Ciaran Sheehan, one of the best underage players Cork have produced in a long while has also agreed to join Carlton after his leaving cert.
Having already lured the AFL's No. 1 player, Chris Judd, and secured a prized priority draft pick, the Blues have adopted a recruiting system in Ireland akin to the old form-four deals to persuade talented Gaelic footballers to commit to the Blues.
Carlton has also convinced 2007 all-Ireland finalist Michael Shields, 20, to fly to Melbourne next month to spend a pre-season with the Blues with a view to placing him on the senior list.
Carlton football operations manager Steven Icke flew into Dublin last night and was scheduled to meet the four junior Gaelic footballers, offering them $1600 apiece on the condition they choose the Blues should they decide to try to make the grade in AFL football.
AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou, who last week met a delegation from the Gaelic Athletic Association in Paris in a bid to resurrect the International Rules series, said he was unaware of the Blues' Irish assault but believed there were no rules to prevent it.
"I wasn't aware they were doing it but there is nothing in our rules that precludes this," Demetriou said.
"At the moment the AFL apprenticeship scheme, which can lead to overseas-scholarship players coming into the AFL does not include Ireland but this is different."
Carlton is understood to have spoken to four teenagers aged between 16 and 17 from four counties — Galway, Cork, Laois and Armagh. All four have been outstanding junior players identified by the Blues' Irish recruiting consultant Gerard Sholly.
Icke and Carlton's new coach Brett Ratten left Italy yesterday following a fact-finding tour of high-profile European club Juventus with Ratten heading home to Melbourne and Icke completing the Irish deal.
The move could cause consternation in Ireland, which two years ago was threatening to call off the international rules series as a result of AFL clubs luring marquee players away from the local competition to Australia. However, a sense of inevitability appears to have prevailed over the GAA with Shields the fourth Gaelic footballer heading to AFL pre-season training this year.
Already Brendan Murphy, 18, has committed to the Sydney Swans with teenager Pierce Handley flying to train with Brisbane next month and Collingwood securing Kevin Dyass.
Not only is the international recruiting system another way of securing players outside the draft but the cultural similarities between the two countries, the athletic talent of leading Gaelic footballers and the lack of transfer fees makes the system even more attractive.
Carlton was famous for luring players from around Australia as a VFL club in the early 80s, securing Craig Bradley, Stephen Kernahan and Peter Motley.
The money that changes hands with the Irish teenagers will be used to assist them in schooling and training.
The Brisbane Lions, meanwhile, looks certain to have reached an agreement with the disgruntled Jared Brennan and is expected to re-sign him on a three-year deal.
The trickle of Irish players coming to the AFL is now turning into a flood.
I just feel sorry for his club who I'm sure were hoping for great things from him in the future - by the way, any word on Billy Morgan ?
Well if he does get a contract over there it will be a huge blow for Cork football as he'd be seen as the lynch pin of the defence for the next decade. It also could see a broadening of the age profile of the recruits that the Aussies are targeting. Any good 21/22 yr old was up to now deemed to be too old He club, 'Barrs, ahve just been relegated and this would totally knock the stuffing out of them.
QuoteCarlton is understood to have spoken to four teenagers aged between 16 and 17 from four counties — Galway, Cork, Laois and Armagh
Hmmmm. The Galway lad must be someone from this year's All-Ireland winning minor team. Maybe midfielder Paul Conroy? Would seem the best bet in terms of what those AFL scouts usually look for. Tall, mobile, good athlete, etc.
Lads the time has come for the GAA to stand up and be bold and demand compensation for these players. I know we are an amateur organisation, but the Aussies have got to be laughing at our organisations vulnerability here.
For an organisation that originally shared the same values as the gaa and built up a close relationship on the basis of that the aussies are starting to take the mickey. From the gaa point of view this is starting to get very worrying. The gaa does lose players to soccer and rugby but usually at a much earlier age. These lads are boys who have been coached for hundreds of hours and are on the verge on becoming big players for their counties. County football football will be be a lot worse of if the best players from each county are missing. If boys like McGeeney and Dara O'Se hadnt played for their counties theyd have been a lot worse of this last 10 years. One can only imagine how much damage the loss of Martin Clarke has done for Down. The aussies put nothing into these lads development but expect a free ride after the gaa has put so much energy into developing them as athletes/players.
