Have the GAA shot themselves in the foot with news that all armagh players have won their appeals?
I am guessing the refs are going to feel undermined as their decisions are now being over ruled.
One match bans are now meaning less it seems as there is a high chance it will be over turned.
Surely every team will now appeal every major decisions as its clear you most likely will get off.
So much for the GAA setting their stall out in regards to meeles etc at the start of the year.
I like a process in where u appeal and fail, ban doubled, am not sure if this previously done in American fball or Rugby.
The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.
Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.
There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).
Quote from: LCohen on April 19, 2022, 10:27:21 PM
The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.
Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.
There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).
What makes you say they are cracking down on punches, headlocks etc. None of the 3 Armagh players were cited for this. None of them were involved in any of this. The height of the complaint against them was that they contributed to a melee. This whole process was a farce from start to finish.
Yeah, whole thing needs looked at. It's crazy this past while especially.
Players/counties appeal and they appeal again etc.
Too many chances to appeal. They should get only one.
This must be driving referee mad - why send lads off, there's a good chance they'll get off by appeal.
Whole process at inter-county needs looked at.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 19, 2022, 10:25:25 PM
I like a process in where u appeal and fail, ban doubled, am not sure if this previously done in American fball or Rugby.
very true there has to be a potential cost else why not appeal.
how long before some one sues saying the overturned decision change the outcome and demand a replay , some thing similar to how Galway cheated Mayo out of the 1925 All Ireland
I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.
Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".
f**k that.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 09:05:28 AM
I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.
Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".
f**k that.
Few things.
1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.
2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.
3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 09:21:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 09:05:28 AM
I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.
Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".
f**k that.
Few things.
1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.
2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.
3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.
Have to agree. What constitutes "contributing to a melee" is too ambiguous. Is it only physical or are verbal contributions included? Is someone trying to split up a melee contributing? Is being within 2m of a melee contributing?
Quote from: general_lee on April 20, 2022, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 09:21:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 09:05:28 AM
I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.
Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".
f**k that.
Few things.
1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.
2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.
3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.
Have to agree. What constitutes "contributing to a melee" is too ambiguous. Is it only physical or are verbal contributions included? Is someone trying to split up a melee contributing? Is being within 2m of a melee contributing?
But where does this end? We'll need rules for everything to do with every action a player does?
Btw, I thought there was a rule that 3rd man in etc. gets a red card. Is this still in action?
Would this not stop a melee if enforced?
Honestly David while you're clearly trying to be level headed about this, you're barking up the wrong tree looking for clear definitions for everything that may constitute foul play.
No sporting association in the world attempts to defines a melee in law. They instead, like GAA, have a catch-all disrepute charge, that can be employed as needed.
The biggest problem with GAA disciplinary process is NOT the rule book as you suggest: that's a complete cop out. The problem is cultural. Short of putting a man in hospital, players and their entire support, expect red cards to be overturned. It's absolutely f**king ludicrous. It needs to change.
Am on for a independent review of games by a committee during the week after game, review ref report but also review Any TV footage. Any player doing wrong, get banned etc, 1 appeal, if it goes against them, ban doubled. No 2nd appeal etc. How come these Counties are not fined for bringing the game into a bad light. Rory O'Connell started all this crap when he got a injunction to play in a game he was rightly suspended for. Punching should be at least a 2 match ban. Kicking the same if not more. Too many dangerous head high tackles are only getting yellow cards where a number are beyond the yellow card level. Again very poor directive to refs. Any sub incursion 6 months, Backroom Staff the same
Honestly not a surprise. Said it before and say if again but GAA disciplinary structure is a shambles. It's a combination of been poorly worded/defined and old school wink & a nudge people sitting on them be it at county and provincial level.
I've been in the room and you can tell straight away what's happening. I feel for refs who are trying to do their job.
The GAA structure to keep with the modern game now. They can't seem to get even the basics right - fixtures, suspensions, expenses agreed and move on. All the whole the championship starts and no one barely notices. You'd hope that will change this weekend.
