gaaboard.com

anyone watching this? for the basis of some of the discussions on this board I think people should.

I'm finding this really interesting!

Very interesting . Very sad too .

"1918 RTÉ Television

On RTÉ Television, viewers of the 1918: Ireland and the Great War season will see a moving account of the music of World War One, with evocative performances from Liam Clancy among others, as well as special editions of Nationwide and Would You Believe, a restored documentary presented by Myles Dungan and a Remembrance Service from the Abbey and Adelaide Road Presbyterian Churches. To find out more about all of the television programmes, day by day, use the buttons on the right of this page."
http://www.rte.ie/1918/tv.html

Very good programme. Shows that rte can make decent productions when they set their mind to it.  There was a very powerful, angry performance of The Green Fields of France by Liam Clancy.

The sheer number of young men but down in their prime is shocking every time I hear them. Twenty thousand lost in a day. Ulster regiment went out with 11500 one day and returned with 5500 the next day. The loss of life and the conditions from the footage and photos is hard to comprehend.

about time RTE did something decent with my money. Very interesting show, its hard to believe how we have forgotten about these men who put there lives on the line for Ireland and the World but yet we seem to have allowed to wipe them from our memory.

A very good show and was interesting to see the differing agendas of songs of that time either pro or anti-war and some songs were produced as a riposte to anti war songs. The 36th Ulster Divison suffered massive losses during the battle of the Somme, never been but the Somme heritage centre in Newtownards is meant to be well worth a visit.
RTE is getting a bit of stick but their documentary output has been consistently good in recent years, Hidden History for instance. 
I agree about Liam Clancy, he is always a very emotive singer.

Anywhere I could get a copy of the show? Sounds very interesting.

I have a CD with Liam Clancy doing a version both of "No Man's Land" (as "The Green Fields Of France" was originally known) and "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda".  Breathtaking stuff - you wouldn't listen to the Furey Brothers' version ever again.

i read recently over a thousand mayo lads died there, i  visit the battlefields frequently, they are still digging up the remains of war.Northern France is a great place for war and history buffs.

An interesting show from a cultural perspective though the potted history from the renowned "historian" Kevin Myers was superficial and at times wildly inaccurate. Liam's stares into the camera were a bit freaky to say the least.   

Vert very sad - this was a particularly brutal war, fought with mens' limbs - nowadays there are very few casualties and computers make the decisions for us in most cases.

At least 10 million lives wasted in an immoral war just because the Bully boy Political leaderships of the European Empires couldnt live in peace with each other.
Then again the whole ethos and foundations of these empires was built on bully boy wars and stealing oher peoples' lands so it was hard to expect anything else from them.

The frightening thing was how the propoganda got so many people to rush off to their deaths.
And in case ye think we are too sophisticated for that kind if thing nowadays - cast ye're minds back to when War Criminal Bush launched his illegal invasion of the sovereign state of Iraq..... the whole US media and 90% of the population seemed caught up the whole frenzied tissue of lies.

If politicians had to fight in the wars they cause we'd have peace forever.

Mind you I still only commemorate those who fought for Irish Freedom from Brits- especially those who fought to defend Irish democracy in the 1918 to 1921 period.

Rossfan, I really must agree with you. BBush has killed a lot of people, he was a poor choice as president and rumsfeld/cheney were the drivers of his tyranny.
By the way sorry to see that a roscommon team lost to a sligo team at the weekend, now if a Mayo team were in that position it would have been different.

Interesting enough programme. Hope this and the other programmes on the various media channels will finally put paid to this "myth" being pedalled by the likes of Kevin Myers and Myles Dungan about this "forgotten sacrifice" and the "betrayal" of this sacrifice by the Irish State. The Irish in WW1 imo have gotten saturation coverage in the recent weeks and fair enough I suppose.

However, it is still left to TG4 to show the really contentious historical documentaries without the political spin which imo attaches itself to these WW1 "documentaries".
I'm afraid that I will remain somewhat sceptical of this type of programme until the likes of Myers,Dudley Edwards etc cast a non fawning eye on the Dublin Fusiliers, Connaught Rangers, the 36th Ulster Division etc and their actions. I doubt that you will hear Machine Gunners in WW1 referred to as psycopaths and sadists or any unmarried WW1 veterans as closet homosexuals as Irish insurgents have been labelled in the past. Until this happens I'm afraid that I will not buy into this type of programme uncritically.

My father's 2 uncles fought for Britian in WW1 I would like to point out.

Quote from: mannix on November 12, 2008, 11:48:50 AM

By the way sorry to see that a roscommon team lost to a sligo team at the weekend, now if a Mayo team were in that position it would have been different.

And I'm equally sorry that Mayo have a Roscommon team as their County Champions  :D ;D

Canalman - you're spot on there with your comments and the fawning of Myers etc over British Army Regiments named after Irish Provinces.

No relatins of mine ever fought for the British Empire thank God.

sounds very interesting, anyone know if it will be repeated? radio kerry had an interesting discussion on kerryman who fought in ww1 yesterday - loads of them including john joe sheehys (an ira leader killed during the civil war) brother who died in the war.

Quote from: magickingdom on November 12, 2008, 06:59:39 PM
sounds very interesting, anyone know if it will be repeated? radio kerry had an interesting discussion on kerryman who fought in ww1 yesterday - loads of them including john joe sheehys (an ira leader killed during the civil war) brother who died in the war.

RTE don't seem to be repeating it  ::) Have checked the web and sky +

Quote from: Gnevin on November 12, 2008, 07:51:17 PM

Quote from: magickingdom on November 12, 2008, 06:59:39 PM
sounds very interesting, anyone know if it will be repeated? radio kerry had an interesting discussion on kerryman who fought in ww1 yesterday - loads of them including john joe sheehys (an ira leader killed during the civil war) brother who died in the war.

RTE don't seem to be repeating it  ::) Have checked the web and sky +

you will get it online from rte.ie/1918

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 07:53:20 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 12, 2008, 07:51:17 PM

Quote from: magickingdom on November 12, 2008, 06:59:39 PM
sounds very interesting, anyone know if it will be repeated? radio kerry had an interesting discussion on kerryman who fought in ww1 yesterday - loads of them including john joe sheehys (an ira leader killed during the civil war) brother who died in the war.

RTE don't seem to be repeating it  ::) Have checked the web and sky +

you will get it online from rte.ie/1918

Was their and didn't see it . Maybe I'm just a little blind at the moment .Can you provide a direct link?

Revisionism at its most transparent, designed to change perceptions in the Country and facilitate our future entry into NATO

Quote from: Pangurban on November 12, 2008, 08:28:56 PM
Revisionism at its most transparent, designed to change perceptions in the Country and facilitate our future entry into NATO

your comments are  ignorant and pathetic disservice to the memory of these men and women .

Quote from: Gnevin on November 12, 2008, 08:34:46 PM

Quote from: Pangurban on November 12, 2008, 08:28:56 PM
Revisionism at its most transparent, designed to change perceptions in the Country and facilitate our future entry into NATO

your comments are  ignorant and pathetic disservice to the memory of these men and women .

i second that. take your head out of the sand Pangurban. with out these men the war could have been lost!

gnevin/tankie - what is with this sudden obsession to remember Ireland's war dead?

For the record G.Nevin my Granfather fought at the Somme in the WW1 and was badly wounded, ending up as a POW. I had 2 uncles who served during WW2, one missing in action, never recovered. All three were there for economic reasons, as were a lot of Irishmen at the time. They had no delusion that they were advancing the cause of freedom or democracy, in Ireland or anywhere else. I respect the memory of all the Men who fought and fell, thats why i find it so objectionable that they are being used now as they were then, to advance other peoples agendas. The only cause worth advancing is peace not militarism. Buy a Poppy, not the propaganda

can we give up remembering them after the 100 anniversary? its a pain in the hole getting reminded about it every year and its not the only war that ever happened. there are german citizens that have no blame whatsoever getting reminded of this every year. whats that about? people should move on

Sure do ye not know it's only us Irish Nationalistic types who "should move on" or "show maturity" and forget the past ( apart from those bits of the past where we fought FOR the Brits - for whom it's allowed to keep remembering their past).

Quote from: Pangurban on November 12, 2008, 09:23:40 PM
For the record G.Nevin my Granfather fought at the Somme in the WW1 and was badly wounded, ending up as a POW. I had 2 uncles who served during WW2, one missing in action, never recovered. All three were there for economic reasons, as were a lot of Irishmen at the time. They had no delusion that they were advancing the cause of freedom or democracy, in Ireland or anywhere else. I respect the memory of all the Men who fought and fell, thats why i find it so objectionable that they are being used now as they were then, to advance other peoples agendas. The only cause worth advancing is peace not militarism. Buy a Poppy, not the propaganda

Well that an entirely different spin than your original comments .

Quote from: magickingdom on November 12, 2008, 09:29:53 PM
can we give up remembering them after the 100 anniversary? its a pain in the hole getting reminded about it every year and its not the only war that ever happened. there are german citizens that have no blame whatsoever getting reminded of this every year. whats that about? people should move on

Forget your pass and be doomed to for ever repeat it ! Remembrance day is about more than WW1.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2008, 10:14:06 PM
Sure do ye not know it's only us Irish Nationalistic types who "should move on" or "show maturity" and forget the past ( apart from those bits of the past where we fought FOR the Brits - for whom it's allowed to keep remembering their past).

