Tyrone Club Football and Hurling

[trileacman]

Catch 22, you dump Dromore out and it'll be war. If you don't then you are in clear violation of the rule book and will allow any team in future to question any bans or suspensions they incur due to a technical infringement of the rules. If this was a case for the boys up in Croker there only be one winner, that would be the rulebook.

[The Beard]

Unfortunately this is going to rumble on and extend championship further with appeal and counter appeal either way. They should just take it all the way to croker park straight away and get a final decision asap so championship isn't held up while we go through Tyrone FCC, ulster etc etc. think it would be incredibly harsh on dromore as Ardboe were beat fair and square on the day but if it goes to croke park, I can't see them ignoring the rule book.....maybe replay would be fairest option?

[skeog]

mr 99 rule book disclosure if correct means no rules broken so championship will continue

[nrico2006]

Regarding the info you posted below. In
This case level refers to club level, county level or college level. So if the player was suspended then he did infact play illegally even if his suspension happened at minor level.
Our hurlers were caught out on a similar offense last year. The penalty is forfeiture of game without award to the opposing team, unless of course Ardboe objected which would then mean Ardboe would be reinstated.

A bit of spare time at work today so I thought I would check out the ruling in the official guide:

Category I
Being ordered off on foot of a second Cautionable
Infraction.
Penalty:
(i) Fixed Penalty: Debarment from playing for
the remainder of the Game, to include any
extra-time;
(ii) Fixed Penalty on Repeat Infraction: 2 weeks
Suspension in the same Code and at the same
Level.

Looks like Dromore are safe enough as suspension is to be served in the same code at the same level (which would be minors).  Story has it that its an Omagh supporting solicitor who tipped off Ardboe, appears as if he will have egg on his face, but its nice to see that Omagh and Ardboe are back on talking terms LOL!

On a more serious note, really looking forward to the 2 big games this weekend, who do we all think will get through?  There wont be much in either game.

The rulebook would need to have a clear and explicit definition of what 'level' actually means.  I would have imagined that it was always to differentiate between Club and County level, but if it for example means the difference between the age groups then Dromore should be fine.

The hurler situation was completely different as the fella in question was sent-off in a hurling game being played at adult club level and then lined out for the next game for the same team.

[blackball]

I have heard of being suspended for your club and still being able to play county football that has happened a few times in recent memory, but there is no way a suspension doesn't carry over through age groups, it irrelevant if its two yellows or a straight red. If dromore minors had have put out of the campionship and that was young sluddens last year of minors then he wouldnt have to serve any kind of suspension! that cant be right. Looks like the county board has made another huge mistake to add to the already long list!

[inthesquare]

Or ardboe could do the decent thing and withdraw the appeal. Look at the dubs. Didn appeal a 16man mayo team in the dying mins of a 3point game. Where ardboe well beatin 1-15 to 0-9. Are appealing a minor that was on the pitch for no more than 5mins when the game was well beyond ardboe.  and touched ball no more than 2 or 3 times. He had no real bearing on the game. Could see through it if the teams had been point for point the entire game and sludden came on and got a goal or sumfin.

[blackball]

Thats not the point it doesnt matter how many points are in it, Ardboe could withdraw the appeal but whats to stop omagh appealing if they are beat by dromore in the semi final or Carrickmore appealing if they are beat in the final or Crossmaglen sppealing if Dromore beat them in Ulster(not likely) No matter what happens from now on Dromore still played an illeagal player in this years championship! If the lad made no real differnce why did they bother bringing him on? if this had been the other way around and Ardboe beat dromore with an illegal player there would not even have been an argument they would have been kicked out of the championship by now.

[LeoMc]

Or ardboe could do the decent thing and withdraw the appeal. Look at the dubs. Didn appeal a 16man mayo team in the dying mins of a 3point game. Where ardboe well beatin 1-15 to 0-9. Are appealing a minor that was on the pitch for no more than 5mins when the game was well beyond ardboe.  and touched ball no more than 2 or 3 times. He had no real bearing on the game. Could see through it if the teams had been point for point the entire game and sludden came on and got a goal or sumfin.