I remember Tommy Carr getting 6 months for kicking Brian Murray, nowadays supporters do that much crying, and management appeals that the same offence be lucky to get a 2 game ban.
End of the day, procedure or not, Rian O'Neill should been suspended, as to the Donegal sub Goalkeeper also.How after all these years men cannot be suspended on video evidence is ridiculous.
The whole GAA disciplinary system is broken. One of the main issues is the hap hazard consistency in which rules are applied. The same rules seem to be applied to different counties at the same time for the same offences even within the one incident. Ridiculous and what actually needs to happen is a red out right at the very very top of the organisation. Too many on the gravy train. Clear out and start again with PAID administrators who will be accountable and who have the best interest of the GAA at heart. Not these self serving officials.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 20, 2022, 10:28:40 AM
End of the day, procedure or not, Rian O'Neill should been suspended, as to the Donegal Goalkeeper also.How after all these years men cannot be suspended on video evidence is ridiculous.
We will agree to disagree on that one.
Quote from: marty34 on April 20, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on April 20, 2022, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 09:21:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 09:05:28 AM
I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.
Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".
f**k that.
Few things.
1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.
2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.
3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.
Have to agree. What constitutes "contributing to a melee" is too ambiguous. Is it only physical or are verbal contributions included? Is someone trying to split up a melee contributing? Is being within 2m of a melee contributing?
But where does this end? We'll need rules for everything to do with every action a player does?
Btw, I thought there was a rule that 3rd man in etc. gets a red card. Is this still in action?
Would this not stop a melee if enforced?
As far as I am aware there's no such rule. You don't need everything defined to the nth degree you simply need to avoid wildly undefined offences. Plenty of sports are able to do it very successfully. There seems however to be a complete refusal to do it in the GAA.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 10:08:44 AM
Honestly David while you're clearly trying to be level headed about this, you're barking up the wrong tree looking for clear definitions for everything that may constitute foul play.
No sporting association in the world attempts to defines a melee in law. They instead, like GAA, have a catch-all disrepute charge, that can be employed as needed.
The biggest problem with GAA disciplinary process is NOT the rule book as you suggest: that's a complete cop out. The problem is cultural. Short of putting a man in hospital, players and their entire support, expect red cards to be overturned. It's absolutely f**king ludicrous. It needs to change.
Few things again.
1. You don't need to define everything you simply need to avoid hideously I'll defined things. Such as contributing to a melee. For fairness to exist an individual needs to know that what they are doing is an offence. A better way to think of it may be if you ask. How did he contribute to the melee? If your answer is by contributing to a melee that's not sufficiently certain enough to constitute an offence.
2. Contrary to your assertion a number of sports define a melee, ice hockey, rugby league and bizarrely International Rules for example. Others don't but then they also don't have a specific penalty for contributing to a melee.
3. On your final point I think one leads to the other. Players will not and should not be expected to sit back and take a penalty they perceive to be an injustice. You start with a proper robust rule book that ensures fairness I think you start to see far less appeals. If there are far less appeals then that improves faith in the rule book etc etc
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 20, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on April 20, 2022, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 09:21:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 09:05:28 AM
I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.
Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".
f**k that.
Few things.
1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.
2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.
3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.
Have to agree. What constitutes "contributing to a melee" is too ambiguous. Is it only physical or are verbal contributions included? Is someone trying to split up a melee contributing? Is being within 2m of a melee contributing?
But where does this end? We'll need rules for everything to do with every action a player does?
Btw, I thought there was a rule that 3rd man in etc. gets a red card. Is this still in action?
Would this not stop a melee if enforced?
As far as I am aware there's no such rule. You don't need everything defined to the nth degree you simply need to avoid wildly undefined offences. Plenty of sports are able to do it very successfully. There seems however to be a complete refusal to do it in the GAA.
There apparently is a rule for 3rd man in - I only say this because I was guilty of going in and the ref read that rule out to me and gave me a red card.. It must go by ref though as I have seen it done on plenty of other matches but no reds given
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 10:08:44 AM
Honestly David while you're clearly trying to be level headed about this, you're barking up the wrong tree looking for clear definitions for everything that may constitute foul play.
