monaghan's sideline dream team will not guarantee success on the pitch The Boot Room
By Brendan Crossan
04/09/09
YOU take a week off and what happens? All hell breaks loose. There seemed to be a different breaking GAA news story each morning that made me forget – momentarily – about my dog-rough chest infection last week.
It was supposed to be a quiet time of the season. A time for reflection and quiet repose for Ulster teams. A time when managers and county officers turn off their mobile phones and jet off to sunnier climes.
Not this year. Nope. We had Ross Carr threatening legal action against the county board. We had Paddy Tally (remember the trainer who Ross actually appointed?) declaring an interest in the job. We had Joe Kernan saddling up his horse and peering towards the west. We had Liam Bradley casting a gentle spanner in the works, stating that it wasn't a foregone conclusion he would remain as Antrim manager.
We had 'Banty' indulging in one of the longest-ever will-he-won't-he scenarios over his position as Monaghan manager. (Now we know why.)
We saw Paul Grimley resign as Kildare assistant manager. We also sensed during the week that the much-maligned Armagh County Board was finally doing the right thing.
It seemed a simple enough equation: Grimley is sounded out by a couple of influential Orchard figures – Hugh Morgan and Paul McGrane. Grimley resigns his Lilywhites position. The Armagh County Board hamstrings itself again by 'due process' – but not to the same extent as two years ago. There would be no last-minute hitches however. Things are preordained. Grimley's a shoo-in.
Early next week, all media outlets were due to receive a short press release via email inviting them to the Athletic Grounds some evening to unwrap the worst-kept secret in Armagh football.
It would be Paul Grimley's long-awaited graduation ceremony – the man who would heal the bitter divisions in the county and return Armagh to its former glory.
Yep. The script was written. For whatever reason(s), though, Grimley ignored the last few signposts on the road back from Kildare and ended up in Monaghan.
Grimley's fate was supposed to be something entirely different. His name was supposed to be etched in the annals of Armagh football from 2010 to roughly 2015. That was supposed to be his time. The man who came back to his
spiritual home and made a difference.
Amid all the uncertainty of the last seven days, this columnist would have bet -– and lost – this month's mortgage repayment on Grimley becoming Armagh's new senior football manager.
In fairness to the affable Pearse Og clubman, he didn't duck the issue over why he chose
Monaghan over Armagh. He gave articulate accounts of his decision to almost every daily newspaper yesterday. I've read each of them – and still I can't understand Grimley's decision.
Of course, everyone could indulge in a semantic debate and argue that Grimley was never actually offered the Armagh post and that Seamus McEnaney's deadline dictated the pace of events.
Let's be clear on one thing: Grimley's name carries him a fair distance in the game, which means he was in a position to call the shots. He could have dictated to McEnaney and given the Monaghan manager a deadline of his own. And while he might have been suspicious of the much-criticised 'interview process' in the county, the dogs on the street knew the Armagh job was Grimley's to decline this time.
County boards are notoriously unwieldy at doing business, but business most certainly would have been concluded in Grimley's favour.
The problem was there was an artificial deadline in place. After all, this year's All-Ireland final hasn't even been played yet, so what was the big panic? In real terms, another couple of weeks wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.
Still, the net result is that Banty's got his man and he must feel like the cat that got the cream. There is no doubting that Grimley is a brilliant motivator and a superb football coach. And lest we forget Marty McElkennon's significant skills.
In theory, Banty has assembled one of the best managerial teams in the country. You just hope that too many cooks don't spoil the Farney broth.
Moreover, sometimes media commentators are inclined to exaggerate the role of trainers and coaches. It's players that make things happen.
McEnaney, McElkennon and Grimley are three of the finest facilitators in the GAA – but, with the greatest respect, that's all they are.
It's not like McEnaney has dipped into some imaginary transfer market and unearthed a clone of Tommy Freeman. What he's got is the best number two in the business.
Monaghan have probably reached their ceiling in terms of Championship performances. There may be one last rage against the dying light in 2010, but not even an Ulster title would sate their appetite.
Like all provincial silverware these days, the Anglo-Celt's market value continues to plummet.
For the top eight sides in the country, the Sam Maguire is the only piece of silverware worth winning - and Monaghan remain three or four players short of achieving that goal. It doesn't
matter what inspirational figures you have on your sidelines. You need the players.
Undoubtedly, there is more potential in Kildare than in Monaghan to do the unthinkable next summer but, understandably, Grimley no longer fancies the arduous Naas Road trek several days a week.
There is more potential in Armagh than in Monaghan too.
Forget, too, about the Orchard county's Championship exit to Monaghan earlier this summer.
Armagh are much better than that abysmal performance suggests.
Furthermore, there is a conveyor belt of talent coming through in Armagh at minor and U21 level. The same can't be said of Monaghan. Armagh remains one of the most exciting managerial projects in the country. A fertile landscape exists there.
Paul Grimley was the people's and the players' choice to become Armagh's new senior football manager. He appeared primed for the number one position in his native county.
History will decide whether Grimley's decision was the correct one, but at the moment it's hard not to feel there was a wrong turn on the road taken by the big Armagh city man.
Also on today's Irish News, The Monaghan slant:
Grimley's capture is huge boost says Marty Gaelic Games
By Brendan Crossan
04/09/09
MONAGHAN trainer Marty McElkennon believes the addition of Paul Grimley to the Farney backroom team could "tip the scales in our favour" as the county searches for silverware next season.
Over the last number of weeks, both manager Seamus McEnaney and McElkennon discussed the possibility of Grimley joining the Monaghan management set-up in their bid to win an Ulster or All-Ireland title in 2010.
McEnaney and McElkennon have formed a successful coaching partnership in the Farney county over the last three years, reaching a provincial final and an All-Ireland quarter-final in 2007, but both men feel they needed an extra dimension to make further progress.
"If one more man can tip the scales for us then I hope it's Paul Grimley," said McElkennon.
"I think he's the right man for Monaghan and hope he can improve the team. Both Seamus and myself realise that we need to take this thing a stage further.
"We don't have the playing resources of Tyrone or Armagh, where they can bring in six or seven new players in every year, so maybe the best way for Monaghan to go about things is to improve our backroom set-up."
Gerry Connolly makes way for Grimley, while trusted selector Adrian Trappe remains on board.
Since his arrival three years ago, McElkennon has pinpointed shortcomings in the Monaghan attack that has seen the team struggle in big Championship games.
"Nobody has come up with all the answers yet, but I hope bringing Paul in will help our attacking strategy," added McElkennon.
"I hope to learn off someone like him, who comes highly rated because we need to improve."
Alongside Kieran McGeeney, Grimley helped transform Kildare into one of the most prolific scoring units in 2009, but, after two seasons in Leinster, the Pearse Og man decided to quit his Lilywhites post, citing the distance to travel.
Earlier this week, Grimley sprung a major surprise by choosing Monaghan over his native Armagh.
McElkennon will remain in charge of the team's defensive strategy as well as the strength and conditioning of the Monaghan players.
The Cookstown man added that the recruitment of Grimley eases the burden of responsibility currently on his shoulders.
"I'm back teaching part-time and am also a part-time personal fitness instructor," explained McElkennon.
"I would have been taking the players for weight training on Mondays and Wednesdays and then training them on Tuesdays and Fridays.
"That was very taxing, so the workload will be more evenly spread, which will benefit the team."
Like McEnaney, McElkennon considered his position after Monaghan were knocked out of the All-Ireland Qualifiers by Derry in July.
He was sounded out by another Ulster county and a Leinster county, but decided to stick with Monaghan for at least another year.
"I think it would be unfair to name the counties that had approached me," he said.
"I never followed them up. I've enjoyed my three years with Monaghan and working with a very committed bunch of players.
"I gave serious thought to leaving and asked myself how much more I could offer the team after three years with them, but Paul's arrival has given everybody extra enthusiasm to push on next season."
Its quite obvious that no one here has a clue about what went on and why Paul now stands as Monaghan No.2. Until any of you are aware of the facts and events that led to his decision none of you are in a position to pass judgement on him!
For those of you who claim to be true Armagh men / supporters im sure your posts have consoled Paul in realising that he has made the right choice because some of your posts have been that vindictive and he will now see what would have been on his doorstep had he made one single mistake.
I know that Paul was taking the job all he wanted was some confirmation from CB that they acknowledged his appointment (since he had no contact with them watsoever) to reduce the risk of being shafted again but they cudnt produce this. All those closely involved in the weeks of negotiations were well aware that Paul had another offer but the CB didnt believe this and refused to produce a letter of confirmation in time.
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
Its quite obvious that no one here has a clue about what went on and why Paul now stands as Monaghan No.2. Until any of you are aware of the facts and events that led to his decision none of you are in a position to pass judgement on him!
For those of you who claim to be true Armagh men / supporters im sure your posts have consoled Paul in realising that he has made the right choice because some of your posts have been that vindictive and he will now see what would have been on his doorstep had he made one single mistake.
I know that Paul was taking the job all he wanted was some confirmation from CB that they acknowledged his appointment (since he had no contact with them watsoever) to reduce the risk of being shafted again but they cudnt produce this. All those closely involved in the weeks of negotiations were well aware that Paul had another offer but the CB didnt believe this and refused to produce a letter of confirmation in time.
What? PG wanted a letter from the county board confirming his appointment on Tuesday morning when nominations had closed the previous Friday?
What's this about conditionss, 5 or 6 conditions, since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what those conditions were?
Matt, what do you mean by they couldn't produce this letter 'in time'. This alludes back to the mysterious deadline that Grimley seems to have imposed on proceedings. What difference would a couple of days or even weeks have made? If he wanted the job enough he could've stuck it out.
I also don't believe for a second that he feared he'd be shafted this time round. If he was in for the job and the CB gave it to someone else there would have been a mutiny in the county. Grimley had all the aces this time round but he chose not to play them.
My guess is that he realises he'll only have one shot with Armagh and whats the hurry to take them now. Why not wait for a few years down the line when playing, and perhaps financial, resources are in a better state. I'd say Paul felt that he didn't want to play the two Brians' role this time round.
Just a question;
He's not manager (Banty is)
He't not the trainer (McInkennon is)
So what the hell is his role?
