The IRISH RUGBY thread

[bennydorano]

Strange they didn't have a prep game b4 playing NZ, NZ's game v England obviously blew away any cobwebs.

[BigGreenField]

Rugby in Ireland as a whole has fallen into the trap of largely (not exclusively)  building its identity through school teams whose aim is to win their Schools Cup/Senior Challenge Cup equivalent  meaning they are very focused on players physically developed at 15/16 who can make a run at 17/18 for trophy.

All fit into systems and very little flair/individualism to achieve this - there is a reason most of the backs at international level are imported.

The downgrading of club identity has not been a good thing, overall they'll be competitive will execute mostly very well but will have a ceiling on success
Unless one of the imports does the business. 

Lot of similarities with Uk/Irish academy soccer development, great systems players but no magic.

[Sportacus]

No doubt about it, last nights game wasn't a good spectacle. Some of the World Cup games were.  It's hit and miss, like most sports. All very different from the days when Ireland were gallant losers, running out of steam in the last 15 minutes. The rare big wins were memorable. The players are monsters. I wouldn't encourage kids to play it.

[6th sam]

I'd be interested in posters views on rugby , though I suspect it won't be representative as many stay clear of the rugby thread and are now steering clear of watching rugby.
Whereas the IRFU deserve enormous credit for their management of the Irish team since the professional era, we are still falling short.
I admit that I don't get this business of Ireland being a top team in the world (on the basis of equations, coefficients etc , in what many of us consider as "friendlies"). Yet we still can't advance beyond the quarter finals of the World cup, even though getting to the quarter finals is a gimme , due to seeding and the fact that in only a handful of countries is rugby a major sport.
I think the fact that it's an All-Ireland team is a major plus , and though not perfect , it's All-Ireland ethos is an example and not just for sport.
Despite the hype from mainly the Dublin media , the fact remains that rugby in Ireland remains a minor sport and in reality it has advanced little beyond a small number of schools ( many elitist).

There's wall to wall complaint from the same Dublin media , about how unwatchable Gaelic football has become , but when is somebody going to call out Rugby.

This is only my opinion , but tbf shared by many people I know.
It's actually a dreadful sport to watch ( maybe just for those that never played it). And that's on TV , knowledgeable rugby friends of mine will admit it's even harder to enjoy the game in person , without camera angles , replays  and commentary/analysis.
Many friends who go to Ravenhill or Aviva , admit they're there for the beers and often don't even watch the match.

I'm going to throw it out there for comment, but that was absolutely dreadful to watch yesterday . Handling errors, kicking errors , baffling penalty concessions, risky collisions , stop-start.
We kid ourselves , as Ireland is competitive on a world stage and we'll cheer anyone wearing a green jersey , but where is the "Wow factor ". By comparison I just flicked on the TV last Saturday and watched the Dublin Hurling final which was a brilliant game , totally compelling . Riain O'Neill taking the All-Ireland by the scruff of the neck . Rhys McCleneghan winning gold . Champions league etc etc .

By comparison , the sky commentators were homing in on the fact that Finlay Bealham's hip moved slightly to concede a penalty in a scrum. Less exciting than tug of war . Raving about kicks that just happen to bounce the right way. Crucial penalties conceded cheaply. Empty the bench to rest professional  athletes  that aren't expected to complete a full game .

We've wall to wall barracking of Gaelic football by the Dublin media , when will we hear them negative about rugby as a spectacle? Maybe they went to "rugby schools" and understand it better than the rest of us, but for me , the hype around rugby is not matched by the game as a spectacle .

Would agree re last nights game, it was poor spectacle, errors galore, like watching an Ireland game from a 20 years ago, especially the missed tackles nevermind the unforced handling errors. I'd far rather watch a game of rugby than a soccer match, football, though can be a tough watch but there's a load of emotion attachment whether it's the club or the county.

Couple of questions, your Aviva / Ravenhill friends, what do they do when the game is on, apart from drink overpriced beer?  Personally I love attending the internationals with the old man / brothers, a great sporting day out, beers too of course!

Also on the hype part, I cannot understand why people get all hot and bothered about it, whether it's a boxer, a footballer, Ireland rugby etc, surely others opinions shouldn't matter? An eyebrow raiser

Each to their own

And re Marty's comment re clearing out the old guard, should obviously be phased, but there was half a dozen men there last night, most on the bench right enough who should have been put out to pasture

They joke about not watching the match but enjoying the occasion .