No sporting association in the world attempts to defines a melee in law. They instead, like GAA, have a catch-all disrepute charge, that can be employed as needed.
The biggest problem with GAA disciplinary process is NOT the rule book as you suggest: that's a complete cop out. The problem is cultural. Short of putting a man in hospital, players and their entire support, expect red cards to be overturned. It's absolutely f**king ludicrous. It needs to change.
Few things again.
1. You don't need to define everything you simply need to avoid hideously I'll defined things. Such as contributing to a melee. For fairness to exist an individual needs to know that what they are doing is an offence. A better way to think of it may be if you ask. How did he contribute to the melee? If your answer is by contributing to a melee that's not sufficiently certain enough to constitute an offence.
2. Contrary to your assertion a number of sports define a melee, ice hockey, rugby league and bizarrely International Rules for example. Others don't but then they also don't have a specific penalty for contributing to a melee.
3. On your final point I think one leads to the other. Players will not and should not be expected to sit back and take a penalty they perceive to be an injustice. You start with a proper robust rule book that ensures fairness I think you start to see far less appeals. If there are far less appeals then that improves faith in the rule book etc etc
The only difference between the acceptance of sanctions in the GAA and association football, is cultural.
So in short, we shouldnt believe what we see In Front of our eyes. G that Rule 1 out of the Trump playbook.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 11:18:38 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2022, 10:08:44 AM
Honestly David while you're clearly trying to be level headed about this, you're barking up the wrong tree looking for clear definitions for everything that may constitute foul play.
No sporting association in the world attempts to defines a melee in law. They instead, like GAA, have a catch-all disrepute charge, that can be employed as needed.
The biggest problem with GAA disciplinary process is NOT the rule book as you suggest: that's a complete cop out. The problem is cultural. Short of putting a man in hospital, players and their entire support, expect red cards to be overturned. It's absolutely f**king ludicrous. It needs to change.
Few things again.
1. You don't need to define everything you simply need to avoid hideously I'll defined things. Such as contributing to a melee. For fairness to exist an individual needs to know that what they are doing is an offence. A better way to think of it may be if you ask. How did he contribute to the melee? If your answer is by contributing to a melee that's not sufficiently certain enough to constitute an offence.
2. Contrary to your assertion a number of sports define a melee, ice hockey, rugby league and bizarrely International Rules for example. Others don't but then they also don't have a specific penalty for contributing to a melee.
3. On your final point I think one leads to the other. Players will not and should not be expected to sit back and take a penalty they perceive to be an injustice. You start with a proper robust rule book that ensures fairness I think you start to see far less appeals. If there are far less appeals then that improves faith in the rule book etc etc
The only difference between the acceptance of sanctions in the GAA and association football, is cultural.
I'm not sure I agree with that given the number of cases from here that have ended up before CAS recently. I think if a suspension is thought of as fair and applied across the board it's accepted. If it's thought of as unfair it's challenged
According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.
It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.
It's a nonsense and there is a requirement by the GAA to make the rules fit for purpose in regards to red card offences and make it plain.
Referee's up and down the country are talking about this and its not a reflection on them to be fair, they can only use follow the rules and what happens at appeal level is down to them.
The frustration is that this has been going on for a while and nothing done or even been seen to be looked at, more concerned in bringing in forward marks sin bins and whatever else they feel might improve the game, but if they actually looked at sorting out the real problems first then that would be better ..
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2022, 12:05:12 PM
According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.
It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.
Well that's a load of nonsense for a start.. Any video evidence can be used
Quote from: JoG2 on April 20, 2022, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2022, 12:05:12 PM
According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.
It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.
Well that's a load of nonsense for a start.. Any video evidence can be used
Are you sure? Have heard that before about not official footage
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.
Quote1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.
was this explained further . some one must have fecked up . if the procedure to apply aban in a sport is that unclear no wonder were all going round in circles
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2022, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.
Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.
And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.
Yeah, wee Johnny will miss a county final because he punched somebody in the semi-final type of attitude.
