Messages

Have watched a heap of games now where with 10 minutes to go the team leading by 3+ points will do one or all of the following to waste time and kill the flow of play.

Players (from the team leading) who get fouled (at even the most minor level) and pretend to be in serous pain.
Players (from the team leading) who when conceding an free, jibe, hold onto the ball and have handbags with the opposition.
Players (from the team leading) who when winning a free, jibe and have handbags with the opposition.
Players (from the team leading) pull down a player, run away from the incident, get called back from the ref and get a black card.
Players (from the team leading) just playing keep ball and winding down the clock.
Players (from the team leading) taking an age to take a free and then deciding to leave it to a colleague to take.
Substitutions from the leading team.

The irony is that the way the rules are laid out the referee is your best friend at this point (if you are leading that is). He help burn up as much time as you like and won't add a bit on for it.

And the reason the hooter wasn't brought in was because it would allow too many opportunities for time wasting. Laughable

The GAA's love of replays has nothing to do with it of course.

Unless both Armagh and Kildare win, then Armagh could potentially play Dublin as there will be a draw. That possibility was there for the other quarter finals anyway. http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/2/2107141421-football-championship-fixture-details-confirmed/

Can somebody tell me how home advantage is decided in the next round? I thought it was first team drawn out but I cant see how that will work if there's two bowls. E.g Bowl 1: Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow  V Bowl 2:Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub). They would have to pick from one of the bowls first to the detriment of counties in the other.

[the story of the game is in those stats afaic.]

I was happy enough with Andy Moran. If he gets back close to his best by championship we ll be all happy I think. It was always going to take a while.

This team has been very ruthless at times over the past 3 years. Roscommon, Galway, Cork, Down, Donegal and Dublin for 50mins in 2012 were all on the end of a bit of ruthlessness in championship matches. And players and management deserve credit for this. I think their is a consciousness in this team that they go looking for goals. It s a deliberate thing where before goal chances were thing that might or might not happen. Horan expects runners to take a chance and run from deep positions. This runner often ends up with a goal chance. The fact that Keegan ends up scoring so much is not by chance. Vaughan should score a lot more. Ideally Boyle instead of Vaughan is a player you want to get forward because Boyle can score.
Farrandeeelin will remember a few years ago when Knockmore would patiently wait to tee up Chucky to take the shot on. Crossmaglen used to leave much of the shooting to Oisín because he was most likely to score. One of our problems v Dublin was poor shot selection by players who are not tecnically good enough to be taking on shots from 30metres and more.
For me the biggest problem this team has is making ball stick in the ff line. A stat in Mayo News shows that while we won 80% of kickouts while it was 15v15 only 2 from 12 high balls to ff line stuck. Mixing the brilliant with the terrible and the story of the game is in those stats afaic. 10 Mayo possessions kicked away to the opposition to run back at us. A similar turnover stat was the reason we lost the Donegal final. Something like 2-7 of Donegal s total came from Mayo trying to kick the ball into a ff line.
As soon as the ff thing is mentioned people start to nominate the biggest unit they can think off as a target. Whether its Freeman or an even bigger Barry Moran, high ball is too easily defended by the better teams. With the way the scoring rate has risen in games and top teams ability to counter attack, a target man would need to win a create a score from 50%? of the ball going in. 2 balls won from 12 is not sustainable. For that reason I would prefer a more versatile target player inside and rely on clever runs and low balls to get ball to stick inside. That is where Andy and Dillon have a role to play yet.
If we could get the ff thing sorted, and we have the personnel to do it imo, we would take another leap forward. Pressure would be taken off other parts of the team. People have been moaning about our defense but look at where the problems are happening. Turnovers into the ff line with our hbs in advanced roles. Ripe for the sucker punch.

When you consider the fact that we scored 2-17 and were 5 points up with 5 minutes to go, its hard to see how those stats were 'the story of the game.' That 2 out of 12 stat related to the first half only, a half where we went in four points up. That game was left behind because we stopped playing for the last 5 minutes, not because of the general forward play for the previous 65.

Fair enough, the number of ball that stuck in there the last night could have been better but I think that this tactical change is one thats on the right track. The last time we kicked as much ball was indeed the Donegal final, the problem there was that their early lead was just too insurmountable, not the kicking game. The fact that we havnt attempted this type of game in the last 2 years meant that a lot of the execution in our kick passing the last night was poor, hence some of the long ball appearing aimless. This however is something that can be greatly improved as the year progresses. Turnovers are where most matches are won and lost in the modern game. I would argue that a turnover lost playing our running game is a lot more dangerous than one lost kicking a long ball to the full forward line. What we often see with the running game is a mayo player getting dispossed in traffic while our half back line are all inside the oppositions 45. This leaves that large open space that was so obvious during the first few league matches. With a lost long ball the half back line are already in a position to regroup and defend. I think this is highlighted by that 2 out of 12 stat. Even though we kicked the ball away 10 times in that first half, no goal was conceeded. On the other hand, of the 2 balls that stuck, one turned up in the back of net.

