Man Utd Thread:

[sid waddell]

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.

I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

[GJL]

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.

I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

Souness demonstrated this type of thinking yesterday leading to a skysports appology. He probably had a valid point but would be better keeping it to himself.

[imtommygunn]

Pogba is a huge footballing talent who only seems to play when he can be arsed. He is an infuriating player so deserves plenty of abuse.

I don't support his team(s) so don't care that much. The comparison that springs to mind for me is Aidan McGeady. Ah McGeady has it he's going to do something great here. Nope. Repeat at infinitum. I know it's a lesser scale of ability but it's infuriating for a fan of his team to watch. Stephen Ireland was on that scale too. Those kind of players do my head in and do plenty of peoples heads in too.

[J70]

The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.

Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media

I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

Possibly Sid however the difference is Bale delivers on the pitch (when he does get on).

Being on Spain also took some attention off him.

Pogba doesnt deliver on the pitch (or hasnt any time I have seen him in the last few years).

Off the pitch his social media presence, the brands he promotes - you have to deliver if you are going to do that.

Dont remember Bale having any social media presence as such

Bale hasn't delivered very much on the pitch since 2016 with the notable exception of the Champions League final in 2018 - but that was just one kick of a ball, a great one admittedly (his second goal was a goalkeeping howler which should have been stopped 100 times out of 100)

He was happy to pose with a flag which said "Wales, Golf, Madrid, in that order"

That's far more unprofessional than anything Pogba did

Pogba is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and showed it at the 2018 World Cup

He made a disastrous career move to a club which has been poison for the last seven years and where nobody seems to know what they're doing

Difficult to shine in that atmosphere

I do think there's an element of certain old school pundits taking a particular dislike to him because they're automatically suspicious of a confident young black man from the Paris banlieues and automatically think he's of bad character

The likes of Souness and Giles look at Pogba and just think to themselves "trouble", because they can't identify with him

But that's not the reality

In reality Pogba is no different in character to most other professional footballers, he just needs somebody to bring the best out of his talents and he hasn't had that at Manchester United, I keep saying it but if they had a proper manager like Pochettino I'd wager they'd get a lot more out of Pogba

Haven't heard much of Souness, but I do listen to Giles quite regularly on Eamon Dunphy's podcast.

They were actually only talking about Pogba last week, and from what I remember, Giles was quite complementary about him, particularly ability-wise, but putting the problem down to United's tactics and the way he was being used, with United not playing to his strengths. Basically, he doesn't fit the team.

[BennyCake]

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.

I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

Are you Canadian?

Fans are pissed off at Pogba's shit attitude and poor performances, that's been going on for 3 seasons. He's on astronomical wages and does feck all to justify them.  Feck all to do with race.

[Bronco]

Seems Taylor and the wobbler are either unwilling or unable to address my posts asking them to explain what they mean.

Quite telling...

[Taylor]

Seems Taylor and the wobbler are either unwilling or unable to address my posts asking them to explain what they mean.

Quite telling...

Aye - seems telling.

On social media presence - the ballsing around - the haircuts - promoting brands - dancing etc etc when his performances are so shit.

Bennycake put it well.

Happy now?

[Bronco]

Ballsing around? No idea what this means

Haircuts and dancing - seriously? Lol. Wise up man.

[thewobbler]

Seems Taylor and the wobbler are either unwilling or unable to address my posts asking them to explain what they mean.

Quite telling...

Quite telling? Lad I'm working.

Paul Pogba is a most commercial footballer. The epitome of "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it". His focus is on his brand, not his career. His inability to maintain a consistent performance level means he can't currently attract a better brand (club) to partner with. Which is why the transfer tittle tattle has dried up. He will only go somewhere if it makes him more marketable. So he has largely given up, and instead of being inconsistent, he's now unbothered.

Funnily enough I would at least praise him for having focus on something. Martial is even lazier. Too much money too young for that one.

[Taylor]

Ballsing around? No idea what this means

Haircuts and dancing - seriously? Lol. Wise up man.

LOL 

Quite telling.

[Bronco]

Jesus. More than a whiff of Big Ron vibes off this one.

Seems Taylor and the wobbler are either unwilling or unable to address my posts asking them to explain what they mean.

Quite telling...

Quite telling? Lad I'm working.

Paul Pogba is a most commercial footballer. The epitome of "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it". His focus is on his brand, not his career. His inability to maintain a consistent performance level means he can't currently attract a better brand (club) to partner with. Which is why the transfer tittle tattle has dried up. He will only go somewhere if it makes him more marketable. So he has largely given up, and instead of being inconsistent, he's now unbothered.

Funnily enough I would at least praise him for having focus on something. Martial is even lazier. Too much money too young for that one.

