http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7342574.stm
Steven Gerard :o how??
Twenty odd goals from midfield, that is "how!.......Mmmmm i feel another Man Utd/Liverpool "my d*ck is bigger than yours" type thread coming.........Mine is bigger by the way.
gerard has not had his best season, but he has still managed twenty odd goals. not bad for a midfielder.
Thought Robbie Keane merited a nomination for his consistency and phenomenal goalscoring form all season...then again he doesn't play for one of the euphemistically named "Big Four" >:(
ferdinand, vidic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FFS Tony, Keane isnt even close to making the list......
Ronaldo to walk away with both again
Torres second in both categories
Couldn't argue with that Hurl.
IF....and it's an If....Chelsea won the league, would it be the first time ever that the league winners have no nominees in either category? I think it says a lot about the 'team' ethic when no indivdual is worthy of a nomination.
BTW...what age is Torres?
He must be 23 or younger as he is in the Young Player catagory.
Ronaldo should win both Hurl, but if the Scousers win the CL & Torres leads the way there could be a shock
I though Torres was 26, or 27...
....makes his signing even more astute!
Torres is just gone 24
torres turned 24 the week before Easter.
Ronaldo has been miles ahead of any1 this season. Torres doesn't diserve to win
Quote from: full back on April 11, 2008, 04:25:53 PM
He must be 23 or younger as he is in the Young Player catagory.
Ronaldo should win both Hurl, but if the Scousers win the CL & Torres leads the way there could be a shock
the voting will take place before that
In my opinion those players playing consistently well in underperforming teams (ie Robbie Keane) are more worthy of mention than those who perform sporadically in so called bigger clubs but get more media focus. he certainly is more worthy of a nomination than Calamity James >:(
Keane scored two goals against the potential European Champions at Anfield this season in a team that was struggling profusely at the time, something which no Arsenal or Man Ure player achieved ;D
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 11, 2008, 04:31:12 PM
the voting will take place before that
In that case Ronaldo is a shoo-in for both
Have to say David James has been outstanding this season & is a major factor in Pompey getting to the FA Cup Final and finishing so high in the League.
Keane would struggle to get in the Top 10 players in the PL this season
But united and arsenal didnt get beat in the league
Fabregas was POTY until his injury in December.
Er neither Did Spurs. We drew 2-2, and Liverpool only equalised in injury time.Oh how the Goons would have settled for a similar score last Tuesday ;D
Flabbyass showed on Tuesday night that he can't handle the big occasion
Keane has scored 20 odd goals this season but he misses a sitter every game
Quote from: T Fearon on April 11, 2008, 04:38:09 PM
Er neither Did Spurs. We drew 2-2, and Liverpool only equalised in injury time.Oh how the Goons would have settled for a similar score last Tuesday ;D
Little amuses the innocent ::)
Mr Keane doesnt exactly handle the big occasion either.........
keane had a better season than Stevie G.. the most over hyped player in premiership history
Quote from: T Fearon on April 11, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
In my opinion those players playing consistently well in underperforming teams (ie Robbie Keane) are more worthy of mention than those who perform sporadically in so called bigger clubs but get more media focus. he certainly is more worthy of a nomination than Calamity James >:(
Are you saying Portsmouth are a bigger club than Spurs?
i'd say it will be ronaldo for the main prize
then torres for the young player. Fabregas has gone off the boil since christmas so i dont think he will feature. But he will get in the team of the year along wth Adebayor
James
Richards Ferdinand Vidic ?
? ? Cesc Ronaldo
Torres Adebayor
Quote from: ildanach on April 11, 2008, 04:46:58 PM
i'd say it will be ronaldo for the main prize
then torres for the young player.
If Ronaldo gets the main prize wouldnt that mean he almost certainly has to get the Young Player prize?
I'd imagine if you are the best player in the league, and a certain age, you also have to be the best young player in the league ???
Id imagine Lescott would be in with a shout for the team of the year.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 11, 2008, 04:39:30 PM
Flabbyass showed on Tuesday night that he can't handle the big occasion
You might be right. He scored a screamer against the Spuds at Shite Fart Lane in the league but sure that's not a big occasion anymore.
