If it's not about the money then why are Dublin so far ahead?

[AZOffaly]

Cause and effect Easytiger. Or maybe the law of unintended consequences. But the fact remains that a huge disparity in investment in coaching structures (even if motivated by a valid reason) inevitably  leads to competitive advantage on the playing field. You reap what you sow. If Dublin were not getting those benefits it would be the biggest waste of money since e-Voting.

All I'm saying is that this unfair advantage should be evened out by ensuring that other counties are funded to allow a similar level of coaching. I'm not asking for anything that is not available to Dublin.

And as for Kildare's recent success, those sort of cycles or crops of players are not indicative of a sustainable trend, just as a poor Dublin minor team does not mean the structures are flawed.

All I want is the field to be level. Let us compete with Dublin, in terms of developing our players, with the same structural supports.

[mup]

The Dubs had all games in Croker between 1996 and 2010 and won nothing
In 5 years or a  decade they will be back winning nothing

SeafoId you don't  have to comment on every thread. They only starting playing every league game 4 years ago.

.

Where are you proposing Dublin play their home league games?

Parnell Park.

How about the Dubs sharing Newbridge with Kildare as their home ground. If that were to happen I'm certain that Dublin's success rate against Kildare would be on par with their historic success rate - 100% or thereabouts.

Bit like fans of a certain soccer team. The Gaa was founded in before this era of Dublin success. You prob werent 'following' then though.

[blast05]

So, Easy Tiger, i've pulled you up on this thread for talking sh*te when you said Mayo and Dublin spent roughly the same. Then i pulled you up for lying wrt what i said about comparisons between Mayo and Dublins spend.

You have failed to acknowledge either and you have failed to even attempt to answer the single question i have asked on a number of occasions (hence why i am now using words like 'lying'). Sitting in your ivory tower pontificating with your 2 ears closed is not debating.

Over and out.

[ONeill]

Dublin aren't that great. Even Armagh managed two finals in a row.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

I'd also say if Kildare are able to compete with us at minor and U-21 level (thus showing that there is at least a comparison between our developmental structures) that there may be other factors at play as well as financial ones which are contributing to the disparity?

Seems only reasonable.

Kildare may be competing but Dublin have won the last 3 Leinster under 21 championships and will be odds on next year to make it 4 in a row considering how good the 2014 minor team was. The gap is still widening unfortunately.

The lack of supporters in other Leinster counties due to a lack of any chance of success will inevitably mean less funds for development which will mean less success which will mean less support and on it goes.
Drastic action is needed from the GAA as this will not resolve itself automatically.

[easytiger95]

So, Easy Tiger, i've pulled you up on this thread for talking sh*te when you said Mayo and Dublin spent roughly the same. Then i pulled you up for lying wrt what i said about comparisons between Mayo and Dublins spend.

You have failed to acknowledge either and you have failed to even attempt to answer the single question i have asked on a number of occasions (hence why i am now using words like 'lying'). Sitting in your ivory tower pontificating with your 2 ears closed is not debating.

Over and out.

Oh sorry Blast - your answer to my observation that Dublin and Mayo senior football teams spent roughly the same was to come up with your own theories as to what the percentage of the total figure for all intercounty teams within the counties (from an article you posted) was spent by Mayo on travel etc. You said it was based on the Mayo reports of 2014 and 15 - however you posted no link and the figure of 60% travel expenses was not sourced or linked either. So in other words, you were pulling figures out of your ....

My observation of "roughly" was based on my own observations, various articles over the James Horan era and anecdotal evidence. Not scientific at all, which is why I used the term "roughly". Very easy to prove me wrong - post up links to both teams spend (on senior intercounty football please) and we can compare and contrast. I'm happy to be proved wrong if you can provide a credible link.

As for the hurlers - I made the point that the DCB are supporting both hurlers and footballers at the elite end of both codes, which was more of an expense than Mayo had to bear. You responded "Mayo field hurling teams at all grades and in their own words "want for nothing"" - which is a direct rebuttal of my point. Frankly I think that is bull, Mayo spend nowhere near what Dublin does in terms of hurling, the hurling expenses go a long way to explaining the disparity in that total figure you posted.

