Hurling 2022

[Saffrongael]

Yeah, now they are Div 2 & intermediate but only a couple of years ago they were Div 3 & Junior. He was a county regular then. Maybe even more so than now.

There will always be exceptions to the rule.. Gearóid Hegarty is from great stock, his da Ger was a fantastic hurler back in the day but the strangest thing he never played county until under 20 and better known as a footballer, fair fucks to whoever seen his potential as his dad (own words) never seen his hurling ability

He was up with the minors but didn't do much according to this article I read a few weeks ago

Limerick's bionic man Gearóid Hegarty ready to take on Galway

Denis Walsh Sunday Times

There was a time in Gearóid Hegarty's career when none of this was imagined: the acclaim, the awards, the Marvel Comics stuff. He was a gangly teenager and, like a crossword, he was full of blanks and cryptic clues. For two years he was part of the Limerick minor hurling panel, and in his second season he failed to make the match day squad. It sounds outlandish now, but not then; it didn't represent a blind spot in anyone's judgment. The clues were obscure.

John Brudair saw a glimpse of something and explored it. For a few months, nearly a decade ago, he trained the senior footballers at St Pat's, Hegarty's club. Hegarty had a platonic relationship with football at the time, but that year they went on a run in the championship, and Brudair loved Hegarty's moxie. St Pat's lost the semi-final by a point and towards the end of it Hegarty was so wasted from the fight that he threw up on the pitch.

Brudair was appointed manager of the Limerick senior footballers shortly afterwards, and even though Hegarty had no underage pedigree as a footballer, he invited him on to the panel. "You could see he just needed to grow into his body," Brudair says now. "He was a very tall man who hadn't done any strength work at all. He'll admit himself, the learning curve in terms of S&C that he got from football was hugely important. But he also had great character, so he was going to make it at some stage. He had great belief that he was going to."

Hegarty tells a story from his first gym session with the footballers in UL. The players were asked to bench press three-quarters of their body weight and Hegarty was paired with Garrett Noonan, who was around the same size. Noonan did 25 reps at 70kg and Hegarty stepped up for his turn.

"I said, 'Jesus, this can't be too bad.' I got down and I couldn't even lift the bar. I was never so embarrassed in all my life. I swore to myself, 'That will never happen again.'"

The Limerick footballers weren't a stadium act, but they gave Hegarty a stage. Brudair remembers him playing centre field for the U-21s against Cork with Will O'Donoghue as his companion giant, like something from Game of Thrones; O'Donoghue had never played minor hurling for Limerick either. Nobody was making wild forecasts.

Hegarty was still in his early 20s, in just his third season on the team, when Brudair made him vice captain of the senior footballers. It was around that time that he started to blossom. When Limerick won the U-21 All-Ireland in 2015 Hegarty played wing-back, surrounded by a dozen other players who had already played senior, or would do so shortly.

Hegarty is a former member of the Limerick senior football team
Hegarty is a former member of the Limerick senior football team
BRENDAN MORAN/SPORTSFILE
On that team, the limelight didn't know where to look: Cian Lynch, Diarmaid Byrnes, Sean Finn, Tom Morrissey, Darragh O'Donovan, Barry Nash, Mike Casey, Richie English were in the line-up. Peter Casey couldn't get a game. And Hegarty? He was mid-pack. It is hard to countenance now, but when TJ Ryan asked him to join the senior panel for the following season there was an element of speculation and risk.

"How raw was he? Oh jeepers, as raw as could be. I don't even know how you could measure it," says Ryan. "He just would have had a lot of developing to do. He wouldn't have been exposed to that level of hurling before. He probably didn't know at the time whether he could make it at the top level or not. That was probably the question he had himself.

"It was around the time when there were probably questions about everybody – including myself – about whether people were good enough for Limerick or not. And I'm sure it would have been questioned why we were playing him in the forwards."

James Ryan was one of the pillars of the team at the time, and just like Hegarty, he had started his inter county career as a footballer. He understood the challenge of making the transition.