Quote from: Seany on September 04, 2009, 11:15:10 AM
Just a question;
He's not manager (Banty is)
He't not the trainer (McInkennon is)
So what the hell is his role?
'Forwards coach' apparently
Quote from: Seany on September 04, 2009, 11:15:10 AM
Just a question;
He's not manager (Banty is)
He't not the trainer (McInkennon is)
So what the hell is his role?
Oh I wouldn't agree there. Its more a question of what is Mc Ilkennon's role now- looks to me to be completely diluted with the new setup.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 11:11:50 AM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
Its quite obvious that no one here has a clue about what went on and why Paul now stands as Monaghan No.2. Until any of you are aware of the facts and events that led to his decision none of you are in a position to pass judgement on him!
For those of you who claim to be true Armagh men / supporters im sure your posts have consoled Paul in realising that he has made the right choice because some of your posts have been that vindictive and he will now see what would have been on his doorstep had he made one single mistake.
I know that Paul was taking the job all he wanted was some confirmation from CB that they acknowledged his appointment (since he had no contact with them watsoever) to reduce the risk of being shafted again but they cudnt produce this. All those closely involved in the weeks of negotiations were well aware that Paul had another offer but the CB didnt believe this and refused to produce a letter of confirmation in time.
What? PG wanted a letter from the county board confirming his appointment on Tuesday morning when nominations had closed the previous Friday?
What's this about conditionss, 5 or 6 conditions, since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what those conditions were?
Weeks of meetings had taken place without any direct contact with the county board and all he wanted was a simply worded letter that they acknowledged his appointment. Nominations had closed but these meetings had been going on for weeks to arrange his appointment, he had organised his backroom staff and everthing!
There were no 5 r 6 conditions I dont no were that has come from!
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 11:11:50 AM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
Its quite obvious that no one here has a clue about what went on and why Paul now stands as Monaghan No.2. Until any of you are aware of the facts and events that led to his decision none of you are in a position to pass judgement on him!
For those of you who claim to be true Armagh men / supporters im sure your posts have consoled Paul in realising that he has made the right choice because some of your posts have been that vindictive and he will now see what would have been on his doorstep had he made one single mistake.
I know that Paul was taking the job all he wanted was some confirmation from CB that they acknowledged his appointment (since he had no contact with them watsoever) to reduce the risk of being shafted again but they cudnt produce this. All those closely involved in the weeks of negotiations were well aware that Paul had another offer but the CB didnt believe this and refused to produce a letter of confirmation in time.
What? PG wanted a letter from the county board confirming his appointment on Tuesday morning when nominations had closed the previous Friday?
What's this about conditionss, 5 or 6 conditions, since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what those conditions were?
Weeks of meetings had taken place without any direct contact with the county board and all he wanted was a simply worded letter that they acknowledged his appointment. Nominations had closed but these meetings had been going on for weeks to arrange his appointment, he had organised his backroom staff and everthing!
There were no 5 r 6 conditions I dont no were that has come from!
fact is the committee had to ratify his appointment which was a foregone conclusion, it only met for the first time on Thursday night, after in your words "weeks of meetings" a further 3 days doesnt seem a long time.Paul mc grane is as straight as a die so cant understand grimleys worries about being shafted, as i said already good luck to him in the future wherever he goes but he made his choice and we have to look for an alternative
i would bring back mc alinden
Quote from: AFS on September 04, 2009, 11:13:39 AM
Matt, what do you mean by they couldn't produce this letter 'in time'. This alludes back to the mysterious deadline that Grimley seems to have imposed on proceedings. What difference would a couple of days or even weeks have made? If he wanted the job enough he could've stuck it out.
I also don't believe for a second that he feared he'd be shafted this time round. If he was in for the job and the CB gave it to someone else there would have been a mutiny in the county. Grimley had all the aces this time round but he chose not to play them.
My guess is that he realises he'll only have one shot with Armagh and whats the hurry to take them now. Why not wait for a few years down the line when playing, and perhaps financial, resources are in a better state. I'd say Paul felt that he didn't want to play the two Brians' role this time round.
These meetings had been going on for weeks when do you think would have been a suitable time to close proceedings? Why carry on for another few days or weeks when everything had been sorted?
Paul has already said that his name will never again be connected with the Armagh job so why do you think his motive is to wait another few years?
Had everything been sorted? Why the grand ultimatum then? I don't know what the CB were up to, maybe they felt that they had to go through with some sort of token interview process after asking clubs to put people forward. But surely Paul knew they couldn't shaft him again, thats the crux of it for me. With the overwhelming support he had within the county and the lack of any obvious alternative he surely knew there was no way anyone was getting the job ahead of him.
I don't know why he has come out with the 'never again with Armagh' thing, but I find it hard to believe that if the job comes up again within the next few years he won't at least give it some consideration.
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 11:11:50 AM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
Its quite obvious that no one here has a clue about what went on and why Paul now stands as Monaghan No.2. Until any of you are aware of the facts and events that led to his decision none of you are in a position to pass judgement on him!
For those of you who claim to be true Armagh men / supporters im sure your posts have consoled Paul in realising that he has made the right choice because some of your posts have been that vindictive and he will now see what would have been on his doorstep had he made one single mistake.
I know that Paul was taking the job all he wanted was some confirmation from CB that they acknowledged his appointment (since he had no contact with them watsoever) to reduce the risk of being shafted again but they cudnt produce this. All those closely involved in the weeks of negotiations were well aware that Paul had another offer but the CB didnt believe this and refused to produce a letter of confirmation in time.
What? PG wanted a letter from the county board confirming his appointment on Tuesday morning when nominations had closed the previous Friday?
What's this about conditionss, 5 or 6 conditions, since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what those conditions were?
Weeks of meetings had taken place without any direct contact with the county board and all he wanted was a simply worded letter that they acknowledged his appointment. Nominations had closed but these meetings had been going on for weeks to arrange his appointment, he had organised his backroom staff and everthing!
There were no 5 r 6 conditions I dont no were that has come from!
Ok but why couldnt he wait? It doesnt matter how many meetings where taking place for weeks the county board had a process to follow (one that was put in place to ensure fair play after the last time I believe) and nominations had only closed the Friday. PG wanted a letter by Tuesday morning confirming his appointment? I'm no fan of the county board but I think that's a very unfair timescale. I understand Monaghan had made an offer and maybe imposed a deadline but what was their rush? I think PG could have stretched their deadline.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 12:04:06 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 11:11:50 AM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
Its quite obvious that no one here has a clue about what went on and why Paul now stands as Monaghan No.2. Until any of you are aware of the facts and events that led to his decision none of you are in a position to pass judgement on him!
For those of you who claim to be true Armagh men / supporters im sure your posts have consoled Paul in realising that he has made the right choice because some of your posts have been that vindictive and he will now see what would have been on his doorstep had he made one single mistake.
I know that Paul was taking the job all he wanted was some confirmation from CB that they acknowledged his appointment (since he had no contact with them watsoever) to reduce the risk of being shafted again but they cudnt produce this. All those closely involved in the weeks of negotiations were well aware that Paul had another offer but the CB didnt believe this and refused to produce a letter of confirmation in time.
What? PG wanted a letter from the county board confirming his appointment on Tuesday morning when nominations had closed the previous Friday?
What's this about conditionss, 5 or 6 conditions, since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what those conditions were?
Weeks of meetings had taken place without any direct contact with the county board and all he wanted was a simply worded letter that they acknowledged his appointment. Nominations had closed but these meetings had been going on for weeks to arrange his appointment, he had organised his backroom staff and everthing!
There were no 5 r 6 conditions I dont no were that has come from!
Ok but why couldnt he wait? It doesnt matter how many meetings where taking place for weeks the county board had a process to follow (one that was put in place to ensure fair play after the last time I believe) and nominations had only closed the Friday. PG wanted a letter by Tuesday morning confirming his appointment? I'm no fan of the county board but I think that's a very unfair timescale. I understand Monaghan had made an offer and maybe imposed a deadline but what was their rush? I think PG could have stretched their deadline.
But obviously CB wasn't going to go through this process if they knew Paul was having these meetings and would have been aware of there progress. The request for a letter (& it was a request not a demand) was made on Sunday for Tuesday lunchtime.
I know were you coming from regarding deadlines & I dont no what Monaghans rush was but Paul had already stretched their deadline a few days.
The fact is that this frosty relationship between Paul and CB goes back to when he was a player himself it hasn't just come about from 2007 so he's well used to their dislike of him so can you blame him for his request for confirmation? Would you not make a similar request if you were in the position yourself?
QuoteBut obviously CB wasn't going to go through this process if they knew Paul was having these meetings and would have been aware of there progress.
I'm not sure of the process laid down but it would have been unfair on the other candidates to appoint PG manager 5 minutes after nominations closed. Why the CB bothered with the process laid down from the beginning is another argument but there was one and it had to be followed.
Quote
The fact is that this frosty relationship between Paul and CB goes back to when he was a player himself it hasn't just come about from 2007 so he's well used to their dislike of him so can you blame him for his request for confirmation? Would you not make a similar request if you were in the position yourself?
Yes anyone would want confirmation of appointment, even if they had the best relationship with the CB, problem is PG give them an extremely tight timescale and that is the problem, it was unfair to give them that timescale.
I see in a paper yesterday he said he wanted one or two issues ironed out or confirmed in that letter also, what were those issues? Is it true he was after a 5 year term with no interference from the CB?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 12:35:11 PM
QuoteBut obviously CB wasn't going to go through this process if they knew Paul was having these meetings and would have been aware of there progress.
I'm not sure of the process laid down but it would have been unfair on the other candidates to appoint PG manager 5 minutes after nominations closed. Why the CB bothered with the process laid down from the beginning is another argument but there was one and it had to be followed.
Quote
The fact is that this frosty relationship between Paul and CB goes back to when he was a player himself it hasn't just come about from 2007 so he's well used to their dislike of him so can you blame him for his request for confirmation? Would you not make a similar request if you were in the position yourself?
Yes anyone would want confirmation of appointment, even if they had the best relationship with the CB, problem is PG give them an extremely tight timescale and that is the problem, it was unfair to give them that timescale.