Richard Dunne is extremely unlucky' the united pair will form the centre of the defence but Dunne has been outstanding and merited a nomination. richards has played centre half all season so can he now be selected at right back?
Quote from: ONeill on April 11, 2008, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 11, 2008, 04:39:30 PM
Flabbyass showed on Tuesday night that he can't handle the big occasion
You might be right. He scored a screamer against the Spuds at Shite Fart Lane in the league but sure that's not a big occasion anymore.
:D
Quote from: T O Hare on April 11, 2008, 04:44:14 PM
keane had a better season than Stevie G.. the most over hyped player in premiership history
go on outta that T O Hare, quit your stirring.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 11, 2008, 04:18:47 PM
euphemistically named "Big Four" >:(
How is "Big Four" a euphemism?
QuoteIf Ronaldo gets the main prize wouldnt that mean he almost certainly has to get the Young Player prize?
I think (and I'm open to corection) that they have a system for the voting which makes it extremely difficult to win both. Ronaldo managed it last year but I think that was because he was so far ahead in the voting.
To be honest I don't think Young Player of the Year awards should be for established players like Ronaldo. Think it should be limited to under 23s who are in their first season (or first season starting a certain of games)
I dont think you should be allowed to win both the same year -
James
Sagna/Richards
Ferdinand
Vidic
Clichy
Ronaldo
Fabregas
Gerrard
Kuyt
Torres
Adebayor
Quote from: Minder on April 11, 2008, 09:37:40 PM
I dont think you should be allowed to win both the same year -
Why not?
I just think the young player category should be for an "up and coming" player and i think someone said earlier that established players should be excluded.
Quote from: Uladh on April 11, 2008, 10:18:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 11, 2008, 09:37:40 PM
I dont think you should be allowed to win both the same year -
Why not?
What's the point?
The main prize is the big one. Plus, Ronaldo is in his fifth season in the league with a season in the Portuguese league before that. He's a highly experienced player. Give the recognition to someone who just started within the last year or two. They should reserve the young player award for under 20s or 21s.
Team of the year:
James
Sagna
Ferdinand
Dunne
Evra
Gerrard
Fabregas
Mascherano
Ronaldo
Torres
Adebayor
1. James
2. Brown
3. Clichy
4. Ferdinand
5. Vidic
6. Fabregas
7. Ronaldo
8. Gerrard
9. Torres
10. Adebayor
11. J.Cole
I think this would be pretty close. People seem to forget how consistent Wes Brown has been this season. Bar James I can't see any other 'Non big four' reps.
Wes Brown? ? ? are you still under the influence from last night ?
Quote from: Minder on April 12, 2008, 10:40:40 AM
Wes Brown? ? ? are you still under the influence from last night ?
No. He's been consistent over the season and merits an inclusion on the basis of that. Both Richards/Sagna were promiment at the start of the season but both incurred injuries/loss of form since the new year. It's only my opinion. I could just as easily question your inclusion of Kuyt...now you really are having a laugh! The same Kuyt whom the majority of Liverpool fans were lambasting at the start of the season.
I was taking the piss with Kuyt though,i thought everyone would know that. United have a strong defence in spite of Brown not because of him and i dont think too many United fans would be bothered if he left in the summer
I'd go for (in 4-4-2)
James
Sagna
Dunne
Vidic
Clichy
Scholes
Fabregas
Hargreaves
Ronaldo
Torres
Adebayor
Quote from: Minder on April 12, 2008, 01:35:45 PM
I was taking the piss with Kuyt though,i thought everyone would know that. United have a strong defence in spite of Brown not because of him and i dont think too many United fans would be bothered if he left in the summer
Your in right in saying that Utd have a strong defense in spite of Brown but nevertheless I think he's been solid for us this season and defo merits some consideration for that right back spot. Personally I'd like him to say...think he's been offered more than enough with regard contract terms but if he leaves, he leaves.
don't see how you can include richard dunne. a good defender no doubt but after man city's capitulation this season i cannot see it. same goes for micah richards. 6 pfa award nominees and 5 more round them
1. David James
2. Bacary Sagna
3. Joleon Lescott
4. Javier Mascherano/Paul Scholes
5. Jamie Carragher/Rio Ferdinand
6. Nemanja Vidic
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Steven Gerrard
9. Fernando Torres
10. Emmanuel Adebayor
11. Cesc Fabregas/Gareth Barry
Dunne isn't a one-man team. Carragher has been average enough by his standards this season.
