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With restructuring of Championship for 2025 increasing Senior Hurling Championship from 8 to 10 teams, meaning no relegation for 2024 and both finalists gaining promotion. Just wanted to gain a sense of the general opinion on the topic

Perhaps change the title of the thread, since there's already a SHC one?

It is an horrendous decision.
No basis for thinking that we have more than 8 Senior teams.

It didn't stop Portlaoise & Abbeyleix building back up following relegation.

It will promote mediocrity all round. 3-4 clubs every year knowing that all they have to do is beat X or Y to avoid relegation.
This has a direct impact on training levels and quality.
Which has a direct impact on the quality of play.
Which has a direct impact on the standard of hurling in the county.

The idea of "exposing more players to senior is a myth".
We are exposing them to mediocrity.

Jesus folks we have 16 so called senior football teams.

It's worth a trial run. Seems to be working effectively in offaly the last couple of years.
There's been plenty of dead rubbers the last few years iin the current format.
The only alteration I'd make is bottom 2 in each group go into relegation semi finals instead of bottom teams. Might make it more competitive

Quote from: Laois man on August 11, 2024, 11:11:37 AMJesus folks we have 16 so called senior football teams.

We don't.

We have 16 teams in the championship.

Laois football has been in free fall for 15 of the last 20 years.

Strong teams (& clubs) get relegated in Kilkenny.
Sometimes moving down more than one grade.
They make the championship they move down into stronger.
The ones that are able and well set up regroup & come back up stronger.
They rarely yo-yo up and down.

You don't need to be hurling senior in Laois to get noticed for intercounty.
I don't see any good argument for increasing the number of teams.

The interest that was generated by having an open draw with winners and losers sides is worth exploring again.

The idea of preparing for a game for a few months (& not worrying about/targeting subsequent games) brought a sharpness to the whole thing.

That's my thoughts on it anyways!

Quote from: Verbal on August 10, 2024, 11:05:45 PMIt is an horrendous decision.
No basis for thinking that we have more than 8 Senior teams.

It didn't stop Portlaoise & Abbeyleix building back up following relegation.

It will promote mediocrity all round. 3-4 clubs every year knowing that all they have to do is beat X or Y to avoid relegation.
This has a direct impact on training levels and quality.
Which has a direct impact on the quality of play.
Which has a direct impact on the standard of hurling in the county.

The idea of "exposing more players to senior is a myth".
We are exposing them to mediocrity.

Have to agree. Rosenallis and Castletown are effectively finished for the year after two games with no fear of relegation. It will be interesting to see how they perform in Round 3. For 2025, they will be hoping some cannon fodder get promoted along with B/K.   

Quote from: Downtheroad on August 12, 2024, 12:15:43 AM

Quote from: Verbal on August 10, 2024, 11:05:45 PMIt is an horrendous decision.
No basis for thinking that we have more than 8 Senior teams.

It didn't stop Portlaoise & Abbeyleix building back up following relegation.

It will promote mediocrity all round. 3-4 clubs every year knowing that all they have to do is beat X or Y to avoid relegation.
This has a direct impact on training levels and quality.
Which has a direct impact on the quality of play.
Which has a direct impact on the standard of hurling in the county.

The idea of "exposing more players to senior is a myth".
We are exposing them to mediocrity.

Have to agree. Rosenallis and Castletown are effectively finished for the year after two games with no fear of relegation. It will be interesting to see how they perform in Round 3. For 2025, they will be hoping some cannon fodder get promoted along with B/K.   

I've heard Rosenallis are conceding their match against Clough Ballacolla. Pretty dismal if true

Heard that also. Shocking stuff

Quote from: LaoisAbu20 on August 15, 2024, 01:48:29 AM

Quote from: Downtheroad on August 12, 2024, 12:15:43 AM

Quote from: Verbal on August 10, 2024, 11:05:45 PMIt is an horrendous decision.
No basis for thinking that we have more than 8 Senior teams.

It didn't stop Portlaoise & Abbeyleix building back up following relegation.

It will promote mediocrity all round. 3-4 clubs every year knowing that all they have to do is beat X or Y to avoid relegation.
This has a direct impact on training levels and quality.
Which has a direct impact on the quality of play.
Which has a direct impact on the standard of hurling in the county.

The idea of "exposing more players to senior is a myth".
We are exposing them to mediocrity.

Have to agree. Rosenallis and Castletown are effectively finished for the year after two games with no fear of relegation. It will be interesting to see how they perform in Round 3. For 2025, they will be hoping some cannon fodder get promoted along with B/K.   

I've heard Rosenallis are conceding their match against Clough Ballacolla. Pretty dismal if true

How can a supposedly senior hurling team, in a county such as Laois, concede a championship match? Is there something I'm missing? 

I'd be inclined to blame the format rather than Rosenallis.
Especially as they are one of the few legitimate dual clubs we have in the county.

The second round where winners play winners and losers play losers just hasn't worked at all.

howld on now, rosenallis are 1 o few clubs who bother there bollix in both codes in dis county. anyone havin a cut off them can look at the other hurlin clubvs n how they treat football n same for football clubs re hurlin. deyre entitled do what they like. flat out playin both year in year out n never make a sound. even played league dead rubber dis year. pull asy now boys.

I'd always have a soft spot towards Rosenallis as they are the only rural club in the county who are Senior in both Hurling and Football.

They always go about their business in the right way and there is a large cross over of their players trying to play both codes.

They are an example to every other club in the county

That said,a walkover at Senior Championship level is an awful look for any County

The reality is We probably have 3 at most Senior standard clubs relative to our neighbouring hurling counties

Whether it's another 5 or 7 clubs calling themselves Senior is a moot point

If people were being honest,it should probably be a 4 team senior championship or at most a 6 team one.

This year has being tough on a few senior teams castletown are down up to 6 or 7 of last year's panel between lads gone travelling and injuries but most will be back next year and things will improve big time. Not easy on Rosenallis a small club with 2 senior team and a big cross over between both codes 2 or 3 lads missing is a killer for them
.

While it may not be ideal or look great, i cant blame Rosenallis if this is true. To go 3 weeks for a dead rubber match is hard to get motivated, its essentially a practice match. as voice of tReason said, i'd blame the format rather than Rosenallis.

Nonsense re 4.

Rosenallis, Castletown, Borris Kilcotton, Abbeyleix have been there or thereabouts in games against the big 3 over last few years.

The same poster loves coming on here criticising everything.


Obviously we could be stronger.
But a 4 team championship.
Get a grip.

