Jack O Connor was on Saturday night chat show with Miriam O Callaghan promoting his new book and he came across as a whinger. He def has a chip on his shoulder.
Here is the article that appeared in the Sunday Indo
'Outsider' O'Connor grinds axe over snubbing by Kerry greats
Sunday June 24 2007
DAMIAN LAWLOR
JACK O'CONNOR has admitted that even after he was appointed Kerry senior football manager in 2004, he felt out of the loop because he never played senior football for the county during the golden age of the 1970s and early '80s and also because he came from a small isolated pocket of south Kerry.
In a frank new autobiography, O'Connor reveals what it felt like to be an 'outsider' who delivered two All-Ireland titles in three years.
He recalls being a selector under Páidí Ó Sé in 1997 when the team travelled to Newbridge to play Mick O'Dwyer's Kildare in a challenge game and describes how Micko offered a warm greeting to Páidí and the other selectors, but ignored him.
"I don't really care what Micko's reasons were for snubbing me," he writes. "He was a neighbour and it shouldn't have happened. A few years later, when I got the Kerry job, I thought that Mick O'Dwyer, after all he'd won, could have given an old phone call, politely offered some advice over a cup of coffee. There was nothing. No goodwill. No word. Not one of the '70s team or the four-in-a-row men called up. There was just a silence for the poor rustic from Dromid as they waited for him to screw up."
O'Connor also recalls the embarrassment he felt while at the Kerry Sports Star of the Year awards in 2006 when former player Jimmy Deenihan publicly expressed his wish that O'Dwyer would finish his coaching career as manager of the Kerry team. At that time the Dromid Pearses man saw that as a serious slight on his own position.
The book, Keys to the Kingdom, is an honest and witty account of life in modern day management.
In the 200-page memoir O'Connor also documents some disagreements he had with current Kerry manager Pat O'Shea.
"I've a good relationship with the Dr Crokes players on the team but had the odd run-in with Pat O'Shea. After we'd announced the (Kerry senior) team for the league final, Pat rang me and asked was it OK for Eoin Brosnan to go with Crokes to play an old Kerry league game down in Cahirciveen on the Saturday, the day before the league final. 'Be good for his confidence', said O'Shea pointedly. I asked if this was some sort of wind-up. It wasn't. Well, wouldn't it be great for Eoin's 'confidence', I said, if he came on in the league final and just cut loose.
"I was stunned. Asking a county player to play a Kerry league game in Cahirciveen against a weak side when the county team is playing for a national title the following day."
O'Connor also criticised O'Shea's contribution to an article in this newspaper last year amid rumours of unrest in the camp. "The Sunday Indo ran a piece that was a compilation of some of the rumours which have been going around. I don't know where most of the stuff came from but I was disappointed to see Pat O'Shea quoted in there. He should have stayed out of it, but he was quoted as saying we were playing a style alien to Kerry. A football man should know the story better than anyone about having a go."
Another incident which upset the former Kerry manager was a text message he received shortly after the 2006 All-Ireland final when he included clubmate Declan O'Sullivan in the final selection at Eoin Brosnan's expense, which indirectly took the captaincy off Colm Cooper and handed it back to O'Sullivan.
"No matter how gently you tread, you've walked on a few dreams in picking an All-Ireland team," he remembers. "Word of the team travelled fast. At five past nine, when I was driving home, I heard the beeping of the mobile. Here we go. 'You should be ashamed of yourself by upsetting a winning team. Hope it backfires on you and I mean it.'
"I don't recognise the number but the text has come so quickly after the end of training that I know it can't be coming from anyone too far away from the heart of the team. It hurts. I get home. Shaken. Wounded. Everyone is up but eventually Bean an Tí drifts up to bed. I fetch one of the boys' mobile phones and ring the number on loudspeaker. 'Hello?' The hair stands up on the back of my neck when I hear the voice. I expected some flack from up Killarney way, but this is from inside the camp. The voice belongs to a close relative of one of the team.
"I realise straight away too when I hear the voice that the text wasn't meant to be sent anonymously. The sender would have assumed that I would have the number. I was better off not knowing. I've made a mistake in wanting to find out. It's just a bad, bad thing, knowing where the text came from. A knife through me."
From the bits I've read so far I can't wait to get my hands on it.
Bit of both really. So Micko didnt call him.
I strangely enough have great respect for jack, i wish to god he could impart some of his confidence on another county that i like a lot.I heard that the abuse he got from fans and others in kerry was unreal despite winning two out of three allirelands with the team.Its a case of kerry people being too greedy.Wait until the famine returns as it did from 86 to 97, what will they say then.I will by his book because from what I know from his neighbours in kerry he is no nonsense and a genuine man.
Mick odwyer is better left to talk for himself, i cannot stand him and his cute old hoor ways.
When you have as many titles as kerry its easy to be disrespectful to the lads in the boat at present.I bet in donegal and derry their players and management get a lot of respect for the winning teams of the early nineties.
It seems to be written in the same extremely annoying style Páidí's book was. "Had an egg for breakfast. Soft-boiled. 3 minutes. Savage. The wife had a couple of rashers on her plate. Streaky. I hopped into the car to go to work. Toyota. Avensis. Turned the key in the ignition. Started. Got to the bottom of the drive. Left. Right. Drive on. Powerful." And so on and so forth.
I also have great repoect for O'Connor Winning 2/3 AI is no mean feat for any team. I think it was the Tyrone itch that he couldn't scratch that seemed to turn a lot of the Kerry contingent against him
I also have to laugh at the 'kerry football' accusations levelled at him. Nowhere but nowhere is cute hoorism more evident than in kerry - if they had to play dirty and scrappy to win so be it. I'm quite sure they would've played with tennis rackets or hockey sticks to win if that's what was deemed necessary.
It amazes me the grief some managers get from fans and pundits alike. O'Connor was one. Micky Moran, who I generally had little time for, is another - to guide Mayo to the AI final in his first season and then get the sack!!! Mayo folk that critisice him must have some brass necks or some massively unrealistic expectations.
Nice one, Jinxy. :D
Just saw the book in Hodges Figgis' now. It's ghosted by Tom Humphries, which people were probably able to guess from Jack's Irish Times columns - "On Sunday, a blond bombshell from Kilmacud was the chief gunslinger."
That don't sound like no Kerryman to me. ::)
Quote from: tyroneman on June 26, 2007, 01:50:30 PM
Micky Moran, who I generally had little time for, is another - to guide Mayo to the AI final in his first season and then get the sack!!! Mayo folk that critisice him must have some brass necks or some massively unrealistic expectations.
Mickey and John got more from their time with Mayo than Mayo got from Mickey and John. Morrison said at the post All-Ireland final dinner in CityWest that it had always been his ambition to be involved in an All-Ireland final and now that dream had come true. Mayo had already been involved in a number of All-Ireland finals in the past ten years, and were looking for something more. And will be making no apologies for it either.
Agreed about the style. Wink and nudge language if you will; any danger of a few structured sentences??
The Kerry job is the always the same anyways. O'Se got an awful doin as well, as did Moran et al. No change really
QuoteMickey and John got more from their time with Mayo than Mayo got from Mickey and John
SO basically the brief for a first time manager taking over the reigns at Mayo is...win the AI in yr first year or yr out???? :o
Jaysus yis are harsh down that way...................................
In Tyrone we give a manager 2 years to in an All Ireland - EVERY TWO YEARS!