Quote from: tintin25 on April 12, 2008, 10:31:17 AM
1. James
2. Brown
3. Clichy
4. Ferdinand
5. Vidic
6. Fabregas
7. Ronaldo
8. Gerrard
9. Torres
10. Adebayor
11. J.Cole
How the f**k would joe cole get in team of the year? What exactly has he done?
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2008, 05:19:38 AM
The main prize is the big one. Plus, Ronaldo is in his fifth season in the league with a season in the Portuguese league before that. He's a highly experienced player. Give the recognition to someone who just started within the last year or two. They should reserve the young player award for under 20s or 21s
Thats right, change the rules when you don't like the outcome. that's an old strategy.
4-3-3
1. James
2. Toure
3. Clichy
4. Ferdinand
5. Vidic
6. Mascherano
7. Scholes
8. Fabregas
9. Torres
10. Rooney
11. Ronaldo
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2008, 02:49:11 PM
Dunne isn't a one-man team. Carragher has been average enough by his standards this season.
That's right its not all dunne's fault but i don't think you could argue for his inclusion ahead of any of the three central defenders i have mentioned.There are other players in middle tier teams who are good defenders and have been capable of great performances at times but their failure in comparison to the top 4 means players playing dor the top four will get picked out first. Other notable defenders this season include martin laursen sylvin distin and micah richards.
It is no coincidence that the best players play for the top clubs. You can claim that a player warrants inclusion based on their performances for a poor team but it is difficult to assess their contribution in comparison to those at the top clubs who generally play more games and perform consistently week in week out.
On Carragher, never a player to do anything outlandish but for reliability, defensive awareness and importance to the team he rarely fails to deliver. He is without doubt one of the most consistent in the league. However, i feel Man U's season will probably get ferdinand the nod!
Dunne could be a relatively cheap (it is wenger we're talking about) answer to arsenal's problems
Quote from: gawa316 on April 12, 2008, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on April 12, 2008, 10:31:17 AM
1. James
2. Brown
3. Clichy
4. Ferdinand
5. Vidic
6. Fabregas
7. Ronaldo
8. Gerrard
9. Torres
10. Adebayor
11. J.Cole
How the f**k would joe cole get in team of the year? What exactly has he done?
Ok, perhaps it was a panic inclusion to fill that left side of midfield berth but he hasn't been too bad. Although, he prob only started to hit some form in the new year.
Quote from: Uladh on April 12, 2008, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2008, 05:19:38 AM
The main prize is the big one. Plus, Ronaldo is in his fifth season in the league with a season in the Portuguese league before that. He's a highly experienced player. Give the recognition to someone who just started within the last year or two. They should reserve the young player award for under 20s or 21s
Thats right, change the rules when you don't like the outcome. that's an old strategy.
My opinion has nothing to do with Ronaldo or Man Utd (does yours?). I don't think Torres should have been nominated for the young player award either. So spare me your patronizing horseshit.
I presume you've offered this opinion ervery other year so.
ypoty is u23 and reasonably so in my opinion. With the money and foreigners flocking into the premiership, younger players are getting into first teams later and later. the age ceiling has to allow a reasonable number of candidates to make it an any way worthwhile award. every so often an extraordinary young talent will double up the awards but they are once in a generation and the ypoty award is well merited by Ronaldo.
horseshit is dependent on the individual pallet, though a dish with which you are well acquainted.