Yeah, he should miss because he acted the clown.
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2022, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.
Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.
And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.
It is thought that Donegal chose not to appeal because they were simply afraid that Murphy would be cited and also suspended. Not because they thought it was the correct thing to do. They gambled and lost and Ferry and McGee must be left asking questions of the Donegal management team who failed to back them in the way that Armagh backed their players.
It has been going on for years where players have been getting off on technicalities. However it's not like any player committed a serious offence to begin with during this incident. It was blown up by The Sunday Game in the aftermatch of David Gough flashing red cards everywhere in the Athletic Grounds.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2022, 01:05:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2022, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.
Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.
And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.
It is thought that Donegal chose not to appeal because they were simply afraid that Murphy would be cited and also suspended. Not because they thought it was the correct thing to do. They gambled and lost and Ferry and McGee must be left asking questions of the Donegal management team who failed to back them in the way that Armagh backed their players.
It has been going on for years where players have been getting off on technicalities. However it's not like any player committed a serious offence to begin with during this incident. It was blown up by The Sunday Game in the aftermatch of David Gough flashing red cards everywhere in the Athletic Grounds.
Let's say your "it is thought" speculation on Murphy is true.
That is a f**king ridiculous state of affairs.
If Murphy did something and the evidence is there, then it shouldn't matter one f**k whether or not Donegal appeal the other suspensions. He should have been cited and punished. End of story.
It beggars belief that that could be the actual way the GAA conducts its business.
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2022, 01:05:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2022, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.
Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.
And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.
It is thought that Donegal chose not to appeal because they were simply afraid that Murphy would be cited and also suspended. Not because they thought it was the correct thing to do. They gambled and lost and Ferry and McGee must be left asking questions of the Donegal management team who failed to back them in the way that Armagh backed their players.
It has been going on for years where players have been getting off on technicalities. However it's not like any player committed a serious offence to begin with during this incident. It was blown up by The Sunday Game in the aftermatch of David Gough flashing red cards everywhere in the Athletic Grounds.
Let's say your "it is thought" speculation on Murphy is true.
That is a f**king ridiculous state of affairs.
If Murphy did something and the evidence is there, then it shouldn't matter one f**k whether or not Donegal appeal the other suspensions. He should have been cited and punished. End of story.
It beggars belief that that could be the actual way the GAA conducts its business.
I'm not disagreeing with you but it has been the way of the GAA for years. As Eamon McGee said previously, appeal and deny and it is almost certain that your suspension will be overturned with the correct legal team behind you. Maybe Donegal thought that since the 4 Tyrone players had failed to get off previously that things had changed and therefore didn't bother appealing. Maybe I have missed something but nobody is still the wiser as to what the 5 players did to warrant one match bans in the first place. So this is slightly different to some more clear cut bans being overturned in the past.
The message is now back to the same as it ever was however. Appeal, deny and get a good legal team in place and you should be fine.
And make sure everyone piles in when an incident occurs!
I hope its not the case and a glorious, sporting, end-to-end contest breaks out, but I'm afraid this match could end up being a nasty, ill-tempered affair with the Sunday Game spending 15 minutes going through the scuffles.
I still say that they need a rule change to stop the all in aspect. Whistle blows and players should be required to stand where there are and 2m from other players (this will also prevent Covid).
This season is probably lost, but they need to introduce something like this in the pre season competitions and stick to it.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2022, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 20, 2022, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2022, 12:05:12 PM
According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.
It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.
Well that's a load of nonsense for a start.. Any video evidence can be used
Are you sure? Have heard that before about not official footage
Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white in the rule book
Quote from: JoG2 on April 20, 2022, 02:09:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2022, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 20, 2022, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2022, 12:05:12 PM
According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.
It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.
Well that's a load of nonsense for a start.. Any video evidence can be used
Are you sure? Have heard that before about not official footage
Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white in the rule book
Fair enough. Would love to see the refs report and hear exactly what went all in all hearings!