2 out of 3 is excellent but he never beat Mickey Harte in the champsionship, him and the Pony. Unfinished business without a shadow of a doubt, but the business he did finish , he finished it well..
From the couple of extracts I read its certainly cringe whatever about whinge. I can't stnd fellows with chips on their shoulder and if all he has to worry about in life is that somebody did not ring him up to wish him well then he is lucky. He wanted the job, nobody pushed him into it and he knew damn well there are always a few begrudgers about. I am beginning to get sentimental for the days when managers did not write books!!!
QuoteTyronies actaully believe that because he didn't ever beat them that he had "unfinished business".
Wasn't the Tyronies that came up with that theory I'm afraid. I remember an article in a Sunday broadsheet (or maybe it was the Irish News) which talked about how Kerry beating Mayo was deemed insignificant in the kingdom and how they immediately talked about needing to beat Tyrone to feel they had won it properly.
Now for a county with over 30 AIs I took this with a pinch of salt but I have heard that opitnion come out of Kerry more than once...................................................
I don't mind Jack giving a poke in the eye to some of his detractors, he's more than earned the right.
A minority of Kerry folk can be proper sense-of-entitlement little bastards at times and don't know when they're well off, another short drought might bring some of these 'animals' back into line. Whatever about Micko and Co. snubbing him and not calling him, the amount of shite he had to put with, phone calls and abuse and so on, must have been pretty hard to take. I always get the sense he was made to feel inferior or cold-shouldered somewhat for not being one of the golden boys of the seventies and eighties and now feels he has the right to take a pop at all those who thought they knew better. The manner of Kerry's win last year when it looked hairy earlier in the year was a big big vindication of Jack's management.
And who among us wouldn't feel like doing the same if we were in his shoes?
I have the utmost respect for Jack O Connor and im glad he is telling his side of the story and writing about those who forced his hand and made him retire. I also enjoy his column in the Times.
I did hear a few personal stories of his man management of certain players. With out saying too much he went well out of his way to look after some of the players that had personal troubles while he was in charge.
There were people in Kerry that didnt want to see him as manager since day one just because he didnt star as a county player himself. He proved them all wrong. Fair play.
Some shocking revelations. Kerrymen can text.
Did'nt read any of the book excerpts yet but saw his interview on Miriam. (well done to whoever picks the guests for that show. Jack really fitted in well with Samantha Mumba and Louis Walsh etc!).
I've always had great respect for him. He put real steel in to Kerry and was very unlucky not to achieve a 3 in a row in an era that was much more difficult than that which the Kerry teams in the 80's did so. In interviews and general media dealings he was always intelligent and direct and never went in for any of the loveable rogue/cute hoor shite of Micko and Paidi.
However I was a little disappointed with the way he's appearing to whinge at the moment. He won 2 AI's out of 3. Nothing to prove to anybody. Surely he could move on and let his silverware speak for him? What he's complaining about seems petty enough. Micko and members of the Kerry 80s sides not calling to congratulate him or "offer a word of advice"? I imagine some of them kept their distance so as not to appear interfering and the last thing most new managers to a job need is advice from high profile predessorss. Jacko always came across as a man who liked to do things his way anyway. I'm also not sure that Jimmy Deenihan's comments were really that offensive. Surely he was just being a typical politician throwing out a soundbite and probably meant that Micko would manage Kerry again "someday" rather than replace O'Connor?
Of course the abuse and vicious texts cant be condoned but then again the people that spew that type of trash are sadly in every club and county. That doesnt excuse it but it at the same time you'd imagine Jack would hardly be shocked by it.
All in all he came across to me as being hyper sensitive and insecure. I hope he returns to the management fold again with some other county if not Kerry. I think he's a great manager and would be excellent and developing a lesser county.
Agree Ross Matt he is a little sensitive . Maybe all managers are like this ? The abuse in Kerry is not funny and is the worst in the country
Fair play to him, have a great deal of respect for the man.
After all, Paudi said it best, "they're a bunch of f**king Animals" :P
In all honesty, Kerry players, management and supporters and even those who don't follow the football are wrecked with depression over the fact they haven't beaten Tyrone in Championship football since 1986, 21 years ago. In the interim any Kerry All-Ireland has been a hollow one and if KM looks deep into his soul he'll see the burning pain. Can't get the photos onto the memory card, they're saved on the buckin phone.
A burning pain to win 2 in a row thats all. We are not fussy in Kerry who we bate as long as we win.
Remind us all where were Tyrone hiding in 97, 00, 04 and 06 :P
As for 86 now that was a whipping, 15 point turnaround in the second half. Sent you a PM
I must admit i cant wait to read o Connors book..he comes across as a super man manager who doesnt spoof like others...ive heard reliable stories that he really looks after his players...As regards that interview with the beautiful Miriam..how interested was mumba?? she looked entralled! :P Id love o Connor to manage Galway..spread the rumour..O Connor for the Galway job!!!! ;D
Quote from: tyroneman on June 26, 2007, 04:33:58 PM
QuoteTyronies actaully believe that because he didn't ever beat them that he had "unfinished business".
Wasn't the Tyronies that came up with that theory I'm afraid. I remember an article in a Sunday broadsheet (or maybe it was the Irish News) which talked about how Kerry beating Mayo was deemed insignificant in the kingdom and how they immediately talked about needing to beat Tyrone to feel they had won it properly.
Now for a county with over 30 AIs I took this with a pinch of salt but I have heard that opitnion come out of Kerry more than once...................................................
Ya and those views mean that here in Mayo alot of people not alone waiting to win Sam but to beat Kerry in a Final so early and by so much that they know what it means to get bate. Its annoying hearing Kerry people devalue theor victories over us, because we can do something quite regulary which they can't, beat Tyrone.
I have never heard a Kerry person devalue an All ireland regardless of who they beat in the final. That Tyrone lad is trying to wind you up.
I've no doubt they would love to meet and beat Tyrone, just as they did Armagh, because there is a score to settle. Jaysus sake, they'd love to hammer Offaly in an All Ireland to get revenge for 1982. But they would never rubbish an All ireland win no matter who they beat in the final.
(http://www.penguin.co.uk/static/covers/all/6/3/9781844881536H.jpg)
Will hopefully pick up a copy at the weekend and get stuck into it.
Interesting comments re his reimbursement for loss of earnings. County board had no problem giving Jack money for his half days in addition to expenses and phone calls etc
By Martin Breheny
Thursday June 28 2007
JACK O'CONNOR and the Kerry County Board are to face a major GAA probe following an #astonishing admission by the former manager that he was reimbursed for financial losses last year.
If O'Connor and/or the County Board officers who sanctioned the payments are found to have breached the rules on amateurism, they could face a six-month suspension or expulsion from the GAA.
O'Connor has admitted he worked half days as a teacher in 2006 and that he became a full-time football manager in the afternoons, for which he was reimbursed by the Kerry County Board in a deal which, according to him, was readily conceded.
"I said to the County Board that for me this was the only way to operate. It was done," he wrote in his autobiography.
However, the Kerry County Board have strongly denied that any such arrangement existed, insisting that the only extra benefit O'Connor received over and above normal GAA expenses was a family holiday which was awarded to him after the 2006 All-Ireland final success.
"There was no question of paying for a sub teacher or anything like that. Everything was totally above board. I accept that the way it appears in the book might give the impression that we paid him directly for missing time from teaching but there was never any question of the Kerry County Board breaking the GAA's rules on amateurism," said Kerry chairman, Seán Walsh.
