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Didn't see thus but a 2-1 away defeat to the champions isn't bad.  Goal difference not really affected and not a morale sapping hammering

Exactly. A morale boosting performance, with a lot of heart displayed, particularly when City went two up in the first half. Indeed the manner in which the squad gathered in the middle of the pitch at the final whistle, and then walked to the supporters, applauding, which I'm glad to say was reciprocated, gives hope for the last three games. A further week with Big Sam before the Newcastle game should help to improve the mood and hopefully defensive resilience, but the reality is that Newcastle still represents a huge challenge in footballing terms. 

A massive day for Leeds this afternoon and this evening. Victories for Fulham at home to Leicester, Brighton at home to Everton and Southampton away to Forest, are needed big time. The reality though is that Leeds will almost definitely be in the bottom three tonight which confirms the need for three points at the very least from the remaining three fixtures, to survive.

The reality will be that Leeds get defeated this afternoon. What Leeds' fans will be looking for is evidence of an improved attitude and approach, where Leeds become more difficult to break down and are a bit more resilient when they concede. Such signs would give hope for the last three fixtures which in reality are what Leeds should be targeting.

My fear here is an absolutely crushing defeat which devastates the goal difference and essentially means a dropped point. In such a scenario, there might be no way back, particularly of Forest - as they should - beat Southampton at the City Ground.

Fingers (and toes) tightly crossed.   

Bournemouth are no longer a sure thing. They will beat Everton.
Meanwhile
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65453934

This apparently is the final straw that broke the back in terms of Orta's tenure. Orta would be a bit of an idealist and wants football played 'the right way'. Big Sam actually put his own name forward for the job in February and apparently Orta was very energetic in dismissing it when it was discussed, threatening to resign if he was brought in. He went for Gracia and Gracia is now regarded as his man. The majority of the Board now recognise that Gracia is a busted flush, with 0% chance of keeping Leeds up and that some change was needed to increase that 0% to something marginally bigger. Apparently Orta was adamant that Gracia should stay and was dead against Allardyce. That is what ultimately led to the parting of the ways yesterday.

Latest odds have Everton and Forest at 4/7 with Leeds at 10/11.
Obviously if either of the 2 win a match the odds change.

Really? That genuinely shocks me!

Everton have Bournemouth home on the last day. Forest have Southampton home before that. I'd be working on the assumption that Leeds would need at a very bare minimum three points to stay up - and more likely four or five - and I just cannot see where they can win. But, hope springs eternal! 

One thing's for sure - someone is likely to survive with a low points total.

The 4 other teams in danger of relegation are crap.

Maybe so, seafoid, but what they do appear to have is a wee bit of heart and determination alongside a bit of organisation. Hand on heart, after recent 6-1, 5-1 and 4-1 thumpings, I'm not sure Leeds have. 

Thanks but no thanks

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2023/05/01/leeds-consider-sacking-javi-gracia-and-hiring-third-manager-of-season/

In the words of the Undertones, It's Going To Happen. Big Sam ( ) looks to be odds on favourite to come in for the last four games of the season. As Phil Hay described it, a Hail Mary option. It's not likely to be the only move either. Director of Football, Victor Orta - who many will see as the reason for the malaise - also looks like he will be packing his bags.

Best fans in Ireland, what draws you to that conclusion, there a certain element come out of Lurgan I wouldn't want at any game. thought Mayo got the best fans myself.

I'd actually would agree with you on that point about Mayo. They've been through thin and thin and yet stick loyally with their team.

The issue of who has the best fans is always going to be very subjective and is likely to be influenced by who you like / dislike. Armagh always had a core support of I'd guess 3-4,000 supporters and when things start going well the bandwagon really does grow.

However in the last two years or so that core Armagh support has really grown in size, with many more now regularly attending all matches and many prepared to travel long distances. That culminated in the match down in Kerry when it was estimated that there were between 5-6,000 supporters present in Tralee for a league game.

I'm afraid that yesterday all but confirmed our relegation, despite the bizarre fact that at the time of writing we are still sixteenth. How that is still the case is simply a reflection of the desperate overall standard at the bottom, but there are too many teams in the bottom five playing against each other for us to remain above the safety line for much longer.

The rapid deterioration in terms of the standards of performances has been at a dizzying speed. Up until just before half time in the Palace game, they were was no need to be particularly alarmed. However it has caved in catastrophically since then and it really begs the question what the hell happened at half time in that game - with allegations of a dressing room bust up - and indeed how have the squad become so mentally fragile since.

How did it all come to this? I've said it here before. The genius of Bielsa, getting a Championship side to ninth in the Premier League, created a false sense of security and that has been reflected in the recruitment strategy since, which emphasised the need to get young talent in for the future, when the actual need was the here and now. Never has such an awful strategy been summed up by the presence (or absence if you like) of one player than Georginio Rutter. A record signing who is getting little game time despite the dire need the Club is in. Desperate.

