"this ridiculous NAMA plan"

[Tankie]

At the stage the banks should be allowed to go to the wall. There is no reason to keep them afloat but we are being forced to. Their decline should be managed so that their is not chaos in the Irish banking sector. New banks should be set up to replace them either government banks or privately run institutions. The bad  developers should be allowed go bankrupt and legally banned from working in property development and borrowing amounts over one million euro. The Irish bankers who gave them the money should be banned from working in the financial sector. In this way Ireland can say that we have cleaned up our act as a financial, development and banking entity. when the international banking sector come looking for their money they should be told to "go after the people you gave the money to. They are duds, rogue bankers, bankrupt property developers, why did you lend these people so much money." We the Irish government/people did not lend or borrow that money, you lent it and AIB/BoI/Property developers borrowed it.

Of course the international banking sector have a gun to our heads they will give us a bad credit rating and shut us out of the system casuing a lot of proplblems within our liquidity staerrved economy

in a perfect world that would be the correct course of action but i think most just want to get out of this mess and that way would take us 20+ years to recover....

[Bogball XV]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Market value of 47Bn    As valued by Irish estate agents, who as we all know would never have a cested interest.

Why not let them sell the assets for the 47Bn then and sure we'll pump in the difference, just the 7Bn, which we'll take in equity.  Surely that would lessen the exposure to us taxpayers?

[Gnevin]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Market value of 47Bn    As valued by Irish estate agents, who as we all know would never have a cested interest.

Why not let them sell the assets for the 47Bn then and sure we'll pump in the difference, just the 7Bn, which we'll take in equity.  Surely that would lessen the exposure to us taxpayers?

A fire sale would lead to a total market crash.

[Bogball XV]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Market value of 47Bn    As valued by Irish estate agents, who as we all know would never have a cested interest.

Why not let them sell the assets for the 47Bn then and sure we'll pump in the difference, just the 7Bn, which we'll take in equity.  Surely that would lessen the exposure to us taxpayers?

A fire sale would lead to a total market crash.

you mean the individual valuations add up to 47Bn , but collectively they add up to about 8Bn - sounds a bit like the Dubs  
That aside, somebody better tell lenny quick, because, God love him, he's happy to run with the 47Bn, thinking it is realisable.

[Gnevin]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Market value of 47Bn    As valued by Irish estate agents, who as we all know would never have a cested interest.

Why not let them sell the assets for the 47Bn then and sure we'll pump in the difference, just the 7Bn, which we'll take in equity.  Surely that would lessen the exposure to us taxpayers?

A fire sale would lead to a total market crash.

you mean the individual valuations add up to 47Bn , but collectively they add up to about 8Bn - sounds a bit like the Dubs  
That aside, somebody better tell lenny quick, because, God love him, he's happy to run with the 47Bn, thinking it is realisable.

No I mean if you say to the banks go out and get what you can for assets the prices with spiral lower and lower.

[fearbrags]

''''''''you mean the individual valuations add up to 47Bn , but collectively they add up to about 8Bn - sounds a bit like the Dubs   ''''''''''

Brilliant bogball

You  see Gnevin is  a  true  believer "" in Lenny he  trusts""

[Hound]

Fair play to the Sinn Fein lads for providing such fun and games in the Dail yesterday  .

What utter clowns.  A shambolic excuse for a political party. At least FG and Labour got stuck into them - and rightly so.

[Declan]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Lads 9bn of that 77billlion is rolled over interest and has been included on the "asset" side of the equation - so in fact the wer'e paying 54bn for a loans of 68bn which have been "valued" at 47bn - riddle me that one.
By the way anyone want to take bets on when these great banking institutions will actually start lending again?

[Zapatista]

Have I got this right?

Bad loans from banks = Approx 77bn
Market value on assets = Approx 46bn
We buy bad loans for = Approx 54bn

We borrow another 54bn. We pay 54bn for something the banks loaned 77bn for which is worth 46bn. But we don't actually get the 46bn woth of assets as we are only buying the bad loans. We would need to wait untill the assets can be sold by the agents for us to be repaid back. If assets are sold and money paid back to NAMA it won't go towrads our National Debt but will be loaned to finish projects and stimulate the market again. In the meantime though, the banks have 54bn (a loss of 23bn) which we hope they will use to loan to business. So every man woman and child in the country owes 54bn between them to the bank we borrow the 54bn  from (is it the ECB?).

