https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/02/11/neutrality-no-longer-seen-as-viable-posture-for-europe-post-ukraine/
Ukraine was the point of no return in Finland attitudes. "Neutrality" has long evolved into "military non-alignment" and a gradual closening to Nato, now membership. For years polls had shown only 22 – 25 per cent supported joining Nato. But by June 2022 it was 75 per cent. And Sweden followed.
Even in Switzerland, officially neutral since 1815, 52 per cent of respondents surveyed in May and June favoured closer links with Nato.
Support for neutrality in Austria remains high, although EU accession in 1995 was a clear sign of transition to a broader interpretation of neutrality. Of those surveyed recently only 16 per cent favour joining Nato. But, surrounded by five Nato members, Austrians feel protected and it has been taken for granted that Austria can rely on external help in the event of an attack.
It shares with Ireland the largely unspoken assumption of a Nato security blanket, essentially freeriding on neighbours' willingness to come to our defence if attacked, a commitment made explicit now in the EU treaty. In Ireland, inevitably, squaring that reality will mean a gradual de facto reimagining of "neutrality" for a new age, initially with a commitment to a 50 per cent increase in defence spending.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/02/06/defence-forces-vulnerable-as-irish-neutrality-over-finnish-military-expert-claims/
Lieut Gen Pulkkinen said a lack of resources within the Naval Service and Air Corps represented a serious "vulnerability" for the Republic. He agreed that, at present, if a significant threat emerged – such as the presence of a hostile nation's military in Irish airspace – Ireland would be dependent on Britain's Royal Air Force responding to investigate or, in an extreme scenario, take more lethal action.
Defence Forces officers also remain very concerned that Ireland does not have primary surveillance radar to monitor the country's airspace, which they describe as "basic" technology.
Asked what Ireland's defence vulnerabilities were and how they should be addressed, Lieut Gen Pulkkinen said: "Provide your Defence Forces with sustainable and reasonable long-term funding, that's one of the vulnerabilities you have inside your military."
Due to the changing security climate – with a much more aggressive Russia and cyberthreats coming from teams of hackers backed by rogue states – he believed "traditional neutrality is over". Following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, he said all countries had to "adapt" in their preparedness to defend themselves, starting with being able to monitor their seas and airspace.
Lieut Gen Pulkkinen said the consequences of the war – higher inflation, increased fuel and energy prices, and millions of displaced Ukrainians – demonstrate how "everything could be weaponised... food, energy, human beings". This, he said, underlined the need for a "strong and agile" Defence Forces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTIRNnY1SZU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTIRNnY1SZU)
Interesting article here on the state of Ireland's defence forces
https://www.irishpoliticsnewsletter.ie/p/ireland-neutrality?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Interesting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
Last I heard, was cables and pipelines are protected by the companies themselves , not the country's defence forces
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 10:18:34 AMInteresting article here on the state of Ireland's defence forces
https://www.irishpoliticsnewsletter.ie/p/ireland-neutrality?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
https://www.ft.com/content/0b351091-3f82-4f2f-bef2-a52a35f009f2
Ireland, a non-Nato member which has historically relied on the UK and US for its defence, is particularly vulnerable to Russian sabotage; the accession of Sweden and Finland to the alliance two years ago has further increased its status as a relative outlier within Europe.
https://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Any damage to them could disrupt financial markets across Europe and the US and cause a giant internet outage affecting homes, hospitals, banks and businesses. Ireland also relies on subsea pipelines for most of its energy; a strike on such infrastructure could cut power to much of the country. Yet Ireland has no radar and no sonar. Caoimhín Mac Unfraidh, a former Irish naval commander who spent almost three decades in the defence forces, says the country's ability to protect the cables is "essentially zero". He adds: "We do not have a subsea inspection capability other than that based in our naval diving section, which would primarily be manned, and therefore limited in how deep it can go." As a former senior European security official puts it: "Ireland is undefended, it really is. It's absolutely shocking." When Ireland's navy spots a suspicious ship, it follows a decades-old procedure. "There's an etiquette to all this," says one person familiar with such encounters. "You don't get closer than two miles initially. Then at two miles you call them up and say 'hello, we're Irish naval warship' and you start talking to them, trying to get something out of them."
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 12:59:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Annoys me when I hear the term freeload, which was the undertone of the article.
Everyone in Europe depends on these cables, was that not another point of the article?
So maybe the author can write another article on the freeloading Austrians, Swiss and Luxembourgers with no f*****g navies at all.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 10:18:34 AMInteresting article here on the state of Ireland's defence forces
https://www.irishpoliticsnewsletter.ie/p/ireland-neutrality?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
the anonymous Tullmcadoo from '×'... a big FG supporter by their posts
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 01:07:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 12:59:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Annoys me when I hear the term freeload, which was the undertone of the article.
Everyone in Europe depends on these cables, was that not another point of the article?
So maybe the author can write another article on the freeloading Austrians, Swiss and Luxembourgers with no f*****g navies at all.
We can't deal with drones or Russian interference. We can't deal with Russian ships entering our waters. We have 4 ships.
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 02:26:06 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 01:07:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 12:59:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Annoys me when I hear the term freeload, which was the undertone of the article.
Everyone in Europe depends on these cables, was that not another point of the article?
So maybe the author can write another article on the freeloading Austrians, Swiss and Luxembourgers with no f*****g navies at all.
We can't deal with drones or Russian interference. We can't deal with Russian ships entering our waters. We have 4 ships.
Stating the bleeding obvious. Still doesn't explain the point of the article or solution to problem, apart from stating some of the bleeding obvious.
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 02:26:06 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 01:07:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 12:59:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Annoys me when I hear the term freeload, which was the undertone of the article.
Everyone in Europe depends on these cables, was that not another point of the article?
So maybe the author can write another article on the freeloading Austrians, Swiss and Luxembourgers with no f*****g navies at all.
We can't deal with drones or Russian interference. We can't deal with Russian ships entering our waters. We have 4 ships.
We also can't deal with British invasion and occupation. The biggest threat to Ireland has always been on our doorstep. Why are we so scared of the Russians?
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 02:35:11 PMWhy are we so scared of the Russians?
Because they are happy to damage the running of countries - neighbours and beyond.
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 02:32:10 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 02:26:06 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 01:07:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 12:59:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Annoys me when I hear the term freeload, which was the undertone of the article.
Everyone in Europe depends on these cables, was that not another point of the article?
So maybe the author can write another article on the freeloading Austrians, Swiss and Luxembourgers with no f*****g navies at all.
We can't deal with drones or Russian interference. We can't deal with Russian ships entering our waters. We have 4 ships.
Stating the bleeding obvious. Still doesn't explain the point of the article or solution to problem, apart from stating some of the bleeding obvious.
We need to spend more on defence. The Navy and the Air Corps need to be equipped to defend the country's interests, same as any other country. Ireland spends 0.24% of GDP on defence.
The European Union European Defence Agency member state average spend on defence as a percentage of GDP was 1.6% in 2023. So we spend one sixth of the average.
The Army isn't ready to deal with loyalist trouble in a United Ireland either. There is a lot of catching up to do.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 05, 2025, 02:04:14 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 10:18:34 AMInteresting article here on the state of Ireland's defence forces
https://www.irishpoliticsnewsletter.ie/p/ireland-neutrality?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
the anonymous Tullmcadoo from '×'... a big FG supporter by their posts
It was written by a FG supporter...and?
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 03:02:08 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 02:32:10 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 02:26:06 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 01:07:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 12:59:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 05, 2025, 11:55:04 AMInteresting alright, if a bit preachy. I've read other opinions of the same type. Hit's on a few valid points but very unrealistic in others.
Doesn't explain exactly how Ireland is getting rich with data centres or having cables ran through our territorial waters either. The former is not a massive employer and is actually putting huge pressures on our NG using massive energy at discounted rates.
Doesn't explain how exactly we should be defending these infrastructures either. They come into our waters and go out again, it's a joint infrastructure for ALL of Europe. We're a small island of 5 million people with no military infrastructure, inclination or history. So it would be completely moronic to just dump all this shit in out waters and expect us to defend it. If they are arguing we are caught with our pants completely down, then we're not alone. And we've bailed out plenty with regards to Europe so far.
We can't defend the cables. We depend on them. We have to ask the Brits for help. We freeload. It's not serious.
Annoys me when I hear the term freeload, which was the undertone of the article.
Everyone in Europe depends on these cables, was that not another point of the article?
So maybe the author can write another article on the freeloading Austrians, Swiss and Luxembourgers with no f*****g navies at all.
We can't deal with drones or Russian interference. We can't deal with Russian ships entering our waters. We have 4 ships.
Stating the bleeding obvious. Still doesn't explain the point of the article or solution to problem, apart from stating some of the bleeding obvious.
We need to spend more on defence. The Navy and the Air Corps need to be equipped to defend the country's interests, same as any other country. Ireland spends 0.24% of GDP on defence.
The European Union European Defence Agency member state average spend on defence as a percentage of GDP was 1.6% in 2023. So we spend one sixth of the average.
The Army isn't ready to deal with loyalist trouble in a United Ireland either. There is a lot of catching up to do.
We are a small non-war mongering nation. Traditionally we had no reason to spend on defense. Comparing our percentages to EU countries is a bit disingenuous. As is the term defense. Traditionally these big European countries invested in the military for speculation and colonization and conquest, as much as it did for "defense". They gained massive wealth and expertise from this approach and reinvested in military so it was a self fulfilling system. So their base is a lot higher than ours.
Notwithstanding all that I get some of the points. We are in Europe now, it's a community and we all need to chip in and think more about the security of the union. So we do need to change our mindset.
But as an Irishman, what I won't accept is the finger wagging preachy tone of that article. The union should be based on mutual co-operation and respect, and to defend the Atlantic will take major investment. This is as much the responsibility, and failure, of the union as a whole, not just lazy little freeloading Ireland.
"Traditionally these big European countries invested in the military for speculation and colonization and conquest, as much as it did for "defense". They gained massive wealth and expertise from this approach and reinvested in military so it was a self fulfilling system. So their base is a lot higher than ours."
European Defence spending is significantly lower than in the 80s when the Soviet Union was a threat. We should be closer to 1.6%.
So... it sounds like you're all in agreement, that Ireland should join NATO?
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 03:37:27 PM"Traditionally these big European countries invested in the military for speculation and colonization and conquest, as much as it did for "defense". They gained massive wealth and expertise from this approach and reinvested in military so it was a self fulfilling system. So their base is a lot higher than ours."
European Defence spending is significantly lower than in the 80s when the Soviet Union was a threat. We should be closer to 1.6%.
Right so Europe dropped the ball on European defense. Not sure what they expect us to do about that.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 03:00:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 02:35:11 PMWhy are we so scared of the Russians?