There's a lesson in that . A couple of the lads are from a GAA background are attracted by the Friday night , after work , social occasion. Ravenhill though not perfect is an attractive compact stadium, regularly filled as small capacity, leading to a family feel about it . Smaller pitch , so closer to players. Rugby are  A bit more creative about the occasion . Thomond park and Aviva also are good stadia .
Gaa by comparison don't have to work too hard. Local connection usually, quality rivalries , tradition , big stadia.


I think the GAA could market our games better, make them more of an occasion. Have packages to attract bigger crowds and have them concentrated for more atmosphere, and have a word with RTE about keeping negative pundits off-air


Rugby withe the help of Dublin media have got the marketing right , and fair play to them, because the sport is dreadful to watch

 

[screenexile]

Heartbreak for the English 2 weeks in a row!!

Makes up for last night.

[Orior]

So Ireland lost a friendly game of rugby. Meh.

[Armagh18]

I'd be interested in posters views on rugby , though I suspect it won't be representative as many stay clear of the rugby thread and are now steering clear of watching rugby.
Whereas the IRFU deserve enormous credit for their management of the Irish team since the professional era, we are still falling short.
I admit that I don't get this business of Ireland being a top team in the world (on the basis of equations, coefficients etc , in what many of us consider as "friendlies"). Yet we still can't advance beyond the quarter finals of the World cup, even though getting to the quarter finals is a gimme , due to seeding and the fact that in only a handful of countries is rugby a major sport.
I think the fact that it's an All-Ireland team is a major plus , and though not perfect , it's All-Ireland ethos is an example and not just for sport.
Despite the hype from mainly the Dublin media , the fact remains that rugby in Ireland remains a minor sport and in reality it has advanced little beyond a small number of schools ( many elitist).

There's wall to wall complaint from the same Dublin media , about how unwatchable Gaelic football has become , but when is somebody going to call out Rugby.

This is only my opinion , but tbf shared by many people I know.
It's actually a dreadful sport to watch ( maybe just for those that never played it). And that's on TV , knowledgeable rugby friends of mine will admit it's even harder to enjoy the game in person , without camera angles , replays  and commentary/analysis.
Many friends who go to Ravenhill or Aviva , admit they're there for the beers and often don't even watch the match.

I'm going to throw it out there for comment, but that was absolutely dreadful to watch yesterday . Handling errors, kicking errors , baffling penalty concessions, risky collisions , stop-start.
We kid ourselves , as Ireland is competitive on a world stage and we'll cheer anyone wearing a green jersey , but where is the "Wow factor ". By comparison I just flicked on the TV last Saturday and watched the Dublin Hurling final which was a brilliant game , totally compelling . Riain O'Neill taking the All-Ireland by the scruff of the neck . Rhys McCleneghan winning gold . Champions league etc etc .

By comparison , the sky commentators were homing in on the fact that Finlay Bealham's hip moved slightly to concede a penalty in a scrum. Less exciting than tug of war . Raving about kicks that just happen to bounce the right way. Crucial penalties conceded cheaply. Empty the bench to rest professional  athletes  that aren't expected to complete a full game .

We've wall to wall barracking of Gaelic football by the Dublin media , when will we hear them negative about rugby as a spectacle? Maybe they went to "rugby schools" and understand it better than the rest of us, but for me , the hype around rugby is not matched by the game as a spectacle .

Would agree re last nights game, it was poor spectacle, errors galore, like watching an Ireland game from a 20 years ago, especially the missed tackles nevermind the unforced handling errors. I'd far rather watch a game of rugby than a soccer match, football, though can be a tough watch but there's a load of emotion attachment whether it's the club or the county.

Couple of questions, your Aviva / Ravenhill friends, what do they do when the game is on, apart from drink overpriced beer?  Personally I love attending the internationals with the old man / brothers, a great sporting day out, beers too of course!

Also on the hype part, I cannot understand why people get all hot and bothered about it, whether it's a boxer, a footballer, Ireland rugby etc, surely others opinions shouldn't matter? An eyebrow raiser

Each to their own

And re Marty's comment re clearing out the old guard, should obviously be phased, but there was half a dozen men there last night, most on the bench right enough who should have been put out to pasture

They joke about not watching the match but enjoying the occasion .

There's a lesson in that . A couple of the lads are from a GAA background are attracted by the Friday night , after work , social occasion. Ravenhill though not perfect is an attractive compact stadium, regularly filled as small capacity, leading to a family feel about it . Smaller pitch , so closer to players. Rugby are  A bit more creative about the occasion . Thomond park and Aviva also are good stadia .
Gaa by comparison don't have to work too hard. Local connection usually, quality rivalries , tradition , big stadia.