"His hurling skills were definitely a bit behind what they should have been," says Ryan. "You're not going to have a good first touch and you're striking isn't going to be good if you've been concentrating on football, that's just the way it is. His athleticism was at an unbelievable level, but the big talk around Limerick was, 'He's not good enough at all. His hurling isn't good enough.' Now look what he's doing with the ball."

Four years later, Hegarty was the undisputed Hurler of the Year. In the All-Ireland final he scored seven points, some of them magnificent. Over the course of the season, he had more shots from play (28), and more assists for shots (21), than any other Limerick player. In a team at the height of its power, he was first among equals.

Hegarty's sweet and sour game is the perfect expression of Paul Kinnerk's vision. On the ball, he's explosive and productive; without the ball he's dynamic and aggressive. Just like many football teams, Limerick pursue a pattern of strategic fouling in their forward line, and Hegarty is one of the enforcers: in the 2020 All-Ireland semi-final and final he conceded ten frees, evenly split, without being booked in either game.

His tackle on Joe Canning in the 2020 semi-final could easily have generated a red card, and this year he has been sent off twice; once harshly, once without argument. Limerick make no apology for hurdling whatever boundary constitutes the edge, and jumping back. It is hard-wired into their outlook. In their push for discipline they budget for slips.

Their home match against Waterford in the championship this year captured the full spectrum of Hegarty's game. Within four minutes, before he had touched the ball, he had committed two fouls; the first should have been a yellow card, the second one was. "It's not the first time we've seen Gearóid a bit loose with the hurley like that," said Nicky English in the Sky Sports commentary.

Not long afterwards he dispossessed Darragh Lyons twice, legitimately, in the same episode of frenzied tackling. Then, a couple of minutes before half-time, he struck a sumptuous point from the side line, under the Mackey Stand. "That's one of the scores of the game," said English. "Hegarty's touch was unbelievable there." It was.

Hegarty is 27 now, in his athletic pomp. Standing at 6ft 5in , and carrying 15st 2lb, he is built like a Springboks flanker, the biggest player on the biggest team in the championship. "With Sean Finn and Gearóid Hegarty it's the very same thing when they have the ball," says James Ryan. "It's like a good minor marking a bad U-14. They look that far ahead at times."

So, did anybody see it coming? "I'd love to tell you I did," says TJ Ryan, "but no, it was impossible to see what he would become. Only he can take credit for that. But one of the things you love to see in a player is ambition, and he definitely had it. When you want it, and you keep going after it, your ambition will keep taking you there. That's what he did."

That's what he does.

[themac_23]

Kilkenny are very strong at senior, intermediate and the junior grades in the All-Ireland series.

They are all evenly balanced, all strong.

A team could come up from intermediate and give the senior club championship a rattle, at worst, they are really competitive.

Other counties are nowhere as evenly structured.

Is this your own opinion or have you a link or stat to back that up?

Was in Galway few years ago and St Thomas's were not a senior team, funny enough after winning minor championships and gaining senior they won club all Irelands. Sometimes teams come along from lower grades and play well. Sometimes you have an exceptional player who is from a junior grade club who is county standard..

Well, funny you should ask that:

KK clubs have won 10 junior All-Irelands, 7 Intermediate All-Irelands and 6 senior* club All-Irelands.

* only went back to 2005 with the senior clubs.  KK clubs were runners up 4 junior All-Ireland finals and 3 intermediate club finals.

Now, onto my point about their system and how competitive they are.

St. Pat's Ballyragget won a Junior KK club title in 1978 and the next year, 1979, they won a KK Intermediate title.

More recently, in 2013, Clara won a KK Intermediate (2012) and All-Ireland title and in 2013, they got up to senior and won the senior KK club championship. They won it again 2 years later in 2015. Not a bad achievement!

One more example - In 2015, Bennetsbridge won the Junior All-Ireland club title. Later that year, they won the KK Intermediate title on they way to going on to win the All-Ireland club title in early 2016. Again, not bad at all.

As I say, a  well structured  competitive competition.