Because they are happy to damage the running of countries - neighbours and beyond.
Just like the US so? Why aren't we afraid of the yanks? How many regime changes, illegal wars, black ops do we need to fear the yanks?
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 03:00:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 02:35:11 PMWhy are we so scared of the Russians?
Because they are happy to damage the running of countries - neighbours and beyond.
Just like the US so? Why aren't we afraid of the yanks? How many regime changes, illegal wars, black ops do we need to fear the yanks?
Have the yanks ever carried out a hack like the Russian one on the HSE?
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 03:00:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 02:35:11 PMWhy are we so scared of the Russians?
Because they are happy to damage the running of countries - neighbours and beyond.
Just like the US so? Why aren't we afraid of the yanks? How many regime changes, illegal wars, black ops do we need to fear the yanks?
Have the yanks ever carried out a hack like the Russian one on the HSE?
You're saying the Russian government hacked the HSE? Do you have your tinfoil hat on you?
Wait until you find out about the The Brits blowing up Dublin and Monaghan.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 05:19:08 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 03:00:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 02:35:11 PMWhy are we so scared of the Russians?
Because they are happy to damage the running of countries - neighbours and beyond.
Just like the US so? Why aren't we afraid of the yanks? How many regime changes, illegal wars, black ops do we need to fear the yanks?
Have the yanks ever carried out a hack like the Russian one on the HSE?
You're saying the Russian government hacked the HSE? Do you have your tinfoil hat on you?
Wait until you find out about the The Brits blowing up Dublin and Monaghan.
You started with the yanks, and now it's the Brits.
'Look over there, stop picking on poor Russia'.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 05:24:12 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 05:19:08 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 05, 2025, 03:00:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 02:35:11 PMWhy are we so scared of the Russians?
Because they are happy to damage the running of countries - neighbours and beyond.
Just like the US so? Why aren't we afraid of the yanks? How many regime changes, illegal wars, black ops do we need to fear the yanks?
Have the yanks ever carried out a hack like the Russian one on the HSE?
You're saying the Russian government hacked the HSE? Do you have your tinfoil hat on you?
Wait until you find out about the The Brits blowing up Dublin and Monaghan.
You started with the yanks, and now it's the Brits.
'Look over there, stop picking on poor Russia'.
You are the one spreading conspiracy theories that the Russian government hacked the HSE? It's you who is all over the place here.
Conversely you don't seem bothered about a neighbouring state who have committed terrorist atrocities on Irish citizens and towns and villages.
Strange fellow.
No need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
Another thread ruined by you pair of doses.
Is there no moderators on here anymore???
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2025, 06:11:36 PMAnother thread ruined by you pair of doses.
Is there no moderators on here anymore???
How am I ruining a thread by countering conspiracy theories?
Not everyone is guilty by association. Cop yourself on.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
None of that has anything to do with the threat posed by Russia today.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2025, 06:11:36 PMAnother thread ruined by you pair of doses.
Is there no moderators on here anymore???
Eh no. I dug up this thread in order to share an interesting article I read earlier today.
This prompted some debate among posters.
It's not my fault someone criticised Russia and HoG shit himself as a result.
Building some kind of Radar would be a start, NASMAS, Patriots, underwater detection maybe even a Frigate. All those things would be too expensive I imagine and take at least 10-15 years to procure. Still you can spend all this money but modern American, Chinese, Russian and British SSBNS are incredibly capable, difficult to detect and unfortunately you are still relying on the Brits to try and shadow any Russian ones.
Good points. It's a waste of time us spending any money on defense if it's just dumping overpriced obsolete old shit on us as a means to clear out their spaces and rip us off for their profit.
Any serious defense systems must be the latest and most advanced in military hi-tech. That means the sharing of knowledge, intelligence and hardware and training and investing in us fully. Anything less than that we'll save our money and try build a few houses for the refugees they've dumped on us.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:37:58 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
None of that has anything to do with the threat posed by Russia today.
The threat in your wild imagination?
You need serious help.
He's not the only one!
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:29:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:37:58 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
None of that has anything to do with the threat posed by Russia today.
The threat in your wild imagination?
You need serious help.
Russia is an enemy.
The Brits aren't. Neither are the Americans.
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 08:52:23 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:29:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:37:58 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
None of that has anything to do with the threat posed by Russia today.
The threat in your wild imagination?
You need serious help.
Russia is an enemy.
The Brits aren't. Neither are the Americans.
This should be good. The Brits are currently breaking international law to protect killers of a 12 year old Catholic girl shot in the back and murdered from being prosecuted.
The Yanks have for the past 3 years being arming a genocidal nation to the teeth with weapons and financial support, starving a civilian population as they maim and kill children at every turn. Using a veto to stop Israel being held to account for war crimes.
They are your allies, are they?
Europe is getting ready for war - they have been since the end of Covid. Remember that scam - buy a €9 meal and you can go for a drink and you are safe.
The Yanks don't care because it's not on their doorstep and they are scrambling trying to remain relevant - they are an empire in decline.
The lies will continue on Main stream media.
We (Ireland) are a complete mess. We'll be upping the self defence mode, which has be more than mooted the last couple of years.
Luckily I live a fair distance from Belfast and Dublin.
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 08:52:23 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:29:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:37:58 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
None of that has anything to do with the threat posed by Russia today.
The threat in your wild imagination?
You need serious help.
Russia is an enemy.
The Brits aren't. Neither are the Americans.
The Brits will always be an enemy. The Americans can't be trusted at the best of times and with the orange clown in charge should be totally boycotted
£££££££ talks f**k humanity.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2025, 11:09:35 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2025, 08:52:23 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:29:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:37:58 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:01:27 PMNo need to worry about Russia in 2025 folks because the Brits had their fingerprints all over Dublin-Monaghan in 1974.
That's the logic this genius employs.
The Brits haven't changed in 2025. 50 years and still no justice, victims families going to their grave denied justice and answers. That's the western world you adore.
Ask the victims of state terrorism and see what justice was served. Ask the Palestinians who are being murdered in their hundreds every day with British weapons and components, in full knowledge. Ask the Palestinians about the British PM who said Israel have the right to genocide them.
You have quite a twisted and sick world view.
None of that has anything to do with the threat posed by Russia today.
The threat in your wild imagination?
You need serious help.
Russia is an enemy.
The Brits aren't. Neither are the Americans.
The Brits will always be an enemy. The Americans can't be trusted at the best of times and with the orange clown in charge should be totally boycotted
Open question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Anybody else please feel free to answer the question for him. I'll allow contestants to confer for this one.
Another scroll through thread. Thanks lads.
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 06, 2025, 10:49:45 AMAnother scroll through thread. Thanks lads.
Moderators have left the group it seems
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2025, 11:16:47 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 06, 2025, 10:49:45 AMAnother scroll through thread. Thanks lads.
Moderators have left the group it seems
Would you ever wind you neck and stop associating me with that. He has this place destroyed with his relentless smears and propaganda regardless of me challenging it or not.
Cop yourself on.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 10:09:03 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Well? You've had long enough?
What does AI say?
https://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 12:21:18 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 10:09:03 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Well? You've had long enough?
What does AI say?
You ran away from the point I made as you're completely and an utter hypocrite.
Like you, the most vocal "pro-Ukraine" (that actually couldn't give a continental about Ukranians) have no issue with occupied forces committing terrorist atrocities on their island. In fact not only did they have no issue but they didn't do anything to support their fellow country men undergoing sectarian pogroms, state sponsored violence, murder and intimidation, denial of their human rights and institutional discrimination, they only blamed the victims for it.
This was inflicted by a state who have committed genocide on our people and still occupy our lands and ensure injustice to this day.
And you won't even address this. It's funny how the most fervent of the "pro-Ukraine" mon were so in favour or occupation and dehumanisation of Catholics in their homeland in the north of Ireland.
I'd rather you address this but you're trying to deflect with your usual smear and nonsense propaganda.
You don't care about Ukraine. You don't care about Ireland. You only care about Western imperialism succeeding at whatever cost. You are a fanatic and an extremist, a dangerous one.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 01:30:41 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 12:21:18 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 10:09:03 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Well? You've had long enough?
What does AI say?
You ran away from the point I made as you're completely and an utter hypocrite.
Like you, the most vocal "pro-Ukraine" (that actually couldn't give a continental about Ukranians) have no issue with occupied forces committing terrorist atrocities on their island. In fact not only did they have no issue but they didn't do anything to support their fellow country men undergoing sectarian pogroms, state sponsored violence, murder and intimidation, denial of their human rights and institutional discrimination, they only blamed the victims for it.
This was inflicted by a state who have committed genocide on our people and still occupy our lands and ensure injustice to this day.
And you won't even address this. It's funny how the most fervent of the "pro-Ukraine" mon were so in favour or occupation and dehumanisation of Catholics in their homeland in the north of Ireland.
I'd rather you address this but you're trying to deflect with your usual smear and nonsense propaganda.
You don't care about Ukraine. You don't care about Ireland. You only care about Western imperialism succeeding at whatever cost. You are a fanatic and an extremist, a dangerous one.
What has this rant got to do with neutrality? Try to follow the programme.
Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 01:40:51 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 01:30:41 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 12:21:18 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 10:09:03 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Well? You've had long enough?
What does AI say?
You ran away from the point I made as you're completely and an utter hypocrite.
Like you, the most vocal "pro-Ukraine" (that actually couldn't give a continental about Ukranians) have no issue with occupied forces committing terrorist atrocities on their island. In fact not only did they have no issue but they didn't do anything to support their fellow country men undergoing sectarian pogroms, state sponsored violence, murder and intimidation, denial of their human rights and institutional discrimination, they only blamed the victims for it.
This was inflicted by a state who have committed genocide on our people and still occupy our lands and ensure injustice to this day.
And you won't even address this. It's funny how the most fervent of the "pro-Ukraine" mon were so in favour or occupation and dehumanisation of Catholics in their homeland in the north of Ireland.
I'd rather you address this but you're trying to deflect with your usual smear and nonsense propaganda.
You don't care about Ukraine. You don't care about Ireland. You only care about Western imperialism succeeding at whatever cost. You are a fanatic and an extremist, a dangerous one.
What has this rant got to do with neutrality? Try to follow the programme.
I asked you a question earlier relevant to neutrality and you ran away.
You are only able to contribute in a superficial, condescending and trolling manner.
How can Russia be our enemy when they have done nothing to us and Britain be our ally when they have committed genocide on Irish people, committed numerous terrorist atrocities, still illegally occupy our lands and to this very day still deny victims and families the justice and truth of their war crimes on the Catholic population?
