Is this a fair match-up?
Kerry perhaps had greater individuals but as a collective team I feel Crossmaglen are now superior outfit, the greatest side in the history of Gaelic Football.
you mean in a match? as in the kerry intercounty team versus a club side?
are you serious?
are you seriously deluded?
Quote from: ONeill on November 25, 2007, 04:24:15 PM
Is this a fair match-up?
Kerry perhaps had greater individuals but as a collective team I feel Crossmaglen are now superior outfit, the greatest side in the history of Gaelic Football.
eeehhhhhhh .... are you serious ?
That Kerry team ... well .. how can you put something like that into words ? The definition of talent and class.
Sorry man, Cross as a club side versus that Kerry team ? Lucky to be within 30 points of them.
What a thread!! - you must be bored today O'Neill
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Oisin himself wouldn't even make that Kerry squad!!
Anyway, Nemo Rangers are more succesful than Cross (13 Munster Clubs & 7 All-Irelands - between 72-73 and 88-89 they won 9 Cork titles, 8 Munsters & 5 All-Irelands)
Cross might beat antrim if antrim had a bad day but other than that any current county team in ulster would beat cross or any other club team. The difference in standard betweeen club and county football is huge.
Maybe you meant the best club? There were only 3 players playing today who played on cross' first all ireland team so it could hardly be thought of as the same team?
But sure you were only joking oneill.... ;)
Is there drink involved here O'Neill :)
What about that club in Donegal that won something like 18 county hurling titiles in a row. Surely they deserve to be compared to the Cork 3 in a row team in the 70's or some of the great Kilkenny and Tipp teams ;D
Crossmaglen are the greatest side ever at any level.
Quote from: ONeill on November 25, 2007, 04:50:44 PM
Crossmaglen are the greatest side ever at any level.
Definitiely drink involved!!! Sure its Christmas time. Maybe you could put together a bit of a ballad on the deeds of Cross O'Neill
Didn't Joe Kernan do his damnedest to play Cross as the Armagh county team, and look where that got them! ;)
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 25, 2007, 04:30:28 PM
they still rely heavily on Oisin.
Oisin din't touch leather against Dromore and they still won.
You have to admit Cross are something special.
In their respestive levels of competition it's a good argument.
Cross, undoubtedly the greatst club in the history of the GAA!
as someone said earlier nemo are more successful
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on November 25, 2007, 04:42:47 PM
Cross might beat antrim if antrim had a bad day but other than that any current county team in ulster would beat cross or any other club team. The difference in standard betweeen club and county football is huge.
Maybe you meant the best club? There were only 3 players playing today who played on cross' first all ireland team so it could hardly be thought of as the same team?
But sure you were only joking oneill.... ;)
I think today proved they'd beat Antrim.
Well I suppose the Kerry players are between 45-55 and are nearly all crippled so Cross would have a good chance!!!
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 25, 2007, 05:37:40 PM
Well I suppose the Kerry players are between 45-55 and are nearly all crippled so Cross would have a good chance!!!
They'd still need a 10 point start.
This is like comparing good wine with average porter.
Would Spillane's granny still be fit for Francie? :L
I believe you are all misinterpreting. ONeill means who is the greatest in their respected circumstances.
Any merit to entering Cross in the Tommy Murphy cup to liven it up a bit. :P
Quote from: corn02 on November 25, 2007, 04:50:44 PM
I believe you are all misinterpreting. ONeill means who is the greatest in their respected circumstances
Really??
Quote from: ONeill on November 25, 2007, 04:50:44 PM
Crossmaglen are the greatest side ever at any level.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I believe he means the greatest team at any level as in no one at any level is better, does not mean Cross would beat the Kerry side.