Phil Hay - as always - summed it up in a brilliant article in the Athletic, (which is unfortunately behind a pay wall) when he said,

"Bournemouth attacked sporadically and bagged four goals, a masterclass of football in third gear, of getting there without being forced to sweat buckets. Nobody is interested in the nuance beyond those points because scores on the board are all that carry any currency in these circumstances, and maybe that is the biggest lesson the past two Premier League campaigns have taught Leeds: the long game is no game at all unless results stay at a level that keeps the peace. Anything less and the long term plans - Gnonto, Rutter, aims beyond the immediate horizon - are more likely to benefit someone else."

I actually feel strangely stress free now about the whole thing. They're going down and they deserve to go down. It's as simple as that.

On the hill today and have to say Armagh have some of the scummiest 'supporters' I've ever seen at a gaa match, following club and county for years up and down the country and never seen as many people put out of the ground by the guards ever. Throwing flares and smoke bombs, firing plastic bottles at opposition fans, fighting and general soccer style chanting, it definitely wasn't a comfortable place to be at times. Most will have to watch the match again on Monday cos they've no idea what happened today.

Never ceases to amaze me how this narrative gets thrown around so often, i.e. the implication is that there is one set of supporters doing it. I was stood a few yards from Down supporters holding smoke flares and was nearly choked by the smoke. A middle aged slug beside me, from Down, his opening gambit (two minutes in) was "f**king Armagh tramps!" when Down were awarded their first free. He wasn't there for the last fifteen minutes. Another group to my right were so pissed up, that they dropped and smashed a full bottle of wine and a bottle of beer on the Hill - the beer exploded sending glass scattering.

I have no doubt that what you described happened - there were many Armagh fans I saw doing similar - but try and not be so one-eyed about the thing. It just makes you look bitter.

As for the match, ideal scenario for Armagh. A win over the neighbours but plenty still to work on, which should hopefully concentrate minds. If I'm honest, I think we will be really up against it in the Final - Derry look to have really improved from last year and are playing with the confidence brought on by being Ulster Champions.   

Leeds have to beat Bournemouth and Tottenham may be generous.
None of the other laggards have an easy run in

Events overnight have served to underline your point, with Forest beating Brighton, bringing them up to 30 points. They still have to play Southampton. My guess would be that Leeds need 5 / 6 points and I simply cannot see where they are coming from. Sunday though (at Bournemouth) has all the hallmarks of a must win game. 

And so the season limps on. Although the defence was a lot tighter at Fulham, still beaten comfortably with another insipid performance, where Leeds scored thanks to an OG following a goalmouth scramble, but already had been undone thanks to two bad errors by Meslier.

That left last night's home match against Leicester with the feeling of a must win game. Took the lead in the first half thanks to an excellent finish by Sinisterra, following good work by Harrison. However, fell away badly in the second half and were undone by a quick counter and cool Vardy finish. We were lucky not to go behind when Leicester (and Vardy) butchered a two on one (with a goal correctly ruled out for off side) and should have snatched the game at the death, when Roca's point blank header was kept out by the keeper (somehow) and then Paddy missed the mother of all open goals in the dying moments.

We move on now to Bournemouth away - probably now the last chance saloon, with a win needed. The absence of Wober was major last night. Meslier was lucky to retain his place in the side but responded with a very good performance. Midfield got overrun in the second half and Gracia is coming under serious criticism for his lack of response in terms of reinforcements, with only Aaronson coming off the bench.

The reality is that the team and players are not good enough at this level, which is very much on the Board and Victor Orta in particular. Although he did not play badly overall, never was the lack of quality more encapsulated by Bamford's miss, which undoubtedly cost two points that could so easily matter in four weeks time.

Those in the know seem to suggest 35/36 points will be enough to stay up but I'm struggling to see Leeds getting there. For me, staying up is likely to depend on three other sides performing abysmally between now and the end of the season, and Leeds somehow getting 3/ 4 points to scrape survival. It ain't a good look out. 

Yet another mauling last night, with the gulf in class between the two teams laid bare for all to see. Furthermore, there is a real fear now that there is real psychological damage being inflicted, given how the team seems to throw in the towel when things start to go wrong. In a relegation battle, such traits will be fatal.

The absence of both Adams and Wober have been huge and there are poor performances springing up everywhere which is beginning to take others down, with the collective effort spiralling downwards and out of control. How this is arrested, I don't know, but time is not on management's side, with three huge games coming up.

One thing that recent form has shown me is how out of touch with reality the board were in believing that the purchases they have made were going to have us being comfortable at this level. There have been a range of terrible investments and I honestly link the overall strategy back to our first season in the top flight when Bielsa 'magic-ed' a group of Championship players into a Top Ten finish, and which gave the Board a false sense of security. They got away with it last year, but you can only dodge so many bullets before you get hit.

