Martin Mc Guinness is one of the great leaders of the modern times !

[Evil Genius]

it isn't 15 years since Gerry and Martin were predicting a United Ireland by 2016. They've settled for a lot less. Either they were bluffing at the time, or we've seen the results of negotiation and compromise.

Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort.

EG saved me providing the sources.

Let me help you with that one:

"It will rain on Monday" = prediction
"I see no reason why it might not rain on Monday" = not a prediction

Maguire01 is not the one in need of help, here, since he, I and everyone else understands perfectly the meaning, and intended message of, "Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort"...

Anyhow, Donagh Ulick, you're surely wasted on here when you could be making your fortune proof-reading the small print in Disclaimers on cheap Insurance Policies.

If nothing else, it must pay better than your paper round from Connolly House...

[lynchbhoy]

it isn't 15 years since Gerry and Martin were predicting a United Ireland by 2016. They've settled for a lot less. Either they were bluffing at the time, or we've seen the results of negotiation and compromise.

Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort.

EG saved me providing the sources.

Let me help you with that one:

"It will rain on Monday" = prediction
"I see no reason why it might not rain on Monday" = not a prediction

Maguire01 is not the one in need of help, here, since he, I and everyone else understands perfectly the meaning, and intended message of, "Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort"...

Anyhow, Donagh Ulick, you're surely wasted on here when you could be making your fortune proof-reading the small print in Disclaimers on cheap Insurance Policies.

If nothing else, it must pay better than your paper round from Connolly House...

ah come off it - thats not a 'prediction' as in the 'absolute prediction you are trying tomake out.
Yes a prediction that in time there will be reunification - and it 'MAY' be x date.
read into it what you want, as you do.
If others read that as well, then fine  -people will see what they want to see.

Republicans know there will be reunification and when the ball starts rolling , it will be faster than some think.
The underlying reasons as I have always said, will be money driven.
A majority swing will be the first part - but if the economy is going down thetoilet, this will affect unionists/loyalists too and as the south is starting to recover (and has been for a while now) we are well ahead here and the problem has yet to hit the north of Ireland, and when the problem hits England and its government, they will be certainly thinking of influencing unionists/loyalists and those wanting to retain the status quo (nationalists too as its purely financial reasons for them also)- then the north will be hung out to dry and the only answe then will be to rejoin the south !
Not sure will we want yez then !

but plenty like evil myles have seen the writing on the wall already and have jumped ship over to England a long time ago !!

[Evil Genius]

How do you know that Ulick will be proof-reading the small print in Disclaimers on cheap Insurance Policies?

There is a difference between a suggestion ("could") and a prediction ("might").

Do you do lottery numbers too?

Sure do.
Here are four for free: "2", "0", "1" and "6".
But I'd advise you that they feckin' worthless...

[Maguire01]

With respect , the Brits out goal came a long time after the fightback started.
The initial goal was to stop the persecution , oppression and systematic targeting of nationalist/Irish/ working class and to break the glass ceiling of second class citizenship and the establishments violent methods of doing this through 'legal' and pseudo legal gangs employed to do the dirty work in colusion with legal crown forces.
After a while, it was perceived that it would be easier to just rid the country of the Brits and their puppetmasters and warmongering lackeys as well as the old persecutional policies they retained to maintain the status quo and two tiered society.
So with a fairly equal six counties, the original requirement has been won. The Brits will leave at some stage ( their gov right of jurisdictional control that is) and reunification will take place.
But there is no rush on that. People can live normal lives now - and that is what people always wanted and indeed died for.
I just think you have listened to the media spin on this - and the spin has been dishing out incorrect facts intentionally for over four decades. So I can understand why people think this. Sinn Fein are
as bad themselves at the other end of this pr war!
I like a few of the sf ers, but there's a lot of sihte that is pushing me away from putting up with their statements etc.
Btw , there is no alternative. They are all sihte - north and south ... IMO

I haven't disagreed with you on the triggers that started the conflict, but my original post that you responded to wasn't specific to the start of the conflict, but to the conflict as a whole: "The ability to convince all but a few republicans to settle for a lot less than they had been fighting for for years" . The so-called 'long war' stage started in the 70s - the objectives were clear (see the 'Green Book') - it was a 'Brits out' strategy.