The GAA became aware of the controversy yesterday and, while no official comment was forthcoming, a senior insider acknowledged that an investigation would have to be undertaken.
"If a county manager states he was reimbursed for financial losses arising from taking time off to look after a team, we have to investigate. That type of deal is totally at odds with our amateur status rules," he said.
O'Connor, who led Kerry to All-Ireland successes in 2004 and 2006, quit last autumn.
He wrote in his book that when he became manager in succession to Páidí Ó Sé in late 2003, he received standard GAA expenses only.
Over a period of time the hectic schedule left him "tired and cranky" and impacted on his family, his job and the Kerry team.
It prompted him to seek a renegotiation of his arrangements for 2006 "for my sanity and for the team and for the family".
The terms of that renegotiation will now come under detailed scrutiny which could have major implications for O'Connor, the Kerry County Board and the GAA's rules on amateurism.
WAS THIS RULE BROKEN?
Rule 11 of the Official Guide
AMATEUR STATUS
The Association is an Amateur Association. A player, team, official, or member shall not accept payment in cash or in kind in conjunction with the playing of Gaelic Games.
A player, team, official or member shall not contract himself/itself to any agent other than those officially approved by the Central Council. Expenses paid to all officials, players and members shall not exceed the standard rates laid down by the Central Council.
Members of the Association may not participate in full-time training. This rule shall not prohibit the payment of salaries or wages to employees of the Association.
PENALTY: 24 weeks' suspension or expulsion
- Martin Breheny
Monaghan for Sam I say if this happens!! :o
If the ban were to be applied retrospectivly ..............
Mayo ALLIRELAND Champions 2006 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: rosnarun on June 28, 2007, 09:54:11 AM
If the ban were to be applied retrospectivly ..............
Mayo ALLIRELAND Champions 2006 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I was thinking the very same thing on the way to work this morning :D
Excellent manager - who has given the 2 fingers to the cabal of 70's players in kerry who believe they wrote the last will and testament as regards Gaelic football. Fair play to him - other counties would bend over backwards to get him.
Found many of the Kerry 70's team to be bloody obnoxious to be honest- one or two like Jacko or Mikey sheehy are fine but i wouldn't have any time for the rest. what deenihan said was scandalous- and jack is entitled to get his own bacl -papers like the kerryman would want to come out of the dark ages
I really like and highly rate OConnor.
He saw how Kerry were beaten and went away and prepared his team to play in a different manner for the following championship.
A smart man, a rival to mickey harte in tactical astuteness.
I will buy that book and cant wait to read it.
The man got credit, but prob not nearly as much as people should be giving him
A good man, a great manager.
Feck the begrudgers
Dont think that he really gives too much of a damn about tyrone !
He won two AI in the three years he was manager, Tyrone won 1
O Connor was a decent hardworking manager, who I believed would have won more all Irelands if he had stayed on but with that type of manners why would he? Tactiaclly whilst he never got the better of Mickey Haret he was certainly up there with him. Harte has won 2 all Irelands in the same space as well so if anything is the better manager because he won the head to head.
3 Finals on a trot, won 2 easily, lost one in a tight hard match.
Defo going to be getting the book @ lunch time.
Look alot of those 70-80's team lads aren't as hot as they think Jacko failed in Mayo, Paidai is failing in Clare, Micko only did average with Kildare & Laois, Mickey Ned is failing in Limerick, not slagging the lads but its unfair to dismiss the man solely because he wasn't part of the so called Golden Era.
Quote from: Fishead_Sam on June 28, 2007, 10:45:24 AM
Micko only did average with Kildare & Laois.
In fairness to him he had two great spells with kildare, that kildare team were class to watch when they were on top of their game and they reached an all-ireland final
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 28, 2007, 10:26:21 AM
He won two AI in the three years he was manager, Tyrone won 1
In fairness, in Mickey's first three years, it was Tyrone = 2 Kerry = 1.
That said, I think that O'Connor was a great manager for Kerry. I was unawares of some of the attitude he was getting from some of the people of Kerry. Quite frankly it is unwarrented. O'Connor had greater competition in his three years, than the 70's team. He didn't get the respect he deserves.
My advice, go to Mayo and win the All-Ireland there..... beating Kerry in the final! ;)
The great Mickey Hart v Jack O'Connor debate.
Fact is Kerry won more titles than Tyrone in the time they were sparring even if Tyrone did win the one head to head (narrowly - if deserverably so).
Jack record of 2 All-Ireland, 2 Munster Championships and 2 national Leagues is damb impressive in any era.
Jack was a fantastic manager, hard as nails but he did seem a bit thin skinned with some of the incidents mentioned.
The Deenihan thing is an example of a political saying the politically correct thing at a function, Jack's wasn't going to stay Kerry manager forever and Deenihan said he hoped one day Micko would finish by managing Kerry, he certainly didn't say sack Jack and appoint Micko......but that is what Jack seemed to hear.
Micko not contacting him to say well done is a really strange one, if he did and offered advice would Jack say he tried to interfere?
Not really happy with the outsider thing either south Kerry always had a presence on the Kerry team this seems to be a bit of paranoia on Jacks part.
Jack complained about Pat O'Shea interfering with the team last year yet the book launch is in the week of a major game - what will the scribes be asking Pat about this week I wonder.
The whole thing with the finances could have been left out too the county board could have done without that pressure this week.
The thing I hope that isn't in the book is a public statement on any internal row that happened between players during Jack's reign, it would be a shame if players had to address those issues in the coming weeks.
I have no issue with Jack making a few quid out of the book but honesty he could have launched it next November instead this book will follow the Kerry team around for the rest of the summer.
What was the old saying 'If you are not helping you are..........'
Can't blame Jack for releasing his tome now, it's all part of the publishing merry-go-round, i.e., maximising the publicity, controversy, etc., and sales (and perhaps a lot of it out of his hands). Neither can he be blamed for calling it exactly as he sees it now and saw it then, and whether that comes across as being a little hypersensitive is totally subjective, but without dishing that 'dirt' it would be somewhat of an anaemic read perhaps.
Was Micko's snub a bit of local Waterville-Dromid rivalry in that part of the Iveragh Peninsula?
His is an impressive record, fit to stand with the best of them, and it's fair to say Kerry would not have had the success they did have without having had him at the helm.
QuoteTyrone did win the one head to head (narrowly - if deserverably so).
EH? The scoreline in no way reflected how that game progressed. Bar the first 10-15min Tyrone dominated that game and bar the 2nd Kerry goal it could have got very embarrassing for the kingdom.
I thought O Connor conducted himself with great dignity during his tenure under obvious internal pressure. If within Kerry he stands accused of bringing a harder northern edge to Kerry football then he has been an undoubted success. I believed in 2003 that most of that Kerry team were done. He played about with it rebranded them as game footballers and won 2 AItitles with a few new guys. Another manager would not have tried to ape the Nothern programme, he was brave enough to do it. If 2 ALL iRELANDS makes you unpopular in Kerry then the kerry supporters and ex player brigade need to question themselves. They have been living off the fat of their success for too long. Thats quite interesting when they won the all ireland in 2004 Seany Walshe made the unfortunate remarks about Kerry winning playing football the way it was meant to be played. This was a poorly disguised dig at Tyrone and armagh. So then why when the era is over is he accused of aping the style?