Quote from: Uladh on April 12, 2008, 04:07:06 PM
I presume you've offered this opinion ervery other year so.
ypoty is u23 and reasonably so in my opinion. With the money and foreigners flocking into the premiership, younger players are getting into first teams later and later. the age ceiling has to allow a reasonable number of candidates to make it an any way worthwhile award. every so often an extraordinary young talent will double up the awards but they are once in a generation and the ypoty award is well merited by Ronaldo.
I haven't offered that opinion in this particular forum, to my recollection, but yes, that has been my view.
I accept your point on the age ceiling with regards players making the breakthrough later and later, but a lad who has been a high-profile player at a top club for five years and a shoo-in for the main award should not get the young award too. Ronaldo has moved far beyond consideration for the young player award.
Quote from: Uladh on April 12, 2008, 04:07:06 PM
horseshit is dependent on the individual pallet, though a dish with which you are well acquainted.
Well if that is the case, you should feel free to correct to me any time you feel I am talking shite. I am well able and willing to defend my opinions. I don't recall you ever raising an objection to anything I've said before though...
1.james-hugely consistent again this season helping pompey get 2 cup final and a good season in the league
2.johnson- key member of a consistent pompey defence. has added defensive stability to his game. no real o/standing prformer for this position!
3.lescott- weighed in with a number of key goals and a key player in evertons push for champions league
4. fabregas- was putting pressure on ronaldo for player of the year b4 going off the boil in recent months
5. ferdinand- part of a water tight defence
6. vidic- great signing you always know when he is missing
7. ronaldo- best player in world at min say no more-
8. gerrard- formed a great partnership with torres this season.20 goals from midfield hard to compete with
9. torres- best striker in the league.money well spent
10. adebayor- similiar to fabregas great 1st half of season but has fallen away.19 league goals a good return
11. barry- the driving force behiond another good season for midlands club. chelsea rumoured to be monitoring the situation
if bacary sagna isnt picked at right back on the pfa team i will be astounded,been fantastic all season for arsenal until a recent injury,easily the best right back in the premiership.evra also been very good for utd at left back,much better player than joleon lescott
Anyone who has Toure in their team for 07/08 has no interest in/knowledge of soccer. Easily his poorest Arsenal season.
ha ha o'neill - a credible effort at clawing back some of the deconstruction you suffered in the discussion on the gooners thread...
Two things - I don't think you understand the word deconstruction. Also, when reasoning with a dimwit, one needs to step away.
James
Johnson
Ferdinand
Vidic
Lescott
Fabregas
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Cole
Adebayor
Torres
Ronaldo for one award and Torres the other.
Quote from: ONeill on April 13, 2008, 01:06:46 PM
Two things - I don't think you understand the word deconstruction. Also, when reasoning with a dimwit, one needs to step away.
No law against thinking sir.
We don't decide the criteria for young player of the year. I would be in agreement that it should be for someone who has came onto the scene and is not in their 4th/5th season at a club, but thats not the case. Ronaldo only turned 23 so he is entitled to be nominated, and he should win both as previously stated because how can he win the player of the year without also winning young player. If Adebayor is nominated for player of the year then how is he not in the running for young player of the year?
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 14, 2008, 09:16:55 AM
We don't decide the criteria for young player of the year. I would be in agreement that it should be for someone who has came onto the scene and is not in their 4th/5th season at a club, but thats not the case. Ronaldo only turned 23 so he is entitled to be nominated, and he should win both as previously stated because how can he win the player of the year without also winning young player. If Adebayor is nominated for player of the year then how is he not in the running for young player of the year?
It's a bit f**ked up alright. These awards have always been watery. They should clearly communicate how, where and when people are eligable. I think voting takes place in Jan too. Can they not have text voting amongst PFA members in mid April or something?
Ronaldo won the PFA player of the year awards. Thankfully common sense prevailed and Fabregas took the young player award.
Premiership team:
David James (Portsmouth), Bacary Sagna (Arsenal), Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd), Nemanja Vidic (Man Utd), Gael Clichy (Arsenal), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal), Cristiano Ronaldo (Man Utd), Ashley Young (Aston Villa), Emmanuel Adebayor (Arsenal), Fernando Torres (Liverpool).
