At the risk of total pollution by our friendly neighbours what would Armagh supporters like to see happen next year? New management? Geezer stays but with a change in direction?
Its the latter for me. I've been assuming for a while Ciaran McKeever's fingerprints have been all over our style of play (last 2 seasons particularly) as it developed into the current eye cancer. I believe McGeeney has an agreement to stay until the end of next season anyway, I hope he stays along with the more senior players for at least another season. There has to be a change in style or at the very least mindset, which is very easy to say but much harder to implement. We're obviously not a million miles away as it stands.
Armagh, like all other counties, needs a strategy for the new championship. Would it be possible to have a different style of play against Ulster teams outside of the ulster championship ?
Question is, if Geezer goes, who's out there and free?
You could well have Armagh, Donegal & Tyrone looking managers for 2024 season.. Armagh's current crop is the best it will be in years, they have zero talent coming through, compared to other ulster counties.
No coincidence that the two freshest teams over the weekend looked to be Dublin and Kerry.
This current set up is playing into their hands even more than before and that's saying something.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2023, 10:37:54 AM
At the risk of total pollution by our friendly neighbours what would Armagh supporters like to see happen next year? New management? Geezer stays but with a change in direction?
Its the latter for me. I've been assuming for a while Ciaran McKeever's fingerprints have been all over our style of play (last 2 seasons particularly) as it developed into the current eye cancer. I believe McGeeney has an agreement to stay until the end of next season anyway, I hope he stays along with the more senior players for at least another season. There has to be a change in style or at the very least mindset, which is very easy to say but much harder to implement. We're obviously not a million miles away as it stands.
At the minute it feels as though time has almost ran out for the current side. Players like Grugan, Forker, Soupy, Murnin and Morgan are in their twilight years but without them the drop off could be huge and if Geezer went you could see a mass exodus of players. So I'd give him one more season.
The feeling is a lot different than after last season though when it seemed like we had a change of approach for the better after the Ballybofey defeat. The football was thrills and spills stuff that got you off the edge of your seat. The contrast with this season could not be any starker. I don't know whether that is down tp McKeever putting his stamp on things defensively or Donaghy not being able to get his attacking ideas across but ultimately the buck still stops with the manager. So I'd be a bit torn if we were being forced to continue watching more of the same stuff next season. And that is the biggest issue for me, not the actual defeats themselves. I still think we need to be careful what we wish for and for that reason I'd keep him in charge for another season with the caveat that there needs to be a change in approach.
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
Maybe put all the focus into road bowls?
:P
I think it's a difficult position for Armagh.
They seem to rate geezer and the players, so I'd imagine it will be more of the same for another year and work on transition from defence to attack.
Maybe find a scoring forward from somewhere to play off RON.
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
Can't believe I'm agreeing with you but that is precisely it.
We've neglected underage badly since 2009 and haven't even been competitive at either grade never mind competing to win Ulster titles. Thats where we need to start and we need to look at how those jobs are handed out because the development process hasn't been up to the level required. We aren't in a great place moving forward and could easily find ourselves languishing in division 3 in a few years with the lack of talent coming through and the current standard of the club game in the county.
Monaghan and Mayo have proven that you can remain competitive despite a raft of older players retiring or being phased out but the difference is that those counties have good underage systems and development pathways in place. I don't know whether Armagh will be as successful in being competitive at the top table over the next few years.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 03, 2023, 12:51:44 PM
Maybe put all the focus into road bowls?
:P
I think it's a difficult position for Armagh.
They seem to rate geezer and the players, so I'd imagine it will be more of the same for another year and work on transition from defence to attack.
Maybe find a scoring forward from somewhere to play off RON.
most of us accept geezer is doing his best but tbf his limitations were exposed on saturday
we were scared to express ourselves and stifled in attack
it was painful to watch
genuinely think we have become over defensive all year and moved away from what we were good at
at no stage have we won a game comfortably ( save for Antrim and Down who were div 3)with this new system and more often than not have conceded late to either lose the game or to draw the game.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 03, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
Can't believe I'm agreeing with you but that is precisely it.
We've neglected underage badly since 2009 and haven't even been competitive at either grade never mind competing to win Ulster titles. Thats where we need to start and we need to look at how those jobs are handed out because the development process hasn't been up to the level required. We aren't in a great place moving forward and could easily find ourselves languishing in division 3 in a few years with the lack of talent coming through and the current standard of the club game in the county.
Monaghan and Mayo have proven that you can remain competitive despite a raft of older players retiring or being phased out but the difference is that those counties have good underage systems and development pathways in place. I don't know whether Armagh will be as successful in being competitive at the top table over the next few years.
Trailer - I'm going to have to change my opinion of you. Good post. Underage is the issue. Like him or loathe McGeeney's been working with threadbare resources. As yellow card says, we haven't been competitive at underage for years. We have new guys coming onto the panel every year who've not won a championship game at underage. it's not just about winning Ulsters or All -Irelands, it's being competitive and challenging, winning a game or 2 each year at each level and being thereabouts. Don't know enough about our underage set up but things were going well until around 2011 when the wheels came up. Something isn't right. Not expecting us to be winning titles very often, but to show no signs of progress over 10 years suggests something is not working. I see we were in the media last week with a new strategy - the second or 3rd one in the past 10-15 years. I don't want to see any more strategy documents, just implementation.
Underage is a long standing concern. The fact we are where we are in spite of it is a credit to McGeeney and is lost upon a lot of people in Armagh itself & beyond. I was also reading a post on Facebook this morning about how McGeeney is wasting a thriving club scene. Don't know what club scene he's watching tbh
Nothing coming through in Armagh's schools either. No solid foundations coming in the club scene either.
South Derry really getting their act together this past 5 years at county level.
This is via the heavy lifting being done by the clubs in the area. Huge work going on, filtering into the schools and then coming into the underage county set-up.
A pathway to success with everyone pulling the one way.
Armagh should aim for a semi next year.
Quote from: 5times5times on July 03, 2023, 10:50:35 AM
Question is, if Geezer goes, who's out there and free?
You could well have Armagh, Donegal & Tyrone looking managers for 2024 season.. Armagh's current crop is the best it will be in years, they have zero talent coming through, compared to other ulster counties.
We don't have good underage teams but surely there is some talent coming through. Oisin Conaty being one example. Lad is only 20
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
A fair post.
I sometimes wonder if we as Armagh fans are a bit delusional in what we expect from the team. We have 14 ulster titles. Half of them were won between 1999-2008. 3 between 1977 - 1982. We have never really been what you would call a successful team apart from the two periods above. I don't know why some of our fans expect us to be winning ulster and reaching the latter stages of the AI on a regular basis. Maybe a lot started watching during our most recent successful period
Quote from: Armamike on July 03, 2023, 01:10:25 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 03, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
Can't believe I'm agreeing with you but that is precisely it.
We've neglected underage badly since 2009 and haven't even been competitive at either grade never mind competing to win Ulster titles. Thats where we need to start and we need to look at how those jobs are handed out because the development process hasn't been up to the level required. We aren't in a great place moving forward and could easily find ourselves languishing in division 3 in a few years with the lack of talent coming through and the current standard of the club game in the county.
Monaghan and Mayo have proven that you can remain competitive despite a raft of older players retiring or being phased out but the difference is that those counties have good underage systems and development pathways in place. I don't know whether Armagh will be as successful in being competitive at the top table over the next few years.
Trailer - I'm going to have to change my opinion of you. Good post. Underage is the issue. Like him or loathe McGeeney's been working with threadbare resources. As yellow card says, we haven't been competitive at underage for years. We have new guys coming onto the panel every year who've not won a championship game at underage. it's not just about winning Ulsters or All -Irelands, it's being competitive and challenging, winning a game or 2 each year at each level and being thereabouts. Don't know enough about our underage set up but things were going well until around 2011 when the wheels came up. Something isn't right. Not expecting us to be winning titles very often, but to show no signs of progress over 10 years suggests something is not working. I see we were in the media last week with a new strategy - the second or 3rd one in the past 10-15 years. I don't want to see any more strategy documents, just implementation.
A good chunk of our team (Rian, Turbo, Jason Duffy, Ross McQ, Conor O'Neill) were on the last u20 team that made an Ulster final in2018. They lost it after being involved in a brawl with Tyrone in the semi. TK and Justy Kierans were on an u20 team that lost to Tyrone (the then AI champions) due to a goalkeeping error in 2020 just before Covid struck. Geezer has picked off whatever talent has been coming through on any of our half decent teams coming up through. Credit must be given to him for this and I would be worried that once the lads that were on the 09 minor team hang up the boots we are in big danger of dropping down the ranks significantly. But that makes the errors in tactics on days like Saturday all the more galling. We have (maybe) two more years of competing at provincial and Div 1 levels and we have to take advantage of the talent we have now.
There's a strong argument for a change in management before this happens. These older lads would have been loyal to Geezer but I'm wondering if underneath it all if they would prefer a change of voice for the last couple of years of their Armagh careers. They're bound to know that the more conservative approach of 2023 does not suit this team.
Armagh club football is crap, McGeeney and co have done a great job
Armagh need to put more effort as well into the Ulster Junior and Intermediate club championships as even winning those would be a positive for the county. They are the only Ulster County not to have won at Intermediate and have only 1 Junior title.
Start from the bottom up.
McGeeney and Co are clouded with a losers tag at this stage. Between losing big games, relegation and style of play, it's hard to shake that off after 8 or 9 years. If donaghy is a forwards coach I don't know what he is doing with them.
As an example - Keane in Kerry was close, had the players at underage but one failure and he was gone. They went after a proven winner with a strong backroom team. They believed they had the players but seen that a year with risk is just a year wasted, they wanted a change of direction.
Armagh are labouring. Maybe McGeeney is overachieving but I don't know what he has achieved in his county Mgt career to date.
Regards the underage, it's a help to have strong structures in place but having 1 starting county senior player come through each year is a good year, other years you might get two panel members, a good team you'll get a starter and panel members. It's hard work but you have to give them game time. McConville in Armagh was very strong at club level but doesn't seem to fit current mgts plans. Many others like him?
Are too many resources been put into the senior set up and underage neglected? A county centre of excellence is a must these days. I remember Laverty talking about the disappointment he faced taking Down underage teams to Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan etc and seeing what they had and him unable to tell the players where they'd be training the following week. It's been massive for Louth to have it but our schools are still so far behind and players spread around them. I don't think Leinster schools are as focused as the Ulster schools and it shows. A work colleague raves about the Monaghan schools and that 3 compete now at the top level and they make finals and semi finals regularly.
This Armagh team is over achieving. Fans need to rethink their expectations. Ask Down what changing managers has done for them.
It all starts with the youth. A conveyor belt of talent, consistently year after year after year.
Tyrone are ordinary at the minute. Very ordinary as Kerry proved but they still bate Armagh twice this year. Armagh got close to Galway last year but they didn't deserve that penalty shoot out. They scored a few lucky goals. They bate no one of significance until Galway this year. Div 3 sides. They got relegated and rightly so. A small bit of perspective is needed here. What's the expectation? Win an All Ireland? Win Ulster? Or is it to compete?
Ulster is probably the weakest province at the moment. It is competitive but the 2 are not the same. Derry are also quite limited.
Both Ulster semi final teams will probably get hammered in due course.
There is no magic formula for leaving mediocrity behind. And a lot of success is time dependent . Armagh won that all Ireland when Dublin were weak and Kerry were rebuilding.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 03, 2023, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
A fair post.
I sometimes wonder if we as Armagh fans are a bit delusional in what we expect from the team. We have 14 ulster titles. Half of them were won between 1999-2008. 3 between 1977 - 1982. We have never really been what you would call a successful team apart from the two periods above. I don't know why some of our fans expect us to be winning ulster and reaching the latter stages of the AI on a regular basis. Maybe a lot started watching during our most recent successful period
Take your point. We should be striving to be doing better at underage though. When we weren't winning Ulster minors in the 80s I remember us contesting a few finals. We can barely get out of the first round most years at minor and U20.
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 03:54:49 PM
Ulster is probably the weakest province at the moment. It is competitive but the 2 are not the same. Derry are also quite limited.
Both Ulster semi final teams will probably get hammered in due course.
There is no magic formula for leaving mediocrity behind. And a lot of success is time dependent . Armagh won that all Ireland when Dublin were weak and Kerry were rebuilding.
Look I hate Armagh more than anyone but they were the best team in Ireland bar Tyrone that year and deserved it. They moved the dial in terms of preparation and how teams approached games. Every All Ireland can't be predicated with Dublin were weak and Kerry rebuilding.
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 03:54:49 PM
Ulster is probably the weakest province at the moment. It is competitive but the 2 are not the same. Derry are also quite limited.
Both Ulster semi final teams will probably get hammered in due course.
There is no magic formula for leaving mediocrity behind. And a lot of success is time dependent . Armagh won that all Ireland when Dublin were weak and Kerry were rebuilding.
Have you ever heard of a province called Leinster?
Or munster?
Quote from: Nanderson on July 03, 2023, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 03:54:49 PM
Ulster is probably the weakest province at the moment. It is competitive but the 2 are not the same. Derry are also quite limited.
Both Ulster semi final teams will probably get hammered in due course.
There is no magic formula for leaving mediocrity behind. And a lot of success is time dependent . Armagh won that all Ireland when Dublin were weak and Kerry were rebuilding.
Have you ever heard of a province called Leinster?
Dublin are better than any team in Ulster. So are Kerry.
The strongest team in Leinster is better than the strongest team in Ulster. Likewise with Munster. It doesn't make Ulster the weakest province.
McGeeney has become a liability with the way he acts towards officials in the game. He has done himself no favours and definitely not Armagh. He has had the best part of a decade and has nothing worth noting in this time as manager. He will always be a legend as a footballer, but as a manager this is as far as he goes. I still believe defensively we are nowhere near there, we have too many decent forwards and asking them to defend is not on, when they should be attacking. He has brought Armagh on in the last few seasons and I am cautious about him leaving and ending up with a Kildare type of scenario. The time has or will soon pass for players such as Grugan, Campbell, Murnin and Forker unfortunately. Some may only have one season left in them and I think a new voice has to come in, play under a new management style and develop a new style of play.