If this fails we will be patying back 54bn. If this works we will be paying back 54bn and have created the same situation that has got us here in the first place.

[Bogball XV]

BOI shares trading at 3.23 - 3.25 up 30 odd today and up from a low of 12c in March 09 (just before NAMA was conceived of).
AIB shares trading at 3.32 - 3.38 up 70 odd today and up from a low of circa 20c in March 09.

Surely that tells us all we need to know about this 'ridiculous NAMA plan'.

I still think these shares have to major sells as their current valuations would appear irrational given the write-offs coming down the line, and just wait until residential loans start hitting trouble, which will lag the other problem loans.

[Zapatista]

Fair play to the Sinn Fein lads for providing such fun and games in the Dail yesterday  .

What utter clowns.  A shambolic excuse for a political party. At least FG and Labour got stuck into them - and rightly so.

I thought it was brilliant. It made people realise what was actually happening yesterday. After that stunt the entire media were talking about how NAMA of importance to the lives of us and future generations and that it shouldn't go by without a National debate. NAMA is probably the biggest gamble in Ireland since 1916 and will effect the Country for years to come. In fact in accordance with the Irish constitution we should be having a referendum on NAMA.

If Enda was that worried about missing out on debate perhaps the Dail should have started back two weeks ago. Labour had nothing to offer the debate and would have been better thrown out along with SF.

[Gnevin]

Fair play to the Sinn Fein lads for providing such fun and games in the Dail yesterday  .

What utter clowns.  A shambolic excuse for a political party. At least FG and Labour got stuck into them - and rightly so.

I thought it was brilliant. It made people realise what was actually happening yesterday. After that stunt the entire media were talking about how NAMA of importance to the lives of us and future generations and that it shouldn't go by without a National debate.

You couldn't even understand him he should of just stood up and shouted rabble , rabble  for 40 minutes. The entire media where talking about how important it was before the SF lad achieved nothing or do you think RTÉ and Newstalk just changed their schedule after they heard the SF rant?

[Zapatista]

You couldn't even understand him he should of just stood up and shouted rabble , rabble  for 40 minutes. The entire media where talking about how important it was before the SF lad achieved nothing or do you think RTÉ and Newstalk just changed their schedule after they heard the SF rant?

Newstalk definatley changed the mood of their discussion. Morgan captured the mood of the Nation and related to Cowen in the Dail. Anywhere else at an other time it would have been ignored. It had more effect on Cowen and FF than any march or protest could have. It was a stunt and the listeners of RTE and Newstalk perked up and paid attention. I have wanted to challenge Cowen on his lies for a long time but have not had the oportunity and would have been ignored anyway. Morgan used the best weapon available to challenge Cowen, the Dail, NAMA and a Mandate.

FF have lied to the people for years from the Dail. Bertie Ahern lied to the people from the Dail. John O'Donaghue uses his place in the dail to protect himself. McDowell used it to accuse innocent people of crimes. Abuse of the Dail has been happening for years. It should not be a place to protect people Guilty of lies and I think Morgan was right to challenge them in the DAil.

[Hound]

Morgan did no more than make a total eejit of himself and give people something to laugh about. He was called a clown on RTE, and that was the perfect description.

[magpie seanie]

BOI shares trading at 3.23 - 3.25 up 30 odd today and up from a low of 12c in March 09 (just before NAMA was conceived of).
AIB shares trading at 3.32 - 3.38 up 70 odd today and up from a low of circa 20c in March 09.

Surely that tells us all we need to know about this 'ridiculous NAMA plan'.

I still think these shares have to major sells as their current valuations would appear irrational given the write-offs coming down the line, and just wait until residential loans start hitting trouble, which will lag the other problem loans.

Exactly. The banks are sorted and we, the taxpayers, are fooked. The market is laughing at us.

By the way on the SF guy - a total clown who achieved nothing. He only highlighted what we knew already - SF are a joke party with no policies and no answers.