I maintain that the GFA was a compromise for republicans - it's only to be expected where opposing sides negotiate, and is something that most people welcome. Adams himself has said it was a compromise - using that very word.

So I can't see how i'm falling for any 'media spin'

sorry, but my answer is still the same. Your view of what was being fought for has been tainted by the hype.
No offense, but irrespective of how long you have been there, you obv just dont know.

I'd mostly agree though with what you say about the GFA. Sure we even voted to get rid of articles 2 and 3 as we have been told that by doing so, it would provide a smoother path towards peace and eventual re-unification. Compromise is easy now that there is peace.
The republicans dont exactly like all (if any) that adams has to say, plus re-unification is still bubbling along, just now in a different way and we also know the terms and tipping points that will enable this eventuality.

Tainted by the hype? What hype? I've referenced the objectives of the 'long war' as expressed by those engaged in it - it's not hype, nor opinion.

[Maguire01]

it isn't 15 years since Gerry and Martin were predicting a United Ireland by 2016. They've settled for a lot less. Either they were bluffing at the time, or we've seen the results of negotiation and compromise.

Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort.

EG saved me providing the sources.

Let me help you with that one:

"It will rain on Monday" = prediction
"I see no reason why it might not rain on Monday" = not a prediction

Maguire01 is not the one in need of help, here, since he, I and everyone else understands perfectly the meaning, and intended message of, "Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort"...

Anyhow, Donagh Ulick, you're surely wasted on here when you could be making your fortune proof-reading the small print in Disclaimers on cheap Insurance Policies.

If nothing else, it must pay better than your paper round from Connolly House...

ah come off it - thats not a 'prediction' as in the 'absolute prediction you are trying tomake out.
Yes a prediction that in time there will be reunification - and it 'MAY' be x date.
read into it what you want, as you do.
If others read that as well, then fine  -people will see what they want to see.

To be fair, whilst you can argue to an extent that they weren't explicit predictions, the statements were a bit stronger than 'MAY' be. It conveyed a belief or confidence that it was possible.

On top of that, whilst the media widely reported them as 'predictions' at the time, I can't see any record of SF disputing that interpretation or arguing that 'prediction is a bit strong - we're saying it's something that MAY happen'.

[lynchbhoy]

Certainly your view resembles nothing that I would have known. You can believe what you want to, but that to me is a very skewed view that was mostly peddled by anti-republicans in the last couple of decades and why I say you may be a victim of the 'hype' - as hype or misinformation is what it is !! I would pair this with your latter arrival in the six counties.
Living in the south for the past 30 years I know how events are reported and do not resemble what had happened in the six counties!!
I'll gladly talk to you at/after a match sometime about it though.


As for the predictions - prediction of eventuality yes , no firm view on date though!
However that's closer to being an 'opinion'!!!

I'd agree that various republicans have made predictions of reunification, and at some stage they will undoubtedly be correct.
it reminds me of the predictions down here of the bubble bursting for 10 years, eventually it came true somewhat, but more or less way after everyone had exhausted their myriad of predictions over the preceeding decade !
That was an accurate prediction (of sorts) but not the date - similar to the sf reunification predictions - imo.

[orangeman]

He's definitely leading from the front and is prepared to forget about past conflict and division. It seems there's nothing he won't do and no principle that can't be put to the side for the sake of progress.

Martin is prepared to meet the Queen

Martin McGuinness, who has admitted being second in command of the IRA in Derry in the 1970s, looks set to stand for the
Martin McGuinness has said he will be prepared to meet all heads of state "without exception" if he is elected President of Ireland.

Sinn Fein announced on Friday that it would be supporting Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister for the role.

Returning from a trip to the US on Saturday, Mr McGuinness said he hoped his candidacy would not be divisive.

When the Queen made a historic first visit to May, Sinn Fein did not take part in any of the main ceremonies.