If you just look at recent form it is unlikely that Leeds will go down.

No self respecting Leeds fan will consider such arguments. There are simply too many scars from over the years to feel anything but dread.

The most recent game was a classic of the type. Following a morale boosting and vital win against fellow strugglers Nottingham Forest, there were definite grounds for some optimism as we hosted another fellow struggler, Crystal Palace. A win seemed eminently achievable and the script was going according to hope after 30 minutes, leading 1-0, forcing the pace and pressing their keeper into a series of excellent saves. From the half hour mark on, Palace came more into the game and looked threatening from every set piece. The equaliser eventually arrived just before half time from another set piece. The second half was a disaster zone, with old wounds and nightmares opened up of the second leg play off defeat to Derby back in 2019, as the team simply capitulated.

The next game is home to Liverpool on Monday, and the fear from a Leeds point of view is that there is psychological damage which will serve to increase the sense of fragility. Right now, the only comfort is to be taken from the poor form of others and the hope that at the end of this all, there are three worse teams than Leeds. 

The mauling at Arsenal was probably to be expected and whilst it was sobering, the reality is that those are not the fixtures that matter. The one that did - Forest at home on Tuesday - resulted in a huge win. Reading reports, Leeds never seemed to panic after falling behind to an early goal and went on to dominate the game and probably should have won by more. Lot of praise for Roca who was man of the match for many and for Striujk, playing in his preferred position in the centre of the defence. However many raved about Harrison's performance, and in only a matter of weeks (under Gracia) he has turned his own form on its head and is scoring goals and providing assists. Indeed he has jus signed a new contract taking him to 2028.

The three points moved us from 18th to 13th but we are still only two points above the relegation zone. The match on Sunday, at home to Palace, is another huge fixture. Win that, go on to 32 points and we could feel as if we are in touching distance of safety. The pity in all of his is the loss of Adams, although Roca is stepping up, and Wober who remains unavailable. Gnonto was named on the bench but did not see game time, so hopefully the extra few days will see him available if needed. 

And mention of course of Gracia - lot of praise coming his way, having won three out of the first six. Less rigid than his predecessor in terms of tactics and prepared to adapt to meet different challenges. He keeps Leeds up and he will almost certainly be rewarded with a well deserved contract.

A few random points to make, with apologies to those also on the Orchard Fans forum, who will have heard these before. 

The whole issue of Geezer as manager seems to be becoming a major topic of discussion (again) within the County, with most people having a strong opinion on the matter and plenty supporting either side of the debate.

I have no doubt that almost any other manager would have been long gone by now if they had Geezer's record since starting. 

A lot of those calling for Geezer's head have a higher opinion of the abilities of our current County Senior Squad than I have. I would have Armagh in and around 8 - 10 in terms of the country, which places us towards the bottom of Division 1 / top of Division 2.

Many of those calling for Geezer's head appear to think that following an All Ireland quarter-final appearance and retention of Division 1 status last year, we should be progressing further this year. For me, it simply does not follow and my sense is that Armagh might have reached their level in 2022, i.e. a top 8 - 10 team.

Our Senior Team's fortunes rely heavily on some influential players who are now reaching veteran status. Murnin, Soupy, Forker and Grugan. I also get a sense that their continued buy in and commitment is down to Geezer's commitment to them as a man manager. I would have worries if Geezer was to go that those players - and others - might call it quits, which would be a significant blow to our fortunes. 

In the medium to longer term, I would fear for the future of our County Seniors. The standard of football is terrible in Armagh, and is accurately reflected in the fortunes of our Club Champions at Senior, Intermediate and Junior level and of our County Under 20 and Under 17 squads in Ulster. Last weekend, our Under 20s fell to yet another first round defeat whilst Tyrone were celebrating two underage All Ireland winning teams at Healy Park. The difference in terms of the pool of talent available is light years in distance. It could, and probably should, be argued that Geezer has Armagh boxing way above our weight at the moment.

I'd urge those calling for Geezer's head to be careful what you wish for.

What are the thoughts on playing Arsenal tomorrow?

It's going to be a long afternoon, I fear. This of course would be a tough fixture to start with but we're now heading to the Emirates without what many supporters consider to be our best three players this season, so far - Adams, Wober and Gnonto. In light of that, I hope they approach it with a nothing to lose attitude and see what happens. Often, when it's least expected, Leeds can pull a performance - and a result - from nowhere. Liverpool and Man United away are two cases in point. The need to stay up though is huge, and it will not depend on fixtures such as today.

In the longer term, Adams is out for the rest of the season, so it is likely that Roca and McKennie will be paired in midfield. Wober and Gnonto are considered short term injuries and should hopefully be back by Easter.