Full Report here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0716/Volume%201.pdf (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0716/Volume%201.pdf)
OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS
Social and Family Affairs
* Cuts to all social welfare payments by 5% - €850m
* Reduction and changes to child benefit - €513m
* An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m
* An end to payments for Community Employment Schemes for those already on benefit - €100m
* Cutting benefits for dental, optical and hearing services - €92m
* Grading of jobseekers allowance by age - €70m
* Cutting the Family Support Agency - €30m
* Changing eligibility for Family Income Supplement - €20m
* Taxing household benefits package - €11.6m
Staff cuts - None
Total cut €1.8bn
Health and Children
* Reduce the size of the Department by 10% a year over the next three years - €11m
* Reduce HSE staff - €391.3m
* Revise the income guidelines for the Medical Card to the basic rate of social welfare, the jobseekers allowance - €100m
* Increase the threshold for the Drugs Payment Scheme from 4100 to €125 a month - €37m
* Those previously receiving free prescriptions must now pay €5 for each prescription - €70m
* Hold an open competition to provide services under the General Medical Services scheme - €370m
* Increase Hospital Charges - €6m
* Increase charges for private facilities in public hospitals by 20% - €50m
* Hospitals and clinicians must provide generic medicines, off-patent drugs and value-for-money treatments - €30m
* Changes to agencies and organisations in the disability and mental health area which receive State funding - €50m
* Changes to the Fair Deal scheme with the individual to contribute more to nursing home care from their own residence - €50m
* Means test for Homecare packages - €24m
Total cuts: €1.2bn
Staff cuts: 540
Education and Science
* Staff and pay cuts in primary and post primary schools - €150m
* Staff cuts at third level - €140m
* Cuts to number of special needs assistants and English language support teachers - €81m
* Increased pupil teacher ratio at primary and post primary - €80m
* Change to student support grant - €70m
* Cuts to capitation grants for primary and post primary schools - €25m
* Cuts to research and development - €27.5m
* Cuts to grants for private schools - €25m
* Merging of smaller primary schools - €25m
* Cuts to school transport - €25m
* Integration of senior travelling training - €25m
* Cuts to third level structures - €23.7m
Staff cuts 6,390
Total cut €746m
Agriculture
* Reduce expenditure on the Disadvantaged Area Compensatory Allowance Scheme by 30% - €66m
* Terminate the Suckler Cow Scheme - €44m
* Close REPS 4 and no rollover from REPS 2 and 3 into REPS 4 - €80m
* Reduce Teagasc staff numbers, rationalise Teagasc and Dept offices - €37m
Total cuts €305m
Staff cuts 1,140 staff
Enterprise, Trade and Employment
* Merge the regional offices and shared services of Enterprise Ireland, IDA and FÁS - €87m
* A single reduced funding stream for all science, technology and innovation activities across all departments - €53m
* Streamline all support of Irish enterprises and marketing functions in Enterprise Ireland - €10m
* Stop funding the FÁS Services to Business and Skillnets programmes - €27m
* Cuts to training allowances for the unemployed - €24.5m
Total cuts €237.7m
Staff cuts 594
Community Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs
* Cuts to Community Services Programmes - €64m
* Cuts to Gaeltacht Schemes - €20.8m
* Cuts to islands infrastructure - €20m
Staff cuts 196
Total cut €151m
Environment, Heritage and Local Government
* Cuts to local government including an end to 12 county or town councils - €100m
* Further efficiencies - €30m
Staff cuts 30
Total cut €130m
Department of Transport
* Efficiencies among CIE companies - €55m
* Cuts to road maintenance - €20m
* Cuts to regional air services - €15m
* Axing the Rural Transport Scheme - €11m
* Outsourcing of driver and vehicle testing - €10m
* Cuts to the Road Saferty Authority - €4.2m
* Merging the National Roads Authority and the Railway Procurement Agency - €3m
* Merging the National Vehicle and Driver File into the Road Safety Authority - €2m
Staff cuts 80
Total cut €127.1m
Arts, Sports and Tourism
* Cuts in allocation to tourism and marketing - €27m
* Cut in grant to Sports Council - €17.7m
* Cut allocation to Horse and Greyhound Fund - €16.4m
Staff cuts 170
Total cut €104.8m
Department of Justice
* Cuts to pay and allowances for justice sector staff - including gardai - €65m
* Cuts to the courts service - €13.5m
* Cuts in immigration staff - €10m
* Transfer disability functions of department to Department of Health - €2.6m
* Cuts to Youth Detention Centres - €2.5m
Staff cuts 540
Total cut €136.4m
Communications, Energy and Natural Resources
* Cuts to energy efficiency schemes run by Sustainable Energy Ireland - €40m
* Cuts to direct funding to TG4 - to be partially funded from licence fee - €10m
Staff cuts 106
Total cuts €65.6m
Defence
* Measures including a reduction in Defence Forces personnel by more than 500
Total cuts €53m
Staff cuts 520
Finance
* Cuts to the Office of Public Works - reducing spare capacity and rental costs - €21m
Staff cuts 660
Total cuts €82.8m
Department of Foreign Affairs
* Cuts to overseas missions - €15m
* Cuts to overseas aid - €14.8m
* Cuts to Support for Irish Emigrants - €1m
Staff cuts 65
Total cut €41.7m
Houses of the Oireachtas Commission
* Changes to some operations - €6m
* Cuts to Oireachtas Allowances and Benefits - €1.5m
Total cuts €7.8m
Staff cuts 42
National Treasury Management Agency
* Reduce staff and other administrative costs - €5.3m
* Changes at the State Claims Agency including payment schemes, legal fees and risk management services
Total cuts €5.3m
Staff cuts 40
Department of the Taoiseach
* An end to the National Economic and Social Development Organisation - except for the National Economic and Social Council - €4m
* Axing the Law Reform Commission - €2.8m
* Cuts to the cost of Census 2011 - €2.2m
Staff cuts 77
Total Cut €17.5m
Looking at some of the above suggests a report prepared by someone who spent their life in Dublin 4. ::)
Report probably prepared by one of the big consultancy firms. This normally means it was planned and reviewed by senior staff but the grunt work carried out by monkies.
That's because civil servants dont like other civil servants asking awkard questions like "what do you actually do?". Also means that if it goes belly-up then civil servants can not be held responsible.
Catastophic error corrected. Phew!
It was done by an economist who had a team of I suspect like minded Dublin 4 types to draw it all up.
Some very harsh stuff that could save money now but do real damages to any chance of a recovery in the future. I'm thinking of training and education in particular.
The bulk of this is far too difficult and will never be implimented but something will have to be done. The current level of borrowing is simply unsustainable.
Staff cuts 6,390 in Education and Science?
f**k me
QuoteStaff cuts 6,390 in Education and Science?
Yeah, compared to 540 in the f*cking HSE. Jaysus.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2009, 02:55:29 PM
It was done by an economist who had a team of I suspect like minded Dublin 4 types to draw it all up.
