Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[giveballaghback]

Roscommon's 6 minute possession is surely the last straw before a rule change at next year's congress.
The most obvious answer is either a shot clock like in basketball or a limited number of possessions like in American Football/Rugby League. For shot clock, some time between 60 and 90 seconds, for possessions ~15.
I'm sure the GAA will come up with an alternative solution that they'll mess up such as a limited number of backward passes or disallow passes into your own half.
For possessions or shot clock, it would need to be tasked with someone else besides the ref to monitor. 2 umpires perhaps?

So the Rossie's get competitive in Croker and now ye want a shot clock😂  not much point taking a shot if your
80 mtrs from the opposition goal and imagine how long it would take for coaches to organise a system to keep the team in possession at bay until the clock runs down. No one was calling for a shot clock when the dubs were playing it over and back on the 45mtr line against Tyrone in the 2017 all Ireland semi or in the final that year against Mayo when they ran down the clock at the end of the game. Game management was the buzz word or was it brilliant game management. Those are just 2 instances of hundreds but when the Rossie's dared to do it then time for a rule change. Our super 8 game against the dubs a few years ago we scored 2-16 but conceded 4-24, we were a laughing stock after that game but now we're wrecking the beautiful game😎 tough s... lads,
We are Ros. 😎😎

[Rossfan]

And we don't know our place
Long may we continue to be so ignorant .

If ye want to criticise why not start with the team that refuses to challenge the team in possession?
Bring in a rule that if you don't tackle the man with the ball it's a 13m free.

It's no sillier than some of the daftness proposed.

[blanketattack]

Roscommon's 6 minute possession is surely the last straw before a rule change at next year's congress.
The most obvious answer is either a shot clock like in basketball or a limited number of possessions like in American Football/Rugby League. For shot clock, some time between 60 and 90 seconds, for possessions ~15.
I'm sure the GAA will come up with an alternative solution that they'll mess up such as a limited number of backward passes or disallow passes into your own half.
For possessions or shot clock, it would need to be tasked with someone else besides the ref to monitor. 2 umpires perhaps?

So the Rossie's get competitive in Croker and now ye want a shot clock😂  not much point taking a shot if your
80 mtrs from the opposition goal and imagine how long it would take for coaches to organise a system to keep the team in possession at bay until the clock runs down. No one was calling for a shot clock when the dubs were playing it over and back on the 45mtr line against Tyrone in the 2017 all Ireland semi or in the final that year against Mayo when they ran down the clock at the end of the game. Game management was the buzz word or was it brilliant game management. Those are just 2 instances of hundreds but when the Rossie's dared to do it then time for a rule change. Our super 8 game against the dubs a few years ago we scored 2-16 but conceded 4-24, we were a laughing stock after that game but now we're wrecking the beautiful game😎 tough s... lads,
We are Ros. 😎😎

Actually I have been looking for a rule change since the possession game went mainstream.
Every team does it so don't be so precious thinking this is anti-Roscommon.
I'd be happy for my own team to do it for the last 15 min of an All-Ireland final to maintain a 1 point lead, but I would prefer it restricted in some way.

[Angus MacGyver]

The fault for Roscommon's protracted spell of passing lies with Dublin, not Roscommon. They didn't engage to try and win the ball back.

Changing any rule for this glitch in the the game has to be designed to create a contest for possession, not to put a time limit on it. It has to be made worth the risk of players coming out of a defensive mass, and to do that there must be a realistic chance of a turnover.  The written rules of rugby for are centred on the premise that control of the ball is contested at all times in open play, and the rules reward execution of superior skill to gain that control.Shot clock is an admission of defeat. 13-a side would make the situation worse because there is even more space and less opportunity to pressure the ball.

How can the same contest, or similar, be achieved in Gaelic football? It comes down to how easy it is for player to escape pressure, or to dispose of the ball under pressure. Steps out the tackle is an endemic problem, most especially if the the ball carrier is shaping to shoot. Defenders have zero chance if an attacking player is given 7 or 8 steps on the loop. Throwing the ball is the other menace. Its done so casually and so often now that refs barely even bother calling the free any more. The skill level needed to retain possession drops as a result.

