Offaly look like they're gonna be a force to reckon with in years to come, they beat Limerick quite comfortably, were very unlucky against waterford and actually didn't play too bad against Kilkenny (scoreline not a true reflection on game)
So what does everybody else think about the future of Offaly hurling?
The signs are positive but they will need to improve a lot more even to win a big match next year - second season will determine how far they've come on.
I think we need to not get carried away. We are still a long, long way off Kilkenny (obviously). I do think we are closer to the likes of Waterford, Clare, Limerick, etc etc, so if we continue to make sure we play with passion, with a clear gameplan, and continue to improve, we will join the peleton fairly quickly.
Underage is still a concern for me. We need to make sure that Offaly play the same way at all grades, so that lads can step up and feel comfortable. We need to coach the basics of Offaly hurling well. Hooking, Blocking, Ball movement, Intelligent decisions etc etc. And we also need to work on high fielding.
I'm more hopeful than this time last year, but I won't be breaking out the champagne anytime soon.
Eh for the record I'm not from Offaly, I'm from Meath!
Do Offaly have much underage success coming through the ranks? All I know is they lost out to Kilkenny in the Leinster u-21 final.
But they've had a good year this year at senior (a relitavely young team too) and with Birr making the all-ireland club final I'd say the future looks bright for the faithful.
Quote from: davereilly on August 11, 2008, 04:04:12 PM
Eh for the record I'm not from Offaly, I'm from Meath!
Do Offaly have much underage success coming through the ranks? All I know is they lost out to Kilkenny in the Leinster u-21 final.
But they've had a good year this year at senior (a relitavely young team too) and with Birr making the all-ireland club final I'd say the future looks bright for the faithful.
I meant 'we' because I'm from Offaly. I guessed you weren't :D
Offaly have a young senior team, and hopefully this year will encourage them to kick on from there. Underage is far from great, which is why I'm worried about it, but there is the basis for implementing a plan, with tangible results fairly quickly if we take the chance.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 11, 2008, 03:53:35 PM
I think we need to not get carried away. We are still a long, long way off Kilkenny (obviously). I do think we are closer to the likes of Waterford, Clare, Limerick, etc etc, so if we continue to make sure we play with passion, with a clear gameplan, and continue to improve, we will join the peleton fairly quickly.
Underage is still a concern for me. We need to make sure that Offaly play the same way at all grades, so that lads can step up and feel comfortable. We need to coach the basics of Offaly hurling well. Hooking, Blocking, Ball movement, Intelligent decisions etc etc. And we also need to work on high fielding.
I'm more hopeful than this time last year, but I won't be breaking out the champagne anytime soon.
Offaly are improving for sure and its great to see. A very young senior side who are certainly heading in the right direction.
Only problem i see ahead of next years championship is the fact that they find themselves in Div 2 of the league.
Its games against the teams like Waterford, Clare & Limerick they need to be playing. But instead will be having games against Kerry, Down, Westmeath, Carlow, Laois etc which is hardly ideal preparation.
Hard to get up to the pace of a Kilkenny game if your last game was v Kerry for example.
Is the Leinster championship seeded? Kilkenny never seem to appear before a semi final. I do not think that is a bad thing as the last thing Laois or westmeath need is a 40 point tanking off the cats in a preliminary round match. If it is seeded Offally would probably have a warm up match before meeting the Cats.
like the rest of leinster unfortunately, no hope of silverware for about 6 years at least. and thats the best case scenario. they are on the way back , but will probably have to be content with good scalps in the qualifiers.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 11, 2008, 10:32:43 PM
like the rest of leinster unfortunately, no hope of silverware for about 6 years at least. and thats the best case scenario. they are on the way back , but will probably have to be content with good scalps in the qualifiers.
Pretty much sums it up! Yes Offaly, Wexford and Dublin are not far off Munster but still quiet a bit behind Kilkenny.
QuoteWe are still a long, long way off Kilkenny
You could say that about everyone up to and including Cork. Tipp or Waterford in full flight might give them a game and I stress might.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 13, 2008, 09:35:27 AM
QuoteWe are still a long, long way off Kilkenny
You could say that about everyone up to and including Cork. Tipp or Waterford in full flight might give them a game and I stress might.
I know that, but the aim is to get back to challenging them. It's not impossible, just very hard.
As far as I know Kilkenny's u21 team this year was the first success they had underage in years so there's not alot developing there, Sheflin and the likes won't be around forever. in time Offaly will put up a good match against Kilkenny and I believe are up there with the likes of Clare and Waterford
The thing is Dave that teams like Offaly under 21s last year, and Dublin underage teams recently have beaten the Cats because that particular team is better than the Kilkenny counterpart. But Kilkenny produce a player or two every single year who make the step up. For the rest of our sakes you would hope there won't be too many more Shefflins or Tommy Walshes, but they are consistently producing new players, which is what the purpose of Under 21 and Minor is really. Winning titles at those levels is not a real indicator, if you are consistently competitive, which they are, and producing players, which they do, you'll be in good shape.
Ok I understand that but the likes of the Dublin vs. galway u21 AIF last year showed that someday the 15 of each team can make a county senior team and do wonders. Kilkenny do have the occasional great player in an underage panel but they don't seem to shine like Sheflin and Walsh. Kilkenny clubs haven't made a strong impact this year either (apart from Conahy Shamrocks who the AI JHC) but that's only junior.
Kilkenny are human, and have peaks and troughs as well. The problem for us is their peaks are so much higher, and their troughs are not as low. I'm not giving up hope, and I know I will see the day when Offaly beat Kilkenny, or at least approach the game with confidence, again with decent regularity, but I'd say it's at least 3 years away.