And not a Chelsea player in sight. They really have snuck up unnoticed over the past few months!
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2008, 10:13:55 PM
Ronaldo won the PFA player of the year awards. Thankfully common sense prevailed and Fabregas took the young player award.
Premiership team:
David James (Portsmouth), Bacary Sagna (Arsenal), Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd), Nemanja Vidic (Man Utd), Gael Clichy (Arsenal), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal), Cristiano Ronaldo (Man Utd), Ashley Young (Aston Villa), Emmanuel Adebayor (Arsenal), Fernando Torres (Liverpool).
Vidic, Torres and Ronaldo are the best three players in the premiership, gerrard shows up about once every three to four weeks and should not be near the best. Chelsea can feel aggrieved.
Gerrard has hardly been shit. I'm not arguing that a strong case couldn't be made for other players to be put in the selection ahead of him, even from Liverpool, but he still has had a good season. It is his opponents on the field who voted for him, so he can't have been that bad, but maybe Gerrard is a bit like Beckham or Giggs used to be in getting selected year after year.
Quote from: AFS on April 28, 2008, 12:48:23 AM
In fairness, few Chelsea players stood out this year. Big players like Terry, Cech, Lampard, Drogba and Carvalho have been missing for large parts of the season. They really have just been quietly efficient in the last few months. At a stretch maybe Essien could have been included but it would have been hard to leave out Fabregas, and it seems that Gerrard has a permanent place in any 'team of the year' selection regardless of how shit he plays.
That's probably fair enough. Chelsea's problem has been that the amount of injuries, and ANC has meant that no one has played enough games up to the voting time. Joe Cole has made most starts (27), Ashley Cole (26), Kalou (24), and Cech (24) following.
Essien has been dire, bar the last few weeks.
Carvalho has been fair and away our outstanding performer.
QuoteI know Gerrard hasn't been bad this season. The point I was trying to make was that if he has a decent enough season, such as this one (when he's been good but not spectacular), he'll always get the nod ahead of other lower profile players that have had equally good seasons. For example this season I think that Gerrard has been chosen on reputation ahead of Barry, Bentley and Essien (maybe even Flamini, Muntari and Hleb too).
Very true. Barry in particular has been impressive.
QuoteRonaldo won the PFA player of the year awards. Thankfully common sense prevailed and Fabregas took the young player award.
Don't agree. Ronaldo was voted as the best player and on that he is also the best young player!
They should take a leaf out of American Sports for this, and only allow 'rookies' for the young player of the year. Rookies in America are first year players, but you coulld have a an eligibilty rule for soccer that if you have played more than 50 games or something in your career before the start of the season, you are not eligible.
QuoteThey should take a leaf out of American Sports for this, and only allow 'rookies' for the young player of the year. Rookies in America are first year players, but you coulld have a an eligibilty rule for soccer that if you have played more than 50 games or something in your career before the start of the season, you are not eligible.
Yeah, would be a better method for sure.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 28, 2008, 10:22:29 AM
QuoteRonaldo won the PFA player of the year awards. Thankfully common sense prevailed and Fabregas took the young player award.
Don't agree. Ronaldo was voted as the best player and on that he is also the best young player!
He's been playing in the premier league since August 2003 and had a year in the Portuguese league before that. I think he's transcended the "young player" category at this stage.
I agree that there should be a game limit on the Young Player, but I am baffled as to how you can win the Player Of The Year award & not the Young Player award
QuoteHe's been playing in the premier league since August 2003 and had a year in the Portuguese league before that. I think he's transcended the "young player" category at this stage.
Nobody is debating that, and he is younger than Torres who was also nominated. Fabregas has been around a while too - as full back said it is baffling that you can win the big one and not the young one aswell.
Fabregas hasn't been playing top-level football for six seasons. Torres has been playing top-level football as long as Ronaldo, so I don't think he should be in the young category either. There has to be some level of common sense in the selection of these type of players.
Quotemaybe Gerrard is a bit like Beckham or Giggs used to be in getting selected year after year.