I think there should be a role for McGeeney in developing players at an early stage. This is where he will have an impact.
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on July 03, 2023, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 03:54:49 PM
Ulster is probably the weakest province at the moment. It is competitive but the 2 are not the same. Derry are also quite limited.
Both Ulster semi final teams will probably get hammered in due course.
There is no magic formula for leaving mediocrity behind. And a lot of success is time dependent . Armagh won that all Ireland when Dublin were weak and Kerry were rebuilding.
Have you ever heard of a province called Leinster?
Dublin are better than any team in Ulster. So are Kerry.
#
tbf there are 2 teams in front of eevryone else
then there are about 8 teams who are much the same
Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.
I dont like to say it but I think it might be time for a change. I think things need freshened up at the very least, with new voices and ideas. It all seemed to go a bit stale this year when I expected us to push on. If Geezer does get another year then he should clear the decks on his support staff.
A few posts saying that we have nothing coming through. I'd say that's slightly wide of the mark. We do have some talented individuals coming through but yes i do take the point that we havent been able to put together a successful underage team in a while.
The lack of a centre of excellence remains a mystery.
Quote from: Itchy on July 03, 2023, 04:20:44 PM
Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.
I'd strongly disagree there. That's fear rather than making the right call for the right reasons.
There is lots of people out there. You just have to be ambitious - Louth going after Harte; Antrim with McGinley and then Andy McEntee. Down getting Laverty.
Was Gallagher an obvious one to Derry? Manages will travel, Mark Doran going to Clare, Tally to Kerry.
Could they sell a project to Malachy O'Rourke? Oisin McConville? McEntees? Mickey Graham? Enda McGinley? Jim McGuinness? Pat Gilroy?
I think some overthink it. Top managers love the challenge and the chance to make a breakthrough.
mickey graham to replace mc geeney! sweet jesus.
Quote from: the goal was on on July 03, 2023, 05:16:17 PM
mickey graham to replace mc geeney! sweet jesus.
Well he has an Ulster ;D
Actually, Grahams managerial record is way ahead of McGeeney. Forgot his Leinster club. Had the relegations with Cavan but has taken them back into Div2 against Armagh next year. All the while he has lost some of his best players along the way. He wins things. Something Armagh lack.
Quote from: Louther on July 03, 2023, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 03, 2023, 04:20:44 PM
Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.
I'd strongly disagree there. That's fear rather than making the right call for the right reasons.
There is lots of people out there. You just have to be ambitious - Louth going after Harte; Antrim with McGinley and then Andy McEntee. Down getting Laverty.
Was Gallagher an obvious one to Derry? Manages will travel, Mark Doran going to Clare, Tally to Kerry.
Could they sell a project to Malachy O'Rourke? Oisin McConville? McEntees? Mickey Graham? Enda McGinley? Jim McGuinness? Pat Gilroy?
I think some overthink it. Top managers love the challenge and the chance to make a breakthrough.
Mad the way some people think. What have Andy McEntee, McGinley, Laverty and a couple more on that list done that would put them ahead of McGeeney?
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 04:03:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 03:54:49 PM
Ulster is probably the weakest province at the moment. It is competitive but the 2 are not the same. Derry are also quite limited.
Both Ulster semi final teams will probably get hammered in due course.
There is no magic formula for leaving mediocrity behind. And a lot of success is time dependent . Armagh won that all Ireland when Dublin were weak and Kerry were rebuilding.
Look I hate Armagh more than anyone but they were the best team in Ireland bar Tyrone that year and deserved it. They moved the dial in terms of preparation and how teams approached games. Every All Ireland can't be predicated with Dublin were weak and Kerry rebuilding.
Are you referring to 2002? :o
I'd agree with the rest of that though
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 03, 2023, 05:35:55 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 03, 2023, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 03, 2023, 04:20:44 PM
Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.
I'd strongly disagree there. That's fear rather than making the right call for the right reasons.
There is lots of people out there. You just have to be ambitious - Louth going after Harte; Antrim with McGinley and then Andy McEntee. Down getting Laverty.
Was Gallagher an obvious one to Derry? Manages will travel, Mark Doran going to Clare, Tally to Kerry.
Could they sell a project to Malachy O'Rourke? Oisin McConville? McEntees? Mickey Graham? Enda McGinley? Jim McGuinness? Pat Gilroy?
I think some overthink it. Top managers love the challenge and the chance to make a breakthrough.
Mad the way some people think. What have Andy McEntee, McGinley, Laverty and a couple more on that list done that would put them ahead of McGeeney?
It's mental gymnastics. Getting a big name outside manager would not solve all ills like some think. They'll come in for a year or two but will not be there for the long haul. Look at how Monaghan toyed with getting Jason Sherlock for a while before stumbling upon Corey almost by default when he had no real reputation at management level. I'd still rather have an Armagh man as manager rather than a big outside name in it for a quick buck.
lead a protest to getting penalty shootout removed from deciding a contest.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 03, 2023, 05:56:09 PM
lead a protest to getting penalty shootout removed from deciding a contest.
Well we will shortly have one of our own in charge so who knows!
Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.
I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.
But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.
Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.
Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.
The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.
There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.
Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 03, 2023, 05:35:55 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 03, 2023, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 03, 2023, 04:20:44 PM
Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.
I'd strongly disagree there. That's fear rather than making the right call for the right reasons.
There is lots of people out there. You just have to be ambitious - Louth going after Harte; Antrim with McGinley and then Andy McEntee. Down getting Laverty.
Was Gallagher an obvious one to Derry? Manages will travel, Mark Doran going to Clare, Tally to Kerry.
Could they sell a project to Malachy O'Rourke? Oisin McConville? McEntees? Mickey Graham? Enda McGinley? Jim McGuinness? Pat Gilroy?
I think some overthink it. Top managers love the challenge and the chance to make a breakthrough.
Mad the way some people think. What have Andy McEntee, McGinley, Laverty and a couple more on that list done that would put them ahead of McGeeney?
Completely missing the point. The list you referred to was about counties going for Managers that you wouldn't have been in their normal radar, outside the box. McGinley on other list of bigger names, maybe not as obvious, but had potential in Antrim with a lesser panel.
Listen, be happy with Armagh. Yous are talking yourselves into him been to the solution and the players/development/club scene been the problem. That's fine, you can't change that but you can change a manger. The reality is I don't think he's ever won anything as a manager. Lot of those names mentioned have, at various levels and achieved plenty.
The biggest fault I can see is that McGeeney didn't win the exact same type of match twice this year - Derry and Monaghan. Both very similar and there to be won, yet he approached the Monaghan game the exact same. Hasn't learned. The Galway game last year that he seems to dine on round here, he should have lost well but Galway buckled. You can't keep sending teams out to win tight games by 1 or 2 points. He does.
Do Armagh folk feel that Kieran Donaghy's input has added anything? Or not?
Quote from: yellowcard on July 03, 2023, 10:53:55 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2023, 10:37:54 AM
At the risk of total pollution by our friendly neighbours what would Armagh supporters like to see happen next year? New management? Geezer stays but with a change in direction?
Its the latter for me. I've been assuming for a while Ciaran McKeever's fingerprints have been all over our style of play (last 2 seasons particularly) as it developed into the current eye cancer. I believe McGeeney has an agreement to stay until the end of next season anyway, I hope he stays along with the more senior players for at least another season. There has to be a change in style or at the very least mindset, which is very easy to say but much harder to implement. We're obviously not a million miles away as it stands.
At the minute it feels as though time has almost ran out for the current side. Players like Grugan, Forker, Soupy, Murnin and Morgan are in their twilight years but without them the drop off could be huge and if Geezer went you could see a mass exodus of players. So I'd give him one more season.
The feeling is a lot different than after last season though when it seemed like we had a change of approach for the better after the Ballybofey defeat. The football was thrills and spills stuff that got you off the edge of your seat. The contrast with this season could not be any starker. I don't know whether that is down tp McKeever putting his stamp on things defensively or Donaghy not being able to get his attacking ideas across but ultimately the buck still stops with the manager. So I'd be a bit torn if we were being forced to continue watching more of the same stuff next season. And that is the biggest issue for me, not the actual defeats themselves. I still think we need to be careful what we wish for and for that reason I'd keep him in charge for another season with the caveat that there needs to be a change in approach.
Agreed, have seen it mentioned that we could go like Kildare after Geezer left them, but something needs to change. I would have been less pissed off if we'd lost similarly to 2021 on a mad scoreline again, rather than being bored to tears watching that shite the other day.
The defensive style of play isn't worth it, Monaghan actually missed a pile of scorable chances the other day. Would rather we started playing to our strengths, getting the likes of Rian, Soupy and Turbo on the ball high up the pitch.
If we can get Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and TK fit for next year they'll be a serious help.
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 12:35:56 PM
Seriously, no messing... Armagh need to start at the bottom. Underage. They don't win enough Ulster Minor or U-20 (Whatever the grade is now) at the moment. Never mind All Irelands. Have they won 3 underage All Irelands in their history? It's not a hard and fast rule but its a good indicator. Todays Kerry side won 5 minor titles in a row. That's the calibre all teams are competing against. Develop those players.
They need a Centre of Excellence. Have they started the one that was passed in planning?
Winning on the pitch starts off it. Armagh are behind all the top counties around the country.
Yeah nail on the head for once there! Even our club and schools teams, bar Cross barely a championship winner ever won a game in Ulster and it's been a while since Cross did anything at Ulster level. Same with school teams, Tyrone and Derry are consistently winning titles, last schools team we had do anything was St Ronan's Hogan winning team, I think TK was on that team but not sure if we got anyone else from it. Before that it was a brilliant St Pauls team who lost a couple of finals and we did get a fair few from that.
There is plenty of young talent though within the county, for whatever reason they just don't seem to click as a team when it comes to county underage teams.
Quote from: restorepride on July 03, 2023, 11:14:27 PM
Do Armagh folk feel that Kieran Donaghy's input has added anything? Or not?
For me, its been Donaghy who has been the brains behind any of the attacking improvement there has been since he arrived.
This year however, with all the over-defensive style, mgmt obviously were spotting weaknesses whether it be due to squad depth, injuries I don't know...but Donaghy is the last person I would be faulting or want to see go. Put it like this, he leaves and then we are no longer even considering ourselves a top 8 county for the foreseeable.
Quote from: Louther on July 03, 2023, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on July 03, 2023, 05:16:17 PM
mickey graham to replace mc geeney! sweet jesus.
Well he has an Ulster ;D
Actually, Grahams managerial record is way ahead of McGeeney. Forgot his Leinster club. Had the relegations with Cavan but has taken them back into Div2 against Armagh next year. All the while he has lost some of his best players along the way. He wins things. Something Armagh lack.
I am off the opinion that the only way for a county to truly progress is with an inside man as the temptation is too strong for an outside man to do the wrong thing for short term gain. There are probably the odd exception to the rule (you might argue Mickey Harte is but lets see what shape Louth are in when he leaves). So when you strip out the outside men, do you have better internal candidates than what is there already.
I do think bringing in outside help in your backroom team is a good way to get new ideas and expertise though, but with a inside man with the final say.
As an outsider looking in I thought that 2 or 3 years ago is when they should have changed away from McGeeney. It's almost too late now ahead of any rebuild.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 03, 2023, 05:35:55 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 03, 2023, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 03, 2023, 04:20:44 PM
Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.
I'd strongly disagree there. That's fear rather than making the right call for the right reasons.
There is lots of people out there. You just have to be ambitious - Louth going after Harte; Antrim with McGinley and then Andy McEntee. Down getting Laverty.
Was Gallagher an obvious one to Derry? Manages will travel, Mark Doran going to Clare, Tally to Kerry.
Could they sell a project to Malachy O'Rourke? Oisin McConville? McEntees? Mickey Graham? Enda McGinley? Jim McGuinness? Pat Gilroy?
I think some overthink it. Top managers love the challenge and the chance to make a breakthrough.
Mad the way some people think. What have Andy McEntee, McGinley, Laverty and a couple more on that list done that would put them ahead of McGeeney?
The same Enda McGinley that dropped Ruairi McCann off the panel and has scored nearly a goal every game this year. Laverty didn't get Down out of Divison 2 and first proper test Down got against Armagh were hammered. Laverty will probably do well in the longrun but has alot to prove at moment.
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on July 03, 2023, 09:55:32 PM
Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.
I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.
But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.
Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.
Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.
The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.
There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.
Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.
Aidan Nugent to come back too
A huge attacking loss this year
Quote from: Gold on July 04, 2023, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on July 03, 2023, 09:55:32 PM
Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.
I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.
But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.
Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.
Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.
The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.
There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.
Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.
Aidan Nugent to come back too
A huge attacking loss this year
He has been involved and the less said about his form the better. Was sent back to play with his club a few weeks ago.
I am on the fence with what happens next.
McGeeney has got basically every player who should be on the panel there and buying into the thing. Theres probably only a year or 2 left in the 09 minor team on the panel grugan murnin(who had a brilliant year)morgan and soupy and a change of management may make them consider their inter county future. Armagh are always competitive in any game they play.
You often hear the phrase win or learn, my concern would be that we learnt nothing from the Derry game as the game on Saturday ended up in the same scenario with Armagh playing passively when they had the extra man in extra time. Armagh are a front foot team and played into Monaghan's hands the way they approached the game on Saturday. I thought Croke Park would suit Armagh and saw in league game a few years ago against Dublin when moved the ball quickly by foot they were a joy to watch. The under usage of Cian McConville who has been probably best club forward in Armagh over the past few seasons is also a strange one.
If a better option became available then a change may be good but sometimes you need to be careful for what you wish for.
Quote from: statto on July 04, 2023, 08:56:26 AM
Quote from: Gold on July 04, 2023, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on July 03, 2023, 09:55:32 PM
Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.
I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.
But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.
Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.
Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.
The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.
There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.
Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.