You won't answer this as your whole position is riddled in contradictions. This is what happens when you are breast fed propaganda all your life, as you clearly have been. You are afraid of having your views examined.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 10:12:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 01:40:51 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 01:30:41 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 12:21:18 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 10:09:03 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Well? You've had long enough?
What does AI say?
You ran away from the point I made as you're completely and an utter hypocrite.
Like you, the most vocal "pro-Ukraine" (that actually couldn't give a continental about Ukranians) have no issue with occupied forces committing terrorist atrocities on their island. In fact not only did they have no issue but they didn't do anything to support their fellow country men undergoing sectarian pogroms, state sponsored violence, murder and intimidation, denial of their human rights and institutional discrimination, they only blamed the victims for it.
This was inflicted by a state who have committed genocide on our people and still occupy our lands and ensure injustice to this day.
And you won't even address this. It's funny how the most fervent of the "pro-Ukraine" mon were so in favour or occupation and dehumanisation of Catholics in their homeland in the north of Ireland.
I'd rather you address this but you're trying to deflect with your usual smear and nonsense propaganda.
You don't care about Ukraine. You don't care about Ireland. You only care about Western imperialism succeeding at whatever cost. You are a fanatic and an extremist, a dangerous one.
What has this rant got to do with neutrality? Try to follow the programme.
I asked you a question earlier relevant to neutrality and you ran away.
You are only able to contribute in a superficial, condescending and trolling manner.
How can Russia be our enemy when they have done nothing to us and Britain be our ally when they have committed genocide on Irish people, committed numerous terrorist atrocities, still illegally occupy our lands and to this very day still deny victims and families the justice and truth of their war crimes on the Catholic population?
You won't answer this as your whole position is riddled in contradictions. This is what happens when you are breast fed propaganda all your life, as you clearly have been. You are afraid of having your views examined.
Russia was behind the drones targeted at Zelenskyy's airplane in Irish water during the week. It's asymmetric warfare. It has nothing to do with British history.
https://www.michaelmcdowell.ie/ireland-badly-needs-to-face-up-to-the-minimum-responsibilities-entailed-in-our-independence/
While Northern Ireland is relatively peaceful, the underlying potential for violence still exists and could easily be magnified in the context of any movement towards constitutional change.
How many Irish women and men could, if called upon, rally to the flag and handle an automatic weapon? How many Irish students, trainees and apprentices could assist the Irish State in an emergency? More worrying is the question as to whether the full-time Army membership could face down well-planned widespread political violence of a paramilitary kind were it to emerge.
There are a lot of permutations that would have different cause and effect outcomes. I imagine if there was a referendum which passed, there would need to be an agreed transition period thereafter before the constitutional change would be officially recognised, maybe even up to 20 years to allow for alignments, pensions, education and health merging.
Assuming the British government accepted and approved a changeover, the potential for a concerted campaign of violence would be more limited, I think. How would it be funded? A population being taken over by a foreign force will have rebel resistance, particularly when a part separated from its motherland. But in this case, the loyalist rebels would have the existential problem that the motherland they would be fighting to remain connected with would have cut them loose. Would this mean that they would instead be fighting to become an independent entity, which raises a whole other slew of territorial considerations.
On the idea of being trained or prepared to fight should the need arise, would a conversation around compulsory national/ military service be needed? This could have many different possibilities, and to what degree could it balance providing training, community and national services that could align with pathways into the army full-time, or training and apprenticeship courses, and even college/ universities with the cost of rolling out, running, and maintaining such a system?
Speaking of the Russians and state security - there was the odd case of 'Cobalt' a few years ago.
Russians wanting to stir up loyalist violence in the north with reference to the Irish Sea border if my memory serves me correctly.
Why they thought the numpty involved would have any sway is beyond anyone's knowledge.
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2025, 11:43:34 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 10:12:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 01:40:51 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 01:30:41 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 12:21:18 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 10:09:03 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 06, 2025, 09:59:47 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 06, 2025, 09:48:42 AMOpen question to all:
If Britain did decide to invade Ireland again, as our perpetual enemy of course, ..do you think the Irish Army should resist?
Or should only the 'Ordinary Irish' resist, but without weapons of course, as per RBB, HoG and every other tankie far-left fantasist muppet out there? 😂😂
We all know the answer of course.
Javelins would stop British tanks too.
That's not a hypothetical question. It's historical fact.
Funnily enough your biggest cheerleaders of Ukranian militarism in the 26 feel that nationalists in the north should have just stayed quiet and accepted the consequences of occupation, sectarian pogroms and denial of their human rights.
In fact Micheal Martin, the protagonist of eroding Irish neutrality, also an Israeli propagandist went as far as to blame the troubles wholly on the PIRA.
You are also going to be undone by your hypocrisy. You don't have a moral standpoint here. It's like a football team to you, you don't care how it's done as long as your guys win.
Haha lots of words, bluster and bullshit but you didn't address the question as usual 😂😂
If the Brits (the occupiers) poured over the border into the 26cos from the occupied north:
1. Should the armed forces of Ireland resist with the weapons available to them and those provided to them by allies?
2. 'Ordinary citizens' confront the tanks? Without weapons of course so there is no 'escalation'?
3. HoG confront the tanks on a shining white horse holding aloft a Sabina Higgins poem on glittering golden paper?
Which is it HoG, 1,2 or 3?
Well? You've had long enough?
What does AI say?
You ran away from the point I made as you're completely and an utter hypocrite.
Like you, the most vocal "pro-Ukraine" (that actually couldn't give a continental about Ukranians) have no issue with occupied forces committing terrorist atrocities on their island. In fact not only did they have no issue but they didn't do anything to support their fellow country men undergoing sectarian pogroms, state sponsored violence, murder and intimidation, denial of their human rights and institutional discrimination, they only blamed the victims for it.
This was inflicted by a state who have committed genocide on our people and still occupy our lands and ensure injustice to this day.
And you won't even address this. It's funny how the most fervent of the "pro-Ukraine" mon were so in favour or occupation and dehumanisation of Catholics in their homeland in the north of Ireland.
I'd rather you address this but you're trying to deflect with your usual smear and nonsense propaganda.
You don't care about Ukraine. You don't care about Ireland. You only care about Western imperialism succeeding at whatever cost. You are a fanatic and an extremist, a dangerous one.
What has this rant got to do with neutrality? Try to follow the programme.
I asked you a question earlier relevant to neutrality and you ran away.
You are only able to contribute in a superficial, condescending and trolling manner.
How can Russia be our enemy when they have done nothing to us and Britain be our ally when they have committed genocide on Irish people, committed numerous terrorist atrocities, still illegally occupy our lands and to this very day still deny victims and families the justice and truth of their war crimes on the Catholic population?
You won't answer this as your whole position is riddled in contradictions. This is what happens when you are breast fed propaganda all your life, as you clearly have been. You are afraid of having your views examined.
Russia was behind the drones targeted at Zelenskyy's airplane in Irish water during the week. It's asymmetric warfare. It has nothing to do with British history.
You seem to be far gone in propaganda absorption from Western media. It's not British history. The British still occupy 6 counties of Ireland. They still defy human rights and deny justice and the truth to the victims of their terrorism on this island. That's a far graver and tangible impact on the lives of Irish people than what you're claiming.
While we are at the US have used Irish airspace and Irish airports to refuel on their way to committing war crimes.
It's easy to see how hypocritical and insincere your stance is here.
On the drone incursion during Zelenskyys visit:
https://x.com/kevpipps/status/1997679683786395910?s=46
https://www.ft.com/content/2084e87d-d491-4852-8449-f90b73d4788b
In July 2024, DHL parcels exploded in logistics centres in the UK, Poland and Germany. Each of them was powerful enough to have brought down a cargo plane had they detonated onboard. Security services would eventually trace the plot back to a group of Russian-directed saboteurs who had a further 6kg of explosive material in their possession. That was enough to give them the capability for what security officials told the Financial Times was the next stage of the plan: to attack flights to the US, and cause more disruption to the airline industry than any act of terror since the World Trade Center attacks. It was just one near-miss incident in a co-ordinated and covert campaign of sabotage led by Moscow, officials believe, that has sown bewilderment across the continent and is steadily posing more of a risk to human lives.
Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 12:33:52 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT.
They aren't that bad. The FT is on a sales pitch for big weapons. NATO can easily contact the DF.
During the cold war nobody bothered trying to sell us kit. Now we are rich they are queuing up and the FT in particular are pushing how it is our moral obligation to buy big
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 09, 2025, 09:17:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 12:33:52 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT.
They aren't that bad. The FT is on a sales pitch for big weapons. NATO can easily contact the DF.
During the cold war nobody bothered trying to sell us kit. Now we are rich they are queuing up and the FT in particular are pushing how it is our moral obligation to buy big
The military industrial complex wants to make more money so they have leaned on the Financial Times to write stories to put pressure on the Irish government buy expensive weapons?
Is that what you're saying?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 09, 2025, 09:26:08 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 09, 2025, 09:17:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 12:33:52 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT.
They aren't that bad. The FT is on a sales pitch for big weapons. NATO can easily contact the DF.
During the cold war nobody bothered trying to sell us kit. Now we are rich they are queuing up and the FT in particular are pushing how it is our moral obligation to buy big
The military industrial complex wants to make more money so they have leaned on the Financial Times to write stories to put pressure on the Irish government buy expensive weapons?
Is that what you're saying?
Shhhh.
You are looking ridiculous at this point with your relentless propaganda.
The print media do not engage in good faith on pretty much most topics. They present a narrative that their billionaire owners and conglomerates want them to push. That is not new or earth shattering so it is surprising someone would actually try and contend that.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 09, 2025, 09:17:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 12:33:52 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT.
They aren't that bad. The FT is on a sales pitch for big weapons. NATO can easily contact the DF.
During the cold war nobody bothered trying to sell us kit. Now we are rich they are queuing up and the FT in particular are pushing how it is our moral obligation to buy big
The military industrial complex wants to make more money so they have leaned on the Financial Times to write stories to put pressure on the Irish government buy expensive weapons?
Is that what you're saying?
IBEC is senior hurling.
Employers group Ibec has called on the Government to increase investment in Ireland's defence and security.
The representative body said the country's defence and security vulnerabilities are a critical issue for business.
Ibec said the ongoing global conflicts require "increased efforts" to ensure Ireland can protect itself and the businesses that operate here.
It said robust security is the "bedrock for business, ensuring security of supply, the ability to transact, and confidence in the rule of law."
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2025/1210/1548162-ibec-business-defence/
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2025, 11:59:51 AMIBEC is senior hurling.
Employers group Ibec has called on the Government to increase investment in Ireland's defence and security.
The representative body said the country's defence and security vulnerabilities are a critical issue for business.
Ibec said the ongoing global conflicts require "increased efforts" to ensure Ireland can protect itself and the businesses that operate here.