Some possible solutions (bearing in mind the nightmare workload on officials already;
1) Ban the handpass over the bar as a scoring option, or indeed a ball palmed to the net from a handpass received.
2) 2 points for a point from play outside 45
3) Abolish the offensive/defensive mark
4) A player tackled and going to ground (knees on the ground) in possession of the ball must immediately release. Holding or lying on the ball on the ground = free (it already is but most refs chicken out and throw the ball up)
5) 5 steps maximum and indirect free for the infringement (take the pressure off the ref for calling a defender for over carrying)
6) If the ball is carried back into own 45 when in possession then it must be kick-passed until out of the '45

   

[smort]

Some great points there Angus. The steps one is probably a major contributing factor to retreating defences alright.

[markl121]

a shot clock on the Mark would be useful, I thought I remembered when they were introduced that you have 3 seconds to kick it or something? Now it's lined up like a free kick.

[AustinPowers]

I agree about the Fist passing  the ball  over the bar . It is an abomination 

[onefineday]

I agree about the Fist passing  the ball  over the bar . It is an abomination

Yes, 💯.
But, the forward mark is worse. It's utterly abused, teams manufacturing marks to get a free shot at goal - grugan's mark in the Ulster final last minute, rock got a similar one Vs Rossies on Sunday too. Crappy 10m passes from just over the 45 into the chest for totally uncontested catches and resulting shot on goal.
Clifford"s 2(?) Superb takes in the all Ireland final last year are probably the only examples I can think of where the rule produced the desired outcome - a superb high catch of a contested long ball.  Great as they were to witness, we'd be better off just getting rid of the rule.

[Blowitupref]

The fault for Roscommon's protracted spell of passing lies with Dublin, not Roscommon. They didn't engage to try and win the ball back.

Changing any rule for this glitch in the the game has to be designed to create a contest for possession, not to put a time limit on it. It has to be made worth the risk of players coming out of a defensive mass, and to do that there must be a realistic chance of a turnover.  The written rules of rugby for are centred on the premise that control of the ball is contested at all times in open play, and the rules reward execution of superior skill to gain that control.Shot clock is an admission of defeat. 13-a side would make the situation worse because there is even more space and less opportunity to pressure the ball.

How can the same contest, or similar, be achieved in Gaelic football? It comes down to how easy it is for player to escape pressure, or to dispose of the ball under pressure. Steps out the tackle is an endemic problem, most especially if the the ball carrier is shaping to shoot. Defenders have zero chance if an attacking player is given 7 or 8 steps on the loop. Throwing the ball is the other menace. Its done so casually and so often now that refs barely even bother calling the free any more. The skill level needed to retain possession drops as a result.

Some possible solutions (bearing in mind the nightmare workload on officials already;
1) Ban the handpass over the bar as a scoring option, or indeed a ball palmed to the net from a handpass received.
2) 2 points for a point from play outside 45
3) Abolish the offensive/defensive mark
4) A player tackled and going to ground (knees on the ground) in possession of the ball must immediately release. Holding or lying on the ball on the ground = free (it already is but most refs chicken out and throw the ball up)
5) 5 steps maximum and indirect free for the infringement (take the pressure off the ref for calling a defender for over carrying)
6) If the ball is carried back into own 45 when in possession then it must be kick-passed until out of the '45

Hard to disagree with any of that, good post.

[Cavan19]

I agree about the Fist passing  the ball  over the bar . It is an abomination

Yes, 💯.
But, the forward mark is worse. It's utterly abused, teams manufacturing marks to get a free shot at goal - grugan's mark in the Ulster final last minute, rock got a similar one Vs Rossies on Sunday too. Crappy 10m passes from just over the 45 into the chest for totally uncontested catches and resulting shot on goal.
Clifford"s 2(?) Superb takes in the all Ireland final last year are probably the only examples I can think of where the rule produced the desired outcome - a superb high catch of a contested long ball.  Great as they were to witness, we'd be better off just getting rid of the rule.