Aidan Nugent to come back too
A huge attacking loss this year
He has been involved and the less said about his form the better. Was sent back to play with his club a few weeks ago.
Get him back to the form he was in last year and he's some addition.
Quote from: Itchy on July 04, 2023, 08:19:50 AM
Quote from: Louther on July 03, 2023, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on July 03, 2023, 05:16:17 PM
mickey graham to replace mc geeney! sweet jesus.
Well he has an Ulster ;D
Actually, Grahams managerial record is way ahead of McGeeney. Forgot his Leinster club. Had the relegations with Cavan but has taken them back into Div2 against Armagh next year. All the while he has lost some of his best players along the way. He wins things. Something Armagh lack.
I am off the opinion that the only way for a county to truly progress is with an inside man as the temptation is too strong for an outside man to do the wrong thing for short term gain. There are probably the odd exception to the rule (you might argue Mickey Harte is but lets see what shape Louth are in when he leaves). So when you strip out the outside men, do you have better internal candidates than what is there already.
I do think bringing in outside help in your backroom team is a good way to get new ideas and expertise though, but with a inside man with the final say.
It's about the right person, inside or outside. Plenty of bad examples of both.
Somethings the outside man will make the right decisions to make that breakthrough. Malachy O'Rourke in Monaghan, Gallagher in Derry, McStay in Roscommon, Micko and Paidi back in the day. They make not have the long term in mind but they don't have the baggage of the past. Some counties don't need that breakthrough and have their own men to shake things up.
Backroom is key nowadays and that's the big thing to get right. Again, there is very diligent good people in every county that don't have to be high profile from an outside county. We have a lot of recently retired county players who are latching onto high profile roles without cutting their teeth in club or underage county and we don't really know what they taking to the job.
The important thing is to kick on from here . Armagh are in a better place than Down, for example.
Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?
Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?
Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg
Quote from: 5times5times on July 04, 2023, 03:14:32 PM
Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?
Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?
Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg
Blaine Hughes while a very capable goalkeeper at club level, I think lacks the height/presence to be top level intercounty goalkeeper and stepped away after the Rafferty experiment. The no2 goalkeeper currently Shea Magill would not inspire me with confidence. I don't see why not at this stage as there is no glaring alternative.
Niall Morgan plays outfield for Edendork as far as I am aware plays similar role for Tyrone but this never gets mentioned. I presume this is because Rafferty actually played outfield at intercounty level. Shane Ryan think did the same.
Why can't Armagh be like Ros and practice the endgame scenario where Armagh are level and facing down the barrel of penalties ?
This has happened 3 times. Why is it never Armagh scoring the winning point in regular time ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Why can't Armagh be like Ros and practice the endgame scenario where Armagh are level and facing down the barrel of penalties ?
This has happened 3 times. Why is it never Armagh scoring the winning point in regular time ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s
Why did England never go for the winner after so many penalty losses. That always amazed me even before Armagh.
Quote from: 5times5times on July 04, 2023, 03:14:32 PM
Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?
Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?
Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg
On the real goalkeeper question, I believe it would. I don't think we will win any penalty shoot out with Rafferty in goals. That's not meant as disrespectful to him I just believe someone who is an a tualy goalie is a better option in those circumstances
Quote from: statto on July 04, 2023, 04:26:28 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 04, 2023, 03:14:32 PM
Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?
Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?
Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg
Blaine Hughes while a very capable goalkeeper at club level, I think lacks the height/presence to be top level intercounty goalkeeper and stepped away after the Rafferty experiment. The no2 goalkeeper currently Shea Magill would not inspire me with confidence. I don't see why not at this stage as there is no glaring alternative.
Niall Morgan plays outfield for Edendork as far as I am aware plays similar role for Tyrone but this never gets mentioned. I presume this is because Rafferty actually played outfield at intercounty level. Shane Ryan think did the same.
Rafferty is too ponderous on the ball. And opposing players have targeted him with late hits whereas they wouldn't Armagh defenders. Then he has to get a defender to cover the goal if he's caught out
The time Morgan came out of goals, and launched a massive ball upfield in the 21 final , which resulted in mccurry missing that soccer style chance. That's what a fly goalie can do . Thats an example of how quick and deadly a goalie coming out can be. If Rafferty is to stay in goals , because he has a great long kick on him , that's the sort of thing he should be doing (what Morgan did that time). Come to think of it , Morgan should be delivering that kind of ball more often too!
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 04, 2023, 09:21:07 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 04, 2023, 03:14:32 PM
Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?
Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?
Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg
On the real goalkeeper question, I believe it would. I don't think we will win any penalty shoot out with Rafferty in goals. That's not meant as disrespectful to him I just believe someone who is an a tualy goalie is a better option in those circumstances
The value he adds as an additional outfield playmaker outweighs his value as a shot stopper in a penalty shoot-out.
My not very hot take on this.
Armagh have become a more negative team since fielding an "extra outfield playmaker". In terms of line breaks and chances created, they've dropped off the cliff.
So if this is meant to be a plus point, just look at the data.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 10:03:46 AM
The important thing is to kick on from here . Armagh are in a better place than Down, for example.
Well they're in d2, but other than that I'm not sure why you make that assertion and if down win the TC they'll be assured of all Ireland football next season, unlike Armagh.
Quote from: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 12:39:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 10:03:46 AM
The important thing is to kick on from here . Armagh are in a better place than Down, for example.
Well they're in d2, but other than that I'm not sure why you make that assertion and if down win the TC they'll be assured of all Ireland football next season, unlike Armagh.
Whatever about getting over the line against Derry and Monaghan, they had no problem beating Down.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2023, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 12:39:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 10:03:46 AM
The important thing is to kick on from here . Armagh are in a better place than Down, for example.
Well they're in d2, but other than that I'm not sure why you make that assertion and if down win the TC they'll be assured of all Ireland football next season, unlike Armagh.
Whatever about getting over the line against Derry and Monaghan, they had no problem beating Down.
Judging by the last time we played Down I wouldn't be losing any sleep about those boys for a while, but give Lavery a few years to get those u20's through and they'll be a side worth worrying about imo.
On the Rafferty thing, would definitely stick with it but at this stage we should realise he isn't the man for a penalty shootout. How hard would it be to make a sub in the last minute when we know the game is going to penalties?
So frustrating to be penalty shoot outs away from back to back semi finals (quite possibly a final last year) and an Ulster title.
3 penalty defeats, surely a proper keeper would be a better option? Just make the substitution at the end
Quote from: An Watcher on July 05, 2023, 06:45:51 AM
3 penalty defeats, surely a proper keeper would be a better option? Just make the substitution at the end
Ala Chelsea!
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
Monaghan just beat Armagh in an AI quarter final so i'd say they couldn't be a bit below them.
Quote from: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 12:39:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 10:03:46 AM
The important thing is to kick on from here . Armagh are in a better place than Down, for example.
Well they're in d2, but other than that I'm not sure why you make that assertion and if down win the TC they'll be assured of all Ireland football next season, unlike Armagh.
If.
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
This is the bonkers thinking I'm here for ;D You've just been beat by one of the teams that "maybe" a bit below you. If not further than a bit below you.
The reality is you've won sweet Fanny Adams and if they below you, beat them. In sport you earn reputation by beating teams and winning. Armagh got relelgated this year. In their group they struggled over Westmeath at home, got beat well by Tyrone and then popped Galway who haven't performed this year. They had an easy path to an Ulster and then in two clutch games they choked when they seen the winning line. Armagh are exactly where they are. They aren't as good as the others or they'd still be playing.
Quote from: Louther on July 05, 2023, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
This is the bonkers thinking I'm here for ;D You've just been beat by one of the teams that "maybe" a bit below you. If not further than a bit below you.
The reality is you've won sweet Fanny Adams and if they below you, beat them. In sport you earn reputation by beating teams and winning. Armagh got relelgated this year. In their group they struggled over Westmeath at home, got beat well by Tyrone and then popped Galway who haven't performed this year. They had an easy path to an Ulster and then in two clutch games they choked when they seen the winning line. Armagh are exactly where they are. They aren't as good as the others or they'd still be playing.
Maybe so but I still think there is a lottery element to penalty shoot outs. It's a bit like when Mayo were getting to and losing All Ireland Finals. It's frustrating for Mayo fans but many other counties would like to be getting as far.
Armagh are getting to All Ireland QF's and competing at that level. Whatever is decided on for next season it isn't a bad base to start from and many other counties would be delighted to be competing at those levels. Armagh are certainly not being over run or beat out the gate in the latter stages of championship football.
Quote from: Gael80 on July 05, 2023, 02:17:26 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 05, 2023, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
This is the bonkers thinking I'm here for ;D You've just been beat by one of the teams that "maybe" a bit below you. If not further than a bit below you.
The reality is you've won sweet Fanny Adams and if they below you, beat them. In sport you earn reputation by beating teams and winning. Armagh got relelgated this year. In their group they struggled over Westmeath at home, got beat well by Tyrone and then popped Galway who haven't performed this year. They had an easy path to an Ulster and then in two clutch games they choked when they seen the winning line. Armagh are exactly where they are. They aren't as good as the others or they'd still be playing.
Maybe so but I still think there is a lottery element to penalty shoot outs. It's a bit like when Mayo were getting to and losing All Ireland Finals. It's frustrating for Mayo fans but many other counties would like to be getting as far.
Armagh are getting to All Ireland QF's and competing at that level. Whatever is decided on for next season it isn't a bad base to start from and many other counties would be delighted to be competing at those levels.
Of course, penalties are a lottery but why do Armagh keep finding themselves at the mercy of a lottery instead of closing out the game in 70 minutes never mind 90? That's the real issue. Not that you've had bad luck in penalties.
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Is Stevie McDonnell still looking after the U21's? Who manages the minors?
Of that list, I would only look forward to Tony McEntee.
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Mc geeney has another year so is going no where.
Quote from: Itchy on July 05, 2023, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
Monaghan just beat Armagh in an AI quarter final so i'd say they couldn't be a bit below them.
Don't get me wrong I was happy Monaghan won but it was a penalty shoot out where they won 9-8. And Armagh also lost the Ulster final on penalties. Even Vinny Corey said they didn't "win" the match. Armagh can do better, I think Monaghan are getting the absolute max out of what they have.
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
You'd be better stick with McGeeney and give him one more year and shot at it.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on July 05, 2023, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: Gael80 on July 05, 2023, 02:17:26 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 05, 2023, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
They need to release the handbrake and be more direct. Anyone remember when they beat Dublin in Croke Park in the league last year, playing more direct attacking style. Was outstanding performance.
I know it was early league match but how many teams can do that to Dublin in Croker, in that style. League or not. No doubt they are stronger defensively now but as others have said they need to merge a bit more between that and this year.
I think they're probably as good as most of the others outside Dublin and Kerry. Tyrone, Derry, Galway, Mayo, maybe Monaghan and Roscommon a a bit below.
This is the bonkers thinking I'm here for ;D You've just been beat by one of the teams that "maybe" a bit below you. If not further than a bit below you.
The reality is you've won sweet Fanny Adams and if they below you, beat them. In sport you earn reputation by beating teams and winning. Armagh got relelgated this year. In their group they struggled over Westmeath at home, got beat well by Tyrone and then popped Galway who haven't performed this year. They had an easy path to an Ulster and then in two clutch games they choked when they seen the winning line. Armagh are exactly where they are. They aren't as good as the others or they'd still be playing.
Maybe so but I still think there is a lottery element to penalty shoot outs. It's a bit like when Mayo were getting to and losing All Ireland Finals. It's frustrating for Mayo fans but many other counties would like to be getting as far.
Armagh are getting to All Ireland QF's and competing at that level. Whatever is decided on for next season it isn't a bad base to start from and many other counties would be delighted to be competing at those levels.
Of course, penalties are a lottery but why do Armagh keep finding themselves at the mercy of a lottery instead of closing out the game in 70 minutes never mind 90? That's the real issue. Not that you've had bad luck in penalties.
Exactly. They've all been tight games but we've had our chances in each of them to close them out, being 1-2 points ahead going into the final couple of minutes. Should be well able to keep ball and run down the clock at that point.
Get rid of Geezer.
/thread
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Looking back to St Ronans winning the Hogan in 2018, the last real success story of underage football in armagh, only 1 player made it through to date (Tiarnan Kelly) into the Armagh setup. 5 of the starting team are from Antrim 2 of which are involved with antrim (luke mulholland, Adam Loughran). Strange that they never got more through from watching club football none of them have really kicked on to be county level players though they are still relatively young.
The westport team they beat in final had rory brickenden, jack carney, mark moran and eoin mclaughlin who have all played for Mayo.
I think that it could cause more damage than create good if Armagh sack Mc Geeney. I think he deserves the opportunity to see out his last season.,,
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Looking back to St Ronans winning the Hogan in 2018, the last real success story of underage football in armagh, only 1 player made it through to date (Tiarnan Kelly) into the Armagh setup. 5 of the starting team are from Antrim 2 of which are involved with antrim (luke mulholland, Adam Loughran). Strange that they never got more through from watching club football none of them have really kicked on to be county level players though they are still relatively young.
The westport team they beat in final had rory brickenden, jack carney, mark moran and eoin mclaughlin who have all played for Mayo.
I think we got more from the previous st ronans team. Turbo. McCambridge. Ryan Owen.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 06, 2023, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Looking back to St Ronans winning the Hogan in 2018, the last real success story of underage football in armagh, only 1 player made it through to date (Tiarnan Kelly) into the Armagh setup. 5 of the starting team are from Antrim 2 of which are involved with antrim (luke mulholland, Adam Loughran). Strange that they never got more through from watching club football none of them have really kicked on to be county level players though they are still relatively young.
The westport team they beat in final had rory brickenden, jack carney, mark moran and eoin mclaughlin who have all played for Mayo.
I think we got more from the previous st ronans team. Turbo. McCambridge. Ryan Owen.
Owens has had awful run with injuries and size would be against him at county level. He would be older than other 2 lads by a year I think. Turbitt and McCambridge team were beat the year previous by a Rian O'Neill inspired St Colmans in Athletic Grounds in Macrory semi after winning the mccormick cup.