It said robust security is the "bedrock for business, ensuring security of supply, the ability to transact, and confidence in the rule of law."
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2025/1210/1548162-ibec-business-defence/
The IBEC...but wait, perhaps everyone should consult the manager of Kneecap on the matter to see what he thinks about the whole thing?
Fear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 12:36:31 PMFear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
What fear mongering driven by the US are you referring to?
Is this the same US that's currently trying to sell out Ukraine to the Russians?
You lot really need to modernise your conspiracy theories.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 01:00:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 12:36:31 PMFear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
What fear mongering driven by the US are you referring to?
Is this the same US that's currently trying to sell out Ukraine to the Russians?
You lot really need to modernise your conspiracy theories.
The American arms companies who stand to gain from us arming up. As someone else said funny enough there was no mention of this shite when we'd no money to spend.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 01:00:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 12:36:31 PMFear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
What fear mongering driven by the US are you referring to?
Is this the same US that's currently trying to sell out Ukraine to the Russians?
You lot really need to modernise your conspiracy theories.
They sold out the Ukranian people long before that when they were meddling in their governments. US NGOs pumping billions into Ukraine to apparently tackle corruption (stop laughing at the back). And now the US backed Ukrainian government have major corruption and missing money problems on their hands.
Given you spout relentless propaganda and are incapable of balance or any objectivity I don't expect you to take on board these points.
The Russians have nefarious intentions in Ukraine as do the US, EU and UK.
To keep denying the role of the West is this war is conspiracy theory stuff. You are denying what's in front of your face.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 01:02:00 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 01:00:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 12:36:31 PMFear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
What fear mongering driven by the US are you referring to?
Is this the same US that's currently trying to sell out Ukraine to the Russians?
You lot really need to modernise your conspiracy theories.
The American arms companies who stand to gain from us arming up. As someone else said funny enough there was no mention of this shite when we'd no money to spend.
So US arms companies have looked at Ireland's balance sheet and had a boardroom meeting and decided to 'start fearmongering' in order to scare the Irish into buying their weapons? Is that it?
Do you have the minutes of the meeting? I'd love to see them.
Has anything else happened in the past 4 years that might have made this an actual priority?
How do you know the Irish government will buy US arms?
You lads can conjure up any old shite to suit your ideology.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 01:02:00 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 01:00:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 12:36:31 PMFear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
What fear mongering driven by the US are you referring to?
Is this the same US that's currently trying to sell out Ukraine to the Russians?
You lot really need to modernise your conspiracy theories.
The American arms companies who stand to gain from us arming up. As someone else said funny enough there was no mention of this shite when we'd no money to spend.
It doesn't have to be American companies. We need radar and sonar and more planes and ships. European companies can provide stuff.
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2025, 02:37:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 01:02:00 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 01:00:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 12:36:31 PMFear mongering driven by the US again. Bastards.
What fear mongering driven by the US are you referring to?
Is this the same US that's currently trying to sell out Ukraine to the Russians?
You lot really need to modernise your conspiracy theories.
The American arms companies who stand to gain from us arming up. As someone else said funny enough there was no mention of this shite when we'd no money to spend.
It doesn't have to be American companies. We need radar and sonar and more planes and ships. European companies can provide stuff.
I'd say more doctors, more nurses, more police officers, more houses, more hospitals are of much bigger need than some military toys to sate war mongerers and their lust for militarism.
People like Brigid Laffan and Dan O'Brien are extremely dangerous people and they are regularly platformed across MSM.
I'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Quote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
Do we have any planes atm? I don't know tbh... How many would we need to protect ourselves from the big hitters? 5 / 10 would not cut the mustard.. 1000 be a good number, ships too if we're gonna have to defend ourselves we may as well do it right. Upscale our army numbers by a huge percentage, training grounds, accommodation...yes, trillions well spent and the coffers of the usual suspects filled. Always follow the money
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
Yeah yeah, those hostile aircrafts, bastids the lot of them
Sign me up for service
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
British ones?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
British ones?
When the British are being asked to patrol Irish skies then that would be a no.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:38:35 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
British ones?
When the British are being asked to patrol Irish skies then that would be a no.
Who is asking the Brits to patrol our skies?
Quote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:38:35 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
British ones?
When the British are being asked to patrol Irish skies then that would be a no.
Who is asking the Brits to patrol our skies?
The Irish government have an agreement with the UK since the 1950s to intercept unauthorised/hostile aircraft that enter Irish airspace.
Let's cancel the agreement then, shall we and hope all will be ok?
(Must have been lots of US military industrial complex fear-mongering back in the 1950s)
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:47:59 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:38:35 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
British ones?
When the British are being asked to patrol Irish skies then that would be a no.
Who is asking the Brits to patrol our skies?
The Irish government have an agreement with the UK since the 1950s to intercept unauthorised/hostile aircraft that enter Irish airspace.
Let's cancel the agreement then, shall we and hope all will be ok?
(Must have been lots of US military industrial complex fear-mongering back in the 1950s)
Ok, so how many unauthorised/hostile aircraft have been intercepted in 75 years?
You'd need to know before you spunk 100's of millions on fighter jets to protect Ireland from whoever.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:55:06 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:47:59 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:38:35 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 10, 2025, 03:12:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 02:59:37 PMI'd say maintaining our neutrality is a huge priority. We don't need to get sucked into any conflicts!
Being 'neutral' and being able to defend yourself are not mutually exclusive.
btw. what part of 'neutral' involves asking the Brits (eternal enemy) to protect Irish skies?
What are we asking the Brits to protect our skies from?
Incursions from unauthorised and potentially hostile aircraft.
It's ludicrous to think 'neutrality' protects you from anything.
British ones?
When the British are being asked to patrol Irish skies then that would be a no.
Who is asking the Brits to patrol our skies?
The Irish government have an agreement with the UK since the 1950s to intercept unauthorised/hostile aircraft that enter Irish airspace.
Let's cancel the agreement then, shall we and hope all will be ok?
(Must have been lots of US military industrial complex fear-mongering back in the 1950s)
Ok, so how many unauthorised/hostile aircraft have been intercepted in 75 years?
You'd need to know before you spunk 100's of millions on fighter jets to protect Ireland from whoever.
I typed things into a search engine so you didn't have to.
Russian bombers have repeatedly entered or flown near Irish-controlled airspace, particularly off the west coast, causing disruptions to civilian flights and prompting RAF fighter jet scrambles to escort them, often with their transponders off as a show of force or for reconnaissance, leading to diplomatic complaints from Ireland to Russia.
Key Incidents & Details:
February 2015: Two Russian Tu-95 "Bear" bombers flew through Irish-controlled airspace without warning, forcing the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) to divert one passenger plane and delay another's takeoff, notes The Telegraph and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.
Transponders Off: The Russian aircraft often operate with their transponders switched off, making them invisible to civilian air traffic control, according to The Telegraph and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.
UK Scrambles: The UK's RAF Typhoons are frequently dispatched to intercept and escort these bombers near Irish airspace, highlighting a security arrangement where Britain protects Irish airspace, says Wikipedia and Business Insider.
Motivations: These incursions are seen as Russia testing military responses, conducting surveillance, and demonstrating power amid geopolitical tensions, says RTE.ie and The Irish Times.
Ireland's Response: Ireland's Department of Foreign Affairs has sought assurances from the Russian ambassador after such incidents, demanding advance notification for military flights, notes The Week and The Journal.
You know I think the rest of Europe are missing out on a trick.
They should completely disarm, have no army, air force and navy and save a fortune.
An added bonus would be that anyone with any intention of hostility will then regard said country as something like 'The Shire', populated by friendly Hobbits and leave them well alone. To be sure, to be sure.
I wonder have the Lybians any SAM missles left lying around :D
Russia is going to enter Europe by 2030 supposedly, we might have left it too late for buying those eurofighters
By the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2025, 04:10:27 PMI wonder have the Lybians any SAM missles left lying around :D
Don't let Richard Boyd-Barrett catch you coming out with that type of chat!
There is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
The usual fools fuelling hypothetical scenarios based on nothing other than propaganda.
The incessant propaganda put forward by politicians, academics and media commentators with close link to Lockheed Martin etc is not being swallowed by the population.
Maybe they should sacrifice their own salaries to pay for their military toys. They go do it after they go and fight for Ukraine.
By the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
Maybe you can tell us about why a paranoia about Russians should mean we spend tax payers money on military toys rather than building more social houses to combat homelessness and regulate the rental market, hiring more police to reduce crime and keep citizens safe, invest in more healthcare staff to reduce hospital staff waiting lists, buy out private hospitals and build additional ones to make sure we have the capacity to meet our needs and nobody is priced out of healthcare.
Personally I think those who have a paranoia about Russia should be telling homeless people, victims of serious crime and cancer patients why military toys trump basic human rights.
Give us your answer.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
Quote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
Have a go at filling out the form and see how you get on.
Quote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
It could be actually American and Canadian baddies if they don't get mining the green hills of Tyrone :(
Not one of you can fill out that form.
And that's the reason why responsible countries spend on defence.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 09, 2025, 09:26:08 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 09, 2025, 09:17:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2025, 12:33:52 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT.
They aren't that bad. The FT is on a sales pitch for big weapons. NATO can easily contact the DF.
During the cold war nobody bothered trying to sell us kit. Now we are rich they are queuing up and the FT in particular are pushing how it is our moral obligation to buy big
The military industrial complex wants to make more money so they have leaned on the Financial Times to write stories to put pressure on the Irish government buy expensive weapons?
Is that what you're saying?
To put pressure on everyone to arm themselves to the teeth
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 06:51:40 PMNot one of you can fill out that form.
And that's the reason why responsible countries spend on defence.
Nobody is saying spending on defence hasn't been sufficient and the navy in particular is understaffed.
You can agree we need to open the checkbook while simultaneously recognising a clear and orchesated campaign of scaremongering
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 10, 2025, 07:53:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 06:51:40 PMNot one of you can fill out that form.
And that's the reason why responsible countries spend on defence.
Nobody is saying spending on defence hasn't been sufficient and the navy in particular is understaffed.
You can agree we need to open the checkbook while simultaneously recognising a clear and orchesated campaign of scaremongering
On the contrary, the mere suggestion that more should be spent on defence has induced some extreme panty-wetting from the usual suspects.
Do outline the clear and orchestrated campaign of scaremongering.
The issue has been rumbling in the background for years and been pushed to the forefront with the ongoing war in Ukraine, the recent behaviour of the US and the drone incident at Dublin Airport.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Dawn Sturgess, but sure do the whataboutery for me lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 10:07:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Dawn Sturgess, but sure do the whataboutery for me lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 10:07:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 07:41:55 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 10, 2025, 06:38:00 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 10, 2025, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on December 10, 2025, 05:01:15 PMThere is a irony in Sinn Fein supporters and politicians being some of the loudest Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 10, 2025, 04:26:14 PMBy the way, I've a short form to fill out for anyone if they wish to have a go.