Where the f... Would you be going with a 4 team Cship last year Aleix were in the final Ctown took Cbolla to extra time only to be beating by a last second goal Rosenallis have but it up to all top teams at times borris/kcotton when down but it could made them stronger if they go straight back up.

Quote from: Verbal on August 15, 2024, 09:43:19 PMNonsense re 4.

Rosenallis, Castletown, Borris Kilcotton, Abbeyleix have been there or thereabouts in games against the big 3 over last few years.

The same poster loves coming on here criticising everything.


Obviously we could be stronger.
But a 4 team championship.
Get a grip.

None of those teams named would be Senior standard in any of the neighbouring hurling counties

There or thereabouts doesn't cut it

Laois has about 3 senior standard clubs

And a gap to the rest

If the remaining 5 or 7 Teams want to fool themselves that they are senior

Fire ahead

It's actually immaterial whether it's an 8 or 10 team championship because the gap between 6 and 10 is tiny

Lads on whinging about a 10 team championship

Ye are only about 7 months late

Where were ye all when it was being discussed in yere clubs and at county board level ?

It's unfortunate that there's to be a walkover in senior championship.  Terrible look for any county serious about hurling.

However the current landscape in Laois hurling is evolving.  There's no longer a big 4 as was, in the last 7/8 years.
Ballacolla, Camross and R/E are slightly ahead of the rest but I expect that gap to deteriorate further over the next few years.
Portlaoise are a prime example of a club getting their shit together albeit with 3 key outside transfers. It's amazing the transformation a quality manager brings.
The Harps
B/K
Castletown
Abbeyleix
All these teams will be hugely competitive over the next few years
Rosenallis too on their day and with luck can match any of the above. They have a young enough age profile bar one or 2.
I also reckon ballinakill if they get players back and their freedom to get hurlers from football areas ie shanahan and lynch could be very competitive.
It doesn't matter if any of our teams would be senior in kilkenny or Tipp.
What matters is making our championship the best it can be for the betterment of Laois hurling.

The 10 team structure is worth a trial but as i say one or 2 tweaks could make it even more competitive. 
As regards the lower tiers I don't think it will make it any less competitive.  Theirs always one or two standouts in premier intermediate and it's been a poor championship over the years.
The likes of trumera or slieve bloom coming up would be very competitive without a B/K or ballinakill in PI.

It's the Laois Senior Hurling Championship.
Not the Neighbouring Counties Senior Hurling Championship.

Suggesting reducing it to a 3 or 4 team championship reduces it to the level of the Kilkenny Football Championship.
Sure why not play it over a bank holiday weekend.

We'd all love to have 8 teams of equal standard.
The reality in almost all counties is that you have a number of teams with a realistic chance and a number of teams who don't.

Same thing applies in a World Cup, Olympics, Champions League.
Nobody suggests a competition should be reduced to the number of teams who are expected to be able to run it.
A really disturbing view actually.

Quote from: clonadmad on August 15, 2024, 10:39:38 PMLads on whinging about a 10 team championship

Ye are only about 7 months late

Where were ye all when it was being discussed in yere clubs and at county board level ?

Many on here outlined reasons against in advance of the vote.
It's called a discussion.

Quote from: Verbal on August 16, 2024, 09:24:35 AM

Quote from: clonadmad on August 15, 2024, 10:39:38 PMLads on whinging about a 10 team championship

Ye are only about 7 months late

Where were ye all when it was being discussed in yere clubs and at county board level ?

Many on here outlined reasons against in advance of the vote.
It's called a discussion.

A discussion taking place long after the decision has been made

Quote from: Verbal on August 16, 2024, 09:22:54 AMIt's the Laois Senior Hurling Championship.
Not the Neighbouring Counties Senior Hurling Championship.

Suggesting reducing it to a 3 or 4 team championship reduces it to the level of the Kilkenny Football Championship.
Sure why not play it over a bank holiday weekend.

We'd all love to have 8 teams of equal standard.
The reality in almost all counties is that you have a number of teams with a realistic chance and a number of teams who don't.

Same thing applies in a World Cup, Olympics, Champions League.
Nobody suggests a competition should be reduced to the number of teams who are expected to be able to run it.
A really disturbing view actually.

At the risk of repeating myself

It's immaterial whether it's a 8 or 10 team championship as there's little difference between clubs ranked 6-10 in terms of quality

The vote last year if I recall correctly was tight decided principally by a few football only clubs who were probably lobbied by one or two hurling clubs who were actively pushing it. Usually football clubs would abstain if they had no skin in the game. That's democracy. It's done and dusted for the next few years but it doesn't mean it was the right decision. Funny enough, I think it will level out the Premier Intermediate division but could well lead to the likes of Camross and Rathdownwy/Errill winning it. I expect B/K to win Premier Intermediate but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that a second team could get to the final.     

Agreed- that will be a consequence.
Bloated SHC will allow the top clubs to mind their first 17 for longer.

As well as weakening their competition by taking two of the stronger clubs out of the PIHC.

Have they decided what happens to the 5 teams after the group?

I presume it's
1- SF
2- QF
3- QF
4- Year over
5- Relegation Playoff

Or is 4 also in relegation danger?

There should be no senior B years ago you had senior intermediate junior A junior B and C.

Quote from: Laois man on August 17, 2024, 10:09:57 AMThere should be no senior B years ago you had senior intermediate junior A junior B and C.

Out of curiosity how many would you have in each grade?

I'd have
Senior- 8
Intermediate- 8
Junior A- 8
Junior B- The rest

1 team up & 1 team down.

Quote from: Verbal on August 17, 2024, 09:25:36 AMAgreed- that will be a consequence.
Bloated SHC will allow the top clubs to mind their first 17 for longer.

As well as weakening their competition by taking two of the stronger clubs out of the PIHC.

Have they decided what happens to the 5 teams after the group?

I presume it's
1- SF
2- QF
3- QF
4- Year over
5- Relegation Playoff

Or is 4 also in relegation danger?

For a lad that thinks he knows everything

I'm surprised you don't know how the 2025 SHC will work

⬇️

The championship will be played on a round robin league basis, with teams criss-crossing and playing a team in the opposite Group in each round.

So while you are playing teams from the opposite group, your points total is up against the teams in your group and each team will have five matches.

The top team in each group will go to the semi final while the second and third teams will face off in a quarter final.

The fourth-placed team will be out while the bottom side in each group will play the relegation final.

