Hmm. I would normally go for Cork when these two meet but Ive a feeling that this will be a rare chamiobship win for the Banner. Cork on a high, one week to recover, thinkin of KK and Clare will be thinkin of nothing else but revenge for 2005. Clare cant bad up front as the last day and Joe Deane will not get the room he got against Galway. Clare by a point!
I'd be inclined to agree with you, except for one thing. Clare's half forward line was hurled up and down a stick against Tipperary, with O'Mahoney and Corcoran especially cleaning up for long periods. Cork's half back line is even stronger, probably, and unless Clare can bypass that line, or come up with a plan, they'll be undone.
One thing is for certain though, Clare won't be bullied (legally) off the ball like the Galway lads were...
By the way, this is another Double header on Sunday (I think) in Thurles. I think that's a good decision. Logistically Wexford, Waterford, Clare and Cork are all close enough to Thurles, and it should make for a great day out, probably close to 45-50k there.
This will be one hell of a battle no doubt about it. I take Cork to win but they will have to fight for it all the way.
No doubt Clare will be hurt by their terrible performance in the Munster Final, I don't think passion alone is enough and I can't see their forwards getting much change out of the Corks backs. Cork to win by 5 or 6
The closer we get to this, the more of a chance I'm giving to Clare, in my head. I think Mike Mc has done the right thing in putting gerry Quinn in at centre back, and Bugler on the wing, dropping Conor Plunkett. Quinn moving in there against Tipp made a big difference to that game, and he should hold things together there.
Clare hit a lot of wides against Tipp, but if they can have a better day in front of the posts, they have a right chance. Griffin, Carmody and McMahon should be able to compete physically with the Cork half back line, and Barry Nugent is in as well, so Clare have big enough forwards, apart from Jonathan Clancy.
I'm changing my mind. I've talked myself into it. Clare by 3.
Agree that the changes will help Clares cause but I just don't think they have the firepower to beat Cork. AZ what did you think of the U21 last night or have you tried to blank it out ;) KK were really impressive, fascinating how all their teams have adopted the senior style of play thus ensuring guys slot into the senior team when their time comes.
I'm blanking it out. Putting it down to a bad day at the office. Very disappointed, but trying to focus on the recent positives. Offaly never looked up for the game, didn't pressurise at all, and our half forward line was wiped out.
Gutted to be honest, but that was a good Cats team.
Cats seemed the fresher team alright, probably too many of the Offaly players were suffering after their exploits with teh senior team!! Personally I think it's beacuse Cowen was there, he seems to bring bad luck for ye ;)
I think Cork are on a roll after the second half last week.
Clare are coming off the back of underperforming in the Munster final.
Clare need to make it physical to have a chance.
Clare are really putting it up to Cork.
Time for Cork to sacrifice Big Diarmuid again, or he will lose it for them.
Cork would have a better chance of beating Kilkenny in the semi though.
I think you're right I think Sully should be subbed. But then again we're struggling around the pitch in other places. I'm not too worried if we get a good start in the second half I think we could do it but like Clare want it more, the Cork players..again, need a kick up the arse. I think were in need of another half time speech. If we put up a big fight like we did against Galway then I'll be happy but I don't know if we have it left in us. Hopefully we do.
Ok actually I am worried.
UP THE REBELS!!
have to say dickie murphy is having a nightmare day, won;t be getting any christmas cards in clare
terrible refereeing though. He missed at least 2 frees at the end for clare and i think clancy's point was over the bar. Certainly the view from behind was that it just sneaked in.
Clare conceded 2 awful goals and couldn't sustain the physical intensity necessary to beat a technically superior team. Well doen to Cork though on the comeback , but I still don't see them beating the Cats. Ultimately the 2 goals cost Clare, you wouldn;t see them in an U14 game.
Fair play to Cork. Another great match. Cork's main players showed serious character in that second half but they cant afford a bad start against the cats. Surely The rock wont start the semi??
Clare were 5 up when they should have had a penalty
Fair dos to cork great comeback, however 35 mins of hurling will not beat the cats.As for sully thats surely the end of him
Dickie Murphy again stayed loyal to his Cork roots! ;D
Two very bad goals given away by Clare though.