Here, here... out the country is getting an awful raw deal.
Axing the Rural Transport Scheme - €11m
Cuts to local government including an end to 12 county or town councils - €100m
Cuts to Community Services Programmes - €64m
Cuts to Gaeltacht Schemes - €20.8m
Cuts to islands infrastructure - €20m
Stop funding the FÁS Services to Business and Skillnets programmes - €27m
Merging of smaller primary schools - €25m
Cuts to school transport - €25m
Etc
Im in shock!
As long as the GPA get their money, who cares?
Is about 4.5bl worth of cuts which should be made before education is cut.
Feck the GPA. This is far more serious. Their demands look criminal after seeing the cuts in this report.
And of course the lads in the public service unions have been watching Big Ian reruns all week. Never! Never! Never!
Quote from: AbbeySider on July 16, 2009, 04:08:46 PM
Feck the GPA. This is far more serious. Their demands look criminal after seeing the cuts in this report.
And the prize for the biggest leap to connect two subjects goes to.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
And the prize for the biggest leap to connect two subjects goes to.
Explain that statement
Quote from: AbbeySider on July 16, 2009, 04:14:09 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
And the prize for the biggest leap to connect two subjects goes to.
Explain that statement
Some leap to connection ABS to the GPA.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 04:24:11 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on July 16, 2009, 04:14:09 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
And the prize for the biggest leap to connect two subjects goes to.
Explain that statement
Some leap to connection ABS to the GPA.
I dont know what you abbreviation ABS stands for, An Bord Snip Nua im guessing but ill answer that anyway.
I dont think its a big leap at all as Martin Cullen and the Dept of Arts, Sport and Tourism provide the funding for the GPA demands.
By the way Cullen is a TD, and the Dept of Arts, Sport and Tourism is a public office. And today, massive cuts were announced - see the start of this thread.
So any excess demands or increases considering that players were never paid in the first place, and taking into account all the cutting of services that are much more important, makes the players demands look very bad.
Is there a prize for the biggest idiot ? I have someone in mind.
Quote from: AbbeySider on July 16, 2009, 04:08:46 PM
Feck the GPA. This is far more serious. Their demands look criminal after seeing the cuts in this report.
I was making that point myself... still, I accept it is totally unrelated.
View from the bbc.
Report calls for 17,300 job cuts
Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan faces a huge defecit
The Irish government has published a report recommending 17,300 public service job cuts and a 5% reduction in social welfare payments.
A group chaired by a University College Dublin economist - dubbed An Bord Snip Nua - put forward recommendations aimed at achieving 5.3bn euros in savings.
It said the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs should be closed and its functions redistributed.
The current 400m euro a week government borrowing was unsustainable, it said.
The Republic of Ireland's government deficit has ballooned as a result of the banking crisis and the recession.
Economist Colm McCarthy, who chaired the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes, told RTE they needed to tackle the big items of spending - health, education and social welfare.
Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said the government recognised "the choices facing us are not simple or pain-free".
"Following them through requires a collective social effort and not one motivated by protecting one's patch or pursuing one's special interest to the exclusion of all else," he said.
"That is why I would ask people to read the report carefully and critically, and avoid knee-jerk and defensive reactions to each and every suggestion raised by the Special Group.
"All of us, including those of us in public administration, will have to accept that the old ways of doing things need to be looked at afresh, so that we can deliver excellent public services with the dramatically lower level of resources now available."
The Republic of Ireland's largest public service union, Impact, has already threatened industrial action if the government attempted to impose public service pay cuts, pension reductions or compulsory redundancies.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 16, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Economist Colm McCarthy, who chaired the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes, told RTE they needed to tackle the big items of spending - health, education and social welfare.
Services on which economists and Dublin 4 types can afford not to depend on.
No mention of cutting subventions to fcukin banks. >:(
Is An Bord Snip Niua the official title? I think I've heard Government members referring to as this?
That was a phrase coined by media people.
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2009, 05:22:05 PM
Is An Bord Snip Niua the official title? I think I've heard Government members referring to as this?
Na the official title is the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes.
I wonder how much this unworkable report cost?
And as an extra special bonus, the 26 Counties are to be reduced to 22 - with Carlow, Leitrim (and I assume, Longford and Laois) being swallowed up by their larger neighbours. Kinda symbolic.
Say goodbye to Lisbon II, lads.
Here's a few mad ideas.
What about stopping the irish government funding of overseas aid projects? see where the government is throwing money about http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/
How about stopping welfare payments/free cars/hairdressing vouchers etc to bogus asylum seekers and non eu parasites.
How about putting a cap on the amount of money top civil servants can be paid (im thinking judges and state barristers who've fleeced the taxpayer in these tribunals)
How about holding the banking and financial community accountable for all the money until it is paid back, make them work it off and recouping all their assets (put them on skid row) including any side-companies they may have.
How about getting rid of the HSE completely and let the nurses and doctors do their job, theres more penpushers than carers these days.
How about stopping language programs in schools, let kids learn the basics and if they can't speak english or irish let their parents pay for lessons. Not the states job to pay for integration teachers when theres problems getting a regular one for 30 kids in a portacabin.
How about tendering all constructions jobs to only companies with the financial clout to finish them, if they default on the project or are overbudget then either they pay the difference or they hand it over (luas, red cow roundabout etc)
Safeguards like these 10 years ago would have stopped a lot of the problems we face now.
Quote from: carribbear link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Here's a few mad ideas.
What about stopping the irish government funding of overseas aid projects? see where the government is throwing money about http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/
How about stopping welfare payments/free cars/hairdressing vouchers etc to bogus asylum seekers and non eu parasites.
How about putting a cap on the amount of money top civil servants can be paid (im thinking judges and state barristers who've fleeced the taxpayer in these tribunals)
How about holding the banking and financial community accountable for all the money until it is paid back, make them work it off and recouping all their assets (put them on skid row) including any side-companies they may have.
How about getting rid of the HSE completely and let the nurses and doctors do their job, theres more penpushers than carers these days.
How about stopping language programs in schools, let kids learn the basics and if they can't speak english or irish let their parents pay for lessons. Not the states job to pay for integration teachers when theres problems getting a regular one for 30 kids in a portacabin.
How about tendering all constructions jobs to only companies with the financial clout to finish them, if they default on the project or are overbudget then either they pay the difference or they hand it over (luas, red cow roundabout etc)
Safeguards like these 10 years ago would have stopped a lot of the problems we face now.
Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html
Quote from: AbbeySider link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Gnevin link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Quote from: AbbeySider link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Gnevin link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
And the prize for the biggest leap to connect two subjects goes to.
Explain that statement
Some leap to connection ABS to the GPA.
I dont know what you abbreviation ABS stands for, An Bord Snip Nua im guessing but ill answer that anyway.
I dont think its a big leap at all as Martin Cullen and the Dept of Arts, Sport and Tourism provide the funding for the GPA demands.