As J70 already said, it's now open season for all in. I remember Mark Lynch been sent of a few yrs bck to break up the Kildare goalkeeper skirmishing with the much smaller Derry forward. Other arrived after, He got the line as 3rd man in, even though he done nothing. First 2 men only got yellows. Must done away with that rule, though it never addressed the main aggressor starting it in the first place.
Plus too many supporters are only too happy to get their own county players off and to hell with the rules or doing right.
I think this entire thread shows how much a shambles the system is. No one appealed in this case just for the sake of it. No one was cleared on mere technicalities or because I 's weren't dotted or t's weren't crossed. Nor did the language of the referees report result in appeals being successful. Proper procedures were not followed and there was real prejudice caused by those failings. No one should be expected to accept a ban that has not been fairly applied. In that regard justice has been done.
There is though a real opportunity for the Association to look at the farce that this case has demonstrated and to learn from it. Unfortunately I doubt the association will.
Mackin withdrew his appeal and will serve his suspension like a man. This is entirely unrelated to the fact that he is injured.
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2022, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".
Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.
As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.
Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.
And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.
Team punishments have happened. About 10 years ago in a televised league (div 2) game at Clones, Mon v Kildare, there was a very lengthy melee just as the players were leaving the pitch at ht. It was clearly started by a disgruntled Kildare player who received a red card and later a Kildare official 4 months. The red card hurt Kildare and they lost a close game.
Croke Park decided that both Monaghan and Kildare be fined Eur5k. Monaghan appealed and instead of the 5k fine they ended up being sanctioned to concede home advantage v Galway. Kildare, the crafty feckers, saw what happened to the Monaghan appeal and decided to pay their 5k.
Galway pushed out ahead at the end and won a close game, Monaghan were relegated, they only had 2 home games and it's safe enough to claim that losing that home advantage was a big factor in the relegation.
Afair there were a number of teams similarly sanctioned (losing home advantage) around that time in the league.
A team punishment is a hefty sanction whereas targeting the worst culprits can just hurt a team but not cripple it.
Contributing to melee is vague but what about the Category 3 rule
(i) Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand or knee. Why can that not be applied to the more aggressive participants in a melee?
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 07:40:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on April 19, 2022, 10:27:21 PM
The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.
Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.
There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).
What makes you say they are cracking down on punches, headlocks etc. None of the 3 Armagh players were cited for this. None of them were involved in any of this. The height of the complaint against them was that they contributed to a melee. This whole process was a farce from start to finish.
In answer to your question is the various punishments that have been meted out for punching and subsequent to the Armagh vs Tyrone match, headlocks.
I never said any of Armagh players were cited for punches or headlocks so you appear to be answering a question nobody has posed.
I would not be as confident as you that these players were not involved in something. The referee saw something.
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2022, 06:19:33 PM
I think this entire thread shows how much a shambles the system is. No one appealed in this case just for the sake of it. No one was cleared on mere technicalities or because I 's weren't dotted or t's weren't crossed. Nor did the language of the referees report result in appeals being successful. Proper procedures were not followed and there was real prejudice caused by those failings. No one should be expected to accept a ban that has not been fairly applied. In that regard justice has been done.
There is though a real opportunity for the Association to look at the farce that this case has demonstrated and to learn from it. Unfortunately I doubt the association will.
I agree with you that the whole thing is a farce and it has been a farce long before this incident. We in Armagh have not made it a farce. Though I am not yet sure that we haven't exploited a farcical set up.
Over the course of these debates you have proved yourself more knowledgeable about the appeals processes than I am. I bow to that. But you are stating categorically that these players have not got off on technicalities. Now given that a guilty player who gets off based upon a procedural error is the very definition of "getting off on a technicality" can you provide a little clarity on these cases and why you can make such a categoric statement?
I genuinely would like someone to spell out the case against the players and why it was overturned. I presume anyone making categoric statements must be in possession of those facts.
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
By Sunday Game I presume you mean league Sunday. In which case absolutely no social media footage was used. Just the camera used in the TG4 footage. Let's stick to the facts here
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
Exactly what questions does it beg?