Amatuerism is at the heart of the GAA but not allowing foreign sports to be played in our grounds was as well at one point and we changed our stance regards this as well. If this means we have to pay the top county players and make them semi pro then lets do it, to at least try and slow down this migation to Australia.
Well you cant blame a GAA player for trying out professionally with Aussie Rules....we had rules when the compromise rules was in place but we didn't obey them and complained...If I was a young gaa player i would go to aus...
Cork star Shields dismisses AFL move talk
CORK football star Michael Shields last night dismissed Australian media claims he is to join AFL side Carlton.
The St Finbarr's clubman, who won an All-Ireland U-21 medal earlier this season, said the Melbourne outfit had contacted him but added that there had been "no firm offer" of a contract from them.
Said Shields: "Carlton were on to me, but they haven't offered me anything concrete.
"I got a phone call from Carlton about a month ago and I met up with them a couple of weeks ago. But there's been no contact since then — there was no firm offer or anything.
"The last I heard from them was that meeting a couple of weeks ago and there's been nothing since.
"I'm surprised to hear anything else about it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm working away in college the whole time."
The Melbourne Age, also reported that The Blues were also engaged in secret talks with four teenagers, from Galway, Cork, Laois and Armagh who were recommended by the clubs' Irish recruiting consultant Gerard Sholly.
Australian sources explain that the club are to offer the players AUS$1,600 (€1,000) to ensure that they have first refusal of them if and when they every decide to try for a career in Aussie Rules.
It also claimed that Carlton football operations manager Steven Icke flew into Dublin this week to meet the four teenagers.
The Melbourne outfit are no strangers to poaching Irish talent with former Cork hurlers Setanta and Aisake Ó hAilpín, two previous high-profile signings.
AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou, who met GAA chiefs last week in a bid to resurrect the International Rules series, said he was unaware of the Blues' Irish assault.
But he stressed there were no rules to prevent it.
"I wasn't aware they were doing it but there is nothing in our rules that precludes this," Demetriou said. "At the moment the AFL apprenticeship scheme, which can lead to overseas-scholarship players coming into the AFL does not include Ireland but this is different."
Commenting on the suggestion that clubs were willing to offer players money, the GAA's Head of Games Pat Daly said: "I haven't heard about it myself until now but, even though Demetriou might be saying no rules are being broken, it is important is that there is transparency between the two governing bodies and standards. Things have to be done in the proper way.
"I'm not sure this is the way to do business. It is contrary to the way we do business but it is a free world and if players want to go over to Australia and try their hand at it that is their decision."
Daly's primary concern is for the welfare of players.
"We have seen time and again players going over to England to play soccer and being thrown on the scrapheap by clubs. I'm not suggesting that is the case here but it is important that the players are looked after.
"They are the priority here and some mechanism needs to be worked out between the two governing bodies to ensure that their best interests are taken care of. It isn't rocket science but that isn't to say that it will happen either.
Anyone know who the Galway, Laois, Armagh and Cork (Sheehan) teenagers are? It'd be interesting to know who the game is about to lose.
I presume the Armagh player mentioned is Kevin Dyas - he has already joined them, but he would be older than the 17-18 age bracket that is quoted in the article.
Dyas has joined Collingwood - so its not him. These are amueter players - the GAA do not own them and they can make up there own minds.
Quote from: zoyler on October 24, 2007, 10:40:12 AM
Dyas has joined Collingwood - so its not him. These are amueter players - the GAA do not own them and they can make up there own minds.
Your spot on there Zoyler, the Gaa can't have it the best of both worlds. I had to laugh the other week when Nicky Brennan was saying that they might have to look in to the club getting compensated in future if this continues. How on earth could he be serious the clubs don't own the players thats the point of been an amatuer organisation.If a young lad is given the opputunity to play professional sport in another country fair play to him.