By withdrawing their appeal all Ardboe do is rule themselves out of taking advantage of a potential Dromore suspension.

Is this not a bit of a Pandoras box?
Could another team that Dromore meet at a later stage use the infringement (if indeed there is an infringement) as a basis of an appeal on the basis that Dromore should not be there?

As for the second bit in bold I have often been on the field for 60 minutes and had no real bearing on the game  and the shape I am now I couldn't influence an u-16 ladies match. It would still be wrong for me to play for them though.

Having said all that it would be very unfair to see Dromore dumped out (and I would not be their biggest fan*) when they were acting in good faith on a County board clarification.

*Dromore would not be the most popular team in the County, a part of that would be their success (Carrickmore and Errigal would have been viewed the same way a decade ago) but Omagh manage to be disliked without the baggage of success. The actions of one of their members in this saga may go some way to explaining that.

[LeoMc]

http://www.ulsterherald.com/2012/09/06/tyrone-gaa-to-investigate-dromore-player-eligibility/

Seems to be some confusing signs over the last 24 hours as to wherever Sludden was actually eligible to come on as a sub. If it turns out that Dromore played him on the basis of a formal letter/email from a county board official who misinterpreted the rule book, the excrement is going to hit the blower.

If they have a letter/email from county board official then they are in the clear. They cannot be blamed for a county board mistake.

If they have no official notification then they are fooked

Have they actually been officially excluded or is it still under investigation?

I'm not so certain - I can't think of such an incident in the GAA itself in recent times, but I remember a decade ago in ladies football Monaghan Harps had their Ulster senior club title stripped off them and awarded to Carrickmore (whom they beat in the final) after one of their players was found ineligible, not through the club's fault but because the Monaghan registrar failed to get the player registration to the national registrar in Croke Park in time and in ladies football at least, you're not an eligible player for a team until it is processed by the national registrar. Since the rule that is alleged to be breached is not a county bye-law but in the official guide, and the county board may or may not be in a position to give an unequivocal guarantee even if they formally notified the club, especially due to the implications of the Ulster & All-Ireland club championships. This is a kind of unknown territory, any recent examples elsewhere might help clear this up.

How did the issue with Ballinderry playing an u-14 player in the UMFCC (St Pauls tournament) play out?

[LeoMc]

Thats not the point it doesnt matter how many points are in it, Ardboe could withdraw the appeal but whats to stop omagh appealing if they are beat by dromore in the semi final or Carrickmore appealing if they are beat in the final or Crossmaglen sppealing if Dromore beat them in Ulster(not likely) No matter what happens from now on Dromore still played an illeagal player in this years championship! If the lad made no real differnce why did they bother bringing him on? if this had been the other way around and Ardboe beat dromore with an illegal player there would not even have been an argument they would have been kicked out of the championship by now.

I will assume that as a County Minor he was ineligible for the Reserve championship so they were letting him dip his toes, so to speak, in a safe environment.

[Hashtag]

In fairness if Dromore continue in the championship I will fully expect to see Joseph McMahon line out for Omagh this weekend against Errigal (Firsts).

[saffron sam2]

http://www.ulsterherald.com/2012/09/06/tyrone-gaa-to-investigate-dromore-player-eligibility/

Seems to be some confusing signs over the last 24 hours as to wherever Sludden was actually eligible to come on as a sub. If it turns out that Dromore played him on the basis of a formal letter/email from a county board official who misinterpreted the rule book, the excrement is going to hit the blower.

If they have a letter/email from county board official then they are in the clear. They cannot be blamed for a county board mistake.

If they have no official notification then they are fooked

Have they actually been officially excluded or is it still under investigation?