[sid waddell]

Haven't heard much of Souness, but I do listen to Giles quite regularly on Eamon Dunphy's podcast.

They were actually only talking about Pogba last week, and from what I remember, Giles was quite complementary about him, particularly ability-wise, but putting the problem down to United's tactics and the way he was being used, with United not playing to his strengths. Basically, he doesn't fit the team.

The impression I got from Giles a couple of years ago was that he thought Pogba was trouble

Perhaps the Giles-endorsed Labour TD Aodhan O'Riordain has had a word in his ear since

Personally I think it's nonsense to say Pogba doesn't fit a team

He's the guy you build your team around

But he has also shown he can sacrifice himself for the benefit of the team as he did when France won the World Cup, he played quite a defensive role if I remember rightly and it was only in the final, when France already had the upper hand, that he let loose

All comes back to the lack of good management on the football side of things at Manchester United

Quality managers know how to exploit quality players, Solsklaer is a place holder who they don't have the guts to move on

Mourinho is still an above average coach but he was poison personality wise at United, and at the height of his paranoia

[thewobbler]

Jesus. More than a whiff of Big Ron vibes off this one.

Seems Taylor and the wobbler are either unwilling or unable to address my posts asking them to explain what they mean.

Quite telling...

Quite telling? Lad I'm working.

Paul Pogba is a most commercial footballer. The epitome of "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it". His focus is on his brand, not his career. His inability to maintain a consistent performance level means he can't currently attract a better brand (club) to partner with. Which is why the transfer tittle tattle has dried up. He will only go somewhere if it makes him more marketable. So he has largely given up, and instead of being inconsistent, he's now unbothered.

Funnily enough I would at least praise him for having focus on something. Martial is even lazier. Too much money too young for that one.

It smacks of McCarthyism when you can't criticise players for fear of being branded a racist.

Luke Shaw is a key member of the lazy camp too. But a player of his limited technique and versatility maxed out in life in getting a long term Man Utd contract. Even if he gave a Henderson-style determination to proceedings he'd still be an average left back.

Whereas Martial and Pogba both have the physical and technical attributes to rank among the best players in the world. What's stopping them isn't a series of managers, it is themselves.

[J70]

Haven't heard much of Souness, but I do listen to Giles quite regularly on Eamon Dunphy's podcast.

They were actually only talking about Pogba last week, and from what I remember, Giles was quite complementary about him, particularly ability-wise, but putting the problem down to United's tactics and the way he was being used, with United not playing to his strengths. Basically, he doesn't fit the team.

The impression I got from Giles a couple of years ago was that he thought Pogba was trouble

Perhaps the Giles-endorsed Labour TD Aodhan O'Riordain has had a word in his ear since

Personally I think it's nonsense to say Pogba doesn't fit a team

He's the guy you build your team around

But he has also shown he can sacrifice himself for the benefit of the team as he did when France won the World Cup, he played quite a defensive role if I remember rightly and it was only in the final, when France already had the upper hand, that he let loose

All comes back to the lack of good management on the football side of things at Manchester United

Quality managers know how to exploit quality players, Solsklaer is a place holder who they don't have the guts to move on

Mourinho is still an above average coach but he was poison personality wise at United, and at the height of his paranoia

But that was his point. United haven't built their team around him. They're not using him correctly or giving him a role to get the best out of him. Which, given their management and player recruitment issues in the past five or six years, is not surprising.

Anyway, I'm not a United expert. There's plenty on here know a hell of lot more about the situation. Was just relaying my impression of what Giles was saying.

[Bronco]

Essentially you believe the overweight consistently awful white English left-back "maxed out in life" while the goalscoring black man is lazy and was given too much money too young.

Gotcha Ron 👍

Jesus. More than a whiff of Big Ron vibes off this one.

Seems Taylor and the wobbler are either unwilling or unable to address my posts asking them to explain what they mean.

Quite telling...

Quite telling? Lad I'm working.

Paul Pogba is a most commercial footballer. The epitome of "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it". His focus is on his brand, not his career. His inability to maintain a consistent performance level means he can't currently attract a better brand (club) to partner with. Which is why the transfer tittle tattle has dried up. He will only go somewhere if it makes him more marketable. So he has largely given up, and instead of being inconsistent, he's now unbothered.

Funnily enough I would at least praise him for having focus on something. Martial is even lazier. Too much money too young for that one.

It smacks of McCarthyism when you can't criticise players for fear of being branded a racist.

Luke Shaw is a key member of the lazy camp too. But a player of his limited technique and versatility maxed out in life in getting a long term Man Utd contract. Even if he gave a Henderson-style determination to proceedings he'd still be an average left back.

Whereas Martial and Pogba both have the physical and technical attributes to rank among the best players in the world. What's stopping them isn't a series of managers, it is themselves.