Quote from: Downtheroad on August 16, 2024, 10:27:23 PMThe vote last year if I recall correctly was tight decided principally by a few football only clubs who were probably lobbied by one or two hurling clubs who were actively pushing it. Usually football clubs would abstain if they had no skin in the game. That's democracy. It's done and dusted for the next few years but it doesn't mean it was the right decision. Funny enough, I think it will level out the Premier Intermediate division but could well lead to the likes of Camross and Rathdownwy/Errill winning it. I expect B/K to win Premier Intermediate but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that a second team could get to the final.     

Clubs were first asked to vote on whether or not to retain the current eight-team system and that was narrowly defeated.

They were then asked to choose between 10 and 12 teams with the 10 team format

unanimously

wining out.

Tiresome.

If you wanted to do a bit of research.
As was discussed here last November.

Co Board review group allowed a 12 team proposal go to the clubs (knowing it wouldn't pass) in the hope that it would mean 8 won out.

Clubs then lobbied to get 10 on the table.

Impressive maneuvering from the clubs involved. But not the correct outcome for the overall good.

And btw- what I said I presumed in terms of group finishing places is actually correct?
God, I was very far out wasn't I!

An awful ghoul to be dealing with.

So Co Board maneuvers to include a 12 team proposal back fired badly.

Fair.

I think the poll speaks for itself.

A straight vote between an 8 team and a 12 team championship would have resulted in 8.

I wonder what a straight vote between 8 team and 10 team would have resulted in.

The biggest problem is that we are going to be stuck with this for a very long time.

Good luck getting any of the clubs ranked 5-10 in the SHC or any of the IHC clubs voting for multiple relegations in the same year.

That's my biggest fear with it.
It's not going to be easy to revert.

I've backed Camross to win Laois SHC, I see they lost to Rathdowney 2 or 3 weeks ago. What is the current state of affairs? I find it difficult to get results and fixtures on the Laois gaa site.

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 01:45:42 PMFair.

I think the poll speaks for itself.

A straight vote between an 8 team and a 12 team championship would have resulted in 8.

I wonder what a straight vote between 8 team and 10 team would have resulted in.

The biggest problem is that we are going to be stuck with this for a very long time.

Good luck getting any of the clubs ranked 5-10 in the SHC or any of the IHC clubs voting for multiple relegations in the same year.

That's my biggest fear with it.
It's not going to be easy to revert.

Yep 14 votes in total on an anonymous forum

That surely must be very representative of every hurling supporter in the county on the topic, all right

The Clubs voted for it so they were in favor of it

That's Democracy

The 2025 SHC could look like as follows (with apologies in advance to both Colt Shanahoe and Clonaslee,based on current form )

Ballacolla
Harps
Abbeyleix
Rosenallis

Rathdowney
Portlaoise
Camross
Castletown

and potentially 2 from 3 of the following;  Borris,Ballinakill or Ballyfin

who wouldnt drag the standard of the 2025 Championship down, in fairness to any of the 3 clubs

Ballinakill and Ballyfin would be no additions to the SHC at present.
Unfortunately.

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 09:45:52 PMBallinakill and Ballyfin would be no additions to the SHC at present.
Unfortunately.

I'd imagine Ballyfin would be the worser of the two. I suppose the Gaels option is still out? If you're going to be promoting these teams that're not up to the standard, you'd nearly have to let them have a couple of extra players. Not that I think Ballyfin will qualify anyway, but still.

Quote from: burdizzo on August 18, 2024, 09:55:45 PM

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 09:45:52 PMBallinakill and Ballyfin would be no additions to the SHC at present.
Unfortunately.

I'd imagine Ballyfin would be the worser of the two. I suppose the Gaels option is still out? If you're going to be promoting these teams that're not up to the standard, you'd nearly have to let them have a couple of extra players. Not that I think Ballyfin will qualify anyway, but still.

What is the current status of Gaels teams.

It got very complicated around 2016-19ish.
Are they allowed Senior or not allowed these days?

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 10:45:19 PM

Quote from: burdizzo on August 18, 2024, 09:55:45 PM

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 09:45:52 PMBallinakill and Ballyfin would be no additions to the SHC at present.
Unfortunately.

I'd imagine Ballyfin would be the worser of the two. I suppose the Gaels option is still out? If you're going to be promoting these teams that're not up to the standard, you'd nearly have to let them have a couple of extra players. Not that I think Ballyfin will qualify anyway, but still.

What is the current status of Gaels teams.

It got very complicated around 2016-19ish.
Are they allowed Senior or not allowed these days?

They currently aren't allowed, but I don't know if that can be or will be revisited in light of this expanded championship.

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 10:45:19 PM

Quote from: burdizzo on August 18, 2024, 09:55:45 PM

Quote from: Verbal on August 18, 2024, 09:45:52 PMBallinakill and Ballyfin would be no additions to the SHC at present.
Unfortunately.

I'd imagine Ballyfin would be the worser of the two. I suppose the Gaels option is still out? If you're going to be promoting these teams that're not up to the standard, you'd nearly have to let them have a couple of extra players. Not that I think Ballyfin will qualify anyway, but still.

What is the current status of Gaels teams.

It got very complicated around 2016-19ish.
Are they allowed Senior or not allowed these days?

I think Gaels teams have to be completely non-senior. I think that was mentioned at Convention a few years back.

So the only thing that could be considered would be something like Ballyfin and Clonaslee seeking to enter a team in the SHC as Ballyfin Gaels kinda thing?

They definitely won't ever allow that. Having to change competition structures to allow it!

Any predictions for the Cship games this weekend. Camross to beat Plaois Abbeyleix V Harps should be very close. Rdowney. /Errill V Ctown is a dead rubber Rdowney /Errill to win here after a good fight from Ctown.

I expect Portlaoise to put it up to Camross, and wouldn't be shocked if they pulled it off.

Ballacola favorites still it seems, although if R/E were to find consistency it would be a good game between them.
Camross made little work of Portlaoise ,even with all their transfers they are not near it. Camross will improve from here. The Harps fell apart against Abbeyleix, have it all to do next day now.
Same teams to be in the semi finals again as last year i think unless The Harps turn over Camross. Abbeyleix to pip Portlaoise

That's a big blow for The Harps.
It could be season defining.

Anyone know what Clough Ballacolla did last weekend?