I ___________ know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
<please insert reasons below as to how you know this>
p.s. it's the lack of 100% certainty that forces countries to spend on defence. The world is full of bad actors. Everyone would love to spend that money elsewhere. That's not the world we live in.
"Because we're great craic and everyone loves us"
Other countries will put bodies and euros on the line to dig us out.
Dig us out from who?
His schizophrenia it seems. He's see Russian baddies everywhere.
Well they did go to Salisbury and murder with that lovely Novichok :o
Murder who?
You might want to check out the antics of our next door neighbours who committed genocide and war crimes on these lands before worrying about the Russians.
Dawn Sturgess, but sure do the whataboutery for me lol
Whataboutery is what you're engaging in here.
You know what's in the news today? Stakeknife and MI5 and all murders of their own citizens that they were up to. Yet you are here creating Russian Bogeymen when the real threat is right on our doorstep. I think you are paranoid.
Eh? You need to lie down for a bit..
There were actual Russian assassins who came to kill, killed some innocent women minding her own business and here you are talking about something else!
As for stakeknife MI5 dirty war blah blah blah, I could write a book about it ffs!
The chat on this thread currently had turned to Russia, that's why we chatting about it..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2025, 10:40:59 PMEh? You need to lie down for a bit..
There were actual Russian assassins who came to kill, killed some innocent women minding her own business and here you are talking about something else!
As for stakeknife MI5 dirty war blah blah blah, I could write a book about it ffs!
The chat on this thread currently had turned to Russia, that's why we chatting about it..
You need to have a lie down. You are gone down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. The topic here is neutrality and the the loonie war mongerers ranting about Russia on no sensical grounds while ignoring the real threat to Ireland - the Brits.
Yesterday in the news, we had a report about an MI5 agent in Ireland who was responsible for numerous murders in full knowledge of his intelligence handlers and protected and allowed to carry out these murders. This happened in an occupied part of the island which British state agents have committed numerous murders of civilians and been protected from it.
And you are saying that the Russians are the problem? You sound insane here. The only whataboutery here is from you. The only state actors Irish people need be concerned about are the Brits.
You seem quite defensive of the Brits btw.
I'm not saying the Russians are my problem..
I couldn't give a flying shit tbf
But stop throwing out crap
I threw out a fact that they came to the UK under Putins orders to kill someone on foreign soil.
You keep switching (whataboutery) to something else, and now I love the Brits ;D
Try harder
So let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Quote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
We'll be under Sharia law soon enough anyways and be begging the Russians to invade to help us ;D
I think if Putin is still in charge he'll definitely invade other countries on his border, or 'move in'.
I think we safe enough in our life time. Russia will economically take 20 years to recover from this one.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
You've no idea what you're talking about do you?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'amazing'.
Quote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
I'm not 100% certain
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
So others are going to be 'doing it for us' anyway
But you're being very evasive on my question
What size does this army need to be?
Cos if you can't even tell me that much, it's hard to avoid the conclusion you're just another internet blowhard
What size is the defence force currently?
Is there any point spending a whole pile more for what will be the same result- if the US/Russia/Brits/France or whoever decided to invade tomorrow they'd blitz us, (South Armagh aside ;) )if we fired x amount of money at it, they'd still blitz us unless a friendly power decided to help us out..
That's right, why bother with an army at all because we're gonna be blitzed in any event ::)
Ireland could at least have a military that equals a relatively small republic such as Estonia with a population of 1.3m. Could we not manage that?
How is having an effective defence force contradicting a policy of neutrality unless neutrality also means bend over or turn the other cheek when a challenge comes?
For starters the country need maritime security and resources to maintain same and get funding for protection of undersea cables.
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2025, 10:14:52 AMThat's right, why bother with an army at all because we're gonna be blitzed in any event ::)
Ireland could at least have a military that equals a relatively small republic such as Estonia with a population of 1.3m. Could we not manage that?
How is having an effective defence force contradicting a policy of neutrality unless neutrality also means bend over or turn the other cheek when a challenge comes?
For starters the country need maritime security and resources to maintain same and get funding for protection of undersea cables.
We need deterrence. Like any good set of backs. We know what it looks like in sport.
Currently we are a soft target.
If we get started on a nuclear programme then it will be the opposite of a soft target
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2025/1211/1548324-ireland-politics/
Minister for Defence Helen McEntee will outline a €1.7 billion defence spending plan that will run until 2030.
It will aim to speed up the modernisation of the Defence Forces and to improve defence capabilities across land, air, maritime and cyber domains.
A key part of this initiative is the delivery of the Military Radar Programme, which will get under way next year.
There will also be millions of euro set aside for anti-drone technology which is particularly relevant given the sighting of drones close to the flight path of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky during his recent visit here.
More Air Corps helicopters along with an aircraft that can carry personnel and equipment over long distances will be purchased.
Major upgrades are also planned for the naval service's subsea capabilities while more funding will be available to renew the army's armoured fleet .
Currently, a hostile power like Russia doesn't need to land 100,000 troops on the beach in Wexford. They could bring Ireland to its knees with far less manpower and effort.
The remote cyber stuff is one aspect.
I'd suspect a few dozen personnel, unknown, unchecked and unhindered could neutralise Ireland's energy, communication, rail network, ports etc in short time.
We don't think it will happen, but we definitely have little means to prevent the possibility.
The countries in immediate danger from Russian attack are former Soviet states and countries in close proximity.
But, Putin and Russia generally has a big problem with prosperity and democracy to the west of them in Europe.
The more attractive an entity like the EU looks, the greater the pull away from Moscow.
Putin would have no problem taking advantage of Ireland's weak defence if it gave him an opportunity to destabilise Europe even further.
Being 'neutral' or canvassing that Russia and Ireland are good buddies and should remain so, is not a strong defence policy.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 09:23:30 AMWhat size is the defence force currently?
Is there any point spending a whole pile more for what will be the same result- if the US/Russia/Brits/France or whoever decided to invade tomorrow they'd blitz us, (South Armagh aside ;) )if we fired x amount of money at it, they'd still blitz us unless a friendly power decided to help us out..
There is a whole heap of things short of full invasion need defending against though. Russia *will* act the bollocks during the EU presidency and as we saw last week, we need to be able to react better.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 11, 2025, 12:01:02 PMCurrently, a hostile power like Russia doesn't need to land 100,000 troops on the beach in Wexford. They could bring Ireland to its knees with far less manpower and effort.
The remote cyber stuff is one aspect.
I'd suspect a few dozen personnel, unknown, unchecked and unhindered could neutralise Ireland's energy, communication, rail network, ports etc in short time.
We don't think it will happen, but we definitely have little means to prevent the possibility.
The countries in immediate danger from Russian attack are former Soviet states and countries in close proximity.
But, Putin and Russia generally has a big problem with prosperity and democracy to the west of them in Europe.
The more attractive an entity like the EU looks, the greater the pull away from Moscow.
Putin would have no problem taking advantage of Ireland's weak defence if it gave him an opportunity to destabilise Europe even further.
Being 'neutral' or canvassing that Russia and Ireland are good buddies and should remain so, is not a strong defence policy.
Not too many countries can defend themselves from nukes if Russia so decided, regardless the size of their army.
Quote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:53:15 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
I'm not 100% certain
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
So others are going to be 'doing it for us' anyway
But you're being very evasive on my question
What size does this army need to be?
Cos if you can't even tell me that much, it's hard to avoid the conclusion you're just another internet blowhard
So having the opinion that Ireland needs to beef up it's defence forces makes one a 'blowhard'. Lots of blowhards on here this morning it would seem.
You appear to exist in a binary world where there only exists peace and quiet or full scale invasion. All or nothing. The black and white worldview of a simpleton.
As pointed out already, there exists a world of possible scenarios in between those two.
As for what is required, the Irish Government has already commissioned what they think is necessary in their 2024 Defence Force Review.
As an aside, since you seem perfectly happy with the status quo, do you think that the Irish Defence forces should have the capability to intercept aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace?
Do you support the current set-up where the British RAF take on this role for the Irish?
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on December 11, 2025, 12:48:26 PMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on December 11, 2025, 12:01:02 PMCurrently, a hostile power like Russia doesn't need to land 100,000 troops on the beach in Wexford. They could bring Ireland to its knees with far less manpower and effort.
The remote cyber stuff is one aspect.
I'd suspect a few dozen personnel, unknown, unchecked and unhindered could neutralise Ireland's energy, communication, rail network, ports etc in short time.
We don't think it will happen, but we definitely have little means to prevent the possibility.
The countries in immediate danger from Russian attack are former Soviet states and countries in close proximity.
But, Putin and Russia generally has a big problem with prosperity and democracy to the west of them in Europe.
The more attractive an entity like the EU looks, the greater the pull away from Moscow.
Putin would have no problem taking advantage of Ireland's weak defence if it gave him an opportunity to destabilise Europe even further.
Being 'neutral' or canvassing that Russia and Ireland are good buddies and should remain so, is not a strong defence policy.
Not too many countries can defend themselves from nukes if Russia so decided, regardless the size of their army.
That's not a great argument for having no defence. What other country has opted to be defenceless on the basis that they could ultimately be nuked?
Russia could mess Ireland up in dozens of different ways and still pretend they had nothing to do with it.
Look at the distorted information age we live in now. There are plenty of people backing them as we speak.
The same would apply to anything they did to Ireland.
Russia have already in some ways taken over America with their little puppet in the white house and are in the process of doing the same to the Brits with Farage and his mates..
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 01:17:09 PMRussia have already in some ways taken over America with their little puppet in the white house and are in the process of doing the same to the Brits with Farage and his mates..
You are 100% correct and they have recently stated in their National Strategic Strategy that they are going to promote populist nationalistic governments in the EU.
They have also stated that they will specifically target Poland, Austria, Hungary and Italy with an aim to pull them from the orbit of the EU.
Edit: can you imagine what a shitshow it would be here in the north with Farage as PM.
Quote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:53:15 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
Ukraine has been invaded and is being supported by weapons from other countries.
The IRA got weapons from Libya and other countries.
We wouldn't be on our own.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on December 11, 2025, 12:48:26 PMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on December 11, 2025, 12:01:02 PMCurrently, a hostile power like Russia doesn't need to land 100,000 troops on the beach in Wexford. They could bring Ireland to its knees with far less manpower and effort.
The remote cyber stuff is one aspect.