What are you talking about? A Irish day of Remembrance should remember all who died for Ireland .  This isn't about "the brits"

Quote from: Gnevin on November 12, 2008, 10:31:46 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2008, 10:14:06 PM
Sure do ye not know it's only us Irish Nationalistic types who "should move on" or "show maturity" and forget the past ( apart from those bits of the past where we fought FOR the Brits - for whom it's allowed to keep remembering their past).

What are you talking about? A Irish day of Remembrance should remember all who died for Ireland .  This isn't about "the brits"

Most of these men did not go off to fight for the 'Brits', they went to fight for freedom, the promise of home rule and many other reasons. Irish independence would have been worth nothing if the dictators had of won the war!

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:02:38 PM
Most of these men did not go off to fight for the 'Brits', they went to fight for freedom, the promise of home rule and many other reasons. Irish independence would have been worth nothing if the dictators had of won the war!

Yes, they were brainwashed.

Britain couldn't tolerate the threat to her 'empire' of a rapidly rising unified Germany -- German industrial output exceeded that of Britain's for the first time just before WWI, and Germany's maritime power, and mercantilie trading strength were also in the ascendent, all of which represented casus belli for the Brits, nothing more. Of course, they declared war on the pretext of an Archduke (Ferdinand) having been assassiinated in Sarajevo (in the first instance), and to protect 'Small Nations', and how anyone could buy that line I'm not quite sure (since she had been denying self-determination to a small nation on her doorstep for over 700 years at that point, a small nation that had a tradtion, language and history much older than her own). Of course, idiots like Redmond didn't stop to think for a minute of the cruel irony, but it was pointed out to him at the time by Connolly, amongst others.

WWI led to WWII, in that such was the punitive nature of the reparations levied against Germany, and all Germans, in the aftermath of WWI, that the perfect conditions for the rise of an animal like Hitler were laid. And Hitler duly did rise, and WWII duly did follow.

So, those who fought for Britain in WWI were fighting to protect her 'empire', although I would accept that this was unwittingly so for 99% of those Irish who picked up arms on Britain's behalf, and for whatever exoneration they might have there is none for the political leaders, fools.

See, never mentioned the north once *.

* Only to point that out.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:22:28 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:02:38 PM
Most of these men did not go off to fight for the 'Brits', they went to fight for freedom, the promise of home rule and many other reasons. Irish independence would have been worth nothing if the dictators had of won the war!

Yes, they were brainwashed.

Britain couldn't tolerate the threat to her 'empire' of a rapidly rising unified Germany -- German industrial output exceed that of Britain's for the first time just before WWI, and Germany's maritime power, and mercantilie trading strength were also in the ascendent, all of which represented casus belli for the Brits, nothing more. Of course, they declared war on the pretext of an Archduke (Ferdinand) having been assassiinated in Sarajevo in the first instance), and to protect 'Small Nations', and how anyone could buy that line I'm not quite sure (since she had been denying self-determination to a small nation on her doorstep for over 700 years at that point, a small nation that had a tradtion, language and history much older than her own). Of course, idiots like Redmond didn't stop to think for a minute of the cruel irony, but it was pointed out to him at the time by Connolly, amongst others.

WWI led to WWII, in that such was the punitive nature of the reparations levied against Germany, and all Germans, in the aftermath of WWI, that the perfect conditions for the rise of an animal like Hitler were laid. And Hitler duly did rise, and WWII duly did follow.

So, those who fought for Britain in WWI were fighting to protect her 'empire', although I would accept that this was unwittingly so for 99% of those Irish who picked up arms on Britain's behalf, and for whatever exoneration they might have there is none for the political leaders, fools.

See, never mentioned the north once *.

* Only to point that out.

hmmm.. sounds like somebody else has been brain washed!!!!!!!!!

Someone should tell the rest of the world that they were fight for the British empire in WWI.

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:27:22 PM
hmmm.. sounds like somebody else has been brain washed!!!!!!!!!

Someone should tell the rest of the world that they were fight for the British empire in WWI.

OK then, you tell me exactly why the First World War started.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:30:55 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:27:22 PM
hmmm.. sounds like somebody else has been brain washed!!!!!!!!!

Someone should tell the rest of the world that they were fight for the British empire in WWI.

OK then, you tell me exactly why the First World War started.

Your original post is that ridiculous I wouldnt bother having a discussion with you. I recommend reading a bit more on WWI though and maybe read a bit more about the Irish that gave their live for freedom in the name of Ireland in that war.

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:36:33 PM
Your original post is that ridiculous I wouldnt bother having a discussion with you. I recommend reading a bit more on WWI though and maybe read a bit more about the Irish that gave their live for freedom in the name of Ireland in that war.

Nice try, but you can't hide your woeful ignorance as easily as that. If my first post was so ridiculous it scarcely merited comment from you in the first instance  :P

The truth hurts.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:22:28 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:02:38 PM
Most of these men did not go off to fight for the 'Brits', they went to fight for freedom, the promise of home rule and many other reasons. Irish independence would have been worth nothing if the dictators had of won the war!

Yes, they were brainwashed.

Britain couldn't tolerate the threat to her 'empire' of a rapidly rising unified Germany -- German industrial output exceed that of Britain's for the first time just before WWI, and Germany's maritime power, and mercantilie trading strength were also in the ascendent, all of which represented casus belli for the Brits, nothing more. Of course, they declared war on the pretext of an Archduke (Ferdinand) having been assassiinated in Sarajevo in the first instance), and to protect 'Small Nations', and how anyone could buy that line I'm not quite sure (since she had been denying self-determination to a small nation on her doorstep for over 700 years at that point, a small nation that had a tradtion, language and history much older than her own). Of course, idiots like Redmond didn't stop to think for a minute of the cruel irony, but it was pointed out to him at the time by Connolly, amongst others.

WWI led to WWII, in that such was the punitive nature of the reparations levied against Germany, and all Germans, in the aftermath of WWI, that the perfect conditions for the rise of an animal like Hitler were laid. And Hitler duly did rise, and WWII duly did follow.

So, those who fought for Britain in WWI were fighting to protect her 'empire', although I would accept that this was unwittingly so for 99% of those Irish who picked up arms on Britain's behalf, and for whatever exoneration they might have there is none for the political leaders, fools.

See, never mentioned the north once *.

* Only to point that out.

Remember the heroes
how bravely they fought .
Think not of the fools who
Lead them to die.
Nor the leaders of empires
for whom war was but a game .
Remember they died and
fought and peace have you and I.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:37:56 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:36:33 PM
Your original post is that ridiculous I wouldnt bother having a discussion with you. I recommend reading a bit more on WWI though and maybe read a bit more about the Irish that gave their live for freedom in the name of Ireland in that war.

Nice try, but you can't hide your woeful ignorance as easily as that. If my first post was so ridiculous it scarcely merited comment from you in the first instance  :P

The truth hurts.

So you say:

QuoteYes, they were brainwashed.

Britain couldn't tolerate the threat to her 'empire' of a rapidly rising unified Germany -- German industrial output exceed that of Britain's for the first time just before WWI, and Germany's maritime power, and mercantilie trading strength were also in the ascendent, all of which represented casus belli for the Brits, nothing more. Of course, they declared war on the pretext of an Archduke (Ferdinand) having been assassiinated in Sarajevo in the first instance), and to protect 'Small Nations', and how anyone could buy that line I'm not quite sure (since she had been denying self-determination to a small nation on her doorstep for over 700 years at that point, a small nation that had a tradtion, language and history much older than her own). Of course, idiots like Redmond didn't stop to think for a minute of the cruel irony, but it was pointed out to him at the time by Connolly, amongst others.

WWI led to WWII, in that such was the punitive nature of the reparations levied against Germany, and all Germans, in the aftermath of WWI, that the perfect conditions for the rise of an animal like Hitler were laid. And Hitler duly did rise, and WWII duly did follow.

So, those who fought for Britain in WWI were fighting to protect her 'empire', although I would accept that this was unwittingly so for 99% of those Irish who picked up arms on Britain's behalf, and for whatever exoneration they might have there is none for the political leaders, fools.

The last line is what gets me most, are you telling me we should have hoped that the Allies lost the war?

Also do you have a link that states this is why the world went to war?

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:46:25 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:37:56 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:36:33 PM
Your original post is that ridiculous I wouldnt bother having a discussion with you. I recommend reading a bit more on WWI though and maybe read a bit more about the Irish that gave their live for freedom in the name of Ireland in that war.

Nice try, but you can't hide your woeful ignorance as easily as that. If my first post was so ridiculous it scarcely merited comment from you in the first instance  :P

The truth hurts.

So you say:

QuoteYes, they were brainwashed.

