What a wonderful programme on RTE tonight and a brilliant insight into all aspects of all Ireland final day.
Only a station that understands the very fibre of the gaa and Irish society could produce such a superb piece of television. Well done to all concerned.
Good programme alright but Donaghy should have got a penalty.
As Teddy McCarthy would say, Croke Park on AI day is a credit to the association.
Was it not on your local station the bbc armaghniac?
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2015, 11:27:18 PM
As Teddy McCarthy would say, Croke Park on AI day is a credit to the association.
I'm afraid you'll have to speak to a moderator.
Ziggy!
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 09, 2015, 11:31:24 PM
Was it not on your local station the bbc armaghniac?
Uninformed comment.
The best bit of this programme was listening to Dave Goldricks exchange with the players. Why can't we hear this during a game as they do in Rugby? It would help referees win support for what they do and what they are subjected to
What about the GOUGER
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 11:26:03 PM
Good programme alright but Donaghy should have got a penalty.
Not convinced, didn't exactly fight to stay on his feet. Wasn't exactly whiter than white either as regards a hand across McMahon's face prior to the eye gouge.
Great programme though, fantastic insight into the day itself and the work behind the scenes. Coldrick communicated great with the players but I don't think he got the respect he gave. Had to laugh when Gooch was trying to find out the injury time and pointing out all the time that Cluxton had wasted and McMahon tells the ref "don't listen to all that shite".
Time for yellow cards for foul language and barracking refs?
QuoteColdrick communicated great with the players but I don't think he got the respect he gave. Had to laugh when Gooch was trying to find out the injury time and pointing out all the time that Cluxton had wasted and McMahon tells the ref "don't listen to all that shite".
Yep O'Mahony in particular ignoring the three "Aidan's" after the rugby tackle. Did chuckle at that exchange re the time alright
Great programme and I think it proved again how difficult it is to referee the game.
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2015, 11:16:32 AM
QuoteColdrick communicated great with the players but I don't think he got the respect he gave. Had to laugh when Gooch was trying to find out the injury time and pointing out all the time that Cluxton had wasted and McMahon tells the ref "don't listen to all that shite".
Yep O'Mahony in particular ignoring the three "Aidan's" after the rugby tackle. Did chuckle at that exchange re the time alright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2D3-FkoXNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2D3-FkoXNU)
The one thing that struck me was the indifference, back chat and general lack of respect for the ref and his decisions. Can't blame the ref for trying to inform the players but this was met with very little respect from the players.
Quote from: Bingo on November 10, 2015, 12:21:29 PM
The one thing that struck me was the indifference, back chat and general lack of respect for the ref and his decisions. Can't blame the ref for trying to inform the players but this was met with very little respect from the players.
Hardly a new development:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/paul-finlay-the-dra-and-the-royal-british-bank-v-turquand-ruling-of-1856-26463990.html
Paul Finlay to ref - "you blew me for a f***ing pick off the ground. I didn't pick the f***ing ball off the ground, you f***ing tr**p.""
Quote from: heffo on November 10, 2015, 12:35:27 PM
Quote from: Bingo on November 10, 2015, 12:21:29 PM
The one thing that struck me was the indifference, back chat and general lack of respect for the ref and his decisions. Can't blame the ref for trying to inform the players but this was met with very little respect from the players.
Hardly a new development:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/paul-finlay-the-dra-and-the-royal-british-bank-v-turquand-ruling-of-1856-26463990.html
Paul Finlay to ref - "you blew me for a f***ing pick off the ground. I didn't pick the f***ing ball off the ground, you f***ing tr**p.""
Totally the case, but I guess you trying to throw something back at me using a Monaghan, so fire away with more if you like.
What I took from last night was that the ref was trying to explain his reasoning and looking to engage players. I'm sure that this happens at all levels but this gets the ref nowhere. You always get comments from commentators on games, players, managers etc when discussing refs that they want explanations from refs, and then they reference rugby refs and how they explain stuff to players and get respect for doing so. Well if last night showed up anything, its that they will try this and even at the very top levels players don't pay any remarks to this.
Any i'll give you another example we had a championship match this year and I was along the line. Within 5 mins, the ref moved two frees we conceded up, both where kickable but also missable. Now they where nailed on. I was beside one of our selectors and he blew the head with the ref and called him a number of choice words. I put him firmly in his place and told that the ref wasn't at fault if our players where stupid enough to give him the opportunity to move the ball up. As this was happening, two of our players on the pitch had the cop on to let the offender know that he was a bollix. Its a real bug bear of mine.