QuoteThe whole thing with the finances could have been left out too the county board could have done without that pressure this week
Why should it have been left out?
F'ing typical. Guys in civil service jobs have the capacity to take days off work to pursue their passtime and then get paid for loss of earnings.
I havent seen the detail of this book and maybe Jack O'Connor has declared the income and paid tax on it, if so fair play to him.
If not, then I hope the Revenue Commissioners will be in contact.
what is his problem with northern teams. in days gone by if cork had a poor team kerry had just all ireland semi final and final to play.
whinging bastard.
Quote from: twotwocharlie on June 28, 2007, 02:54:31 PM
what is his problem with northern teams. in days gone by if cork had a poor team kerry had just all ireland semi final and final to play.
whinging bastard.
Ya but that Semi was against those great Connacht or Ulster teams of the 1970's & 1980'S ;D
Did anyone read the back page of the Irish news today
Very interesting extracts from his book aobut how much he hates Tyrone and its worse losing to them and to anyone else
Still I think he left at the right time if there was all this attitude from within the county
He congratulates Canavan on his great rugby tackle on Gooch near the end of 2005
This appeared in the Irish News
JACK OF ALL TIRADES
Former Kerry manager Jack O Connor has claimed that "losing to Tyrone is worse than losing to almost anyone else", citing the "arrogance" of northern football as the reason for that.
The Dromid Pearse's clubman also argued that Armagh's All-Ireland final victory over the Kingdom "cut us deeply...went to the core of the team". Instead, O'Connor conceded that the Championship defeats to the Orchard County in 2002 and the Red Hands in 2003 and 2005 were three of four "landmark disasters in recent Kerry football", the other being the 2001 All-ireland semi final-thrashing by Meath.
In his book 'Keys to the Kingom' O'Connor also criticised Peter Canavan for "cynically" taking out Kerry forward Colm Cooper in the closing stages of the 2005 All-Ireland final. Defeat in that game was the only loss O'Connor's Kerry forward Colm Cooper in the closing stages of the 2005 All-ireland final in his three seasons in charge, winning the other two convincingly against Mayo, in 2004 and last year. However, he acknowledged that "Losing to Tyrone is worse than losing to almost anyone else. Not that there's much history between us. That's the point. There's an arrogance to northern football which rubs Kerry people up the wrong way. They're flash and nouveau riche and full of it."
O'Connor went on to explain the Kingdom view that successful Ulster sides talk too much: "Add up the number of All-Ireland titles the Ulsrer counties have won and it's less than a third of Kerry's total [actually the tally is 15 to 34, bit strange, only counting northern ireland teams, i dunno), but northern teams advertise themselves well.
"They talk about how they did it [you're the one writing a big book!], they go on and on about this theory and that practice as if they'd just split the atom. They build up a mythology about themselves. That doesn't sit well in Kerry where a man with four all-irelands would quietly defer to a man who has five."
Yet O'Connor revealed that he turned to Ulster in order to improve after 2005: "I plunder the Ulster GAA council website, which is full of essays and drills on tackling...I phone contacts in Ulster. What do Armagh do? What do Tyrone do? This is almost a betrayal of my Kerry blood, to be asking how they do things up north. One day I meet with a very prominent northern football man who knows exactly what they do. We sit for a few hours as he shows me drills, gives me ideas, opens up a new world of work to me."
O'Connor admitted that their 2004 All-Ireland victory was tainted: "Our journey didn't take us into the path of Armagh or Tyrone, though. We won, but deep down in our hearts in Kerry we don't feel as if that 2004 All-Ireland took football back for us."
The following year, Tyrone triumphed in the all-ireland final, and O'Connor acknowledged "We were out-fought and out-thought by a tougher team. That sort of thing hurts in Kerry. It hurts me." Still O'Connor complained about some of the treatment received by Colm Cooper: "After a good start Gooch got hit by a flake at a time when he was threatening to cut loose. It affected Gooch for 15 minutes before half time. He was out of it for a while."
The then Kerry boss also lambasted Tyrone goalscorer Canavan: "in the final minute of the game (which was a minute shorter than it was supposed to be anyway) Peter Canavan's last act on the big stage was to cynically take Gooch out of it...he knew too that no referee was going to send Peter the Great off in his hour of glory."
---
Phew. Anyways, what Canavan did wasn't a sending off offence he pulled Cooper down, Cooper then gave him a big of a dig because Canavan had fallen down too. Far worse things happen. The whole language of taken out suggests that he punched him or something, but things get exaggerated. If it could be constituted a rugby tackle, it was the weakest rugby challenge i've ever saw. It didn't matter anyway, Tyrone got the ball anyway, ref blew up. McMenamin did the exact same as Canavan except rougher seconds before to Tomas O'Se, McGuigan was "rabbit punched" in the stomach by Galvin in the first half, Canavan was dragged around like a piece of dirt in the first-half, but who cares about that i suppose.
O'Connor seems to be doing his best to wind people up anyway, plenty of publicity. And I don't know about our arrogance, considering people like Sean Walsh said the rules should be changed (and saying in 2004 that Kerry played football how it should be played), Spillane nearly combusted etc (and still goes on and on about Ulster football in the most patronising way in his articles in the sunday world).
In saying all this, still like O'Connor, great manager, and i'm wouldn't be too aware of the pressures he was under, he did a great job.
QuoteMcGuigan was "rabbit punched" in the stomach ...................
??? ??? ??? ???
Ill buy his book but ive lost a lot of respect for him so far from reading the clips. At least he dosent take a beating well and to all that doubted theres no question that he has unfinished business with Tyrone, his knock out at Canavan is immature, Gooch tears, ffs. I suppose he never mentioned Daragh O Ses tackling against the young Cork midfielder in the ai semis this year. Its over and done with. He reaffirms that Kerry arrogance again unwittingly even when they are accusing others of being arrogant, a why do you not respect me attitude, accuses us of a neaveaux riche attitude, is this taken direct from Spillanes handbook. To accuse a province is bullshit.
An interesting character, warts and all book should be even more interesting than he ever was. he was after all a secoond rate manager in comparison to Mickey Harte and couldnt lace Peter Canavans boots on the field. in fact I think his chip on shoulder is due to a lack of personal talent especially in a county where he was born surrounded by it. He will in my opinion go down as an opportunist aiwinning manager of the highest order. His graceful spoprtsmanship after the aif in 2005 must sadly now portrayed as disingenuous having sold his soul for a publishers gold. Good luck to him. After all, how does it feel to be a common as muck double all ireland winning manager. At least Spillane says it as it is.
As far i i know Jack O'Connor has been on local radio today and has said his quotes in the book are exagerated and that he only got 50 cent a km and his phone paid for the year and a family holiday because he did not go on the team trip to Australia. Sean Walsh was also on Radio Kerry and concurred with this . So is this just the publishers hyping up the book in the week its launched and making a mountain of a mole hill.
If its true that Jack got paid you could also ask who pays for Nickey Brennan while he takes 3 years off from his job to be the full time president of the GAA?
This is just a bad week for a book launch, I am sure Billy Morgan will have any negative Cork comments printed out and on the dressing room door in Killarney on Sunday as if the fecking Langers did not need any more motivation to beat us.
Quotethey go on and on about this theory and that practice as if they'd just split the atom. They build up a mythology about themselves.