It is not beyond the realms of incomprehension to have exactly the same final as 2023,Before I'm laughed out the door, remind yourselves that Abbeyleix had only come back straight up from relegation the year prior to them getting to the 23 final. Not one person on this forum in their wildest dreams would have prophesied them reaching last years final.
Although they lost the first match, they've won the last two, and no disrespect to the town, I don't see it being that close, the Fung have the sweater stick men, and at least 13 of them have won at least one minor or u21 County title. Then it's an hour to another final. I actually believe that it is very plausible but I would love to see the Harps turn Camross over

Following tonight's Laois Shopping Centre: PIHC Quarter Final Results

The following 2 Premier Intermediate teams, promoted to the 2025 Senior
Hurling Championship are

 Ballinakill
    and
Borris in Ossory-Killcotton

The results have shown how the planned increase to 10 senior teams is flawed without even winning a semi final Ballinakill and Borris-in-Ossory-Kilcotton are guaranteed promotion to SHC 2025.

Unfortunately Ballinakill are not of senior standard at the moment.

First game here going as expected. Will Portlaoise bounce back or was their result v Rathdowney Errill a once off?

I actually think The Harps could take Camross in the next one.

I'd love to have the time (or patience!!) to look back and count how many scores The Harps conceded from being turned over trying to work balls short (particularly out of defence).

Hard to fathom.
Usually you'd associate that with a team lacking in skillful hurlers.
Not the case here.

They were really really poor at it.
Obviously there was a degree of hard work from Camross but there was nothing ultra intense about their workrate today. They are capable of taking that up a notch or two.

Watching matches yesterday very difficult Portlaoise a Junior standard team Harps trying to play like Limerick coach should be sacked hard to gauge Abbeyleix or Camross

The championship has yet to ignite and we are down to four teams. It really reinforces the need to reduce the number of teams as oppose to increasing the numbers as it would have been more productive. Six team league with top team to final and second v third in a semi final was the way forward. That guarantees stronger teams playing against one another more often and in turn raising standards hopefully. Also helps strengthen premier intermediate which is going to be a farce next year with how weak the standard of teams in the championship are. Our premier intermediate winners last few years have struggled to make an impact in the Leinster championship so whoever wins it next year will be on a hiding to nothing.

Quote from: Laois Rising on September 09, 2024, 04:59:39 PMThe championship has yet to ignite and we are down to four teams. It really reinforces the need to reduce the number of teams as oppose to increasing the numbers as it would have been more productive. Six team league with top team to final and second v third in a semi final was the way forward. That guarantees stronger teams playing against one another more often and in turn raising standards hopefully. Also helps strengthen premier intermediate which is going to be a farce next year with how weak the standard of teams in the championship are. Our premier intermediate winners last few years have struggled to make an impact in the Leinster championship so whoever wins it next year will be on a hiding to nothing.

Premier Intermediate looks to be a weak enough championship. I honestly think a good few of the Intermediate teams are as good as them. If they were going to have 10 at senior, why not just amalgamate the two intermediate grades, and the left overs into Junior 'A'? Colt-Shanahoe, for example, will be beaten by most of the intermediate teams. Talk about a club that has regressed since amalgamating...

Should be no senior B. Just senior intermediate plus Junior A B and C.

Quote from: Laois man on September 09, 2024, 06:15:19 PMShould be no senior B. Just senior intermediate plus Junior A B and C.

Agreed ,buttering it up, barely have 6 Senior standard Teams ,never mind 10 anyway. Standard of hurling in the county gone poor. Ballinikill probably to come straight back down unless RE/ Camross win the Premier Intermediate next year.

Quote from: John1 on September 10, 2024, 09:05:36 AM

Quote from: Laois man on September 09, 2024, 06:15:19 PMShould be no senior B. Just senior intermediate plus Junior A B and C.

Agreed ,buttering it up, barely have 6 Senior standard Teams ,never mind 10 anyway. Standard of hurling in the county gone poor. Ballinikill probably to come straight back rdown unless RE/ Camross win the Premier Intermediate next year.

And they probably will.
Are Ballyfin going to get any stronger any time soon?
Who else will be capable of beating them?

Quote from: Verbal on September 10, 2024, 05:42:38 PM

Quote from: John1 on September 10, 2024, 09:05:36 AM

Quote from: Laois man on September 09, 2024, 06:15:19 PMShould be no senior B. Just senior intermediate plus Junior A B and C.

Agreed ,buttering it up, barely have 6 Senior standard Teams ,never mind 10 anyway. Standard of hurling in the county gone poor. Ballinikill probably to come straight back rdown unless RE/ Camross win the Premier Intermediate next year.

And they probably will.
Are Ballyfin going to get any stronger any time soon?
Who else will be capable of beating them?

No. I think Ballyfin are giving precedence to football.

Making no inroads in either. Day of Dual Club at high level gone
Emphasis on fitness levels gone extreme nearly & quality is just not there to follow.

Quote from: John1 on September 10, 2024, 08:21:18 PMMaking no inroads in either. Day of Dual Club at high level gone
Emphasis on fitness levels gone extreme nearly & quality is just not there to follow.

Would a reduction of senior football teams, as is being talked about, maybe help some of the dual clubs re-focus a bit on hurling?

Down to the last four finally. I stated a few weeks ago that I wouldn't be surprised in the least, if we have a reply of last year's final, one of the guy's felt that Portlaoise and Abbeyleix would be a close affair but I felt then that Abbeyleix had the better stick men, especially up front. Abbeyleix won't fear R.E in the least, ut will be closer, but I see Abbeyleix winning by four points. The other Semi final is undoubtedly between the two best hurling teams in the County. This one could well go all the way to extra time. Many say that one player doesn't change a team that much, tell that to Offaly supporters watching Brian Whelehan, if Mossy Keyes is given space and allowed to hurl, then he could be the difference between these two teams because there is a puck of the ball between them. The 2024 County final will probably be Abbeyleix vs??????? Camross by a nose

You could be right but I can't see Rdowney /Errill hitting 27 wides this year in a sfinal. Rdowney /Errill I think will get to the final. Camross V Cbolla very hard to call camross are coming good at the right time. It's being a poor Cship so hopefully we get 2 good sfinals. A lot of club have being hit with emigrated and injuries this year I believe Aleix and Rathdowney /Errill lost a few Ctown down 7 or 8 from there panel.

It has been a terrible championship. Hopefully it springs to life in the semi-finals. Camross v Abbeyleix final is my prediction but thankfully we should get two competitive games to enjoy. 

Senior football going to 12 makes sense. Senior hurling going to 10 is ridiculous, should be going to 6 or staying the same imo.