I'm not so certain - I can't think of such an incident in the GAA itself in recent times, but I remember a decade ago in ladies football Monaghan Harps had their Ulster senior club title stripped off them and awarded to Carrickmore (whom they beat in the final) after one of their players was found ineligible, not through the club's fault but because the Monaghan registrar failed to get the player registration to the national registrar in Croke Park in time and in ladies football at least, you're not an eligible player for a team until it is processed by the national registrar. Since the rule that is alleged to be breached is not a county bye-law but in the official guide, and the county board may or may not be in a position to give an unequivocal guarantee even if they formally notified the club, especially due to the implications of the Ulster & All-Ireland club championships. This is a kind of unknown territory, any recent examples elsewhere might help clear this up.

How did the issue with Ballinderry playing an u-14 player in the UMFCC (St Pauls tournament) play out?

Not an officially sanctioned tournament I think.

[LeoMc]

Regarding the info you posted below. In
This case level refers to club level, county level or college level. So if the player was suspended then he did infact play illegally even if his suspension happened at minor level.
Our hurlers were caught out on a similar offense last year. The penalty is forfeiture of game without award to the opposing team, unless of course Ardboe objected which would then mean Ardboe would be reinstated.

A bit of spare time at work today so I thought I would check out the ruling in the official guide:

Category I
Being ordered off on foot of a second Cautionable
Infraction.
Penalty:
(i) Fixed Penalty: Debarment from playing for
the remainder of the Game, to include any
extra-time;
(ii) Fixed Penalty on Repeat Infraction: 2 weeks
Suspension in the same Code and at the same
Level.

Looks like Dromore are safe enough as suspension is to be served in the same code at the same level (which would be minors).  Story has it that its an Omagh supporting solicitor who tipped off Ardboe, appears as if he will have egg on his face, but its nice to see that Omagh and Ardboe are back on talking terms LOL!

On a more serious note, really looking forward to the 2 big games this weekend, who do we all think will get through?  There wont be much in either game.

The rulebook would need to have a clear and explicit definition of what 'level' actually means.  I would have imagined that it was always to differentiate between Club and County level, but if it for example means the difference between the age groups then Dromore should be fine.

The hurler situation was completely different as the fella in question was sent-off in a hurling game being played at adult club level and then lined out for the next game for the same team.

Rule 7.5:
Suspensions
Interpretation of Terms
(a) For the purpose of interpretation of Suspensions and in Rule generally:
(1) "Level" shall mean the representative level at which the Suspension concerned was incurred e.g. Inter-Provincial, Inter-County, Club, Third-Level, Schools etc. Where a Team of one Level is playing a Game or Competition at another Level, e.g. Third-Level College v. County, a Level-specific Suspension incurred by a Player shall apply at
the Level of the Team he was playing with on the occasion of the Infraction.
(2) "Code" shall mean either Football or Hurling.
Handball or Rounders shall likewise be specific Codes.

In my opinion these definitions should be at the start of the Disciplinary section (Section 7), not at Point 5 whereby a decision has already been made following a misinterpretation of the rule without reading the rules in full.

In terms of the options available to the CCC, a loose interpretation of the action rule would suggest Dromore should be out of the Championship, but another interpretation could be that the game is replayed as it has a get out clause of 'depending on the circumstances'. So if a letter/advice was obtained @ County board level to say the player was eligible I expect this to be a favourable circumstance for Dromore and the game to be replayed. Either way, I can see this bouncing up the chain for a couple of weeks yet.

About 20s ahead of me.
I did the same as you and looked up the rules and was adding this segment to the main board and had just come back in to add the rule here.

[inthesquare]

But can dromore really be kicked out for a county board members mistake if they had obtained the go ahead is what I would like to know. And if they are kicked out and did have consent from a member of the board then what actions are takin against that board member cause surely he should be penalised in some way too if dromore are. However a replay would probably be the fairest outcome if both clubs should agree

[EC Unique]

Have they been officially excluded yet?