They had Cork on the rack.
Cork are a long way off the standard and serious imporvement is needed against Kilkenny.
Putting gardiner full back would be a waste, but O'Sullivan is being shown up every game.
My bold prediction. If Diarmuid O'Sullivan plays more than 30 minutes full back against Kilkenny, Kilkenny will beat them by at least 6 points.
Clare had Cork in all sorts of trouble there yesterday, but a few things stood out for me as I watched the game from the Killinane end, as opposed to TV, so I might be wrong on further viewing.
1) Clare hit stupid, stupid, stupid wides in the first 20 minutes when they were well on top. It's no exaggeration to say the score could and should have been 1-16 to 6 points at least at half time.
2) Dickie Murphy rode Clare bareback. Possibly not intentionally, but just in his style. Several times Clare lads were fouled in possession, and Dickie didn't blow up. Cork got a few frees, which were frees in fairness, but Clare seemed to have to work very, very hard to get a free. I'm not sure if it was just the 'types' of contact that Clare were getting them selves into.
3) Clare went out of the game badly in the half forward line and midfield in the second half. Where they never gave Sean Og, Curran or Gardiner a minute's peace, or an easy ball, in the first half, it was noticeable how often Cork picked up loose ball or breaks in the second half. Also Tom Kenny and Ronan Curran made a couple of great breaks up the field as well, which wasn't happening in the first half. It's hard to keep the intensity Clare were at, which made their first half wides all the more costly.
4) Cork's willpower is immense. Fair play to them. They were getting cleaned, no other word for it, cleaned, for 35 minutes yesterday, and they lifted themselves again, to go to the well one more time. Whatever about their likeability or otherwise, you have to hold up your hand and say they are some men in a battle, and fair play to them.
Cork will give Kilkenny a right rattle, but the stuff they've got away with so far would cost them dearly against the Cats. Falling into any sort of deficit. Being open to conceding goals. Going out of the game for periods of time. All that spells suicide against Kilkenny.
Have to agree with a lot of the comments above on Dickie Murphy. He absolutely rode Clare yesterday, especially in the latter part of the second half. Credit to Cork for the comeback, but they will need to lineout their defence as they finished yesterday otherwise KK will beat them out the gate. O'Sullivan's career as an intercounty fullback is well and truely over after his last couple of displays. Cork will fight tooth and nail to stop the cats doing the 3 in a row, but I think this team may have been to the well too often his season already and will more than likely come up a few point short.
As a fellow Wexfordman I can tell you that Dickie does have his favourite teams and it shows when he refs games. Dickie is known admirer of Cork and Tipp and it tends to show when he is in charge of any of their games. Clare clearly should have had a pen yesterday and also Clare had to work harder for their frees compared to Cork.
I'm no fan of Dickie as I have been on the receiving end of his bias in club games before, he honestly has a God complex on the pitch.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 28, 2008, 11:14:57 AM
Have to agree with a lot of the comments above on Dickie Murphy. He absolutely rode Clare yesterday, especially in the latter part of the second half. Credit to Cork for the comeback, but they will need to lineout their defence as they finished yesterday otherwise KK will beat them out the gate. O'Sullivan's career as an intercounty fullback is well and truely over after his last couple of displays. Cork will fight tooth and nail to stop the cats doing the 3 in a row, but I think this team may have been to the well too often his season already and will more than likely come up a few point short.
Isn't that what everyone said when we were going to play Galway, they're done, they've no hope great Canning will lead Galway in and trash Cork because that's what the media says, because Galway were one of the favourites to win the AI. But what happened we had a great game great comeback..but probably just one last kick in the dead body right, that's what everyone said before the Clare game, ah sure they only probably just had one last kick in them, Clare will be hungry, fresh etc, Cork are done and yet again against Clare the same thing happened, great comeback, played a fantastic game, but no..no were still not favourites against a KK side who get too much credit then they deserve, you're supposed to earn that but they haven't to be honest. They're in the semi final without even hitting a ball. We've proved ourselves so many times over and over again this season when every single person said that we couldn't and we did.