Again, if you would like to disprove that, please post up credible figures.

In the meantime, I'll disregard your opinions as to whether I'm talking shite or not - for me, your credibility went out the door when you bemoaned how easy it was to be cynical since Dublin had rigged the system to get a dressing room exactly - and I mean exactly - the same as the other.

Disagreeing is not pontificating, and not every argument you make has to be agreed to by me. I have my own opinions and my own experience in GAA, both as a game and an occupation. Happy to occupy the "ivory tower" given the level of some of the arguments I've heard on here.

[easytiger95]

Cause and effect Easytiger. Or maybe the law of unintended consequences. But the fact remains that a huge disparity in investment in coaching structures (even if motivated by a valid reason) inevitably  leads to competitive advantage on the playing field. You reap what you sow. If Dublin were not getting those benefits it would be the biggest waste of money since e-Voting.

All I'm saying is that this unfair advantage should be evened out by ensuring that other counties are funded to allow a similar level of coaching. I'm not asking for anything that is not available to Dublin.

And as for Kildare's recent success, those sort of cycles or crops of players are not indicative of a sustainable trend, just as a poor Dublin minor team does not mean the structures are flawed.

All I want is the field to be level. Let us compete with Dublin, in terms of developing our players, with the same structural supports.

Ah c'mon AZ - when Dublin does it, it is structural, inherent advantage. When Kildare do it, it is just a crop or cycle of special players. You're having it both ways. Despite all the talk done on this board by Kildare posters about the great work done at underage. There is even a thread about it on the first page.

[INDIANA]

Rightyo tiger. Why is croke park used as dublins homeground?
How is that fair and not an advantage?  Simple facts we dont need to rely on rumor for that one.

How many paid coaches are in dublin? How many in mayo? Does this ratio define fairness?

What percentage of development funding do dublin get? Is this fair. In 2014 i read in IT article they got more than the 31 combined. Has this changed for 15?

Dublin Clubs pay 50% of the GPO's cost themselves but never let the facts get in the way of bullshit. It's less interesting. Do you chew straw?

[AZOffaly]

Cause and effect Easytiger. Or maybe the law of unintended consequences. But the fact remains that a huge disparity in investment in coaching structures (even if motivated by a valid reason) inevitably  leads to competitive advantage on the playing field. You reap what you sow. If Dublin were not getting those benefits it would be the biggest waste of money since e-Voting.

All I'm saying is that this unfair advantage should be evened out by ensuring that other counties are funded to allow a similar level of coaching. I'm not asking for anything that is not available to Dublin.

And as for Kildare's recent success, those sort of cycles or crops of players are not indicative of a sustainable trend, just as a poor Dublin minor team does not mean the structures are flawed.

All I want is the field to be level. Let us compete with Dublin, in terms of developing our players, with the same structural supports.

Ah c'mon AZ - when Dublin does it, it is structural, inherent advantage. When Kildare do it, it is just a crop or cycle of special players. You're having it both ways. Despite all the talk done on this board by Kildare posters about the great work done at underage. There is even a thread about it on the first page.

Fair enough. You have your mind made up. I'm telling you what I believe and I think it is self evident. But no point going around in circles over it.

[blast05]

So, Easy Tiger, i've pulled you up on this thread for talking sh*te when you said Mayo and Dublin spent roughly the same. Then i pulled you up for lying wrt what i said about comparisons between Mayo and Dublins spend.

You have failed to acknowledge either and you have failed to even attempt to answer the single question i have asked on a number of occasions (hence why i am now using words like 'lying'). Sitting in your ivory tower pontificating with your 2 ears closed is not debating.

Over and out.

Oh sorry Blast - your answer to my observation that Dublin and Mayo senior football teams spent roughly the same was to come up with your own theories as to what the percentage of the total figure for all intercounty teams within the counties (from an article you posted) was spent by Mayo on travel etc. You said it was based on the Mayo reports of 2014 and 15 - however you posted no link and the figure of 60% travel expenses was not sourced or linked either. So in other words, you were pulling figures out of your ....