Its a fair point. How much shite did we have to listen to after Armaghs win in 2002 i.e wristbands, new tactics as well as countless articles about the mystical togetherness of the team and the boys going back into the gym 10 mins after the AI blah, blah...
Then Tyrone follow up with Mickey Harte writing a book and more bloody mystical meg crap...jesus, it would do your head in.
The mans a bad loser (as are a lot of people on here) but that's no bad thing in my book, don't respect him any less
You have to accept the All-Ireland champions, they earn the right to dish out whatever shite they want to the media/critics ie Armagh Tyrone and Kerry
His slur on Ulster is almost a clash of personalities in recent years
QuoteAt least Spillane says it as it is.
Finally, a Tyrone man who admits they play "puke football"
Thanks for your honesty.
Quoteslur on Ulster
Nothing in what he says is a slur. Just some home truths.
Anyway, we are sick of listening to ye're shite about Munster and constantly demeaning us. Its time for some payback.
Quote from: SuperDooperCooper on June 28, 2007, 04:54:23 PM
This appeared in the Irish News
JACK OF ALL TIRADES
Former Kerry manager Jack O Connor has claimed that "losing to Tyrone is worse than losing to almost anyone else", citing the "arrogance" of northern football as the reason for that.
The Dromid Pearse's clubman also argued that Armagh's All-Ireland final victory over the Kingdom "cut us deeply...went to the core of the team". Instead, O'Connor conceded that the Championship defeats to the Orchard County in 2002 and the Red Hands in 2003 and 2005 were three of four "landmark disasters in recent Kerry football", the other being the 2001 All-ireland semi final-thrashing by Meath.
In his book 'Keys to the Kingom' O'Connor also criticised Peter Canavan for "cynically" taking out Kerry forward Colm Cooper in the closing stages of the 2005 All-Ireland final. Defeat in that game was the only loss O'Connor's Kerry forward Colm Cooper in the closing stages of the 2005 All-ireland final in his three seasons in charge, winning the other two convincingly against Mayo, in 2004 and last year. However, he acknowledged that "Losing to Tyrone is worse than losing to almost anyone else. Not that there's much history between us. That's the point. There's an arrogance to northern football which rubs Kerry people up the wrong way. They're flash and nouveau riche and full of it."
O'Connor went on to explain the Kingdom view that successful Ulster sides talk too much: "Add up the number of All-Ireland titles the Ulsrer counties have won and it's less than a third of Kerry's total [actually the tally is 15 to 34, bit strange, only counting northern ireland teams, i dunno), but northern teams advertise themselves well.
"They talk about how they did it [you're the one writing a big book!], they go on and on about this theory and that practice as if they'd just split the atom. They build up a mythology about themselves. That doesn't sit well in Kerry where a man with four all-irelands would quietly defer to a man who has five."
Yet O'Connor revealed that he turned to Ulster in order to improve after 2005: "I plunder the Ulster GAA council website, which is full of essays and drills on tackling...I phone contacts in Ulster. What do Armagh do? What do Tyrone do? This is almost a betrayal of my Kerry blood, to be asking how they do things up north. One day I meet with a very prominent northern football man who knows exactly what they do. We sit for a few hours as he shows me drills, gives me ideas, opens up a new world of work to me."
O'Connor admitted that their 2004 All-Ireland victory was tainted: "Our journey didn't take us into the path of Armagh or Tyrone, though. We won, but deep down in our hearts in Kerry we don't feel as if that 2004 All-Ireland took football back for us."
The following year, Tyrone triumphed in the all-ireland final, and O'Connor acknowledged "We were out-fought and out-thought by a tougher team. That sort of thing hurts in Kerry. It hurts me." Still O'Connor complained about some of the treatment received by Colm Cooper: "After a good start Gooch got hit by a flake at a time when he was threatening to cut loose. It affected Gooch for 15 minutes before half time. He was out of it for a while."
The then Kerry boss also lambasted Tyrone goalscorer Canavan: "in the final minute of the game (which was a minute shorter than it was supposed to be anyway) Peter Canavan's last act on the big stage was to cynically take Gooch out of it...he knew too that no referee was going to send Peter the Great off in his hour of glory."
---
Phew. Anyways, what Canavan did wasn't a sending off offence he pulled Cooper down, Cooper then gave him a big of a dig because Canavan had fallen down too. Far worse things happen. The whole language of taken out suggests that he punched him or something, but things get exaggerated. If it could be constituted a rugby tackle, it was the weakest rugby challenge i've ever saw. It didn't matter anyway, Tyrone got the ball anyway, ref blew up. McMenamin did the exact same as Canavan except rougher seconds before to Tomas O'Se, McGuigan was "rabbit punched" in the stomach by Galvin in the first half, Canavan was dragged around like a piece of dirt in the first-half, but who cares about that i suppose.
O'Connor seems to be doing his best to wind people up anyway, plenty of publicity. And I don't know about our arrogance, considering people like Sean Walsh said the rules should be changed (and saying in 2004 that Kerry played football how it should be played), Spillane nearly combusted etc (and still goes on and on about Ulster football in the most patronising way in his articles in the sunday world).
In saying all this, still like O'Connor, great manager, and i'm wouldn't be too aware of the pressures he was under, he did a great job.
That'll be another 3 pages at least. ;D
A sub-standard opportunist manager if ever there was one. Exited the big stage knowing that he couldn't achieve back to back AI's with his limited tactical ability.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 28, 2007, 07:59:19 PM
Quoteslur on Ulster
Nothing in what he says is a slur. Just some home truths.
Anyway, we are sick of listening to ye're shite about Munster and constantly demeaning us. Its time for some payback.
Jeez Sheehy, you are one bitter bollix, amadán.
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 28, 2007, 08:38:11 PM
A sub-standard opportunist manager if ever there was one. Exited the big stage knowing that he couldn't achieve back to back AI's with his limited tactical ability.
There's been a lot of limited managers the last 18yrs then ::)
And you are a windy p***k Fear an srath Ban.
QuoteA sub-standard opportunist manager if ever there was one. Exited the big stage knowing that he couldn't achieve back to back AI's with his limited tactical ability.
More shitetalk from tymoanies
He got a hell of a lot closer to back to back AI than bushy brow and Michelin man
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 28, 2007, 07:59:19 PM
Quoteslur on Ulster
Nothing in what he says is a slur. Just some home truths.
Anyway, we are sick of listening to ye're shite about Munster and constantly demeaning us. Its time for some payback.
Dry your eyes Mike, Jesus yiz have the Sam Maguire down there every other year, you can take a bit of criticism when it resides elsewhere.
It's all jealousy, on both sides (though Munster is clearly weak as water)
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 28, 2007, 09:15:31 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 28, 2007, 07:59:19 PM
Quoteslur on Ulster
Nothing in what he says is a slur. Just some home truths.
Anyway, we are sick of listening to ye're shite about Munster and constantly demeaning us. Its time for some payback.
Dry your eyes Mike, Jesus yiz have the Sam Maguire down there every other year, you can take a bit of criticism when it resides elsewhere.
It's all jealousy, on both sides (though Munster is clearly weak as water)
Carefull now, I can see a Tsunami coming out of Munster yet this year.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 28, 2007, 09:01:21 PM
And you are a windy p***k Fear an srath Ban.
You can say little on this board without having a mean-spirited go Sheehy, a sad, sad individual. T'is no wonder you've left the Kingdom, I'd say even your own were sick to the back-teeth of you. Good riddens.