By the way Cullen is a TD, and the Dept of Arts, Sport and Tourism is a public office. And today, massive cuts were announced - see the start of this thread.
So any excess demands or increases considering that players were never paid in the first place, and taking into account all the cutting of services that are much more important, makes the players demands look very bad.
Still don't see why we are talking about 3.5 million for the GPA in the context of 5.3 Bl. The GPA have rightly reused a offer which was an attempt to spilt them and have not asked for a increase or "excess demands" .
Quote
Is there a prize for the biggest idiot ? I have someone in mind.
Is it the person who didn't know what ABS stood for in a thread about An Bord Snip ;)
Quote from: Dinny Breen link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Denn Forever link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Is An Bord Snip Niua the official title? I think I've heard Government members referring to as this?
Na the official title is the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes.
I wonder how much this unworkable report cost?
Lad of the radio said the chair was doing it for free. Not sure if that meant the whole thing was free or what .
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2009, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 16, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Economist Colm McCarthy, who chaired the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes, told RTE they needed to tackle the big items of spending - health, education and social welfare.
Services on which economists and Dublin 4 types can afford not to depend on.
No mention of cutting subventions to fcukin banks. >:(
Did you get knocked down by a bus in Dublin 4 or do you just live in a world of easy stereotypes?
You know what I mean Muppet.
I see there are recommendations to reduce the no. of special needs teachers by 2,000 >:(
Then they recommend closing hundreds of rural Garda Stations....a recipe for more Nallys if ever there was one.
And they recommend depriving the poor oul divils living in remote rural areas their bus to town on a Friday.
I think it's fair to say no Politician will want to implement a lot of what's in this Economist's report. ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2009, 07:58:27 PM
You know what I mean Muppet.
I see there are recommendations to reduce the no. of special needs teachers by 2,000 >:(
Then they recommend closing hundreds of rural Garda Stations....a recipe for more Nallys if ever there was one.
And they recommend depriving the poor oul divils living in remote rural areas their bus to town on a Friday.
I think it's fair to say no Politician will want to implement a lot of what's in this Economist's report. ;)
It was the 4 bench warrants being ignored by the stations on Froggy Ward that was the problem. He thought he was above the law because the law ignored him.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: carribbear link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Here's a few mad ideas.
What about stopping the irish government funding of overseas aid projects? see where the government is throwing money about http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/
How about stopping welfare payments/free cars/hairdressing vouchers etc to bogus asylum seekers and non eu parasites.
How about putting a cap on the amount of money top civil servants can be paid (im thinking judges and state barristers who've fleeced the taxpayer in these tribunals)
How about holding the banking and financial community accountable for all the money until it is paid back, make them work it off and recouping all their assets (put them on skid row) including any side-companies they may have.
How about getting rid of the HSE completely and let the nurses and doctors do their job, theres more penpushers than carers these days.
How about stopping language programs in schools, let kids learn the basics and if they can't speak english or irish let their parents pay for lessons. Not the states job to pay for integration teachers when theres problems getting a regular one for 30 kids in a portacabin.
How about tendering all constructions jobs to only companies with the financial clout to finish them, if they default on the project or are overbudget then either they pay the difference or they hand it over (luas, red cow roundabout etc)
Safeguards like these 10 years ago would have stopped a lot of the problems we face now.
Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html
not exactly what I had in mind but the country has never had an honest debate about how much they are spending to look after all these guests.
Whoever is here legally is not a problem but those who arent should be turfed out and stop being a drain on the finance department.
Just saying if belts are being tightened then must think of prudent ways to lower government spending. Handing out free cars/housing etc to folk who arrive on these shores hasnt helped in recent times and is especially galling when normal folk are being denied social welfare by the government after working for years and paying their taxes.
Quote from: carribbear link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Gnevin link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Quote from: carribbear link=topic=13004.msg#msg date=
Here's a few mad ideas.
What about stopping the irish government funding of overseas aid projects? see where the government is throwing money about http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/
How about stopping welfare payments/free cars/hairdressing vouchers etc to bogus asylum seekers and non eu parasites.
How about putting a cap on the amount of money top civil servants can be paid (im thinking judges and state barristers who've fleeced the taxpayer in these tribunals)
How about holding the banking and financial community accountable for all the money until it is paid back, make them work it off and recouping all their assets (put them on skid row) including any side-companies they may have.
How about getting rid of the HSE completely and let the nurses and doctors do their job, theres more penpushers than carers these days.
How about stopping language programs in schools, let kids learn the basics and if they can't speak english or irish let their parents pay for lessons. Not the states job to pay for integration teachers when theres problems getting a regular one for 30 kids in a portacabin.
How about tendering all constructions jobs to only companies with the financial clout to finish them, if they default on the project or are overbudget then either they pay the difference or they hand it over (luas, red cow roundabout etc)
Safeguards like these 10 years ago would have stopped a lot of the problems we face now.
Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html
not exactly what I had in mind but the country has never had an honest debate about how much they are spending to look after all these guests.
Whoever is here legally is not a problem but those who arent should be turfed out and stop being a drain on the finance department.
Just saying if belts are being tightened then must think of prudent ways to lower government spending. Handing out free cars/housing etc to folk who arrive on these shores hasnt helped in recent times and is especially galling when normal folk are being denied social welfare by the government after working for years and paying their taxes.
The country has had plenty of debate on this issue.
The Human rights charter be damned so? I don't see many people queuing up to enter Ireland now so your point is moot.
You want to know about waste talk to a Dublin taxi driver with a HSE contract.
Quote from: LaurelEye on July 16, 2009, 05:49:43 PM
And as an extra special bonus, the 26 Counties are to be reduced to 22 - with Carlow, Leitrim (and I assume, Longford and Laois) being swallowed up by their larger neighbours. Kinda symbolic.
Say goodbye to Lisbon II, lads.
There are more than 26 counties at the moment but it's not a bad idea some economies of scale could be gained here . As I once read you don't have to hurl for the man who collects your bin.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 09:48:00 PM
The country has had plenty of debate on this issue.
The Human rights charter be damned so? I don't see many people queuing up to enter Ireland now so your point is moot.
You want to know about waste talk to a Dublin taxi driver with a HSE contract.
it certainly hasn't been debated properly because they have never told the truth about where the health boards money has been spent on giving people money for cars, fill their trolleys at tescos, vouchers for hair braiding (because its their culture - first hand info there). Even Adrian Kennedy refuses to open up this can of worms on his talkshow because he's afraid if people hear the truth on how their money is being handed over with blank cheques.
Quote from: carribbear on July 16, 2009, 11:16:47 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 09:48:00 PM
The country has had plenty of debate on this issue.
The Human rights charter be damned so? I don't see many people queuing up to enter Ireland now so your point is moot.
