[Merged] Religion topic Bishop Eamon reaffirms Catholic teaching & Cinemas refusing to show ad featu

[J70]

Sheer bigoted intolerance against Christians,now the most persecuted group in society in terms of denial of rights

I'd have no particular problem with the advert, but there's no persecution here and I can't see any rights being denied.

Correct. An atheist spokesperson on the news said that this could open the door for other religions to advertise. And that was the height of his argument! I wouldn't mind watching an advert for Druids, as long as it included naked dancing ladies.

If that was his argument, then its not an argument at all, unless a ban exists on religious advertising, which I seriously doubt.

They should be free to buy advertising space like anyone else. And those selling such space should be free to accept and refuse their custom, as long as they're not singling out certain faiths for no good reason.

[muppet]

I most certainly do not back jihadists,but as was the case with Ashers,I would prioritise my Christian beliefs (which are mainstream and not fundamentalist) over man made laws when there is a conflict between the two

The Bible was written by man.

Surely you are not arguing against that?

As for mainstream, does a comprehensive referendum result not relegate your views to the fringes?

[T Fearon]

Smelmoth wise up.I cannot think of too many circumstances where the law of the land contradicts religious belief,bar something like the circumstances of Ashers case.That is not anarchy.

[finbar o tool]

The Catholic Church needs "a reality check" in the wake of the same-sex marriage referendum and needs to ask if it has drifted away from young people, Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin has said.
"I think really that the church needs to do a reality check, a reality check right across the board, to look at the things it's doing well, to look at the areas where we really have to start and say, 'Look, have we drifted away completely from young people?' " he told RTÉ News.
He said the referendum result was "an overwhelming vote in one direction" and he appreciated how gay men and lesbian women felt after the endorsement of same-sex marriage - "that they feel this is something which is enriching the way they live", he said.
"I think it's a social revolution... It's a social revolution that didn't begin today," he said. "It's a social revolution that's been going on, and perhaps in the church people have not been as clear in understanding what that involved.
"It's very clear that if this referendum is an affirmation of the views of young people, then the church has a huge task in front of it to find the language to be able to talk to and to get its message across to young people, not just on this issue, but in general."
Dr Martin said it was important that the church must not move into denial of the realities. "We won't begin again with a sense of renewal by simply denying," he said.
When he met Pope Benedict after he became archbishop, the pope asked him where were the points of contact between the Catholic Church and the places where the future of Irish culture was being formed, he said.
"And that's a question the church has to ask itself here in Ireland," Dr Martin said.
'Big challenge'
"Most of these young people who voted Yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years," he said. "There's a big challenge there to see how we get across the message of the church...We need to sit down and say 'are we reaching out at all to young people?' ... We're becoming a church of the like-minded, and a sort of a safe space for the like-minded," he said.
"That doesn't mean that we renounce our teaching on fundamental values on marriage and the family. Nor does it mean that we dig into the trenches.
"We need to find...a new language which is fundamentally ours, that speaks to, is understood and becomes appreciated by others."
Dr Martin added that "we tend to think in black and white but most of us live in the area of grey, and if the church has a harsh teaching, it seems to be condemning those who are not in line with it.
"But all of us live in the grey area. All of us fail. All of us are intolerant. All of us make mistakes. All of us sin and all of us pick ourselves up again with the help of that institution which should be there to do that.
"The church's teaching, if it isn't expressed in terms of love - then it's got it wrong," he said.

[easytiger95]