Britain couldn't tolerate the threat to her 'empire' of a rapidly rising unified Germany -- German industrial output exceed that of Britain's for the first time just before WWI, and Germany's maritime power, and mercantilie trading strength were also in the ascendent, all of which represented casus belli for the Brits, nothing more. Of course, they declared war on the pretext of an Archduke (Ferdinand) having been assassiinated in Sarajevo in the first instance), and to protect 'Small Nations', and how anyone could buy that line I'm not quite sure (since she had been denying self-determination to a small nation on her doorstep for over 700 years at that point, a small nation that had a tradtion, language and history much older than her own). Of course, idiots like Redmond didn't stop to think for a minute of the cruel irony, but it was pointed out to him at the time by Connolly, amongst others.

WWI led to WWII, in that such was the punitive nature of the reparations levied against Germany, and all Germans, in the aftermath of WWI, that the perfect conditions for the rise of an animal like Hitler were laid. And Hitler duly did rise, and WWII duly did follow.

So, those who fought for Britain in WWI were fighting to protect her 'empire', although I would accept that this was unwittingly so for 99% of those Irish who picked up arms on Britain's behalf, and for whatever exoneration they might have there is none for the political leaders, fools.

The last line is what gets me most, are you telling me we should have hoped that the Allies lost the war?

Also do you have a link that states this is why the world went to war?

Yes, and I also say that those who llifted arms thought they were doing the right thing. Well, if the Germans had won WWI, there never would have been a Hitler, Ireland would probably have been completely liberated, and 5 million Jews would not have been killed, not to mention the carnage of WWII.

How can you be so enthusiastic about the poppies and WWI (and WWII) when you don't know about the factors that led to the outbreak of that war?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:52:58 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:46:25 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 12, 2008, 11:37:56 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:36:33 PM
Your original post is that ridiculous I wouldnt bother having a discussion with you. I recommend reading a bit more on WWI though and maybe read a bit more about the Irish that gave their live for freedom in the name of Ireland in that war.

Nice try, but you can't hide your woeful ignorance as easily as that. If my first post was so ridiculous it scarcely merited comment from you in the first instance  :P

The truth hurts.

So you say:

QuoteYes, they were brainwashed.

Britain couldn't tolerate the threat to her 'empire' of a rapidly rising unified Germany -- German industrial output exceed that of Britain's for the first time just before WWI, and Germany's maritime power, and mercantilie trading strength were also in the ascendent, all of which represented casus belli for the Brits, nothing more. Of course, they declared war on the pretext of an Archduke (Ferdinand) having been assassiinated in Sarajevo in the first instance), and to protect 'Small Nations', and how anyone could buy that line I'm not quite sure (since she had been denying self-determination to a small nation on her doorstep for over 700 years at that point, a small nation that had a tradtion, language and history much older than her own). Of course, idiots like Redmond didn't stop to think for a minute of the cruel irony, but it was pointed out to him at the time by Connolly, amongst others.

WWI led to WWII, in that such was the punitive nature of the reparations levied against Germany, and all Germans, in the aftermath of WWI, that the perfect conditions for the rise of an animal like Hitler were laid. And Hitler duly did rise, and WWII duly did follow.

So, those who fought for Britain in WWI were fighting to protect her 'empire', although I would accept that this was unwittingly so for 99% of those Irish who picked up arms on Britain's behalf, and for whatever exoneration they might have there is none for the political leaders, fools.

The last line is what gets me most, are you telling me we should have hoped that the Allies lost the war?

Also do you have a link that states this is why the world went to war?

Yes, and I also say that those who llifted arms thought they were doing the right thing. Well, if the Germans had won WWI, there never would have been a Hitler, Ireland would probably have been completely liberated, and 5 million Jews would not have been killed, not to mention the carnage of WWII.

How can you be so enthusiastic about the poppies and WWI (and WWII) when you don't know about the factors that led to the outbreak of that war?

So you wanted the Allies to lose in the hope Ireland may have been free but yet the rest of the world would not have been....... hmmmm

You really cannot say any of that line is true. There is no reason to believe that Ireland would have been left untouched as it was still part of britain and who is the say that there would not have been a second world war but this time started by the allies trying to take back their freedom.

Quote from: Pangurban on Today at 09:23:40 PM
For the record G.Nevin my Granfather fought at the Somme in the WW1 and was badly wounded, ending up as a POW. I had 2 uncles who served during WW2, one missing in action, never recovered. All three were there for economic reasons, as were a lot of Irishmen at the time. They had no delusion that they were advancing the cause of freedom or democracy, in Ireland or anywhere else. I respect the memory of all the Men who fought and fell, thats why i find it so objectionable that they are being used now as they were then, to advance other peoples agendas. The only cause worth advancing is peace not militarism. Buy a Poppy, not the propag

G.Nevin.
Well that an entirely different spin than your original comments.

No its not,i am making exactly the same point

I removed the last topic! post here if you wish that the Allies lost the war.

Tankie, the small batch of Irishmen who joined the British Army had no influence of note in winning WW2.
WW2 was won by the Soviet Union, former Yugoslavia and financed by  the economic might of the USA. Britian's role was peripheral in the visceral fiight to the end between Fascism and Communism on the Eastern Front. A bugbear of mine has always been the downplaying of "Yugoslavia's" role in the war which meant that at no stage did the Axis forces ever have more men fighting the British and Americans in France/Belgium/Holland than were fighting the Partisans there.

To say that by casting a non fawning eye on the role of the Irish in the British armed forces in WW2 means that you wanted an Axis victory is imo nuts and very drama queenish.

Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2008, 11:00:56 AM
Tankie, the small batch of Irishmen who joined the British Army had no influence of note in winning WW2.
WW2 was won by the Soviet Union, former Yugoslavia and financed by  the economic might of the USA. Britian's role was peripheral in the visceral fiight to the end between Fascism and Communism on the Eastern Front. A bugbear of mine has always been the downplaying of "Yugoslavia's" role in the war which meant that at no stage did the Axis forces ever have more men fighting the British and Americans in France/Belgium/Holland than were fighting the Partisans there.

To say that by casting a non fawning eye on the role of the Irish in the British armed forces in WW2 means that you wanted an Axis victory is imo nuts and very drama queenish.

So Britian's War in Africa was peripheral  too the out come? Britian maintaining of a western front was peripheral  ? Britain acting a bridge head to act Europe had was peripheral  .Britians war in Asia was peripheral  ? ::) Catch a grip would you

Nine out of 10 German soldiers killed during WWII died on the Eastern front ... Winston Churchill no more won the war than that dog who does the insurance ads ... in fact, if Hitler had not stopped the panzers for two days on the outskirts of Dunkirk what was already a humiliation for the british (which their typical revisionism turned into a glorious episode) would have ended in complete and utter defeat in 1940 ... the Soviet Union killed the most enemy troops and the Soviet Union suffered the highest number of casualties

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 11:10:53 AM

Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2008, 11:00:56 AM
Tankie, the small batch of Irishmen who joined the British Army had no influence of note in winning WW2.
WW2 was won by the Soviet Union, former Yugoslavia and financed by  the economic might of the USA. Britian's role was peripheral in the visceral fiight to the end between Fascism and Communism on the Eastern Front. A bugbear of mine has always been the downplaying of "Yugoslavia's" role in the war which meant that at no stage did the Axis forces ever have more men fighting the British and Americans in France/Belgium/Holland than were fighting the Partisans there.

To say that by casting a non fawning eye on the role of the Irish in the British armed forces in WW2 means that you wanted an Axis victory is imo nuts and very drama queenish.

So Britian's War in Africa was peripheral  too the out come? Britian maintaining of a western front was peripheral  ? Britain acting a bridge head to act Europe had was peripheral  .Britians war in Asia was peripheral  ? ::) Catch a grip would you

North Africa, Asia, hmmmmm British colonies........  ::)

Lads we are talking about WWI and to say any soldier didnt have an effect is wrong!

Quote from: Tankie on November 13, 2008, 11:27:56 AM
Lads we are talking about WWI and to say any soldier didnt have an effect is wrong!

Ah FFS, do you seriously think that sending thousands of men out to get slaughtered (cannon fodder mown down by machine guns and blown apart by artillery) just to gain 16 metres of a field in northern France or Belgium, only to lose it the next day, then repeat the process again!

It was bloody murder and the aristocracy/upper classes should be tried for war crimes - Haig was as bad a war criminal as some of the people tried since.

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 13, 2008, 11:19:13 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 11:10:53 AM

Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2008, 11:00:56 AM
Tankie, the small batch of Irishmen who joined the British Army had no influence of note in winning WW2.
WW2 was won by the Soviet Union, former Yugoslavia and financed by  the economic might of the USA. Britian's role was peripheral in the visceral fiight to the end between Fascism and Communism on the Eastern Front. A bugbear of mine has always been the downplaying of "Yugoslavia's" role in the war which meant that at no stage did the Axis forces ever have more men fighting the British and Americans in France/Belgium/Holland than were fighting the Partisans there.

To say that by casting a non fawning eye on the role of the Irish in the British armed forces in WW2 means that you wanted an Axis victory is imo nuts and very drama queenish.