Did St Mary's not beat cross in a friendly just a month or so ago? O'Neill's On the Pure wind up
Crossmaglen have won 20-odd consecutive finals at county, provincial and All-Ireland level against the best in their field. They're playing against champions of other counties and provinces. Throw into the mix Armagh's lengthy campaigns from 1999-onwards, usually backboned by 4-5 Cross men. This generation of Crossmaglen is the greatest footballing institution assembled in the history of the game. At any level. Kerry, as remarkable as they were over a period of 11 years, excelled when there was absolutely nothing in Ulster, Connaght was dire whilst Dublin were the only competitive side in Ireland (though for 3 years Offaly matched their level).
wouldnt be too really well up on cross but surely if ye matched the players o'neills arguement would be over.
jesus like what is going on here?
Quote from: blasmere on November 25, 2007, 04:36:43 PM
What a thread!! - you must be bored today O'Neill
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Oisin himself wouldn't even make that Kerry squad!!
Anyway, Nemo Rangers are more succesful than Cross (13 Munster Clubs & 7 All-Irelands - between 72-73 and 88-89 they won 9 Cork titles, 8 Munsters & 5 All-Irelands)
Aye, spread out over three decades. Cross have four, and are odds-on to make it a fifth, in 12 years. Please don't even compare the difficulty in winning a Munster Club title to the Ulster version.
QuotePlease don't even compare the difficulty in winning a Munster Club title to the Ulster version.
Why not, the county champions of all the Munster counties are generally strong. I'd say most of them would give most of the Ulster sides a good game(or any other province for that matter). I could give you recent examples to back that up but anyone who knows their club football would already agree with me I'm sure.
The Mayo ladies team of the early 2000's have to get a mention as well. They were as potent a force as either Cross or Kerry.
I make that a 12 point win for the evil empire. Both defences a bit porous.
Quote from: darbyo on November 26, 2007, 07:02:02 PM
QuotePlease don't even compare the difficulty in winning a Munster Club title to the Ulster version.
Why not, the county champions of all the Munster counties are generally strong. I'd say most of them would give most of the Ulster sides a good game(or any other province for that matter). I could give you recent examples to back that up but anyone who knows their club football would already agree with me I'm sure.
Afraid not. Since Cross won their first All-Ireland in 1997, only Nemo in 2003 have lifted the title for Munster (once in 11 years!) . In fact Nemo have been beaten by St Galls and Ballinderry since then. In that period Ulster and Connacht have won 5 each.
How would the bould Francie, if fit, handle the Bomber Liston, he was on his hole after Donaghy last year and Donaghy is not fit to lace the Bombers boots just yet.
Oisin would not get nothing easy off Paidi O'Se and Jacko would have both the McEntee twins in his arse pocket early on around midfield. Aaron Kernan would be chasing Pat Spillane around the place all day and wondering why Daddy Big Joe would not take him off. T'would be an embarrassment. Kerry in a canter.
QuoteAfraid not. Since Cross won their first All-Ireland in 1997, only Nemo in 2003 have lifted the title for Munster (once in 11 years!) . In fact Nemo have been beaten by St Galls and Ballinderry since then. In that period Ulster and Connacht have won 5 each.
I said...."the county champions of all the Munster counties are generally strong. I'd say
most of them would give
most of the Ulster sides a good game(or any other province for that matter). In other words they(Munster clubs) would be competitive in any of the provinces. How many of that 5 AI did Cross win take them out and Ulsters record isn't vastly superior to Munsters. Cross are an exceptional team I'm just pointing out that Munster club football is fairly strong across the board.
Sure the whole county of Armagh could only win one AI between them in 123 years so clearly their best club representatives wouldnt fare any better.
Also, why is there no critical analysis of the Armagh County championship when the "greatness" of Crossmaglen discussed ? Fierce double standard there lads....
If you count up the number of relatively tough games that Cross and Kerry had to come through during their glory years, then Cross would win hands down. The Kerry golden years was a myth perpetuated to brighten up an era when football in 29 counties in Ireland was on its knees.
QuoteAlso, why is there no critical analysis of the Armagh County championship when the "greatness" of Crossmaglen discussed ?