Surprised to see the anti-northern rhetoric in general, and anti-Tyrone vitriol in particular, being poured forth by Jack O'Connor in his book -- I've heard him at least twice on the TV saying that Kerry were beaten by a "great Tyrone team" in the 2005 final. So a) he's schizophrenic with a deep-seated mental problem regarding northern teams, or b) he's trying to sell a book. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (on this occasion) and go for b) ;)
Fecking books . I will hold all comments on the book until I read it . Munster v ulster .Everybody is getting so worked up ,
Jack's begiining to sound a little chip-shouldered about almost everything inside and outside his own county, and doesn't reflect the typical Kerry animal man or woman.
In terms of Harte v O'Connor I'd say there's very little between them in terms of tactical and managerial ability.
The big question is it the manager or the players ?. Jack won two and stepped aside Mikey is keeping going .both of them had a hell of a lot of talent at their disposal .Could any of them get this success with lesser talent at their disposal ?. God people seem to have forgotton the motto of the GAA "Hate thy neighbour"
Jesus Mike you are one bitter man. The best exponents of puke football are Kerry. I'm not saying that's abad thing but there isn't any point in throwing stones when you are sitting in the middle of a glasshouse. You may have won 30 odd all-irelands but jesus for a lot of them you only had two games a year.
You talk about wristbands and shite like that - i read more articles last year on Kerry's training methods ilike using harnesses on players to make them run quicker- of not having to do upper body weights and relying on leg weights-3 year plans etc etc- the amount of shite emanating from Flanagan last year was as bad as the shite we had to put up with in 2002 with Armagh.
I think it's a bit rich about a Kerryman complaining about other's training methods and puke football when they speak from the same pulpit themselves. Ulster Football has challenged Kerry fooball and Kerry don't like it because they believe they have a divine right to win All-Irelands fogetting the fact they play in the shitest province in Ireland.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 28, 2007, 09:56:44 PM
Surprised to see the anti-northern rhetoric in general, and anti-Tyrone vitriol in particular, being poured forth by Jack O'Connor in his book -- I've heard him at least twice on the TV saying that Kerry were beaten by a "great Tyrone team" in the 2005 final. So a) he's schizophrenic with a deep-seated mental problem regarding northern teams, or b) he's trying to sell a book. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (on this occasion) and go for b) ;)
I think Jack and all Kerry people admit it was a great Tyrone team that beat Kerry. 2 All-Irelands each in the last 4 years. Both having their star player retire. This year could be very interesting. I'd say advantage Tyrone due to their success underage.
I hope he's making plenty of money from the book casue otherwise its not worth it. Its a pity that to sell a book u have to come across as a bit of a moaner, casue up until now Id no problem with the man. The stuff about Canavan etc has stirred up the Tyrone rivalry again and Id love it if we met before the year is out. Would be some match and god help the Kerry one's if they lose cause I dont think the Tyrone fans would let them live it down for a few years. 2 good teams and thats what has built up the rivalry. Maybe Im biased but I feel another all Ireland for Tyrone or Kerry would leave them in the position as team of the decade.
Kerry are always forced to innovate by new teams that adopt some variation in tactics, Ulster teams like Antrim in 1940's or the 1960 Down team, or Heffo's Dubs. Kerry are good enough to adapt and win on the field, but only after some dubious tactics and a lot of whining.
from the archives of de Paper.
The Antrim players were apparently ahead of their time because they were playing a new brand of football, using the hand-pass to move the ball down the field. "It was the most spiritedly contested semi-final I have seen in years", according to a report in The Kerryman. "One team (Kerry) was playing Gaelic football, Antrim's was a brand of football characterised by over-holding the ball and throwing it. To stop ball-throwing movements the Kerry backs pulled the ball-throwers down. This is the answer to these tactics".
When Antrim protested, there was indignation in the Kerry press. The GAA Central Council met to consider the protest on the last Saturday in August and debated the issue for two hours before overruling the objection by 19 votes to 10.
"Antrim's advocates defeated their own case", according to The Kerryman. "Their autocratic bearing and dictatorial attitude roused the hostility of the southerners. The northerners were the self-appointed guardians of the association's honour; its reputation was their only concern; they were charged with redeeming the good name of the GAA which the Kerry rowdies had done so much to besmirch. All of which would be highly amusing if it were not so disgusting".
and
There were over 30,000 people at the game. Most of them were from the North. Kerry people stayed at home partly in protest at the price of a train ticket to Dublin — 27 shillings return!
QuoteI think Jack and all Kerry people admit it was a great Tyrone team that beat Kerry
Agreed but if we win another All Ireland this year and dont play Tyrone I dont care. Its all about winning the big silver bucket and thats most Kerry people care about, not who we play or beat.
Now lads its a fecking book, dont buy it if you dont agree with it, all books need a bit of controversy to sell. Fellows get wound up very easily around here .
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 28, 2007, 11:30:37 PM
QuoteI think Jack and all Kerry people admit it was a great Tyrone team that beat Kerry
Agreed but if we win another All Ireland this year and dont play Tyrone I dont care. Its all about winning the big silver bucket and thats most Kerry people care about, not who we play or beat.
Indeed KM, and I would never begrudge the Kingdom, regardless of whom you have and haven't met. Credit where it's due, and there's no doubting the Kingdom deserves it. ;)
QuoteYou can say little on this board without having a mean-spirited go Sheehy
There is nothing worse than highminded gobshites like you that issue personal insults and then
accuse others of being mean spirited.
QuoteIndeed KM, and I would never begrudge the Kingdom, regardless of whom you have and haven't met. Credit where it's due, and there's no doubting the Kingdom deserves it.
you are also a bare-faced liar I see. You know full well that if kerry win the AI this year and dont play Tyrone you'lll be on here talking shite about injuries and munster football etc etc
QuoteGood riddens
Is this some Ulster scots dialect or something ? twat.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 29, 2007, 02:06:05 AM
QuoteYou can say little on this board without having a mean-spirited go Sheehy
There is nothing worse than highminded gobshites like you that issue personal insults and then
accuse others of being mean spirited.
I reserve my venom for those who fully deserve it Sheehy, and you do. I honestly don't recall a post from you that hasn't some nastiness in it, you are an embarrassment. But you really should get your psychological issues seen to.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 29, 2007, 02:09:59 AM
QuoteIndeed KM, and I would never begrudge the Kingdom, regardless of whom you have and haven't met. Credit where it's due, and there's no doubting the Kingdom deserves it.
you are also a bare-faced liar I see. You know full well that if kerry win the AI this year and dont play Tyrone you'lll be on here talking shite about injuries and munster football etc etc
Prove that Sheehy, put up or shut up, show me where I have been guilty of not giving credit where it's due. You judge all of us by your low standards, but unlike you I don't tar all Kerry folk with the same brush.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on June 29, 2007, 02:09:59 AM
QuoteGood riddens
Is this some Ulster scots dialect or something ? twat.
OK, how about
good riddance... the sentiment's the same, and this fair isle's much the better for your absence.
Two real bitches here having a go at each other.
This is about jack oconnor and not two lesbos hating each other.
Quote from: mannix on June 29, 2007, 09:16:08 AM
Two real bitches here having a go at each other.
This is about jack oconnor and not two lesbos hating each other.
And you'd know all about that yeah?
Quote from: armaghniac on June 28, 2007, 10:44:22 PM
All of which would be highly amusing if it were not so disgusting".