Look Im not advocating a complete abandonment of the running game, I know its served us well over the last few years, I just think that we need to vary it against the top teams or we'll be caught out like we were in last years final.

Anyway looking forward to the Derry game at the weekend, Id stick with more or less the same team that went out the last day with maybe Sweeney in for Doc. As others have mentioned, its vital that we qualify for the semis so that our collapse against the dubs dosnt linger and that means getting our best team out on the pitch. Do that and theres no reason why we shouldnt be challenging for a league title come the end of the month.

[That leaves me with a starting forward line of KMcL, COC, Freezer, Andy, Gallagherwith one from Dillon, Doc, Conroy, Feeney, B Moran, Parsons??]

Miserable day in Mullingar

I wouldnt think we can read a massive amount into the performance of the team as a whole. Croi will know I have a fair bit of experience with bad teams and this Westmeath team are as poor a team as has been in Div 1 for a while. For the first ten minutes we ran riot, lovely short, crisp hand passing, they couldnt get out of their half and we were winning everything at midfield.

And then we just stopped, they got a lucky goal (reminiscent of the minor replay for Hennelly unfortunately, which is becoming a theme) and we stopped running the ball at speed.

The second half we picked it up again and blew them out of the water. James Dolan is a fine player for them and caused a lot of trouble.

I think we can take a lot from the individual performances.
Keane - just not good enough, tried hard but hes getting roasted a lot, and when it goes wrong it goes really wrong. We wont win an all-ireland with him in the full back, its that simple and if you accept that is the case then why are we persisting?

HB line - looked amazing in full flow yesterday and do great tracking but when they all go forward, while they are quick enough to track runners back they are leaving acres of space for the opposition to kick ball into a FF line which is 3v3. One mistake and we are wide open. I;m not sure what the solution is

Midfield - we have great options, Gibbons and O'Shea played well yesterday but I'd like to see us being smarter with knocking the ball down to players, we dont have to win a clean catch everytime

Forwards - This is where the trouble starts

DOC - played well but end product is missing too often. You'd hope that will come
McL - an extra half back basically and wins a sight of ball - definite starter
Higgins - I havent been impressed by him this year in the HF, does solve the problem at corner back
Freezer - good game again yesterday
Varley/Mikey Sweeney - I'm not sure why we kick long high ball into these guys, it makes no sense, esp on a wet day. I dont think either offer enough to make the first team and i wouldn't rely on either to come off the bench, they might do it but its hit and miss. (Maybe a little harsh on sweeney)
Conroy - WTF?? I'm not sure what was up yesterday but he looked like he was drunk/stoned/a junior B footballer.
I'm a fan of his ball winning and think hes a good man to come off the bench, esp if he can get his decision making in order

COC - great to see him back and u can even see from his few passes what he brings to the team - he will be our marquee forward this year and be the reason we can win the AI

That leaves me with a starting forward line of KMcL, COC, Freezer, Andy, Gallagher
with one from Dillon, Doc, Conroy, Feeney, B Moran, Parsons??

Have a lot of respect for Andy Moran and Alan Dillon and the time they have dedicated to the Mayo cause, but have to wonder if they really have pace and in Alan Dillon's case strength to start a championship game. They may be far better coming off bench with 15-20  mins to go, when pace of game has dripped slightly. In today's non contact game. managers may need to be looking at footballers that have the ability to sprint up and down the field for an hour, crazy analogy, but the way the game is going it may not be a stretch.

Impressed with Gallagher, but he may need some time to develop. If I had my choice, I would be tempted start Barry Moran, Alan Freeman and Conroy in full forward line, or Richie Feeney and let him play between half and full forward line.

You would start a young fella who has only played 2 league games ahead of a two time all-star who is still only 31? big call. Dont get me wrong, I think Gallagher has a lot of potential but Id be holding off for a while yet before saying he's a championship starter. Dont forget either that Dillon was carrying an injury for most of last year. The time off will hopefully have sorted it out.

An interesting point made there that our over reliance on the running game is due to JH not having faith in his full forward line options. Possibly so, however I think last years final proves that we wont win it without mixing the game plan up a bit, I hope JH sees it that way too. Anyway, as was said, this year should be the first time since the bank holiday 2012 that we have a fully fit Andy and COC. Slot Dillon back into the half forward line and push Andy forward, that leaves you with a Freezer/Andy/COC trio. It is absolutely vital that we get a settled full forward line ticking. Have faith in those 3, their the best hope we have.

[Personally I think we ve kicked too much ball into the ff line fairly aimlessly last 2 finals. We should be running the ball.]