Quote from: burdizzo on September 10, 2024, 08:49:19 PM

Quote from: John1 on September 10, 2024, 08:21:18 PMMaking no inroads in either. Day of Dual Club at high level gone
Emphasis on fitness levels gone extreme nearly & quality is just not there to follow.

Would a reduction of senior football teams, as is being talked about, maybe help some of the dual clubs re-focus a bit on hurling?

God im not sure, Ballyfin & Rosenallis just look burnt out, no kick or life in them, clonaslee have a bit more youth & freshness coming through but quality not as much at the moment . Could take Ballyfin a while to rebuild again, some fellas the wrong end of age scales holding on to keep numbers there too. Rosenallis & Clonaslee seem to have panels where half prefer football & half prefer the hurling , perhaps why they never make solid progress.

I cant see Abbeyleix beating R/E this time but maybe i am wrong & hope i am wrong because it would be a great boost to get back to another final for their clubs progression with the youth they have. Camross steadily improving but Ballacola will have their homework done too although they had a long lay-off , they will also be hungry to amend last years collapse. time will tell.

What's the views on the senior senior B and intermediate sfinals this weekend? Also junior A final Fri night and 2 minor sfinals on Sunday?

Senior : Rathdowney-Errill
         Clough ballacolla (if Picky play)


Premier intermediate: bk
                      Ballinakill

Intermediate  : Abbeyleix
                Slieve Bloom

Junior A : 50/50 game but bk to shade it.

Minor : The Harps
        Castletown

You heard it first here men.

Rathdowney-Errill are through to their first SHC final since 2019!



Abbeyleix got a consolation goal right at the death as a 65 made its way through a smattering of bodies, but it was only in consolation as the final whistle immediately blew.

Quote from: Spiritof1915 on September 19, 2024, 06:16:35 PMSenior : Rathdowney-Errill
         Clough ballacolla (if Picky play)


Premier intermediate: bk
                      Ballinakill

Intermediate  : Abbeyleix
                Slieve Bloom

Junior A : 50/50 game but bk to shade it.

Minor : The Harps
        Castletown

You heard it first here men.

Good calling there - just missed Mountmellick!

Rathdowney/Errill v Clogh Ballcolla should be a great final.

Will Rathdowney get over the line? Bookies have CB at 8/11 with RE evens.

Well folks county final time Sunday week should be a good final alot of people fancy Cbolla but I feel Rdowney/Errill could take it. Harps hot favourites for the minor. Mmellick have a great chance to win the intermediate.

Quote from: Laois man on September 25, 2024, 02:00:57 PMWell folks county final time Sunday week should be a good final alot of people fancy Cbolla but I feel Rdowney/Errill could take it. Harps hot favourites for the minor. Mmellick have a great chance to win the intermediate.

Should be a cracking final. Cb slight favourites due to recent years successes. In saying that RE will definitely not fear their neighbours.  A high scoring finale expected
As regards the minor, The Harps will be favourites but castletown will be gunning for a first minor title in a long number of years.
By my reckoning harps have contested 5 out of last 6 minor finals. Surely they will be in a senior final in the next 3 years.

Harps did the same in the mid 80s and early 90s won a nice few minors but never won a senior for some reason.

Good minor teams necessarily do not translate to senior. The Harps are doing great work. What The Harps are doing well is getting everyone involved at a young age, maintaining the interested in hurling as they move up the ranks and as a result have a decent size pool of players to pick from who are very well coached. Therefore, The Harps are fielding teams with 15 good to very good players without any passengers onboard. A number of other hurling clubs are fielding minor teams without the same strength and depth at their disposal. What is making the real difference for The Harps are their players ranked 7-15 in ability. While this is great at minor and u20 level, the reality is that these players will not step up to improve the senior teams- the Harps should have some very good second and third teams in the future though. Ultimately, what you want are a couple of star players coming through because these are the players who will step up to senior and make the difference. If you look back on the last couple of Laois minor teams were the players from the Harps the standout players or not? Possibly, one or two but nothing to suggest that it is inevitable that the Harps are going to win a Laois championship in the next few years.   

Quote from: Laois Rising on September 26, 2024, 01:35:19 PMGood minor teams necessarily do not translate to senior. The Harps are doing great work. What The Harps are doing well is getting everyone involved at a young age, maintaining the interested in hurling as they move up the ranks and as a result have a decent size pool of players to pick from who are very well coached. Therefore, The Harps are fielding teams with 15 good to very good players without any passengers onboard. A number of other hurling clubs are fielding minor teams without the same strength and depth at their disposal. What is making the real difference for The Harps are their players ranked 7-15 in ability. While this is great at minor and u20 level, the reality is that these players will not step up to improve the senior teams- the Harps should have some very good second and third teams in the future though. Ultimately, what you want are a couple of star players coming through because these are the players who will step up to senior and make the difference. If you look back on the last couple of Laois minor teams were the players from the Harps the standout players or not? Possibly, one or two but nothing to suggest that it is inevitable that the Harps are going to win a Laois championship in the next few years.   

That's the nuts of it really. You need those stand out underage players to help you cut it at the top table at senior level. If you look at Rathdowney and Clough Ballacolla for example for this years final. I don't think any of Picky, Ross King, Paddy Purcill, Lee Cleere, Willy Dunphy etc have any minors medals between them. But they were all stand out top underage players and you knew they would greatly improve their senior teams when they got there.

Hard to look beyond a CB win this weekend? Their backs on paper should have a big handle on the RE front 6.

Quote from: TheGiantSquid on October 01, 2024, 05:08:35 PMHard to look beyond a CB win this weekend? Their backs on paper should have a big handle on the RE front 6.

Would have to agree, hopefully will be a cracker of a game to watch think tg4 supposed to be showing it on tv aswell

Should be a cracker on Sunday. CB are probably slight favorites, but I have a feeling RE will win by 2-4 points. like CB they have some great individual players but I feel its a last hurrah for some of the RE lads and a fairy tale win for them.

BK for the Premier intermediate by 8 + points

Mountmellick for the Intermediate by 4 + points. they lost the final two years ago, fell a bit flat last year but I think they will win it at the weekend.

still a great achievement for Abbeyliex to have their second team Premier Intermediate next year. their second team was junior A 3 years ago.

ballacolla
borris
abbeyleix
harps

Minor could be closer than people think. Mmellick to win the intermediate. Borris/kcotton to win after a tough battle. Rdowney to win by 1.

Mountmellick will rue not finishing off the job last night.
They were in a great position playing with a strong wing.
Abbeyleix experience came to the fore in winding the clock down.