A bit the same except for the insignificant little matter of the other two contributing to a team that was winning the league. Gerrard's selection is a joke really but typical of the culture of hype that saurrounds some English players. Essien or Barry for starters were miles ahead of him.
And how a player can win POTY but not win Young POTY - well soccer players were never known for their intellect were they?
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 02:09:53 PM
Quotemaybe Gerrard is a bit like Beckham or Giggs used to be in getting selected year after year.
A bit the same except for the insignificant little matter of the other two contributing to a team that was winning the league. Gerrard's selection is a joke really but typical of the culture of hype that saurrounds some English players. Essien or Barry for starters were miles ahead of him.
You're claiming Beckham was never selected ahead of others based on past-reputation?
Giggs has been blowing hot and cold for more than ten years. For every masterclass against Porto or Arsenal there were three games where he was hardly seen.
the criteria is for the awards is set out whether we agree with them or not. Discussing whether a player shoud get the award based on his past experience is nonsense for this discussion ( but does deserve another) and its absolute bullshit to say ronaldo doesnt deserve the young player when he is eligible.
I have never said he doesn't deserve it. I have said that it is ridiculous and pointless that he is even considered for it. He has surpassed it.
QuoteYou're claiming Beckham was never selected ahead of others based on past-reputation?
Er, no.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 02:09:53 PM
Quotemaybe Gerrard is a bit like Beckham or Giggs used to be in getting selected year after year.
A bit the same except for the insignificant little matter of the other two contributing to a team that was winning the league. Gerrard's selection is a joke really but typical of the culture of hype that saurrounds some English players. Essien or Barry for starters were miles ahead of him.
Just to blow away this particular myth that Gerrard has been awful this season with some cold hard facts in comparison to some of the others who certain people are clamouring for to be recognised ahead of him. Mainly it seems on the basis that they are not Steven Gerrard.
Gerrard has scored 11 goals and has 11 assists in the league this season.
Barry has 8 goals and 10 assists (most of which have come in his last 4 games well after voting has finished).
Bentley has 6 goals and 9 assists.
Hleb 2 goals and 7 assists.
And even our resident Chelsea fan has said that Essien has only started playing well in the last few weeks!
Overall Gerrard has scored 22 goals this season in all competitions. Only one less than the 23 he scored in 2005/06 when he was thought to have had a brilliant season. Granted I know fans of a certain unmentionable club would rather admit to male sodomy ahead of giving Gerrard any credit whatsoever.
Gerrard has spent the best part of the season playing as a second striker in which case you should compare his goal/assists with say Yakubu or Santa Cruz rather than Bentley or Barry. Barry played half the game at left back yesterday and still got two assists!
Gerrard is not playing as a second striker. He is playing as an attacking midfielder. I'm not sure if any other team play a similar formation, but he is not a 'striker' as such.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2008, 04:05:32 PM
Gerrard is not playing as a second striker. He is playing as an attacking midfielder. I'm not sure if any other team play a similar formation, but he is not a 'striker' as such.
I am not fishing, but what are Lampard's stats in comparison? I'd guess they'd be comparable, and with less games. Lampard has had a good season but not a great one.
Quote from: slow corner back on April 28, 2008, 04:03:40 PM
Gerrard has spent the best part of the season playing as a second striker in which case you should compare his goal/assists with say Yakubu or Santa Cruz rather than Bentley or Barry. Barry played half the game at left back yesterday and still got two assists!
Do you watch football at all?
He's not a midfielder either AZ so GBB's comparison using only goals and assists is pointless. By that rationale he's better than Fabregas as well. :o
Lampard would be similar, certainly. What is Chelsea's typical formation? Drogba up, and Essien/Ballack/Makelele/Lampard making a 3 in the middle with Lampard in the Gerrard role? I would say he's more or less the same role and type of player for Chelsea as Gerrard is for Liverpool.