So Britian's War in Africa was peripheral  too the out come? Britian maintaining of a western front was peripheral  ? Britain acting a bridge head to act Europe had was peripheral  .Britians war in Asia was peripheral  ? ::) Catch a grip would you

North Africa, Asia, hmmmmm British colonies........  ::)

What's your point? Men for the UK fought their too and that was the way of the world then .

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 13, 2008, 11:39:18 AM

Quote from: Tankie on November 13, 2008, 11:27:56 AM
Lads we are talking about WWI and to say any soldier didnt have an effect is wrong!

Ah FFS, do you seriously think that sending thousands of men out to get slaughtered (cannon fodder mown down by machine guns and blown apart by artillery) just to gain 16 metres of a field in northern France or Belgium, only to lose it the next day, then repeat the process again!

It was bloody murder and the aristocracy/upper classes should be tried for war crimes - Haig was as bad a war criminal as some of the people tried since.

It was a shocking war and a war of numbers and this is why every man should be remebered as they played a part. Its sad to think that the more men you had to die the longer you could hold out!!!

Some good posts on here, FOSB in particular. It is necessary to challenge the revisionism sweeping this part of history. Letting Kevin Myers at something like this is pointless. The man would argue black is white with his own shadow as they both try to eat each other.

How come nobody ever invades Switzerland?

Quote from: Main Street on November 13, 2008, 12:12:30 PM
How come nobody ever invades Switzerland?

Because of the knives..............

/Jim.

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 13, 2008, 12:11:35 PM
Some good posts on here, FOSB in particular. It is necessary to challenge the revisionism sweeping this part of history. Letting Kevin Myers at something like this is pointless. The man would argue black is white with his own shadow as they both try to eat each other.

I dont think there is much revisionism going on in the sence of changing facts but aswell as the men who fought in 1916 we should equally remember the men who fought for Ireland in WWI. Kevin Myers is a tool but guys like FOSB aint much better as they are just total opposites to Myers.

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 13, 2008, 12:11:35 PM
Some good posts on here, FOSB in particular. It is necessary to challenge the revisionism sweeping this part of history. Letting Kevin Myers at something like this is pointless. The man would argue black is white with his own shadow as they both try to eat each other.

The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

Whats the deal with Tankie and Gnevins crusade about the WWI and WW2 dead?
This is at least the third thread between them (and Gnevin had the nerve to say Tony deserved his ban for opening multiple threads).

Gnevin even suggested people who didnt post on one of the threads dont care by noting another non related thread had more replies.

We get it lads, you remember them and are great lads for that, big pat on the back.
But one thread will do nicely.

So will ye stop talking smack, thats whack to the max.   :)

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 13, 2008, 12:11:35 PM
Some good posts on here, FOSB in particular. It is necessary to challenge the revisionism sweeping this part of history. Letting Kevin Myers at something like this is pointless. The man would argue black is white with his own shadow as they both try to eat each other.

The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

So how come we all knew about them so?

Quote from: Tankie on November 12, 2008, 11:02:38 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 12, 2008, 10:31:46 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2008, 10:14:06 PM
Sure do ye not know it's only us Irish Nationalistic types who "should move on" or "show maturity" and forget the past ( apart from those bits of the past where we fought FOR the Brits - for whom it's allowed to keep remembering their past).

What are you talking about? A Irish day of Remembrance should remember all who died for Ireland .  This isn't about "the brits"

Most of these men did not go off to fight for the 'Brits', they went to fight for freedom, the promise of home rule and many other reasons. Irish independence would have been worth nothing if the dictators had of won the war!

" Irish independence would have been worth nothing if the dictators had of won the war! "

" Irish independence " - Six of our counties are still under occupation.

" if the dictators had of won the war " - Unfortunately, one set of dictators did win the war and continued to deny self-determination to a small nation they ruthlessly occupied.

Quote from: Donagh on November 13, 2008, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

Most of these men did not go out to fight for a foreign army, they went to fight for the cause of freedom and the freedom of Ireland. They did not fight for a British cause, they fought for and Irish cause. As I said before without these men the war could have been lost and Irish independance would have been worthless. People in Ireland have a tendancy to forget that without armies fighting foreign wars that we opt out of Ireland may not be the place it is now.

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 11:15:42 AM
Nine out of 10 German soldiers killed during WWII died on the Eastern front ... Winston Churchill no more won the war than that dog who does the insurance ads ... in fact, if Hitler had not stopped the panzers for two days on the outskirts of Dunkirk what was already a humiliation for the british (which their typical revisionism turned into a glorious episode) would have ended in complete and utter defeat in 1940 ... the Soviet Union killed the most enemy troops and the Soviet Union suffered the highest number of casualties

" Winston Churchill no more won the war than that dog who does the insurance ads " FANTASTIC red hander  ;D

Quote from: Donagh on November 13, 2008, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

I have no problems with Irishmen fighting in foreign armies - the names of three Irish generals who fought for Napoleon against the English are inscibed on the Arc De Triomphe - what I do have a problem with is Irishmen fighting in the army of the country that enslaved their people ...

S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: Donagh on November 13, 2008, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

I have no problems with Irishmen fighting in foreign armies - the names of three Irish generals who fought for Napoleon against the English are inscibed on the Arc De Triomphe - what I do have a problem with is Irishmen fighting in the army of the country that enslaved their people ...

S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

sure u boys in Britain would know more about Royal Visits than us  ;)

But on a serious note this has nothing to do with British rule, these men fought for Ireland as proud Irish men and that should not be forgotten.

Quote from: Tankie on November 13, 2008, 02:35:26 PM

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: Donagh on November 13, 2008, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

I have no problems with Irishmen fighting in foreign armies - the names of three Irish generals who fought for Napoleon against the English are inscibed on the Arc De Triomphe - what I do have a problem with is Irishmen fighting in the army of the country that enslaved their people ...

S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

sure u boys in Britain would know more about Royal Visits than us  ;)

But on a serious note this has nothing to do with British rule, these men fought for Ireland as proud Irish men and that should not be forgotten.

Us abandoned Irish in the occupied six wouldn't have a problem remembering them if all the associated baggage wasn't shovelled down our throats by bigots up here.

BTW tankie, any of your famous predictions about what the Dubs are going to do to us at Croker at the end of January? :P

Britain very cynically and skilfully manipulated her naked belligerence and aggression in WWI, in the aftermath of WWII in particular, into something that was worthy of being remembered, recalled and fawned over, ad nauseam; the emotional blackmail, the tugging of heartstrings, the maudlin memories of the 'heroes'. All this, of course, was nothing more than a ruse and a smokescreen by Britain to bury her own blood-soaked culpability and most assured guilt in the greatest human catastrophe and carnage that man has ever been responsible for in the history of this planet. Trouble was and is, there were more than a few Poppy-Paddies who've been duped by it all.

An irony, of course, is that had it not been for the brave Irishmen and women who rose up in insurrection while Britain was off killing daddies for the empire, her empire would have emerged more or less intact from WWI. As it transpired, however, Irish rebels had made sure that the unravelling of that empire was now irreversible, and though she would hang on till the last trappings and vestiges of empire were wrenched from her bloody grasp, it was truly in terminal decline.

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:39:20 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 13, 2008, 02:35:26 PM

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: Donagh on November 13, 2008, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

I have no problems with Irishmen fighting in foreign armies - the names of three Irish generals who fought for Napoleon against the English are inscibed on the Arc De Triomphe - what I do have a problem with is Irishmen fighting in the army of the country that enslaved their people ...

S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

sure u boys in Britain would know more about Royal Visits than us  ;)

But on a serious note this has nothing to do with British rule, these men fought for Ireland as proud Irish men and that should not be forgotten.

Us abandoned Irish in the occupied six wouldn't have a problem remembering them if all the associated baggage wasn't shovelled down our throats by bigots up here.

BTW tankie, any of your famous predictions about what the Dubs are going to do to us at Croker at the end of January? :P

Without question the unionist have highjacked the Irish fight in WWI but i think it may be time to look at our own history and at these IRISH men who went to fight in a world war not for Britain but for Ireland and freedom. our rememberance should have nothing to do with Britain and I am in no way suggesting that we remember all the British soldiers lost in combat, I would just like to remember these brave Irish men who like the men of 1916 - 1922 and all wars gave their live for Ireland.

These men did not fight for an empire, they fought for what they believed was right and as Irishmen.

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2008, 01:54:35 PM
Whats the deal with Tankie and Gnevins crusade about the WWI and WW2 dead?
This is at least the third thread between them (and Gnevin had the nerve to say Tony deserved his ban for opening multiple threads).

Gnevin even suggested people who didnt post on one of the threads dont care by noting another non related thread had more replies.

Yeah because 1 thread on a TV program , 1 on the Irish Poppy and 1 on a general question are all the same and sure wee tony only opened the odd 600 threads . Yeah it's the exact same situation aright . ::)

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:39:20 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 13, 2008, 02:35:26 PM

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: Donagh on November 13, 2008, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
The revisionism happened in the years after the war when these men where brush under the carpet and the nation attempted to forget them

In what way were they brushed under the carpet? In many ways they and their families were better looked after than those who stayed behind, so why should the Irish state remember those who chose to fight in foreign armies?