I see in a paper yesterday he said he wanted one or two issues ironed out or confirmed in that letter also, what were those issues? Is it true he was after a 5 year term with no interference from the CB?
An extremely tight timescale to write a letter? How long does it take to write a letter? What would you suggest was an appropriate timescale to write a letter?
To be honest with you a dont know what the other issues were but I do know he had very big plans for Armagh!
Its not just sitting down to write a letter is it.
It's confirming an appointment.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 12:42:39 PM
Its not just sitting down to write a letter is it.
It's confirming an appointment.
Again how is this difficult or time consuming? They would have been fully aware of the progress being made regarding the appointment.
But that would've meant ditching the interview process before it had even begun and pissing off the people that had let their names go forward and the clubs that had forwarded them.
Surely they had to go through with some sort of process, at least to acknowledge the other men that had thrown their hats into the ring.
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
Banty's 2 week deadline was between himself and the Monaghan CB.
The CB gave him full permission to pursue Grimley
It is Banty's prerogative to fix his own deadline just as it is his matter to firmly stick to the time period.
Maybe PG had a strong hand, but with his knowledge of the field (Grimley and Armagh CB, Banty played the winning hand in order to get his man,
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
You're obviously right close to him and some of your points are hard to understand -
But I think what people find hard to understand is ...
- How within 24 hours (pr less maybe?) he left being the front runner for the Armagh job to jumping to Monaghan
- Could he not have waited a few weeks to announce it? Banty could have confirmed his own position and then added PG later?
- Why go to a direct neighbour? Apart from Down - who else would have been a bigger insult to Armagh people?
- Could he not have left the CB go through the motions and appoint him later?
- If he was genuine about taking on the Armagh job why was he talking to Monaghan all along?
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
Banty's 2 week deadline was between himself and the Monaghan CB.
The CB gave him full permission to pursue Grimley
It is Banty's prerogative to fix his own deadline just as it is his matter to firmly stick to the time period.
Maybe PG had a strong hand, but with his knowledge of the field (Grimley and Armagh CB, Banty played the winning hand in order to get his man,
I can't see that even being discussed at a CB level - as for 'permission' I doubt that he ever asked!
You're right though Banty wiped Armagh's eye.
Ironic as him and Joe are so 'close'.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 04, 2009, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: Seany on September 04, 2009, 11:15:10 AM
Just a question;
He's not manager (Banty is)
He't not the trainer (McInkennon is)
So what the hell is his role?
Oh I wouldn't agree there. Its more a question of what is Mc Ilkennon's role now- looks to me to be completely diluted with the new setup.
Yeh looks diluted alright McInkeenon must be just doing fitness now
I guess it's a recognition that the negative tactics of last year and the year before were only limited
Grimley as a 'forwards' coach? What breeding them or coaching them? I always thought Grimley was a master defense tactician?
It'll be a crowded sideline for sure
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 03:04:12 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
You're obviously right close to him and some of your points are hard to understand -
But I think what people find hard to understand is ...
- How within 24 hours (pr less maybe?) he left being the front runner for the Armagh job to jumping to Monaghan
Has this not already been talked about?!
- Could he not have waited a few weeks to announce it? Banty could have confirmed his own position and then added PG later?
Bantys return was based on Pauls acceptance.
- Why go to a direct neighbour? Apart from Down - who else would have been a bigger insult to Armagh people?
I didnt know there were rules as to who managers/coaches were allowed to be involved with.
- Could he not have left the CB go through the motions and appoint him later?
The CB werent going through the motions they knew what was happening. If Paul was now the Armagh manager without 'going through the motions' would you complain?
- If he was genuine about taking on the Armagh job why was he talking to Monaghan all along?
They pursued him!
There is no way Banty's return was based on PG, I don't believe that for a minute.
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
sorry Matt as a passionate arnagh fan who had high hopes for arnagh inder Grimley, i dont see him as annoyed as the rest of us( ffs he went to monaghan which is a kick in the balls to a lot of guys here), he knew that he had the job in the bag, the cb sent paul mc grane to meet him who as i have already said is honorable and trustworthy and indeed a former captain of the county, quite rightly the protagonists from a few years back were kept out of the negotiations,
as i said good luck to grimley but dont play the game that he is disppointed IN 2009 HE TURNED DOWN ARMAGH NOT VICE VERSAl
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
sorry Matt as a passionate arnagh fan who had high hopes for arnagh inder Grimley, i dont see him as annoyed as the rest of us( ffs he went to monaghan which is a kick in the balls to a lot of guys here), he knew that he had the job in the bag, the cb sent paul mc grane to meet him who as i have already said is honorable and trustworthy and indeed a former captain of the county, quite rightly the protagonists from a few years back were kept out of the negotiations,
as i said good luck to grimley but dont play the game that he is disppointed IN 2009 HE TURNED DOWN ARMAGH NOT VICE VERSAl
I never once questioned Paul McGranes creditability. He along with Hugh Morgan worked tirelessly for weeks arranging the appointment and are a credit. It was confirmation from CB that was requested in order to move on and instill Pauls confident in them but they couldnt give it. And until you meet the man you will have no idea how upset he is so how can you make that assumption? As i have said before I understand that people are upset but do you honestly think Paul should have put your feelings and expectations before his own or his family's?
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
sorry Matt as a passionate arnagh fan who had high hopes for arnagh inder Grimley, i dont see him as annoyed as the rest of us( ffs he went to monaghan which is a kick in the balls to a lot of guys here), he knew that he had the job in the bag, the cb sent paul mc grane to meet him who as i have already said is honorable and trustworthy and indeed a former captain of the county, quite rightly the protagonists from a few years back were kept out of the negotiations,
as i said good luck to grimley but dont play the game that he is disppointed IN 2009 HE TURNED DOWN ARMAGH NOT VICE VERSAl
I never once questioned Paul McGranes creditability. He along with Hugh Morgan worked tirelessly for weeks arranging the appointment and are a credit. It was confirmation from CB that was requested in order to move on and instill Pauls confident in them but they couldnt give it. And until you meet the man you will have no idea how upset he is so how can you make that assumption? As i have said before I understand that people are upset but do you honestly think Paul should have put your feelings and expectations before his own or his family's?
No
But should he have put the betterment of Armagh football above his feelings?
Quote from: JMohan on September 04, 2009, 04:14:35 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
sorry Matt as a passionate arnagh fan who had high hopes for arnagh inder Grimley, i dont see him as annoyed as the rest of us( ffs he went to monaghan which is a kick in the balls to a lot of guys here), he knew that he had the job in the bag, the cb sent paul mc grane to meet him who as i have already said is honorable and trustworthy and indeed a former captain of the county, quite rightly the protagonists from a few years back were kept out of the negotiations,
as i said good luck to grimley but dont play the game that he is disppointed IN 2009 HE TURNED DOWN ARMAGH NOT VICE VERSAl
I never once questioned Paul McGranes creditability. He along with Hugh Morgan worked tirelessly for weeks arranging the appointment and are a credit. It was confirmation from CB that was requested in order to move on and instill Pauls confident in them but they couldnt give it. And until you meet the man you will have no idea how upset he is so how can you make that assumption? As i have said before I understand that people are upset but do you honestly think Paul should have put your feelings and expectations before his own or his family's?
No
But should he have put the betterment of Armagh football above his feelings?
Should the CB not have done this? Anyway why has the betterment of Armagh football been put soley on him? Alot of you have since expressed that your glad he never got the job and that he didnt deserve it etc etc. I think alot of people were expecting him to take the job and clear up the CB's mess and because it never happened like that the
majority of posters on here have taken this vindictive stance towards him without even knowing what exactly happened. I can only imagine what that majority would have done when he made a mistake.
What will Paul Grimley bring to the Monaghan setup?
I guess we (Monaghan folk) have been very happy with McElkennon as fitness trainer over the last few years.
I believe that we may need a fresh tactical approach to how we play.
Is that Grimley's strength?
Was he the tactical genius behind Kernan with Armagh or McGeeney in Kildare? I'm not suggesting he's not - I just would like to hear what others think about that.
sorry Matt most guys here have not be vindictive, most are dissappointed but are not buying into solely blaming the CB for this, with the limited knowledge of what happened we all feel that as a process was in place then the procedure had to be followed thru, paul knew this .He also allowed his nomination to be put forward and it must be assumed he signed the nomination form therefore he accepted the process,
having trawled thru the posts most guys are merely questioning what they see as an irrational decision at this stage to become a No 2 of a county who do not have armagh`s potential or playing resources.
it is common knowledge that paul was the only person nominated who was approached by representatives from the county board
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 04:39:30 PM
sorry Matt most guys here have not be vindictive, most are dissappointed but are not buying into solely blaming the CB for this, with the limited knowledge of what happened we all feel that as a process was in place then the procedure had to be followed thru, paul knew this .He also allowed his nomination to be put forward and it must be assumed he signed the nomination form therefore he accepted the process,
having trawled thru the posts most guys are merely questioning what they see as an irrational decision at this stage to become a No 2 of a county who do not have armagh`s potential or playing resources.
it is common knowledge that paul was the only person nominated who was approached by representatives from the county board
Have to agree with that
I don't think anyone is vindictive - only vaguely remember one such post - most are just disappointed!!!
As has been accurately relayed, the negotiations went on for weeks and PG finally accepted but wanted the agreement in writing. The particulars in writing part was initially agreed to by the county board then withdrawn at lunchtime on monday.
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 04, 2009, 05:00:20 PM
As has been accurately relayed, the negotiations went on for weeks and PG finally accepted but wanted the agreement in writing. The particulars in writing part was initially agreed to by the county board then withdrawn at lunchtime on monday.
What was in this agreement?
I ahve always believed in Grimley, he was exactly the counterbalance to big Joe that we needed and he was a big part of our setup both as a player and a coach, he has given a lot to Armagh football over his lifetime.
Grimley to me, orchestrated this whole thing, he knew he had the job in the bag but he put his vendetta with a few board members over his ambition to be county boss and in the process he hurt a lot of his supporters, people who supported him and admired him for the man that he is and was. I think in time he will rue this decision, he embarassed the county with his handling of the situation and in hindsight the county got it right not to take him last time out, a leader must put his team first, he put his need to get even first and in the process gave everyone that loves the county to old two fingered salute on his way out the door.
