And now to Cavan.. This will be tight. McGleenon reckons D Hughes'll feature (insider information?), will K Hughes last the distance? So many questions...
Cavan have question marks over some players and I'm not even sure we know our strongest 15 and what positions to play them. League gave us more questions than answers. Monaghan by 4.
Don't fancy us at all. I am hearing Cavan's injury problems are not good.
Who won this game?
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Who won this game?
They can't all be 27-point, free-scoring-fests Jinxy.. ;)
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Who won this game?
A draw, as was the replay. Second replay on next Sunday.
It must be all the Mushrooms.
I think we've had our "now that's a turn up for the books" result already when we beat Tyrone or Mayo. Hope I'm wrong but Indd say the bookies' odd are on Monaghan. If we are winning towards the end, I hope we don't a Down on it and start going laterally trying to run the clock down. Or Armagh's ploy of trying to go for goals when a point would seem easier to score.
Cavan 15/8 Monaghan 4/7 with Paddy Power
Cavan with big injury concerns and dealing with the sudden death of one of their backroom team (RIP Dominic Early) aren't in a good place.
Monaghan are just a better side pretty much all over the field. The Farney by 6, but they'll work for it.
I have lived in important places, times
When great events were decided, who owned
That half a rood of rock, a no-man's land
Surrounded by our pitchfork-armed claims.
I heard the Duffys shouting "Damn your soul!"
And old McCabe stripped to the waist, seen
Step the plot defying blue cast-steel -
"Here is the march along these iron stones."
That was the year of the Munich bother. Which
Was more important? I inclined
To lose my faith in Ballyrush and Gortin
Till Homer's ghost came whispering to my mind.
He said: I made the Iliad from such
A local row. Gods make their own importance.
Patrick Kavanagh
Cavan played Galway couple of weeks ago and only players missing were Clarke and dara mc veety, word is the Black Death has returned and Cavan could be more defensive than ever! Expect monaghan to return the favour, could be a thriller!! 9 each
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 09:35:24 PM
I have lived in important places, times
When great events were decided, who owned
That half a rood of rock, a no-man's land
Surrounded by our pitchfork-armed claims.
I heard the Duffys shouting "Damn your soul!"
And old McCabe stripped to the waist, seen
Step the plot defying blue cast-steel -
"Here is the march along these iron stones."
That was the year of the Munich bother. Which
Was more important? I inclined
To lose my faith in Ballyrush and Gortin
Till Homer's ghost came whispering to my mind.
He said: I made the Iliad from such
A local row. Gods make their own importance.
Patrick Kavanagh
His a great poem by a great poet. But even he got his hole sickened by Monaghan.
Quote from: Itchy on June 05, 2017, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 09:35:24 PM
I have lived in important places, times
When great events were decided, who owned
That half a rood of rock, a no-man's land
Surrounded by our pitchfork-armed claims.
I heard the Duffys shouting "Damn your soul!"
And old McCabe stripped to the waist, seen
Step the plot defying blue cast-steel -
"Here is the march along these iron stones."
That was the year of the Munich bother. Which
Was more important? I inclined
To lose my faith in Ballyrush and Gortin
Till Homer's ghost came whispering to my mind.
He said: I made the Iliad from such
A local row. Gods make their own importance.
Patrick Kavanagh
His a great poem by a great poet. But even he got his hole sickened by Monaghan.
Your quote is akin to the name of the poem, Epic.
'Oh stony grey soil of Monaghan, you sicken my hole.'
Quote from: Jinxy on June 06, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
'Oh stony grey soil of Monaghan, you sicken my hole.'
Indeed Jinxy, I think that sums up his poetry alright. In fact, if he had just said that it would have saved us a whole lot of hassle in the leaving cert.
Anyway ya Monaghan hoors, here is some real poetry by the legendary Bard himself, Declan Nerney..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmFNy87cS9g
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2017, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 06, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
'Oh stony grey soil of Monaghan, you sicken my hole.'
Indeed Jinxy, I think that sums up his poetry alright. In fact, if he had just said that it would have saved us a whole lot of hassle in the leaving cert.
Anyway ya Monaghan hoors, here is some real poetry by the legendary Bard himself, Declan Nerney..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmFNy87cS9g
Nerney is from Longford.
The song was written by a Cavan man. I didn't know John Joe Reilly also died young. Thet great Cavan team had tragedy as well as glory.. PJ Duke was still in his 20s when he died.
I know well where nerney is from, sure just look at his haircut. That's a drumlish special.
Do a google search for famous cavan poets,
and the reply comes "Did you mean: famous cuban poets" .
;D
Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
Do a google search for famous cavan poets,
and the reply comes "Did you mean: famous cuban poets" .
;D
Do a search for Monaghan All Ireland Winners and the reply is "sorry your search brought up no results."
Ah the el Classico where we will even fight over poetry.
I like to think of Cavan and Monaghan folk as the noble savages of Ireland.