People have complained for years about soccer but in fairness UEFA has hardened up and cleaned up its act big time. None of these type of exchanges with the ref are allowed anymore. If they happen and bad language or threatening behavior is used the ref issues the proper card or sends off the culprit from the field. Plus he can have the manager removed off as well.
If parents are on the sideline giving bad language to the ref or players (especially in front of minors) the ref has the power to stop the game and force the respective management team to deal with offenders or the match could be abandoned and the offending team faces a hefty fine and possible/probable elimination from the competition.
Its high time the GAA brought in proper enforcement to protect refs, linesmen, umpires children and players. Right now it's only getting worse as was depicted again in the Kerry County final at the weekend.
any idea when this is repeated missed it first time around?
Quote from: Nihilist on November 10, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
People have complained for years about soccer but in fairness UEFA has hardened up and cleaned up its act big time. None of these type of exchanges with the ref are allowed anymore. If they happen and bad language or threatening behavior is used the ref issues the proper card or sends off the culprit from the field. Plus he can have the manager removed off as well.
If parents are on the sideline giving bad language to the ref or players (especially in front of minors) the ref has the power to stop the game and force the respective management team to deal with offenders or the match could be abandoned and the offending team faces a hefty fine and possible/probable elimination from the competition.
Its high time the GAA brought in proper enforcement to protect refs, linesmen, umpires children and players. Right now it's only getting worse as was depicted again in the Kerry County final at the weekend.
Do you watch soccer?? When was the last time you seen someone carded for giving the referee a mouthful? I can honestly say I have never seen it. The GAA has the same problem - the black card was introduced for this exact problem yet is rarely used. If it was used regularly then there would be less of it in my opinion. I hate hate hate players mouthing to referees and getting free kicks moved nothing as infuriating!
Quote from: square_ball on November 10, 2015, 01:41:13 PM
Quote from: Nihilist on November 10, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
People have complained for years about soccer but in fairness UEFA has hardened up and cleaned up its act big time. None of these type of exchanges with the ref are allowed anymore. If they happen and bad language or threatening behavior is used the ref issues the proper card or sends off the culprit from the field. Plus he can have the manager removed off as well.
If parents are on the sideline giving bad language to the ref or players (especially in front of minors) the ref has the power to stop the game and force the respective management team to deal with offenders or the match could be abandoned and the offending team faces a hefty fine and possible/probable elimination from the competition.
Its high time the GAA brought in proper enforcement to protect refs, linesmen, umpires children and players. Right now it's only getting worse as was depicted again in the Kerry County final at the weekend.
Do you watch soccer?? When was the last time you seen someone carded for giving the referee a mouthful? I can honestly say I have never seen it. The GAA has the same problem - the black card was introduced for this exact problem yet is rarely used. If it was used regularly then there would be less of it in my opinion. I hate hate hate players mouthing to referees and getting free kicks moved nothing as infuriating!
It happens regularly, plenty of yellow cards dished out for dissent. Certain players like Rooney get away with it though due to their reputation.
Quote from: square_ball on November 10, 2015, 01:41:13 PM
Do you watch soccer?? When was the last time you seen someone carded for giving the referee a mouthful? I can honestly say I have never seen it. The GAA has the same problem - the black card was introduced for this exact problem yet is rarely used. If it was used regularly then there would be less of it in my opinion. I hate hate hate players mouthing to referees and getting free kicks moved nothing as infuriating!
Yes I do watch it and players are yellow carded all the time for dissent. Management also face hefty fines and bans. Have you heard about a guy called Mourinho from Chelsea? Maybe not but he was banned from the pitchside for Chelsea's last match because of his behavior and language.
You boys must be watching different matches to me. Yes yellow cards for dissent for kicking a ball away but for giving the referee abuse? Rarely seen it if so give me a few examples there. Again I would suggest Mourinho is punished for reputation similarly to Rooney not being punished for the same reason. Same as the GAA - if you know you can get away with something then you will keep doing it.
FIFA laws of the game.
Rule 6 - Uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or behavior = Red Card
Cautionable offence
Shows dissent by word or action = Yellow Card
Of course its up to the referees to interpret it and apply it but I know refs take no nonsense at all in underage games I see. they may show more leniency in adult games but if its serious enough it will be dealt with.
Sure the rules of GAA also state you can be punished for abusive language towards an opponent or match official. Doesn't mean it's followed. And to be honest it's our own hypocritical selves that have to hold our hands up on this. How many of us would be apoplectic if one of our lads was sent off for calling the ref a bollox.
(Actually a team mate of mine was sent off for that about 15 years ago). A league final in Cappincur, he was corner forward and called the ref a thundering bollox. Ref turned around and called him over, and the corner forward looked around as if it was 'Who, Me?' even though the next living creature behind him was a cow about 2 fields over.