Ballinakill put up a good fight. Intelligent and skillful hurlers. They are better than I thought previously I would have to say.
If they could add Cha and Downey.

If Rathdowney Errill could be a bit more clinical with the ball they deliver to their forward line today I think they can take the senior.
They have defenders to match the various ways in which Ballacolla are a threat.
They have legs, experience, hurlers and a right tough streak.
Eric Killeen could be a massive player today.
Roddy & Picky, Corby & Purcell, Joe Fitz & Darren Maher, Stephen Bergin & Paddy McCanr, Jordan Walshe & Fonsie.... They will all do what they do. 3 or 4 of the above on each side will shine.

But I think Killeen could be a man that Ballacolla don't have an equivalent of the far end.
Rathdowney by 3.

I can't see Castletown living with The Harps in the minor right to the end.
They should pull away to win by 7 or 8.

RE great in first half but needed to be 7/8 up at HT with that wind. CB took over in second half and RE never got into it.
Very poor reffing performance, CB got every break today. Got their frees much easier...would have been tighter only for Dunne. Missed about 10 throws too for both teams. Still CB took the chances they were given...good luck to them.

Decent final, Ballacolla worth winners, but Rathdowney Erill just did not show up in the 2nd half. They went out without as much as a whimper... if CB were more clinical it could have been 10 plus points in it and I don't think they could have complained.

I'm not sure what went on at half time, but I just couldn't get over how flat they were.

taught dunne reffed very well. half hanpassed balls are trun now, impssible alsmost. willie won the manager battle, ballacolla looked to target rathdowney fullback line n claned it out.darren solid at back wit diarmaid lee n jordan all on top.ballacolla serious outfit n made hay wit good side. rathdowney havent.

Quote from: georgedoylesrightleg on October 07, 2024, 08:33:46 AMtaught dunne reffed very well. half hanpassed balls are trun now, impssible alsmost. willie won the manager battle, ballacolla looked to target rathdowney fullback line n claned it out.darren solid at back wit diarmaid lee n jordan all on top.ballacolla serious outfit n made hay wit good side. rathdowney havent.

Likewise, I didn't see any major issuing with the referring. The handing passing is so hard call now, as we have seen with the inter county games this year, when the refs have pulled them up on throws, the TV replays clearly show that they were legal hand passes, 2 of them were crucial wrong calls in the All Ireland semi and finals this year.

I think that final could be the end of that Rathdowney team, by the end of the 60 they had won so few battles across the park, and it was hard to see what they could do to turn the tables. Clough Ballacolla probably should have won it by 4 or 5 more in the end. Themselves and Camross have gradually introduced new talent to their lines over the last few years, I think it will be very hard to look beyond those 2 for the next 3 or 4 years. Rathdowney with just the 1 final win in the last 10 years is a poor return from the talent they had coming through. 

Super minor final yesterday 2 good teams massive win for Ctown.

Good call Ottoman. Where CB and Camross have shared out county titles over the last ten years RE have only landed the two (2014, 2019). I remember that 2014 final well and RE blew Camross out of the water with young players at the time like Liam O'Connell, Paddy and John Purcell, Ross King and a very young and gifted Mark Kavanagh really standing out as top class hurlers. I think most people thought, like myself, that RE were capable of winning up to numerous titles over the next decade. To only win one more title with that team was disappointing for the club. I do think though had Mark Kavanagh not had those the terrible injuries that RE might have won much more. Nice to see Michael Verney in the Irish Independent do a write up with him in the lead up to the final. Only for injuries he would be in the prime of his career now and probably operating out of centre forward for club and county with great success. Any club side to lose such a marquee player would struggle to reach the same heights as before.

Quote from: Laois Rising on October 07, 2024, 01:19:59 PMGood call Ottoman. Where CB and Camross have shared out county titles over the last ten years RE have only landed the two (2014, 2019). I remember that 2014 final well and RE blew Camross out of the water with young players at the time like Liam O'Connell, Paddy and John Purcell, Ross King and a very young and gifted Mark Kavanagh really standing out as top class hurlers. I think most people thought, like myself, that RE were capable of winning up to numerous titles over the next decade. To only win one more title with that team was disappointing for the club. I do think though had Mark Kavanagh not had those the terrible injuries that RE might have won much more. Nice to see Michael Verney in the Irish Independent do a write up with him in the lead up to the final. Only for injuries he would be in the prime of his career now and probably operating out of centre forward for club and county with great success. Any club side to lose such a marquee player would struggle to reach the same heights as before.

I agree, Mark Kavanagh is such a loss to both club and county. An extremely talented player of which counties like us produce few and far between unfortunately. RE badly needed someone like him in the 2nd half, I'd love to see the statistics on first and 2nd balls won, I doubt it would look to kindly on them.

Like yourself, I was sure that RE teams was destined to win 2,3 maybe even 4 in a row, I just couldn't see anyone keeping in with them over the course of 60 minutes. They also, for whatever reasons, could never get the best out of Paddy Purcill on too many occasions down through those years. 

Yes.
That 2014 win was a really superb performance.
I am always guilty of tipping them. I'll never learn.
They will indeed look back on these past ten years with a sense of underachievement.

I thought the referee was a little bit harsh on Rathdowney Erill.
He seemed much quicker to give frees against them than to them.

Terrible reffing performance. 9 more frees awarded to CB than to RE. And he missed stephen bergin deliberately dropping the Hurley to get the first goal. RE should have been 7 up at HT. Still might not have not been enough the way CB played in 2nd half but it would have been tighter with a different ref. No one wants to see free taking contests deciding finals...very poor but its Laois so he might get 3 finals in a row next year.

Quote from: Laoisred on October 07, 2024, 08:32:11 PMTerrible reffing performance. 9 more frees awarded to CB than to RE. And he missed stephen bergin deliberately dropping the Hurley to get the first goal. RE should have been 7 up at HT. Still might not have not been enough the way CB played in 2nd half but it would have been tighter with a different ref. No one wants to see free taking contests deciding finals...very poor but its Laois so he might get 3 finals in a row next year.

Stephen Begin dropped the hurl because it got slapped out of his hand. Clear as day when I looked at the reply on TG4.

Quote from: Laoisred on October 07, 2024, 08:32:11 PMTerrible reffing performance. 9 more frees awarded to CB than to RE. And he missed stephen bergin deliberately dropping the Hurley to get the first goal. RE should have been 7 up at HT. Still might not have not been enough the way CB played in 2nd half but it would have been tighter with a different ref. No one wants to see free taking contests deciding finals...very poor but its Laois so he might get 3 finals in a row next year.

