Adams' brother sought over alleged abuse

[give her dixie]

Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila

Reading back through this thread Leo, past and present, you would think that Suzanne Breen was on trail and not Liam Adams who was convicted of raping a child, and the subsequent cover up by bis brother Gerry

[give her dixie]

Stormont system used 3,000 times in six months in bid to access pornographic websites

BY ADRIAN RUTHERFORD – 03 OCTOBER 2013

Nearly 3,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites from computers at Stormont in the last six months, it can be revealed.


Around 16 visits a day were recorded to pages with "adult content" via the internal system which is used by MLAs and their staff.

The Assembly said all the requests were blocked, and no inappropriate material was actually viewed.

While it is possible that some pages may have been accessed accidentally, it will raise questions about whether internet access is being misused by some people.

Ukip MLA David McNarry said he was disgusted and called for stricter rules on internet access.

"It is almost institutionalised porn-seeking – it is a very serious abuse of trust," he said.

"I would not like to think that anyone working for me and operating a computer is looking at pornographic material.

"A directive should go out to all MLAs and staff at the Assembly that this is unacceptable and must stop."

According to the Assembly, 2,970 attempts have been made to access websites with "adult content" since April.

The figures were disclosed following a Freedom of Information request by the Belfast Telegraph.

The response said: "In the last six months 2,970 requests were made to access websites classified as containing adult content.

"All 2,970 requests for this category of content were blocked by the Northern Ireland Assembly firewalls. During this period no websites classified as containing adult content were accessed by Assembly computers in Parliament Buildings."

The Assembly was asked if there were possible reasons for adult websites being accessed other than a deliberate attempt to view porn, but did not comment.

It was also unable to say how many people have access to Parliament Buildings' computer system.

Last month it emerged over 300,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites at the Houses of Parliament in the past year.

Almost 850 attempts to click on adult websites were blocked at Westminster each day.

One particularly popular site was 'Out of Town Affairs', a dating site for those wanting to engage in extra-marital affairs, which garnered 52,000 hits in seven months.

The figure covered devices linked to the Parliamentary Network, including those used by MPs and peers, their staff and other employees.

Around 5,000 people currently work on the parliamentary estate.

It was uncomfortable reading for David Cameron, who has demanded that internet service providers do more to stop children viewing inappropriate content online.

The Prime Minister wants an "opt-in" system so customers have to ask service providers not to block adult content.

Online pornography was "corroding childhood" and "distorting" children's understanding of sex and relationships, he argued.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/stormont-system-used-3000-times-in-six-months-in-bid-to-access-pornographic-websites-29630029.html

[give her dixie]

How Liam Adams' daughter Aine challenged the most powerful republican family on the island

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/how-liam-adams-daughter-aine-challenged-the-most-powerful-republican-family-on-the-island-29626237.html

BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013

Aine Dahlstrom is a woman of the most amazing courage and determination. While it's never easy for any victim of rape or child abuse, she had to take on the most powerful people and organisations in society in her fight for justice.


Little did she know when, as a 13-year-old girl scribbling down the words on a school jotter – "mummy, my daddy makes me sleep with him" – the huge battle that lay ahead of her.

Sometimes it seemed like everything was stacked against her.

The police, social services, and her uncle Gerry Adams were all hopelessly inadequate in their response to what Aine had gone through.

Sometimes the pressure on her took its toll.

On the first day Aine was due to give evidence in court, she was so stressed she took pains in her arms and chest and had to be taken to hospital.

But she was back in court the next day giving evidence, and never for one second did she think of giving up. Reporting to the police what her father had done to her was a brave move for a young teenage girl in 1987.

Even in cases of child abuse, talking to the police carried risks for people in republican areas.

Aine went to police because she'd learned her father had a daughter from a new relationship and she was worried for the child.

But the response Aine and her mother told the court they received from some police – more interested in asking for information on IRA activities than investigating the abuse – was abysmal.

Fearing their lives were in danger, they reluctantly withdrew their complaint.

They told the court they were effectively abandoned by police and social services – who also were informed of the abuse – and left with no one in the world to trust except themselves.

To everybody else, the issue was dead.

But, even after her previous experience, Aine returned to the police in 2006 and asked to have the case reopened.