As noted earlier, because Cross win the Armagh championship doesn't mean it is weak, other Armagh clubs are comparable with most teams, but Cross is not just another regular team. The Munster intercounty championship is clearly weak, as it has few teams and the league position etc of teams other than Kerry and Cork suggests that they are weak, which is not surprising as hurling is the main sport there.
if there was any other serious senior club forces in Armagh, Cross would have slipped up at least once in the last 13 years. Not questioning their greatness by the way...
Cross drew with Dromintee in the championship earlier this year - that is the closest any team in ULSTER has got to them this year.......
if thats the best opposition the Armagh club scene can throw up in 13 years of championship football...
I don't get your point Steve. Yes Dromintee has been their best opposition over that period so what?
Quote from: whiskeysteve on November 27, 2007, 11:08:30 AM
if thats the best opposition the Armagh club scene can throw up in 13 years of championship football...
You are missing my point
For example this year, no other team in ULSTER got closer to Cross than a team from their own county championship
This year Cross have been awesome, no one in Ulster came close - but my point was in response to armaghniac, who said the opposition in Armagh is not necessarily weak. There are several clubs in Ulster, who at some time or another over the 13 years of Cross dominance, would have been good enough to pip them at some point - none of them are Armagh clubs, thus I disagree.
For example, was a division 1 armagh team - Whitecross, not well beaten by a 2nd tier Derry team this year in the ulster intermediate championship?
In you are arguing your point in the context of this year only, I would agree with you
The best team from another county has beaten Cross from time to time, I am not sure what that says about the standard of the rest of the teams in those counties.
Whitecross will be playing in Armagh div 2 next year and possibly weren't quite at their best when well beaten in the Ulster intermediate championship.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 26, 2007, 08:06:24 PM
How would the bould Francie, if fit, handle the Bomber Liston, he was on his hole after Donaghy last year and Donaghy is not fit to lace the Bombers boots just yet.
Oisin would not get nothing easy off Paidi O'Se and Jacko would have both the McEntee twins in his arse pocket early on around midfield. Aaron Kernan would be chasing Pat Spillane around the place all day and wondering why Daddy Big Joe would not take him off. T'would be an embarrassment. Kerry in a canter.
Mike i suspect you have the old rose tinted glasses on my friend.That Kerry team was a very good team but in reality the Kerry team of today is infinitely better.That team won 4(very nearly5) All Irelands in a row,but how many games did they have to play?
If things had'nt changed up here(by that i mean both Armagh and Tyrone becomming almost professional in setup and outlook) you would have won every All Ireland this decade.Back in the era of that team the rest of Ireland was a million miles from where the top teams are now.
You only had to look at the state of some of the so called greats during the winter campaigns to see how far the game has moved on in the last 30 years.Am I wrong in saying that in the 70's/80's after a Kerry team won an All Ireland they went on the lash til Feb and then got really stuck in to training?
Do the present team still do that?
Quote from: whiskeysteve on November 27, 2007, 10:34:35 AM
if there was any other serious senior club forces in Armagh, Cross would have slipped up at least once in the last 13 years. Not questioning their greatness by the way...
I think you'll find that the last team to win the Armagh Championship before Cross went on their spree also went on to win the Ulster club.
There also happens to be a club in Lurgan wit 3 Ulster club titles!!!How many other counties have 3 Ulster club winning clubs?
Be careful not to talk shite.
Derry have probably the best record in the competition. 10 titles beween 5 clubs.
Ballinderry, Loup, Bellaghy, Lavey, Dungiven
Armagh clubs have 10 titles beween them also.
Clans, Bawn and Cross.
Your point about the last team to beat Cross in Armagh going on to win the Ulster Club is a good one though. Club football in the county is reasonably strong. But I don't know if there are any clubs there at the minute that would make a decent fist of the Ulster Club if Cross did get beat. If for no other reason that they'd be partied out by the time it started.
Quote from: GPA not OK on November 27, 2007, 12:07:09 PM
Be careful not to talk shite.
Derry have probably the best record in the competition. 10 titles beween 5 clubs.