I'd say when it came down to it, the only way the sanctions against Armagh could stick would have been for equal to be applied to the equally (if not more so) culpable Donegal (retrospectively), which is a place they (the GAA) weren't going to go. Therefore, better to wipe the slates clean, and thereby avoid even more scrutiny of their thoroughly broken system.
Having said that, Armagh do need to avoid being drawn into/instigating these physical exchanges -- they'll come a cropper yet otherwise.
Not matter a damn anyway, Donegal will beat them.
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
No harm, but this is more nonsense.
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
No harm, but this is more nonsense.
What makes it nonsense?
.... Because players have been getting off (and not) in club matches for years on the back of personal video coverage.
What the unedited means is that you can't bring in 5 seconds of footage that pinpoint the incident or lack thereof. You've got to be able to show that the incident (or lack of) isn't isolated. There's no hearings committee would reject footage that shows a new angle, as long as that angle has context.
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 21, 2022, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
No harm, but this is more nonsense.
What makes it nonsense?
The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 21, 2022, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
No harm, but this is more nonsense.
What makes it nonsense?
The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract
I've no idea what's in the rule book. I was asking a question. Normally when people make a statement about something being nonsense they will also state why
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 21, 2022, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 21, 2022, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
No harm, but this is more nonsense.
What makes it nonsense?
The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract
I've no idea what's in the rule book. I was asking a question. Normally when people make a statement about something being nonsense they will also state why
I had already stated twice that any video footage can be used
Be funny I'd Rory staged a few videos of fights on a 'field' and used it as 'actual' footage ;)
I can understand why they'd prefer unedited video footage though. If you were a supporter of one team and had recorded the melee and only showed and edited version/footage of the other teams antics it wouldn't be a true reflection
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 21, 2022, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 21, 2022, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh Girl on April 20, 2022, 09:04:40 PM
Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc. Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened. How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams. Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them .... Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided. More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!
No harm, but this is more nonsense.
What makes it nonsense?
The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract
I've no idea what's in the rule book. I was asking a question. Normally when people make a statement about something being nonsense they will also state why
I had already stated twice that any video footage can be used
I just looked up the rule book. Video evidence can be used
iii) Video evidence introduced by any party shall be admissible provided that:
(a) a copy has been furnished to all other parties within a reasonable period prior to the Hearing, and
(b) the Hearings Committee is satisfied that the video evidence is reliable and unedited;
That's taken from Chapter 7. Hearings. Z aa 1 (iii)
So I guess it wasn't all nonsense. Dunno where the part about proper media etc comes into it. Inference on the posters part perhaps.
Hopefully we've a great summer of football and not endless days of these 'melee's' and post mortems, rules and procedures!
Tommy Dunne of Tipp gets 3 months following his sending off on Sunday just after half-time V Waterford. Gave a mouthful to the ref.
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2022, 09:00:02 PM
Hopefully we've a great summer of football and not endless days of these 'melee's' and post mortems, rules and procedures!
Agreed
Quote from: marty34 on April 21, 2022, 09:03:50 PM
Tommy Dunne of Tipp gets 3 months following his sending off on Sunday just after half-time V Waterford. Gave a mouthful to the ref.
As a ref you hate the personal insults and abuse you get, but providing he made a personal apology and a public one with a message I'd be happy that was dropped to 2 game ban..
Neck choking only gets you a one match ban lol
Tommy always looked the calm one over the years, certainly as a player and manager.
Conor McKenna's hearing was postponed last night by CCCC
Bit odd that isnt it?
Shambles of an organisation, rather than putting the thing to bed it rumbles on....
Quote from: God14 on April 22, 2022, 10:46:51 AM
Conor McKenna's hearing was postponed last night by CCCC
Bit odd that isnt it?
Shambles of an organisation, rather than putting the thing to bed it rumbles on....
very odd
Quote from: God14 on April 22, 2022, 10:46:51 AM
Conor McKenna's hearing was postponed last night by CCCC
Bit odd that isnt it?
Shambles of an organisation, rather than putting the thing to bed it rumbles on....