Schoolboy soccer clubs don't own their players either yet some of them see a tidy return as their players get signed to a club in England. I don't see what the problem is. Each player that signs on with an AFL club stipulates in the contract that x amount of dollars go to his local club. It wouldn't be taken out of his pocket. It would be a one off payment or even performance related, so that if someone goes on to be a superstar the club could get a nice few bob out of it. You have to understand that the place is going to be swarming with AFL scouts as it is a no-brainer to recruit Irish lads. They are outside the salary cap (they'll get paid f*ck all anyway) and they are outside the national draft so at the moment as far as the aussies are concerned, hunting season is well and truly open with no bag limit. There has to be some form of regulation.
Dunno whether to be glad or worried that they're not after any dubs ...
Good luck to the boys, it wony work out for all of them, as it's not everyone cup of tea living ont he far side of the planet, would be great if the clubs that lose the player got some compo but legally i cant see how it'd work ...
Quote from: Jinxy on October 24, 2007, 11:37:59 AM
Schoolboy soccer clubs don't own their players either yet some of them see a tidy return as their players get signed to a club in England. I don't see what the problem is. Each player that signs on with an AFL club stipulates in the contract that x amount of dollars go to his local club. It wouldn't be taken out of his pocket. It would be a one off payment or even performance related, so that if someone goes on to be a superstar the club could get a nice few bob out of it. You have to understand that the place is going to be swarming with AFL scouts as it is a no-brainer to recruit Irish lads. They are outside the salary cap (they'll get paid f*ck all anyway) and they are outside the national draft so at the moment as far as the aussies are concerned, hunting season is well and truly open with no bag limit. There has to be some form of regulation.
I see what your saying Jinxy but i don't see why the club should get paid. For e.g a player plays with his home club and moves to Dublin he then transfers to a Dublin club, his own home club does not get compensated despite the fact that he has played with them all his life . The point is the Gaa is an amatuer organisation and the ethos of the organisation is that everything is done voluntary from coaching kids, to playing ect ect.I think that its hyprocritical of us to say that we want to remain amatuer organisation but yet expect the clubs to receive some sort of payment even though they have no rights to the players.
You'll see more and more players from counties outside of the big 2 of Kerry & Tyrone accepting the lure of Aussie Rules. If they have little or no chance of winning Sam during their playing career here, you can't really blame them. :'(
Quote from: the Deel Rover on October 24, 2007, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 24, 2007, 11:37:59 AM
Schoolboy soccer clubs don't own their players either yet some of them see a tidy return as their players get signed to a club in England. I don't see what the problem is. Each player that signs on with an AFL club stipulates in the contract that x amount of dollars go to his local club. It wouldn't be taken out of his pocket. It would be a one off payment or even performance related, so that if someone goes on to be a superstar the club could get a nice few bob out of it. You have to understand that the place is going to be swarming with AFL scouts as it is a no-brainer to recruit Irish lads. They are outside the salary cap (they'll get paid f*ck all anyway) and they are outside the national draft so at the moment as far as the aussies are concerned, hunting season is well and truly open with no bag limit. There has to be some form of regulation.
I see what your saying Jinxy but i don't see why the club should get paid. For e.g a player plays with his home club and moves to Dublin he then transfers to a Dublin club, his own home club does not get compensated despite the fact that he has played with them all his life . The point is the Gaa is an amatuer organisation and the ethos of the organisation is that everything is done voluntary from coaching kids, to playing ect ect.I think that its hyprocritical of us to say that we want to remain amatuer organisation but yet expect the clubs to receive some sort of payment even though they have no rights to the players.
Think of it more as a charitable donation as opposed to a "payment." Clubs get money from various sources anyway. It's not like they are going to split the cash amongst the members. I don't see how this would be hypocritical to be honest. Might pay the utility bills for a year. Anyway, as with the schoolboy soccer team legal "rights" don't come into it. You establish a precedent and it eventually becomes the norm. It's not comparable with lads moving clubs. As far as I know AFL clubs give money to the juvenile clubs in Oz when they draft a player anyway. May be wrong on this.