Great fielding but if it wasn't for the mark he would be tearing in on goal which is what i'd prefer to see than a tap over the bar.

[inowbest]

Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days'  of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.

[Milltown Row2]

I'd need a watch for the sin bin, the stop watch for the shot clock, the ordinary watch for the game and the watch to ensure the stoppages for injuries and so on is done!! Pure shite talk

[Angus MacGyver]

Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days'  of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.

I agree with the the sentiment here to a large extent. Bringing in radical changes like a shot clock as a knee jerk reaction is ludicrous.  That would turn football into some sort of poxy turns-based game like rugby league. Not where we need to go.  Learn from the damage done by the inside mark!

However, there is room to look at the details and interpretations of the game we already have.
I've started watching a fair bit of AFL again recently and despite its other flaws, the jeopardy involved in the constant risk of being turned over in possession makes for a compelling contest. We need more of that in football. Figuring out how is the issue. Most of the suggestions I've seen are likely to be counterproductive and full of risk of unintended consequence.

A system of repeated trial games under new rules, not in national competitions, is needed- does that exist?. Trying out a committees deliberations in the league is not satisfactory. 

[smort]

Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days'  of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.

I agree with the the sentiment here to a large extent. Bringing in radical changes like a shot clock as a knee jerk reaction is ludicrous.  That would turn football into some sort of poxy turns-based game like rugby league. Not where we need to go.  Learn from the damage done by the inside mark!

However, there is room to look at the details and interpretations of the game we already have.
I've started watching a fair bit of AFL again recently and despite its other flaws, the jeopardy involved in the constant risk of being turned over in possession makes for a compelling contest. We need more of that in football. Figuring out how is the issue. Most of the suggestions I've seen are likely to be counterproductive and full of risk of unintended consequence.

A system of repeated trial games under new rules, not in national competitions, is needed- does that exist?. Trying out a committees deliberations in the league is not satisfactory.

Was thinking about this overnight Angus and think you have hit on something regarding the risk of turnovers in the AFL. They obviously have a more robust tackle, which I don't think could be introduced to GAA. However, I think we need to incentivise and reward teams for pushing up, rather than retreating. One thing I thought of was to return the kickout to the small square, for all kickouts. This automatically would get teams 15 yards further up the pitch and make the short kickout a bit trickier

Also, what about restarting the game with a throw-in at midfield after a goal is scored

[Mario]

Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days'  of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.

I agree with the the sentiment here to a large extent. Bringing in radical changes like a shot clock as a knee jerk reaction is ludicrous.  That would turn football into some sort of poxy turns-based game like rugby league. Not where we need to go.  Learn from the damage done by the inside mark!

However, there is room to look at the details and interpretations of the game we already have.
I've started watching a fair bit of AFL again recently and despite its other flaws, the jeopardy involved in the constant risk of being turned over in possession makes for a compelling contest. We need more of that in football. Figuring out how is the issue. Most of the suggestions I've seen are likely to be counterproductive and full of risk of unintended consequence.

A system of repeated trial games under new rules, not in national competitions, is needed- does that exist?. Trying out a committees deliberations in the league is not satisfactory.

Was thinking about this overnight Angus and think you have hit on something regarding the risk of turnovers in the AFL. They obviously have a more robust tackle, which I don't think could be introduced to GAA. However, I think we need to incentivise and reward teams for pushing up, rather than retreating. One thing I thought of was to return the kickout to the small square, for all kickouts. This automatically would get teams 15 yards further up the pitch and make the short kickout a bit trickier

By the small square do you mean the square that contains the penalty spot? That isn't a bad idea. I'd go further and say you can't return within the 14 yard line once you cross it. The pitch is too big at the minute and difficult to turn over possession. Even reducing it by a small amount would increase the opportunity for turnovers without radically changing the game