And that's a compliment.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2017, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 06, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
'Oh stony grey soil of Monaghan, you sicken my hole.'
Indeed Jinxy, I think that sums up his poetry alright. In fact, if he had just said that it would have saved us a whole lot of hassle in the leaving cert.
Anyway ya Monaghan hoors, here is some real poetry by the legendary Bard himself, Declan Nerney..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmFNy87cS9g
I will see your tenuous links to Declan Nearney and raise you the king of that genre himself , the Oram troubadour himself, Big Tom
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUCtKTkOXA (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUCtKTkOXA)
Even when it's country music kudos at stake we will not yield one mm to the Cavan Philistines, in the words of Padraig Pearce , in matters of principle there can be no compromise.
Muineachain Abu !!!!
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 06, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
Do a google search for famous cavan poets,
and the reply comes "Did you mean: famous cuban poets" .
;D
Do a search for Monaghan All Ireland Winners and the reply is "sorry your search brought up no results."
Eh? you cavan hillbilly wouldn't know context even if it hit you like a sledgehammer.
Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2017, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 06, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
Do a google search for famous cavan poets,
and the reply comes "Did you mean: famous cuban poets" .
;D
Do a search for Monaghan All Ireland Winners and the reply is "sorry your search brought up no results."
Eh? you cavan hillbilly wouldn't know context even if it hit you like a sledgehammer.
Mrdeeds should apologise for that comment. Below the belt. It's like teasing the poor for having no food.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2017, 10:44:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2017, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 06, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
Do a google search for famous cavan poets,
and the reply comes "Did you mean: famous cuban poets" .
;D
Do a search for Monaghan All Ireland Winners and the reply is "sorry your search brought up no results."
Eh? you cavan hillbilly wouldn't know context even if it hit you like a sledgehammer.
Mrdeeds should apologise for that comment. Below the belt. It's like teasing the poor for having no food.
I'll have to talk to my great grand father to find out what you hillbillies are on about, after been brought to task about your utter lack of poetic heritage.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Who won this game?
Am I missing something here? Why has the date not been corrected yet? ;) ;) :)
Quote from: thebuzz on June 07, 2017, 10:43:23 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Who won this game?
Am I missing something here? Why has the date not been corrected yet? ;) ;) :)
No, you're not missing anything at all. It ended up a repeat of the 1888 Ulster Final: Monaghan 0-3, Cavan 0-1
Why haven't Monaghan won at least 1 Sam?
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 05:29:05 PM
Why haven't Monaghan won at least 1 Sam?
1. Stock car racing
2. Car Rallies
3. Jiving
4. Picking mushrooms
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 05:29:05 PM
Why haven't Monaghan won at least 1 Sam?
I'm sure the Monaghan lads will tell you why!
Quote from: Itchy on June 08, 2017, 10:04:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 05:29:05 PM
Why haven't Monaghan won at least 1 Sam?
I'm sure the Monaghan lads will tell you why!
We have worthy women who capture All Ireland senior trophies on behalf of the county.
I understand this is a derby game between two old rivals but in reality should Monaghan not have far too much for Cavan. No doubt Cavan will sit back and try to frustrate them but Monaghan have shown over the last few years that they're well able to win ugly as the have beaten both Tyrone and Donegal well in recent years.
Monaghan must look at Tipperary last year getting to an AI semifinal and wonder why have they not managed to achieve that in recent years. As I've said quite often recently, winning Ulster can often be a poisoned chalice as so much effort goes into it, that the AI quarterfinal is often a tough game to get up for.
No doubt the lads on TSG will have a field day giving out about the style of football and so much effort being put in to stop the other team. Cavan shocked Tyrone last year with so many goals in the first game but I can't see a repeat of that against a very strong Monaghan defence.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 08, 2017, 03:17:10 PM
I understand this is a derby game between two old rivals but in reality should Monaghan not have far too much for Cavan. No doubt Cavan will sit back and try to frustrate them but Monaghan have shown over the last few years that they're well able to win ugly as the have beaten both Tyrone and Donegal well in recent years.
Monaghan must look at Tipperary last year getting to an AI semifinal and wonder why have they not managed to achieve that in recent years. As I've said quite often recently, winning Ulster can often be a poisoned chalice as so much effort goes into it, that the AI quarterfinal is often a tough game to get up for.
No doubt the lads on TSG will have a field day giving out about the style of football and so much effort being put in to stop the other team. Cavan shocked Tyrone last year with so many goals in the first game but I can't see a repeat of that against a very strong Monaghan defence.