Quote from: Over the Bar on October 24, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
You'll see more and more players from counties outside of the big 2 of Kerry & Tyrone accepting the lure of Aussie Rules. If they have little or no chance of winning Sam during their playing career here, you can't really blame them. :'(
Big 2
Tyrone having a chance to win Sam ;D
Best laugh i've seen here in a while
On the issue of these players 4 players in not a flood and they can't all be successes . So they'll have the advantage of 2 year training at a pro level and will be ready to slot into a senior team
Quote from: Gnevin on October 24, 2007, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on October 24, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
You'll see more and more players from counties outside of the big 2 of Kerry & Tyrone accepting the lure of Aussie Rules. If they have little or no chance of winning Sam during their playing career here, you can't really blame them. :'(
Big 2
Tyrone having a chance to win Sam ;D
Best laugh i've seen here in a while
On the issue of these players 4 players in not a flood and they can't all be successes . So they'll have the advantage of 2 year training at a pro level and will be ready to slot into a senior team
Nicholas Walsh forgot how to play Gaelic Football while he was away. Was very promising before and probably is not good enough for Cavan Team which isn't a nice thing to say but is true.
Quote from: cavan4ever on October 24, 2007, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on October 24, 2007, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on October 24, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
You'll see more and more players from counties outside of the big 2 of Kerry & Tyrone accepting the lure of Aussie Rules. If they have little or no chance of winning Sam during their playing career here, you can't really blame them. :'(
Big 2
Tyrone having a chance to win Sam ;D
Best laugh i've seen here in a while
On the issue of these players 4 players in not a flood and they can't all be successes . So they'll have the advantage of 2 year training at a pro level and will be ready to slot into a senior team
Nicholas Walsh forgot how to play Gaelic Football while he was away. Was very promising before and probably is not good enough for Cavan Team which isn't a nice thing to say but is true.
Just beat me to it! Although he did learn a few other "tricks" while he was away. I'll say no more lest this thread be hijacked by cranky Tyrone men. ;D
Quote from: cavan4ever on October 24, 2007, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on October 24, 2007, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on October 24, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
You'll see more and more players from counties outside of the big 2 of Kerry & Tyrone accepting the lure of Aussie Rules. If they have little or no chance of winning Sam during their playing career here, you can't really blame them. :'(
Big 2
Tyrone having a chance to win Sam ;D
Best laugh i've seen here in a while
On the issue of these players 4 players in not a flood and they can't all be successes . So they'll have the advantage of 2 year training at a pro level and will be ready to slot into a senior team
Nicholas Walsh forgot how to play Gaelic Football while he was away. Was very promising before and probably is not good enough for Cavan Team which isn't a nice thing to say but is true.
May the promise just never developed the O halpin lads and others seem to be able to pick it up fast enough while on holidays home
Yes, but can the GAA do anything to make itself more attractive to get lads to stay?
On another note, whats Setanta's hurling skills like since he's been away. On the TV program he looked like he had lost his touch very quickly.
I could never understand how Setanta was picked out by yer man Sholly in the first place. Like it's not as if he was a star underage footballer like the players that are being offered contracts now?
QuoteBig 2
Tyrone having a chance to win Sam
Best laugh i've seen here in a while
I'll wager as much as you are willing to lose that Tyrone win at least one more Sam during Mickey Harte's current stint as manager.
QuoteSchoolboy soccer clubs don't own their players either yet some of them see a tidy return as their players get signed to a club in England. I don't see what the problem is. Each player that signs on with an AFL club stipulates in the contract that x amount of dollars go to his local club. It wouldn't be taken out of his pocket. It would be a one off payment or even performance related, so that if someone goes on to be a superstar the club could get a nice few bob out of it. You have to understand that the place is going to be swarming with AFL scouts as it is a no-brainer to recruit Irish lads. They are outside the salary cap (they'll get paid f*ck all anyway) and they are outside the national draft so at the moment as far as the aussies are concerned, hunting season is well and truly open with no bag limit. There has to be some form of regulation.