I'd suspect there is currently an impasse between GAA top brass and the hearings committee. Something along the lines of "didn't you get the memo lads, melees are gone?" and "don't tell us what to do, we follow the rules, not your orders."
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2022, 09:43:02 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 21, 2022, 09:03:50 PM
Tommy Dunne of Tipp gets 3 months following his sending off on Sunday just after half-time V Waterford. Gave a mouthful to the ref.
As a ref you hate the personal insults and abuse you get, but providing he made a personal apology and a public one with a message I'd be happy that was dropped to 2 game ban..
Neck choking only gets you a one match ban lol
Tommy always looked the calm one over the years, certainly as a player and manager.
He might have looked calm, but he's as rough as they come.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2022, 09:43:02 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 21, 2022, 09:03:50 PM
Tommy Dunne of Tipp gets 3 months following his sending off on Sunday just after half-time V Waterford. Gave a mouthful to the ref.
As a ref you hate the personal insults and abuse you get, but providing he made a personal apology and a public one with a message I'd be happy that was dropped to 2 game ban..
Neck choking only gets you a one match ban lol
Tommy always looked the calm one over the years, certainly as a player and manager.
Yeah, I presume he wasn't happy with only a yellow being dished out to M. Kiely for the wild swing just before half-time.
Waterford, down to 14, might have changed the game a bit but who knows.
But Dunne should be experienced enough to keep it level and just say to ref. it should have been a red card and Waterford should be down to 14. Play on the ref's mind a bit without the verbal abuse.
Quote from: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 11:03:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2022, 09:43:02 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 21, 2022, 09:03:50 PM
Tommy Dunne of Tipp gets 3 months following his sending off on Sunday just after half-time V Waterford. Gave a mouthful to the ref.
As a ref you hate the personal insults and abuse you get, but providing he made a personal apology and a public one with a message I'd be happy that was dropped to 2 game ban..
Neck choking only gets you a one match ban lol
Tommy always looked the calm one over the years, certainly as a player and manager.
He might have looked calm, but he's as rough as they come.
He is from Toomevara after all.
I'd propose referees just stop issuing red cards for anything and let them at it. Sure what could go wrong. The events of the last week are a farce and an embarrassment to any sporting organisation.
Quote from: clarshack on April 22, 2022, 11:00:12 AM
Quote from: God14 on April 22, 2022, 10:46:51 AM
Conor McKenna's hearing was postponed last night by CCCC
Bit odd that isnt it?
Shambles of an organisation, rather than putting the thing to bed it rumbles on....
very odd
I would say it's to give them more time to anticipate what grounds of appeal tyrone will use.
They have created a rod for their own back. They can't not let mckenna off after letting ll the Armagh lads off but at the same time they can't afford for anymore appeals to be successful as it highlights what a shambles they are
Quote from: Itchy on April 22, 2022, 01:49:20 PM
I'd propose referees just stop issuing red cards for anything and let them at it. Sure what could go wrong. The events of the last week are a farce and an embarrassment to any sporting organisation.
That's my form, can't be assed with the paperwork ;)
QuoteThe suspensions were reportedly dismissed on the grounds that not enough detail had been submitted to prove the players had 'contributed to a melee' in an Allianz Football League match against Donegal in March. The rulebook does not specify how or if a referee is expected to back up their assertion.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0421/1293598-whelan-fundamentally-flawed-gaa-rules-too-easy-to-beat/
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 22, 2022, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 22, 2022, 11:00:12 AM
Quote from: God14 on April 22, 2022, 10:46:51 AM
Conor McKenna's hearing was postponed last night by CCCC
Bit odd that isnt it?
Shambles of an organisation, rather than putting the thing to bed it rumbles on....
very odd
I would say it's to give them more time to anticipate what grounds of appeal tyrone will use.
They have created a rod for their own back. They can't not let mckenna off after letting ll the Armagh lads off but at the same time they can't afford for anymore appeals to be successful as it highlights what a shambles they are
I don't think the Armagh outcome will have any real impact on the decision in this one. That said he should simply have his ban overturned because it was a nonsense in the first place