You want to know about waste talk to a Dublin taxi driver with a HSE contract.
it certainly hasn't been debated properly because they have never told the truth about where the health boards money has been spent on giving people money for cars, fill their trolleys at tescos, vouchers for hair braiding (because its their culture - first hand info there). Even Adrian Kennedy refuses to open up this can of worms on his talkshow because he's afraid if people hear the truth on how their money is being handed over with blank cheques.
::) ::)
Maybe you should go on there so and shout and curse at people .
This whole charade is laughable if it wasn't so serious. It was obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together that most of these measures needed to be brought in at least 12 months ago but the govt bottled it big time in the face of the unions refusals to accept job cuts. Hopefully this time they are belatedly strapping on a pair of balls and will finally grasp the nettle and stop hitting easy targets. Job cuts are not nice but it just has to be done. So long as its done fairly and good workers are kept and wasters are "retired". That could be the problem though.
No mention of cutting the amount of TDs or Senators?
QuoteAigh, but I'd reckon they were told to go to the extremes so the govt can turn around and do something milder and not look like the bad guys
All of these measures together would only reduce borrowing by about a quarter. Hardly an extreme.
Quote from: boojangles on July 17, 2009, 12:13:37 AM
No mention of cutting the amount of TDs or Senators?
Cutting TD's would require a referendum .
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:00:31 AM
Quote from: boojangles on July 17, 2009, 12:13:37 AM
No mention of cutting the amount of TDs or Senators?
Cutting TD's would require a referendum .
Or a revolution ;)
Even if those cuts make it trough, its only a 1/4 of what's required.
After Lisbon passes, I can see social welfare getting a big chop.
If the dole has risen in real terms by 67% in the last 9 years, then it is going to getted chopped right down again.
It all proves that Bertie really was a socialist!
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 11:29:57 PM
Quote from: carribbear on July 16, 2009, 11:16:47 PM
it certainly hasn't been debated properly because they have never told the truth about where the health boards money has been spent on giving people money for cars, fill their trolleys at tescos, vouchers for hair braiding (because its their culture - first hand info there). Even Adrian Kennedy refuses to open up this can of worms on his talkshow because he's afraid if people hear the truth on how their money is being handed over with blank cheques.
Maybe you should go on there so and shout and curse at people .
You miss the point. If even the likes of him refuses to talk about it then you know its a debate thats being swept under the carpet. No-one has the balls to talk facts and figures. Thats where all the health board money has been going to, not to hospitals and the care of patients, the health boards instead use their budget to pay rents, give away money for cars and no-one is any the wiser, the people are told to think its the greedy nurses who take all the cash.
Quote from: carribbear on July 17, 2009, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 16, 2009, 11:29:57 PM
Quote from: carribbear on July 16, 2009, 11:16:47 PM
it certainly hasn't been debated properly because they have never told the truth about where the health boards money has been spent on giving people money for cars, fill their trolleys at tescos, vouchers for hair braiding (because its their culture - first hand info there). Even Adrian Kennedy refuses to open up this can of worms on his talkshow because he's afraid if people hear the truth on how their money is being handed over with blank cheques.
Maybe you should go on there so and shout and curse at people .
You miss the point. If even the likes of him refuses to talk about it then you know its a debate thats being swept under the carpet. No-one has the balls to talk facts and figures. Thats where all the health board money has been going to, not to hospitals and the care of patients, the health boards instead use their budget to pay rents, give away money for cars and no-one is any the wiser, the people are told to think its the greedy nurses who take all the cash.
No the money in the health system is being wasted at the front line on things like taxi's to drive bloods around Dublin, electricians on call to change light bulbs etc.
Quote from: boojangles on July 17, 2009, 12:13:37 AM
No mention of cutting the amount of TDs or Senators?
Yes there is :
"
Possible reduction in the number of TDsArticle 16.2.2 of the Constitution states: "The number of members shall from time to time be fixed
by law, but the total number of members of Dáil Éireann shall not be fixed at less than one member
for each thirty thousand of the population, or at more than one member for each twenty thousand of
the population". The most recent population estimate from the Central Statistics Office put the
April 2008 population at 4,422,100.
On this basis, the number of TDs could be no fewer than 148,
but could be as many as 222. The number of TDs could be reconsidered when the results of the
April 2011 Census become available, probably in the Autumn of 2011, and there could be scope to
decide on a reduction in the numbers.
For illustrative purposes, a reduction of 12 in the number of
TDs would lead to savings of around €3m a year, including savings on the numbers of personal
assistants and secretarial staff.
Possible move to a unicameral systemThe Group notes that among EU members, many (Bulgaria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland,
Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Portugal and Sweden) have unicameral parliaments. Bicameral
parliaments are in the main found in larger countries and in smaller states with a federal structure
e.g. Austria. Countries similar in size and population to Ireland, such as New Zealand (which
shares with Ireland a Westminster-style tradition of parliamentary democracy) and Israel also have
a unicameral parliament.
The Group is also cognisant of the 1996 Report of the Constitution Review Group, which concluded
that if the two main criteria for retention of Seanad Éireann – namely the desirability of a system of
checks and balances and of representation of as wide a cross-section of society as possible – could
not be satisfied, then the case for the Seanad would fail and it should be abolished. There is an
arguable case that the first criterion is not satisfied, since Dáil Éireann can overrule any
amendments; and as regards the second criterion, the vast majority of the electorate in Seanad
elections are local government councillors, generally of one or other of the three main political
parties. Furthermore, no action has been taken on foot of the Report on Seanad Reform (2004) and
successive Governments have declined to legislate to take account of the Seventh Amendment to
Bunreacht na hÉireann, which allowed for broader representation from the third-level institutions.
- 150 -
Accordingly, the Group considers that there is at least an arguable case for the option of moving to
a unicameral legislative system and discontinuing Seanad Éireann.
This would give rise to savings
of around €25m a year: as well as salary savings from Senators and their personal staff, there
would be lower cost overheads for the running of Leinster House and fewer ushers required. Any
such proposition would require careful and extended consideration, taking into account issues of
democratic accountability and constitutional settlement that go beyond the remit of the Group."
The craziest thing I noticed from the report that I was not previously aware of , was this :
A couple with 3 kids on benfits gets 42k benefits.
This means that they would need to get a job earning at least 55k to be better off working, so therefore why bother looking for a job ??
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html)
Couple (three child age 4, 8 and 11)
Adult rate 204.30 10,623.60
Qualifying adult 135.60 7,051.20
Qualified Child dependants (aged 4. 8 and 11) 78.00 4,056.00
Rent Allowance (€1110 pm) 232.15 12,071.80
Back to school clothing and footwear allowance, once off 600.00
Fuel Allowance JA (JB after 12 months), 32 weeks 20.00 640.00
Early childcare supplement 9.58 498.16
679.63 35,540.76
plus Child Benefit (€332 pm) 1st two children) 76.61 3,983.72
plus Child Benefit (€203 pm) Third child 46.85 2,436.20
Total Social Welfare payment 803.09 41,960.68
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 10:03:16 AM
No the money in the health system is being wasted at the front line on things like taxi's to drive bloods around Dublin, electricians on call to change light bulbs etc.