You know the Tipp game, there was one main reason we lost to Tipp, because we let them back in, we let them in, the fact that we were still trying to find our best combination up front and our fitness levels also had an impact but the main reason was because we tried to play a game style that wasn't our own. In the first half we riped Tipp to shreds, we played our running game like we did in the second half of Galway and Clare and it worked really well. If we had kept playing that type of game, instead of trying to play some other style that suited no one, lobbing balls up onto our small forwards..etc, wasn't going to work and it didn't so we handed Tipp the game on a silver plate and in fairness they took it well with both hands. But Tipp don't scare me, they certainly wont scare Waterford. What I saw against Clare in the final, though good it was, was nothing to fear.
The Dublin game was just a bad day. Dublin put it up to us, they, despite what the media would like you to believe, were always going to be hard to beat. They put it up to us and we played as well as we needed to, if worse came to worse the lads could have
upped it if they needed to.
So after all of that, we're still not favorites. I don't mind not being favs. To be honest I think it's better but I just can't believe that were being written off again. This Cork team knows full well that 35 mins alone against KK will be like signing a death warrant. It wont be good enough, if we give KK an 8 point lead we might as well leave then and there. But I can't believe yet again people think that this Cork team is finished again, after all we've seen. This Cork team, really, REALLY wants to stop KK going for the 3 in a row and the only thing that will stop them is fatique. KK have had it nice and easy all season, and are nice and fresh and like I said, they haven't even hit a ball properly and they're in the semi. I don't know if the lads can physically do it again, they might be too tired, this teams been on the road for a long time, and this season hs been no different, if not harder then others. But it will be tiredness not lack of skill that could be our undoing against KK. We don't fear them. We're not afraid of Kilkenny. Now us being battle hardened could either stand to us or be our undoing. The Cork players will want it more, KK always get credit that they don't deserve. Even on the Sunday game last night, praising them to the high heavens but for what, winning Leinster.
One things for sure though come the final whistle of that match the hurling system will be shown for it's fault in Leinster because either Cork wont have the legs or KK will lack the match time.
I believe that the Cork team can beat KK, for so many reasons, the 3 in a row, the fact that they'll be written off again, the claim as the greatest team in Ireland, the will to want to keep on going and win one more AI. And the fact that we have bloody good hurlers.
We've problems in out defence at FB and I hope that'll be fixed by the selectors come match day. I can't see them playing, Sully, who has been the best FB in the country for years, I think his time has come to an end. He hasn't been having it easy. But stopping Canning isn't exactly the easiest thing to do and the entire backline was being pulled apart in the Clare game, not just him. So we'll see what happens. It'll be difficult to make decisions on who to play, but that's a good thing. We've a fantastic bench and there will be some very tough calls in there but I'm not going to question the selectors seeing as they've pulled it out of thin air yet again.
QuoteCork will give Kilkenny a right rattle, but the stuff they've got away with so far would cost them dearly against the Cats. Falling into any sort of deficit. Being open to conceding goals. Going out of the game for periods of time. All that spells suicide against Kilkenny.
Who's witing them off? I don't think Cork will have any fear of Kilkenny, nor should they, but common sense would tell you, as you've said yourself, that what happened the last two days will not be good enough. That's not exactly writing them off. Do you write motivational speeches for the rebels, twisting everything that's said? :D
Also, as for saying Kilkenny haven't hit a ball this season, that's just typical munster rubbish that I had hoped Offaly and Wexford's displays especially, would have quietened a bit. Offaly beat Limerick, and gave Waterford their bellyful of it. Wexford gave Waterford an even tougher test. Kilkenny had to work hard against both until they managed to pull away. That doesn't mean Offaly and Wexford weren't better when they weren't playing Kilkenny, but it's disingenuous to say they got no run out at all.
Tipp and Kilkenny are both facing tough enough questions because the likes of Waterford and Cork have had good, hard, games recently and they've both been idle. But I don't think Tipperary were that much more stretched than Kilkenny in winning the Munster to be honest.