I wasn't arguing your point on teams in Kilkenny, your original point was junior clubs having senior county standard players.. it happens, my point was that junior teams from Limerick Waterford (the Benntts team) Kilkenny and so on are of a much higher grade to Antrims junior teams and as such will occasionally produce a top player, and for us to get a player from let's say Ardoyne ( no offence to Ardoyne btw) to be a regular on the Antrim senior hurling is going to be very very rare

You could bring the former Antrim captain who's been lining out for Ardoyne this year back into the fold :p

Your point stands though, junior clubs in ulster hurling isn't usually their first sport so don't spend anywhere near as much time with a hurl in hand as players from junior clubs in the big counties, I'd say it's the same in football, you're more likely to get a county player playing JFC in a Kerry or Tyrone rather than an Antrim where the drop off in standard is massive

[Milltown Row2]

Yeah, now they are Div 2 & intermediate but only a couple of years ago they were Div 3 & Junior. He was a county regular then. Maybe even more so than now.

There will always be exceptions to the rule.. Gearóid Hegarty is from great stock, his da Ger was a fantastic hurler back in the day but the strangest thing he never played county until under 20 and better known as a footballer, fair fucks to whoever seen his potential as his dad (own words) never seen his hurling ability

He was up with the minors but didn't do much according to this article I read a few weeks ago

Limerick's bionic man Gearóid Hegarty ready to take on Galway

Denis Walsh Sunday Times

There was a time in Gearóid Hegarty's career when none of this was imagined: the acclaim, the awards, the Marvel Comics stuff. He was a gangly teenager and, like a crossword, he was full of blanks and cryptic clues. For two years he was part of the Limerick minor hurling panel, and in his second season he failed to make the match day squad. It sounds outlandish now, but not then; it didn't represent a blind spot in anyone's judgment. The clues were obscure.

John Brudair saw a glimpse of something and explored it. For a few months, nearly a decade ago, he trained the senior footballers at St Pat's, Hegarty's club. Hegarty had a platonic relationship with football at the time, but that year they went on a run in the championship, and Brudair loved Hegarty's moxie. St Pat's lost the semi-final by a point and towards the end of it Hegarty was so wasted from the fight that he threw up on the pitch.

Brudair was appointed manager of the Limerick senior footballers shortly afterwards, and even though Hegarty had no underage pedigree as a footballer, he invited him on to the panel. "You could see he just needed to grow into his body," Brudair says now. "He was a very tall man who hadn't done any strength work at all. He'll admit himself, the learning curve in terms of S&C that he got from football was hugely important. But he also had great character, so he was going to make it at some stage. He had great belief that he was going to."

Hegarty tells a story from his first gym session with the footballers in UL. The players were asked to bench press three-quarters of their body weight and Hegarty was paired with Garrett Noonan, who was around the same size. Noonan did 25 reps at 70kg and Hegarty stepped up for his turn.

"I said, 'Jesus, this can't be too bad.' I got down and I couldn't even lift the bar. I was never so embarrassed in all my life. I swore to myself, 'That will never happen again.'"

The Limerick footballers weren't a stadium act, but they gave Hegarty a stage. Brudair remembers him playing centre field for the U-21s against Cork with Will O'Donoghue as his companion giant, like something from Game of Thrones; O'Donoghue had never played minor hurling for Limerick either. Nobody was making wild forecasts.

Hegarty was still in his early 20s, in just his third season on the team, when Brudair made him vice captain of the senior footballers. It was around that time that he started to blossom. When Limerick won the U-21 All-Ireland in 2015 Hegarty played wing-back, surrounded by a dozen other players who had already played senior, or would do so shortly.

Hegarty is a former member of the Limerick senior football team
Hegarty is a former member of the Limerick senior football team
BRENDAN MORAN/SPORTSFILE
On that team, the limelight didn't know where to look: Cian Lynch, Diarmaid Byrnes, Sean Finn, Tom Morrissey, Darragh O'Donovan, Barry Nash, Mike Casey, Richie English were in the line-up. Peter Casey couldn't get a game. And Hegarty? He was mid-pack. It is hard to countenance now, but when TJ Ryan asked him to join the senior panel for the following season there was an element of speculation and risk.

"How raw was he? Oh jeepers, as raw as could be. I don't even know how you could measure it," says Ryan. "He just would have had a lot of developing to do. He wouldn't have been exposed to that level of hurling before. He probably didn't know at the time whether he could make it at the top level or not. That was probably the question he had himself.