I've no disagreement with your statement, I think thats a terrible waste of money also. Not forgetting the mad practices of consultants being able to charge extortionate amounts and operating privately in public hospitals plus the whole doctors fees shambles.
HSE's Professor Drumm pulls in 1400 euro a day not including his bonuses.
Add what i've said about health boards paying for upkeep of people and there you can cut a large slice out of the health budget. Wouldnt cuts like that help?
See what mick999 wrote about and you'll see why the health/welfare service is really in crisis and why there is a complete dis-interest in some folk looking for a job.
I know people like that who are surviving pretty well out of breeding and doing sod all else.
Quote from: mick999 on July 17, 2009, 10:18:24 AM
A couple with 3 kids on benfits gets 42k benefits.
This means that they would need to get a job earning at least 55k to be better off working, so therefore why bother looking for a job ??
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html)
Couple (three child age 4, 8 and 11)
Adult rate 204.30 10,623.60
Qualifying adult 135.60 7,051.20
Qualified Child dependants (aged 4. 8 and 11) 78.00 4,056.00
Rent Allowance (€1110 pm) 232.15 12,071.80
Back to school clothing and footwear allowance, once off 600.00
Fuel Allowance JA (JB after 12 months), 32 weeks 20.00 640.00
Early childcare supplement 9.58 498.16
679.63 35,540.76
plus Child Benefit (€332 pm) 1st two children) 76.61 3,983.72
plus Child Benefit (€203 pm) Third child 46.85 2,436.20
Total Social Welfare payment 803.09 41,960.68
The child benefit and early childcare supplement (€7K in total) they'd get anyway regardless of whether they were employed or not.
Carribbear what are these free cars you keep going on about?
Quote from: LaurelEye on July 17, 2009, 10:41:24 AM
Quote from: mick999 on July 17, 2009, 10:18:24 AM
A couple with 3 kids on benfits gets 42k benefits.
This means that they would need to get a job earning at least 55k to be better off working, so therefore why bother looking for a job ??
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html)
Couple (three child age 4, 8 and 11)
Adult rate 204.30 10,623.60
Qualifying adult 135.60 7,051.20
Qualified Child dependants (aged 4. 8 and 11) 78.00 4,056.00
Rent Allowance (€1110 pm) 232.15 12,071.80
Back to school clothing and footwear allowance, once off 600.00
Fuel Allowance JA (JB after 12 months), 32 weeks 20.00 640.00
Early childcare supplement 9.58 498.16
679.63 35,540.76
plus Child Benefit (€332 pm) 1st two children) 76.61 3,983.72
plus Child Benefit (€203 pm) Third child 46.85 2,436.20
Total Social Welfare payment 803.09 41,960.68
The child benefit and early childcare supplement (€7K in total) they'd get anyway regardless of whether they were employed or not.
And rent supplement only applies if you are renting a private house.
More than likely a couple with 3 children would be already in a Council House. So another 13,000 off those massaged figures.
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 17, 2009, 10:48:15 AM
Carribbear what are these free cars you keep going on about?
Health Board writes cheques for car grants the same as it does for giving the same folk cheques for hair braiding (first hand knowledge of this) and filling up shopping trolleys in tescos (again first hand knowlege of this).
How else are these families able to keep a house with a few kids going when they dont work? Where did they raise the capital to keep it all going? Their savings?
Quote from: carribbear on July 17, 2009, 11:26:30 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 17, 2009, 10:48:15 AM
Carribbear what are these free cars you keep going on about?
Health Board writes cheques for car grants the same as it does for giving the same folk cheques for hair braiding (first hand knowledge of this) and filling up shopping trolleys in tescos (again first hand knowlege of this).
How else are these families able to keep a house with a few kids going when they dont work? Where did they raise the capital to keep it all going? Their savings?
41K a year would allow you money for too buy a auld 97 car. I mean you'd pick one up for about 2 k. How do you have first hand knowledge of this? Did a immigrant tell you or someone in the department of social services?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 11:30:05 AM
Health Board writes cheques for car grants the same as it does for giving the same folk cheques for hair braiding (first hand knowledge of this) and filling up shopping trolleys in tescos (again first hand knowlege of this).
How else are these families able to keep a house with a few kids going when they dont work? Where did they raise the capital to keep it all going? Their savings?
41K a year would allow you money for too buy a auld 97 car. I mean you'd pick one up for about 2 k. How do you have first hand knowledge of this? Did a immigrant tell you or someone in the department of social services?
[/quote]
41k a year for what exactly? Theres my point, we could be cutting a lot of 41ks a year who shouldnt be claiming it.
And dont be fooled into thinking that its only 41k, plenty more additional grants to be had. Just ask the health boards.
Right. Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if you are unemployed in the South the Health Board will give you a cheque to buy a new car?
[/quote]
41k a year for what exactly? Theres my point, we could be cutting a lot of 41ks a year who shouldnt be claiming it.
And dont be fooled into thinking that its only 41k, plenty more additional grants to be had. Just ask the health boards.
[/quote]
So you don't have first hand knowledge then?
Well that's 41k for everyone so I don't see how immigration applies here.
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 17, 2009, 11:50:44 AM
Right. Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if you are unemployed in the South the Health Board will give you a cheque to buy a new car?
Did I say unemployed? Read the thread again like a good lad.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 11:55:45 AM
41k a year for what exactly? Theres my point, we could be cutting a lot of 41ks a year who shouldnt be claiming it.
And dont be fooled into thinking that its only 41k, plenty more additional grants to be had. Just ask the health boards.
[/quote]
So you don't have first hand knowledge then?
Well that's 41k for everyone so I don't see how immigration applies here.
[/quote]
Ditto...I said non-eu nationals who shouldnt qualify. There is a difference between those who are here legitimately and those who arent.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 11:55:45 AM
41k a year for what exactly? Theres my point, we could be cutting a lot of 41ks a year who shouldnt be claiming it.
And dont be fooled into thinking that its only 41k, plenty more additional grants to be had. Just ask the health boards.
[/quote]
So you don't have first hand knowledge then? Well that's 41k for everyone so I don't see how immigration applies here.
[/quote]
I do - its true.
However I slightly disagree with you and carribear on the HSE problem
there may be waste in changing lightbulbs and taxi's / cars etc - which is the same for all the gov departments and gov agencies
but the problem is the oversubscription of civil servants in the Dept of health who contribute nothing but this lower/middle management
and even high waged senior management could be cut by a quarter and have still have the health service operating as 'efficiently' as it currently is - and would have a lot more money at the hospitals disposal to keep the likes of crumlin hospital open and performing urgent operations etc.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
However I slightly disagree with you and carribear on the HSE problem
there may be waste in changing lightbulbs and taxi's / cars etc - which is the same for all the gov departments and gov agencies
but the problem is the oversubscription of civil servants in the Dept of health who contribute nothing but this lower/middle management
and even high waged senior management could be cut by a quarter and have still have the health service operating as 'efficiently' as it currently is - and would have a lot more money at the hospitals disposal to keep the likes of crumlin hospital open and performing urgent operations etc.