Speaking to the BBC on Saturday morning, Mr McGuinness said he had given careful consideration to his decision to stand.

He added that he considered himself to be part of a new atmosphere in the country.

A former IRA commander, Mr McGuinness has been Deputy First Minister since 2007.

While he is likely to face significant scrutiny of his paramilitary past, his party colleagues believe his high profile during the peace process should help build the Sinn Fein vote.

[deiseach]

Martin McGuinness, who has admitted being second in command of the IRA in Derry in the 1970s, looks set to stand for the
Martin McGuinness has said he will be prepared to meet all heads of state "without exception" if he is elected President of Ireland.

In fairness to the Shinners they've always had respect for the offices they occupy. Meeting the Queen as President would be no way as earth-shattering as when Alex Maskey performed his duties as Lord Mayor of Belfast to lay a wreath to commemorate the Somme - and that was nine years ago. He never got the credit he should have gotten for that

[snippets]

There is no doubt that Mc Guinness is the Nelson Mandela of Ireland, he has done the crime, time and primetime.  He is the embodiment of a new Ireland, battlescarred, but positive, damaged goods who makes up for hir role in the war by reaching out the hand further than the rest.  A giant of a man,  This move will see all the Southern prejudices to nationalists in the North, nakedly exposed.  Watch for the dirty game now within the press.   The difference between the Irish in the North and the Irish in the South was that for 90 years the Northern man felt rejected by the Irish, the Southern man felt rejected by the British.  Suddenly Norris looks credible and deliverable after all.   

[muppet]

There is no doubt that Mc Guinness is the Nelson Mandela of Ireland, he has done the crime, time and primetime.  He is the embodiment of a new Ireland, battlescarred, but positive, damaged goods who makes up for hir role in the war by reaching out the hand further than the rest.  A giant of a man,  This move will see all the Southern prejudices to nationalists in the North, nakedly exposed.  Watch for the dirty game now within the press.   The difference between the Irish in the North and the Irish in the South was that for 90 years the Northern man felt rejected by the Irish, the Southern man felt rejected by the British.  Suddenly Norris looks credible and deliverable after all.   

So it has been a model game to date?

[lynchbhoy]

There is no doubt that Mc Guinness is the Nelson Mandela of Ireland, he has done the crime, time and primetime.  He is the embodiment of a new Ireland, battlescarred, but positive, damaged goods who makes up for hir role in the war by reaching out the hand further than the rest.  A giant of a man,  This move will see all the Southern prejudices to nationalists in the North, nakedly exposed.  Watch for the dirty game now within the press.   The difference between the Irish in the North and the Irish in the South was that for 90 years the Northern man felt rejected by the Irish, the Southern man felt rejected by the British.  Suddenly Norris looks credible and deliverable after all.   

So it has been a model game to date?

good point !!
the fecking meeja have raised up norris then put out the stories to bring him crashing down and now are rallying the pages to get him back in for inclusion again.
McGuinness going for the presidency will give them some milage now !


Like McGuinness, but think its a big mistake to push him for the presidency.

[Rossfan]

I'll be voting  McGuinness no.1.

[The Worker]

How do you know that Ulick will be proof-reading the small print in Disclaimers on cheap Insurance Policies?

There is a difference between a suggestion ("could") and a prediction ("might").

Do you do lottery numbers too?

Sure do.
Here are four for free: "2", "0", "1" and "6".
But I'd advise you that they feckin' worthless...

doesnt look like you do the lotto if your picking 0   

[orangeman]

Martin is definitely pushing the boundaries and under Martin's leadership literally he could say and do anything and get away with it. The Chuckle brothers seemed to go down well, the handstand, the dinner at the very, very long table and now Martin says he likes Lizzie. He's definitely one of the great leaders in modern times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29584402

[muppet]

Credit where it is due. He has shown real leadership at times and is one of the very, very few in these islands to do so.

"She knows my history. She knows I was a member of the IRA. She knows I was in conflict with her soldiers, yet both of us were prepared to rise above all of that."