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 06, 2023, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Looking back to St Ronans winning the Hogan in 2018, the last real success story of underage football in armagh, only 1 player made it through to date (Tiarnan Kelly) into the Armagh setup. 5 of the starting team are from Antrim 2 of which are involved with antrim (luke mulholland, Adam Loughran). Strange that they never got more through from watching club football none of them have really kicked on to be county level players though they are still relatively young.
The westport team they beat in final had rory brickenden, jack carney, mark moran and eoin mclaughlin who have all played for Mayo.
I think we got more from the previous st ronans team. Turbo. McCambridge. Ryan Owen.
Owens has had awful run with injuries and size would be against him at county level. He would be older than other 2 lads by a year I think. Turbitt and McCambridge team were beat the year previous by a Rian O'Neill inspired St Colmans in Athletic Grounds in Macrory semi after winning the mccormick cup.
How many have we had through from St Pats recently?
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 06, 2023, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 06, 2023, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Looking back to St Ronans winning the Hogan in 2018, the last real success story of underage football in armagh, only 1 player made it through to date (Tiarnan Kelly) into the Armagh setup. 5 of the starting team are from Antrim 2 of which are involved with antrim (luke mulholland, Adam Loughran). Strange that they never got more through from watching club football none of them have really kicked on to be county level players though they are still relatively young.
The westport team they beat in final had rory brickenden, jack carney, mark moran and eoin mclaughlin who have all played for Mayo.
I think we got more from the previous st ronans team. Turbo. McCambridge. Ryan Owen.
Owens has had awful run with injuries and size would be against him at county level. He would be older than other 2 lads by a year I think. Turbitt and McCambridge team were beat the year previous by a Rian O'Neill inspired St Colmans in Athletic Grounds in Macrory semi after winning the mccormick cup.
How many have we had through from St Pats recently?
The sideline eye said used 42 players this year across mckenna cup, league and championship I make it the following ex st pats: Murnin, Duffy, McElroy, Kieran, McPartlan with Murnin being nearly 15 years ago. No surprise they haven't made a macrory final since 2000.
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 06, 2023, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 06, 2023, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: statto on July 06, 2023, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Looking back to St Ronans winning the Hogan in 2018, the last real success story of underage football in armagh, only 1 player made it through to date (Tiarnan Kelly) into the Armagh setup. 5 of the starting team are from Antrim 2 of which are involved with antrim (luke mulholland, Adam Loughran). Strange that they never got more through from watching club football none of them have really kicked on to be county level players though they are still relatively young.
The westport team they beat in final had rory brickenden, jack carney, mark moran and eoin mclaughlin who have all played for Mayo.
I think we got more from the previous st ronans team. Turbo. McCambridge. Ryan Owen.
Owens has had awful run with injuries and size would be against him at county level. He would be older than other 2 lads by a year I think. Turbitt and McCambridge team were beat the year previous by a Rian O'Neill inspired St Colmans in Athletic Grounds in Macrory semi after winning the mccormick cup.
How many have we had through from St Pats recently?
The sideline eye said used 42 players this year across mckenna cup, league and championship I make it the following ex st pats: Murnin, Duffy, McElroy, Kieran, McPartlan with Murnin being nearly 15 years ago. No surprise they haven't made a macrory final since 2000.
There's a shift in that school now though with the lurgan lads mostly staying in town for St Ronan's or going to Newry. St Pats would still have put a few Tyrone's way too.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 06, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Three of those mentioned are already in jobs and would be unavailable for next season. I wouldn't want Jim McGuinness, we want to move away from negative, defensive football and he was the initial instigator of what we call modern gaelic football. Jim McCorry was a good coach but his time has probably passed at county level now. I'd still rather give it to an Armagh man though.
I think the best option is to give Geezer another year and look at making a change in 12 months time. I believe he has another year left on his contract anyway unless he decided to walk. I'd rather have one last go at it with the current side and set up but the bigger issue is trying to sort out the underage set ups for next season and starting at the bottom, otherwise we will fall further behind when the older players move on.
Funny you should mention underage football. Dublin didn't win a minor All Ireland from 1984 until 2012. And they've only been in 3 finals since the millennium , and none since that 2012 win. So even with their numbers and resources , that is quite poor. And it hasn't really affected the senior success Too much. So underage success in terms of trophies isn't everything , success in bringing players through to senior, is.
Also , Kerry didn't win a minor from 1994 to 2014. Yet their senior team constantly compete for the big prizes
Quote from: Orior on July 05, 2023, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Is Stevie McDonnell still looking after the U21's? Who manages the minors?
Of that list, I would only look forward to Tony McEntee.
no Stevie isn't over 21s ex senior manager Peter McDonnell is along with Martin McQuillan,Brendan Hughes ex ogs manager along with Chris Rafferty ex ogs player currant st colmcilles grange manager are over the minors
Quote from: badjawbadteast on July 07, 2023, 08:07:41 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 05, 2023, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Is Stevie McDonnell still looking after the U21's? Who manages the minors?
Of that list, I would only look forward to Tony McEntee.
no Stevie isn't over 21s ex senior manager Peter McDonnell is along with Martin McQuillan,Brendan Hughes ex ogs manager along with Chris Rafferty ex ogs player currant st colmcilles grange manager are over the minors
Peter McDonnell and Martin McQuillan aren't over the u20s any more. Barry O'Hagan and Oisin McConville were over them for a year until Oisin went to Wicklow. Think Barry O'Hagan stayed on??
Quote from: mackers on July 07, 2023, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: badjawbadteast on July 07, 2023, 08:07:41 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 05, 2023, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on July 05, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
If Geezer goes, who would actually want the gig, when likely 4-5 senior players will hang boots up too?
Tony Mac
Oisin
Jim McCory
AOR
Jim McGuinness
Malachy O'Rourke
Is Stevie McDonnell still looking after the U21's? Who manages the minors?
Of that list, I would only look forward to Tony McEntee.
no Stevie isn't over 21s ex senior manager Peter McDonnell is along with Martin McQuillan,Brendan Hughes ex ogs manager along with Chris Rafferty ex ogs player currant st colmcilles grange manager are over the minors
Peter McDonnell and Martin McQuillan aren't over the u20s any more. Barry O'Hagan and Oisin McConville were over them for a year until Oisin went to Wicklow. Think Barry O'Hagan stayed on??
Yeah he had them this year. No idea of the plans for next season.
Malachy O'Rourke or McGuinness etc would have their eyes on a much bigger prize than a small limited county like Armagh with no real AI pedigree.
(I don't think McGuinness will manage again in GAA FWIW)
They'd be targeting teams with in the top 4 consistently over the last 20 years.
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on July 07, 2023, 03:57:29 PM
Malachy O'Rourke or McGuinness etc would have their eyes on a much bigger prize than a small limited county like Armagh with no real AI pedigree.
(I don't think McGuinness will manage again in GAA FWIW)
They'd be targeting teams with in the top 4 consistently over the last 20 years.
Is that right Mal/Jim?
So the Derry job for example would not interest MOR? Knows the club scene worked with some of their players and had success with them. Derry minors in 7 of last 9 ulster finals, but 1 AI so that wouldn't be a job any manager would be interested in.
Monaghan were no world beaters or in your words had no pedigree when he took over there either.
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on July 07, 2023, 03:57:29 PM
Malachy O'Rourke or McGuinness etc would have their eyes on a much bigger prize than a small limited county like Armagh with no real AI pedigree.
(I don't think McGuinness will manage again in GAA FWIW)
They'd be targeting teams with in the top 4 consistently over the last 20 years.
So Dublin Kerry Mayo tyrone. Why would MOR be targeting that type of team?
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 07, 2023, 04:19:51 PM
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on July 07, 2023, 03:57:29 PM
Malachy O'Rourke or McGuinness etc would have their eyes on a much bigger prize than a small limited county like Armagh with no real AI pedigree.
(I don't think McGuinness will manage again in GAA FWIW)
They'd be targeting teams with in the top 4 consistently over the last 20 years.
So Dublin Kerry Mayo tyrone. Why would MOR be targeting that type of team?
As much chance as Wicklow winning an Ireland as them boys.
Can't see Dublin being a top 2 team for many more years given their age profile. Tyrone fair enough there's a big challenge to get them back to all ireland winning level but plenty coming through to work with
Would Oisin not become a major contender for the Armagh job. Would he go backroom with MC Geeney in his last year? Same as Mc Geeney and Grimley.
It seems to be the way Armagh like to operate and in fairness it bloods the next man. They need to think about Mc Keevers role as well though.
I think McGeeney is doing a good job. Fair enough he has relegated them this year and they've won nothing of note but they've contested two humdinger quarter-finals and their supporters travel in hope in great numbers for every game and there's something to be said for that.
Quote from: rrhf on July 07, 2023, 11:27:31 PM
Would Oisin not become a major contender for the Armagh job. Would he go backroom with MC Geeney in his last year? Same as Mc Geeney and Grimley.
It seems to be the way Armagh like to operate and in fairness it bloods the next man. They need to think about Mc Keevers role as well though.
Yeah him or Tony Mac. Wouldn't have McKeever near it to be brutally honest, going by his record at club level he's the man behind the defensive shite.
McGeeney not good enough fullstop.Armagh have no other options within the county, maybe one of the McAtee's. O'Rourke be either at Tyrone or Derry. Good option if you got money is Jim Gavin or Pat Gilroy.
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
I think McGeeney is doing a good job. Fair enough he has relegated them this year and they've won nothing of note but they've contested two humdinger quarter-finals and their supporters travel in hope in great numbers for every game and there's something to be said for that.
+1
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 07, 2023, 10:47:10 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 07, 2023, 04:19:51 PM
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on July 07, 2023, 03:57:29 PM
Malachy O'Rourke or McGuinness etc would have their eyes on a much bigger prize than a small limited county like Armagh with no real AI pedigree.
(I don't think McGuinness will manage again in GAA FWIW)
They'd be targeting teams with in the top 4 consistently over the last 20 years.
So Dublin Kerry Mayo tyrone. Why would MOR be targeting that type of team?
As much chance as Wicklow winning an Ireland as them boys.
Can't see Dublin being a top 2 team for many more years given their age profile. Tyrone fair enough there's a big challenge to get them back to all ireland winning level but plenty coming through to work with
He did say top 4 consistently over the last 20 years
Kinda related to this thread; I see from Armagh facebook that the U15 and U16 squads have reached the final of the Buncrana Cup (U16) and Dermot Early Michael Glaveys (U15).
I was wondering grade these 2 competitions are
I saw that, the Buncrana Cup would be fairly prestigious - when is the last time Armagh reached the final? Haven't heard of the u15 competition before if I'm honest.
Quote from: general_lee on July 09, 2023, 11:35:25 AM
I saw that, the Buncrana Cup would be fairly prestigious - when is the last time Armagh reached the final? Haven't heard of the u15 competition before if I'm honest.
As far as I know the under 16s won the under 15 competition last year - or at least got to the final.
The Buncrana Cup final is against Tyrone.
There rumours going around that McGeeney is stepping down as Armagh manager
Going round where
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 13, 2023, 09:56:08 PM
Going round where
Around gaaboard.com.
Sure didnt he start it.
Quote from: badjawbadteast on July 13, 2023, 08:37:10 PM
There rumours going around that McGeeney is stepping down as Armagh manager
Prior to his suspension?
Wrong board lads - no one nationally gives a flying feck! ;)
Quote from: restorepride on July 13, 2023, 10:58:26 PM
Quote from: badjawbadteast on July 13, 2023, 08:37:10 PM
There rumours going around that McGeeney is stepping down as Armagh manager
Prior to his suspension?
what suspension
Haven't said much on here about Armagh and McGeeney as it's always best to let the dust settle before making judgement...At the time you be raging Armagh get beat but when you have time to think about it I think most of Armagh ones forget the pool of players we have available to us and the size of our County. Armagh are one of the smallest Counties in Ireland which approx 50% kicks with the other foot and halve that again for females, if anything I believe we punch consistently above our weight. Is KMcG the right man for the job?...I believe he is as he has them soo tight as a group and that takes a lot of doing. Aidan Forker's podcast a few days ago tells us KMCG cracks up with them in training if they're defensive or turn back with the ball instead of being on the front foot so the players have to take a lot of the flak too. I honestly believe he has the best players in the County on the panel and am not aware of any great club players excluded.
You need a lot of luck going for you and I don't think we've had the rub of the green at times, Armagh have had some bad injuries in key positions that effected us more than other teams with stronger panels. I know every team gets injuries and that's just reality but larger teams with stronger squads cope better than the Armaghs and Monaghans of this world. I would like to see him give it one more year with maybe a change in backroom team and hope next year he has a full deck to play with and get that wee bit of luck to get us over the line in tight games.
Certainly got the rub of the green in their ulster championship draw. Certainly got the rub of the green beating galway down there. Also got a massive slice of luck with that goal against westmeath but yes, Armagh have been real unfortunate this year
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 14, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Quote from: restorepride on July 13, 2023, 10:58:26 PM
Quote from: badjawbadteast on July 13, 2023, 08:37:10 PM
There rumours going around that McGeeney is stepping down as Armagh manager
Prior to his suspension?
what suspension
The shoulder on the Monaghan player, when he threw the dummy tit out again.
Quote from: illdecide on July 14, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
You need a lot of luck going for you and I don't think we've had the rub of the green at times, Armagh have had some bad injuries in key positions that effected us more than other teams with stronger panels. I know every team gets injuries and that's just reality but larger teams with stronger squads cope better than the Armaghs and Monaghans of this world. I would like to see him give it one more year with maybe a change in backroom team and hope next year he has a full deck to play with and get that wee bit of luck to get us over the line in tight games.
If Oisin O'Neill's injury had been correctly diagnosed then he would have been back this year and it isn't a major stretch to see that giving Armagh one extra point against Derry or Monaghan. We'll see today about Kerry and Dublin, but there isn't a whole pile between Derry, Monaghan, Galway and Mayo and small things make a difference. One injury to Clifford would make a big difference to Kerry and modern Dublin have afew players they could not do without either.