They could cut half the HSE staff and I don't think anyone would notice. And reduce those fu**ers salaries while they're at it. Unfortunately then we'll get strike action. Theres going to be a lot of strikes if these proposals are put forward. Welcome to the 1980's again. I'm going to see Spandau Ballet in concert.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
You reckon you'd know them?
I'll just do a gnevin and pretend it doesn't happen. There, thats better.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on July 17, 2009, 08:17:37 AM
Even if those cuts make it trough, its only a 1/4 of what's required.
After Lisbon passes, I can see social welfare getting a big chop.
If the dole has risen in real terms by 67% in the last 9 years, then it is going to getted chopped right down again.
It all proves that Bertie really was a socialist!
Two days after he signed the treaty he was that confident in the economy he suggested suicide for those who thought the economy was in danger. Surely the treaty was written in a different time for a different world.
Quote from: carribbear on July 17, 2009, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
You reckon you'd know them?
I'll just do a gnevin and pretend it doesn't happen. There, thats better.
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
Still relevant to saving money.
Lets all close our eyes and imagine we go to a happy place. I like your style.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 17, 2009, 02:02:24 PM
You've got to hand it to Fianna Fail - they've got public and private sector workers on at each others throats as an excellent distraction while they cover up the dirty work of their friends in the construction industry and the banking sector.
Spot on. Focus diverted elsewhere. Everyone else better tighten their belts while a select few get off scot free.
Look Carribbear I can't understand your feckin posts.
WHO GETS A FREE CAR FROM THE HEALTH BOARD?
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 17, 2009, 02:16:29 PM
Look Carribbear I can't understand your feckin posts.
WHO GETS A FREE CAR FROM THE HEALTH BOARD?
Learn to read then or go to remedial classes to help you.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 17, 2009, 02:02:24 PM
You've got to hand it to Fianna Fail - they've got public and private sector workers on at each others throats as an excellent distraction while they cover up the dirty work of their friends in the construction industry and the banking sector.
a couple of friends of mine working in diff banks say that its all back to business as usual and they are lending money out again (but not to any slightly risky cases) and the only threat to them now is that the banks will use the 'recession' times to sack a few of them and reduce costs (when they dont actually have to).
All thanks to us and the bail out guarantee, with taxpayers funds etc.
and we got what exactly in return ?
Quoteand we got what exactly in return ?
Completely ridden!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
why - would you know my cousins gf ?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
why - would you know my cousins gf ?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
or a person who actually received and cashed a cheque (that I saw) ......
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
why - would you know my cousins gf ?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
or a person who actually received and cashed a cheque (that I saw) ......
What does the cheque tell you? Nothing ! .They could of gotten 3 months back payments the same as any Irish person. So when you said first hand you meant hearsay and conjecture .
Quote from: LaurelEye on July 16, 2009, 05:49:43 PM
And as an extra special bonus, the 26 Counties are to be reduced to 22 - with Carlow, Leitrim (and I assume, Longford and Laois) being swallowed up by their larger neighbours.
But we don't
want any of those redundant Counties.
Fair enough, to help you out of your present economic diffs, we we might throw you a few Euros for Donegal, on the basis that it would be great not to have to change our money when nipping over to our holiday homes, playing golf or marching at the Twelfth at Rossnowlagh etc. It would also severely reduce the length of the border.
Plus it would be nice to welcome our Lagganeer Brethren from the East of the county back to enjoy the Blue Skies of Freedom overhead, after years of enduring Grey Mist all around.
P.S. What about if we threw in Strabane as a "luckpenny? Sure, we'll even agree to load it up and tow it down to Co. Sligo for you, as soon as the van is free... ;)
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
why - would you know my cousins gf ?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
or a person who actually received and cashed a cheque (that I saw) ......
What does the cheque tell you? Nothing ! .They could of gotten 3 months back payments the same as any Irish person. So when you said first hand you meant hearsay and conjecture .
unless your relatives and frinds are in the habit of telling you lies then I suggest you keep that b*****t of yours regarding conjecture to yourself.
I would also state that if this was a backpayment from the Dpt then they would have actually printed the figures on the cheque rather than the WRITTEN amount that the guy himself filled in (yes I saw the cheque!)!
Go stick that in yer pipe !!!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:43:57 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 01:07:18 PM
I do - its true.
And who is your first hand knowledge from?
why - would you know my cousins gf ?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Well it wasn't so much the who but the source. Is this person working in the department of social services or a immigrant aka first hand knowledge or is it a guy you know who knows a guy who heard "first hand knowledge".
Any way this is getting away from the point of this thread ABS and its report
or a person who actually received and cashed a cheque (that I saw) ......
What does the cheque tell you? Nothing ! .They could of gotten 3 months back payments the same as any Irish person. So when you said first hand you meant hearsay and conjecture .
unless your relatives and frinds are in the habit of telling you lies then I suggest you keep that b*****t of yours regarding conjecture to yourself.
I would also state that if this was a backpayment from the Dpt then they would have actually printed the figures on the cheque rather than the WRITTEN amount that the guy himself filled in (yes I saw the cheque!)!
Go stick that in yer pipe !!!
Who said anything about lies?
"Conjecture is defined as speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence); "speculations about the outcome ..."
So the department of social services gave a guy a blank cheque or who filled it in?
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
Might be something to do with the fact that no journalist/reporter wants to touch the story with a barge pole in case they get a label (hence my Adrian Kennedy reference)
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
Quote from: carribbear on July 17, 2009, 03:57:46 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
Might be something to do with the fact that no journalist/reporter wants to touch the story with a barge pole in case they get a label (hence my Adrian Kennedy reference)
Sure and government asked NASA the experts in cover ups to help them cover it up or maybe the story is bull.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:03:47 PM
Sure and government asked NASA the experts in cover ups to help them cover it up or maybe the story is bull.
Is that the best you can come up with? Game, set and match to me.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
Quote from: carribbear on July 17, 2009, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:03:47 PM
Sure and government asked NASA the experts in cover ups to help them cover it up or maybe the story is bull.
Is that the best you can come up with? Game, set and match to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will not accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. It wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. I wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
cant answer why not
plenty of other disgraceful goings on of a larger magnitude possibly !
I dont know the guythat wrote the cheque, but it was the chap that bought the car and a non national. Nigerian to be precise.
by the way there is far more in civil service to be going at rather than these smaller costs. We waste a fecking HUGE amount of money on gov/civil service costs that also never make the papers.
Some of which I have witnessed first hand and left a prev job because I would not stand for suce waste and would not be party to it.
you can take that also as conjecture if you like.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. I wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
cant answer why not
plenty of other disgraceful goings on of a larger magnitude possibly !