That's a great line!!
Never mind all the bitch slapping, can anyone post any more extracts from the book or media reaction to it?
When does the book go on sale....no sign of it in Easons in Newry yet.
By Colm Keys
Friday June 29 2007
THE former Kerry manager Jack O'Connor took to the airwaves yesterday to dilute contentions he made in his recently published autobiography.
O'Connor's claims in the book, 'Keys to the Kingdom', that he was reimbursed through a financial "arrangement" with the Kerry County Board, allowing him to job-share at the school where he taught in 2006, have placed the GAA's amateur status in the spotlight once again and have left awkward questions for the Kerry County Board to answer.
Speaking on the Radio Kerry morning show 'Kerry Today' yesterday, however, O'Connor appeared to backtrack on his own words in the book by contending that the "arrangement" was nothing more than a family holiday last January to an exclusive resort in Lanzarote and regular mileage and phone expenses in accordance with GAA guidelines.
O'Connor said the use of the word "reimbursed" was "unfortunate" and he might have been better served calling it "compensation".
He said he restructured his own time at the school by taking classes in the mornings on the days he had training. But he insisted that there was no straight payment for time lost at school during this "arrangement" and all it amounted to was a private holiday which, he stressed, was within the rules of the GAA.
"In my particular case what I actually did was I scheduled most of my classes so when I said half days most of my classes would have been scheduled before lunch so that I had most afternoons off, just to clear my head a bit and prepare for training.
"The County Board said they would try to make up for that at the end of the year by sending myself and the family off on a good holiday and that's allowed within the amateur status guidelines of the GAA.
Sensationalise
"That's the unfortunate thing about it. Some people pick up on things in books and try to sensationalise it. That's the way media works, isn't it?"
He was joined on the show by Kerry chairman Seán Walsh who insisted there was no deal with O'Connor, except an agreement to cover all the expenses for the holiday to Lanzarote last January for O'Connor, his wife and two children.
Expanding on his explanation the previous day, Walsh gave his account of what was agreed.
"I told him the only way we could reimburse him was through a holiday, making sure he got a good holiday at the end of the year. All we ever paid Jack was vouched expenses and our accounts will clearly show that from travelling to Killarney and everywhere, matches all over the country. That was the only financial contribution made to Jack O'Connor.
"There was no deal hammered out with Jack O'Connor. I want to make that quite clear and there was no deal at any stage with his appointment on first day. All Jack ever got was vouched expenses per mile and in 2006 we completely paid his phone bill.
No question
"There as never a question paying substitute teachers or anything like that.
"Obviously scheduling would be a big thing for him on the days of his training, more free classes on the afternoons of Tuesday and Thursday. From our point of view, there was never a question at any stage of paying a substitute teacher," Walsh said.
O'Connor said he regretted the timing of the release of the book in the week of the Munster football final involving Kerry and old rivals Cork in Killarney on Sunday.
"That match was now being "overshadowed" which he said was "regrettable".
"That's the last thing I wanted to do. The timing of the release had nothing to do with me in a sense that it was the publisher's call to be honest with you. I would have preferred maybe if it was released a month ago or maybe in a week's time.
"In many ways maybe it will be a good thing for the team. There isn't much talk about the match so they can fly under the radar. If it was my choice the book wouldn't have been out this particular week but, like everybody else, when you sign a contract it is out of your own hands.
Exposure
"The publishers want maximum exposure and I suppose you'd want to do everything twice to know what's right."
O'Connor explained that he didn't go on the team holiday to Australia in January because he wanted a private family holiday instead.
"It's not usually the done thing for a holiday (for the entire family) at the end of the year. It's normally for a manager and his wife and the players and their partners.
"We as a management had decided to retire and I might have felt like a bit of an imposter.
"A new management had taken over at that stage and my involvement with the players was over.
"I was neglecting my own family for years being involved with county teams. Believe it or not it was only the second family holiday we ever took. I just wanted a private holiday away together."
O'Connor stressed that he would have lost money during his three years managing the Kerry football team.
"If you ask anyone involved in the GAA if they make money or if they lose money for their involvement the latter is what's true. You actually lose money."
Walsh said during the course of his interview that he could not recall how much the holiday cost but said it was a "quality" hotel for two weeks. O'Connor wasn't sure when he took the holiday but thought it was for about 10 days.
The lunch bell rings and then I'm a football manager in the afternoons. The County Board reimburses me for the financial losses incurred by the arrangement. "In fairness, I haven't had to battle for this deal. I said to the County Board that for me this was the only way to operate. It was done.' Jack O'Connor in his book 'Keys to the Kingdom'
The reimbursement I received from the County Board amounted to a family holiday for myself, my wife and my two children at the end of the season, something I felt well entitled to. 'Far from having made money from the GAA over the years, I often spent my own money for GAA business and as a result was out of pocket.' Jack O'Connor in a statement released by his publishers yesterday
The sh1t should hit the fan now
If he gets away with this, he will have got a savage amount of free publicity for his book
I will be shocked if the Kerry County board & O'Connor are pulled about this as it will be hard to prove that they reimbursed, sorry, compensated him :-X
Jack O'Connor on Des Cahill the other night that any publicity is good publicity - he's out to sell books - imagine talking about Peter taking out The Gooch ? It was a nothing incident - and he's trying to get a whole story going about it !
But at the same time I don't begrudge him - after all, everybody else is getting money out of the GAA !
(http://www.geocities.com/hardyarse/mouse.jpg)
Quote from: 5 Sams on June 29, 2007, 10:46:14 AM
When does the book go on sale....no sign of it in Easons in Newry yet.
Not in Eason in Ballina yet either, will try the Eason in Castlebar tomorrow.
Grist to the GPA's mill, from today's Irish Times:
Farrell questions GAA's amateur status
Gavin Cummiskey
GPA Reimbursement for managers: GPA Chief executive Dessie Farrell has questioned the definition of the GAA's amateur status in the wake of revelations by former Kerry manager Jack O'Connor, in his autobiography, that he received reimbursement from the county board.
"Perhaps certain aspects of the amateur ethos need to be reviewed. It will be very interesting to see what the GAA investigation throws up. I have the utmost sympathy for county boards because their hands are tied in this regard, and how do they surmount that challenge?
"Certain county boards do it through supporters clubs. Others do it themselves through expenses or whatever the case may be. I think in this particular instance the Kerry County Board have denied any wrongdoing and said all they did was pay for a holiday for Jack and his family. If you were to follow the letter of the law within the amateur status it's payment or payment in kind, so they've probably contravened the amateur ethos there.
"It's very difficult for county boards and administrators to address this issue and do it in such a way that they are staying within regulations, but yet allowing for the demand for and appetite for success from their players, their clubs and their supporters."
A GAA spokesman confirmed yesterday they would not be conducting an official investigation on the matter, but will seek an "explanation from the Kerry County Board". Chairman Seán Walsh and O'Connor went on local radio on Wednesday to deny any contravention of GAA rules.
However, this latest controversy brings the issue of pay-for-play back to the forefront. "It's been documented that managers have been in receipt of payment for a long time now, so I think this is an issue for the GAA," Farrell continued. "Do they continue to turn a blind eye? I know they've investigated it in the past and it hasn't turned up anything, so I'd have sympathy for managers in this professional era they operate in.