I have no problems with Irishmen fighting in foreign armies - the names of three Irish generals who fought for Napoleon against the English are inscibed on the Arc De Triomphe - what I do have a problem with is Irishmen fighting in the army of the country that enslaved their people ...

S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

sure u boys in Britain would know more about Royal Visits than us  ;)

But on a serious note this has nothing to do with British rule, these men fought for Ireland as proud Irish men and that should not be forgotten.

Believe it or not the North is not the centre of the world .You lot up North couldn't agree what day follows Thursday .

Gnevin & Tankie, if the heroes of 1916 were not fighting against the British, when your heroes were off fighting with the British, you'd probably still be under the yoke of empire, as (undoubtedly) loyal British subjects, badgering all and sundry to proudly parade their poppies to commemorate those who have consigned you to your eternal grovelling subservience!

Oh, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Verily!

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:31:05 PM
Gnevin & Tankie, if the heroes of 1916 were not fighting against the British, when your heroes were off fighting with the British, you'd probably still be under the yoke of empire, as (undoubtedly) loyal British subjects, badgering all and sundry to proudly parade their poppies to commemorate those who have consigned to your eternal grovelling subservience!

Oh, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Verily!

You mean like the heroes who where members of the Irish Volunteers and where asked by Redmond to go fight?
You mean like the heroes who believed like millions of young men across the world they where fighting for small nations to be free, nations like Ireland
You mean like the Irish in Canada , Australia and UK who where conscripted to fight ?

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 03:35:14 PM
You mean like the heroes who where members of the Irish Volunteers and where asked by Redmond to go fight?

Redmond duped them (and you), bastard.

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 03:35:14 PM
You mean like the heroes who believed like millions of young men across the world they where fighting for small nations to be free, nations like Ireland

And what about the small nation Ireland that Britain had denied self-expression and freedom to for over 700 years, whilst filling her warring ranks to the echo of that empty aim. You've been had (too).

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 03:35:14 PM
You mean like the Irish in Canada , Australia and UK who where conscripted to fight ?

Exactly, they hadn't much of a choice. None, in fact.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:31:05 PM
Gnevin & Tankie, if the heroes of 1916 were not fighting against the British, when your heroes were off fighting with the British, you'd probably still be under the yoke of empire, as (undoubtedly) loyal British subjects, badgering all and sundry to proudly parade their poppies to commemorate those who have consigned you to your eternal grovelling subservience!

Oh, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Verily!

The amount of revisionism this week is spectacular  - on both sides.

Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916. They were still on that course following the uprising, and the rebels were almost universally unpopular - until the executions - that was the tipping point.

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:31:05 PM
Gnevin & Tankie, if the heroes of 1916 were not fighting against the British, when your heroes were off fighting with the British, you'd probably still be under the yoke of empire, as (undoubtedly) loyal British subjects, badgering all and sundry to proudly parade their poppies to commemorate those who have consigned you to your eternal grovelling subservience!

Oh, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Verily!

you really are as bad as Myers when it comes to giving your view. These men fought for Ireland just like the men of 1916! you can like it to fighting for the british all you want but it wont change the facts that these men also gave their lives for Ireland as true Irish men.

What is the definition of a 'true Irisnman'?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:53:28 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Really, how so?

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 04:20:26 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:53:28 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Really, how so?

The Third Irish Home Rule Bill, which Asquith had tabled before the outbreak or WWI, was far from assured successful passage through Parliament (and there was no way the Lords were going to let it through, and witness the landing of a massive amount of weapons at Larne, in 1914, by the UVF with the collusion and connivance of the British forces ). Lloyd-George, who succeeded him in 1916, was openly hostile to the whole idea.

Quote from: Tankie on November 13, 2008, 04:11:05 PM
you really are as bad as Myers when it comes to giving your view. These men fought for Ireland just like the men of 1916! you can like it to fighting for the british all you want but it wont change the facts that these men also gave their lives for Ireland as true Irish men.

Give Prussia back to the Germans I say (it's not like Germany is that big of a nation)!

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 04:29:09 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 04:20:26 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:53:28 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Really, how so?

The Third Irish Home Rule Bill, which Asquith had tabled before the outbreak or WWI, was far from assured successful passage through Parliament (and there was no way the Lords were going to let it through, and witness the landing of a massive amount of weapons at Larne, in 1914, by the UVF with the collusion and connivance of the British forces ). Lloyd-George, who succeeded him in 1916, was openly hostile to the whole idea.

I don't think that constitutes me being totally wrong - the prevailing feeling at the time was for the parlimentary path towards home rule, but as events overtook that I guess we'll never know for sure. You'd have to admit it was the executions, rather than the rising itself, that set the scene for what would become the War of Independence? What followed that, with the Irish free State, was de facto home rule.

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 04:34:33 PM
You'd have to admit it was the executions, rather than the rising itself, that set the scene for what would become the War of Independence? What followed that, with the Irish free State, was de facto home rule.

Yes, it was Britain's blood-letting that swung public opinion inexorably against them. And it was partial de facto Home Rule.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 04:29:09 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 04:20:26 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:53:28 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Really, how so?

The Third Irish Home Rule Bill, which Asquith had tabled before the outbreak or WWI, was far from assured successful passage through Parliament (and there was no way the Lords were going to let it through, and witness the landing of a massive amount of weapons at Larne, in 1914, by the UVF with the collusion and connivance of the British forces ). Lloyd-George, who succeeded him in 1916, was openly hostile to the whole idea.

The Bill has passed and was postponed due the the war.

House of Commons passed?      Yes
House of Lords Passed?      No but overruled by Parliament Act
Royal Assent?      Yes
If defeated
Which House      House of Lords 3 times (overruled)
Which stage      -
Final vote      -
Date      1912, 1913, 1914 (overruled)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Home_Rule_Act#Attempted_implementation

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 05:05:11 PM
The Bill has passed and was postponed due the the war.

House of Commons passed?      Yes
House of Lords Passed?      No but overruled by Parliament Act
Royal Assent?      Yes
If defeated
Which House      House of Lords 3 times (overruled)
Which stage      -
Final vote      -
Date      1912, 1913, 1914 (overruled)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Home_Rule_Act#Attempted_implementation

Well, given how Britain had adhered religiously to her promises in the seven centuries of her (mis)rule in Ireland before, there's no doubt we could have had absolute cast-iron faith in her latest promise in 1916 (not)  :P

Connolly, Pearse, Ceannt, Mc Donagh, Mc Dermott, Clarke, Plunkett, Collins, etc., were of the time, and had the exact measure of the bona fides of perfidious Albion. I know where my faith would have lain.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 05:21:37 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 05:05:11 PM
The Bill has passed and was postponed due the the war.

House of Commons passed?      Yes
House of Lords Passed?      No but overruled by Parliament Act
Royal Assent?      Yes
If defeated
Which House      House of Lords 3 times (overruled)
Which stage      -
Final vote      -
Date      1912, 1913, 1914 (overruled)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Home_Rule_Act#Attempted_implementation

Well, given how Britain had adhered religiously to her promises in the seven centuries of her (mis)rule in Ireland before, there's no doubt we could have had absolute cast-iron faith in her latest promise in 1916 (not)  :P

Connolly, Pearse, Ceannt, Mc Donagh, Mc Dermott, Clarke, Plunkett, Collins, etc., were of the time, and had the exact measure of the bona fides of perfidious Albion. I know where my faith would have lain.

So your admit your where wrong , that's very big of you .

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:30:59 PM
S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

Redhander, please for the love of god, dont be fooled into thinking Tankie and Gnevins views are that of the average Dubliner. Theres a very noisy minority in the Myers mould alright, but despite their kicking and screaming, they are the minority.

No guarantee at all that this Home Rule Bill would be enacted at all. An election which returned the Conservatives would at least  have meant the rejigging if not the downright shelving of the bill, which was never enacted. Another "myth" to be debunked is this Home Rule "was on the Statute Books" anyway which the WW1 apologists regularly roll out. However, I am willing to concede that this Bill was cunningly framed as a sop to Nationalists with plenty of wriggleroom  for Unionism which can be interpereted any way you like. (An old Anglo ploy )

By the way lads, not all the Dubs are agreing with G Nevin and the others.

A very interesting thread here, lets hope it doesn't sink into personal abuse or anti Dublinism as usual.

Finally, imo there is no way a Republic could have been formed as soon as it was or the magnificent Bunreacht na hÉireann enacted under the 1913 Home Rule bill.

the british armys history is littered with murder and mayham around the world, the british empire was build by brute force and appalling crimes against humanity with plenty of irish up to their necks in it and they 'win' ww1 and ww2 on the backs of the yanks and i'm supposed to remember with fondness the irishmen that died fighting with them? i feel sorry they died and they were as irish as the liffey but i dont particularly care to be honest. i have no problem with other people remembering them with pride but it means very little to me. as for national commemorations the proper place for that imo is in britian..