I'd suspect a few dozen personnel, unknown, unchecked and unhindered could neutralise Ireland's energy, communication, rail network, ports etc in short time.
We don't think it will happen, but we definitely have little means to prevent the possibility.
The countries in immediate danger from Russian attack are former Soviet states and countries in close proximity.
But, Putin and Russia generally has a big problem with prosperity and democracy to the west of them in Europe.
The more attractive an entity like the EU looks, the greater the pull away from Moscow.
Putin would have no problem taking advantage of Ireland's weak defence if it gave him an opportunity to destabilise Europe even further.
Being 'neutral' or canvassing that Russia and Ireland are good buddies and should remain so, is not a strong defence policy.
Not too many countries can defend themselves from nukes if Russia so decided, regardless the size of their army.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/residents-of-co-tyrone-town-stunned-to-find-home-on-russian-nuclear-target-list/a1709550107.html
A senior Russian politician has warned that a Co Tyrone town is on a 'strike list' should war break out between Russia and European states.
Former Deputy Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin named 23 sites which would be attacked in the UK in the event of conflict.
All of the targeted areas are home to facilities which supply weapons and other military kit.
A senior Russian politician named 23 sites which would be attacked in the UK in the event of conflict.
Fivemiletown in Co. Tyrone is the HQ of Cooneen Defence, which says it is the "largest supplier of uniform to the UK Ministry of Defence and supplier to multiple other European Military."
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 01:28:06 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 01:17:09 PMRussia have already in some ways taken over America with their little puppet in the white house and are in the process of doing the same to the Brits with Farage and his mates..
You are 100% correct and they have recently stated in their National Strategic Strategy that they are going to promote populist nationalistic governments in the EU.
They have also stated that they will specifically target Poland, Austria, Hungary and Italy with an aim to pull them from the orbit of the EU.
Edit: can you imagine what a shitshow it would be here in the north with Farage as PM.
God knows what Farage would do. He's liable to cut all funding and push for a United Ireland.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 02:06:29 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 01:28:06 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 01:17:09 PMRussia have already in some ways taken over America with their little puppet in the white house and are in the process of doing the same to the Brits with Farage and his mates..
You are 100% correct and they have recently stated in their National Strategic Strategy that they are going to promote populist nationalistic governments in the EU.
They have also stated that they will specifically target Poland, Austria, Hungary and Italy with an aim to pull them from the orbit of the EU.
Edit: can you imagine what a shitshow it would be here in the north with Farage as PM.
God knows what Farage would do. He's liable to cut all funding and push for a United Ireland.
True or he could be a rah rah rah Unionist like his former buddy Ben Habib.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 02:18:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 02:06:29 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 01:28:06 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 11, 2025, 01:17:09 PMRussia have already in some ways taken over America with their little puppet in the white house and are in the process of doing the same to the Brits with Farage and his mates..
You are 100% correct and they have recently stated in their National Strategic Strategy that they are going to promote populist nationalistic governments in the EU.
They have also stated that they will specifically target Poland, Austria, Hungary and Italy with an aim to pull them from the orbit of the EU.
Edit: can you imagine what a shitshow it would be here in the north with Farage as PM.
God knows what Farage would do. He's liable to cut all funding and push for a United Ireland.
True or he could be a rah rah rah Unionist like his former buddy Ben Habib.
Suppose it depends what his backers want... the north off their bill would surely appeal.
He'll totally finish the NHS though which is one of the only arguments a lot of people make for staying in the UK
Our defence spending should be as part of a European wide coordinated defence strategy. Ireland has no chance on its own, as is the case with many of the other smaller countries in Europe, but Europe as one, would be a deterrent.
Quote from: seafoid on December 11, 2025, 01:33:33 PMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:53:15 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
Ukraine has been invaded and is being supported by weapons from other countries.
The IRA got weapons from Libya and other countries.
We wouldn't be on our own.
Ireland would need at the very least to be able to fend off an initial invasion, which would mean being able to secure airports and military airfields. And hope the cavalry arrives thereafter.
See the importance of this in Ukraine where the Russian paratroopers were wiped out at Hostomel airfield.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 02:39:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 11, 2025, 01:33:33 PMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:53:15 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
Ukraine has been invaded and is being supported by weapons from other countries.
The IRA got weapons from Libya and other countries.
We wouldn't be on our own.
Ireland would need at the very least to be able to fend off an initial invasion, which would mean being able to secure airports and military airfields. And hope the cavalry arrives thereafter.
See the importance of this in Ukraine where the Russian paratroopers were wiped out at Hostomel airfield.
;D ;D ;D
The actual state of Captain Mainwaring here
'Fend off an initial invasion'
Do me a favour ya balloon
The Chinese and Russian army are both over half the population of the entire country
If this country is ever the subject of a bona fide military invasion - you'd better hope the cavalry are here first
Otherwise, we might as well post you at the nearest beach head with a potato gun and a laptop
You might scunder them into turning back
Quote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 05:25:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 02:39:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 11, 2025, 01:33:33 PMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:53:15 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
Ukraine has been invaded and is being supported by weapons from other countries.
The IRA got weapons from Libya and other countries.
We wouldn't be on our own.
Ireland would need at the very least to be able to fend off an initial invasion, which would mean being able to secure airports and military airfields. And hope the cavalry arrives thereafter.
See the importance of this in Ukraine where the Russian paratroopers were wiped out at Hostomel airfield.
;D ;D ;D
The actual state of Captain Mainwaring here
'Fend off an initial invasion'
Do me a favour ya balloon
The Chinese and Russian army are both over half the population of the entire country
If this country is ever the subject of a bona fide military invasion - you'd better hope the cavalry are here first
Otherwise, we might as well post you at the nearest beach head with a potato gun and a laptop
You might scunder them into turning back
Taking a leaf out of HoG's book I see. The art of saying a lot while saying nothing at all.
Clinging to the one and only full scale invasion scenario. Good man.
I'll assume you're happy with the arrangement with the RAF until notified otherwise.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:49:05 PMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 05:25:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 02:39:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 11, 2025, 01:33:33 PMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:53:15 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 08:45:42 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 08:38:56 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2025, 05:46:20 AMQuote from: Franko on December 11, 2025, 03:31:37 AMSo let's talk specifics lads.
What size of a standing army are we going to need to fend off this Russian invasion?
How many planes?
How many ships?
How many tanks?
Here take a chill pill and have a go Franko, I've done the first part for you
I Franko, know for 100% certainty that Ireland will never be attacked or intimidated militarily by any other nation on this good earth, not now, or in the next 10-20-30 years.
I know this because:
p.s. it's amazing, no one has had a go at this yet. Maybe Franko will get the ball rolling.
It takes a certain level of intelligence to find this 'really amazing'.
Oh do tell us all why Ireland requires almost no army, no navy and no air force.
You're 100% certain we will never need them are you? Cos if you're not, and you still don't want to spend the money, then it means you still want to let others do it for us.
p.s. No one suggested Ireland had to tool up to take on Russia by itself. But you already knew that. Sorry for blowing away your wee straw man.
Firstly... straw man... lol - see bold and cringe please
But one thing I am certain of, is that if we ever get invaded by a hostile force, unless others get involved, we're going to be toast regardless. It's the way it has and always will be for a nation our size
Ukraine has been invaded and is being supported by weapons from other countries.
The IRA got weapons from Libya and other countries.
We wouldn't be on our own.
Ireland would need at the very least to be able to fend off an initial invasion, which would mean being able to secure airports and military airfields. And hope the cavalry arrives thereafter.
See the importance of this in Ukraine where the Russian paratroopers were wiped out at Hostomel airfield.
;D ;D ;D
The actual state of Captain Mainwaring here
'Fend off an initial invasion'
Do me a favour ya balloon
The Chinese and Russian army are both over half the population of the entire country
If this country is ever the subject of a bona fide military invasion - you'd better hope the cavalry are here first
Otherwise, we might as well post you at the nearest beach head with a potato gun and a laptop
You might scunder them into turning back
Taking a leaf out of HoG's book I see. The art of saying a lot while saying nothing at all.
Clinging to the one and only full scale invasion scenario. Good man.
I'll assume you're happy with the arrangement with the RAF until notified otherwise.
Your bedroom Bann
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aSMAAeSw2KBoJtCS/s-l1200.jpg)
Moon man
Please delete previous quotes from your quote PLEASE
Quote from: jb77 on December 11, 2025, 06:25:28 PMPlease delete previous quotes from your quote PLEASE
Can't, and no idea how that happened, what would you have done with that extra half second scrolling is the question though?
Not even worth thinking about all the things I could have done :-\
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/12/12/stephen-collins-if-russia-decides-to-attack-the-eu-irelands-wide-open-back-door-may-give-it-a-way-in/?
The Commission on the Defence Forces, which reported to the Government in 2022, identified three levels of ambition. The first, to leave things as they were, was rejected on the basis the country would be left "without a credible military capability to protect Ireland, its people and its resources for any sustained period".
Learn more
The second level of ambition was to address some of the current deficiencies through a significant strengthening of cyber defence and military intelligence, as well as revitalising the Army Reserve. The Government committed itself to meeting these goals by 2028, but they now seem far too modest given the escalating threat.
The third level of ambition put forward by the Commission included the development of a substantial mechanised component of the army. It also called for a balanced fleet of at least 12 naval ships, supported by appropriate technology, the acquisition of a squadron of combat aircraft, a joint cyber-defence command and an expansion of the Army Ranger wing to include dedicated combat helicopter assets.
The emphasis on turning the army into an effective fighting force is key. At present, the Army Rangers are the only component of the Defence Forces fully trained for combat, but they are just about 150 strong and need to be expanded as a first step.
Ibec, in its report, rightly argued that the Government should move immediately to these level-three ambitions.
Will this Russian invasion be taking place before or after the men in white coats have arrived for Banks of the Bann?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/11/nato-chief-prepare-for-war-with-russia/The West faces war with Russia on a scale not seen since the days of "our grandparents and great-grandparents", the head of Nato warned on Thursday.
Mark Rutte, the Nato secretary-general, said Vladimir Putin had chosen the alliance as his "next target", in some of his strongest warnings yet on the prospect of war spreading across Europe.
With Putins interview there, you'll not need an army so I wouldn't worry about arming it..
It'll be fast and deadly .. maybe that's the new reset that's needed
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2025, 12:19:44 PMWith Putins interview there, you'll not need an army so I wouldn't worry about arming it..
It'll be fast and deadly .. maybe that's the new reset that's needed
Fast and deadly? Like when Americans dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Quote from: Hand of God on December 12, 2025, 12:25:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2025, 12:19:44 PMWith Putins interview there, you'll not need an army so I wouldn't worry about arming it..