Paul, I hope you enjoy coaching against Armagh right up until the whistle blows to start the game and I also hope you get yer arse handed to ye every time your new team plays. Paybacks a bitch. ;)
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 04, 2009, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: Seany on September 04, 2009, 11:15:10 AM
Just a question;
He's not manager (Banty is)
He't not the trainer (McInkennon is)
So what the hell is his role?
Oh I wouldn't agree there. Its more a question of what is Mc Ilkennon's role now- looks to me to be completely diluted with the new setup.
Yeh looks diluted alright McInkeenon must be just doing fitness now
I guess it's a recognition that the negative tactics of last year and the year before were only limited
Grimley as a 'forwards' coach? What breeding them or coaching them? I always thought Grimley was a master defense tactician?
It'll be a crowded sideline for sure
How so?
He's replacing an outgoing selector on the line.
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 03:06:04 PM
I can't see that even being discussed at a CB level - as for 'permission' I doubt that he ever asked!
Maybe not with the CB but discussions were held with someone on the CB, Connolly?
Quoteas for 'permission' I doubt that he ever asked!
Why do you doubt that?
Is Banty going to cover the considerable expenses?
Permission or a nod in his direction or a secret handshake to indicate that that he could invite Grimley aboard.
QuoteThere is no way Banty's return was based on PG, I don't believe that for a minute.
What is your belief based on?
The trail of evidence points elsewhere
Why do think Banty wanted 2 weeks before he would confirm to staying another year.
I seriously doubt that Banty had a plan B to fall back on.
It just doesn't add up for me. No county board worth its salt is going to put a confirmation of appointment or anything else in writing to any candidate BEFORE the process is complete and interviews have been undertaken. Go to interview, put your cards on the table and get your response, certainly in writing at that point. Everyone is buying into the mantra now that Paul was 'shafted' last time around. Did the thought ever occur that maybe, just maybe, McDonnell might have interviewed better and had a few credentials of his own going for him (ulster club winner with 2 different clubs, and an Ulster U21 winner, as a No.1, and not a No.2). The tin hat on all of this is that he's given up the chance to manage his own county and build something worthwhile, to go to Monaghan as Banty's sidekick. Jesus C, come on! That does not demonstrate good judgement.
Quote from: Armamike on September 04, 2009, 08:05:52 PM
It just doesn't add up for me. No county board worth its salt is going to put a confirmation of appointment or anything else in writing to any candidate BEFORE the process is complete and interviews have been undertaken. Go to interview, put your cards on the table and get your response, certainly in writing at that point. Everyone is buying into the mantra now that Paul was 'shafted' last time around. Did the thought ever occur that maybe, just maybe, McDonnell might have interviewed better and had a few credentials of his own going for him (ulster club winner with 2 different clubs, and an Ulster U21 winner, as a No.1, and not a No.2). The tin hat on all of this is that he's given up the chance to manage his own county and build something worthwhile, to go to Monaghan as Banty's sidekick. Jesus C, come on! That does not demonstrate good judgement.
That is very valid Armamike. I heard that there was a single major factor that went against him in the previous run at the job and it was a recurring issue that created problems before. As has been pointed out he apparently didn't do a good interview the last time and the only people who are saying he was shafted are the people who backed him.
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 03:06:04 PM
I can't see that even being discussed at a CB level - as for 'permission' I doubt that he ever asked!
Maybe not with the CB but discussions were held with someone on the CB, Connolly?
Perhaps discussions with someone - but if Banty was going for the Monaghan job again I don't see how'd need permission to 'approach' someone else - and not from the County Board ... he might need permission to
bring them in - but not to approach them?
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 07:58:42 PM
Quoteas for 'permission' I doubt that he ever asked!
Why do you doubt that?
Is Banty going to cover the considerable expenses?
Permission or a nod in his direction or a secret handshake to indicate that that he could invite Grimley aboard.
Well I don't know about money
That's definietly one I can't understand - is there a Russian Billionaire in Monaghan now! ;D
- but it doesn't make sense.
For example after his last reshuffle Banty hardly asked the county board for permission to speak to his other selectors?
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 07:58:42 PM
QuoteThere is no way Banty's return was based on PG, I don't believe that for a minute.
What is your belief based on?
The trail of evidence points elsewhere
Why do think Banty wanted 2 weeks before he would confirm to staying another year.
I seriously doubt that Banty had a plan B to fall back on.
My belief is based on common sense.
2 weeks ago The Monaghan job was Banty's job whether or not PG was on board or not. The Monaghan CB said as much if I remember.
He didn't need PG to get the job or hold on to it.
Nayway it'll be a fun summer should the two teams meet!
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: mackers on September 04, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
Matt, if Paul wanted to show the county board up he couldn't have done a worse job! Just look at the reaction of the posters on here, all of whom are fanatical Armagh supporters and most of them have placed on record their dislike of the CB and Paul has them actually defending the CB's stance! I'm sorry but I don't buy into this tight schedule crap.....Paul is one of the most sought after coaches in the north if not all of Ireland, as AFS says he had all the cards, he could've told Banty that he wanted another TWO weeks (yes just two) to allow the processes to have been completed. This smacks of him trying to shaft the county board and you'll find that in a lot of supporters eyes it has backfired!
It's unfair to say that if Paul read this he'll have decided he was right looking at posters reactions, IF he was to look at this thread he'll see that a lot of supporters believed that he was the right/only man for the job and feel let down by him. He portrays himself (and I believe him to be) a passionate Armagh man, why do this on so many people who share that outlook? It's not just the County Board he has shafted.
How can you say he has done this on you! How can you say he has let you down, who are you to him? Is your life directly affected by this? This man has the right to make up his own mind he cant just based it on what other people want of him that is an unfair expectation.
I understand people are annoyed but nowhere near as annoyed as the man himself.
sorry Matt as a passionate arnagh fan who had high hopes for arnagh inder Grimley, i dont see him as annoyed as the rest of us( ffs he went to monaghan which is a kick in the balls to a lot of guys here), he knew that he had the job in the bag, the cb sent paul mc grane to meet him who as i have already said is honorable and trustworthy and indeed a former captain of the county, quite rightly the protagonists from a few years back were kept out of the negotiations,
as i said good luck to grimley but dont play the game that he is disppointed IN 2009 HE TURNED DOWN ARMAGH NOT VICE VERSAl
Fcukin A he has let me down, as a supporter who has froze his nuts off and travelled thousands of miles I feel I'm allowed to express an opinion! Yes my life is directly affected by this! Outside of my work and family following Armagh football is my greatest passion and has been for thirty years! There are guys on here who fly from foreign countries to support Armagh and they're well entitled to their opinion. Who am I to him? Me and hundreds if not thousands of Armagh supporters who travel the length and breadth of the country are the people he has let down.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2009, 08:30:54 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 04, 2009, 08:05:52 PM
It just doesn't add up for me. No county board worth its salt is going to put a confirmation of appointment or anything else in writing to any candidate BEFORE the process is complete and interviews have been undertaken. Go to interview, put your cards on the table and get your response, certainly in writing at that point. Everyone is buying into the mantra now that Paul was 'shafted' last time around. Did the thought ever occur that maybe, just maybe, McDonnell might have interviewed better and had a few credentials of his own going for him (ulster club winner with 2 different clubs, and an Ulster U21 winner, as a No.1, and not a No.2). The tin hat on all of this is that he's given up the chance to manage his own county and build something worthwhile, to go to Monaghan as Banty's sidekick. Jesus C, come on! That does not demonstrate good judgement.
That is very valid Armamike. I heard that there was a single major factor that went against him in the previous run at the job and it was a recurring issue that created problems before. As has been pointed out he apparently didn't do a good interview the last time and the only people who are saying he was shafted are the people who backed him.
Who were his backroom team?
I don't remember all the details of who he had in it but he swapped chairs during interview, but that was only a minor issue when push came to shove.
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 08:40:14 PM
My belief is based on common sense.
2 weeks ago The Monaghan job was Banty's job whether or not PG was on board or not. The Monaghan CB said as much if I remember.
He didn't need PG to get the job or hold on to it.
You are waffling around in the face of known factual statements.
Whether the job was Bantys or not is totally irrelevant.
Banty said he he was taking 2 weeks off to decide whether he would do it or not.
Colm Keys
Friday August 21 2009
'Seamus McEnaney is to take another two weeks to decide whether he wants to commit to another year in charge of Monaghan'.Banty has stated that he wouldn't have decided in the affirmative, if he did not have something new to throw into the mix.
"If I was going to continue, I knew I would need something different. The team needed something different and Paul Grimley will bring that difference."
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 08:40:14 PM
Well I don't know about money
That's definietly one I can't understand - is there a Russian Billionaire in Monaghan now! ;D
We've given the CB a bit of the gold we found up the road there. If there a player transfer system in place we'd be laughing.
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 10:30:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 08:40:14 PM
My belief is based on common sense.
2 weeks ago The Monaghan job was Banty's job whether or not PG was on board or not. The Monaghan CB said as much if I remember.
He didn't need PG to get the job or hold on to it.
You are waffling around in the face of known factual statements.
Whether the job was Bantys or not is totally irrelevant.
Banty said he he was taking 2 weeks off to decide whether he would do it or not.
Colm Keys
Friday August 21 2009
'Seamus McEnaney is to take another two weeks to decide whether he wants to commit to another year in charge of Monaghan'.
Banty has stated that he wouldn't have decided in the affirmative, if he did not have something new to throw into the mix.
"If I was going to continue, I knew I would need something different. The team needed something different and Paul Grimley will bring that difference."
Waffling? Factual statements?
The dogs in the street knew Banty was always staying on.