The Catholic Church needs "a reality check" in the wake of the same-sex marriage referendum and needs to ask if it has drifted away from young people, Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin has said.
"I think really that the church needs to do a reality check, a reality check right across the board, to look at the things it's doing well, to look at the areas where we really have to start and say, 'Look, have we drifted away completely from young people?' " he told RTÉ News.
He said the referendum result was "an overwhelming vote in one direction" and he appreciated how gay men and lesbian women felt after the endorsement of same-sex marriage - "that they feel this is something which is enriching the way they live", he said.
"I think it's a social revolution... It's a social revolution that didn't begin today," he said. "It's a social revolution that's been going on, and perhaps in the church people have not been as clear in understanding what that involved.
"It's very clear that if this referendum is an affirmation of the views of young people, then the church has a huge task in front of it to find the language to be able to talk to and to get its message across to young people, not just on this issue, but in general."
Dr Martin said it was important that the church must not move into denial of the realities. "We won't begin again with a sense of renewal by simply denying," he said.
When he met Pope Benedict after he became archbishop, the pope asked him where were the points of contact between the Catholic Church and the places where the future of Irish culture was being formed, he said.
"And that's a question the church has to ask itself here in Ireland," Dr Martin said.
'Big challenge'
"Most of these young people who voted Yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years," he said. "There's a big challenge there to see how we get across the message of the church...We need to sit down and say 'are we reaching out at all to young people?' ... We're becoming a church of the like-minded, and a sort of a safe space for the like-minded," he said.
"That doesn't mean that we renounce our teaching on fundamental values on marriage and the family. Nor does it mean that we dig into the trenches.
"We need to find...a new language which is fundamentally ours, that speaks to, is understood and becomes appreciated by others."
Dr Martin added that "we tend to think in black and white but most of us live in the area of grey, and if the church has a harsh teaching, it seems to be condemning those who are not in line with it.
"But all of us live in the grey area. All of us fail. All of us are intolerant. All of us make mistakes. All of us sin and all of us pick ourselves up again with the help of that institution which should be there to do that.
"The church's teaching, if it isn't expressed in terms of love - then it's got it wrong," he said.

Could someone print this up and nail it on Fearon's door?

[outinfront]

Sheer bigoted intolerance against Christians,now the most persecuted group in society in terms of denial of rights

And the loyalists, don't forget them

[johnneycool]

Two points,

1) I don't think the CoE advert should have been banned, but at the same time the Christians couldn't complain if Dawkins and other atheists had an ad on display or even the Wahhabi strain of Islam decided to throw up an ad in a Cinema.

2) Just how desperate are the CoE to get bums back on pews when their resorting to mainstream advertising?

[gallsman]

Lets keep it on point lads...

J70... I think you are well aware your analogy is false. Prehaps we could discuss the point and not have us wading through the fallacies of an irrelevant analogy.

You called it discriminatory, a few of us reacted to that. We're very much on point and awaiting an explanation of how it is so.

[Clov]

In the broadest sense it is discriminatory, in that it treats religious and political advertising as different from non-religious and political advertising. But that's not really the issue. The important point is whether Cinemas are justified in doing so.

Personally i think they are justified. Religious types don't like the 'thin edge of the wedge' argument as it brackets them with extremists like those responsible for the Paris attacks. But it seems to me that it is the same vacation of moral reasoning in preference for blindly following doctrine, which leads those to kill in the name of religion and which also leads others to discriminate against gays, or propagate the spread of preventable diseases by condemning contraception ("my religion forbids it").

[gallsman]

The cinema/advertising chain has claimed, whether correctly or not, (as a few subsequent actions look dubious), that it has a clear policy of not allowing any political or religious advertising. If anything, it's the opposite of discrimination as they're treating this group like they would any other religious group.

I'm still waiting to hear what rights Tony thinks have been trampled on.

[Clov]

The cinema/advertising chain has claimed, whether correctly or not, (as a few subsequent actions look dubious), that it has a clear policy of not allowing any political or religious advertising. If anything, it's the opposite of discrimination as they're treating this group like they would any other religious group.

I'm still waiting to hear what rights Tony thinks have been trampled on.

I think there is some confusion here between 2 levels of discrimination which is being exploited (or missed) by those with a religious agenda.

The particular act of banning this advert is not discriminatory vis-a-vis the wider policy of a ban on all religious and political advertising (with the proviso of course that that policy is fairly applied). The broad policy on the other hand is discriminatory - it treats religious and political adverts differently from other adverts. This discrimination, imo, is justified, whereas a ban on this particular advert without a wider ban on all religious/political adverts would not have been justified.

[T Fearon]

The right of every Christian not to be treated like a sub human,because our faith is deemed offensive(??).Diarmuid Martin is wrong if he believes God's love and compassion is unconditional,though I don't see that he is advocating gay marriage,but the emphasis on God's love is dangerous without the qualification that this is strictly conditional upon turning away from sin.

[Milltown Row2]

The right of every Christian not to be treated like a sub human,because our faith is deemed offensive(??).Diarmuid Martin is wrong if he believes God's love and compassion is unconditional,though I don't see that he is advocating gay marriage,but the emphasis on God's love is dangerous without the qualification that this is strictly conditional upon turning away from sin.

Do you still sin Tony??

[Maguire01]

The right of every Christian not to be treated like a sub human,because our faith is deemed offensive(??).

How are you treated as sub human for being a Christian? Examples, rather than soundbites.

[AhNowRef]

Fearon, just admit you're gay and let that be an end to it !!