I dont know the guythat wrote the cheque, but it was the chap that bought the car and a non national. Nigerian to be precise.
by the way there is far more in civil service to be going at rather than these smaller costs. We waste a fecking HUGE amount of money on gov/civil service costs that also never make the papers.
Some of which I have witnessed first hand and left a prev job because I would not stand for suce waste and would not be party to it.
you can take that also as conjecture if you like.
So what we is a hand written cheque given to a non national for reasons unknown with no suggestion of this money being handed out too buy a car or the non national got any more that a Irish person would of gotten.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. I wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
cant answer why not
plenty of other disgraceful goings on of a larger magnitude possibly !
I dont know the guythat wrote the cheque, but it was the chap that bought the car and a non national. Nigerian to be precise.
by the way there is far more in civil service to be going at rather than these smaller costs. We waste a fecking HUGE amount of money on gov/civil service costs that also never make the papers.
Some of which I have witnessed first hand and left a prev job because I would not stand for suce waste and would not be party to it.
you can take that also as conjecture if you like.
So what we is a hand written cheque given to a non national for reasons unknown with no suggestion of this money being handed out too buy a car or the non national got any more that a Irish person would of gotten.
with the greatest of respect, your prev sentence above not making feck all sense - I think you are asking me was a blank cheque given to someone for reasons unknown.
No as far as I am aware, the applicant (the nigerian chap as per example) wants a car, the dept tell him to go source on but theres prob a limit to the amount he has to spend.
He finds one, goes back to the dept to get the cheque issues, it is, but with no amount on it, the guy fills it in, gives it to the car owner/seller (who calls up dept to verify that this is bone fide) and then when finds it is, then takes cheque and hands over car.
simple as.
A lot of peopleon the dole/welfare get money or items bought for them also....I have been told that you just have to know the 'system'.
Its great, I fund all this activity through my taxes ! (and the wastage/malpractice in the gov departments and civil service)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. I wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
cant answer why not
plenty of other disgraceful goings on of a larger magnitude possibly !
I dont know the guythat wrote the cheque, but it was the chap that bought the car and a non national. Nigerian to be precise.
by the way there is far more in civil service to be going at rather than these smaller costs. We waste a fecking HUGE amount of money on gov/civil service costs that also never make the papers.
Some of which I have witnessed first hand and left a prev job because I would not stand for suce waste and would not be party to it.
you can take that also as conjecture if you like.
So what we is a hand written cheque given to a non national for reasons unknown with no suggestion of this money being handed out too buy a car or the non national got any more that a Irish person would of gotten.
No as far as I am aware, the applicant (the nigerian chap as per example) wants a car, the dept tell him to go source on but theres prob a limit to the amount he has to spend.
He finds one, goes back to the dept to get the cheque issues, it is, but with no amount on it, the guy fills it in, gives it to the car owner/seller (who calls up dept to verify that this is bone fide) and then when finds it is, then takes cheque and hands over car.
simple as.
There is no evidence of that in your story. All you have is a hand written cheque , nothing more nothing less. Read into that what you like.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:55:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. I wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
cant answer why not
plenty of other disgraceful goings on of a larger magnitude possibly !
I dont know the guythat wrote the cheque, but it was the chap that bought the car and a non national. Nigerian to be precise.
by the way there is far more in civil service to be going at rather than these smaller costs. We waste a fecking HUGE amount of money on gov/civil service costs that also never make the papers.
Some of which I have witnessed first hand and left a prev job because I would not stand for suce waste and would not be party to it.
you can take that also as conjecture if you like.
So what we is a hand written cheque given to a non national for reasons unknown with no suggestion of this money being handed out too buy a car or the non national got any more that a Irish person would of gotten.
No as far as I am aware, the applicant (the nigerian chap as per example) wants a car, the dept tell him to go source on but theres prob a limit to the amount he has to spend.
He finds one, goes back to the dept to get the cheque issues, it is, but with no amount on it, the guy fills it in, gives it to the car owner/seller (who calls up dept to verify that this is bone fide) and then when finds it is, then takes cheque and hands over car.
simple as.
There is no evidence of that in your story. All you have is a hand written cheque , nothing more nothing less. Read into that what you like.
its hard to read anything you 'write' !
obv its also comprehension you have a problem with not just spelling!
read into that what you like.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:55:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
not much of a comeback there gnevin, take yer defeat with graciousness!
or do you go running off to the 'northside people' every time a 'paycheck' comes in !
I would of though this very wide spread practice would of made one paper sure I've heard from about 10 different sources or maybe your contact is every one's best friend. Well my pay check isn't newsworthy , I would of assumed the government department handing out blank cheque would be
I've heard mention of this kind of thing a good few times now but you for one dont seem to want to acknowledge this happening
can you account for the cheque I saw with handwritten figures on it ?
what explanation can you give ?
Other than what it was for , how the lady come to have this cheque as per what I have said !
if not then cop on.
I will accept heresy and conjecture as fact. The simple matter of fact here is this if true is an national disgrace which would of been in every newspaper. I wasn't why?
You never said who hand wrote the cheque.
cant answer why not
plenty of other disgraceful goings on of a larger magnitude possibly !
I dont know the guythat wrote the cheque, but it was the chap that bought the car and a non national. Nigerian to be precise.
by the way there is far more in civil service to be going at rather than these smaller costs. We waste a fecking HUGE amount of money on gov/civil service costs that also never make the papers.
Some of which I have witnessed first hand and left a prev job because I would not stand for suce waste and would not be party to it.
you can take that also as conjecture if you like.
So what we is a hand written cheque given to a non national for reasons unknown with no suggestion of this money being handed out too buy a car or the non national got any more that a Irish person would of gotten.
No as far as I am aware, the applicant (the nigerian chap as per example) wants a car, the dept tell him to go source on but theres prob a limit to the amount he has to spend.
He finds one, goes back to the dept to get the cheque issues, it is, but with no amount on it, the guy fills it in, gives it to the car owner/seller (who calls up dept to verify that this is bone fide) and then when finds it is, then takes cheque and hands over car.
simple as.
There is no evidence of that in your story. All you have is a hand written cheque , nothing more nothing less. Read into that what you like.
its hard to read anything you 'write' !
obv its also comprehension you have a problem with not just spelling!
read into that what you like.
I'll break it down for you.
Why when you seen this cheque did you jump to the conclusion that is was issued with the express purpose of buying a car?
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 05:11:51 PM
I'll break it down for you.
Why when you seen this cheque did you jump to the conclusion that is was issued with the express purpose of buying a car?
one day had car
told me about the guy coming to buy it
a couple of days later
no car
had cheque
showed me cheque with handwritten amount
not exactly a case for scully and mulder ffs
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 05:11:51 PM
I'll break it down for you.