Whether Grimley or whoever came in or not made no difference to that - the only two things for certain were that
1. Banty was staying
2. There would be some change to the backroom team
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2009, 08:30:54 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 04, 2009, 08:05:52 PM
It just doesn't add up for me. No county board worth its salt is going to put a confirmation of appointment or anything else in writing to any candidate BEFORE the process is complete and interviews have been undertaken. Go to interview, put your cards on the table and get your response, certainly in writing at that point. Everyone is buying into the mantra now that Paul was 'shafted' last time around. Did the thought ever occur that maybe, just maybe, McDonnell might have interviewed better and had a few credentials of his own going for him (ulster club winner with 2 different clubs, and an Ulster U21 winner, as a No.1, and not a No.2). The tin hat on all of this is that he's given up the chance to manage his own county and build something worthwhile, to go to Monaghan as Banty's sidekick. Jesus C, come on! That does not demonstrate good judgement.
That is very valid Armamike. I heard that there was a single major factor that went against him in the previous run at the job and it was a recurring issue that created problems before. As has been pointed out he apparently didn't do a good interview the last time and the only people who are saying he was shafted are the people who backed him.
That's poorly informed nonsense. i;'m very angry with grimley over what he has done here but lets not start reviewing historybecause of it. i'm fairly well informed on the facts of the last debacle and many of the rumours are very accurate. no fault attached to mcdonnell as he was simply going for an interview in a straightforward manner.
there was no change of backroom either. would you care to put any substantiation on any of your last two posts bc?
According to the hoganstand.com
Former players Neil Smyth, Justin McNulty and Michael McConville have been nominated to succeed Peter McDonnell as Armagh football manager.
No offence to the names listed above but i just think that Grimely was the right man for the job.
Have any of the names listed above got any inter county managerial experience??
Quote from: naka on September 04, 2009, 04:39:30 PM
we all feel that as a process was in place then the procedure had to be followed thru, paul knew this .
having trawled thru the posts most guys are merely questioning what they see as an irrational decision at this stage to become a No 2 of a county who do not have armagh`s potential or playing resources.
it is common knowledge that paul was the only person nominated who was approached by representatives from the county board
if this is true then after what has happened how could paul g ever be in a position to work with the county board?
in derry we have found to our cost thet there will be no success if the cb and senior manager dont work together
there always seem to be petty, bitchy individuals in the corridors of poewr or in the back room teams who are intent on getting one over on the other
good luck to armagh this year. they are going to need it after this debacle
PG is an absolute gentleman and a scholar and i wish him evry success with Monaghan, dont think he would really give a shit with some of the comments being made here,
Quote from: Onion Bag on September 05, 2009, 12:16:21 PM
PG is an absolute gentleman and a scholar and i wish him evry success with Monaghan, dont think he would really give a shit with some of the comments being made here,
That's clear.
Quote from: razor on September 05, 2009, 08:51:09 AM
According to the hoganstand.com
Former players Neil Smyth, Justin McNulty and Michael McConville have been nominated to succeed Peter McDonnell as Armagh football manager.
No offence to the names listed above but i just think that Grimely was the right man for the job.
Have any of the names listed above got any inter county managerial experience??
Really think they need to re-open nominations given that the majority of clubs naminated soembody who won't be going through the process.
Anybody know who Mullaghbán nominated? And which club nominated the other Mullaghbán man? Not impossible we could have 3 managers in a row from Mullaghbán!
Am I correct in saying the following could be used a summary of the last two management appointments in Armagh? Based on whats been posted here?
1. PG leaves his position as assistant in Cavan as he feels/has received a nod and a wink that he is to be appointed manager?
2. PG goes through interview process and interviews poorly.
3. Allegations abound that pressure is put on the selection committee by individual(s) either within or with close links to the county, to ensure PG doesn't get the job.
4. Selection committee selects PmcD, club representatives ask about PG but are told that PmcD has been appointed.
5. PG is notified of the decision and feels as if he has been screwed over?
6. PG joins Kildare and is reasonably successful
7. PmcD leaves the Armagh post in a very controversial fashion
8. This controversy is never really openly discussed
9. PG leaves Kildare due to too much traveling
10. PG is widely regarded as only man for the job?
11. PG allows himself to be nominated?
12. PG meets with selection committee and feels/has received a nod and a wink that he is to be appointed manager?
13. PG makes requests/demands of CB which are initially agreed too but are subsequently not?
14. PG decides to take No2 position at Monaghan
If it is then I feel the County Board have once again made a farce of things and thats without passing comment on PG. I just wonder how many people didnt let their name go forward when it was so clear the PG was the first choice for the job. The other problem I have is the idea of closing nomination when we still have a county team and a management team involved in an All Ireland Final. I would like to see the whole process scrapped and started again once the all Ireland Final is over
Quote from: David McKeown on September 05, 2009, 01:53:47 PM
Am I correct in saying the following could be used a summary of the last two management appointments in Armagh? Based on whats been posted here?
1. PG leaves his position as assistant in Cavan as he feels/has received a nod and a wink that he is to be appointed manager?
2. PG goes through interview process and interviews poorly.
3. Allegations abound that pressure is put on the selection committee by individual(s) either within or with close links to the county, to ensure PG doesn't get the job.
4. Selection committee selects PmcD, club representatives ask about PG but are told that PmcD has been appointed.
5. PG is notified of the decision and feels as if he has been screwed over?
6. PG joins Kildare and is reasonably successful
7. PmcD leaves the Armagh post in a very controversial fashion
8. This controversy is never really openly discussed
9. PG leaves Kildare due to too much traveling
10. PG is widely regarded as only man for the job?
11. PG allows himself to be nominated?
12. PG meets with selection committee and feels/has received a nod and a wink that he is to be appointed manager?
13. PG makes requests/demands of CB which are initially agreed too but are subsequently not?
14. PG decides to take No2 position at Monaghan
If it is then I feel the County Board have once again made a farce of things and thats without passing comment on PG. I just wonder how many people didnt let their name go forward when it was so clear the PG was the first choice for the job. The other problem I have is the idea of closing nomination when we still have a county team and a management team involved in an All Ireland Final. I would like to see the whole process scrapped and started again once the all Ireland Final is over
Where do these fit in?
PG is approached by Monaghan?
PG decides to take the No2 position at Monaghan? (The decision wasn't number 14 for definite!)
PG is approached by Armagh CB backer
PG agrees terms with Armagh CB backer
Quote5. PG is notified of the decision and feels as if he has been screwed over?
6. PG joins Kildare and is reasonably successful
7. PmcD leaves the Armagh post in a very controversial fashion
6.33 Players etc not fully supportive of PMcD as they feel PG should have been appointed.
4 - Clubs did more than ask about PG, they voted in favour of his appointment and were told that the entire board would resign if they didn't ratify P McD.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on September 05, 2009, 02:15:39 PM
4 - Clubs did more than ask about PG, they voted in favour of his appointment and were told that the entire board would resign if they didn't ratify P McD.
My understanding is that they were originally told that until someone realised the process didnt need club ratification
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 11:41:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 04, 2009, 10:30:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 04, 2009, 08:40:14 PM
My belief is based on common sense.
2 weeks ago The Monaghan job was Banty's job whether or not PG was on board or not. The Monaghan CB said as much if I remember.
He didn't need PG to get the job or hold on to it.
You are waffling around in the face of known factual statements.
Whether the job was Bantys or not is totally irrelevant.
Banty said he he was taking 2 weeks off to decide whether he would do it or not.
Colm Keys
Friday August 21 2009
'Seamus McEnaney is to take another two weeks to decide whether he wants to commit to another year in charge of Monaghan'.
Banty has stated that he wouldn't have decided in the affirmative, if he did not have something new to throw into the mix.
"If I was going to continue, I knew I would need something different. The team needed something different and Paul Grimley will bring that difference."
Waffling? Factual statements?
The dogs in the street knew Banty was always staying on.
Whether Grimley or whoever came in or not made no difference to that - the only two things for certain were that
1. Banty was staying
2. There would be some change to the backroom team
Uninformed and unsupported waffle.
;D
You'd be surprised
Quote from: Main Street on September 05, 2009, 02:52:56 PM
Uninformed and unsupported waffle.
Main Street, are you saying that if Grimley had told McEnaney that he needed another fortnight for a decision as he was in talks with the Armagh county board and wanted to see how that went, that McEnaney wouldn't have accepted that? I find it hard to believe that McEnaney would have let Grimley go over the sake of a couple of weeks.
I'm very surprised by this news to be honest. I naturally assumed when it was announced that Grimley was leaving ourselves last week that he'd end up in his native county.
I'd still wish him every success with Monaghan all the same.
Maybe he's just not that into you, Armagh!
oisin in yesterday`s sunday life confirmed that grimley had approached him to be No 2 in grimley`s Armagh managment team, he also intimated that grimley didnt tell him he was jumping ship to Monaghan and also seemed to defend the county board when he stated that they couldn`t get the 5 man committee together to ratify the appointment in time which resulted in grimley moving to monaghan.
seems there could be a twist yet!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8247878.stm
whats the odds on oisin hanging up the boots and being his no.2 now?
Quote from: naka on September 07, 2009, 11:12:23 AM
oisin in yesterday`s sunday life confirmed that grimley had approached him to be No 2 in grimley`s Armagh managment team, he also intimated that grimley didnt tell him he was jumping ship to Monaghan and also seemed to defend the county board when he stated that they couldn`t get the 5 man committee together to ratify the appointment in time which resulted in grimley moving to monaghan.
Oisin seems to have jumped the gun here.
One thing is for sure - this is getting very dirty, nasty and embarassing. Corkesque.
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2009, 09:44:01 AM
well cork have murphy and we have nugent
That's some insult to Murphy ! ;) How dare you !
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Sounds to me that there's only one person enjoying seeing Armagh CB tear each other apart. Himself.
It appears to me as well that he didn't want the Armagh job and is happy being number 2.
Grimley knows well that if really had wanted the Armagh job that it was his. Once bitten twice shy.
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 09:58:21 AM
Sounds to me that there's only one person enjoying seeing Armagh CB tear each other apart. Himself.
It appears to me as well that he didn't want the Armagh job and is happy being number 2.
Grimley knows well that if really had wanted the Armagh job that it was his. Once bitten twice shy.
i tend to agree with this, altho the CB has some explaining to do if the Irish News is correct and the selection committee has dissolved itself " in a blaze of controversy"
This latest round of rumblings appears to have been brought about by Brendan Crossan's article in the IN.
How well connected is Crossan? How likely is it that he knows the inside story, and isn't just putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5? In the piece there were no direct quotes from anyone stating that Grimley was back in contention, which makes me a bit wary.
