See Ryan is coming out with some bold plan/predictions about solar energy in the news again.
Just wondering what people's experiences with solar panels are on here or alternative power sources. What's the grants available and realistic costs? Can you actually sell electricity back to grid?
Where can we go with this in future and what are the limits to what you can install?
E.g say a small farmer with slatted shed's close to house, assuming costs weren't an issue, what's to stop him covering the outhouse sheds' roofs with solar panels and the dwelling house and garage too and putting up a few small wind turbines. Obviously wind turbines might be more costly and planning more tricky but could he realistically recover costs and possibly make money on the panels over 10yr period?
Don't know the story with Ireland, but as a general point I think the world needs to embrace nuclear also. Renewable energy is part of the solution, but it's not going to meet post-fossil fuel needs on its own.
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
I dont believe there is a decent ROI on doing all you say above. Capital costs very high and probably 10 year payback for most people and thats not including maintenance and end of life for components. Of course allowing people to sell back to the grid and paying them a decent amount would change the outlook significantly
Quote from: Itchy on February 16, 2023, 04:45:31 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
I dont believe there is a decent ROI on doing all you say above. Capital costs very high and probably 10 year payback for most people and thats not including maintenance and end of life for components. Of course allowing people to sell back to the grid and paying them a decent amount would change the outlook significantly
I doubt it's simple but wondering has anyone hard figures from experience. Had someone telling me the other day, just hearsay, they "know" someone in Cavan town got solar panels in a few months ago and hadn't an electricity bill of note since. Sounds like BS. But is the grid taking back any in credit form, and is there a difference if you're in town and close to a power base or out the sticks and far away.
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
We were thinking at one point of getting solar panels installed on our (flat) roofed home in NYC, but just around then Trump got in and the federally-supported funding for grants disappeared. Will be redoing our roof in the new few years, so might revisit it then to see what options are out there.
My in-laws out west have an off-grid weekend cabin in the mountains. They have a small solar panel array (about 20-25 square feet) which covers lighting, fridge, tv, water heater and a bit of phone charging or microwave use. They switch it off at night to conserve the battery charge. Small petrol generator (maybe 3000 W) for emergency back up.
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 05:03:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 16, 2023, 04:45:31 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
I dont believe there is a decent ROI on doing all you say above. Capital costs very high and probably 10 year payback for most people and thats not including maintenance and end of life for components. Of course allowing people to sell back to the grid and paying them a decent amount would change the outlook significantly
I doubt it's simple but wondering has anyone hard figures from experience. Had someone telling me the other day, just hearsay, they "know" someone in Cavan town got solar panels in a few months ago and hadn't an electricity bill of note since. Sounds like BS. But is the grid taking back any in credit form, and is there a difference if you're in town and close to a power base or out the sticks and far away.
I wouldn't say that's necessarily BS, but while it sounds great how much was the initial capital spend on solar panels is the question.
Quote from: Itchy on February 16, 2023, 11:42:21 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 05:03:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 16, 2023, 04:45:31 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
I dont believe there is a decent ROI on doing all you say above. Capital costs very high and probably 10 year payback for most people and thats not including maintenance and end of life for components. Of course allowing people to sell back to the grid and paying them a decent amount would change the outlook significantly
I doubt it's simple but wondering has anyone hard figures from experience. Had someone telling me the other day, just hearsay, they "know" someone in Cavan town got solar panels in a few months ago and hadn't an electricity bill of note since. Sounds like BS. But is the grid taking back any in credit form, and is there a difference if you're in town and close to a power base or out the sticks and far away.
I wouldn't say that's necessarily BS, but while it sounds great how much was the initial capital spend on solar panels is the question.
Initial cost would be a show stopper for most but, assuming cost not an issue, I was more interested in what are the other restrictions for someone to do this and was there a difference between rural and urban grid connection for selling back.
Hard to get specific information online, there's a world of websites come up when you google and they mostly just look to give you a general quote. But it does look like the story I was told may not have been BS.
From what I can gather you just need a smart meter and a registered micro generation device to sell back to grid. Doesn't look to be any restrictions on the number of panels you can install but a 30 degree mounting angle and south facing will give best efficiency. Regarding wind, you don't need planning to mount a micro turbine for first installation as long as there's no existing air source heat pumps at the property. Further additions of either looks like permission is required.
But the costs look prohibitive. Wonder how much cheaper it would be to get everything from China direct. Also, how accurate are the specs they give you as opposed to the reality of what these components can actually produce energy wise. And how much loss there is in the cable runs.
Surely if you install them in this country you would be using all of the energy you generate and not want to sell it back to the grid?
Selling it back to the grid means you will be paid x while when you use it then the cost could be x15?
Quote from: Taylor on February 17, 2023, 02:08:56 PM
Surely if you install them in this country you would be using all of the energy you generate and not want to sell it back to the grid?
Selling it back to the grid means you will be paid x while when you use it then the cost could be x15?
There is a timing problem though. In June you might generate quite a bit and have no use for it, in December you would not generate enough for your needs. You'd need a serious battery to smooth that out.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2023, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 17, 2023, 02:08:56 PM
Surely if you install them in this country you would be using all of the energy you generate and not want to sell it back to the grid?
Selling it back to the grid means you will be paid x while when you use it then the cost could be x15?
There is a timing problem though. In June you might generate quite a bit and have no use for it, in December you would not generate enough for your needs. You'd need a serious battery to smooth that out.
That's very true and battery storage options look extremely expensive too but guess it would be great to have that option for power cuts etc
Very hard to get a take on individual component costs too as everything seems to come as a complete package, but my logic, if the panels themselves are relatively cheap, and a good majority of the cost is the invertor, battery, and home/grid interface, assuming installation space/planning was not a problem, would it not be better to install as many extra panels as possible if they themselves are relatively cheap. That way you could have excess for the grid for a good portion of the year.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2023, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 17, 2023, 02:08:56 PM
Surely if you install them in this country you would be using all of the energy you generate and not want to sell it back to the grid?