Quote from: An Watcher on July 14, 2023, 06:25:21 PM
Certainly got the rub of the green in their ulster championship draw. Certainly got the rub of the green beating galway down there. Also got a massive slice of luck with that goal against westmeath but yes, Armagh have been real unfortunate this year
Armagh are over performing. They're also the luckiest team around. Armagh fans are and always have been deluded. The county wins virtually nothing at underage yet they expect Ulster and all
Ireland titles.
Please change KMcG. Obscurity for 10 more years awaits.
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2023, 08:12:29 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on July 14, 2023, 06:25:21 PM
Certainly got the rub of the green in their ulster championship draw. Certainly got the rub of the green beating galway down there. Also got a massive slice of luck with that goal against westmeath but yes, Armagh have been real unfortunate this year
Armagh are over performing. They're also the luckiest team around. Armagh fans are and always have been deluded. The county wins virtually nothing at underage yet they expect Ulster and all
Ireland titles.
Please change KMcG. Obscurity for 10 more years awaits.
Come on, try harder. Youse remind me of rangers fans, the similarities are uncanny.
Quote from: general_lee on July 16, 2023, 12:58:39 PM
Come on, try harder. Youse remind me of rangers fans, the similarities are uncanny.
Like rangers fans, but not as intelligent.
Quote from: illdecide on July 14, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
At the time you be raging Armagh get beat but when you have time to think about it I think most of Armagh ones forget the pool of players we have available to us and the size of our County. Armagh are one of the smallest Counties in Ireland which approx 50% kicks with the other foot and halve that again for females, if anything I believe we punch consistently above our weight.
How is this an excuse when you were beaten by Monaghan?
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 16, 2023, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 14, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
At the time you be raging Armagh get beat but when you have time to think about it I think most of Armagh ones forget the pool of players we have available to us and the size of our County. Armagh are one of the smallest Counties in Ireland which approx 50% kicks with the other foot and halve that again for females, if anything I believe we punch consistently above our weight.
How is this an excuse when you were beaten by Monaghan?
When did Monaghan last beat Armagh at Gaelic football? They did marginally win a penalty taking competition.
They beat them fair and square and had more desire to go through
Armagh filled the togs with plenty of chances to win it and put Monaghan away
A losers mentality still evident after 9 years of Geezzaaa
Whatever happened to plans for the training centre in Portadown, still on track or stalled?
Quote from: balladmaker on July 18, 2023, 06:20:47 PM
Whatever happened to plans for the training centre in Portadown, still on track or stalled?
Where do Armagh currently train?
Quote from: marty34 on July 18, 2023, 10:58:52 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 18, 2023, 06:20:47 PM
Whatever happened to plans for the training centre in Portadown, still on track or stalled?
Where do Armagh currently train?
Callanbridge. Armagh City
Quote from: armaghniac on July 16, 2023, 06:50:39 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 16, 2023, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 14, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
At the time you be raging Armagh get beat but when you have time to think about it I think most of Armagh ones forget the pool of players we have available to us and the size of our County. Armagh are one of the smallest Counties in Ireland which approx 50% kicks with the other foot and halve that again for females, if anything I believe we punch consistently above our weight.
How is this an excuse when you were beaten by Monaghan?
When did Monaghan last beat Armagh at Gaelic football? They did marginally win a penalty taking competition.
A couple of weeks ago. Don't you remember? Before that 2021 Ulster semi final?
Quote from: balladmaker on July 18, 2023, 06:20:47 PM
Whatever happened to plans for the training centre in Portadown, still on track or stalled?
Work is due to start shortly I believe.
Donaghy step down ?
See rumours on the Armagh forum
Any news ?
Mickey Harte would do some job with Armagh.
Has geezer signed up for another rattle at the McKenna cup yet
Lol, the most unsuccessful manager in GAA history
Quote from: naka on July 24, 2023, 08:12:50 PM
Donaghy step down ?
See rumours on the Armagh forum
Any news ?
Just read something that he's returning to Basketball for one last season so id say there's legs to the rumour ok.
Quote from: An Watcher on July 26, 2023, 12:03:05 AM
Lol, the most unsuccessful manager in GAA history
The most successful (at keeping his job) unsuccessful manager in GAA history.
The fact that Armagh didn't get rid of him years ago is a a fairly dammng indictment of the Armagh County Board.
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on July 25, 2023, 11:56:07 PM
Has geezer signed up for another rattle at the McKenna cup yet
Andy Watters in Irish News reporting that clubs will vote on this. Could be Kildare all over again for Geezer. If it is up to the clubs I think will be voted out, but the players would want him to stay.
ARMAGH clubs will decide whether Kieran McGeeney remains as manager for another season.
The Irish News understands that a meeting of the county's clubs was hosted by the Armagh County Board last Monday night at which a full and frank discussion of the 2023 season took place. The upshot of that meeting was that delegates were asked to return to their clubs and discuss the merits of the current management. They will reconvene (probably within the next fortnight) and vote on whether Mullaghbawn native McGeeney should continue as Orchard county bainisteoir.
With nine seasons behind him, McGeeney is Ireland's longest-serving manager.
The 2002 All-Ireland-winning captain guided Armagh from Division Three to Division One and, despite relegation to the second tier this season, the Orchardmen came agonisingly close to make a definitive Championship breakthrough.
Armagh beat Antrim, Cavan and then Down to reach their first Ulster Championship final since 2008 and took on Anglo-Celt Cup holders Derry at Clones. Despite falling behind to a fortuitous Brendan Rogers goal, Armagh battled back and came within a whisker of winning before the Oak Leafers forced extra-time and then a penalty shootout. With goalkeeper Odhran Lynch outstanding, they won to retain their title.
In the wake of that disappointment, Armagh's form dipped in the subsequent All-Ireland group phase and they scraped past Westmeath and lost to Tyrone before producing arguably the best display of the McGeeney era to beat 2022 All-Ireland finalists Galway in Carrick-on-Shannon.
Armagh progressed to a second All-Ireland quarter-final in succession with that win and their front-foot football against Galway raised hopes that a semi-final was within their grasp. They met Monaghan at Croke Park but lacked the attacking intent they had displayed a fortnight previously and the Farney County prevailed on a penalties – the third Championship shootout in succession that Armagh have lost.
The 2023 season was a tale of what might have been for McGeeney and his Armagh side. There has been criticism of his team's inability to get over the line in big games and of McGeeney's style of play but it is understood that the Orchard county players remain united behind their manager and want him to remain in the role he has held since 2015.
McGeeney is prepared to stay on for another season and the Armagh clubs will decide if that is to be the case.
Quote from: statto on July 27, 2023, 04:15:36 PM
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on July 25, 2023, 11:56:07 PM
Has geezer signed up for another rattle at the McKenna cup yet
Andy Watters in Irish News reporting that clubs will vote on this. Could be Kildare all over again. If it is up to the clubs I think will be voted out, but the players would want him to stay.
I'd agree it could well be a case of deja vu now. Before now I'd thought Geezer would be back in post next season, now I'm not so sure.
I could see this ending acrimoniously, a lukewarm vote of confidence from the clubs and McGeeney could well say let someone else at it. I really don't see the need for a vote if he's one year left but i assume it's to try and get a ringing endorsement, I'm not so sure it'll be forthcoming.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2023, 10:42:56 AM
I could see this ending acrimoniously, a lukewarm vote of confidence from the clubs and McGeeney could well say let someone else at it. I really don't see the need for a vote if he's one year left but i assume it's to try and get a ringing endorsement, I'm not so sure it'll be forthcoming.
Club delegates were told that this is not the case. The agreement is on a year to year basis.
That's different then, probably gives McGeeney a bit of cover to accept a less than ringing endorsement (IMO).
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2023, 10:42:56 AM
I could see this ending acrimoniously, a lukewarm vote of confidence from the clubs and McGeeney could well say let someone else at it. I really don't see the need for a vote if he's one year left but i assume it's to try and get a ringing endorsement, I'm not so sure it'll be forthcoming.
A fair bit of angst in the clubs as to how we lost key games this year
Think he will get his endorsement but tbf management gets a b- this year
So it might simply be a marker
County board right to ask the clubs given the amount of monies spent and the amount of players outside the 26 who are prevented on match weekends from playing with their clubs
Quote from: naka on July 28, 2023, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2023, 10:42:56 AM
I could see this ending acrimoniously, a lukewarm vote of confidence from the clubs and McGeeney could well say let someone else at it. I really don't see the need for a vote if he's one year left but i assume it's to try and get a ringing endorsement, I'm not so sure it'll be forthcoming.
A fair bit of angst in the clubs as to how we lost key games this year
Think he will get his endorsement but tbf management gets a b- this year
So it might simply be a marker
County board right to ask the clubs given the amount of monies spent and the amount of players outside the 26 who are prevented on match weekends from playing with their clubs
I wouldn't be so sure. I think alot of club delegates be unhappy with the style of play and the non learnings between the Ulster final and Monaghan game when a man up and unable to see the game out. If he committed to playing a more front foot style wouldn't be adverse to him having another year. He has all the best players in Armagh invested in the thing, which is a big thing when you compare that to say the situations in Derry or Tyrone where players of county standard are opting out for one reason or another.
Any teams McKeever seems to be involved with are very defensive minded, appears doubtful Donaghy be around next year. Think the clubs would need to know who is on the ticket next year before making any informed decision.
Given the age profile of the team, McGeeney leaving now could result in quite a few high profile players at the same time e.g. Forker, Grugan, Campbell, Murnin as just a few ... personally, I'd be giving him one more year and leaving it at that. What would be success for Armagh at this stage .. probably an Ulster title / All Ireland semi-final / promotion back to Div. 1. Anyone recommending that the manager goes now would need to have a good idea as to who will replace him. I'm not aware of any better players in the county who are not involved, would love to see Oisin O'Neill back again and hopefully that looks to be on the cards for next year.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2023, 03:42:13 PM
Given the age profile of the team, McGeeney leaving now could result in quite a few high profile players at the same time e.g. Forker, Grugan, Campbell, Murnin as just a few ... personally, I'd be giving him one more year and leaving it at that. What would be success for Armagh at this stage .. probably an Ulster title / All Ireland semi-final / promotion back to Div. 1. Anyone recommending that the manager goes now would need to have a good idea as to who will replace him. I'm not aware of any better players in the county who are not involved, would love to see Oisin O'Neill back again and hopefully that looks to be on the cards for next year.
This seems to be the vibe generally. Give him one more year. But what happens then? Say he gets promotion back to Div 1 (quite possible), and gets to another quarterfinal but beat by a big gun (Kerry / Dublin). No ulster title. McGeeney won't walk away. He will see it as another year of progress....
They won't be as lucky with their ulster championship draw next year
G looking in from outside, like Tyrone, Armagh need a new manager.
See Ethan Rafferty suffered a very bad injury in a club game last night, reports have varied from a straight leg break to a combo ankle dislocation / leg break or knee injury. Terrible news for him, sounds very serious.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 29, 2023, 08:38:03 AM
See Ethan Rafferty suffered a very bad injury in a club game last night, reports have varied from a straight leg break to a combo ankle dislocation / leg break or knee injury. Terrible news for him, sounds very serious.
Ethan has had no luck at all
Hopefully a Speedy recovery for him
Quote from: bennydorano on July 29, 2023, 08:38:03 AM
See Ethan Rafferty suffered a very bad injury in a club game last night, reports have varied from a straight leg break to a combo ankle dislocation / leg break or knee injury. Terrible news for him, sounds very serious.
Very sorry to hear that, here's to a speedy recovery Ethan.
Quote from: knockitdown on July 28, 2023, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2023, 03:42:13 PM
Given the age profile of the team, McGeeney leaving now could result in quite a few high profile players at the same time e.g. Forker, Grugan, Campbell, Murnin as just a few ... personally, I'd be giving him one more year and leaving it at that. What would be success for Armagh at this stage .. probably an Ulster title / All Ireland semi-final / promotion back to Div. 1. Anyone recommending that the manager goes now would need to have a good idea as to who will replace him. I'm not aware of any better players in the county who are not involved, would love to see Oisin O'Neill back again and hopefully that looks to be on the cards for next year.
This seems to be the vibe generally. Give him one more year. But what happens then? Say he gets promotion back to Div 1 (quite possible), and gets to another quarterfinal but beat by a big gun (Kerry / Dublin). No ulster title. McGeeney won't walk away. He will see it as another year of progress....
I just think changing management now, on a team that has potentially one serious roll of the dice left in 2024, would be counter-productive.
Or maybe now is the time for a new to come in a get a new tune out of the old fiddles? No matter what the 2 Brian's would never have won an AI. Perhaps Geezer is at that point too where no matter what he does with this group they will not make the final push through. He couldn't do it with Kildare. He got them to a certain level and that was it. Maybe he is not a 'lucky' manager....Joe Kernan was a very good manager but he was also 'lucky'. I was in a meeting where it was give or take whether he would stay in the Cross job prior to when we made the breakthrough. He was 'lucky' as he had a group of talented players coming through and they then went on to bedrock his Armagh team. We won lots of game by 1-2 points, lucky points, battled hard, but we always seemed to come out on the right side of the bounce, same in 2002. I don't think that 'luck' follows Geezer and that's a reality.
Nothing change for Armagh nxt year, if they keep at current form they wouldn't progress any more, they might actually regress. Derry won more this year and played better and I am of the opinion that they need Malachy O'Rourke if they are to push on, mainly because he be fit to bring in a no.of players who wouldn't play for, Gallagher. I still keep Meenagh but from the Clifford Situation additional help is required Management wise.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 29, 2023, 08:38:03 AM
See Ethan Rafferty suffered a very bad injury in a club game last night, reports have varied from a straight leg break to a combo ankle dislocation / leg break or knee injury. Terrible news for him, sounds very serious.