I don't think there's any rule against dropping your hurl?!
He didn't hand pass the ball?

Quote from: Verbal on October 07, 2024, 09:24:18 PM

Quote from: Laoisred on October 07, 2024, 08:32:11 PMTerrible reffing performance. 9 more frees awarded to CB than to RE. And he missed stephen bergin deliberately dropping the Hurley to get the first goal. RE should have been 7 up at HT. Still might not have not been enough the way CB played in 2nd half but it would have been tighter with a different ref. No one wants to see free taking contests deciding finals...very poor but its Laois so he might get 3 finals in a row next year.

I don't think there's any rule against dropping your hurl?!
He didn't hand pass the ball?

I don't think you can drop the hurl intentionally, regardless of the actions after. But his hand that was holding the hurl was clear struck and he dropped it after that, so the ref can either call a free from the illegal stoke, or allow advantage.

You are correct.
I genuinely thought that rule was associated with hand passing specifically.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a free given for it bar when someone drops the hurl to handpass.

Hurl being dropped is almost always in some form of contact. Be very difficult for a referee to establish that it was deliberate.

4.8 To drop the hurley intentionally, or to throw the hurley in a manner which does not constitute a danger to another player.

I was out on Sunday and only caught the last 20 minutes on TG4.

I thought R/E looked very poor and lacked any structure. Maybe that's how the game had gone as I hadn't seen the first half.

They never looked like getting the goal they needed and the last couple of balls dropped in went wide. Couple of other long balls easily cut out by C/B defenders.

Agreed there were a lot of frees in the last 10 minutes or so and at that stage C/B had no problem keeping Rathdowney at arms length.

As someone mentioned earlier Paddy Purcell seemed to be out of teh game and had very little influence on what I saw.

All in all not the greatest game and it's hard to see C/B upsetting Leinster.

Quote from: redsetanta on October 08, 2024, 12:27:16 PMI was out on Sunday and only caught the last 20 minutes on TG4.

I thought R/E looked very poor and lacked any structure. Maybe that's how the game had gone as I hadn't seen the first half.

They never looked like getting the goal they needed and the last couple of balls dropped in went wide. Couple of other long balls easily cut out by C/B defenders.

Agreed there were a lot of frees in the last 10 minutes or so and at that stage C/B had no problem keeping Rathdowney at arms length.

As someone mentioned earlier Paddy Purcell seemed to be out of teh game and had very little influence on what I saw.

All in all not the greatest game and it's hard to see C/B upsetting Leinster.

In fairness to Purcell, he took a fair bit of punishment throughout the game and was dragged down or hammered every time he ran through.
I thought C/B were good value for their win but did think they got their frees easier. I also thought that Dunne let them away with cynical fouling a lot, I think Cleere was the only one booked and that was right at the end.

R/E couldn't get the ball up the field against the wind. The puckouts weren't breaking half way and they couldn't get decent ball to Dowling, McCane and Kileen who were going well.

if lads tink paddy is rathdiwneys provlem they dont know much. he also took a bad belt tens mins into second half but never went missing. ballocala went for rathdowney fullback line and murdered them there. simple

Rathdowney:Errill are losing a few to emigrated I hear shortly wlth a few lads pushing on age wise aswell could be a hard push to get back to the top again. U20 cship starting this weekend always a good Cship Harps and Camross could be the stand out teams in it.

The Harps will be reeling from losing the minor final. Would have been quietly confidence with the panel of players that they had this year. The marquee players of Castletown really stood up in the final though. The Harps will look to atone for that loss by winning the U20 championship. That had an excellent minor team last year that went goal crazy against Abbeyleix (who themselves might think they have an outside chance this year) in the county final. If those players can make the step up and add to what is already a strong team they should be the team to beat this year. Clough Ballacolla won the minor title two years ago and they cannot be ruled out of consideration either as they were a decent team if memory serves me correctly.

I agree with all the comments re R/E.
There is serious concern in the area that their lack of underage success presently and in the last 10 to 15 years will catch up with them very soon.
Their competing in B competitions from u13 to u20 in 2024 which is hard to believe for a proud hurling area. (Obviously Laois hurling will suffer too)

Throw in the fact that club legends joe Fitz and John Purcell are nearing the end of their senior careers, Roddy and Eric Killen gone for a year at least, Mark Kavanagh and Jack Kelly away already, it's hard to see any senior title success going forward.

In saying that the club are one of the best in the county at maximising the resources they have.
Their 2nd team got to a PI semi final but without that quality of youth coming thru to replace the undoubted quality of player above I think it could be a while before they see another county final.

Camross favourites for u20 for me. With The Harps, Abbeyleix and C/B in that order best of the rest

Didn't make it home for the final this year, bar Covid finals, my first to miss in over 20 years.

Great that it was on TG4, so I got to enjoy it from the comfort of the couch. It was a strange final, I wouldn't call it poor, there was some fine hurling played between both sides with some really well taken points, and the 2 goals were superb. But at the same time, it never really sprung to life. Myself, like many others I suppose, was waiting for RE to come to life in the 2nd half, and it never happened. They played some fantastic stuff in the first, and were just so completely flat after the break. I know they were against the wind, but that's no excuse to lose pretty much every battle and breaking ball. CB could have had it properly sown up with 10 to go only for they wasted 2 good goal scoring chances and hit some dreadful wides in that period.

On the ref, while I think his performance was probably just above average. I definitely don't think he favoured any side as one poster seem to suggest. In fact, he made some quite baffling decisions for both. A few that stuck out were a free awarded to Paddy Purcill right on half time, left myself and even the commentators perplexed as there seemed to be no contact at all. A very similar one was awarded to CB No.13 where I just couldn't see where the supposed illegal tackle was even made. Coincidentally both those same players were on the receiving end of 2 hefty late tackles and got nothing for their troubles.

Unfortunately for Rathdowney Erill, I think that loss could spell the end of that teams era. They struggled to match that Clough Ballacolla teams over 60 minutes, and now with emigrating and retirements on the horizon. They might drop back to the middle order for the next few years. Its not great for Laois hurling in general, Laois needs a strong Portlaoise and Rathdowney to be competing year in year out at the top end of Laois club hurling. For the next 2/3 years, its very hard to look outside Clough Ballacolla or Camross for your winners. 