Clare should have had a penalty, no question. But other than that, I dont think they have a lot to complain about. I always had the feeling that Cork were two or three points a better team once O'Sullivan went off. So I'm not sure if Clare would have win even if they got that penalty. Alas, We shall never know.
Do Cork not have any subs in the backs? They have to do some amount of switches just to change their full back. I would be a little uncertain of Gardiner at full back as well.
They dont seem to have too many options in the backs for sure Gal and whatever is on the bench it doesn't look like they have a lot of faith in them based on the switches from the last few days. Gardiner to FB, Kenny to wing back and Naughton to midfield seems to be the standard changes when the rock departs. Naughton seems to thrive in the open spaces of midfield and may not be a corner forward after all. If they start the rock v KK, its curtins for them. Will be interesting to see how theu line up for sure.
Two great games in store -
Will they play one of the semis in Thurles ?
No point taking Cork and Kilkenny to Croker ! There'll not be 10k at it !
Is your man Cadogan not meant to be useful?
However I don't see anyone, to my knowledge anyway, who'd be a "natural" full-back. Gardiner is a half-back/midfielder and while he can do a job to an extent in there he'd be better out the field.
On the evidence of the last 2 games a half back line of Kenny, Curren and O'Hailpin, with Gardiner at full back, is better than Gardiner, Curran and O'Hailpin with O'Sullivan at full back.
Agree AZ, Sully surely can't be trusted to start against the Cats ???
I really liked Sully down the years but has Father time called to him ?? It seemed Gerald was very reluctant to take him off !
Had Cork been beat y'day Gerald would have rightly come in for a lot of criticism for not taking hom off earlier !
What age is he?
I'm not saying that Sully hasn't been slipping because unfortunately he has, but it wasn't just him yesterday. The half back line for the first half was being pulled out, almost to midfield. That left the back line very exposed. It's true that he's slipping but a lot of what happened yesterday was a bit circumstantial. That said though I wouldn't be too confident about starting him, I just think he's getting a bit too much criticism then he deserves.
I don't want to split up the Tom and Jerry pairing, we'll need them against KK. It's one of our best lines in our team. If we really want to get our running game going we'll need them in there doing at their best. Midfield is a place where we can dominate against KK if we get it right. Putting Gaa FB works well but I don't want to pull back Kenny into the HB line because it'll break up the pairing and I don't know how effective Naughton will be for 70 mins in the centre. He's more effective roaming around the place up left corner forward he can make an impact all right there but he wont be as affective playing the full 70.
It'll be interesting to see what happens.
For me the next day Cork should start with :
Cusack
O'Neill Gardiner Murphy
Kenny Curran O' Hailpin
Naughton Gerry O'Connor
Cronin Timmy McCarthy Ben O'Connor
Horgan Ronan Deane
Gardiner is not a natural full back but at least he is hurling confidently at the moment, something which Sully seems to be lacking.
He has a good hand on him and a bit of cut.
To beat Kilkenny we'll need trunning game going at it's best.
Naughton's running with the ball is second to none. Not only is he as fast as lightning he has good vision and always seem to take the right option.
He was fairly quiet to my mind when stuck in corner forward whereas out midfield he was getting on to breaks.
Horgan looks a natural at this stage with a sure touch.
I can't see Niall being picked for the Kilkenny match. He gave Gerry Quinn the freedom of the park the last day.
Was Deane injured last Sunday - he looked to be struggling - Cork will really put it up to KK - Sully being cleaned out - Deane not at the races - Niall not going well - and they still win !
I can't see Deane starting. McCarthy has shown he can be ruthless when in comes to selection. Joe will start on the bench.
i can't see that cork team beating kilkenny. especially with kilkenny at full strength the next day.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2008, 09:54:15 PM
i can't see that cork team beating kilkenny. especially with kilkenny at full strength the next day.
Wexford weren't expected to beat Down today - in fact, they destroyed them - Wicklow weren't expected to beat Kildare earlier in the year.
I'd have to agree with you and say that Kilkenny should win alright but it's no certainty.