Quote from: ck on November 10, 2015, 05:05:55 AM
The best bit of this programme was listening to Dave Goldricks exchange with the players. Why can't we hear this during a game as they do in Rugby? It would help referees win support for what they do and what they are subjected to
The GPA always find something to moan about.
http://www.balls.ie/gaa/the-gpa-are-not-happy-with-the-most-important-aspect-of-last-nights-all-ireland-final-documentary/315428
Nice piece about John Kerins. Was Mick McCarthy not on that 1990 team too?
If a referee doesn't get the black card out for abuse early doors he has no chance.
Why leave it up to the better angels of the players nature. Tell the captains amd managers at the start and black card the first bit of abuse.
Referees love to think they are one of the lads and so let players away with verbal murder. This only detracts from amd not adds to any respect.
Didn't see to much abuse of the referee on the documentary. Plenty of whingeing and backchat tbh, but hardly abuse. Noticed a few teammates gently pulling lads away from the referee.
No problems with the referee adressing players by their names, but don't think it looks good when say Dublin, Kerry, Donegal, Mayo are playing a less high profile county. Can see why such a team might feel aggrieved at perceived "chuminess"..
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Nice piece about John Kerins. Was Mick McCarthy not on that 1990 team too?
He was yeah. Maybe I missed it but they didn't mention his passing..bit odd. No mention of Teddy Macs "escapades" either.. ;D
Very good program. Darragh Maloney comes across very well, impressive commentator/ presenter. On a separate note f,ckin hate when a sub comes on and gets rakes of shoulders. McMennamin came on for Dublin and O Mahoney hit him a shit load of illegal shoulders off the ball. This crap sickens me hole, should be a straight red.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 10, 2015, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Nice piece about John Kerins. Was Mick McCarthy not on that 1990 team too?
He was yeah. Maybe I missed it but they didn't mention his passing..bit odd. No mention of Teddy Macs "escapades" either.. ;D
No mention of McCarthy. I thought maybe he wasn't part of that team, hence the omission.
What was the escapade about?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 10, 2015, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Nice piece about John Kerins. Was Mick McCarthy not on that 1990 team too?
He was yeah. Maybe I missed it but they didn't mention his passing..bit odd. No mention of Teddy Macs "escapades" either.. ;D
No mention of McCarthy. I thought maybe he wasn't part of that team, hence the omission.
What was the escapade about?
In a nutshell, Teddy arrived in Croke park early Sunday morning, got lost a few times inside, lost the rag with a steward and didn't attend the jubilee
Quote from: heffo on November 10, 2015, 10:37:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 10, 2015, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Nice piece about John Kerins. Was Mick McCarthy not on that 1990 team too?
He was yeah. Maybe I missed it but they didn't mention his passing..bit odd. No mention of Teddy Macs "escapades" either.. ;D
No mention of McCarthy. I thought maybe he wasn't part of that team, hence the omission.
What was the escapade about?
In a nutshell, Teddy arrived in Croke park early Sunday morning, got lost a few times inside, lost the rag with a steward and didn't attend the jubilee
One week after doing exactly the same thing without getting lost? ;D
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 10:47:37 PM
Quote from: heffo on November 10, 2015, 10:37:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 10, 2015, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Nice piece about John Kerins. Was Mick McCarthy not on that 1990 team too?
He was yeah. Maybe I missed it but they didn't mention his passing..bit odd. No mention of Teddy Macs "escapades" either.. ;D
No mention of McCarthy. I thought maybe he wasn't part of that team, hence the omission.
What was the escapade about?
In a nutshell, Teddy arrived in Croke park early Sunday morning, got lost a few times inside, lost the rag with a steward and didn't attend the jubilee
One week after doing exactly the same thing without getting lost? ;D
For everyone's sake lets just leave it at that!
Aidan O'Mahoney came across as the biggest arsehole in that programme. Him ignoring Coldrick for me was the worst. I didn't think any of the other conversations were that bad.
The stuff with the Rocks opening up Croke Park was pretty boring. Was that not on another programme before?
Quote from: Rudi on November 10, 2015, 08:22:56 PM
Very good program. Darragh Maloney comes across very well, impressive commentator/ presenter. On a separate note f,ckin hate when a sub comes on and gets rakes of shoulders. McMennamin came on for Dublin and O Mahoney hit him a shit load of illegal shoulders off the ball. This crap sickens me hole, should be a straight red.
100% agree and have always said the same, how it is allowed or unpunished really annoys me. Suppose its to show how manly one is.