Detectives didn't seek a face-to-face meeting with her until eight months later, she claimed.

"I believe they didn't want to reopen a can of worms," she said.

Aine has lodged a complaint with the Police Ombudsman.

But Aine wasn't just standing up against the state. By making a complaint against a member of the most powerful republican family on this island, Aine was challenging other interests.

While Gerry Adams said he believed her allegations against her father, he was far from supportive, she claimed.

After she and her mother travelled with him to Donegal to confront her father, he didn't offer the help that would be expected from a concerned uncle.

He made no contact with her to see how she was coping. There wasn't even a birthday or Christmas card.

"The only present I ever received from him was a signed copy of his autobiography, Before The Dawn, in 1996," she said.

"I was horrified when I opened the book and read the foreword. He had thanked all his brothers and sisters, 'especially Liam'.

"I threw the book in the bin. It made me feel sick. Imagine sending the person you believed had been abused by your brother a book thanking that brother."

Liam Adams worked with several youth groups in Belfast and Dundalk.

Again, it was Aine doing the job that the state should have been doing in terms of protecting young people potentially at risk. She had heard that her father was working with youth groups in west Belfast but didn't know which ones.

She raised it with Gerry Adams, telling him she feared children were at risk.

She said he told her that working with young people was "Liam's way of trying to make up to the community for what he'd done" to her.

"I considered standing on the streets of west Belfast handing out leaflets saying, 'Liam Adams is a paedophile'. That's how desperate I was," she said.

When she found out the identity of the groups concerned, she visited them herself and expressed her fears.

Yesterday's verdict should bring Aine some personal closure. But she was right yesterday when she said that Liam Adams' conviction wasn't a victory or cause for celebration.

That such a heroic and persistent effort was required from one solitary west Belfast woman to bring a paedophile to account casts all those who let her down over the decades in an appalling light.

[Saffrongael]

Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila

Reading back through this thread Leo, past and present, you would thing that Suzanne Breen was on trail and not Liam Adams who was convicted of raping a child, and the subsequent cover up by bis brother Gerry

It's an age old Sinn Fein tactic, smear and impugn the reputation of anyone that isn't playing ball.

[Maguire01]

She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which  blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case

Not clear on what you're getting at here Main Street. What case is she trying to prove? And what other ways could incidents in her article be interpreted?

For example, Gerry is reported as having said he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3, however, photographs apparently show him at his brother's wedding 10 years after he said he was supposedly estranged from his brother. The article also states that he maintained regular contact with his brother, "staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard." How many ways is this open to interpretation? I'm genuinely interested if i'm missing something here.

the article says: "Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged." Again, what are we to interpret here?

She finishes the article with this line: The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history. Is she off the mark?

Adams is not clinging, that's patently ridiculous.
There's nothing for him to survive, there is no challenge to his credibility arising from this case.

It's not a question of what other ways her article can be interpreted, it's her interpretation of evidence that she puts forward as supporting her argument that's seriously at fault.
If we are to trust her judgement, then she has to be accurate in all evidence she finds worthy to present as supporting her case, that Adams is toxic. What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf. Quite frankly, she doesn't meet that standard. Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account, much of what she presents is innuendo. 

Agreed that he's not "clinging" - there's clearly no one in SF that's willing to challenge him.

But how can you say that "What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf"? Or that "Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account"? There are photos of him with his brother during the time they were supposedly estranged.  Is that not fairly black and white? Is that not evidence of lies?

And of course it challenges his credibility - again, it appears not from within SF or those loyal to the party - but to any objective person, how can it not?

Are you objective Maguire? You have no axe to grind with Sinn Fein or Adams?
For my part, I am no Sinn Feiner and am not a member or supporter of any political party or have any great gra for any politician in Ireland.
Can you say the same?

Am I objective? I'm no fan of SF, but I think i'm capable of looking at the information on the table and making a reasonable judgement. Like yourself, i'm not (or never have been) a member of any political party. I'd have preferences, but no great loyalty - i've cast my ballot for more that one party since i've been able to vote.

I am quite aware of the questions to do with child abuse and the concerted criminal cover ups.