Wishing him a speedy recovery.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 29, 2023, 01:52:15 PM
Or maybe now is the time for a new to come in a get a new tune out of the old fiddles? No matter what the 2 Brian's would never have won an AI. Perhaps Geezer is at that point too where no matter what he does with this group they will not make the final push through. He couldn't do it with Kildare. He got them to a certain level and that was it. Maybe he is not a 'lucky' manager....Joe Kernan was a very good manager but he was also 'lucky'. I was in a meeting where it was give or take whether he would stay in the Cross job prior to when we made the breakthrough. He was 'lucky' as he had a group of talented players coming through and they then went on to bedrock his Armagh team. We won lots of game by 1-2 points, lucky points, battled hard, but we always seemed to come out on the right side of the bounce, same in 2002. I don't think that 'luck' follows Geezer and that's a reality.
Bcb1
Cross objected to Mc geeney I believe
Although it's second hand information so can't confirm this ( joys of law )
For me he gets another year
The vote against was minimal so it will be reasserted that he gets another year
I do agree though that he needs to buck up
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 29, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Nothing change for Armagh nxt year, if they keep at current form they wouldn't progress any more, they might actually regress. Derry won more this year and played better and I am of the opinion that they need Malachy O'Rourke if they are to push on, mainly because he be fit to bring in a no.of players who wouldn't play for, Gallagher. I still keep Meenagh but from the Clifford Situation additional help is required Management wise.
Who have you in mind?
2024 Division 2 (in no particular order)
1. Armagh
2. Donegal
3. Louth
4. Cork
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Fermanagh
8. Cavan
I'd expect to win all home games and the majority of away games.
After O'Neill's videoed actions yesterday, surely McGeeney/new manager can't have him as the leader of the team?
Quote from: 5times5times on July 31, 2023, 07:08:28 PM
After O'Neill's videoed actions yesterday, surely McGeeney/new manager can't have him as the leader of the team?
He shouldn't have been anyway. He is still relatively young and isn't especially a leader in that sense.
Quote from: Orior on July 30, 2023, 07:37:26 PM
2024 Division 2 (in no particular order)
1. Armagh
2. Donegal
3. Louth
4. Cork
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Fermanagh
8. Cavan
I'd expect to win all home games and the majority of away games.
Deluded
Quote from: trailer on August 01, 2023, 01:14:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 30, 2023, 07:37:26 PM
2024 Division 2 (in no particular order)
1. Armagh
2. Donegal
3. Louth
4. Cork
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Fermanagh
8. Cavan
I'd expect to win all home games and the majority of away games.
Deluded
In what sense? Armagh have lost AI quarter finals in last 2 years and biggest losing margin against any division 1 side was three points last year. They will be favourites for promotion and have been competitive at a higher level consistently more than any other side in the division.
Donegal a shambles last year, Louth are punching well above their weight, Cork are improving but probably need to find a couple of forwards, Kildare and Meath are inconsistent, Fermanagh will be dogged but lack quality upfront, Cavan Armagh disposed of with a bit to spare in championship.
Quote from: statto on August 01, 2023, 01:32:47 PM
In what sense? Armagh have lost AI quarter finals in last 2 years and biggest losing margin against any division 1 side was three points last year. They will be favourites for promotion and have been competitive at a higher level consistently more than any other side in the division.
Donegal a shambles last year, Louth are punching well above their weight, Cork are improving but probably need to find a couple of forwards, Kildare and Meath are inconsistent, Fermanagh will be dogged but lack quality upfront, Cavan Armagh disposed of with a bit to spare in championship.
Indeed Armagh have become more consistent, they are never out of any game in the league, their failure comes about from a lack of pushing on an extra bit when the occasion calls for it.
Being two points short of a Div 1 team should still give a good chance against as Div 2 team. We bear Donegal this year, we able to deal with Cavan in the championship. Fermanagh are no better than Cavan. Louth might be dangerous, they would like to beat Armagh. Armagh might well win two out of three against Meath, Cork and Kildare.
Next seasons League seems like an eternity away at the minute given that the AI series is only just finished. I think I'd be waiting until after the vote on the McGeeney management team before I'd be rushing to judgement on next season.
Quote from: statto on August 01, 2023, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 01, 2023, 01:14:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 30, 2023, 07:37:26 PM
2024 Division 2 (in no particular order)
1. Armagh
2. Donegal
3. Louth
4. Cork
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Fermanagh
8. Cavan
I'd expect to win all home games and the majority of away games.
Deluded
In what sense? Armagh have lost AI quarter finals in last 2 years and biggest losing margin against any division 1 side was three points last year. They will be favourites for promotion and have been competitive at a higher level consistently more than any other side in the division.
Donegal a shambles last year, Louth are punching well above their weight, Cork are improving but probably need to find a couple of forwards, Kildare and Meath are inconsistent, Fermanagh will be dogged but lack quality upfront, Cavan Armagh disposed of with a bit to spare in championship.
The child is best ignored mate
Will Armagh defend their way to a national league 2 title. I don't think so. Most of them teams you don't rate will have a go at them and Armagh will bend over and take it..
Yet another Tyrone WUM.
Not necessarily. Armagh showed white flags against Derry. Kerry in the league and against Monaghan. Didn't go for the win in those three games. Am I wrong?
It's one thing saying we played too conservatively this year (which we did), but that's a bit different to lying down and 'taking it' Nobody beat us handily this year, every team we played had to work like hell to beat us.
I suspect that div 2 will be a lot of tough games next season. Regardless of championship form and ability it's a very level league
given they had 3 home games last year do armagh get 4 home games this year?
Quote from: naka on August 02, 2023, 12:35:23 PM
given they had 3 home games last year do armagh get 4 home games this year?
Bar cork, no away journeys would be that bad
1. Armagh
2. Donegal
3. Louth
4. Cork
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Fermanagh
8. Cavan
Ironically, Cork away would probably attract the biggest away support of the campaign. The NFL weekend away trip.
Quote from: 5times5times on August 02, 2023, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: naka on August 02, 2023, 12:35:23 PM
given they had 3 home games last year do armagh get 4 home games this year?
Bar cork, no away journeys would be that bad
1. Armagh
2. Donegal
3. Louth
4. Cork
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Fermanagh
8. Cavan
i get that but 4 home games is always a help
donegal away, cavan away would be tough as both with new managers, kildare and Meath always awkward away so the more at home the better
especially as we may be trying out a new keeper with Ethan out for a while
Quote from: naka on August 02, 2023, 12:35:23 PM
given they had 3 home games last year do armagh get 4 home games this year?
Not necessarily. You might end up with 5 or 6 teams in div 2 next Season who had 3 home games this season. So they can't all have the reverse (4 home games) next season . Some team(s) might end up with only 3 home again
McGeeney stays on for another crack at Ulster
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0807/1398557-mcgeeney-wins-armagh-vote-dooher-and-logan-to-continue/
The right decision 👍👍
At least that's out of the way and the vote was unanimous and we can move on ahead for next year. The whole process was a fudge from the beginning and I think the county board got the result they wanted all along. Personally I think he deserves one more year on the basis that he has made us competitive and due to the fact that this group of players might only have one last throw of dice to try and achieve something. But I just hope that we veer away from the slow lateral, handpassing possession based stuff to play some decent attacking football. I presume that Gilligan coming in for Donaghy will get the task of improving our attack, let's hope he can add something new.
Quote from: Sandy Hill on August 07, 2023, 09:38:55 PM
The right decision 👍👍
Says all the other counties.
Serial loser.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 07, 2023, 09:51:29 PM
At least that's out of the way and the vote was unanimous and we can move on ahead for next year. The whole process was a fudge from the beginning and I think the county board got the result they wanted all along. Personally I think he deserves one more year on the basis that he has made us competitive and due to the fact that this group of players might only have one last throw of dice to try and achieve something. But I just hope that we veer away from the slow lateral, handpassing possession based stuff to play some decent attacking football. I presume that Gilligan coming in for Donaghy will get the task of improving our attack, let's hope he can add something new.
Have I missed some news?? Did hear a rumour tonight that Donaghy is in the shake up for the Tipp job??
Quote from: bennydorano on August 07, 2023, 10:39:38 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 07, 2023, 09:51:29 PM
At least that's out of the way and the vote was unanimous and we can move on ahead for next year. The whole process was a fudge from the beginning and I think the county board got the result they wanted all along. Personally I think he deserves one more year on the basis that he has made us competitive and due to the fact that this group of players might only have one last throw of dice to try and achieve something. But I just hope that we veer away from the slow lateral, handpassing possession based stuff to play some decent attacking football. I presume that Gilligan coming in for Donaghy will get the task of improving our attack, let's hope he can add something new.
Have I missed some news?? Did hear a rumour tonight that Donaghy is in the shake up for the Tipp job??
Did you receive a Tipp off?
Brilliant news for the rest of the country ;D
Was Gilligan cheaper than Donaghy?
It's a form of Stockholm Syndrome at this point
Quote from: yellowcard on August 07, 2023, 09:51:29 PM
At least that's out of the way and the vote was unanimous and we can move on ahead for next year. The whole process was a fudge from the beginning and I think the county board got the result they wanted all along. Personally I think he deserves one more year on the basis that he has made us competitive and due to the fact that this group of players might only have one last throw of dice to try and achieve something. But I just hope that we veer away from the slow lateral, handpassing possession based stuff to play some decent attacking football. I presume that Gilligan coming in for Donaghy will get the task of improving our attack, let's hope he can add something new.
I would agree. Is Donaghy away for sure and Gilligan confirmed as replacement?
Quote from: statto on August 08, 2023, 08:53:30 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 07, 2023, 09:51:29 PM
At least that's out of the way and the vote was unanimous and we can move on ahead for next year. The whole process was a fudge from the beginning and I think the county board got the result they wanted all along. Personally I think he deserves one more year on the basis that he has made us competitive and due to the fact that this group of players might only have one last throw of dice to try and achieve something. But I just hope that we veer away from the slow lateral, handpassing possession based stuff to play some decent attacking football. I presume that Gilligan coming in for Donaghy will get the task of improving our attack, let's hope he can add something new.
I would agree. Is Donaghy away for sure and Gilligan confirmed as replacement?
Haven't seen it confirmed anywhere so we'll just have to let the dust settle now. If Donaghy does go as expected though its hard to evaluate whether he was a success or not as backroom staff are not held to the same scrutiny as the manager who usually ends up taking most of the flak.
Other counties happy with that, Armagh people must see something we don't, same with Tyrone to be honest.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 09, 2023, 12:21:49 AM
Other counties happy with that, Armagh people must see something we don't, same with Tyrone to be honest.
Sometimes it's the devil you know given not much else out there available .
The decision is made .
Quote from: naka on August 09, 2023, 08:17:39 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 09, 2023, 12:21:49 AM
Other counties happy with that, Armagh people must see something we don't, same with Tyrone to be honest.
Sometimes it's the devil you know given not much else out there available .
The decision is made .
Its an increasingly small pool of managers from which to fish from. Some viable and capable candidates simply can't give it the time and energy it requires and combine it with their careers. It is much easier to do that on the club circuit where you can still combine it with a day job with much less pressure. I'm not sure how the likes of Dooher and Logan do it, I really thought they'd step down especially as they have already climbed to the top.
From an Armagh perspective I think McGeeney has us punching above our weight consistently and that has raised expectations internally and externally - artificially so if you ask me.
I think he has put us in the mix and we have a punchers chance now with the best teams. What happens next i'm not sure - probably down to whether Rian Turbo and TK can kick on individually whether we can identify a marker to release Forker to the middle third.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 09, 2023, 12:21:49 AM
Other counties happy with that, Armagh people must see something we don't, same with Tyrone to be honest.
He has all the best players in the county playing for him, has made Armagh extremely competitive, continuity is good, no other stand out candidate as this stage to take the role, kildare were in a similar position all those years ago fell off a cliff after he left would be some of the reasons.
I would have issues with the tactics probably most of the year and lack of learning taken from ulster final to monaghan game particularly, but with no other stand out if we can play more on front foot next year be happy enough give him another go at it.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 09, 2023, 09:20:20 AM
From an Armagh perspective I think McGeeney has us punching above our weight consistently and that has raised expectations internally and externally - artificially so if you ask me.
I think he has put us in the mix and we have a punchers chance now with the best teams. What happens next i'm not sure - probably down to whether Rian Turbo and TK can kick on individually whether we can identify a marker to release Forker to the middle third.
I think there is a lot of truth in that, the frustration has become more about the style of play because most matches this year felt like a bit of a grind. If we can get Oisin O'Neill and Tiernan Kelly back fit and playing around the middle third next year it might help with the style of football. Both are good kickers of the ball and it might release Rian to spend more time inside and get back to what worked in 2021 in terms of the fast attacking football we were producing. We also have to hope that Ethan Rafferty can make a full recovery. Get back to the 2021 performance level and I think the majority of the supporters will find it easy to get behind the team again.
As mentioned above, the current Armagh team are in the mix and have a punchers chance on any given day, and with a little bit of luck/game management, could just as easily have been in consecutive All Ireland Semi-Finals, as well as Ulster Champions, so it's fine margins.
I definitely think a tactician needs to be added to the management team, as there is no hiding the shortfalls that occurred on the line on more than one occasion, and this resides directly with Geezer.
I'm all for another year, but the backroom team needs to be strengthened as well.
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/08/08/news/keep_the_faith_armagh_can_make_breakthrough_next_season_says_ciaran_higgins-3512326/
Armagh on the brink... Orchardmen can make breakthrough under McGeeney next season says Ciaran Higgins
ARMAGH defender Ciaran Higgins has no doubt that Kieran McGeeney's men can make the breakthrough next year that so frustratingly eluded them last season.
The Orchardmen will have McGeeney as their manager for the 10th consecutive season after the long-serving former county captain received the backing of the Armagh clubs (dual clubs had two votes) and executive committee members at a meeting on Monday night. Of the 62 votes cast, 46 were in favour of McGeeney remaining as manager with 16 voting against. Support of almost 75 per cent is a ringing endorsement of the current management and Maghery clubman Higgins has no doubt that Armagh can tip the balance in their favour in 2024 when they will target promotion back to Division One and the Championship silverware that has remained just out of their reach.
