These AFL guys are really annoying me now >:(
They are so arrogant, treat the GAA like dirt and as if they can walk all over them.
Quote
Any decision to permanently scrap the International Rules series would lead to AFL clubs launching a mass recruitment drive in Ireland, Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos has warned.
As Mayo's Pierce Hanley prepares to become the latest young GAA star to try his hand in Aussie Rules, Roos has claimed that respect for the International Rules series is the only thing that has prevented AFL clubs from launching a full-scale recruitment raid before now.
But with the future of the hybrid game in grave doubt, wealthy clubs Down Under are preparing to plunder the cream of young Irish talent to get around the AFL's restrictive draft and salary cap rules.
"One of the things that has probably stopped teams tapping into Ireland with a lot of finance is respect for the hybrid game of International Rules," said Roos, who counts Listowel's Tadhg Kennelly among his star players.
"If that's not going to go on, I'd say there's going to be a massive approach by all clubs to get the best kids out of Ireland."
The GAA and AFL are due to discuss the future of the Rules series sometime after next month's All-Ireland finals.
f**king convicts
this is a popular thread-
losers
There was no widespread loss for the years in the late 80s and 90s when there was no Compromise/ International Rules, would it be much different? Can understand how tempting it for any promising GAA player though. I have to be honest and say that if I was in the same position as the lads that have gone down under, I'd do the same thing.
I really dont see what can be done here, the gaa can do nothing to stop these players from going over and the Aussies are taking anyone willing to go at the mo anyway.
Not a thing anyone can do about it, It's only going to get worse, every promising underage player in the country will be getting someone to video their matches and stick the best bits up on Youtube and send the link to AFL clubs to see if they'll sign them up.
This attitude of blaming the AFL is ignorant to say the least, the players are here and are willing to go - why wouldn't the Aussies take them.
We'd be a lot better off trying to figure out how we ( the GAA ) can try and address the problem than whinging about the situation as it stands.
Every player that has come out to Oz has said that the offer to be a full time professional sportsman was too much to turn down, every young persons dream etc. Fact of the matter is that the cream of our talent will not be satisified with the honour of pulling their County jersey , and not getting anything in return.
The only answer I can see is for the association to be in a position to offer a professional contract to players - now hands up everyone here who wants to go that road?
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We'd be a lot better off trying to figure out how we ( the GAA ) can try and address the problem than whinging about the situation as it stands.
But you're after saying there's not a thing that can be done about it.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2007, 10:11:18 AM
Quote
We'd be a lot better off trying to figure out how we ( the GAA ) can try and address the problem than whinging about the situation as it stands.
But you're after saying there's not a thing that can be done about it.
And if you read my entire post you'd have noticed that I went onto give an opinion on how best to stop them, do you have an opinion yourself or are you too busy half reading other posts so you can jump in an offer some meaningless, non entity of a comment.
::)
Quote from: stephenite on August 19, 2007, 11:35:30 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2007, 10:11:18 AM
Quote
We'd be a lot better off trying to figure out how we ( the GAA ) can try and address the problem than whinging about the situation as it stands.
But you're after saying there's not a thing that can be done about it.
And if you read my entire post you'd have noticed that I went onto give an opinion on how best to stop them, do you have an opinion yourself or are you too busy half reading other posts so you can jump in an offer some meaningless, non entity of a comment.
::)
Oh I'm sorry was this a serious proposal? I thought you were joking.
QuoteThe only answer I can see is for the association to be in a position to offer a professional contract to players - now hands up everyone here who wants to go that road?
I've offered my opinion on this before. There aren't to many Martin Clarkes in the GAA and there aren't to many with the talent and ability to suceed at Aussie Rules. They may coax our best youngsters away but very few will make it and will return in a few years better players than when they went. The Aussies will soon get sick of this and you'd imagine youngsters would start to think long and hard about the move if they see a lot not making it.
Now I'm not particularly worried about the Aussies and maybe I'm wrong but the one thing we can't do do is start offering contracts.
GAA players are members of their clubs - they sign a membership form.
by rights they need a transfer to leave that club for another GAA club.
The GAA should negotiate a deal with AFL clubs that any player that does go to Oz, then his club must get compensated for losing that player??
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2007, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: stephenite on August 19, 2007, 11:35:30 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2007, 10:11:18 AM
Quote
We'd be a lot better off trying to figure out how we ( the GAA ) can try and address the problem than whinging about the situation as it stands.
But you're after saying there's not a thing that can be done about it.
And if you read my entire post you'd have noticed that I went onto give an opinion on how best to stop them, do you have an opinion yourself or are you too busy half reading other posts so you can jump in an offer some meaningless, non entity of a comment.
::)
Oh I'm sorry was this a serious proposal? I thought you were joking.
QuoteThe only answer I can see is for the association to be in a position to offer a professional contract to players - now hands up everyone here who wants to go that road?
I've offered my opinion on this before. There aren't to many Martin Clarkes in the GAA and there aren't to many with the talent and ability to suceed at Aussie Rules. They may coax our best youngsters away but very few will make it and will return in a few years better players than when they went. The Aussies will soon get sick of this and you'd imagine youngsters would start to think long and hard about the move if they see a lot not making it.