My observation of "roughly" was based on my own observations, various articles over the James Horan era and anecdotal evidence. Not scientific at all, which is why I used the term "roughly". Very easy to prove me wrong - post up links to both teams spend (on senior intercounty football please) and we can compare and contrast. I'm happy to be proved wrong if you can provide a credible link.

As for the hurlers - I made the point that the DCB are supporting both hurlers and footballers at the elite end of both codes, which was more of an expense than Mayo had to bear. You responded "Mayo field hurling teams at all grades and in their own words "want for nothing"" - which is a direct rebuttal of my point. Frankly I think that is bull, Mayo spend nowhere near what Dublin does in terms of hurling, the hurling expenses go a long way to explaining the disparity in that total figure you posted.

Again, if you would like to disprove that, please post up credible figures.

In the meantime, I'll disregard your opinions as to whether I'm talking shite or not - for me, your credibility went out the door when you bemoaned how easy it was to be cynical since Dublin had rigged the system to get a dressing room exactly - and I mean exactly - the same as the other.

Disagreeing is not pontificating, and not every argument you make has to be agreed to by me. I have my own opinions and my own experience in GAA, both as a game and an occupation. Happy to occupy the "ivory tower" given the level of some of the arguments I've heard on here.

Here you go ... page 4, schedule 7 ... http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf

As you can, the spend was higher in 2013 & 2014 and unfortunately had to be reduced in 2015.
A quick bit of maths of the figures for '13 & '14 show that percentage of the spend on travel for 2013 & 2014 was 57% & 65% respectively across all panels.
Regardless of the level a team is competing at, they are all entitled to the same mileage rate and the hurlers train multiple times per week albeit a season that typically ends in mid June for hurlers rather than August/September for the footballers.

So, as you can see, my opinions are based on facts.
Can you now point me to a similar link to back up your statements ... specifically that Mayo and Dublin footballers spend roughly the same.
Also, can you clarify how you managed to interpret my statement of Dublin hurlers spending ~650K and Mayo hurlers spending ~150K  as meaning they both spend the same.
Finally, can you bring some clarity to what the Dublin CB spend is on given that their travel expenses must surely be significantly less than that of Mayo as a percentage of revenue.

And again, i don't really give a crap about the dressing room discussion. You are doing exactly as i said in one of my earlier posts in using it as a red herring to avoid addressing the real issues

I don't expect you to answer any of my points of course .... you will enevitably produce another long ramble full of deliberate obfuscation to try and avoid addressing these points as you have done on all points addressed to you in this thread

[easytiger95]

Told you before i agreed that funding should be looked at. Don't really know what else is expected beyond that.

My problem is with the conspiracies and motives attributed to the DCB - most of which are complete hot air.

[AZOffaly]

Told you before i agreed that funding should be looked at. Don't really know what else is expected beyond that.

My problem is with the conspiracies and motives attributed to the DCB - most of which are complete hot air.

We're in violent agreement so 😃  I don't blame Dublin for spending the money wisely !!!!

[mup]

Rightyo tiger. Why is croke park used as dublins homeground?
How is that fair and not an advantage?  Simple facts we dont need to rely on rumor for that one.

How many paid coaches are in dublin? How many in mayo? Does this ratio define fairness?

What percentage of development funding do dublin get? Is this fair. In 2014 i read in IT article they got more than the 31 combined. Has this changed for 15?

Dublin Clubs pay 50% of the GPO's cost themselves but never let the facts get in the way of bullshit. It's less interesting. Do you chew straw?

50% of how many GDO's?

[easytiger95]

So, Easy Tiger, i've pulled you up on this thread for talking sh*te when you said Mayo and Dublin spent roughly the same. Then i pulled you up for lying wrt what i said about comparisons between Mayo and Dublins spend.

You have failed to acknowledge either and you have failed to even attempt to answer the single question i have asked on a number of occasions (hence why i am now using words like 'lying'). Sitting in your ivory tower pontificating with your 2 ears closed is not debating.

Over and out.