Considering the weather I thought that the standard of hurling is slowly improving in terms of skill. Remember, club and for that matter, hurling and football at Club and County level is cyclical. Clubs whether rural or small towns will struggle every few years due to retirement, poor management. Lack of numbers etc. Castletown dominated during the late nineties and early 2000s then due to the loss of the two cuddys and some others, they fell away for a period which is understandable considering the population basis. But judging by their minor win and playing A hurling at juvenile level, they are on their way back which is a positive for the county. The Harps are definitely going places and have some lovely hurlers which will definitely benefit the County going forward. Abbeyleix definitely have improved and they will definitely have more than one County panelist next year. Unlike some of you I don't believe that portlaoise will be contesting County finals or contributing to Laois hurling. Borris are back where they belong so I don't believe that the apparent demise of Rathdowney Errill is going to put Laois hurling back years. Mark kavanagh was an awful loss for them but they will hang around and in a few years be back where they belong. We have a few good hurlers and I'm hoping that this manager will unearth one or two more gems to help the county like Mossy and David Dooley have last year. Laois are not an old panel and I for one would love to see more of James Duggan and young Byrne from Abbeyleix. We're in Division 1B and could quite easily beat Antrim Westmeath Offaly and Dublin on a bad day are no world beaters. Other than the Deise there's one other team that has slipped my mind. So look ahead to the league and see what this Tipp man has up his sleave

Quote from: The infidel in exile on October 11, 2024, 12:22:27 AMConsidering the weather I thought that the standard of hurling is slowly improving in terms of skill. Remember, club and for that matter, hurling and football at Club and County level is cyclical. Clubs whether rural or small towns will struggle every few years due to retirement, poor management. Lack of numbers etc. Castletown dominated during the late nineties and early 2000s then due to the loss of the two cuddys and some others, they fell away for a period which is understandable considering the population basis. But judging by their minor win and playing A hurling at juvenile level, they are on their way back which is a positive for the county. The Harps are definitely going places and have some lovely hurlers which will definitely benefit the County going forward. Abbeyleix definitely have improved and they will definitely have more than one County panelist next year. Unlike some of you I don't believe that portlaoise will be contesting County finals or contributing to Laois hurling. Borris are back where they belong so I don't believe that the apparent demise of Rathdowney Errill is going to put Laois hurling back years. Mark kavanagh was an awful loss for them but they will hang around and in a few years be back where they belong. We have a few good hurlers and I'm hoping that this manager will unearth one or two more gems to help the county like Mossy and David Dooley have last year. Laois are not an old panel and I for one would love to see more of James Duggan and young Byrne from Abbeyleix. We're in Division 1B and could quite easily beat Antrim Westmeath Offaly and Dublin on a bad day are no world beaters. Other than the Deise there's one other team that has slipped my mind. So look ahead to the league and see what this Tipp man has up his sleave

If he could find a way of getting the best out of Lee Cleere, that would be another bonus. The best player across the half back line in the county the last 3 years, but he can barley get off the bench for Laois. We can't afford to not have lads of that level involved.

Based on what you have seen Ottoman from the championship who else do you think might add to the Laois starting 15 next year. I felt while we gave Offaly a really good rattle in the Joe McD final I do think we are a couple of quality players light if we were in Leinster this year. We have yet to replace Kavanagh and Cha in an attacking sense (granted Quinlan, Keyes and Duggan still have plenty of scope for further improvement to reach those levels) and defensively, while solid, it currently won't be enough to compete with the top level sides. Wexford hit us for 32 points easing up in the prelim this year. Cleere is an excellent club hurler but you could argue for the merits of O'Connell and Cuddy who were given the starting wing back positions ahead of him. Cuddy is a player of huge potential and O'Connell has done well in the wing back position the last few years for club and county. Cleere does bring a scoring threat and perhaps that is something Gleeson will look to when thinking what way to set up in 2025. If Cb could get a run in Leinster and Cleere continues to perform it would be hard to dismiss his claims for more gametime.   

Quote from: Laois Rising on October 11, 2024, 04:01:34 PMBased on what you have seen Ottoman from the championship who else do you think might add to the Laois starting 15 next year. I felt while we gave Offaly a really good rattle in the Joe McD final I do think we are a couple of quality players light if we were in Leinster this year. We have yet to replace Kavanagh and Cha in an attacking sense (granted Quinlan, Keyes and Duggan still have plenty of scope for further improvement to reach those levels) and defensively, while solid, it currently won't be enough to compete with the top level sides. Wexford hit us for 32 points easing up in the prelim this year. Cleere is an excellent club hurler but you could argue for the merits of O'Connell and Cuddy who were given the starting wing back positions ahead of him. Cuddy is a player of huge potential and O'Connell has done well in the wing back position the last few years for club and county. Cleere does bring a scoring threat and perhaps that is something Gleeson will look to when thinking what way to set up in 2025. If Cb could get a run in Leinster and Cleere continues to perform it would be hard to dismiss his claims for more gametime.   

I think our main problem, is as you said our forward line. I made a point here a few months back at the time of the Joe MaC final. If you look at the 2019 team, our forward lines choices were from Mark Kavanagh, Cha, a prime Picky, Willy Dunphy, and Roddy. Aaron Dunphy to be fair was exceptional on both teams.

Until we get the likes of Quinlan, Keyes and Duggan to those standards, division 1 will be tough. And from what I've watched this year, I don't see too many better options up front on what those lads bring to the table.

I'm not sure how others see it, but the first priority for Laois this year is staying in division 1B firstly. Can we beat Antrim,Carlow, Westmeath and Offaly on a good day is most definitely yes. Most will expect Waterford and Dublin to be 1 and 2, but I don't believe that Dublin are world beaters so it's a lottery other than the Deise. The u20s last year drew with Wexford and lost to the eventual ALL ireland champions, so I can see this manager bring 3 or 4 of those lads in, I'm afraid that(like mist years) a couple will not commit. But we only have 8 senior teams and although I'm in the minority, I'm glad to see that raised to double figures, quite simply because for young hurlers, senior hurling improves their touch and their development in general. Finally our focus will hopefully be primed and fully fit to win the Joe Mcdonagh. Westmeath should be the team closest to us, but there may be a few variables to overcome before then. I will leave you with why I believe that we were poor against Wexford in that preliminary quarter final. Iv looked back at that final against Offaly and I fully believe that Laois were unbelievably unlucky that day. We were hit by two suckered punches, especially the goal at the start of the second half, the shot hitting the crossbar and offalys first goal. We scored 26 points that day against a team that went on to lift an u20 crown. Anyway we will just have to wait for the fixtures for the coming year and hope that the boy's want to put on the blue and white again.