It'll be fast and deadly .. maybe that's the new reset that's needed
Fast and deadly? Like when Americans dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I hope so, would hate to be hanging around afterwards
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2025, 12:19:44 PMWith Putins interview there, you'll not need an army so I wouldn't worry about arming it..
It'll be fast and deadly .. maybe that's the new reset that's needed
Let me guess - let us do what we want or we will nuke you all?
Yeah that's the same sabre they've been rattling for quite a while now.
A nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/12/12/stephen-collins-if-russia-decides-to-attack-the-eu-irelands-wide-open-back-door-may-give-it-a-way-in/?The third level of ambition put forward by the Commission included the development of a substantial mechanised component of the army. It also called for a balanced fleet of at least 12 naval ships, supported by appropriate technology, the acquisition of a squadron of combat aircraft, a joint cyber-defence command and an expansion of the Army Ranger wing to include dedicated combat helicopter assets.
https://aerocorner.com/blog/how-many-planes-squadron/TLDR – Squadrons typically include between 12 and 24 aircraft, depending on the type of aircraft and the branch of the military. Land-based squadrons with heavy aircraft may have around 12 aircraft in a squadron. However, fighter units may have 18 to 24 aircraft.
Here's the link to the Commission on the Defence Forces with the number of ships and airplanes
https://www.military.ie/en/public-information/publications/report-of-the-commission-on-defence-forces/
Quote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
They've been doing what they want for a while and the Brits have done nowt, they'll never shoot one down..
The only fix is for Putin to 'go away' and he looks fit and well at present
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2025, 04:30:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
They've been doing what they want for a while and the Brits have done nowt, they'll never shoot one down..
The only fix is for Putin to 'go away' and he looks fit and well at present
No one expects them to be shot down.
Some people seem to think "neutral" means "completely unarmed." They're very different. Sweden was neutral for years and was armed to the teeth, even manufacturing its own jets.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Define intercepted?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 12, 2025, 05:06:49 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Define intercepted?
Do you seriously not know what it means?
Quote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
Why do we need to invest in any cybersecurity atall sure?
The Russians could nuke us, so let's not bother with intrusion detection, firewalls, encryption, failovers etc.
G none you lads must lived through the 80's
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 05:47:03 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 12, 2025, 05:06:49 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Define intercepted?
Do you seriously not know what it means?
I don't. But a big Russian bomber enters Irish airspace. We launch a Viggen. Then what?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 13, 2025, 08:23:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 05:47:03 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 12, 2025, 05:06:49 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Define intercepted?
Do you seriously not know what it means?
I don't. But a big Russian bomber enters Irish airspace. We launch a Viggen. Then what?
The Irish jets intercept them. Go and look it up. There's a good boy.
Are the Brits not our protectors as they are allowed to reccy round our coastline on sea and by air anyway.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 14, 2025, 01:29:23 PMAre the Brits not our protectors as they are allowed to reccy round our coastline on sea and by air anyway.
They are but the strange thing is none of the lads that don't want to spend have indicated whether or not they are happy with the staid quo.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 14, 2025, 01:29:23 PMAre the Brits not our protectors as they are allowed to reccy round our coastline on sea and by air anyway.
They can come and go as they please.
To get Ireland to arm itself or have a proper military just say its to repel the Brits.
The lads who secretly admire Russia and howl like Pavlov's Dog the mention of 'Brits' are still not convinced we need to lift a finger.
If someone suggested our defence is incapable of blocking Israeli interference they'd quickly change tack.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 13, 2025, 09:20:41 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 13, 2025, 08:23:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 05:47:03 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 12, 2025, 05:06:49 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Define intercepted?
Do you seriously not know what it means?
I don't. But a big Russian bomber enters Irish airspace. We launch a Viggen. Then what?
The Irish jets intercept them. Go and look it up. There's a good boy.
He repeats. Define intercept in this scenario,
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 14, 2025, 08:44:45 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 13, 2025, 09:20:41 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 13, 2025, 08:23:59 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 05:47:03 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 12, 2025, 05:06:49 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2025, 04:21:51 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2025, 03:52:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2025, 03:32:39 PMA nuclear attack by Russia is unlikely. Economic attack is more likely unless we have deterrence. There is no excuse with the budget surplus.
We should be investing in cyber security and if necessary for defence purposes.
But back to a question asked earlier, how many jets do we need?
Having three isn't worth my arse full of warm snow, we need at least 20 and a few nuclear warheads hidden in the bogs of Offaly and to come out of the ground like in thunderbirds.
Do you think that aircraft that switch off their transponders and enter Irish airspace should be intercepted?
Define intercepted?
Do you seriously not know what it means?
I don't. But a big Russian bomber enters Irish airspace. We launch a Viggen. Then what?
The Irish jets intercept them. Go and look it up. There's a good boy.
He repeats. Define intercept in this scenario,
Can "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
https://www.ft.com/content/5cbedc56-b29a-4284-901b-aef5f6853135
Britain's new head of MI6 will accuse Russia of exporting "chaos" and warn that the threat posed by Moscow will persist until Vladimir Putin is "forced to change his calculus", in her first public remarks since taking office.
Blaise Metreweli, who took the top job at the spy agency in June, will on Monday use a speech at MI6 headquarters to call Russia an "aggressive, expansionist and revisionist" adversary, just as the US is pressuring Ukraine to sign a peace deal seen as favourable to Putin.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
There is no need for me to define 'intercept'. You and I and anyone else reading this knows what it means. Why you pretend otherwise, only you know.
If you think that it's not a good idea for Russian bombers to know that they will be met by fighter jets when they enter the airspace of another country then do say so.
Are you happy to continue outsourcing this service to the British or can it be cancelled altogether?
Also, which arms companies are targeting Ireland with doomsday scenarios? Since it's 'clearly' happening can you let us all know?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:47:05 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
There is no need for me to define 'intercept'. You and I and anyone else reading this knows what it means. Why you pretend otherwise, only you know.
If you think that it's not a good idea for Russian bombers to know that they will be met by fighter jets when they enter the airspace of another country then do say so.
Are you happy to continue outsourcing this service to the British or can it be cancelled altogether?
Also, which arms companies are targeting Ireland with doomsday scenarios? Since it's 'clearly' happening can you let us all know?
Will you get real.
You want us to buy fighter jets, which I am not opposed to, but refuse to say why.
I would prefer not to 'outsource it', but if we could really tighten up on priorities in the short term I would long finger it. It's not the most important gap to plug. We need anti drone weapons and a beefed up cyber defence first.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:57:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:47:05 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
There is no need for me to define 'intercept'. You and I and anyone else reading this knows what it means. Why you pretend otherwise, only you know.
If you think that it's not a good idea for Russian bombers to know that they will be met by fighter jets when they enter the airspace of another country then do say so.
Are you happy to continue outsourcing this service to the British or can it be cancelled altogether?
Also, which arms companies are targeting Ireland with doomsday scenarios? Since it's 'clearly' happening can you let us all know?
Will you get real.
You want us to buy fighter jets, which I am not opposed to, but refuse to say why.
I would prefer not to 'outsource it', but if we could really tighten up on priorities in the short term I would long finger it. It's not the most important gap to plug. We need anti drone weapons and a beefed up cyber defence first.
You appear to have gone from -
A - having fighter jets is a bit pointless and arms companies that sell them are targeting us with doomsday scenarios.
to
B - we need to prioritise other things first as the British can cover us in the air for the time being but it's better to be able to do this ourselves.
Am I reading this correctly?
Position B is reasonable and a perfectly valid point of view. I just don't know how you started at A and got to B.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 03:11:08 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:57:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:47:05 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
There is no need for me to define 'intercept'. You and I and anyone else reading this knows what it means. Why you pretend otherwise, only you know.
If you think that it's not a good idea for Russian bombers to know that they will be met by fighter jets when they enter the airspace of another country then do say so.
Are you happy to continue outsourcing this service to the British or can it be cancelled altogether?
Also, which arms companies are targeting Ireland with doomsday scenarios? Since it's 'clearly' happening can you let us all know?
Will you get real.
You want us to buy fighter jets, which I am not opposed to, but refuse to say why.
I would prefer not to 'outsource it', but if we could really tighten up on priorities in the short term I would long finger it. It's not the most important gap to plug. We need anti drone weapons and a beefed up cyber defence first.
You appear to have gone from -
A - having fighter jets is a bit pointless and arms companies that sell them are targeting us with doomsday scenarios.
to
B - we need to prioritise other things first as the British can cover us in the air for the time being but it's better to be able to do this ourselves.
Am I reading this correctly?
Position B is reasonable and a perfectly valid point of view. I just don't know how you started at A and got to B.
I never said it was pointless. I (pointlessly) asked you why you think they are needed. What does 'intercept' actually mean? If we aren't going to shoot one down, and we aren't,is a fighter jet needed to simply note? Again, we should have some, but your scenario is fuzzy.
I am perfectly happy to believe we have allowed the Department of Finance to crush defence spending (ARW not given agreed pay rises, Paschal nixed low interst EU loans the Dept of Defence wanted to draw down and so on) to the point where they have created a crisis that needs emergency remidation and that there is a clear jostling to get us to buy extravagent kit from x and y that should be ignored.
B is a fair summation of my position.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
The budget will be bigger than 500m.
https://www.military.ie/en/public-information/publications/report-of-the-commission-on-defence-forces/
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2025, 03:52:38 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
The budget will be bigger than 500m.
https://www.military.ie/en/public-information/publications/report-of-the-commission-on-defence-forces/
I know. That's why I said it.
https://www.military.ie/en/public-information/publications/report-of-the-commission-on-defence-forces/report-of-the-commission-on-defence-forces.pdf
Defence Funding
Compared to our peers in western and northern Europe, it is very clear that Ireland is an
outlier in relation to defence funding. The scale of additional funding that is required for each
level of ambition has been illustrated on a single year basis by comparing the 2020 gross
outturn (representing LOA 1) against an approximation for LOA 2 and LOA 3. Based on the
Commission's own estimate of the cost of a step up to LOA 2, an annual increase of some
50%, bringing the funding up to approximately €1,500m4 per year, would be required. For a
further step up to LOA 3, which is based on the 2020 average GDP % of comparator countries
applied to Ireland's estimated 2020 GNI*, the Commission estimates that an annual budget
of almost €3,000m would be required.
The Commission acknowledges the great challenge faced in managing the public finances in
the wake of the financial crash and more recently the impact of the Covid‐19 pandemic. It
recognises that budgetary policy must be framed within a prudent macro‐economic
framework and in the light of many competing demands.