I think the GAA could market our games better, make them more of an occasion. Have packages to attract bigger crowds and have them concentrated for more atmosphere, and have a word with RTE about keeping negative pundits off-air


Rugby withe the help of Dublin media have got the marketing right , and fair play to them, because the sport is dreadful to watch

 

Think you've hit the nail on the head there.

[tiempo]

The majority of GAA pundits on tv are begorrah merchants looking to appear interesting and relevant to stay on the gravy train. Brian Clough had it right, show more football and less talking. People are watching for a bit of entertainment/escapism via the game, not to hear retired players roll out a series of trope statements and then contradict themselves in subsequent weeks

[Wildweasel74]

Needed to be playing 2/3 games before taking on NZ at the end of their season and Ireland in Pre Season.Only need to blood players 2yrs out from the World Cup,but we a few guys past it now, we been blessed for 15yrs with Sexton and O'Gara.at fly Half. Now we going into a few yrs with nowhere near that standard and suffering badly for it.

[thewobbler]

Needed to be playing 2/3 games before taking on NZ at the end of their season and Ireland in Pre Season.Only need to blood players 2yrs out from the World Cup,but we a few guys past it now, we been blessed for 15yrs with Sexton and O'Gara.at fly Half. Now we going into a few yrs with nowhere near that standard and suffering badly for it.

Getting on with it regardless of whether circumstances are in your favour or not, is a fundamental tenet of what sport is.

If the suggestion is that Ireland should manage their calendar to ensure things only fall neatly in their favour, well f**k that for a game of darts. That's not sport.

And nor is it going to help Ireland find the stones to finally win a RWC knockout game.

[thewobbler]

I'd be interested in posters views on rugby , though I suspect it won't be representative as many stay clear of the rugby thread and are now steering clear of watching rugby.
Whereas the IRFU deserve enormous credit for their management of the Irish team since the professional era, we are still falling short.
I admit that I don't get this business of Ireland being a top team in the world (on the basis of equations, coefficients etc , in what many of us consider as "friendlies"). Yet we still can't advance beyond the quarter finals of the World cup, even though getting to the quarter finals is a gimme , due to seeding and the fact that in only a handful of countries is rugby a major sport.
I think the fact that it's an All-Ireland team is a major plus , and though not perfect , it's All-Ireland ethos is an example and not just for sport.
Despite the hype from mainly the Dublin media , the fact remains that rugby in Ireland remains a minor sport and in reality it has advanced little beyond a small number of schools ( many elitist).

There's wall to wall complaint from the same Dublin media , about how unwatchable Gaelic football has become , but when is somebody going to call out Rugby.

This is only my opinion , but tbf shared by many people I know.
It's actually a dreadful sport to watch ( maybe just for those that never played it). And that's on TV , knowledgeable rugby friends of mine will admit it's even harder to enjoy the game in person , without camera angles , replays  and commentary/analysis.
Many friends who go to Ravenhill or Aviva , admit they're there for the beers and often don't even watch the match.

I'm going to throw it out there for comment, but that was absolutely dreadful to watch yesterday . Handling errors, kicking errors , baffling penalty concessions, risky collisions , stop-start.
We kid ourselves , as Ireland is competitive on a world stage and we'll cheer anyone wearing a green jersey , but where is the "Wow factor ". By comparison I just flicked on the TV last Saturday and watched the Dublin Hurling final which was a brilliant game , totally compelling . Riain O'Neill taking the All-Ireland by the scruff of the neck . Rhys McCleneghan winning gold . Champions league etc etc .

By comparison , the sky commentators were homing in on the fact that Finlay Bealham's hip moved slightly to concede a penalty in a scrum. Less exciting than tug of war . Raving about kicks that just happen to bounce the right way. Crucial penalties conceded cheaply. Empty the bench to rest professional  athletes  that aren't expected to complete a full game .

We've wall to wall barracking of Gaelic football by the Dublin media , when will we hear them negative about rugby as a spectacle? Maybe they went to "rugby schools" and understand it better than the rest of us, but for me , the hype around rugby is not matched by the game as a spectacle .

Would agree re last nights game, it was poor spectacle, errors galore, like watching an Ireland game from a 20 years ago, especially the missed tackles nevermind the unforced handling errors. I'd far rather watch a game of rugby than a soccer match, football, though can be a tough watch but there's a load of emotion attachment whether it's the club or the county.

Couple of questions, your Aviva / Ravenhill friends, what do they do when the game is on, apart from drink overpriced beer?  Personally I love attending the internationals with the old man / brothers, a great sporting day out, beers too of course!