Quote from: magickingdom on November 13, 2008, 07:30:45 PM
the british armys history is littered with murder and mayham around the world, the british empire was build by brute force and appalling crimes against humanity with plenty of irish up to their necks in it and they 'win' ww1 and ww2 on the backs of the yanks and i'm supposed to remember with fondness the irishmen that died fighting with them? i feel sorry they died and they were as irish as the liffey but i dont particularly care to be honest. i have no problem with other people remembering them with pride but it means very little to me. as for national commemorations the proper place for that imo is in britian..

this is britian ;)
the Romans went about murdering but we dont hate the Italians

Quote from: milltown row on November 13, 2008, 07:44:29 PM

Quote from: magickingdom on November 13, 2008, 07:30:45 PM
the british armys history is littered with murder and mayham around the world, the british empire was build by brute force and appalling crimes against humanity with plenty of irish up to their necks in it and they 'win' ww1 and ww2 on the backs of the yanks and i'm supposed to remember with fondness the irishmen that died fighting with them? i feel sorry they died and they were as irish as the liffey but i dont particularly care to be honest. i have no problem with other people remembering them with pride but it means very little to me. as for national commemorations the proper place for that imo is in britian..

this is britian ;)
the Romans went about murdering but we dont hate the Italians

the italians are too good looking to hate ;)

yeah the Fu*kers did it with style

It's strange that tankie and gnevin seem more worried about remembering Irish men fighting for foreign armies than they do remembering the Irish men fighting for the freedom they enjoy today.

are you a slave POG? very dramatic.

Whilst the debate rages on, here is some music to listen to.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp-OlpffDWw (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp-OlpffDWw)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nDit0DyItsM (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nDit0DyItsM)

Am I reading Nevin's and Tankie's posts right -
The Irish people who fought in the Brit Army in World War One were fighting for Ireland and Irish Freedom and thanks to them we are free today??
I must have been out of school the day they were doing the bit in the history Book where the Germans took over Ireland?

There's a few so and sos all over the Ros Herald this week dressed up in poppies remembering the Connaught Rangers. Surely they could have done it without the Effin Poppies. When are they going to commemorate Private Daly who was executed by the Brits in India because he protested about the Black/Tan atrocities?
Remeber lads the poppy commemorates them cnuts(B/Tans) too as well as the Paras who murdered Irish people in Derry.
Put  ;)that in ye're revisionist pipes !!

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 04:20:26 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:53:28 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Really, how so?

We have been on course for Independance for over 800 years. It'll be any day now I expect.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2008, 09:38:55 PM
Am I reading Nevin's and Tankie's posts right -
The Irish people who fought in the Brit Army in World War One were fighting for Ireland and Irish Freedom and thanks to them we are free today??
I must have been out of school the day they were doing the bit in the history Book where the Germans took over Ireland?

There's a few so and sos all over the Ros Herald this week dressed up in poppies remembering the Connaught Rangers. Surely they could have done it without the Effin Poppies. When are they going to commemorate Private Daly who was executed by the Brits in India because he protested about the Black/Tan atrocities?
Remeber lads the poppy commemorates them cnuts(B/Tans) too as well as the Paras who murdered Irish people in Derry.
Put  ;)that in ye're revisionist pipes !!

I very much doubt any of the Tans where Irish or the Paras in Derry. This about honouring our Irish dead not British

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2008, 08:30:59 PM
It's strange that tankie and gnevin seem more worried about remembering Irish men fighting for foreign armies than they do remembering the Irish men fighting for the freedom they enjoy today.

Where did you pull that load of bullshit out of ? ???

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2008, 08:30:59 PM
It's strange that tankie and gnevin seem more worried about remembering Irish men fighting for foreign armies than they do remembering the Irish men fighting for the freedom they enjoy today.

Who do i forget POG? I just believe that these men should be remembered like all of Irelands fallen!

Quote from: Zapatista on November 13, 2008, 09:47:23 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 04:20:26 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 03:53:28 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on November 13, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Let's face it, Ireland was on course for home rule within the commonwealth until Easter 1916.

Quite wrong, totally wrong, in fact.

Really, how so?

We have been on course for Independance for over 800 years. It'll be any day now I expect.

Not sure what that point has to do with my original one Zap? I only sought to inject a bit of realism. Prior to the Easter Rising Ireland had seemed to be on the path to something akin to dominion status within the commonwealth. The Rising itself, as a military exercise, was a disaster from beginning to end. As a PR exercise it was very damaging to Republicanism initially, with most commentary being along the lines that those who were told they were fighting for Irish self determination in WWI had been stabbed in the back. That was until the executions, which changed everything utterly, and hardened public opinion against Britain again, proving that Irishmen could not expect justice. With that also the attitude to those fighting on the front changed, but they were still comemerated by the state into the 30's, when the very deliberate acts to step out from Britain's shadow by Dev meant we chose to green our state apparatus - literally in some cases (repainting British postboxes)

It's just too easy from our stand point in history to believe the Rising was the rebirth of a nation, and the population were behind it on masse. If anything it was the executions afterwards.

As for independence, I don't think I made any points about that. I think most contributors here are of a similar mindset about that.

My point was that you can't trust the Brits to give anything. If the Brits thought it was in their interest to give home rule we would have had it. They wanted to partition the country and thats what they did. Unionism played a bigger part in home rule/partition than the rising did. Irish men were duped into fighting for Britain.

Quote from: Zapatista on November 14, 2008, 08:52:42 AM
My point was that you can't trust the Brits to give anything. If the Brits thought it was in their interest to give home rule we would have had it. They wanted to partition the country and thats what they did. Unionism played a bigger part in home rule/partition than the rising did. Irish men were duped into fighting for Britain.

lads this tread aint about trusting the Brits, its simply about Irish men that went out to fight for Ireland in WWI. The fact you say some of these were gighting for home rule it just shows the love for their country!

QuoteAs a PR exercise it was very damaging to Republicanism initially, with most commentary being along the lines that those who were told they were fighting for Irish self determination in WWI had been stabbed in the back.

That commentary was largely British as I'm fairly sure there weren't too many nationalist minded media outlets around that time. If the lads fighting in WWI were actually fighting for Irish Freedom as they believed they were then they would have had no issue with this. The problem was they were conned. It was all about preserving Britain's postion in the world.

These men should be remembered but not with the poppy. They were there for different reasons and all the more tragically they had been duped.

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 14, 2008, 09:25:32 AM

QuoteAs a PR exercise it was very damaging to Republicanism initially, with most commentary being along the lines that those who were told they were fighting for Irish self determination in WWI had been stabbed in the back.

That commentary was largely British as I'm fairly sure there weren't too many nationalist minded media outlets around that time. If the lads fighting in WWI were actually fighting for Irish Freedom as they believed they were then they would have had no issue with this. The problem was they were conned. It was all about preserving Britain's postion in the world.

These men should be remembered but not with the poppy. They were there for different reasons and all the more tragically they had been duped.

Nobody is really suggesting wearing a poppy, I think the main thing is that they are remembered properly which i dont believe they are at the moment.

Tankie,
There have been loads of documentaries and pages of newspaper coverage in the last few weeks about the Irish in WW1. Unfortunately imo they have been for too fawning and uncritical and penned/directed by individuals with a political axe to grind against Irish Nationalism. To say they have been ignored is plain wrong.
Saw 2 great doc's last week, one about WW1 Consciencious Objectors and another about the casualties on Armistice Day .Both were devoid of political spin and absolutely magnificent. RTÉ's  coverage imo is way behind such gems.

Behind every WW1 "commemoration" in Ireland is a not too subtle dig at Irish Nationalism and the very brave and pitifully armed Irishmen who took on the British Empire in the early part of the 20th century. The "official Ireland" line is that put forward by Dungan/Myers/Gay Byrne etc and imo is legitimately entitled to be critiqued.

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2008, 05:36:20 PM

Quote from: red hander on November 13, 2008, 02:30:59 PM
S'pose it's no surprise that it's jackeens arguing the point on here ... they'll be saying soon it's time for a new royal visit to what was the second city of the empire the last time some parasite from buckingham palace was paraded thru the streets there to accept the thanks of loyal dubliners for her hugely generous contribution to the famine fund 35 years earlier ... time to get them wee red, white abd blue flags outta the bottom drawers boys ;)

Redhander, please for the love of god, dont be fooled into thinking Tankie and Gnevins views are that of the average Dubliner. Theres a very noisy minority in the Myers mould alright, but despite their kicking and screaming, they are the minority.

No probs ... i know and appreciate the contribution many brave dubs played in the fight for Irish freedom ... a point a very good friend of mine from Ballymun never tires of reminding me of!

Quote from: Canalman on November 14, 2008, 09:55:45 AM


Behind every WW1 "commemoration" in Ireland is a not too subtle dig at Irish Nationalism and the very brave and pitifully armed Irishmen who took on the British Empire in the early part of the 20th century. The "official Ireland" line is that put forward by Dungan/Myers/Gay Byrne etc and imo is legitimately entitled to be critiqued.

So your saying you 90 years after the event ,you still expect people to pick sides. What dig are your referring too, I think your bending over backwards to be offended .

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 09:31:07 AM

Nobody is really suggesting wearing a poppy, I think the main thing is that they are remembered properly which i dont believe they are at the moment.