Quote from: AFS on September 10, 2009, 10:06:50 AM
This latest round of rumblings appears to have been brought about by Brendan Crossan's article in the IN.
How well connected is Crossan? How likely is it that he knows the inside story, and isn't just putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5? In the piece there were no direct quotes from anyone stating that Grimley was back in contention, which makes me a bit wary.
Agreed.
It could be simply a case of stirring the pot again. The story / idea has come from someone in Armagh - maybe the scorned selection commiittee ? Who knows ? Anything is possible.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 09:58:21 AM
Sounds to me that there's only one person enjoying seeing Armagh CB tear each other apart. Himself.
It appears to me as well that he didn't want the Armagh job and is happy being number 2.
Grimley knows well that if really had wanted the Armagh job that it was his. Once bitten twice shy.
Here we go, the same two know it alls from the cork dispute are gonna keep us informed...
Quote from: The GAA on September 10, 2009, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 09:58:21 AM
Sounds to me that there's only one person enjoying seeing Armagh CB tear each other apart. Himself.
It appears to me as well that he didn't want the Armagh job and is happy being number 2.
Grimley knows well that if really had wanted the Armagh job that it was his. Once bitten twice shy.
Here we go, the same two know it alls from the cork dispute are gonna keep us informed...
:D ;D
Grimley saga not over yet
Pressure from clubs could force county board climbdown over Orchard hotseat
By Brendan Crossan
10/09/2009
PAUL Grimley could yet be unveiled as the new manager of Armagh following a dramatic twist in the Orchard county.
Just last week, Grimley agreed to join the Monaghan coaching set-up after he failed to reach agreement with the Armagh County Board over the managerial vacancy in his native county.
However, moves are now afoot to see Grimley installed as Armagh's new manager, but not before some blood-letting in the county.
It is understood the selection committee, set up by the county board to find Peter McDonnell's successor, has dissolved itself in a blaze of controversy.
Respected ex-player and selection committee member, Paul McGrane, has already informed county officers that the five-man team has disbanded. It is believed McGrane and other members of the sub-committee felt frustrated with the process of finding a new manager and deemed their positions untenable.
As a result of the selection committee's shock decision, the county board is expected to come under pressure from clubs to appoint the people's favourite – Paul Grimley.
Grimley received overwhelming support from the clubs in the county and he remains a firm favourite with senior players. Like the vast majority of clubs, many senior players are believed to be disillusioned with the selection process.
Two years ago, Grimley applied for the Armagh job vacated by Joe Kernan – but missed out on the post in controversial circumstances.
Despite his bitter experiences of the 2007 selection process, Armagh's All-Ireland-winning assistant manager was prepared to apply for the position again.
However, several of his key requests upon taking the job could not be met and it was then the Pearse Og clubman decided to team up with Seamus McEnaney in Monaghan.
If a new way forward can be found in the Orchard county then it is almost certain Grimley will be installed as Armagh's new manager and that Seamus McEnaney's search for a new assistant will start all over again.
JOE Kernan was last night confirmed as the new Galway football manager, after his appointment was ratified by a meeting of county delegates.
The Crossmaglen clubman beat off competition from former Westmeath manager Tomas O'Flatharta to secure the post.
Kernan, who guided Armagh to their one and only All-Ireland success back in 2002, had previously ruled out a return to his old job.
He stepped down as manger of the Orchard county in 2007 following a defeat in the Qualifiers to Derry.
During his tenure with his native county, Armagh won the Sam Maguire, the National League and four Ulster titles, including three-in-a-row (2004-06).
I heard he has already been offered the job!
as an aside has paul grimley ever managed a team, and if so how were the reports from players
LOL if true the Armagh posters who claimed they'd never have any respect for him ever again etc. are in a bit of a quandry! ;D
Name them UTB
Its not true anyways... all a load of balls
Quote from: Onion Bag on September 10, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Name them UTB
Ignore him, everybody else does......... IF McGrane has walked away as suggested it does put the debate in a different light.
Quote from: The GAA on September 10, 2009, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 09:58:21 AM
Sounds to me that there's only one person enjoying seeing Armagh CB tear each other apart. Himself.
It appears to me as well that he didn't want the Armagh job and is happy being number 2.
Grimley knows well that if really had wanted the Armagh job that it was his. Once bitten twice shy.
Here we go, the same two know it alls from the cork dispute are gonna keep us informed...
You mean the one who said Joe Kernan was looking to manage other counties 2 months in advance of everyone else, and was told he was wrong by you- who then proved to be subsequently wrong ;D
Quote from: Hank Everlast on September 10, 2009, 04:40:17 PM
Its not true anyways... all a load of balls
agreed, the irish news story is i believe a non unner
QuoteLOL if true the Armagh posters who claimed they'd never have any respect for him ever again etc. are in a bit of a quandry! ;D
Name them UTB
Their posts are contained within the first half dozen pages of this thread...provided they haven't been busy deleting them since this story broke! :D
Quote from: under the bar on September 10, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
LOL if true the Armagh posters who claimed they'd never have any respect for him ever again etc. are in a bit of a quandry! ;D
Not really, I'd have the same opinion of him.
I dont think there's anything to that story though, doesnt even make sense.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 04:44:57 PM
Quote from: The GAA on September 10, 2009, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 09:58:21 AM
Sounds to me that there's only one person enjoying seeing Armagh CB tear each other apart. Himself.
It appears to me as well that he didn't want the Armagh job and is happy being number 2.
Grimley knows well that if really had wanted the Armagh job that it was his. Once bitten twice shy.
Here we go, the same two know it alls from the cork dispute are gonna keep us informed...
You mean the one who said Joe Kernan was looking to manage other counties 2 months in advance of everyone else, and was told he was wrong by you- who then proved to be subsequently wrong ;D
Only in your tiny little mind.
You better post up some quotes there or risk being proven embarrassingly wrong. again.
Check out page 29 of the armagh management thread my good friend.
You dismissed my claim that Joe wasn't interested in other jobs as half- assed gossip!
Have a few other bits of news as regards Armagh football if you're interested
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2009, 01:53:48 PM
as an aside has paul grimley ever managed a team, and if so how were the reports from players
You could ask some Clontibret boys, if there are any on here.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 07:04:45 PM
Check out page 29 of the armagh management thread my good friend.
You dismissed my claim that Joe wasn't interested in other jobs as half- assed gossip!
Have a few other bits of news as regards Armagh football if you're interested
Was it you that broke the story on Dyas coming back?
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 07:04:45 PM
Check out page 29 of the armagh management thread my good friend.
You dismissed my claim that Joe wasn't interested in other jobs as half- assed gossip!
Have a few other bits of news as regards Armagh football if you're interested
Quote from: The GAA on August 16, 2009, 11:20:52 AM
Indiana - i don't mind you letting all you're all knowledgable about football in every other county but when you present half assed gossip as fact on the armagh thread, particularly when we know better, it's more annoying. stop pretending to be martin mchugh.
The best footballers in armagh are between 17 and 20? give me a break. thats a sloppy assumption because armagh currently have a decent minor and u21 side. good minor teams provide about 1 or 2 starters long term to a senior side.
Joe does not want the dublin job. it doesn't pay. that's a two year old rumour for two year olds. he wants the armagh job again in 2 or 3 years.
Where did i say joe wasn't interested in the galway job? everyone had heard the galway rumours at that stage but that's all they were - rumours. Yet you post themm up as insider knowledge in some long vanquished attempt to appear a sage.
I told you quite definitely that he wouldn't be interested in the dublin job (the other rumour we've all heard that you keep peddalling as inside knowledge) because it doesn't pay.
the galway job on the other hand...
you know exactly what the rest of us know, except we don't post up rumours as insight.
The fact of the matter is - I let a hint on the 15 August he was looking for a job. I then happened to say he's made no secret of the fact he's interested in the Dublin job at some stage. It was no secret he was looking for another county slot at that time as I said.
You're only pissed because you didn't know. Grow up someday.
everybody knew. jesus chist.
that's like saying martin o'neill is interested in the england job.
its well known in s armagh that joe needed a county job - well known.
he had touted himself to several prominant club teams but they weren't will to come up with the money.
he has been looking for a county job since last year.
but you have all of the scoops....
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 10, 2009, 07:06:27 PM
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2009, 01:53:48 PM
as an aside has paul grimley ever managed a team, and if so how were the reports from players
You could ask some Clontibret boys, if there are any on here.
Ask the Madden men. They swear by him.
is there a topic you don't think you know better than everyone on by the way?
Quote from: The GAA on September 10, 2009, 07:29:49 PM
everybody knew. jesus chist.
that's like saying martin o'neill is interested in the england job.
its well known in s armagh that joe needed a county job - well known.
he had touted himself to several prominant club teams but they weren't will to come up with the money.
he has been looking for a county job since last year.
but you have all of the scoops....
Course they did that why my claim was half- assed gossip as you so eloquently put ;)
Quote from: The GAA on September 10, 2009, 07:30:54 PM
is there a topic you don't think you know better than everyone on by the way?
Not too au fait with theoretical physics but I'm working on it. Won't be posting much soon anyway so you can have the board to your hearts content soon :)
Quote from: full back on September 10, 2009, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 07:04:45 PM
Check out page 29 of the armagh management thread my good friend.
You dismissed my claim that Joe wasn't interested in other jobs as half- assed gossip!
Have a few other bits of news as regards Armagh football if you're interested
Was it you that broke the story on Dyas coming back?
What about this exclusive you broke to us?
I wouldnt take the gift of Grimlet at this stage, especially after hearing that Houlie has accepted the post with oisin as his number two. ;D
This story seems to be blown up out of proportion. Even if the selection committee have stood down, it doesn't mean Grimley will be in the picture again.
I'm one of those Armagh supporters who would have real concerns with Grimley being anywhere near the county job now or ever, after the events of the past couple of weeks.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Interesting.
According to some well connected Ogs people, that's not what happened at all. I am talking about people who would know the man well incidentally
Apparently PG gave the CB a deadline of 1pm for him to get papers saying the deal was signed, sealed and delivered on his terms, they told him they couldn't do that because they couldn't get everyone together to discuss as one person was on holidays. At that point he told them that they had until 3pm to give him the papers, knowing he wouldn't get them that quickly and why.