"I think we definitely can push on next year," he said. "We lost twice on penalties this year and we can definitely go further. It's a kick of the ball... If those games we lost on penalties had gone the other way the season looks completely different. We could have won the Ulster Championship and we could have been into the All-Ireland semi-final if those penalties had gone our way. "So you have to look at it with that detail. You can't just look at it in terms of what we did or didn't achieve, you have to look between the lines and see how close we came."
Higgins forced his way into the Armagh side for the vital Championship round three group stage match against Galway in Carrick-on-Shannon and he grabbed his chance to impress as the Orchardmen clinched the win that saw them progress to the All-Ireland quarter-final stage. He admits that his lack of game-time was a disappointment, and he was unlucky to miss out in Armagh's next game against Monaghan at Croke Park. "I loved getting in to play in that game to be honest," he said. "You put in some hard work and graft all season so it was good to get some game-time and get a good win out of that Galway game when we needed it. I thoroughly enjoyed that and hopefully I can push on from there. "It definitely is difficult when you don't get the game-time you want. But you understand that it's a squad game and if you have a big squad - over 40 boys - then someone has to sit on the bench. That's what happens in team sports – someone has to do that. "I was fortunate enough this year to get the shout to go and actually play and get a good result out of it."
With the county season over, the Armagh players can concentrate on the club game now and Higgins's Maghery were drawn in a very challenging 'group of death' for the round robin stage of the senior championship alongside Dromintee, Killeavy and Ballymacnab. "If you want to win a championship you have to beat anybody and everybody," he said. "So, whoever we've got, we have to try and beat and that's it really. A senior championship winner in 2016 (Maghery's first ever title) and 2020, Higgins sees several contenders emerging this year including perennial challengers Crossmaglen Rangers and Division 1A winners Clann Eireann. "In 2016 we won it for the first time and there's been a few teams that have won it since then so that's made it very competitive and hopefully it'll be the same this year," said Higgins. "I don't think anyone will look past Cross – all the teams in that top four in Division 1A (Clann Eireann, Crossmaglen, Killeavy and Madden) are going to be up there but Cross are probably the favourites again. "We have a good team as well. We don't underestimate or overestimate anybody and we'll go as hard as we can from the start, hopefully get a few wins under our belt and try and keep the momentum going."
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Why do we have too many clubs? We have one and a half times the population of Monaghan, and pro rate that should mean 50 clubs. You can hardly argue that Monaghan is unsuccessful.
Just listened back to the GAA Social Podcast....
McGeeney's not a bad owl divil!
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Said it many times on here and other forums - the size of our county isn't the problem.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 09, 2023, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Why do we have too many clubs? We have one and a half times the population of Monaghan, and pro rate that should mean 50 clubs. You can hardly argue that Monaghan is unsuccessful.
Monaghan punch well above their weight. We also have a sizeable section of the population that is hostile to the GAA
Quote from: Armamike on August 09, 2023, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Said it many times on here and other forums - the size of our county isn't the problem.
It adds to the problem. Clubs are on top of each other in some parts of the county where only would would suffice.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 09, 2023, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Why do we have too many clubs? We have one and a half times the population of Monaghan, and pro rate that should mean 50 clubs. You can hardly argue that Monaghan is unsuccessful.
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 10, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
Quote from: illdecide on August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 09, 2023, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Why do we have too many clubs? We have one and a half times the population of Monaghan, and pro rate that should mean 50 clubs. You can hardly argue that Monaghan is unsuccessful.
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
I think he has already factored that in.
All in Armagh's population is around 3 times Monaghan's.
Indeed I have. In 2021 Armagh's population was 194,394, and while 40-45% are prejudiced against the GAA, that still leaves a brave few.
The population of Monaghan was 65,288 and some people do wear a sash in Monaghan too.
Quote from: general_lee on August 10, 2023, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: Armamike on August 09, 2023, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Said it many times on here and other forums - the size of our county isn't the problem.
It adds to the problem. Clubs are on top of each other in some parts of the county where only would would suffice.
Can say that about other counties. Look at the Coalisland area for example, can't swing a cat without hitting a club.
Quote from: illdecide on August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 09, 2023, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Why do we have too many clubs? We have one and a half times the population of Monaghan, and pro rate that should mean 50 clubs. You can hardly argue that Monaghan is unsuccessful.
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
Is our playing population much less than Tyrone's?
QuoteIs our playing population much less than Tyrone's?
It might be 5-10% less, but not enough to use as an excuse.
Quote from: illdecide on August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 AM
...
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
Not quite 50% unionist these days, and diminishing... ;)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 10, 2023, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: illdecide on August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 AM
...
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
Not quite 50% unionist these days, and diminishing... ;)
According to calculations from the erudite folks on Sluggerotoole Armagh in 2019 was 54% nationalist, 6% other and 40% unionist.
The latter number is probably 38% now.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 10, 2023, 11:07:56 AM
QuoteIs our playing population much less than Tyrone's?
It might be 5-10% less, but not enough to use as an excuse.
Agreed. And it's not enough to explain the difference in success at underage level over the years.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 10, 2023, 12:08:34 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 10, 2023, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: illdecide on August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 AM
...
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
Not quite 50% unionist these days, and diminishing... ;)
According to calculations from the erudite folks on Sluggerotoole Armagh in 1999 was 54% nationalist, 6% other and 40% unionist.
The latter number is probably 38% now.
That's 24 years ago.
Things will have changed a bit since then.
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2023, 02:15:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 10, 2023, 12:08:34 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 10, 2023, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: illdecide on August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 AM
...
Yeah but 50% of Monaghan don't run around with a sash on...
You have to remember that Armagh is a small County but is 50% Unionist too
Not quite 50% unionist these days, and diminishing... ;)
According to calculations from the erudite folks on Sluggerotoole Armagh in 1999 was 54% nationalist, 6% other and 40% unionist.
The latter number is probably 38% now.
That's 24 years ago.
Things will have changed a bit since then.
my typo, I meant 2019.
Quote from: Armamike on August 10, 2023, 10:52:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 10, 2023, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: Armamike on August 09, 2023, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 09, 2023, 03:23:01 PM
I think the general feeling seems to be; if McGeeney goes, who do you get in instead and what will they do different? I think the players still want him, at worse a few were indifferent but haven't really heard of any of them wanting rid. Armagh is a small county with too many clubs and too many of these clubs are small country clubs. In that sense, Armagh have probably overachieved slightly in the last couple of years.
Said it many times on here and other forums - the size of our county isn't the problem.
It adds to the problem. Clubs are on top of each other in some parts of the county where only would would suffice.
Can say that about other counties. Look at the Coalisland area for example, can't swing a cat without hitting a club.
yes and they're all crap!
Well Na Fianna & Clonoe are regular Senior champions so not really, but I cycle out that part of the world regular and there are quite a few within a few miles radius, ones that I can think of - Killyman, Brackaville, Derrylaughan, Derrytresk, Brockagh - then within10-15m there are a lot of big clubs but thats just the nature of the GAA I suppose.
Clonoe are intermediate this year and Na Fianna currently sit 2 pts off bottom of Div1 and haven't a whole lot coming through at underage. By Tyrone standards yes 2 championships in 13 years is about as close to regular as you'll get but can't see either of them winning senior championships anytime soon.
Shite is a bit OTT, apply those same standards to Armagh club football and what would you have? Clonoe would undoubtedly be competitive in the Armagh SFC, no matter their current status. Na Fianna are a strong senior side, recent Tyrone championships show that. The 'shiteness' increases as you move further away from the island no doubt, due to too many clubs among sparse populations.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 12, 2023, 11:43:20 AM
Shite is a bit OTT, apply those same standards to Armagh club football and what would you have? Clonoe would undoubtedly be competitive in the Armagh SFC, no matter their current status. Na Fianna are a strong senior side, recent Tyrone championships show that. The 'shiteness' increases as you move further away from the island no doubt, due to too many clubs among sparse populations.
Is that whole area not packed with houses?
Good road network for workers in Belfast, Dungannon and Cookstown.
If I was an Armagh man, Mc Geeney deserves another term..He has helped make Armagh punch and kick above their own weight...
Quote from: bennydorano on August 12, 2023, 11:43:20 AM
Shite is a bit OTT, apply those same standards to Armagh club football and what would you have? Clonoe would undoubtedly be competitive in the Armagh SFC, no matter their current status. Na Fianna are a strong senior side, recent Tyrone championships show that. The 'shiteness' increases as you move further away from the island no doubt, due to too many clubs among sparse populations.
Apply the same principle in Armagh - too many clubs and too many small clubs. If you cross the blackwater into Armagh you have an array of clubs (maybe not as concentrated) but all small clubs in a staunchly unionist part of the county. With the exception of Maghery all junior/lower intermediate standard.
Quote from: marty34 on August 12, 2023, 12:31:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 12, 2023, 11:43:20 AM
Shite is a bit OTT, apply those same standards to Armagh club football and what would you have? Clonoe would undoubtedly be competitive in the Armagh SFC, no matter their current status. Na Fianna are a strong senior side, recent Tyrone championships show that. The 'shiteness' increases as you move further away from the island no doubt, due to too many clubs among sparse populations.
Is that whole area not packed with houses?
Good road network for workers in Belfast, Dungannon and Cookstown.
Dunno tbh, a very Flaggy area in parts too, I don't know where Killyman get the fenians from to play. They're likely competing with Clonmore just over the county boundary for players too. Maghery only a few miles away too.
See we won the Buncrana Cup (U16 A) and the U15 version as well today, think it was the A comp. Not too shabby, maybe things are looking up at underage.
Good to have a couple of signs of life for sure though not sure how indicative of future success those would be. The u15s wouldn't be top level competition.
It's a great competition and a superb springboard for minor football.
I remember Derry winning it in 2001 and 6 players started in the 2002 winning minor team.
Long overdue underage structures in place after years of neglect.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 12, 2023, 01:30:33 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 12, 2023, 12:31:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 12, 2023, 11:43:20 AM
Shite is a bit OTT, apply those same standards to Armagh club football and what would you have? Clonoe would undoubtedly be competitive in the Armagh SFC, no matter their current status. Na Fianna are a strong senior side, recent Tyrone championships show that. The 'shiteness' increases as you move further away from the island no doubt, due to too many clubs among sparse populations.
Is that whole area not packed with houses?
Good road network for workers in Belfast, Dungannon and Cookstown.
Dunno tbh, a very Flaggy area in parts too, I don't know where Killyman get the fenians from to play. They're likely competing with Clonmore just over the county boundary for players too. Maghery only a few miles away too.
In terms of GAA clubs in flaggy areas, Mullabrack beside Markethill and St Pauls in Holywood must be near the top.
Ideal team next year in the 1% chance we've everyone available and no injuries?
Rafferty
McKay Forker C'ONeill
McCabe McCambridge Burns
Mackin Crealey
Duffy O'ONeill Grugan
Turbitt R'ONeill Murnin
Subs
Soupy
Kelly
Cummiskey
McPartlan
Burns
Morgan
McQuillan
C Mackin
Kieran
Conaty
Could this thread not be done on the Armagh thread pages? How many steps would it take the admin to move this thread lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2023, 10:13:47 AM
Could this thread not be done on the Armagh thread pages? How many steps would it take the admin to move this thread lol
What?
Why does it matter. Anyway I want to read about how Armagh are gonna win another All Ireland.
They should write another song for getting to the Ulster Semi final.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2023, 10:13:47 AM
Could this thread not be done on the Armagh thread pages? How many steps would it take the admin to move this thread lol
I would argue we should go the other way, bring all the GAA threads back into the main forum. Given the drop-off in volume at the board it might be better to give visibility to the threads in the local and hurling sub-forums. The local threads often have subjects that would interest people in other counties (club amalgamations, reserve teams, underage setup)
#IGWT
In Geezer We Trust
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2023, 10:13:47 AM
Could this thread not be done on the Armagh thread pages? How many steps would it take the admin to move this thread lol
Nobody is asking you to read it
Quote from: 5times5times on August 16, 2023, 10:10:28 AM
Ideal team next year in the 1% chance we've everyone available and no injuries?
Rafferty
McKay Forker C'ONeill
McCabe McCambridge Burns
Mackin Crealey
Duffy O'ONeill Grugan
Turbitt R'ONeill Murnin
Subs
Soupy
Kelly
Cummiskey
McPartlan
Burns
Morgan
McQuillan
C Mackin
Kieran
Conaty
Any update on Rafferty's injury?
We need a similar minded reserve keeper
Would like Mc convillr and woods to get run outs this year as we need youth encouraged to stay the course
Would also like young cross keeper and Aaron o Neill on the panel
Quote from: restorepride on August 17, 2023, 03:50:17 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on August 16, 2023, 10:10:28 AM
Ideal team next year in the 1% chance we've everyone available and no injuries?
Rafferty
McKay Forker C'ONeill
McCabe McCambridge Burns
Mackin Crealey
Duffy O'ONeill Grugan
Turbitt R'ONeill Murnin
Subs
Soupy
Kelly
Cummiskey
McPartlan
Burns
Morgan
McQuillan
C Mackin
Kieran
Conaty
Any update on Rafferty's injury?
Listened to him on the sideline eye podcast. He seems hopeful he will be back for next season
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 17, 2023, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 17, 2023, 03:50:17 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on August 16, 2023, 10:10:28 AM
Ideal team next year in the 1% chance we've everyone available and no injuries?
Rafferty
McKay Forker C'ONeill
McCabe McCambridge Burns
Mackin Crealey
Duffy O'ONeill Grugan
Turbitt R'ONeill Murnin
Subs
Soupy
Kelly
Cummiskey
McPartlan
Burns
Morgan
McQuillan
C Mackin
Kieran
Conaty
Any update on Rafferty's injury?