Adams has already answered questions in detail and concerning his 'estrangement' in court. You have to read those questions and answers. You also have to refer back to the original interviews with Adams and hear what Adams has actually said in them. Why on earth should I take Breen's word on it? I make up my own mind based on hearing and reading what Adams has said.  This is  a pathetic c**k and bull effort to sensationalise this sordid affair.
Breen is not just poor, she is sensationalist and poor.

As for Adams' answers in court - and the original interviews - i'd have to read them again, but I do recall them being unconvicing at the time.

And yes, I agree that there was a definite element of sensationalism about Breen's article - particularly the headlines and the conclusion - but the substance of the seemed fairly consistent with what was established in the 2010 interview and subsequent court proceedings. But happy if you can point to any contradictions or inaccuracies - i'm open to correction.

[Maguire01]

Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila

I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.

Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.

Try again:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity over claims that his brother Liam — her father — had repeatedly raped her from when she was four years old. Aine says that she would have been willing at any time to accompany Gerry Adams to meet Sinn Fein and youth groups in west Belfast to warn them about the allegations against her father."
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/we-received-no-support-from-gerry-adams-he-didnt-even-send-a-birthday-card-28514105.html

Suzanne Breen again twisting words,read all of the statement yes she said if she knew that her anonymity was the problem she would have told Gerry it didn't matter.How did he know she thought that unless she told him which she didn't.
.

But you suggested that she had explicitly requested anonymity and that's why Gerry didn't act.

Of course she did she only gave up that in 2009 when she went public on the insight program.

Read the link above: "Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity"

Is she lying? If not, who is?

[Orior]

I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.

The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?

[nrico2006]

I ma no SF lover but I find it very harsh that the focus is on a relative of the sex offender and not the sex offender.  The daughter mentions Adams sending her a book in 1996 and how she couldn;t believe he would do that, but when is he first (according to the daughter) meant to have been made aware of the accusations against his brother?

[LeoMc]

I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.

The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?

Is there any circumstance where a family member had been abused and the paedophile was still at large that you would not do something about it?

[Saffrongael]

I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.

The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?

It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.

[Main Street]

Am I objective? I'm no fan of SF, but I think i'm capable of looking at the information on the table and making a reasonable judgement. Like yourself, i'm not (or never have been) a member of any political party. I'd have preferences, but no great loyalty - i've cast my ballot for more that one party since i've been able to vote.

You consider yourself capable of objectivity on matters to do with Sinn Fein?
Well, if I was to measure up what you have written about Sinn Fein on this board  I'd say the vast majority would be taking a jaundiced view of SF and if I compared it to what you write about other nationalist politicians in the north,
would I get a more favourable impression of that?

And yes, I agree that there was a definite element of sensationalism about Breen's article - particularly the headlines and the conclusion - but the substance of the seemed fairly consistent with what was established in the 2010 interview and subsequent court proceedings. But happy if you can point to any contradictions or inaccuracies - i'm open to correction.

You need to be more forensic than that. Primarily, you are siding with Breen's interpretation and you assume that you remember Adam's testimony and that you remember it objectively.

Adams not going to the police before 2006 is no issue with me, I can accept his explanation. Not going to the police in 1987 when he accepted that his niece was abused by his brother, definitely no issue with that.
Adams' relationship with his brother? yes there was some contact but quite obviously and it's beyond dispute, that their relationship was estranged.
By my understanding of estrangement, Gerry was estranged from his brother. No evidence presented by Breen contradicts that Adam's was estranged from his brother. But perhaps  Gerry's relationship with his brother appears a normal brotherly relationship to you?

We get another piece reported on the BBC news.
'Gerry said that he told the authorities at a youth project in Clonard, where Liam Adams worked part-time between 1998 and 2003, about the allegations against his brother.
The authorities at Clonard have said they have no record of any complaint against Liam Adams.'

We have verbal evidence of a statement from Adams. The Clonard people might be saying,  yeah we heard him but he didn't write it down in a formal letter or we didn't write it down after he told us or if we did write it down we can't find it and even if we could find it, we won't, because it will put us in a bad light. So better we just say we have no record of it. And when we say we have no record of it, it's the truth, we are not telling a lie.