Why when you seen this cheque did you jump to the conclusion that is was issued with the express purpose of buying a car?
one day had car
told me about the guy coming to buy it
a couple of days later
no car
had cheque
showed me cheque with handwritten amount
not exactly a case for scully and mulder ffs
Show me the proof the the cheque was
expressly and
solely issued to buy a car. You can't because you don't know why this boy had this cheque and it's
just as likely to be back payments as anything else.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 05:30:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 05:11:51 PM
I'll break it down for you.
Why when you seen this cheque did you jump to the conclusion that is was issued with the express purpose of buying a car?
one day had car
told me about the guy coming to buy it
a couple of days later
no car
had cheque
showed me cheque with handwritten amount
not exactly a case for scully and mulder ffs
Show me the proof the the cheque was expressly and solely issued to buy a car. You can't because you don't know why this boy had this cheque and it's just as likely to be back payments as anything else.
that last grasp straw of yours was debunked earlier
if the payment was for back pay or whatever you are having yourself - there would have been a PRINTED figure on it.
that the car was looked for and bought by this means is proof enough I would believe.
if not then this is a case of fraud by the car purchaser
either way the lady lodged her money and it cleared.
whatever it is - cheques issued by the department for cars or for other purposes
or
cheques issued by the department for something and its being fraudulently used
it amounts to the same point - these cheques should not be issued at all !
its a wasteful drain on our already overburdened economy and a misuse of money - which as I pointed out has bigger fish to fry than this case of misuse. More widespread and bigger costing abuses within public sector.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 16, 2009, 11:44:27 PM
This whole charade is laughable if it wasn't so serious. It was obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together that most of these measures needed to be brought in at least 12 months ago but the govt bottled it big time in the face of the unions refusals to accept job cuts. Hopefully this time they are belatedly strapping on a pair of balls and will finally grasp the nettle and stop hitting easy targets. Job cuts are not nice but it just has to be done. So long as its done fairly and good workers are kept and wasters are "retired". That could be the problem though.
It is amazing how few of those there seems to be in Ireland.
1 (2009 Government spend will be >€55 Billion) + 1 (2009 Tax take will be < €30 Billion) = 2 (Unsustainable borrowing leading to bankruptcy)
That means either:
1. The Government must quickly find a way to double the tax take (not going to happen).
2. The Government grow some balls and quickly reduce the public spend.
3. The EU come in and halve the public service spend.
4. The IMF come in and halve the public service spend.
My money is on 3 happening next year if and only if we pass Lisbon. Otherwise my money is on 4.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 05:30:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2009, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 05:11:51 PM
I'll break it down for you.
Why when you seen this cheque did you jump to the conclusion that is was issued with the express purpose of buying a car?
one day had car
told me about the guy coming to buy it
a couple of days later
no car
had cheque
showed me cheque with handwritten amount
not exactly a case for scully and mulder ffs
Show me the proof the the cheque was expressly and solely issued to buy a car. You can't because you don't know why this boy had this cheque and it's just as likely to be back payments as anything else.
that last grasp straw of yours was debunked earlier
if the payment was for back pay or whatever you are having yourself - there would have been a PRINTED figure on it.
that the car was looked for and bought by this means is proof enough I would believe.
if not then this is a case of fraud by the car purchaser
either way the lady lodged her money and it cleared.
whatever it is - cheques issued by the department for cars or for other purposes
or
cheques issued by the department for something and its being fraudulently used
it amounts to the same point - these cheques should not be issued at all !
its a wasteful drain on our already overburdened economy and a misuse of money - which as I pointed out has bigger fish to fry than this case of misuse. More widespread and bigger costing abuses within public sector.
Why would it have too be printed? You've no evidence that back payments aren't in some cases hand written other than is suits your agenda.
Sure I could make the same point if the cheque was for a car it would of been printed . ::)
Quote from: muppet on July 17, 2009, 05:51:20 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 16, 2009, 11:44:27 PM
This whole charade is laughable if it wasn't so serious. It was obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together that most of these measures needed to be brought in at least 12 months ago but the govt bottled it big time in the face of the unions refusals to accept job cuts. Hopefully this time they are belatedly strapping on a pair of balls and will finally grasp the nettle and stop hitting easy targets. Job cuts are not nice but it just has to be done. So long as its done fairly and good workers are kept and wasters are "retired". That could be the problem though.
It is amazing how few of those there seems to be in Ireland.
1 (2009 Government spend will be >€55 Billion) + 1 (2009 Tax take will be < €30 Billion) = 2 (Unsustainable borrowing leading to bankruptcy)
That means either:
1. The Government must quickly find a way to double the tax take (not going to happen).
2. The Government grow some balls and quickly reduce the public spend.
3. The EU come in and halve the public service spend.
4. The IMF come in and halve the public service spend.
My money is on 3 happening next year if and only if we pass Lisbon. Otherwise my money is on 4.
Yeah but we still have the public service unions saying not a inch.
Quote from: carribbear on July 17, 2009, 03:57:46 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
p.s I love how has seemed to have happened to every small minded person close personal friend in the country , yet was never report by any TV, Radio,newspaper or independent report.
Might be something to do with the fact that no journalist/reporter wants to touch the story with a barge pole in case they get a label (hence my Adrian Kennedy reference)
Extremely unlikely.
Kevin Myers would be all over such a story like a rash!
Read his article today in the Indo about travellers, if you doubt me.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 17, 2009, 06:34:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 17, 2009, 05:51:20 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 16, 2009, 11:44:27 PM
This whole charade is laughable if it wasn't so serious. It was obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together that most of these measures needed to be brought in at least 12 months ago but the govt bottled it big time in the face of the unions refusals to accept job cuts. Hopefully this time they are belatedly strapping on a pair of balls and will finally grasp the nettle and stop hitting easy targets. Job cuts are not nice but it just has to be done. So long as its done fairly and good workers are kept and wasters are "retired". That could be the problem though.
It is amazing how few of those there seems to be in Ireland.
1 (2009 Government spend will be >€55 Billion) + 1 (2009 Tax take will be < €30 Billion) = 2 (Unsustainable borrowing leading to bankruptcy)
That means either:
1. The Government must quickly find a way to double the tax take (not going to happen).
2. The Government grow some balls and quickly reduce the public spend.
3. The EU come in and halve the public service spend.
4. The IMF come in and halve the public service spend.
My money is on 3 happening next year if and only if we pass Lisbon. Otherwise my money is on 4.
Yeah but we still have the public service unions saying not a inch.
Of course they say that, their members pay them to protect their terms not to savage them.
The responsibility lies with the Government. They were happy to take the credit for everything during the boom (Mary Harney always attributed it to good Government) now they must accept responsibility for the crash and do something about it.
The threshold for monthly medicines with the HSE is gone up to 125 euro. Most peoples medications wouldn't cost that, so I don't know why they are bothering.
Bertie's bribing of the electorate with hand over fist parish-pump payouts to whomsoever should demand it whenever has finally come unravelled, as was always certain to happen, but always sure to be when he had exited stage left. Cute hoor, the cutest fecking hoor of them all.