Also on the hype part, I cannot understand why people get all hot and bothered about it, whether it's a boxer, a footballer, Ireland rugby etc, surely others opinions shouldn't matter? An eyebrow raiser

Each to their own

And re Marty's comment re clearing out the old guard, should obviously be phased, but there was half a dozen men there last night, most on the bench right enough who should have been put out to pasture

They joke about not watching the match but enjoying the occasion .

There's a lesson in that . A couple of the lads are from a GAA background are attracted by the Friday night , after work , social occasion. Ravenhill though not perfect is an attractive compact stadium, regularly filled as small capacity, leading to a family feel about it . Smaller pitch , so closer to players. Rugby are  A bit more creative about the occasion . Thomond park and Aviva also are good stadia .
Gaa by comparison don't have to work too hard. Local connection usually, quality rivalries , tradition , big stadia.


I think the GAA could market our games better, make them more of an occasion. Have packages to attract bigger crowds and have them concentrated for more atmosphere, and have a word with RTE about keeping negative pundits off-air


Rugby withe the help of Dublin media have got the marketing right , and fair play to them, because the sport is dreadful to watch

 

No i'm not going with this.

Of course, no doubt, there is a luvvie love-in between national broadcasters and rugby. It's almost an incestuous fuckbuddy kind of scenario.

But in terms of crowds at matches and atmospheres? Come on. The Ulster championship final atmosphere / crowd / occasion outstrips anything that provincial rugby does, and by a margin.

[6th sam]

Ulster championship matches in general have a great atmosphere but many other matches don't . The point I'm making is that though the sport is poor fare, Ulster rugby regularly fill a compact stadium and are imaginative about the occasion .
Gaa has it too easy :strong rivalry , big stadia , plenty of scores,  so they are by less creative about making the product more attractive

[Captain Scarlet]

And as noted rugby are not shy about making it an event with pints thrown in.
The GAA run miles from beer chat and day trippers.
Even at club level rugby if it's a nice day there could be a BBQ, bar open. It's an event.

Pat Spillane was angry over a full Croker for Leinster v Munster.
The same price who coined the phrase puke football!
He SLATED the sport for 20 years in the media.

[JoG2]

I'd be interested in posters views on rugby , though I suspect it won't be representative as many stay clear of the rugby thread and are now steering clear of watching rugby.
Whereas the IRFU deserve enormous credit for their management of the Irish team since the professional era, we are still falling short.
I admit that I don't get this business of Ireland being a top team in the world (on the basis of equations, coefficients etc , in what many of us consider as "friendlies"). Yet we still can't advance beyond the quarter finals of the World cup, even though getting to the quarter finals is a gimme , due to seeding and the fact that in only a handful of countries is rugby a major sport.
I think the fact that it's an All-Ireland team is a major plus , and though not perfect , it's All-Ireland ethos is an example and not just for sport.
Despite the hype from mainly the Dublin media , the fact remains that rugby in Ireland remains a minor sport and in reality it has advanced little beyond a small number of schools ( many elitist).

There's wall to wall complaint from the same Dublin media , about how unwatchable Gaelic football has become , but when is somebody going to call out Rugby.

This is only my opinion , but tbf shared by many people I know.
It's actually a dreadful sport to watch ( maybe just for those that never played it). And that's on TV , knowledgeable rugby friends of mine will admit it's even harder to enjoy the game in person , without camera angles , replays  and commentary/analysis.
Many friends who go to Ravenhill or Aviva , admit they're there for the beers and often don't even watch the match.

I'm going to throw it out there for comment, but that was absolutely dreadful to watch yesterday . Handling errors, kicking errors , baffling penalty concessions, risky collisions , stop-start.
We kid ourselves , as Ireland is competitive on a world stage and we'll cheer anyone wearing a green jersey , but where is the "Wow factor ". By comparison I just flicked on the TV last Saturday and watched the Dublin Hurling final which was a brilliant game , totally compelling . Riain O'Neill taking the All-Ireland by the scruff of the neck . Rhys McCleneghan winning gold . Champions league etc etc .

By comparison , the sky commentators were homing in on the fact that Finlay Bealham's hip moved slightly to concede a penalty in a scrum. Less exciting than tug of war . Raving about kicks that just happen to bounce the right way. Crucial penalties conceded cheaply. Empty the bench to rest professional  athletes  that aren't expected to complete a full game .

We've wall to wall barracking of Gaelic football by the Dublin media , when will we hear them negative about rugby as a spectacle? Maybe they went to "rugby schools" and understand it better than the rest of us, but for me , the hype around rugby is not matched by the game as a spectacle .