Now I'm not particularly worried about the Aussies and maybe I'm wrong but the one thing we can't do do is start offering contracts.
I don't agree with going professional either, but I see the rate of young players going over as something the association should be worried about, and fear it might only continue. I hope your right, and there is nothing to worry about.
As it is over the last few years Laois, Down, Mayo have lost their best young prospects, Cork lost it's brightest hurling star and if the rumours are true then there are even more to follow over the next few months, a sustained flow of our best talent is not exactly good for the association, and something will have to give.
Quote from: neilthemac on August 19, 2007, 12:08:07 PM
GAA players are members of their clubs - they sign a membership form.
by rights they need a transfer to leave that club for another GAA club.
The GAA should negotiate a deal with AFL clubs that any player that does go to Oz, then his club must get compensated for losing that player??
But what happens when AFL refuse to pay. It's not like anyone can stop a player from still going, but that opens up a can of worms regarding inter-club transfers as they stand, but at least that's within the GAA.
Might be possible for the AFL to agree a nominal fee for each player, but they couldn't be forced.
Quote
As it is over the last few years Laois, Down, Mayo have lost their best young prospects, Cork lost it's brightest hurling star and if the rumours are true then there are even more to follow over the next few months, a sustained flow of our best talent is not exactly good for the association, and something will have to give.
And how many have made it? Martin Clarke? O'Hailpin?
Quote
The GAA should negotiate a deal with AFL clubs that any player that does go to Oz, then his club must get compensated for losing that player??
But the GAA have nothing to negotiate with. The GAA can ask the AFL to compensate clubs and they say no, the gaa say "uuum...ok".
Surely if there is an influx of Irish players to the AFL they will look at changing their rules?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2007, 12:18:06 PM
Quote
As it is over the last few years Laois, Down, Mayo have lost their best young prospects, Cork lost it's brightest hurling star and if the rumours are true then there are even more to follow over the next few months, a sustained flow of our best talent is not exactly good for the association, and something will have to give.
And how many have made it? Martin Clarke? O'Hailpin?
Quote
The GAA should negotiate a deal with AFL clubs that any player that does go to Oz, then his club must get compensated for losing that player??
But the GAA have nothing to negotiate with. The GAA can ask the AFL to compensate clubs and they say no, the gaa say "uuum...ok".
Surely if there is an influx of Irish players to the AFL they will look at changing their rules?
Martin Clarke, Setanta, Colm Begley and Kennelly. Quigley from Laois came out with Begley but went back homesick. Now, I'm not aware of any others that have been out and failed? So if 4 out 5 can make it, that's says to me that most other Irish lads can do well and earn plenty of money as long they don't get homesick.
Why would the AFL look at changing their rules? It's a professional sport - they're already scouting in South Africa also and tying to sell the game to kids over there. These boys want to go to see the game and the money increasing, and as such it won't matter a damn what country you're from.
QuoteMartin Clarke, Setanta, Colm Begley and Kennelly. Quigley from Laois came out with Begley but went back homesick. Now, I'm not aware of any others that have been out and failed? So if 4 out 5 can make it, that's says to me that most other Irish lads can do well and earn plenty of money as long they don't get homesick.
And sean cavanage refused a contract. You're also taking about a period when they were recruiting our best, to me they're hinting that for now any half decent player will be recruited and do you think three quarters of those will suceed? We'll just have to wait and see but I doubt it.
QuoteWhy would the AFL look at changing their rules? It's a professional sport - they're already scouting in South Africa also and tying to sell the game to kids over there. These boys want to go to see the game and the money increasing, and as such it won't matter a damn what country you're from.
Well not knowing much about the game I assume they have drafting rules for a reason and if clubs are getting around these by recruiting Irish players than surely it's not impossible that they may consider looking the rules?
I wouldnt take that comment by Roos as a threat, he hasnt said anything new, the possibility of a full time professional contract will always be a temptation to our top young stars.
The reports about Kevin Dyas heading to Collingwood to play Aussie Rules are true - they're ready to fly him over once Dromintee are out of the Championship
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361318
I've mixed feelings about this, big loss to Armagh and huge loss to Dromintee - but I reckon he can make a go of it.
Quoterespect for the hybrid game of International Rules
I didn't see much respect being shown in the games themselves.
Quote from: Billys Boots on August 21, 2007, 10:40:02 AM
Quoterespect for the hybrid game of International Rules
I didn't see much respect being shown in the games themselves.
I would agree with that
I dont think we could or should stop these young lads going over to Oz to play professionally.
Not all will make it and they will come home the better for it - usually (eg Tohill - otherwise they might come back a wee bit perverted eg nicholas walsh allegedly)
We have enough players to go around. OK we might lose some of our best - but you dont hear Kerry folk complaining about Tadhg Kennelly. Dubs would have loved Stynes to be their midfield dynamo
we lose players to work, injury, drink, women, emigration etc all the time.
A handful of lads , a couple from each county even - at worst - will not make a huge difference. It might make a difference between a county winning a championship game, but we are an ameteur sport, we cannot combat this migration unless we offer jobs through our county sponsors etc.