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
Soccer is easily regulated as it is the same sport and it is regulated by an international body. If big clubs start misbehaving FIFA or UEFA can deal with it.
The problem here is two-fold:
1) The GAA & AFL are two entirely separate codes with only token contact;
2) One of those codes is entirely amateur;
There are two possible solutions as I see it and both involve bitter pills for large sections of the Gaa community.
1) Find a way of making it just as attractive for the players to stay. All things being equal the average young Irish lad would rather play Gah for his county over Aussie rules so if the packages available were comparable the problem would fizzle out.
2) Create a joint regulatory body with binding rules on registration and thus compensation to clubs who lose players to a professional outfit. There would have to be an incentive for the AFL to sign up to this, maybe in the way of the International Rules or whatever, but either way I suspect there would be some pain for us here.
Given that a majority of Gaa people are against pay for play and a significant number want to break off contact with the AFL it will be difficult to resolve the situation.
For what its worth here is my solution:
Proceed with the Government elite sportsman grant. (We have muppets that don't get out of their heats in major Championships getting thousands per annum so why not rewards those that thrill entire counties with the flick of a foot or a hurl?)
To qualify for the grant a player would have to sign up to certain guarantees.
e.g:
* No participation in any movement towards professionalism;
* A player remains with the club/county that got him to that level;
* Any transfer to another code to play professionally would trigger a compensation to a named club;
* If the deal was done under the auspices of the GPA then the GPA would guarantee not to persue pay for play or professionalism;
I know that idea of any money going to players, grant or otherwise, sticks in the throat of many Gaa people but I think at the moment it might be a small price to pay to protect us from bigger problems currently on the horizon.
I hate these posters who come on and say that the GAA don't own the players etc etc etc - We all know the GAA don't own them but it's scandalous that the Aussies can walk in and take our best talent and pay the club nothing for their services - the GAA have invested huge amounts of time and effort and money into the whole organsiation - the Aussies haven't spent a bean - of course the clubs should be compensated and the quicker this is sorted out the better - start with £ 100k per player - that would put manners in them -
Orangeman, ranting aside how exactly do you propose to force the Aussies to pay £100,000 a man?
Amateur players are not contracted and therefore are free to move where they please unless they contravene the rules of the sport in question. The AFL have no rules on Irish players and why would they when they get them for free?
Orangeman - wehat would be the strory with a young lad going off to play pro soccer who also played GAA? Would you expect the GAA club to be compensated. WE might not like the situation - all were doing is recognisimg the reality of the situation.
The soccer player is not being picked up on the basis of his gaelic football skills though is he? The fact that he also plays gaelic football is purely coincidence. Shields is being recruited for his skill as a gaelic footballer, which it is hoped will transfer to the oval ball game. Not quite the same thing although I'd agree that there is no real precedent for this that I know of with other sports. Maybe the NFL signing kickers from the AFL/soccer/rugby is the closest thing but they would typically be much older when they make the switch.
Cork's Sheehan is probably Ciaran Sheehan, was centra forward for Cork minors. Really strong player, good runner and can score. Minor next year as well.
Laois player is prob John O'Loughlin or Donie Kingston
Definitely not John O'Loughlin and almost certain that Donie Kingston hasn't been approached either
Definitely not John O'Loughlin and almost certain that Donie Kingston hasn't been approached either
not true -queueing up is what i heard in relation to kingston they can't approach him officially because he's too young-but they will.
Quote from: Over the Bar on October 24, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
You'll see more and more players from counties outside of the big 2 of Kerry & Tyrone accepting the lure of Aussie Rules. If they have little or no chance of winning Sam during their playing career here, you can't really blame them. :'(
There is no big two ffs, there is the big one and that is Kerry. Ye Tyronies have delusions of grandeur. :-[