Would a few of last years Mayo Minor team come into the reckoning after the U-21 campaign is  over? A few classy forwards in that side like Doherty and Conroy, full of confidence. But still a big step up from Minor to Senior in one year, but worth a shot if they perform well with the u21s

Too soon for them imo. But we may well get something out of the U21 campaign.
I can see Zulu s point about forwards an all but come summer if we get injured players back we will have options. Personally I think we ve kicked too much ball into the ff line fairly aimlessly last 2 finals. We should be running the ball. I select on the basis of gaining primary possession and keeping it. We should play to our strengths, one of which is pace. When we ran at teams last year we got scores from a spread of players.

eh...look back and see how Andy's goal came about, Also look at Brogan's sucker punch in the first half for that matter!

That goal in the final came from a long ball in, one of the few we kicked all day! What let us down was our failure to move away from our traditional style of play, i.e. short passing up the field. We had more than enough possession to win that match yet time after time we attempted to walk the ball from one end of the pitch to the other. The final once again proved that you cant win an all Ireland with this method and its high time we move away from it.

I see the old soundbites about Mayo having no marquee forwards are alive and well. In actual fact Andy, Freeman and Cillian are inside forwards as good as what's out there, the problem is we don't kick early ball into them. By the time any of them usually get the ball, the area is congested, they've no space and they're trying to beat around 6 opposition defenders. The other problem with 'running the ball' is that our half back line gets caught in the opposition half far too often, this leads to an acre of space in front of our full back line. How many times was poor Ger Caff left isolated one on one against Brogan in our three games against the Dubs last year. Brogans goal in the first half of the final being the perfect example of what im on about.

Historically, ourselves and Donegal were renowned for this short passing style of play. I believe its no coincidence that the first Donegal team to fundamentally alter their style also went on to win an all Ireland!

Good debate but I ll stick to my guns.

There was a horrendous stat out there ( some other poster might remember it exactly) that Donegal in 2012 scored something like 2-6 from Mayo kicking ball into a ff line that could not win it and Donegal counter-attacking. Played into Donegal's hands.

We scored a heap of goals and points last year from our running game.

Freeman was the only ff in final last year that looked like he could win early ball but was hauled off for some reason.

I m all for early ball into ff line but we dont win enough of it. If we had a Murphy or a Sheehan or Brogan or Cooper that would be the way to go. In our squad we dont have that go-to unmarkable forward yet. But there s more than one way to win at football.

We did kick a bit more in the 2012 final alright but you have to remeber neither Andy or Freeman started that day. It was probably asking a bit much of a 19 year old Cillian to be the go to man. Some of the execution in the kick passing left a lot to be desired too but I dont think the idea in general was that far off the mark. Had the early goals not gone in......

While there may well be more than one way to win a game of football I cant recall any team that won an All Ireland in the last 20 years where one of their inside forwards didnt stand up and kick a few scores from play in the final. Our running game has been quite productive for us but I think all Ireland finals are a different beasht! On average we usually end up having a spread of about 6 or 7 players scoring a point or two from play and I just cant look past the fact that no team has gone the whole way like that. The Cork team that won in 2010 probably came closest but even then Donnacadh O Connor kicked 3 from play in the final. Anyway, Im of the opinion that the full forward line that started in last years final have what it takes, we just need to get a bit smarter with our tactics.

[Personally I think we ve kicked too much ball into the ff line fairly aimlessly last 2 finals. We should be running the ball.]

Would a few of last years Mayo Minor team come into the reckoning after the U-21 campaign is  over? A few classy forwards in that side like Doherty and Conroy, full of confidence. But still a big step up from Minor to Senior in one year, but worth a shot if they perform well with the u21s

Too soon for them imo. But we may well get something out of the U21 campaign.
I can see Zulu s point about forwards an all but come summer if we get injured players back we will have options. Personally I think we ve kicked too much ball into the ff line fairly aimlessly last 2 finals. We should be running the ball. I select on the basis of gaining primary possession and keeping it. We should play to our strengths, one of which is pace. When we ran at teams last year we got scores from a spread of players.

eh...look back and see how Andy's goal came about, Also look at Brogan's sucker punch in the first half for that matter!

That goal in the final came from a long ball in, one of the few we kicked all day! What let us down was our failure to move away from our traditional style of play, i.e. short passing up the field. We had more than enough possession to win that match yet time after time we attempted to walk the ball from one end of the pitch to the other. The final once again proved that you cant win an all Ireland with this method and its high time we move away from it.

I see the old soundbites about Mayo having no marquee forwards are alive and well. In actual fact Andy, Freeman and Cillian are inside forwards as good as what's out there, the problem is we don't kick early ball into them. By the time any of them usually get the ball, the area is congested, they've no space and they're trying to beat around 6 opposition defenders. The other problem with 'running the ball' is that our half back line gets caught in the opposition half far too often, this leads to an acre of space in front of our full back line. How many times was poor Ger Caff left isolated one on one against Brogan in our three games against the Dubs last year. Brogans goal in the first half of the final being the perfect example of what im on about.

Historically, ourselves and Donegal were renowned for this short passing style of play. I believe its no coincidence that the first Donegal team to fundamentally alter their style also went on to win an all Ireland!