"A common-sense approach is what's required, and if that be certain aspects of the amateur ethos need to be looked at, well and good. Now I'm not for a minute advocating that we go down the road of professionalism, but I think it's been happening, we know it's been happening, and I think the issue needs to be addressed . . . the hypocrisy eradicated, perhaps."
Farrell noted this latest issue is only indirectly related to the players' plight over grant aid. That issue remains active and correspondence with the new Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism Séamus Brennan has already begun. A joint GAA/GPA meeting with Brennan is the next step.
"We're anxious to get that up and running again now that the new minister is in place. While we have said we are willing to investigate other avenues, we are still focused on the fact that there is a commitment on the table already from the Government, and if other alternatives don't work out we will be pursuing the one that's on the table."
Farrell was speaking at the launch of Bainisteoir - Hurling, a PC game similar to the soccer version called Championship Manager.
Designed by Nenagh brothers Pádraig and Fergal McDonnell of software company Tailteann Games, it is endorsed by the GPA, which enables player names and images to be used.
Also present was GAA national hurling director Paudie Butler and former Tipperary player and manager Nicky English. A fraction of the profits from the game, now available for €29, will be funnelled back to the GPA.
QuoteA common-sense approach is what's required, and if that be certain aspects of the amateur ethos need to be looked at, well and good. Now I'm not for a minute advocating that we go down the road of professionalism,
Well then what are you saying Dessie? You are right Fear, this is grist to their mill, but they need to be careful about letting their cat out of the bag.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 29, 2007, 01:33:36 PMFarrell was speaking at the launch of Bainisteoir - Hurling, a PC game similar to the soccer version called Championship Manager.
Designed by Nenagh brothers Pádraig and Fergal McDonnell of software company Tailteann Games, it is endorsed by the GPA, which enables player names and images to be used.
Also present was GAA national hurling director Paudie Butler and former Tipperary player and manager Nicky English. A fraction of the profits from the game, now available for €29, will be funnelled back to the GPA.
Off topic but never heard anything about this game. If it's anywhere near as good as Championship Manager it'll be a winner. Wonder will they be bringing out a football version???
Fear,
Is that article from the times written by a well known poster on this board? ;)
There's a thread in the Hurling forum about it Croi.
Quote from: seanaglis on June 29, 2007, 01:44:41 PM
Fear,
Is that article from the times written by a well known poster on this board? ;)
Who could possibly say seanaglis... ;)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 29, 2007, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 29, 2007, 01:33:36 PMFarrell was speaking at the launch of Bainisteoir - Hurling, a PC game similar to the soccer version called Championship Manager.
Designed by Nenagh brothers Pádraig and Fergal McDonnell of software company Tailteann Games, it is endorsed by the GPA, which enables player names and images to be used.
Also present was GAA national hurling director Paudie Butler and former Tipperary player and manager Nicky English. A fraction of the profits from the game, now available for €29, will be funnelled back to the GPA.
Off topic but never heard anything about this game. If it's anywhere near as good as Championship Manager it'll be a winner. Wonder will they be bringing out a football version???
Is the hurling game going to have professionalism & intercounty transfers, I really don't see how the game would work without a part with a committee coming down to inspect your accomodation or a copy of your P60 to see do you actually live or work in that county, will teamsheets & transfers have to be presented as gaeilge, will bans be recended, and will their be personalty element, ie overbearing fans in the football such as Mayo & Dublin, paranoid county boards like all of Ulster, Dublin & Cork. Will there be an in or out option for Kilkenny? Will the hurling league allow a protest facilty for Offaly, such as sitting down on the pitch if you lose to Clare or complain your way back into div.1 if you get relagated. Will the game have a 15 minutes start late option for the Dubs, or a sudden drop in form for Donegal or Roscommon if the computer AI @ random points because the players go on the lash, or will you lose random players to America if you get sent to the Tommy Marren Cup. Will you have to play hurling in a swap & blizzard if you playing with a week county but can wait for fine weather if you playing with Cork or Kilkenny?
QuoteI reserve my venom for those who fully deserve it Sheehy, and you do.
Likewise, I reserve it for mouthy windbags like you. Its pretty pathetic how you lads are so jealous
of Kerrys sucess that you have to constantly try to demean it.
Unbelievable - not happy with waltzing through the most uncompetitive province for the guts of 60 years, alienating Ulster support for their once-great county (I have a Kerry top since 1992. Burned her yesterday), beating up managers, texting nasty things to each other, not phoning each other, O'Connor/Kerry have now blown the whistle on the amateur status we hold dear to our hearts.
Kerry should now be painted over or, in order to save face, renamed Greater Rebel.
They should paint over Tyrone and call it Great Br.....oh, hang on
I was in Easons today in Langerland looking for Jack's book , but it's not on sale until Monday.
However I picked up a copy of Weeshie Fogarty's "Dr Eamonn O'Sullivan - A Man before his Time". So not wanting to start another Kerry book thread I will tag it on here.
To those who dont know, Dr Eamon was the legendary trainer of 8 Kerry All Ireland winning teams, 1924, 1926, 1937, 1946, 1953, 1955, 1959 and 1962 which given the time span was an incredible achivement.
He developed training and diet requimes that were innovative for their day when little or no training was done by intercounty teams and he wrote extensively on Gaelic Football.
The back of the book has the line "a fitting tribute for the man whose methods changed the art and science of Gaelic football forever". (Which I am sure will go down well in Ulster :P )
Of course the book will be heavily weighted in bias towards Kerry but it should be an interesting read for anyone with an interest in the history of football from the 20's to the 60's.
Just flicking through it there are some great old photos of great Kerry teams and players of old, the likes of Con Brosnan, Joe Barrett, John Joe Sheehy, Miko Doyle and Mick OConnell were all trained and developed under Dr Eamonn.
Eamonn was also one of the masterminds behind the construction of Fitzgerald Stadium which was built in grounds of the Killarney Mental hospiital St Finians where he worked.
I heard about it when it was launched a few months ago but had forgotton about it. Am actually now looking forward to reading this more than Jack's book. Fair play to the great Weeshie from Radio Kerry for putting this historical review down in print,
Anyone else read it recently?
QuoteThey should paint over Tyrone and call it Great Br.....oh, hang on
Not wishing to demean a Kerry fella's undoubted rock solid grasp of the political situation in the North but I presume you mean "call it United King.............." (for the sake of accuracy you understand)
then again you've prob forgotten all about that wee bit of land yis helped donate to the British............................................ ;)
Anyhow.......I quite like Kerry football, there I've said it, no mistaking it, I quite like it. And whats more I have an awful lot of respect for many of the kerry legends.
QuoteI have an awful lot of respect for many of the kerry legends.
Weeshie's book is for you so...
Over the Bar you are a fool
I have to say that no matter whether he is whinging or not this is a hugely enjoyable read. Due in no small measure to the hand of Tom Humphries I'd say.....however I came across a cracking line in it last night.
When J O'C was a Kerry selector under Páidí and when he was back home after another controversial game when Mo Fitz was once more used very sparingly he ran into an oul lad in the bar one evening. The oul fella's name was Murphy and he was a big hunting man who had a beagle called Rover. He started giving out to J O'C about them not using Mo Fitz...J O'C told Murphy that he'd be better off back at the hunting and to leave the football to him and Páidí.
Murphy's parting shot at J O'C was a humdinger.
"Thats alright Jack.. but I don't keep Rover in the boot of the car when I go hunting."
Classic