Ballinderry, Loup, Bellaghy, Lavey, Dungiven
I'll add Ballerin to that list, on behalf of my old buddy Rav67
Munster football championship. Quoting the Ballylanders (a team from Limerick, whose county football is relatively decent, even if it's declined somwhat in the last few years) manager before the game against Nemo- "We'll give it a good go." Most St. Gall's (and Ulster)people would have had every faith that the possibility existed to beat Cross. They didn't turn up to "give it a go". Again, comparing the respective championships is ridiculous.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on November 27, 2007, 11:51:40 AM
Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 26, 2007, 08:06:24 PM
How would the bould Francie, if fit, handle the Bomber Liston, he was on his hole after Donaghy last year and Donaghy is not fit to lace the Bombers boots just yet.
Oisin would not get nothing easy off Paidi O'Se and Jacko would have both the McEntee twins in his arse pocket early on around midfield. Aaron Kernan would be chasing Pat Spillane around the place all day and wondering why Daddy Big Joe would not take him off. T'would be an embarrassment. Kerry in a canter.
If things had'nt changed up here(by that i mean both Armagh and Tyrone becomming almost professional in setup and outlook) you would have won every All Ireland this decade.
Ahem.
I stand by my belief that Armagh Club football is of extremely high standard. Cross are just a machine but does not take away the fact that there are good clubs especially Dromintee, Ogs and Clans and obviously Harps if they get their act together.
QuoteAm I wrong in saying that in the 70's/80's after a Kerry team won an All Ireland they went on the lash til Feb and then got really stuck in to training?
As one of our lads once said one winter "our year revolves about football and drink and some of us haven't seen a ball in months"
QuoteDo the present team still do that?
Of course they do, you have to find time to celebrate and unwind for a few months, and there will be some piss up if/when they land the 3-in-a-row in '08.
Quote from: corn02 on November 27, 2007, 05:35:31 PM
I stand by my belief that Armagh Club football is of extremely high standard. Cross are just a machine but does not take away the fact that there are good clubs especially Dromintee, Ogs and Clans and obviously Harps if they get their act together.
I'm not going to say that Armagh football is of an extremely high standard, but what I would argue (as I have done on previous occasions here) is that you cannot state that Armagh Club Football is weak on the basis of Crossmaglen's dominance. There appears to be agreement across the board here that this Crossmaglen team is arguably the greatest club side of all time, with only Nemo Rangers clouding the picture in any way. I would always have thought if you consider the top ten clubs in any county in Ulster, then Derry would be out in front and possibly Tyrone after that. I would imagine Armagh to be as strong as anything else thereafter. The fact that a lot of our leading Clubs havn't featured in the Ulster Club in some time does not take away from that. I wrote recently, on a previous thread, the following;
Quote
Have to say that I enjoy these sort of discussions about football within the County. Someone mentioned (was it Maximus) that Cross winning twelve in a row points to a bad standard of club football - I would disagree with that. Maximus also pointed out that Cross winning twelve in a row pointed to the rest having a mental block with Cross, I would agree with that assertion.
Over the twelve years that Cross have dominated in Armagh, there are in my opinion, four teams who could have given an Ulster Club a good rattle.
Mullaghbawn 1996-98. Bear in mind, when Cross won their first Ulster Title, Mullaghbawn were the existing Ulster Club Champions, and their team had the McNultys, Geezer, Neil Smyth and Benny Tierney as it's backbone, and were still a formidable side - if memory serves me well, Cross beat Mullaghbawn in Silverbridge in 1996 in a quarter final, and pulled away late on to win by 4/5. They met again in the 1997 final, and Cross, the exisitng All Ireland Club Champions, edged it by a point. After that, Mullaghbawn began to lose their big players, and faded away - they were for those three years, in my opinion, a top five in Ulster side - their clashes with Cross would support that.
Clan na Gael 1997-99. Another club littered with excellent players at the peak of their powers, the O'Hagans, John Campbell, Philip Oldham, the Marsdens - won back to back Armagh titles in 1993/94, hammering the Mullaghbawn side in the 1994 final that would go on to win Ulster a year later. Not as good as Mullaghbawn above, but I would have said a top 6/7 side in Ulster in the period above.