His reasoning was that he had to look after himself, understandable and all that.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 07:32:14 PM
Quote from: The GAA on September 10, 2009, 07:30:54 PM
is there a topic you don't think you know better than everyone on by the way?
Not too au fait with theoretical physics but I'm working on it. Won't be posting much soon anyway so you can have the board to your hearts content soon :)
Thanks be te jaysus
Quote from: Apple Crumble on September 10, 2009, 07:30:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 10, 2009, 07:06:27 PM
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2009, 01:53:48 PM
as an aside has paul grimley ever managed a team, and if so how were the reports from players
You could ask some Clontibret boys, if there are any on here.
Ask the Madden men. They swear by him.
senior championship final in 1998!
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 10, 2009, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Interesting.
According to some well connected Ogs people, that's not what happened at all. I am talking about people who would know the man well incidentally
Apparently PG gave the CB a deadline of 1pm for him to get papers saying the deal was signed, sealed and delivered on his terms, they told him they couldn't do that because they couldn't get everyone together to discuss as one person was on holidays. At that point he told them that they had until 3pm to give him the papers, knowing he wouldn't get them that quickly and why.
His reasoning was that he had to look after himself, understandable and all that.
What? The Banty's money was going to burn up in 24 hours?
Logan I said something similar to the Ogs person who told me the story, they insisted it was true and that it was from PG himself
Quote from: full back on September 10, 2009, 07:40:10 PM
Quote from: full back on September 10, 2009, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 07:04:45 PM
Check out page 29 of the armagh management thread my good friend.
You dismissed my claim that Joe wasn't interested in other jobs as half- assed gossip!
Have a few other bits of news as regards Armagh football if you're interested
Was it you that broke the story on Dyas coming back?
What about this exclusive you broke to us?
even Stephenite who lives over there and follows AFL said he heard something similar and lets face it he isn't a fan of mine. So there may be something in it. I haven't read anywhere he's been offered a new contract yet. So we'll see, but I don't want to come across as wishing the young lad any misfortune so I'm not going to labour the point. But i'll happily concede I was wrong if that proves to be the case.
Just saying what a prominent Armagh GAA man told me thats all.
Quote from: Logan on September 10, 2009, 09:23:49 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 10, 2009, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 10, 2009, 09:54:43 AM
Grimley was given 24hrs by Monaghan to make a decision. Very persuasive ;). He decided not to take the risk of interview for the Armagh job, but the Armagh county board couldn't back out of the interview process they'd publicly announced even though he'd have got it had he went for it.
Interesting.
According to some well connected Ogs people, that's not what happened at all. I am talking about people who would know the man well incidentally
Apparently PG gave the CB a deadline of 1pm for him to get papers saying the deal was signed, sealed and delivered on his terms, they told him they couldn't do that because they couldn't get everyone together to discuss as one person was on holidays. At that point he told them that they had until 3pm to give him the papers, knowing he wouldn't get them that quickly and why.
His reasoning was that he had to look after himself, understandable and all that.
What? The Banty's money was going to burn up in 24 hours?
Anyone would have struggled to turn down Monaghan's offer. I think looking from the outside in a lot of people criticising Grimley wouldn't have said no especially if you've been screwed over once before.
Apparently Paul Grimley was seen tonight coming out of a house in Irish Street, Armagh shaking hands at the door with a well-known county board member.
Who says Indiana has all the scoops?? ;)
I know everyones getting carried away with the scoop and all that but to be quite frank about it, I think the whole thing is the most anti GAA incident that has happened in Armagh footballing history. As an Armagh Gael I am frankly disgusted at the way the whole rotten scenario has been handled, by ALL concerned, county board, PG, JK, sponsors, the lot of them. In my opinion they have turned Armagh football into some sort of bargaining chip in a political and economic game. I personally feel sick to the stomach that someone should have to be bribed with money to accept the opportunity to manage ones own county. Where did the love of the game and parish go to? I have also incidentally lost all respect I had for Joe Kernan. I always praised him for his assertion that he would never go to another county, thinking that this principle was an honourable one. Now imagine the scenario, Armagh meet Galway in an All-Ireland quarter final, that man is standing shouting instructions to a group of players he never knew before now against his own flesh and blood all for the sake of monetary gain and ego. To me that is everything the GAA isn't, but has been allowed to become.
Another thing, after all this hooha, imagine if both Armagh and Galway go out of the championship at the first round stage this summer. Just imagine after all this talk of the great "managers" from armagh, how much of a laughing stock Armagh Gaels will be? I lay the blame at all their doors and to be honest at this stage if they all removed themselves from Armagh football right now, I'd be happy to start from scratch. There are enough good footballing people in the county who will carry out the Couny board jobs and the management and sponsorship roles with silence and with honourary compensation in the form of pride. Time to get back to what really matters, this has been lost. I am ashamed that all concerned come from Armagh!!!
Its supporters like you that armagh could do without. aside from your latest attack on, well everyone, looking back through your posts you consistently just criticise every aspect of armagh gaa?
these people who you have "lost all respect for" have done mountains of work for the county. it is your right on a discussion forum to speculate on their motives but they can't all be the devil incarnate, can they?
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 11, 2009, 02:34:39 AM
Its supporters like you that armagh could do without. aside from your latest attack on, well everyone, looking back through your posts you consistently just criticise every aspect of armagh gaa?
these people who you have "lost all respect for" have done mountains of work for the county. it is your right on a discussion forum to speculate on their motives but they can't all be the devil incarnate, can they?
Yeh ... but he does have a bit of point though doesn't he?
McGeeney - Kildare - Full Time Manager?
Grimley - Full time? Manager Clontibret, Monaghan, DCU
Kernan - Manager - Galway
Quote from: Logan on September 11, 2009, 08:31:23 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 11, 2009, 02:34:39 AM
Its supporters like you that armagh could do without. aside from your latest attack on, well everyone, looking back through your posts you consistently just criticise every aspect of armagh gaa?
these people who you have "lost all respect for" have done mountains of work for the county. it is your right on a discussion forum to speculate on their motives but they can't all be the devil incarnate, can they?
Yeh ... but he does have a bit of point though doesn't he?
has he? which point?
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 11, 2009, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 11, 2009, 08:31:23 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 11, 2009, 02:34:39 AM
Its supporters like you that armagh could do without. aside from your latest attack on, well everyone, looking back through your posts you consistently just criticise every aspect of armagh gaa?
these people who you have "lost all respect for" have done mountains of work for the county. it is your right on a discussion forum to speculate on their motives but they can't all be the devil incarnate, can they?
Yeh ... but he does have a bit of point though doesn't he?
has he? which point?
I liked these comments
Quote from: Aoise on September 11, 2009, 01:58:54 AM
I know everyones getting carried away with the scoop and all that but to be quite frank about it, I think the whole thing is the most anti GAA incident that has happened in Armagh footballing history. As an Armagh Gael I am frankly disgusted at the way the whole rotten scenario has been handled, by ALL concerned, county board, PG, JK, sponsors, the lot of them. In my opinion they have turned Armagh football into some sort of bargaining chip in a political and economic game. I personally feel sick to the stomach that someone should have to be bribed with money to accept the opportunity to manage ones own county. Where did the love of the game and parish go to? I have also incidentally lost all respect I had for Joe Kernan. I always praised him for his assertion that he would never go to another county, thinking that this principle was an honourable one. Now imagine the scenario, Armagh meet Galway in an All-Ireland quarter final, that man is standing shouting instructions to a group of players he never knew before now against his own flesh and blood all for the sake of monetary gain and ego. To me that is everything the GAA isn't, but has been allowed to become.
Another thing, after all this hooha, imagine if both Armagh and Galway go out of the championship at the first round stage this summer. Just imagine after all this talk of the great "managers" from armagh, how much of a laughing stock Armagh Gaels will be? I lay the blame at all their doors and to be honest at this stage if they all removed themselves from Armagh football right now, I'd be happy to start from scratch. There are enough good footballing people in the county who will carry out the Couny board jobs and the management and sponsorship roles with silence and with honourary compensation in the form of pride. Time to get back to what really matters, this has been lost. I am ashamed that all concerned come from Armagh!!!
I wasn't aware of any "statements" by any of the people you mention unitl Grimley's a couple of weeks ago clarifying his posiiton.
Did i miss morgan's copius paper articles? or kernan's on the matter? or grimley's horsetrading to get the job? no. what you read on the internet is not real life. it's people's opinions and rumour.
the latest piece of crap from this aoise character is to claim that grimley was waiting on some sort of financial bribe to manage his own county and implying that the money didn't stack up so hi pissed off ofr a better deal. he couldn't work with nor reach agreement with the county board. end of. if he chooses to remain in the game coaching after that then that's his business.
of course there are plenty of people who will do all of the jobs you list. personally, i want the best and most capable possible person for each of the roles you list.
So it seems that Brendan Crossan was full of shit anyway ::)
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 11, 2009, 11:40:10 AM
I wasn't aware of any "statements" by any of the people you mention unitl Grimley's a couple of weeks ago clarifying his posiiton.
Did i miss morgan's copius paper articles? or kernan's on the matter? or grimley's horsetrading to get the job? no. what you read on the internet is not real life. it's people's opinions and rumour.
the latest piece of crap from this aoise character is to claim that grimley was waiting on some sort of financial bribe to manage his own county and implying that the money didn't stack up so hi pissed off ofr a better deal. he couldn't work with nor reach agreement with the county board. end of. if he chooses to remain in the game coaching after that then that's his business.
of course there are plenty of people who will do all of the jobs you list. personally, i want the best and most capable possible person for each of the roles you list.
I don't follow all that - you're getting personal - I'm talking about the game in general.