Would agree re last nights game, it was poor spectacle, errors galore, like watching an Ireland game from a 20 years ago, especially the missed tackles nevermind the unforced handling errors. I'd far rather watch a game of rugby than a soccer match, football, though can be a tough watch but there's a load of emotion attachment whether it's the club or the county.

Couple of questions, your Aviva / Ravenhill friends, what do they do when the game is on, apart from drink overpriced beer?  Personally I love attending the internationals with the old man / brothers, a great sporting day out, beers too of course!

Also on the hype part, I cannot understand why people get all hot and bothered about it, whether it's a boxer, a footballer, Ireland rugby etc, surely others opinions shouldn't matter? An eyebrow raiser

Each to their own

And re Marty's comment re clearing out the old guard, should obviously be phased, but there was half a dozen men there last night, most on the bench right enough who should have been put out to pasture

They joke about not watching the match but enjoying the occasion .

There's a lesson in that . A couple of the lads are from a GAA background are attracted by the Friday night , after work , social occasion. Ravenhill though not perfect is an attractive compact stadium, regularly filled as small capacity, leading to a family feel about it . Smaller pitch , so closer to players. Rugby are  A bit more creative about the occasion . Thomond park and Aviva also are good stadia .
Gaa by comparison don't have to work too hard. Local connection usually, quality rivalries , tradition , big stadia.


I think the GAA could market our games better, make them more of an occasion. Have packages to attract bigger crowds and have them concentrated for more atmosphere, and have a word with RTE about keeping negative pundits off-air


Rugby withe the help of Dublin media have got the marketing right , and fair play to them, because the sport is dreadful to watch

 

No i'm not going with this.

Of course, no doubt, there is a luvvie love-in between national broadcasters and rugby. It's almost an incestuous fuckbuddy kind of scenario.

But in terms of crowds at matches and atmospheres? Come on. The Ulster championship final atmosphere / crowd / occasion outstrips anything that provincial rugby does, and by a margin.

The roads, the queues for overpriced room temperature beer, a dilapidated stadium, yet it is a momentous occasion, and I'd say one of the great sporting events on the planet

[tonto1888]

I'd be interested in posters views on rugby , though I suspect it won't be representative as many stay clear of the rugby thread and are now steering clear of watching rugby.
Whereas the IRFU deserve enormous credit for their management of the Irish team since the professional era, we are still falling short.
I admit that I don't get this business of Ireland being a top team in the world (on the basis of equations, coefficients etc , in what many of us consider as "friendlies"). Yet we still can't advance beyond the quarter finals of the World cup, even though getting to the quarter finals is a gimme , due to seeding and the fact that in only a handful of countries is rugby a major sport.
I think the fact that it's an All-Ireland team is a major plus , and though not perfect , it's All-Ireland ethos is an example and not just for sport.
Despite the hype from mainly the Dublin media , the fact remains that rugby in Ireland remains a minor sport and in reality it has advanced little beyond a small number of schools ( many elitist).

There's wall to wall complaint from the same Dublin media , about how unwatchable Gaelic football has become , but when is somebody going to call out Rugby.

This is only my opinion , but tbf shared by many people I know.
It's actually a dreadful sport to watch ( maybe just for those that never played it). And that's on TV , knowledgeable rugby friends of mine will admit it's even harder to enjoy the game in person , without camera angles , replays  and commentary/analysis.
Many friends who go to Ravenhill or Aviva , admit they're there for the beers and often don't even watch the match.

I'm going to throw it out there for comment, but that was absolutely dreadful to watch yesterday . Handling errors, kicking errors , baffling penalty concessions, risky collisions , stop-start.
We kid ourselves , as Ireland is competitive on a world stage and we'll cheer anyone wearing a green jersey , but where is the "Wow factor ". By comparison I just flicked on the TV last Saturday and watched the Dublin Hurling final which was a brilliant game , totally compelling . Riain O'Neill taking the All-Ireland by the scruff of the neck . Rhys McCleneghan winning gold . Champions league etc etc .

By comparison , the sky commentators were homing in on the fact that Finlay Bealham's hip moved slightly to concede a penalty in a scrum. Less exciting than tug of war . Raving about kicks that just happen to bounce the right way. Crucial penalties conceded cheaply. Empty the bench to rest professional  athletes  that aren't expected to complete a full game .

We've wall to wall barracking of Gaelic football by the Dublin media , when will we hear them negative about rugby as a spectacle? Maybe they went to "rugby schools" and understand it better than the rest of us, but for me , the hype around rugby is not matched by the game as a spectacle .

I used to enjoy union. Not anymore. League is a much better game