Pearse Og 1999-2001. Alright, pains me to say it, but they had a very good team in this period, but were unfortunate to come up against Cross at the height of their powers in 1999 and 2000. The Ogs had a very young team, full of exciting footballers, and in my opinion would have been a top 9 club in Ulster at that time. This was the first time though that I saw serious challengers who clearly had a mental block about Cross. From 2001 on, they fell to three in the County as the challenge of Dromintee arose, and Dromintee were a hurdle that they could not overcome. The Ogs came back again in the first round in 2005 and had Cross at their mercy on two occasions, but the mental block arose again, and a few chances to finish them off were not taken. Plus Dessie Henderson had one of his more eccentric performances at a vital time! The real losers that night though were Dromintee!
Dromintee 2001-2004. Another excellent side full of great footballers. They run Cross close on a few occasions, at a point where both sides were giving their all and the result was very much in doubt. Were the second serious challenger however to come undone by the mental block, when winning chances presented themselves. After a few defeats, it was clear that Cross had their number. In my opinion, that Dromintee side were top five in Ulster - no question about it they would have been in the running for an Ulster Club Title - they just could not get out of their own County. I get the impression though that Dromintee now feel that their chance has gone and they now play with the acceptance that they will not win the County title. I believe this lack of self belief is now shared by the other main contenders.
As of now, Cross are way out in front and comfortably so. Dromintee, in my opinion, would be second on their own and after that I would see a group of Ogs, Harps, Mullaghbawn with Maghery showing signs of improvement.
The one point that I would reiterate here, and as mentioned above, Crossmaglen's dominance has reached the stage whereby they have matches won due to their reputation/aura. I can think of a number of games over the years where Cross were there for the taking and the opposition baulked at the magnitude of what they were about to do, and the chance was lost!
Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 27, 2007, 07:30:59 PM
QuoteAm I wrong in saying that in the 70's/80's after a Kerry team won an All Ireland they went on the lash til Feb and then got really stuck in to training?
As one of our lads once said one winter "our year revolves about football and drink and some of us haven't seen a ball in months"
QuoteDo the present team still do that?
Of course they do, you have to find time to celebrate and unwind for a few months, and there will be some piss up if/when they land the 3-in-a-row in '08.
If this team win 3 in a row (as an Ulsterman it pains me to say it),and I can see no one stopping them then they will in my humble opinion be the best Kerry team since 1974(when I first started watching football.
So football begain in 74 then?
I've stated on this board before that Dromintee would have won, at the very least, an Ulster if they could've got past Cross, not that's it's any consolation to them now. Hard to know what's around the corner but I'd expect Cross to get 15 in a row in Armagh, as has been said here already they've rode their luck on numerous ocassions and all it needs is a decent side and Cross's luck to desert them for a night for it all to come crashing down.
I suppose the big diference between these sides is that Cross had to play a right few games to win their AI's.
Mirroring the way Crossmaglen took out Kelly last week, I'd see them wiping out Pat Spillane after 14 minutes - a sort of clumsy Bellew shoulder. Bomber would be starved of the ball. Sheehy would find himself tracking Kernan. It'd be 0-8 to 0-6 in favour of Kerry at the short whistle. Frustration would get the better of O'Shea and he's clothesline McEntee. Off. Final score: Crossmaglen 0-11 Kerry 0-10.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on November 27, 2007, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: GPA not OK on November 27, 2007, 12:07:09 PM
Be careful not to talk shite.
Derry have probably the best record in the competition. 10 titles beween 5 clubs.
Ballinderry, Loup, Bellaghy, Lavey, Dungiven
I'll add Ballerin to that list, on behalf of my old buddy Rav67
Thanks steve, people seem to have forgotten that famous run. The sleeping giant will awake again some day soon.
The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.
Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.
Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?
And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.
Quote from: Frank Casey on November 30, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.
Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?
And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.
As i said different weight divisions, both are/were very strong in their respective grade, this does not transfer when out of their grade.