As has previously been acknowledged by Government in its White Paper and White Paper
Update, demands on defence capability are becoming more sophisticated and dynamic while
4This is an estimation based on indicative figures provided by the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces for the
purposes of calculating the approximate cost of a step up to LOA 2.
xii
present funding levels only allow for major equipment platforms and infrastructure to be
upgraded very sequentially, or over extended periods of acquisition. This implies a very low
level of ambition and the scale of the gap is clearly illustrated by the financial data in this
report. It is clear to the Commission that the current level of financial commitment (LOA 1)
delivers military capabilities which are inadequate for the Defence of Ireland and its people
from the threats identified in this report and staying at this level will also severely constrain
the capacity of the Defence Forces to maintain its overseas commitments and deliver required
levels of ATCP and ATCA supports. Providing a credible defence, on a par with comparator
countries, would require a Government policy decision to move to LOA 3 with the appropriate
budget. A Government decision to move to LOA 2 would address priority gaps in our current
capabilities to defend Ireland's sovereign interests, serve on high intensity missions abroad
and contribute to national resilience and security. However, it would not deliver the capability
required to develop full spectrum defence capabilities on a par with other sovereign European
countries. The Commission recommends that consideration be given to a step up to LOA 2, as
described in this report, in the short term pending the more detailed policy debate and
decision required for higher levels of ambition.
The disgusting older generation who fked everything are luckily too old tp fight.
https://news.sky.com/story/uks-sons-and-daughters-need-to-be-ready-to-fight-amid-growing-russian-threat-says-head-of-armed-forces-13483860?utm_social_post_id=623874556&dcmp=snt-sf-twitter&utm_social_handle_id=7587032
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 03:41:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 03:11:08 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:57:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:47:05 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:35:37 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2025, 02:27:23 PMQuote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 15, 2025, 02:22:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2025, 09:00:37 PMCan "He" just get to the punchline. Good lad. Can't wait.
There is no punchline.
We buy new fighter jets.
A Rusdian bomber flies in or near Irish airspace.
We launch said fighter jets.
Then what?
The Irish fighter jets intercept the Russian bomber.
If you think there is no need, do you advocate the Irish government informing the RAF that they no longer require their services?
That undefined intercept word again.
I'm saying if the sole purpose of a €500m fighter plane purchase plus maintenance is simply to fly beside a Russian bomber and go 'yep, that's a Russian bomber', is this worth the spend? Primary radar does that. Which we have bought.
As it happens I think we do need to spend a lot more, but we are clearly being targeted by arms companies with their doomsday scenarios. So do we spend that €500m on fighter jets or on cyber? Or on the Navy to protect against drones, drug smugglers and protect cables? Double the ARW, or create a tier 2 special forces?
Floor is yours, why spend almost half of the increased budget on fighters?
There is no need for me to define 'intercept'. You and I and anyone else reading this knows what it means. Why you pretend otherwise, only you know.
If you think that it's not a good idea for Russian bombers to know that they will be met by fighter jets when they enter the airspace of another country then do say so.
Are you happy to continue outsourcing this service to the British or can it be cancelled altogether?
Also, which arms companies are targeting Ireland with doomsday scenarios? Since it's 'clearly' happening can you let us all know?
Will you get real.
You want us to buy fighter jets, which I am not opposed to, but refuse to say why.
I would prefer not to 'outsource it', but if we could really tighten up on priorities in the short term I would long finger it. It's not the most important gap to plug. We need anti drone weapons and a beefed up cyber defence first.
You appear to have gone from -
A - having fighter jets is a bit pointless and arms companies that sell them are targeting us with doomsday scenarios.
to
B - we need to prioritise other things first as the British can cover us in the air for the time being but it's better to be able to do this ourselves.
Am I reading this correctly?
Position B is reasonable and a perfectly valid point of view. I just don't know how you started at A and got to B.
I never said it was pointless. I (pointlessly) asked you why you think they are needed. What does 'intercept' actually mean? If we aren't going to shoot one down, and we aren't,is a fighter jet needed to simply note? Again, we should have some, but your scenario is fuzzy.
I am perfectly happy to believe we have allowed the Department of Finance to crush defence spending (ARW not given agreed pay rises, Paschal nixed low interst EU loans the Dept of Defence wanted to draw down and so on) to the point where they have created a crisis that needs emergency remidation and that there is a clear jostling to get us to buy extravagent kit from x and y that should be ignored.
B is a fair summation of my position.
Unidentified aircraft that enter national airspace need to be 'intercepted', i.e. approached by military aircraft and identified. If they are civilian airliners in trouble, they may need escort to an airfield. There may be other scenarios, e.g. potential hijack etc, in which case a plane may need to be shot down (unlikely thankfully).
If the plane is a foreign military aircraft, they need escorted out. There are recognised procedures for doing this. Usually the aircraft are just probing reaction and making a nuisance of themselves to escalate tensions.
The point is, there MUST be fighter jets capable of doing this over national airspace. You can't have unprotected airspace.
You've said you're happy with the Brits doing it for now and spending the money elsewhere first. That's fine. I have no issue with that.
Quote from: DaleCooper on December 15, 2025, 09:12:26 PMThe disgusting older generation who fked everything are luckily too old tp fight.
https://news.sky.com/story/uks-sons-and-daughters-need-to-be-ready-to-fight-amid-growing-russian-threat-says-head-of-armed-forces-13483860?utm_social_post_id=623874556&dcmp=snt-sf-twitter&utm_social_handle_id=7587032
What have the 'disgusting' older generation in the UK done exactly and how have they 'fked everyting'?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 16, 2025, 10:00:53 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on December 15, 2025, 09:12:26 PMThe disgusting older generation who fked everything are luckily too old tp fight.
https://news.sky.com/story/uks-sons-and-daughters-need-to-be-ready-to-fight-amid-growing-russian-threat-says-head-of-armed-forces-13483860?utm_social_post_id=623874556&dcmp=snt-sf-twitter&utm_social_handle_id=7587032
What have the 'disgusting' older generation in the UK done exactly and how have they 'fked everyting'?
Brexit for one, 14 years of Tory cuts for 2.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2025, 10:11:46 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 16, 2025, 10:00:53 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on December 15, 2025, 09:12:26 PMThe disgusting older generation who fked everything are luckily too old tp fight.
https://news.sky.com/story/uks-sons-and-daughters-need-to-be-ready-to-fight-amid-growing-russian-threat-says-head-of-armed-forces-13483860?utm_social_post_id=623874556&dcmp=snt-sf-twitter&utm_social_handle_id=7587032
What have the 'disgusting' older generation in the UK done exactly and how have they 'fked everyting'?
Brexit for one, 14 years of Tory cuts for 2.
With reference to the article posted.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 16, 2025, 10:22:59 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2025, 10:11:46 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 16, 2025, 10:00:53 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on December 15, 2025, 09:12:26 PMThe disgusting older generation who fked everything are luckily too old tp fight.
https://news.sky.com/story/uks-sons-and-daughters-need-to-be-ready-to-fight-amid-growing-russian-threat-says-head-of-armed-forces-13483860?utm_social_post_id=623874556&dcmp=snt-sf-twitter&utm_social_handle_id=7587032
What have the 'disgusting' older generation in the UK done exactly and how have they 'fked everyting'?
Brexit for one, 14 years of Tory cuts for 2.
With reference to the article posted.
Well Putin would be in that older generation :D.
He definitely fucked everything!
https://www.ft.com/content/5cbedc56-b29a-4284-901b-aef5f6853135
Her remarks follow a series of sabotage incidents in the UK and across Europe that have been attributed to Russia or Russia-linked actors, including a fire at a London warehouse last year and a railway line explosion last month in Poland. Airports have also been disrupted by drones.
Last week, the UK's foreign secretary Yvette Cooper warned that Russia was running "vast malign online networks" as part of a strategy of "information warfare".
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/12/16/ireland-to-buy-500m-military-radar-system-from-france/
A new radar, maybe the French can sell a few Rafales to datalink with as well
Forget Bitcoin. Invest any spare money you have in Thales and Dassault shares. That's the way it's heading.
Quote from: jb77 on December 17, 2025, 11:26:37 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/12/16/ireland-to-buy-500m-military-radar-system-from-france/
A new radar, maybe the French can sell a few Rafales to datalink with as well
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/12/16/ireland-to-buy-500m-military-radar-system-from-france/The military radar programme comprises three parts. There will be a long range, land-based radar, a ship-borne maritime radar and ground-based air defence systems, which will include counter-drone technology.
These systems will combine to provide a "recognised air picture", enabling the military to see all aircraft over the State, including those with their transponders switched off.
The Government said the project will be completed by the end of 2028, with some counter-drone capabilities being acquired before Ireland takes up the EU presidency in July 2026.
Funding for the project will come from the €1.7 billion National Development Plan for the Defence Forces which was published last week.
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2025/12/18/hybrid-threats-expected-to-increase-during-irelands-eu-presidency-department-warns/
Hybrid threats are expected to increase in Europe over the coming years, including during Ireland's EU presidency, Department of Defence officials have warned.
In briefing materials prepared for newly appointed Minister for Defence Helen McEntee last month, officials noted Europe's security and defence will likely be the "dominant context" of the Irish presidency during the second half of 2026.
They warned that the trend of hybrid activity, described as "systemic, coercive behaviour directed by a state actor and designed to damage a target", is expected to "increase over the coming years, including during our presidency".
While hybrid activity can take place across "all possible domains", officials said it includes "systemic foreign interference in the information space", including in the context of elections.
According to the document provided under the Freedom of Information Act, portions of which are heavily redacted, it also includes sabotage, instrumentalisation of migration, cyber activity, attacks against critical infrastructure, and radio frequency interference.
[ Spike in Russian shadow fleet activities during Zelenskiy visitOpens in new window ]
"The trend of increasing hybrid activity is expected to continue and could escalate in the event of a ceasefire and Russian reliance on a war economy model," the document reads.
As part of ongoing preparations for Ireland's EU presidency, officials noted that some €19 million will be spent to acquire counter unmanned aerial systems, or anti-drone technology
I hope whoever bought the E-voting machines is not involved in the procurement process.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2026/01/03/ireland-to-deploy-large-numbers-of-undersea-trackers-to-detect-hostile-submarines/
Plans are under way to drop dozens of devices from military aircraft into the waters off the coast of Ireland to help detect Russian submarines.
The project forms part of Government efforts in increase the State's "maritime domain awareness" in response to increasing concerns about the vulnerability of subsea infrastructure, such as communications cables and energy connectors, to attack or sabotage.
Earlier this year, the Government announced a contract with the French company Thales to provide a sonar capacity for the Irish Naval Service by 2027. This €50 million investment will, for the first time, allow Irish ships to detect underwater activity at long distances by towing a sonar device while on patrol.
The next stage of the plan involves acquiring a large number of devices called sonobuoys. These are torpedo-shaped objects, about a metre long, which float on the water and use sonar to detect movement under the waves.