He has been playing in the hole behind Torres since christmas with the freedom to roam. He is essentially playing a number 10 role like Rooney used to do for Man U when Ruud was at centre forward or like countless other number 10s over the years.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 28, 2008, 04:08:10 PM
Quote from: slow corner back on April 28, 2008, 04:03:40 PM
Gerrard has spent the best part of the season playing as a second striker in which case you should compare his goal/assists with say Yakubu or Santa Cruz rather than Bentley or Barry. Barry played half the game at left back yesterday and still got two assists!
Do you watch football at all?
I watch enough to know the difference between a holding midfielder, Barry, and a player in a free role with the team built round him, Gerrard.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 04:09:48 PM
He's not a midfielder either AZ so GBB's comparison using only goals and assists is pointless. By that rationale he's better than Fabregas as well. :o
I wasn't really talking about GBB's stats. I was just saying that he is not a striker, as such. He is an attacking midfielder, as I mentioned, which is basically a midfielder with a responsibility to be getting around the box when Liverpool attack, without having all the responsibilities in terms of playmaking, controlling the game and tackling that a real midfielder has.
My point about him being picked in a team like this is that it's hard to pigeon hole him as a midfielder, or as a striker, because he's kind of half and half.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
Lampard would be similar, certainly. What is Chelsea's typical formation? Drogba up, and Essien/Ballack/Makelele/Lampard making a 3 in the middle with Lampard in the Gerrard role? I would say he's more or less the same role and type of player for Chelsea as Gerrard is for Liverpool.
I am agreeing with you. I think their roles are fairly similar, and so too their stats. However Lampard has not had a great season, so stats are not the be all and end all of the arguement.
Quote from: slow corner back on April 28, 2008, 04:11:06 PM
He has been playing in the hole behind Torres since christmas with the freedom to roam. He is essentially playing a number 10 role like Rooney used to do for Man U when Ruud was at centre forward or like countless other number 10s over the years.
But he hasn't slow corner back, certainly not in the mould of a Bergkamp or anything like that. He tends to operate from halfway to around the edge of the oppositions half of the centre circle, and breaks from there.
You are correct though, in that he has freedom to do the things he's supposed to be good at, but that does not include the role of a second striker, or 'off the front man'. He was deployed in that role a couple of times last year, and it didn't suit him at all either.
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on April 28, 2008, 04:15:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
Lampard would be similar, certainly. What is Chelsea's typical formation? Drogba up, and Essien/Ballack/Makelele/Lampard making a 3 in the middle with Lampard in the Gerrard role? I would say he's more or less the same role and type of player for Chelsea as Gerrard is for Liverpool.
I am agreeing with you. I think their roles are fairly similar, and so too their stats. However Lampard has not had a great season, so stats are not the be all and end all of the arguement.
Certainly. Why are people going on to me about Gerrard's stats? I'm not the one who raised them :D I'm simply pointing out he is not a striker, nor a traditional midfielder. That's all :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2008, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on April 28, 2008, 04:15:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
Lampard would be similar, certainly. What is Chelsea's typical formation? Drogba up, and Essien/Ballack/Makelele/Lampard making a 3 in the middle with Lampard in the Gerrard role? I would say he's more or less the same role and type of player for Chelsea as Gerrard is for Liverpool.
I am agreeing with you. I think their roles are fairly similar, and so too their stats. However Lampard has not had a great season, so stats are not the be all and end all of the arguement.
Certainly. Why are people going on to me about Gerrard's stats? I'm not the one who raised them :D I'm simply pointing out he is not a striker, nor a traditional midfielder. That's all :D
Sorry AZ....misread earlier!
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on April 28, 2008, 04:15:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
Lampard would be similar, certainly. What is Chelsea's typical formation? Drogba up, and Essien/Ballack/Makelele/Lampard making a 3 in the middle with Lampard in the Gerrard role? I would say he's more or less the same role and type of player for Chelsea as Gerrard is for Liverpool.
I am agreeing with you. I think their roles are fairly similar, and so too their stats. However Lampard has not had a great season, so stats are not the be all and end all of the arguement.