"It was around the time when there were probably questions about everybody – including myself – about whether people were good enough for Limerick or not. And I'm sure it would have been questioned why we were playing him in the forwards."

James Ryan was one of the pillars of the team at the time, and just like Hegarty, he had started his inter county career as a footballer. He understood the challenge of making the transition.

"His hurling skills were definitely a bit behind what they should have been," says Ryan. "You're not going to have a good first touch and you're striking isn't going to be good if you've been concentrating on football, that's just the way it is. His athleticism was at an unbelievable level, but the big talk around Limerick was, 'He's not good enough at all. His hurling isn't good enough.' Now look what he's doing with the ball."

Four years later, Hegarty was the undisputed Hurler of the Year. In the All-Ireland final he scored seven points, some of them magnificent. Over the course of the season, he had more shots from play (28), and more assists for shots (21), than any other Limerick player. In a team at the height of its power, he was first among equals.

Hegarty's sweet and sour game is the perfect expression of Paul Kinnerk's vision. On the ball, he's explosive and productive; without the ball he's dynamic and aggressive. Just like many football teams, Limerick pursue a pattern of strategic fouling in their forward line, and Hegarty is one of the enforcers: in the 2020 All-Ireland semi-final and final he conceded ten frees, evenly split, without being booked in either game.

His tackle on Joe Canning in the 2020 semi-final could easily have generated a red card, and this year he has been sent off twice; once harshly, once without argument. Limerick make no apology for hurdling whatever boundary constitutes the edge, and jumping back. It is hard-wired into their outlook. In their push for discipline they budget for slips.

Their home match against Waterford in the championship this year captured the full spectrum of Hegarty's game. Within four minutes, before he had touched the ball, he had committed two fouls; the first should have been a yellow card, the second one was. "It's not the first time we've seen Gearóid a bit loose with the hurley like that," said Nicky English in the Sky Sports commentary.

Not long afterwards he dispossessed Darragh Lyons twice, legitimately, in the same episode of frenzied tackling. Then, a couple of minutes before half-time, he struck a sumptuous point from the side line, under the Mackey Stand. "That's one of the scores of the game," said English. "Hegarty's touch was unbelievable there." It was.

Hegarty is 27 now, in his athletic pomp. Standing at 6ft 5in , and carrying 15st 2lb, he is built like a Springboks flanker, the biggest player on the biggest team in the championship. "With Sean Finn and Gearóid Hegarty it's the very same thing when they have the ball," says James Ryan. "It's like a good minor marking a bad U-14. They look that far ahead at times."

So, did anybody see it coming? "I'd love to tell you I did," says TJ Ryan, "but no, it was impossible to see what he would become. Only he can take credit for that. But one of the things you love to see in a player is ambition, and he definitely had it. When you want it, and you keep going after it, your ambition will keep taking you there. That's what he did."

That's what he does.

His da must have missed those games at minor lol!!

[marty34]

Pauric Maher going in as with Cahill and Bevans.

Good choice for them, and with him not playing now, he'll get the fire going.

Declan Laffan (who managed Laois club to 2-in-a-row) and T.J. Ryan (not the Limerick one) in the backroom team also.

Cahill seems to be well prepared. Nearly too well - I wonder was he tapped up a lot earlier than people think or say he was?

[clonadmad]

Pauric Maher going in as with Cahill and Bevans.

Good choice for them, and with him not playing now, he'll get the fire going.

Declan Laffan (who managed Laois club to 2-in-a-row) and T.J. Ryan (not the Limerick one) in the backroom team also.

Cahill seems to be well prepared. Nearly too well - I wonder was he tapped up a lot earlier than people think or say he was?

He wasn't tapped up and it was a lot earlier

[clonadmad]

Cody gone

[imtommygunn]

Probably lost a few friends this year it's the Henry thing but what a tenure. He could have taken the easy route and retired when that golden generation did but he didn't. Some tenure.

[laoislad]

Probably lost a few friends this year it's the Henry thing but what a tenure. He could have taken the easy route and retired when that golden generation did but he didn't. Some tenure.