Listened to him on the sideline eye podcast. He seems hopeful he will be back for next season
Heard him on Parkinson's podcast say 3 months
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/armagh/kieran-donaghys-commitment-a-huge-boost-as-armagh-aim-to-take-the-next-step/a584540301.htmlKieran
Donaghy's commitment a huge boost as Armagh aim to take the next step
Armagh manager Kieran McGeeney has received a considerable boost following confirmation that four-time Kerry All-Ireland winner Kieran Donaghy will remain as part of his management team.Donaghy has been coaching the Armagh forwards for the past three years and has struck up a considerable rapport with the entire county panel.His input into Armagh's endeavours has been considerable and he is set to have an even more significant role in the team's tactical input in 2024.
With Ciaran McKeever also expected to remain as part of the managerial team, the indications are that Armagh will enter the new campaign strongly focused on two major objectives — attaining promotion from Division Two of the Allianz League and winning the Ulster Championship.
Donaghy's continued alliance with Armagh has been given a particular welcome following the appointment of Mickey Harte as Derry manager and the installation of Raymond Galligan as the new Cavan boss with Jim McGuinness set to embark on his second term in charge of Donegal.Armagh were singularly unfortunate in the Ulster and All-Ireland Championships when they lost out to both Derry and Monaghan in penalty shoot-outs.In the Ulster Final, Derry had scored 1-15 to Armagh's 0-18 at the end of extra-time before the Oak Leaf side retained their trophy following a 3-1 success in the penalty shoot-out
Then in the All-Ireland Quarter-Finals, Armagh and Monaghan were deadlocked at 0-14 each following the end of extra-time before Monaghan just managed to scramble over the line by winning the ensuing penalty shoot-out 9-8.Success may have been singularly uplifting for Monaghan but defeat heaped a torrent of sickening anguish on a devastated Armagh side.
But right now Armagh are adopting an upwards and onwards stance as they prepare to function on the 2024 season.While it had been thought in some quarters initially that manager McGeeney might be forced to step aside, the fact that he has been given another year by the county board suggests that this might well prove his most high-pressure spell to date.
Having been in charge of Kildare for six years before taking up the Orchard County reins, McGeeney has been singularly unlucky in striking it rich in terms of capturing trophies.Indeed, the two penalty shoot-out losses incurred earlier this year only served to rub salt into Armagh's wounds.McGeeney requires no reminding that 2024 will carry big challenges for his side within the confines of their own province never mind elsewhere yet he is resolved to transform his team's fortunes if he can.As the longest-serving manager in either football of hurling in the entire country, McGeeney has acquired respect and admiration for his commitment.But with fans focused strongly on the capture of silverware, the next number of months will see McGeeney put his shoulder to the wheel more forcibly as he bids to revive the Orchard County's fortunes.
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/10/01/news/conleith_gilligan_joins_armagh_backroom_team-3661066/
CONLEITH Gilligan has been added to the Armagh backroom team, The Irish News understands.
The former Derry forward will join Kieran McGeeney's coaching ticket for the manager's tenth season in charge of his native county.
Gilligan will share coaching duties with Ciaran McKeever and Kieran Donaghy after the Kerry man having confirmed last week that he is staying for a fourth season.
Under Mickey Moran, the Ballinderry man and Richie Thornton coached Kilcoo as they guided the Down side to a first ever All-Ireland club title in 2021/22, an achievement Gilligan had managed as a player twenty years earlier.
When Moran stepped down after that final, the coaching duo – who had previously taken Coalisland to a Tyrone final together – took up the reins, retaining the Down title but losing a gripping Ulster final to Glen last winter.
They then stepped down and Gilligan headed for Edendork, whose hopes of a dark horse success in the Tyrone championship were dashed by a stoppage time Lee Brennan winner for Trillick on Saturday.
Having secured Division One status with a strong finish to the season, they had knocked last year's finalists Carrickmore out in the first round last weekend.
It's unclear at this stage whether Gilligan will remain in charge of the club next season.
Despite only having only retired from club football in 2018, his coaching career goes back to 2010 when he helped Naomh Conaill to a Donegal title. His first-hand experience of Armagh club football was a spell with Maghery in 2015.
Meanwhile, Louth have called a county committee meeting for Monday night at which they are expected to appoint former Dublin star Ger Brennan as their new manager.
Ex-Down boss James McCartan and Niall Moyna are speculated to be joining him as part of the setup.
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 17, 2023, 07:35:55 PMQuote from: restorepride on August 17, 2023, 03:50:17 PMQuote from: 5times5times on August 16, 2023, 10:10:28 AMIdeal team next year in the 1% chance we've everyone available and no injuries?
Rafferty
McKay Forker C'ONeill
McCabe McCambridge Burns
Mackin Crealey
Duffy O'ONeill Grugan
Turbitt R'ONeill Murnin
Subs
Soupy
Kelly
Cummiskey
McPartlan
Burns
Morgan
McQuillan
C Mackin
Kieran
Conaty
Any update on Rafferty's injury?
Listened to him on the sideline eye podcast. He seems hopeful he will be back for next season
The way McParland has played this year in club championship dont think he can be overlooked.
Quote from: dec on October 02, 2023, 01:48:14 PMhttps://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/10/01/news/conleith_gilligan_joins_armagh_backroom_team-3661066/
CONLEITH Gilligan has been added to the Armagh backroom team, The Irish News understands.
The former Derry forward will join Kieran McGeeney's coaching ticket for the manager's tenth season in charge of his native county.
Gilligan will share coaching duties with Ciaran McKeever and Kieran Donaghy after the Kerry man having confirmed last week that he is staying for a fourth season.
Under Mickey Moran, the Ballinderry man and Richie Thornton coached Kilcoo as they guided the Down side to a first ever All-Ireland club title in 2021/22, an achievement Gilligan had managed as a player twenty years earlier.
When Moran stepped down after that final, the coaching duo – who had previously taken Coalisland to a Tyrone final together – took up the reins, retaining the Down title but losing a gripping Ulster final to Glen last winter.
They then stepped down and Gilligan headed for Edendork, whose hopes of a dark horse success in the Tyrone championship were dashed by a stoppage time Lee Brennan winner for Trillick on Saturday.
Having secured Division One status with a strong finish to the season, they had knocked last year's finalists Carrickmore out in the first round last weekend.
It's unclear at this stage whether Gilligan will remain in charge of the club next season.
Despite only having only retired from club football in 2018, his coaching career goes back to 2010 when he helped Naomh Conaill to a Donegal title. His first-hand experience of Armagh club football was a spell with Maghery in 2015.
Meanwhile, Louth have called a county committee meeting for Monday night at which they are expected to appoint former Dublin star Ger Brennan as their new manager.
Ex-Down boss James McCartan and Niall Moyna are speculated to be joining him as part of the setup.
How much is this back room team actually costing, that seems an even more ridiculous amount of people than most ridiculously over populated back room teams elsewhere.
Jarly og not playing the year
https://www.gaeliclife.com/counties/jarly-og-burns-steps-away-from-armagh-squad/ (https://www.gaeliclife.com/counties/jarly-og-burns-steps-away-from-armagh-squad/)
The line that he wants to concentrate on club football is a strange one. Cannot commit due to other life pressures is all well and good... but this has a hint of discontent about it.
Going by how things ended last season, I dont think he is necessarily a guaranteed starter. A miss nonetheless.
Pity. Best of luck to him
It's a blow to Armagh. Or at least it was when Armagh tried to occasionally counter attack at speed.
Where this could get interesting though is if it turns out that Jarly is not an outlier, but reflective of a spirit within the camp.
He knows. Armagh have peaked. If he thought there was a serious chance of winning an USFC he'd have stayed.
Quote from: trailer on October 05, 2023, 10:06:57 AMHe knows. Armagh have peaked. If he thought there was a serious chance of winning an USFC he'd have stayed.
Yes... peaked... While having a stronger panel this year than last.. Explain that one? ???
Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2023, 09:50:23 AMIt's a blow to Armagh. Or at least it was when Armagh tried to occasionally counter attack at speed.
Where this could get interesting though is if it turns out that Jarly is not an outlier, but reflective of a spirit within the camp.
Doubt it. Truth be told it's not a major loss.
Quote from: general_lee on October 07, 2023, 11:13:48 AMQuote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2023, 09:50:23 AMIt's a blow to Armagh. Or at least it was when Armagh tried to occasionally counter attack at speed.
Where this could get interesting though is if it turns out that Jarly is not an outlier, but reflective of a spirit within the camp.
Doubt it. Truth be told it's not a major loss.
He was class last year against Donegal in the league but apart from that didn't have his best year. Spends too much time on the ground looking frees for my liking.
Quote from: 5times5times on October 05, 2023, 10:17:20 AMQuote from: trailer on October 05, 2023, 10:06:57 AMHe knows. Armagh have peaked. If he thought there was a serious chance of winning an USFC he'd have stayed.
Yes... peaked... While having a stronger panel this year than last.. Explain that one? ???
Armagh's closest competitor Derry also will have a stronger squad and a stronger managerial set up so they most likely won't win Ulster next year.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2023, 12:01:03 PMQuote from: general_lee on October 07, 2023, 11:13:48 AMQuote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2023, 09:50:23 AMIt's a blow to Armagh. Or at least it was when Armagh tried to occasionally counter attack at speed.
Where this could get interesting though is if it turns out that Jarly is not an outlier, but reflective of a spirit within the camp.
Doubt it. Truth be told it's not a major loss.
He was class last year against Donegal in the league but apart from that didn't have his best year. Spends too much time on the ground looking frees for my liking.
He's a good player but not what you'd call irreplaceable.
Quote from: general_lee on October 07, 2023, 03:18:58 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2023, 12:01:03 PMQuote from: general_lee on October 07, 2023, 11:13:48 AMQuote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2023, 09:50:23 AMIt's a blow to Armagh. Or at least it was when Armagh tried to occasionally counter attack at speed.
Where this could get interesting though is if it turns out that Jarly is not an outlier, but reflective of a spirit within the camp.
Doubt it. Truth be told it's not a major loss.
He was class last year against Donegal in the league but apart from that didn't have his best year. Spends too much time on the ground looking frees for my liking.
He's a good player but not what you'd call irreplaceable.
TK, Oisin O'Neill and Ciaron O'Hanlon will all be back so plenty of talent to be added
Quote from: NormPeterson on October 07, 2023, 03:01:41 PMQuote from: 5times5times on October 05, 2023, 10:17:20 AMQuote from: trailer on October 05, 2023, 10:06:57 AMHe knows. Armagh have peaked. If he thought there was a serious chance of winning an USFC he'd have stayed.
Yes... peaked... While having a stronger panel this year than last.. Explain that one? ???
Armagh's closest competitor Derry also will have a stronger squad and a stronger managerial set up so they most likely won't win Ulster next year.
I would suggest that Tyrone will be closer this year. Add Donegal also.
Quote from: ck on October 07, 2023, 08:41:03 PMQuote from: NormPeterson on October 07, 2023, 03:01:41 PMQuote from: 5times5times on October 05, 2023, 10:17:20 AMQuote from: trailer on October 05, 2023, 10:06:57 AMHe knows. Armagh have peaked. If he thought there was a serious chance of winning an USFC he'd have stayed.
Yes... peaked... While having a stronger panel this year than last.. Explain that one? ???
Armagh's closest competitor Derry also will have a stronger squad and a stronger managerial set up so they most likely won't win Ulster next year.
I would suggest that Tyrone will be closer this year. Add Donegal also.
Yeah neither of them will be as bad as they were last year. Down will be better as well with those U20's having another year behind them.
For what it's worth, from the outside looking in to Armagh, Jarly Og was one of the better players.
Was one of the major reasons Armagh were so close to Derry in the Ulster final imo.
Very athletic and can run at a defence.
I don't know enough about the wider armagh panel, but I'd consider him a loss.
Jarly Og is definitely a loss, but not one that is irreplaceable, there are several who I think can seize the opportunity and step up next year. Hopefully we will see Jarly in an Armagh jersey again in the future.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 10, 2023, 10:42:49 AMFor what it's worth, from the outside looking in to Armagh, Jarly Og was one of the better players.
Was one of the major reasons Armagh were so close to Derry in the Ulster final imo.
Very athletic and can run at a defence.
I don't know enough about the wider armagh panel, but I'd consider him a loss.
he's a loss alright although a lot of the time he runs at a defence he runs down blind alleys and loses the ball or runs into contact and loses the ball
Burns is a loss. Maybe not a definite starter, but his versatility meant he would be involved more often than not. Bit of a sense that we were still waiting to see the best from him.
Started out for Armagh at midfield, but drifted through a lot of games and eventually lost his place there.
The move to the wing was inspired and he was very effective in 2022. Armagh got a lot of joy from his trademark charge down the left followed by a cut inside to take on a shot with his right. Or to win a free, which he was quite good at.
But opponents seemed to have that all figured out by 2023, and he was left charging down a lot of dead ends. Refs weren't as charitable to him either.
Maybe he figured now was a good time to step away and reset. Still young enough to come back and earn a starting place somewhere.
Could be worse, just after watching Armagh v Tyrone 1984, That was a very poor Armagh Team. Big Midfielder Fran McMahon the only stand out for Armagh. Frank McGuigan was unreal that day, as was Eugene McKenna.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 10:40:56 PMCould be worse, just after watching Armagh v Tyrone 1984, That was a very poor Armagh Team. Big Midfielder Fran McMahon the only stand out for Armagh. Frank McGuigan was unreal that day, as was Eugene McKenna.
Fran was a fine player
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2020/09/19/news/made-in-culloville-the-life-and-times-of-chicago-based-former-armagh-ulster-and-ireland-star-fran-mcmahon-2071467/
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 11:00:09 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 10:40:56 PMCould be worse, just after watching Armagh v Tyrone 1984, That was a very poor Armagh Team. Big Midfielder Fran McMahon the only stand out for Armagh. Frank McGuigan was unreal that day, as was Eugene McKenna.
Fran was a fine player
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2020/09/19/news/made-in-culloville-the-life-and-times-of-chicago-based-former-armagh-ulster-and-ireland-star-fran-mcmahon-2071467/
a gentleman also