On the Kerry Footnote, It puzzles me at the lack of success for such at
strong football county at other grades other than Senior. Is club football in Kerry weak as there seems to be little or no success AI wise there for 15 years plus? Or could it be the Ulster excuise that it is so hard to win the county title, you are burn't out for AI and Munster title challenges.....But sure the cream always rises to the top!
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 01, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Casey on November 30, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.
Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?
And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.
As i said different weight divisions, both are/were very strong in their respective grade, this does not transfer when out of their grade.
On the Kerry Footnote, It puzzles me at the lack of success for such at strong football county at other grades other than Senior. Is club football in Kerry weak as there seems to be little or no success AI wise there for 15 years plus? Or could it be the Ulster excuise that it is so hard to win the county title, you are burn't out for AI and Munster title challenges.....But sure the cream always rises to the top!
Kerry club football does though have an illustrious record in the All Ireland Club. Laune Rangers, Castleisland Desmonds, Dr Crokes, Austin Stacks and East Kerry have all won the title once each. I think an Gaeltacht also have a title, if my memory serves me well!
Quote from: rrhf on November 30, 2007, 03:24:52 PM
So football begain in 74 then?
No I suspect that football started sometime shortly after a group of fellows got together in a hotel in Thurles sometime arround 1884.
As I only started watching football in 1974 I felt unable to pass comment on Kerry teams from before then you complete half wit.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on December 01, 2007, 11:58:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 01, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Casey on November 30, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.
Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?
And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.
As i said different weight divisions, both are/were very strong in their respective grade, this does not transfer when out of their grade.
On the Kerry Footnote, It puzzles me at the lack of success for such at strong football county at other grades other than Senior. Is club football in Kerry weak as there seems to be little or no success AI wise there for 15 years plus? Or could it be the Ulster excuise that it is so hard to win the county title, you are burn't out for AI and Munster title challenges.....But sure the cream always rises to the top!
Kerry club football does though have an illustrious record in the All Ireland Club. Laune Rangers, Castleisland Desmonds, Dr Crokes, Austin Stacks and East Kerry have all won the title once each. I think an Gaeltacht also have a title, if my memory serves me well!
An Gaeltacht have never won it. Caltra beat them in the final in 2004.
East Kerry was an amalgamated side which of course aren't allowed to enter any more.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 04, 2007, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on December 01, 2007, 11:58:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 01, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Casey on November 30, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.
Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?
And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.
As i said different weight divisions, both are/were very strong in their respective grade, this does not transfer when out of their grade.
On the Kerry Footnote, It puzzles me at the lack of success for such at strong football county at other grades other than Senior. Is club football in Kerry weak as there seems to be little or no success AI wise there for 15 years plus? Or could it be the Ulster excuise that it is so hard to win the county title, you are burn't out for AI and Munster title challenges.....But sure the cream always rises to the top!
Kerry club football does though have an illustrious record in the All Ireland Club. Laune Rangers, Castleisland Desmonds, Dr Crokes, Austin Stacks and East Kerry have all won the title once each. I think an Gaeltacht also have a title, if my memory serves me well!
An Gaeltacht have never won it. Caltra beat them in the final in 2004.
East Kerry was an amalgamated side which of course aren't allowed to enter any more.
Fair enough GBB - I was wrong about An Gaeltacht and you are of course right about East Kerry. That still leaves four different winners, which is still an envious record.
Also, the very fact that Divisional sides are not allowed enter the provincial club championships (rightly so) mitigates the chance of a Kerry team winning an All Ireland Club, even though the likes of Castleisland, Laune Rangers and Stacks have been successful in the past.
The thing is the Kerry County Board, and the various Divisional Boards, are more interested in having a high quality County Championship, thereby raising standards within the county and thus helping develop players for the County team, than winning club All Irelands.
Regarding the underage scene, yes it is a mystery why Kerry have not won more minor/U21 All Irelands, but again, the main aim is grooming lads for senior football. And every year another two or three at least come along to push for places, which keeps the whole thing fresh.