Plenty in KK think he should have went a few years ago, but sure he earned the right to stay on I suppose.
Be interesting to see who will take it on. Can't see Henry leaving Galway after 1 season.
Maybe Eddie Brennan.

[marty34]

Legend of a manager.

Greatest GAA manager ever.

Enough said.

[imtommygunn]

Probably lost a few friends this year it's the Henry thing but what a tenure. He could have taken the easy route and retired when that golden generation did but he didn't. Some tenure.

Plenty in KK think he should have went a few years ago, but sure he earned the right to stay on I suppose.
Be interesting to see who will take it on. Can't see Henry leaving Galway after 1 season.
Maybe Eddie Brennan.

Yeah but I suspect they may have changed their mind this year.

[Premier Emperor]

He won't be missed!
He stepped on plenty of toes over the years.

[seafoid]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/race-is-on-to-succeed-brian-cody-as-kilkenny-legend-emerges-as-frontrunner-41862689.htmlFive candidates were immediately linked to the role last night: Henry Shefflin, Eddie Brennan, Michael Fennelly and Conor Phelan, who along with Martin Comerford and James McGarry were part of Cody's management team during the last two seasons, and Derek Lyng.

There were suggestions in some quarters last night that Lyng, who managed Kilkenny to victory in the All-Ireland under 20 championship this year, is seen as the front-runner and the man most likely to be nominated as Cody's successor with Phelan taking over the under-20 side.

[onefineday]

A great game in many ways but players are flicking the ball over the bar effortlessly from 100 yards out. It's getting like basketball and a score barely registers with the crowd until the last 10 minutes of a tight game.

Flicking it effortlessly over the bar from 100 yards... looks easy, take a dander down to your pitch tonight then tell me how effortless those strikes are

Not sure that's the right comparator MR2, maybe comparing scoring of top players of this era versus top players of the past would yield more meaningful results. Although that's been done already, earlier in the thread but you refuse to accept there's an issue. For me the free effortlessly scored by Byrnes from his own 21 midway through the first half summed up the problem. In previous era's would taking the shot there ever have been contemplated? But, nothing to see here, no change needed cos change is bad....

The top players from the 70's are no where near the same shape physically or trained to the level that is carried out today... you can't compare, players have developed and the top players have developed physically and skill wise even further again

So again I'll say if it's that easy go and try it at your pitch...

Maybe if we look at the lower championships, while that standard is great they ain't having pop shots from a 100 years and effortlessly knocking them over the bar...

I'll check the stats when I get a chance to see the scoring areas, unlike football, hurlers will have a go and if they score they score the footballers need to take the ball into a scoring zone of 21 meters, teams from a different e time shot from further out.

I've asked why are the changes required, is it to improve the game? And if so miss hitting the ball and dropping it short or off target how will that improve it? Imagine bringing those changes to club games to

I acknowledge conditioning and skill levels are much higher, so is the equipment, bigger sweet spot and lighter more aerodynamic ball.
I personally don't like that it's even an option to consider having a go from well inside your own half, maybe it's just because I can't see the ball when they do that!!
I said earlier that a simple change would be increasing the value of the goal, that changes the equation and maybe there's a more negative reaction to having a go from 100yds in that case. But I also think that it shouldn't be a matter of routine to tap over frees from deep inside your own half.

[seafoid]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2022/0723/1311866-fogarty-kilkenny-job-may-come-too-soon-for-shefflin/

It was very frustrating because it has been said before, Brian wouldn't have been the best man-manager and never was.


He never put the arm around the shoulder and I'm just talking from my own personal dealings with Brian. Maybe this happened to other players.You got the team on a Friday night and you weren't on it and possibly never got a word during the week. That was very, very hard to take as a player

[onefineday]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2022/0723/1311866-fogarty-kilkenny-job-may-come-too-soon-for-shefflin/

It was very frustrating because it has been said before, Brian wouldn't have been the best man-manager and never was.


He never put the arm around the shoulder and I'm just talking from my own personal dealings with Brian. Maybe this happened to other players.You got the team on a Friday night and you weren't on it and possibly never got a word during the week. That was very, very hard to take as a player

Davy Fitz would be some craic as kk manager!