Lampard has 10 goals and 8 assists although Derby was a fair help to him in collecting a heap of those goals in one game. ;)
Either way I knew as soon as the stats were posted that the next response would be "well he's not really a midfielder anyway". Well he's definitely not a striker. He's an attacking midfielder. The stats merely highlighted the nonsense of saying such and such a player has been vastly superior to him this season. I don't think it's been Gerrard's best season but he's still been very good overall.
QuoteThe stats merely highlighted the nonsense of saying such and such a player has been vastly superior to him this season
No they didn't.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 04:43:02 PM
QuoteThe stats merely highlighted the nonsense of saying such and such a player has been vastly superior to him this season
No they didn't.
Yes they did. Yah boo. ;D
I think its clear from the comments of the other posters on this thread that the stats proved nothing.
Na na na na na!
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 05:07:42 PM
I think its clear from the comments of the other posters on this thread that the stats proved nothing.
I wouldn't expect anything less from Man U fans re: Gerrard.
If he hit 40 goals in a season he'd still be getting it. ;D
Besides it's all immaterial as the teams and awards and voted on by those who he plays against every week.
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
I have never said he doesn't deserve it. I have said that it is ridiculous and pointless that he is even considered for it. He has surpassed it.
What is ridiculious is the fact he didnt get the award if he is eligable for it. I agree that he shouldnt be but if he was he should have won it.
QuoteI wouldn't expect anything less from Man U fans re: Gerrard
Well you don't see anyone questioning Torres place on the team or maybe Manchester United fans are wrong about him too? Its not just cos of who he plays for. Lampard is the same - hugely over rated.
Quote from: ludermor on April 28, 2008, 05:18:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
I have never said he doesn't deserve it. I have said that it is ridiculous and pointless that he is even considered for it. He has surpassed it.
What is ridiculious is the fact he didnt get the award if he is eligable for it. I agree that he shouldnt be but if he was he should have won it.
I'd say most players nominated him for the senior award and just went with one of the others for the young player award.
That's what I would do anyway.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 03:21:15 PM
QuoteYou're claiming Beckham was never selected ahead of others based on past-reputation?
Er, no.
Ok. So apart from being on a championship-winning team (which does not mean you're the best in your position), what is the difference between that and Gerrard getting the award this season?
Between what? Name the year and the player in question that we are comparing with.
Clichy v Evra was a 50/50. Clichy's pre-March form swung it for him.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 28, 2008, 11:01:54 PM
Between what? Name the year and the player in question that we are comparing with.
You quoted what I asked. What is the difference between Beckham getting the nomination based on past reputation and Gerrard getting it this year? It can't just be playing on a championship-winning team.
I'm not going to spend an hour trawling through the stats to find out which seasons in the past ten years Beckham or Giggs or whoever from whatever club might have got a nomination ahead of other more worthy candidates. If Gerrard is, in your opinion, one of the few to benefit from hype or reputation in this manner, fine.
Clearly Gerrard isn't the only overhyped player there is or has been in the Premiership over the years. I would suggest though that picking Giggs and Beckham are bad examples though, certainly Beckham in his United days. Up until Beckhams last season he was extremely effective in the Premiership, only getting found out in big European matches. Giggs - well its only in the last couple of seasons that his worth is less than the hype/past achievements and I don't think he's made the PFA team for some time.
The point about the team winning/competing for championships is this - every time players on those teams go out they have to do the business and they generally were. 8 or 10 good games a season is not enough.
Hope i've explained my points. Don't expect everyone will agree but that is my thinking on it.
Fair enough. I thought Beckham was never the same after about 2000/1 when he started to get away from what made him so effective i.e. delivering crosses from out wide. Giggs, in my opinion, has been far too erratic for many years. Even his tour de force performances, such as the one at OT against Porto when he played through the middle, or that goal against Arsenal, came during periods when his overall form was very inconsistent. At least that's my recollection of it.
As for players on challenging teams having to provide consistent performances, yes, that is obviously true, but at the same time, a drop in form may not be highlighted so much when the overall team is playing well.
Don't think we disagree too much. We'll leave it at that!
QuoteClichy v Evra was a 50/50.
I dunno Shane, I think you're being kind. I'd have thought Clichy won it by a mile.