Perhaps but Offaly still have a young team, the likes of Diarmuid Horan being one of the senior stars while still u21 is always a good sign :)
Ah yeah, I'm hopeful. The likes of David Kenny, Diarmuid Horan, Joe Bergin, Shane Dooley, Daniel Currams et al can, WITH WORK, go on to be very good senior hurlers for Offaly, and there are others coming through as well. Also the likes of Rory Hannify, Brian Carroll, Brendan Murphy, David Franks etc have a good few years left in them.
I'm not taking anything for granted with Offaly, but I am hopeful for our progress, certainly. I do think Kilkenny will come back to the pack a little bit, but I still think it will be 3 years at least before we are in a position to catch them on any given day in Leinster.
dave go and watch the club championship in kk at the weekend, you'll be crying into your cornflakes the next day when you see the standard. there are probably 20 players not on the cats 30, that would walk onto any other county side bar cork,tipp and waterford. kilkenny's b team would beat every team bar those 3 at the moment an average cats u21 made shite of good dublin and offaly teams. thats what they described their u21 team this year to me- average.
F**** sake i'd hate to see what they call good.
Dave Kilkenny won the U21 two years ago, they were in the minor AI final last year and are again in it this year. Ballyhale won the Club All Ireland last year and had it not been for injuries they would have made a good stab at winning it again.
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 14, 2008, 09:37:48 AM
Dave Kilkenny won the U21 two years ago, they were in the minor AI final last year and are again in it this year. Ballyhale won the Club All Ireland last year and had it not been for injuries they would have made a good stab at winning it again.
Likewise Limerick made an AIF last year and this year they've sacked their manager and it looks like they're out of good players, alot can happen over a year.
Offaly made strides this year, but it all could be quickly undone with a couple of lean years.
However it is heartening to see players putting in performances of guts and determination.
This had been sorely missing for the last 8 years and there have been some very spineless displays in the interim.
Long term, the performance of the minors is worrying in that we still have a long way to go to raise the standards at underage.
There is definitely the spine of a good senior team there, but you need to keep topping the senior panel up with good fresh talent.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 13, 2008, 06:42:30 PM
dave go and watch the club championship in kk at the weekend, you'll be crying into your cornflakes the next day when you see the standard. there are probably 20 players not on the cats 30, that would walk onto any other county side bar cork,tipp and waterford. kilkenny's b team would beat every team bar those 3 at the moment an average cats u21 made shite of good dublin and offaly teams. thats what they described their u21 team this year to me- average.
F**** sake i'd hate to see what they call good.
I think people make a mistake of overstating the back up strength of the best team of the day.
Very often when these teams that lose their best couple of players, the standard of the team drops dramatically.
Fogarty, Rice, Power, Tyrell etc are fine hurlers, but they certainly wouldn't siginificantly raise the standard of any of the other top hurling teams around if they defected to them.
Kilkenny have a few really top class players and a strong enough squad to make sure they don't have any serious weak links in their 15.
However, I wouldn't go as far as to think their subs would beat other top county teams.
here are kilkennys subs,
James McGarry-Goalkeeper- Bennettsbridge
17 James Ryall- Right Wing Back- Graigue-Ballycallan
18 Richie Mullally- Midfield- Glenmore
19 Eoin Reid Left Corner Forward Ballyhale Shamrocks
20 John Dalton Centre Back Carrickshock
21 P.J. Delaney Centre back Fenians
22 Michael Fennelly Midfield Ballyhale Shamrocks
23 Michael Rice Left Wing Forward Carrickshock
24 Eoin McCormack Right Corner Forward James Stephens
25 Richie Power Right Wing Forward Carrickshock
26 Peter Cleere Midfield Blacks and Whites
27 Donnacha Cody Left Corner Back James Stephens
28 T.J. Reid Left Corner Forward Ballyhale Shamrocks
29 Michael Murphy Left Corner Forward Mullinavat
30 John Tennyson Centre Back Carrickshock
I think there subs could make the semi's fairly handy. They may even cause an upset and get into the final.
Regardless The cats have some depth about them
Quote from: youngfella on August 19, 2008, 11:43:44 PM
here are kilkennys subs,
James McGarry-Goalkeeper- Bennettsbridge
17 James Ryall- Right Wing Back- Graigue-Ballycallan
18 Richie Mullally- Midfield- Glenmore
19 Eoin Reid Left Corner Forward Ballyhale Shamrocks
20 John Dalton Centre Back Carrickshock
21 P.J. Delaney Centre back Fenians
22 Michael Fennelly Midfield Ballyhale Shamrocks
23 Michael Rice Left Wing Forward Carrickshock
24 Eoin McCormack Right Corner Forward James Stephens
25 Richie Power Right Wing Forward Carrickshock
26 Peter Cleere Midfield Blacks and Whites
27 Donnacha Cody Left Corner Back James Stephens
28 T.J. Reid Left Corner Forward Ballyhale Shamrocks
29 Michael Murphy Left Corner Forward Mullinavat
30 John Tennyson Centre Back Carrickshock
I think there subs could make the semi's fairly handy. They may even cause an upset and get into the final.
Regardless The cats have some depth about them
With all due respects, there is not a hope of them getting near the semis.
Most of these players can slot well into a top class 15, but are not standalone brilliant players.
There are no game winning players like Shefflin, Walsh, Delaney, Comerford etc there.
I think people are dazzled by the overall Kilkenny package.
They are a few points better than the rest, but that certainly doesn't mean that 16-30 are better than most people's 1-15.
They're bench LOOKS dazzling. But they're not good enough to be near the team. Cody tries to put in this we're better then everyone else, superiority image for the rest of us, and to scare his own team. When he says that everyone on the KK team is irreplaceable, it's bull just talk. The reality is that it's just talk. That bench isn't good enough to replace the good chunk on the KK team.