Define what you mean by properly?
Is it not being remembered? You give me the impression of someone who did not have a clue about the event until he turned on the tv.
The standard of history in Dublin schools is way behind what you'd get in a national school in Ulster.
Or how did you forget it all so fast?

We were taught the reasons why so many Irish joined the British Army.
No I never heard that that allied victory in WWI saved democracy or that there was actually a good side involved.
No we did not get taught about anything anecdotal or acts of heroism by Irish soldiers, just the brainless slaughter.
Many soldiers who did make it home joined the IRA.

Everything that was predicted by republicans who stayed at home, came to pass.
The significant events in our history happened at home. They are the events that have shaped our history.
Once a war on foreign fields drifts out of the living memory it shifts more into the history page memory and tv documentaries.

It would be nice to have a documentary about the Irish who fought in the US civil war and the Fenian invasion of Canada.
Maybe one on the Fenian who invented the submarine for the cause of Irish freedom.

Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2008, 10:23:19 AM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 09:31:07 AM

Nobody is really suggesting wearing a poppy, I think the main thing is that they are remembered properly which i dont believe they are at the moment.

Define what you mean by properly?
Is it not being remembered? You give me the impression of someone who did not have a clue about the event until he turned on the tv.
The standard of history in Dublin schools is way behind what you'd get in a national school in Ulster.
Or how did you forget it all so fast?

Thus why the Ulster poster didn't know his ass from his elbow in relation too the 3rd home rules bill. You'll find i posted the flag of Batallón de San Patrici
in the other thread .

Quote

We were taught the reasons why so many Irish joined the British Army.
No I never heard that that allied victory in WWI saved democracy or that there was actually a good side involved.
No we did not get taught about anything anecdotal or acts of heroism by Irish soldiers, just the brainless slaughter.
Many soldiers who did make it home joined the IRA.

Are you implying we didn't ? I'd love to hear the reasons you where taught.

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 05:28:07 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 05:21:37 PM

Well, given how Britain had adhered religiously to her promises in the seven centuries of her (mis)rule in Ireland before, there's no doubt we could have had absolute cast-iron faith in her latest promise in 1916 (not)  :P

Connolly, Pearse, Ceannt, Mc Donagh, Mc Dermott, Clarke, Plunkett, Collins, etc., were of the time, and had the exact measure of the bona fides of perfidious Albion. I know where my faith would have lain.

So your admit your where wrong , that's very big of you .

Huh?!... I wrote in the English language, what language were you reading?

And let's nail something here as well lads: the rebels of 1916 knew exactly what the British response to their efforts would be, and they also were fully aware that it was this (wholly disproportionate) response, which is the only thing British rule in Ireland is capable of, that would be the mechanism to sway public opinion fully behind them, i.e., only by their certain deaths would the momentum arise. How right they were.

And just for Gnevin & Tankie

Wear your Royal British Legion Poppy with Pride!

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 10:40:25 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2008, 05:28:07 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 13, 2008, 05:21:37 PM

Well, given how Britain had adhered religiously to her promises in the seven centuries of her (mis)rule in Ireland before, there's no doubt we could have had absolute cast-iron faith in her latest promise in 1916 (not)  :P

Connolly, Pearse, Ceannt, Mc Donagh, Mc Dermott, Clarke, Plunkett, Collins, etc., were of the time, and had the exact measure of the bona fides of perfidious Albion. I know where my faith would have lain.

So your admit your where wrong , that's very big of you .

Huh?!... I wrote in the English language, what language were you reading?

And let's nail something here as well lads: the rebels of 1916 knew exactly what the British response to their efforts would be, and they also were fully aware that it was this (wholly disproportionate) response, which is the only thing British rule in Ireland is capable of, that would be the mechanism to sway public opinion fully behind them, i.e., only by their certain deaths would the momentum arise. How right they were.

And just for Gnevin & Tankie

Wear your Royal British Legion Poppy with Pride!

Pathetic .

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:07:47 AM
Pathetic .

Erm... you have it in one!

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 14, 2008, 09:25:32 AM

QuoteAs a PR exercise it was very damaging to Republicanism initially, with most commentary being along the lines that those who were told they were fighting for Irish self determination in WWI had been stabbed in the back.

That commentary was largely British as I'm fairly sure there weren't too many nationalist minded media outlets around that time. If the lads fighting in WWI were actually fighting for Irish Freedom as they believed they were then they would have had no issue with this. The problem was they were conned. It was all about preserving Britain's postion in the world.

These men should be remembered but not with the poppy. They were there for different reasons and all the more tragically they had been duped.

Not into the Poppy thing myself Seanie, if people want to wear it fair enough, but it's not my bag, as I said I was just trying to put the thing in perspective.

As to the commentary, I'll take your word for it, but I seem to remember reading about the captives from the rising being booed and worse on their way to prison by the common folks of Dublin - obviously with many of their men folk away in the trenches.

Again perspectives are important, even watching the documentary the other night guys who considered themselves nationalist in the British army had obviously become "more British than British" in the way we see up North after the events of the rising.

As for duping, of course they were, as were the Unionists. And not just by the British - defend Catholic Belgium for instance.

At the end of the day WWI  was a totally avoidable tragedy brought about by naked imperialist aggression. If that wasn't bad enough in it lay the seeds of WWII.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:13:30 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:07:47 AM
Pathetic .

Erm... you have it in one!

Just too be clear , I would not ware a British poppy hence why your comment is pathetic as I've made that quite clear .Why do some people still feel the need to consider what the Brits in everything they do

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:13:30 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:07:47 AM
Pathetic .

Erm... you have it in one!

Just too be clear , I would not ware a British poppy hence why your comment is pathetic as I've made that quite clear

Time to stop digging maybe?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:37:59 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:13:30 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:07:47 AM
Pathetic .

Erm... you have it in one!

Just too be clear , I would not ware a British poppy hence why your comment is pathetic as I've made that quite clear

Time to stop digging maybe?

Time to stop living in the past maybe?

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:42:18 AM
Time to stop living in the past maybe?

Cracker, never heard that one before.

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:42:18 AM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:37:59 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:13:30 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:07:47 AM
Pathetic .

Erm... you have it in one!

Just too be clear , I would not ware a British poppy hence why your comment is pathetic as I've made that quite clear

Time to stop digging maybe?

Time to stop living in the past maybe?

:D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:37:59 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 11:13:30 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:07:47 AM
Pathetic .

Erm... you have it in one!

Just too be clear , I would not ware a British poppy hence why your comment is pathetic as I've made that quite clear

Time to stop digging maybe?

Yor really have made a fool of yourself now. it has always been made clear that I just wanted to remember these Irish men, nothing to do with Britain.

You really are no different that Big Ian, Myers etc - you just happen to be at the total opposite end of them which is just as bad as neither group sees sence or reality.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 11:57:49 AM
Yor really have made a fool of yourself now.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think its time for a poll!

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 12:02:18 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 11:57:49 AM
Yor really have made a fool of yourself now.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just goes to show what ur dealing with! go back to your nordie politics and let the rest of the country have proper debates about real issues!

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
I think its time for a poll!

Seconded.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 12:04:52 PM
Just goes to show what ur dealing with! go back to your nordie politics and let the rest of the country have proper debates about real issues!

You're a fount of unalloyed sense.

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
I think its time for a poll!

Not much point, people seem to be lost on what is even being discussed somehow.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 12:05:57 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 12:04:52 PM
Just goes to show what ur dealing with! go back to your nordie politics and let the rest of the country have proper debates about real issues!

You're a fount of unalloyed sense.

Yes and you appear to be as big a bigot as Big Ian. atleast you have something in common  ::)

Question for you: define bigot.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 12:10:26 PM

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
I think its time for a poll!

Not much point, people seem to be lost on what is even being discussed somehow.

I dont mean bout the discussion just who is winning!

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:16:16 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 12:10:26 PM

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
I think its time for a poll!

Not much point, people seem to be lost on what is even being discussed somehow.

I dont mean bout the discussion just who is winning!

winning what?

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
I think its time for a poll!

Me too. Liam Clancy or Finbarr Furey?

Clancy for me.

Gnevin & Tankie, call me incurably good-hearted if you like, but just for you guys (he's an indirect (German) descendant of the Kings your heroes fought for in the World Wars):

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45205000/jpg/_45205723_cb87ad73-5cd2-48c6-9d89-80e625e642b0.jpg)

Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 14, 2008, 12:24:08 PM

Quote from: ludermor on November 14, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
I think its time for a poll!

Me too. Liam Clancy or Finbarr Furey?

Clancy for me.

have to say that Clancy bored th socks off me
wasnt that pushed on makems music either (or when both combined or the clancy brothers)
however, for their day , it was top of the pops and the equiv now to britney aguleria or whatever the feck is top of the pops (though I know that no longer exists).

Finbarr furey would have been more entertaining in my eyes although I wouldnt have been a huge fan.

Dublin city ramblers would have been better imo

I saw that fella there in the red get-up on the telly the other night. (I only watched for two minutes and I didn't inhale). He said he was at an opera the night before and the soprano was "staggering". So it's not just Shane McGowan ...

Amazing the things you learn.