Is this not available internationally on RTE player? It says so for me but I thought I saw it was available internationally. If not, why bloody not????
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2015, 04:40:19 PM
Is this not available internationally on RTE player? It says so for me but I thought I saw it was available internationally. If not, why bloody not????
Don't worry, no doubt giveballaghback is sensitive to the needs of those outside the jurisdiction and will send anyone the video.
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on November 11, 2015, 08:20:34 AM
Aidan O'Mahoney came across as the biggest arsehole in that programme. Him ignoring Coldrick for me was the worst. I didn't think any of the other conversations were that bad.
The stuff with the Rocks opening up Croke Park was pretty boring. Was that not on another programme before?
Yea, O'Mahony did himself no favours there anyway. I'd say he knew his goose was cooked, still he should be able to face it like a man. Imagine if he tried to argue. That would probably be worse.
thought darragh maloney and david coldrick came across very well. it was very interesting to hear what goes on between players and refs, thought the ref done well in a very intense game.
I went to look up on that cork team to see if mccarthy was on it as i thought he wasn't. Hadn't realised john kerins had died too. Sad to see them both go so young :-\
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on November 11, 2015, 08:20:34 AM
Aidan O'Mahoney came across as the biggest arsehole in that programme. Him ignoring Coldrick for me was the worst. I didn't think any of the other conversations were that bad.
The stuff with the Rocks opening up Croke Park was pretty boring. Was that not on another programme before?
Yea, O'Mahony did himself no favours there anyway. I'd say he knew his goose was cooked, still he should be able to face it like a man. Imagine if he tried to argue. That would probably be worse.
It wasn't just the ignoring of the ref. It was the constant shoving, thumping and barging that was out of order. He did the same with Michael Murphy last year. I think it showed up he's way past it. Doesn't have it in him anymore so he resorts to this.
Kerry aren't cynical though. They play pure football.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2015, 08:49:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on November 11, 2015, 08:20:34 AM
Aidan O'Mahoney came across as the biggest arsehole in that programme. Him ignoring Coldrick for me was the worst. I didn't think any of the other conversations were that bad.
The stuff with the Rocks opening up Croke Park was pretty boring. Was that not on another programme before?
Yea, O'Mahony did himself no favours there anyway. I'd say he knew his goose was cooked, still he should be able to face it like a man. Imagine if he tried to argue. That would probably be worse.
Kerry aren't cynical though. They play pure football.
It's just not in their DNA according to Jack O'Connor (the most ungracious loser in the history of sport since the Macho man Randy Savage)
It's not in their DNA " pfffft , Kerry speak for, "tis what it's all bout boy , just never let on and disguise it through a stance of purified nonsense ,sure oouu know de craic yersel boy "
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2015, 08:29:35 PM
I went to look up on that cork team to see if mccarthy was on it as i thought he wasn't. Hadn't realised john kerins had died too. Sad to see them both go so young :-\
Was McCarthy on that team then?
McCarthy Came on as a sub in 1989 and more or less won the Game for Cork , I can t remember who it was against
but pretty sure he played in 1990 too
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2015, 02:16:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2015, 08:29:35 PM
I went to look up on that cork team to see if mccarthy was on it as i thought he wasn't. Hadn't realised john kerins had died too. Sad to see them both go so young :-\
Was McCarthy on that team then?
I could only find a list of key players in 90 which McCarthy was one of so pretty sure he was... Couldn't see the actual lineup.
He also scored 3 points in semi and 2 in final so sounds like he was.
[Edit] In fact here is a good resource... http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/gaa-history/final-teams/ (http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/gaa-history/final-teams/)
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2015, 08:29:35 PM
I went to look up on that cork team to see if mccarthy was on it as i thought he wasn't. Hadn't realised john kerins had died too. Sad to see them both go so young :-\
The Cork-Meath rivalry was Biblical. I had to choke back a tear when I read this (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/cork-v-meath-latest-chapter-in-an-old-rivalry-26438814.html):
Quote...the tension eased though the 1990 final still had its moments. The teams gradually faded from the limelight but it took the funeral of the Cork goalkeeper of that era, John Kerins, to restore regular contact. Almost the entire Meath team of 1987 and '88 travelled to the funeral.
"The thing that changed it all was John's death. Unfortunately it took a death to break the ice between Meath and Cork. That put it all into perspective," recalled Martin O'Connell in "Boylan", a biographical account of his management.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/cork-double-1990-remembering-football-starsjohn-kerins-and-michael-mccarthy-340587.html
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/cork-v-meath-latest-chapter-in-an-old-rivalry-26438814.html