I've no interest in the people concerned - they could be great honorable people - i just don't know - but as a general comment - It does look as though the game is changing to a more financially driven game where money dictates loyalty, and for whatever reason 3 Armagh people seem to be the most commented on movers in the past few weeks.
well 2 - That's just the way it is now. in a few weeks these 2 will be forgotten and the speculation will be somewhere else
Quote from: Aoise on September 11, 2009, 01:58:54 AM
I know everyones getting carried away with the scoop and all that but to be quite frank about it, I think the whole thing is the most anti GAA incident that has happened in Armagh footballing history. As an Armagh Gael I am frankly disgusted at the way the whole rotten scenario has been handled, by ALL concerned, county board, PG, JK, sponsors, the lot of them. In my opinion they have turned Armagh football into some sort of bargaining chip in a political and economic game. I personally feel sick to the stomach that someone should have to be bribed with money to accept the opportunity to manage ones own county. Where did the love of the game and parish go to? I have also incidentally lost all respect I had for Joe Kernan. I always praised him for his assertion that he would never go to another county, thinking that this principle was an honourable one. Now imagine the scenario, Armagh meet Galway in an All-Ireland quarter final, that man is standing shouting instructions to a group of players he never knew before now against his own flesh and blood all for the sake of monetary gain and ego. To me that is everything the GAA isn't, but has been allowed to become.
Another thing, after all this hooha, imagine if both Armagh and Galway go out of the championship at the first round stage this summer. Just imagine after all this talk of the great "managers" from armagh, how much of a laughing stock Armagh Gaels will be? I lay the blame at all their doors and to be honest at this stage if they all removed themselves from Armagh football right now, I'd be happy to start from scratch. There are enough good footballing people in the county who will carry out the Couny board jobs and the management and sponsorship roles with silence and with honourary compensation in the form of pride. Time to get back to what really matters, this has been lost. I am ashamed that all concerned come from Armagh!!!
These men still love the game and they still love their parish as you put it, the thing is that they realise that they should be compensated in some way for their time, why should some faceless paper pusher at HQ get paid when managers put their hearts and soul into leading their counties, working four or five nights a week without some sort of compensation. I have no problem with any of these men getting expenses at all at all because by your way of looking at it, they should actually lose money if like you seem to want to do, pay them nothing.
Joe Kernan has the right to change his mind, he took a job outside of the province at least, unlike Grimley who went to a neighbour. I didnt like the way Joe treated Grimley & Geezer etc toward the end of his tenure with us but he owes Armagh nothing.
Everything is sports is becoming more political, revenue dictates politics and vice versa, we have opened Croker to sawker and rugby and the money is rolling in, the managers see this, know what they give to further the cause of the GAA and they want to be compensated for their time, what is wrong with that?
This is an embarassment to the county, the players sending a letter to the papers is an embarassment and that is why we need to appoint a strong leader, someone who can work with both the board and the players, make fact based decisions on team selections and we need someone who can effectively bring on the youth that is out there and incorporate them into the team.
This is a watershed appointment for Armagh, we have some tremendous talent coming through in the nest 3-4 years and we need the right man to harness that talent, I hope the board ends this mess quickly, get their man and start building for the season ahead so that we can put this whole mess behind us.
Quote from: AFS on September 11, 2009, 11:43:22 AM
So it seems that Brendan Crossan was full of shit anyway ::)
I'd say there was some truth to it
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 10, 2009, 07:06:27 PM
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2009, 01:53:48 PM
as an aside has paul grimley ever managed a team, and if so how were the reports from players
You could ask some Clontibret boys, if there are any on here.
My playing days are over, but I've heard good reports from the younger lads. He's not the manager though, he has the same position in Clontibret as he will with Monaghan,
assistant manager.
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 11, 2009, 11:40:10 AM
I wasn't aware of any "statements" by any of the people you mention unitl Grimley's a couple of weeks ago clarifying his posiiton.
Did i miss morgan's copius paper articles? or kernan's on the matter? or grimley's horsetrading to get the job? no. what you read on the internet is not real life. it's people's opinions and rumour.
the latest piece of crap from this aoise character is to claim that grimley was waiting on some sort of financial bribe to manage his own county and implying that the money didn't stack up so hi pissed off ofr a better deal. he couldn't work with nor reach agreement with the county board. end of. if he chooses to remain in the game coaching after that then that's his business.
of course there are plenty of people who will do all of the jobs you list. personally, i want the best and most capable possible person for each of the roles you list.
I'm not suggesting that Paul Grimley would be financially bribed to manage his own county I don't now the facts regarding that and I personnally believe that there is much more to it than that. Can I also point out that I would not attempt to take the character of any man away without knowing the facts. My main points regarding the whole scenario is that we need to analyse how we got into this mess to ensure it never happens again. I understand you are taking offense to me criticising certain people, however I will point out to you that if these people are taking up public positions within Armagh football and a mess like this is created in the very public manner that it has then I think we are all entitled to have an opinion and I won't apologise for that, I have been involved with Armagh football for too long to believe that anyone is above repute.
Secondly, when monetary compensation becomes involved then politics gets very nasty indeed. And that goes for every realm of society. Armagh men are now spread all over the country managing other teams, I also will not apologise for feeling slightly embarrassed by that as I preferred the GAA when actions were carried out for pride of place and parish. It very much depends on ones own ideological stance on what the GAA stands for, you obviously have a different one than me and I respect that but please don't be so derogatory about mine as respect is a two way street.
These men still love the game and they still love their parish as you put it, the thing is that they realise that they should be compensated in some way for their time, why should some faceless paper pusher at HQ get paid when managers put their hearts and soul into leading their counties, working four or five nights a week without some sort of compensation. I have no problem with any of these men getting expenses at all at all because by your way of looking at it, they should actually lose money if like you seem to want to do, pay them nothing.
Sorry Stew you've picked me up wrong. I don't believe anyone should be out of pocket for anything related to the GAA, of course they should be reimbursed. I will also say that a manager should be provided with enough funds from his county board to be capable of running a team in as professional a manner as he can. My point would be that over the past couple of years, Gaelic football has turned from being somewhere where your place was with your own county and club, to a soccer identical market where counties are now using monetary bribes to ensure successful managers go to them. At the minute this horrible situation has put Armagh football in diffs, and thats what I'm concerned about!
I'm looking forward to watching our minor lads take to the field next week in an All-Ireland final, no mean feat, but look at what has happened! these young lads have been overshadowed by polictics and economic markets within the very same sport and county that their going out to bust their balls for. Our focus should be them and the safe transition of them into senior county football. Hypothetically, How cynical will these lads be to learn that the only reason a future county senior manager is with them is because the money was right, is to be honest so dissappointing to me and it needs sorted now! I'm not niaive enough to believe that no money would exchange hands but I also cannot help feeling that we are somehow losing what made us such a great organisation in the first place.
Quote from: Aoise on September 12, 2009, 05:59:12 AM
I'm not suggesting that Paul Grimley would be financially bribed to manage his own county I don't now the facts regarding that and I personnally believe that there is much more to it than that. Can I also point out that I would not attempt to take the character of any man away without knowing the facts. My main points regarding the whole scenario is that we need to analyse how we got into this mess to ensure it never happens again. I understand you are taking offense to me criticising certain people, however I will point out to you that if these people are taking up public positions within Armagh football and a mess like this is created in the very public manner that it has then I think we are all entitled to have an opinion and I won't apologise for that, I have been involved with Armagh football for too long to believe that anyone is above repute.
Those are all fine generalities that we can all agree on. however, it's difficult to take you seriously when you consistently come up with shite like:
Quote from: Aoise on September 11, 2009, 01:58:54 AM
I personally feel sick to the stomach that someone should have to be bribed with money to accept the opportunity to manage ones own county.
The question we have toask is what are the conditions in which this mess has been created and who are the controllers who are charged with managing the situation?
Quote from: Aoise on September 12, 2009, 05:59:12 AM
Secondly, when monetary compensation becomes involved then politics gets very nasty indeed. And that goes for every realm of society. Armagh men are now spread all over the country managing other teams, I also will not apologise for feeling slightly embarrassed by that as I preferred the GAA when actions were carried out for pride of place and parish. It very much depends on ones own ideological stance on what the GAA stands for, you obviously have a different one than me and I respect that but please don't be so derogatory about mine as respect is a two way street.
Don't assume to know my ideological stance on anything. Particularly., don't assume to have some higher moral code than me.
That armagh men are spread all over the country brings me two emotions. first, pride that we have produced coaches of that calibre who are sought after in every corner. but secondly, anger that we don't have the capacity to harness these guys for our own benefit. why are we so backward as to have allowed individuals with no expertise dictate the coaching policy and structures in the county? why have personal agendas been the driver for coaching appointments and why is there not an experienced and qualified person in place to handle of these things? If we had a proper coaching structure we'd now haVE Kieran McGeeney managing armagh, assisted by paul grimley and oisin McConville. We'd have our best young coaches assisting the development and minor squads in some sort of coaching development team run by dennis hollywood and paul kelly that would consist of justin mcnulty, aidan o'rourke, diarmaid marsden, enda mcnulty, barry o'hagan, etc.
that none of this is in place is the fault of the county board. what research or expertise has gone into the coaching structures in our county? dod we just do whatever tyrone, etc are doing? why are the best people not involved? why are there frequently stories that would scare rats coming from the development squads?
Why has there never been an investigation into the goings on that placed us on the road to this mess two years ago? don't forget that contrived shafting cost us a coaching ticket of Grimley, McGeeney and McCartan. swept under the carpet.
Why has there never been an investigation into the obvious public undermining and abandonment of Peter McDonnell? swept under the carpet.
Will there be an investigation into the current chaos and just what the hell is going on? course not.
This county board has now presided over - and enabled - three of the biggest public embarrassments this county has ever endured - not to mention each costing us fantastic people probably for life - and what will be done or who will be held to account?
nothing and noone.
Armagh need a root and branch genisis report and quick.
What he said
Nail on head DuffleKing
I know very well if a Genesis Report was published it would be a white wash too - just last the IRFU one!
Armagh need a professional outsider who has no ties to the place to come in and advise them.
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 04:31:17 PM
I know very well if a Genesis Report was published it would be a white wash too - just last the IRFU one!
Armagh need a professional outsider who has no ties to the place to come in and advise them.
There was group in 96/97 who were brought together to advise on a vision going forward for Armagh football in the medium term. These were people who had no connections to County Board etc coming from an external point of view. That process was certainly of benefit at the time.
Is he just a number two (and a good One) and the confidence to go one step further?