You, with a long history on this board of being 'antaganostic' against SF will automatically believe that Gerry is being dubious and Clonard's answer damns Gerry. You regard the Clonard answer as being valid evidence to disprove gerry's statement.
The objective perspective is, Gerry's account stands, there's no solid reason to disbelieve him. Gerry's account of informing Clonard is just as valid as them saying we have no record of it, and it could be more valid.
One can certainly question his efforts to conceal his brother's crimes from coming out into the public arena.

[seafoid]

Stormont system used 3,000 times in six months in bid to access pornographic websites

BY ADRIAN RUTHERFORD – 03 OCTOBER 2013

Nearly 3,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites from computers at Stormont in the last six months, it can be revealed.


Around 16 visits a day were recorded to pages with "adult content" via the internal system which is used by MLAs and their staff.

The Assembly said all the requests were blocked, and no inappropriate material was actually viewed.

While it is possible that some pages may have been accessed accidentally, it will raise questions about whether internet access is being misused by some people.

Ukip MLA David McNarry said he was disgusted and called for stricter rules on internet access.

"It is almost institutionalised porn-seeking – it is a very serious abuse of trust," he said.

"I would not like to think that anyone working for me and operating a computer is looking at pornographic material.

"A directive should go out to all MLAs and staff at the Assembly that this is unacceptable and must stop."

According to the Assembly, 2,970 attempts have been made to access websites with "adult content" since April.

The figures were disclosed following a Freedom of Information request by the Belfast Telegraph.

The response said: "In the last six months 2,970 requests were made to access websites classified as containing adult content.

"All 2,970 requests for this category of content were blocked by the Northern Ireland Assembly firewalls. During this period no websites classified as containing adult content were accessed by Assembly computers in Parliament Buildings."

The Assembly was asked if there were possible reasons for adult websites being accessed other than a deliberate attempt to view porn, but did not comment.

It was also unable to say how many people have access to Parliament Buildings' computer system.

Last month it emerged over 300,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites at the Houses of Parliament in the past year.

Almost 850 attempts to click on adult websites were blocked at Westminster each day.

One particularly popular site was 'Out of Town Affairs', a dating site for those wanting to engage in extra-marital affairs, which garnered 52,000 hits in seven months.

The figure covered devices linked to the Parliamentary Network, including those used by MPs and peers, their staff and other employees.

Around 5,000 people currently work on the parliamentary estate.

It was uncomfortable reading for David Cameron, who has demanded that internet service providers do more to stop children viewing inappropriate content online.

The Prime Minister wants an "opt-in" system so customers have to ask service providers not to block adult content.

Online pornography was "corroding childhood" and "distorting" children's understanding of sex and relationships, he argued.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/stormont-system-used-3000-times-in-six-months-in-bid-to-access-pornographic-websites-29630029.html

Private Eye had something on that recently. It looks more like an IT failure- couple of PCs infected and automatically accessing porn- botnet stuff - rather than MPS actually jerking off in Westminster.

[lawnseed]

I read somewhere that internet porn accounts for 65% of time spent on line world wide its twice as big as any search engine

[deiseach]

We have verbal evidence of a statement from Adams. The Clonard people might be saying,  yeah we heard him but he didn't write it down in a formal letter or we didn't write it down after he told us or if we did write it down we can't find it and even if we could find it, we won't, because it will put us in a bad light. So better we just say we have no record of it. And when we say we have no record of it, it's the truth, we are not telling a lie.

You, with a long history on this board of being 'antaganostic' against SF will automatically believe that Gerry is being dubious and Clonard's answer damns Gerry. You regard the Clonard answer as being valid evidence to disprove gerry's statement.
The objective perspective is, Gerry's account stands, there's no solid reason to disbelieve him. Gerry's account of informing Clonard is just as valid as them saying we have no record of it, and it could be more valid.
One can certainly question his efforts to conceal his brother's crimes from coming out into the public arena.

That's a torturous way of looking at it. They can't prove he didn't say it - you can't prove a negative - so the onus is on him to prove he did say it.

[Orior]

I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.

The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?

It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.

Is there any evidence that he abused or was interesting in abusing anyone else beside his daughter? I know that is a very callous statement, and I don't mean to belittle the pain felt by Liam Adams daughter. Has Liam Adams other children disowned him?

PS. I have an acquaintance who had to give evidence against his father who had killed my acquaintance's mother. Even though he hated his father, it was not as straight forward as you might think.