Christ Almighty Lunchbhoy - Dublin City Ramblers?

Quote from: Hardy on November 14, 2008, 01:15:11 PM
I saw that fella there in the red get-up on the telly the other night. (I only watched for two minutes and I didn't inhale). He said he was at an opera the night before and the soprano was "staggering". So it's not just Shane McGowan ...

Amazing the things you learn.

Christ Almighty Lunchbhoy - Dublin City Ramblers?

yeah I know
but they were pretty darn lively in concert (dont ask) - I am just sticking to the acts within that 'category'

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 10:39:22 AM
Are you implying we didn't ? I'd love to hear the reasons you where taught.

We also paid attention during the English lessons.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
Gnevin & Tankie, call me incurably good-hearted if you like, but just for you guys (he's an indirect (German) descendant of the Kings your heroes fought for in the World Wars):

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45205000/jpg/_45205723_cb87ad73-5cd2-48c6-9d89-80e625e642b0.jpg)

its sad how much you have shown yourself up here. Just just like Big Ian, rant rant rant

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:34:53 PM
its sad how much you have shown yourself up here. Just just like Big Ian, rant rant rant

???
I don't know, you try to do a lad a favour, and the abuse!

How about this little piece of memorabilia:

(http://pw20c.mcmaster.ca/files/imagecache/Medium_Image/files/pw20c_images/00001832.jpg)

Or this one:

(http://pw20c.mcmaster.ca/files/pw20c_images/00001758.jpg)

Or this:

(http://pw20c.mcmaster.ca/files/pw20c_images/00000880.jpg)

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
Gnevin & Tankie, call me incurably good-hearted if you like, but just for you guys (he's an indirect (German) descendant of the Kings your heroes fought for in the World Wars):

Yes every single Irish man fought for the King . Nicely brewed down to a completed load of manure . The reasons they fought where as varied as the reasons people didn't .

Would you have been a young or old lion for the empire Gnevin?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:42:42 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:34:53 PM
its sad how much you have shown yourself up here. Just just like Big Ian, rant rant rant

???
I don't know, you try to do a lad a favour, and the abuse!

How about this little piece of memorabilia:

or this one
(http://www.johndclare.net/images/Nazi_medical_experiments.jpg)
or
(http://www.msurman.freeserve.co.uk/www/pages/new_irish_farm_cem.jpg)
or
(http://www.anglesey.info/Leinster%20RMS%201897.jpg)

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:46:45 PM
Would you have been a young or old lion for the empire Gnevin?

::) ::) ::)

So would you remember the Irish who died fighting in the US civil war, if so which side? What about in the Congo, or spain?

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:42:18 AM
Time to stop living in the past maybe?

I think this sums up the new breed of person in modern day Ireland. Harbour any ill will towards Britain and you are living in the past, embrace them and you are with the times.

Reminds me of people who think acting rude to waiters makes them look posh  :D

Ironic that we are told to stop living in the past when they have spent the past few days ranting on and on about what happened almost 100 years ago and how people should be acting on it now in 2008.

Your top pic Gnevin  is of WWII, which was a direct result of WWI... D'oh!

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 01:48:26 PM
So would you remember the Irish who died fighting in the US civil war, if so which side? What about in the Congo, or spain?

Almost right, except for one (minor) detail: neither the US, nor the Congoese, nor the Spanish were occupying Ireland or any part thereof, when Irishmen answered their call to arms. Apart from that, your point is lethal.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:52:01 PM
Your top pic Gnevin  is of WWII, which was a direct result of WWI... D'oh!

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 01:48:26 PM
So would you remember the Irish who died fighting in the US civil war, if so which side? What about in the Congo, or spain?

Almost right, except for one (minor) detail: neither the US, nor the Congoese, nor the Spanish were occupying Ireland or any part thereof, when Irishmen answered their call to arms. Apart from that, your point is lethal.

But if they were occupying or invading a other country and Irish fought you'd remember them too?

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 14, 2008, 01:49:41 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:42:18 AM
Time to stop living in the past maybe?

I think this sums up the new breed of person in modern day Ireland. Harbour any ill will towards Britain and you are living in the past, embrace them and you are with the times.

I dont think its a new bread of anything, you choose to forget these men that fought for Ireland. And no matter haw many ways you go around it I never supported Britain in any arguement here.

You and that other Republican probably think all the IRA murders were justified  ::)

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM

I dont think its a new bread of anything, you choose to forget these men that fought for Ireland. And no matter haw many ways you go around it I never supported Britain in any arguement here.

You and that other Republican probably think all the IRA murders were justified  ::)

Thanks for proving my point!

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 14, 2008, 01:59:47 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM

I dont think its a new bread of anything, you choose to forget these men that fought for Ireland. And no matter haw many ways you go around it I never supported Britain in any arguement here.

You and that other Republican probably think all the IRA murders were justified  ::)

Thanks for proving my point!

Why dont you just answer the question. were they justified or is it question dodging 'republican' now!

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:52:01 PM
Your top pic Gnevin  is of WWII, which was a direct result of WWI... D'oh!

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 01:48:26 PM
So would you remember the Irish who died fighting in the US civil war, if so which side? What about in the Congo, or spain?

Almost right, except for one (minor) detail: neither the US, nor the Congoese, nor the Spanish were occupying Ireland or any part thereof, when Irishmen answered their call to arms. Apart from that, your point is lethal.

But if they were occupying or invading a other country and Irish fought you'd remember them too?

I tend only to remember those men who are worthy of remembrance, and I don't need to don a Royal British Legion poppy to parade it.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM
I dont think its a new bread of anything, you choose to forget these men that fought for Ireland. And no matter haw many ways you go around it I never supported Britain in any arguement here.

So, you wanted Britain to win the wars, and you laud the lads who fought for her, but you weren't supporting her?  And in case it hasn't dawned on you, Ireland declared war on no one, therefore no soldiers were fighting for her.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM
You and that other Republican probably think all the IRA murders were justified  ::)

Let's stick to the subject eh?

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 02:01:15 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 14, 2008, 01:59:47 PM

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM

I dont think its a new bread of anything, you choose to forget these men that fought for Ireland. And no matter haw many ways you go around it I never supported Britain in any arguement here.

You and that other Republican probably think all the IRA murders were justified  ::)

Thanks for proving my point!

Why dont you just answer the question. were they justified or is it question dodging 'republican' now!

forgive me for intruding, wheres the question ?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 02:02:59 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2008, 01:52:01 PM
Your top pic Gnevin  is of WWII, which was a direct result of WWI... D'oh!

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 01:48:26 PM
So would you remember the Irish who died fighting in the US civil war, if so which side? What about in the Congo, or spain?

Almost right, except for one (minor) detail: neither the US, nor the Congoese, nor the Spanish were occupying Ireland or any part thereof, when Irishmen answered their call to arms. Apart from that, your point is lethal.

But if they were occupying or invading a other country and Irish fought you'd remember them too?

I tend only to remember those men who are worthy of remembrance, and I don't need to don a Royal British Legion poppy to parade it.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM
I dont think its a new bread of anything, you choose to forget these men that fought for Ireland. And no matter haw many ways you go around it I never supported Britain in any arguement here.

So, you wanted Britain to win the wars, and you laud the lads who fought for her, but you weren't supporting her?  And in case it hasn't dawned on you, Ireland declared war on no one, therefore no soldiers were fighting for her.

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 01:55:42 PM
You and that other Republican probably think all the IRA murders were justified  ::)

Let's stick to the subject eh?

Lets stick to the subject? - you cant even read the thread as you just keep making stuff up about peoples view points.

but I would like you to answer the question anyway!

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 14, 2008, 01:49:41 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 11:42:18 AM
Time to stop living in the past maybe?

I think this sums up the new breed of person in modern day Ireland. Harbour any ill will towards Britain and you are living in the past, embrace them and you are with the times.

Reminds me of people who think acting rude to waiters makes them look posh  :D

Ironic that we are told to stop living in the past when they have spent the past few days ranting on and on about what happened almost 100 years ago and how people should be acting on it now in 2008.

You can stop living in the past with out forgetting your past . This is not about Britain it about Irish men who happened to fight for Britain

Quote from: Tankie on November 14, 2008, 02:05:31 PM
but I would like you to answer the question anyway!

Don't you think that your powers of comprehension are under enough pressure, without introducing new topics?

Quote from: Gnevin on November 14, 2008, 02:06:35 PM
This is not about Britain it about Irish men who happened to fight for Britain

By accident was it?

Might be as well to wrap this thread up? It's the usual here, if people can't win the arguement then they rubbish the context. In that case you might as well one up them, take your ball and go home.

Quote from: Mentalman on November 14, 2008, 02:10:06 PM
Might be as well to wrap this thread up? It's the usual here, if people can't win the arguement then they rubbish the context. In that case you might as well one up them, take your ball and go home.

Well Fear ón Srath Bán ruinned the thread awhile back when he start his bigoted rants and started calling us Brits just because he doesnt agree with history and even tho it was pointed out that in noway did we support the crown like most of the Irish men who fought. He's no better than Big Ian or Kevin Myers...

I will lock the thread up boys!