I dont think its a bad thing for our lads to get the chance of making big money in oz rather than stay here in Ireland working as a boring sales rep or window glazier etc when they could be fulfilling their dreams and bank balances.
I think we are actually wrong to stop this. If they dont make it , they will be back soon.
If they do, we should be proud of them.
imo.
I think we're being very naive here. I can't think of anything we can do about it, but I think it's potentially a huge problem. The scale of the thing has changed dramatically and so have international mobility, the value of the professional contracts and the attractiveness of the whole package. It used to be the odd lad here and there - five or so in ten years maybe. But now that there have been a few high profile successes it's becoming a big thing in the AFL and all the clubs want their own Irishmen. I understand there are also advantages relating to loopholes in their draft system that make recruiting Irish lads a very attractive option. They're setting up training camps here, for feck sake.
Maybe it's just a fad that will pass, but I don't think we can sit around just hoping for that. I don't want to see the GAA and our All-Ireland championship being turned into a feeder/nursery system for the professional entertainment business in Australia and become the equivalent of the League of Ireland in soccer.
I'm delighted personally for any young lad who has a dream of making a living from "sport" and makes it. (IMO, if you're paid for it, I don't call it sport, but never mind). But that consideration has no place in the thinking of the GAA in countering a threat to its purpose, which is to provide personal growth and fulfilment to youngsters and a service to the community through sport, not to be a cost-free R&D department for a commercial business in Australia.
I have mixed feelings about trying to negotiate a deal to compensate clubs. Yes, it would be reasonable to see the club get compensation, but that just legitimises and commercialises the whole thing.
I don't know what we can do, but I don't accept the "ah sure isn't it great for the lads" approach as a reasonable policy position for the GAA to adopt.
well put Hardy, burn them out!!! >:(
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2007, 11:22:22 AM
I think we're being very naive here. I can't think of anything we can do about it, but I think it's potentially a huge problem. The scale of the thing has changed dramatically and so has international mobility, the value of the professional contracts and the attractiveness of the whole package. It used to be the odd lad here and there - five or so in ten years maybe. But now that there have been a few high profile successes it's becoming a big thing in the AFL and all the clubs want their own Irishmen. I understand there are also advantages relating to loopholes in their draft system that make recruiting Irish lads a very attractive option. They're setting up training camps here, for feck sake.
Maybe it's just a fad that will pass, but I don't think we can sit around just hoping for that. I don't want to see the GAA and our All-Ireland championship being turned into a feeder/nursery system for the professional entertainment business in Australia and become the equivalent of the League of Ireland in soccer.
I'm delighted personally for any young lad who has a dream of making a living from "sport" and makes it. (IMO, if you're paid for it, I don't call it sport, but never mind). But that consideration has no place in the thinking of the GAA in countering a threat to its purpose, which is to provide personal growth and fulfilment to youngsters and a service to the community through sport, not to be a cost-free R&D department for a commercial business in Australia.
I have mixed feelings about trying to negotiate a deal to compensate clubs. Yes, it would be reasonable to see the club get compensation, but that just legitimises and commercialises the whole thing.
I don't know what we can do, but I don't accept the "ah sure isn't it great for the lads" approach as a reasonable policy position for the GAA to adopt.
I understand what you are saying, but in all honesty I could not consciously allow myself to stop a lad from playing another sport or go do his own thing.
From small coaching exp, you have to try and get the lads to keep coming to play football (hurling) but if they dont want to and have other interests, there is not much you can do.
Its not best for club sides, county teams even Irish intl rules side if players go off to play aussie rules (or rugby or soccer - Killian Sheridan of Cavan was the next great Cavan hope but he chose to play fo Celtic youths now reserves) but I dont think it is right to stop a lad going off to find his life elsewhere.
If so , why now - when we had swathes of Leitrim, Donegal, Clare, Kerry lads emigrating to foreign fields to work and play in decades not too long ago.
I look at it in that way.
Yes we are losing players, yes I would love them to stay here, but I think we would be wrong to try to stop them outwith getting them jobs with companies and/or trying to persuede them nicely to stay.
Next step is professionalism or semi pro - and we as an association can not sustain the finacial burden and overhead of this.
not naive , realistic.
Jaysus Hardy.
Step into the 21st century man.
Do you understand that the GAA dont own any players?
If a fella is playing a sport as a hobby & decides to stop it - it is not anyones business.
As for its not a sport if you get paid for it ::)
That is the opinion of someone who is seriously stuck in the dark ages
Where did I say we should stop anybody?
And have a good ould think before you ridicule amateur sport and the spirit of volunteerism as belonging to "the dark ages". For me, the coming age of individualism and pay-me-for-everything, may prove to be a lot darker than what you dismiss as "the dark ages".
There's a huge difference between sport for personal development and community service (as represented by the GAA) and professional entertainment run for the enrichment of a few and the exploitation of the community. Call it what you like, but it's not sport in my book. I can't see it as anything other than a branch of the global entertainment industry and I don't see a lot of difference between it and Disneyworld, to be honest.