Selling it back to the grid means you will be paid x while when you use it then the cost could be x15?
There is a timing problem though. In June you might generate quite a bit and have no use for it, in December you would not generate enough for your needs. You'd need a serious battery to smooth that out.
The battery is the key.
I dont see the point in selling anything back to the grid for say 1p and buying back in the winter months for 30p.
Once there are batteries that hold everything your reap then it becomes viable - otherwise I dont see the point (Im far from an expert on it but that is the major stumbling point IMO)
Quote from: Taylor on February 17, 2023, 03:14:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2023, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 17, 2023, 02:08:56 PM
Surely if you install them in this country you would be using all of the energy you generate and not want to sell it back to the grid?
Selling it back to the grid means you will be paid x while when you use it then the cost could be x15?
There is a timing problem though. In June you might generate quite a bit and have no use for it, in December you would not generate enough for your needs. You'd need a serious battery to smooth that out.
The battery is the key.
I dont see the point in selling anything back to the grid for say 1p and buying back in the winter months for 30p.
Once there are batteries that hold everything your reap then it becomes viable - otherwise I dont see the point (Im far from an expert on it but that is the major stumbling point IMO)
https://www.purevolt.ie/domestic-solar/feed-in-tariffs.php
Found that website. Looks like they'll pay roughly what they charge night rate or half the day rate. If your house is empty during the day it might not make sense to pay too much on a battery installation when you can sell it for roughly the same price as you're buying it for at your peak usage times.
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
Did some preliminary investigations into solar, looked like it would cost circa 8k net of grants, calculated payback (based on current unit prices) at under 5 years. That included a small battery. I'm due a physical inspection at some point as I think my roof might have a few issues!
Biggest drawback is that most energy produced during the months it is least needed and vice versa. That said the calculations showed that only one 2 month period would see me in a position to sell back to grid and even then it wouldn't be much.
I don't have a heat pump system which would probably make it a better option and it looks like electricity prices will drop significantly which will change the payback calculation too, still, the panels are good for 20 yrs apparently.
It's a serious option for me, but I haven't committed just yet.
A Green Councillor tweeted recently about a new system being installed. Then ignored genuine questions on cost.
When he did engage his angle was that it's not the point. It needs to be done, etc
No sense of reality. If they are serious they need to be seriously helping people with up front costs. Like I'm talking massive grants.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 18, 2023, 09:52:39 AM
A Green Councillor tweeted recently about a new system being installed. Then ignored genuine questions on cost.
When he did engage his angle was that it's not the point. It needs to be done, etc
No sense of reality. If they are serious they need to be seriously helping people with up front costs. Like I'm talking massive grants.
These people pay €6 for a Latté. They have no notion of the cost of things.
Quote from: onefineday on February 18, 2023, 08:29:11 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
Understood J70 but big scale is something different. We'll never see ordinary Joe's with a small nuclear reactor in the back garden.
I was more interested in how ordinary people can get in on the act in a small way and cover a bulk of their owns needs. And if anyone on here has much experience with what's out there, how they got on financially or where they see it going. What's it like in the states where you are? Everyone on grid or people trying to get into producing their own?
Did some preliminary investigations into solar, looked like it would cost circa 8k net of grants, calculated payback (based on current unit prices) at under 5 years. That included a small battery. I'm due a physical inspection at some point as I think my roof might have a few issues!
Biggest drawback is that most energy produced during the months it is least needed and vice versa. That said the calculations showed that only one 2 month period would see me in a position to sell back to grid and even then it wouldn't be much.
I don't have a heat pump system which would probably make it a better option and it looks like electricity prices will drop significantly which will change the payback calculation too, still, the panels are good for 20 yrs apparently.
It's a serious option for me, but I haven't committed just yet.
From my looking around the returns are modest enough but if you can afford the install, it's probably good in the long run.
General cost of installation (5.6KW) looks about 9k give or take. There's a limit to inverter size, max is rated 6KW, so in theory this would support 15 x 400W panels but in reality I think you can install up to 22 (they don't recommend going over 9KW theoretical input for this inverter). For Ireland they seem to average the yearly generated power 850 times the hourly rating, so a 6KW-9KW system would produce 5100-7650 units per year.
It's DC output from panels, they usually install in two strings to inverter, East/West or North/South. Apparently though, a dodgy panel (faulty/shaded/dirty) can drag down other panels in string. There's also the option to install mini inverters on panels and send AC direct from panels. This is apparently more efficient and you can monitor performance of individual panels better. 400W panel cost about 200 euro, mini inverter about 120 euro. 1 panel per year should produce 340 units of electricity.
Batteries are a big cost and capacity very modest. 1300 euro for one with storage for 3 usable units, 2 grand for next one up with storage for 5 usable units. So a daily optimising or black out fail safe solution at best. Solartricity.ie seems a good company, they do a Q&A online, will quote and recommend fitters, or you can just pick up a DIY kit or individual components.
Wind turbines are another option but very little info seems to be out there on how they actually work out. A 5KW turbine looks to work out a bit cheaper than solar rated equivalent plus you'd imagine wind blows a lot more year round and at night but looks like that hourly rating is for 40km/hr wind and once wind drops the o/p from the turbine drops exponentially. You can also have too much wind plus there's the noise issue and possibly a lot more maintenance works. But still, you'd imagine it should produce much more units of electricity over the course of a year.
Join the Irish PV & battery systems owners group on Facebook. Very informative.