Oh sorry Blast - your answer to my observation that Dublin and Mayo senior football teams spent roughly the same was to come up with your own theories as to what the percentage of the total figure for all intercounty teams within the counties (from an article you posted) was spent by Mayo on travel etc. You said it was based on the Mayo reports of 2014 and 15 - however you posted no link and the figure of 60% travel expenses was not sourced or linked either. So in other words, you were pulling figures out of your ....

My observation of "roughly" was based on my own observations, various articles over the James Horan era and anecdotal evidence. Not scientific at all, which is why I used the term "roughly". Very easy to prove me wrong - post up links to both teams spend (on senior intercounty football please) and we can compare and contrast. I'm happy to be proved wrong if you can provide a credible link.

As for the hurlers - I made the point that the DCB are supporting both hurlers and footballers at the elite end of both codes, which was more of an expense than Mayo had to bear. You responded "Mayo field hurling teams at all grades and in their own words "want for nothing"" - which is a direct rebuttal of my point. Frankly I think that is bull, Mayo spend nowhere near what Dublin does in terms of hurling, the hurling expenses go a long way to explaining the disparity in that total figure you posted.

Again, if you would like to disprove that, please post up credible figures.

In the meantime, I'll disregard your opinions as to whether I'm talking shite or not - for me, your credibility went out the door when you bemoaned how easy it was to be cynical since Dublin had rigged the system to get a dressing room exactly - and I mean exactly - the same as the other.

Disagreeing is not pontificating, and not every argument you make has to be agreed to by me. I have my own opinions and my own experience in GAA, both as a game and an occupation. Happy to occupy the "ivory tower" given the level of some of the arguments I've heard on here.

Here you go ... page 4, schedule 7 ... http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf

As you can, the spend was higher in 2013 & 2014 and unfortunately had to be reduced in 2015.
A quick bit of maths of the figures for '13 & '14 show that percentage of the spend on travel for 2013 & 2014 was 57% & 65% respectively across all panels.
Regardless of the level a team is competing at, they are all entitled to the same mileage rate and the hurlers train multiple times per week albeit a season that typically ends in mid June for hurlers rather than August/September for the footballers.

So, as you can see, my opinions are based on facts.
Can you now point me to a similar link to back up your statements ... specifically that Mayo and Dublin footballers spend roughly the same.
Also, can you clarify how you managed to interpret my statement of Dublin hurlers spending ~650K and Mayo hurlers spending ~150K  as meaning they both spend the same.
Finally, can you bring some clarity to what the Dublin CB spend is on given that their travel expenses must surely be significantly less than that of Mayo as a percentage of revenue.

And again, i don't really give a crap about the dressing room discussion. You are doing exactly as i said in one of my earlier posts in using it as a red herring to avoid addressing the real issues

I don't expect you to answer any of my points of course .... you will enevitably produce another long ramble full of deliberate obfuscation to try and avoid addressing these points as you have done on all points addressed to you in this thread

Nothing long about this at all - I said they spent roughly the same on the senior footballers, you called bullshit on that, now it's up to you to prove it. You've got the Mayo figures, now go get the Dublin ones. Happy as i said to be proved wrong, but you are the one who is disputing what I said. Oh and we're only talking about senior footballers by the way, so I don't need percentages across all panels thanks.

Oh and by the way, if you just read down to page 8 of those accounts you'll find it broken down into team by team expenses (so you don't have to rely on the calculator)- you guys spent 133k on your hurlers, 89k of which was travel - however, unlike the football expenses, it is not broken down into senior/u 21/minor, unlike the football figures. You could expect the total hurling figure for Dublin to be many multiples of that.

Happy hunting

[INDIANA]

Rightyo tiger. Why is croke park used as dublins homeground?
How is that fair and not an advantage?  Simple facts we dont need to rely on rumor for that one.

How many paid coaches are in dublin? How many in mayo? Does this ratio define fairness?

What percentage of development funding do dublin get? Is this fair. In 2014 i read in IT article they got more than the 31 combined. Has this changed for 15?

Dublin Clubs pay 50% of the GPO's cost themselves but never let the facts get in the way of bullshit. It's less interesting. Do you chew straw?

50% of how many GDO's?

Most club's have one. Some have two. 50% of each