Cavan don't have that goal threat as it all came from playing David Givney at FF but he has opted out this year. Our league goal threat came when McVitty drifted inside and he was explosive in there but word is he is injured and won't feature. Therefore Cavan will have no option but to go out very defensive in this game and I believe they will be way more defensive than they ever were under Hyland. With the hand they have been dealt that is what I would do as a coach. I would have looked at Raymond Gallagher putting serious work into free taking. He can kick the ball over from 60m and at club level he often does. Strangely his frees were quite poor in the league. So if Monaghan can stop goals (which they have a minimal threat from Cavan), not concede frees inside 50/60m and get some decent return from their FF line then I cannot see Cavan win. For Cavan to win they would have to have a loctite defensive effort to totally negate McMannus and Co. Force Monaghan to kick long to midfield where i think Cavan can win the battle and be very economical with whatever chances they have then Cavan could win. Monaghan win is much more likely and the bookies think so too but these games have always been tight and the fear of losing can do weird and wonderful things to players on a big day against your biggest rivals.
Monaghan's rivals these days are Tyrone and Donegal.
Games against Cavan have been tame affairs by comparison.
Quote from: Main Street on June 08, 2017, 09:40:10 PM
Monaghan's rivals these days are Tyrone and Donegal.
Games against Cavan have been tame affairs by comparison.
If you say so. I think the people both sides of our long border will think differently. Sure the mushroom men used to peep over the ditches just to catch a glimpse of a Sam back in the day. I suppose maybe on your side you'd be peeping over to look at Tyrones Sams - fair enough.
Unchanged team for Monaghan. Darren Hughes returns on the bench.
1 Rory Beggan
2 Fintan Kelly
3 Drew Wylie
4 Ryan Wylie
5 Colin Walshe
6 Vinny Corey
7 Neil Mc Adam
8 Kieran Hughes
9 Karl O'Connell
10 Gavin Doogan
11 Shane Carey
12 Dessie Ward
13 Conor Mc Carthy
14 Jack Mc Carron
15 Conor Mc Manus
16 Conor Forde
17 Kieran Duffy
18 James Mealiff
19 Dessie Mone
20 Brian Greenan
21 Darren Hughes
22 Dermot Malone
23 Owen Duffy
24 Ryan Mc Anespie
25 Thomas Kerr
26 Micheal Bannigan
Cavan team named
1.Raymond Galligan (Lacken)
2. Padraig Faulkner (Kingscourt)
3. Killian Clarke (Shercock)
4. Niall Murray (Cavan Gaels)
5. James McEnroe (Ramor United)
6. Conor Moynagh (Drumgoon)
7. Gerard Smith (Lavey)
8. Liam Buchanan (Ballymachugh)
9. Gearoid McKiernan (Swanlinbar)
10. Cian Mackey (Castlerahan)
11. Conor Madden (Gowna)
12. Martin Reilly (Killygarry)
13. Niall Clerkin (Shercock)
14. Niall McDermott (Ballinagh)
15. Sean Johnston (Cavan Gaels)
16. James Farrelly (Kingscourt)
17. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels)
18. Fergal Reilly (Castlerahan)
19. Tomas Corr (Denn)
20. Ciaran Brady (Arvagh)
21. Thomas Galligan (Lacken)
22. Ryan Connolly (Drumlane)
23. Joe Dillon (Kingscourt)
24. Caoimhin O'Reilly (Butlersbridge)
25. Joshua Hayes (Cootehill Celtic)
26. Dara McVeety (Crosserlough)
Quote from: Itchy on June 08, 2017, 09:51:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 08, 2017, 09:40:10 PM
Monaghan's rivals these days are Tyrone and Donegal.
Games against Cavan have been tame affairs by comparison.
If you say so. I think the people both sides of our long border will think differently. Sure the mushroom men used to peep over the ditches just to catch a glimpse of a Sam back in the day. I suppose maybe on your side you'd be peeping over to look at Tyrones Sams - fair enough.
Hard to tell how our great grandfathers acted out when Cavan last won an AI. And regardless, Cavan's ancient trophy cabinet will be féck all use to them when the game begins.
We have a very settled team who should do the business on sunday.
Darren Hughes on the bench is great news.
McVeety is a huge loss although I'd imagine he'll be given every chance to prove his fitness before Sunday.
McEnroe included after missing the whole league, second year in a row this has happened. He's a good player but I can't see him being up to speed.
Feargal Reilly played the whole league and was very solid, he can feel aggrieved at being excluded. Niall Clerkin is, IMO, out of his depth and has been all year. Can't understand how he's such a favourite of Mattie's. Galligan, Connolly and O'Reilly are three good prospects, be interesting to see how they fare out if they're thrown into the fray. Shows how light we are up front when they form the most of our forward options off the bench.
Quote from: Westside on June 08, 2017, 10:37:09 PM
McVeety is a huge loss although I'd imagine he'll be given every chance to prove his fitness before Sunday.
McEnroe included after missing the whole league, second year in a row this has happened. He's a good player but I can't see him being up to speed.
Feargal Reilly played the whole league and was very solid, he can feel aggrieved at being excluded. Niall Clerkin is, IMO, out of his depth and has been all year. Can't understand how he's such a favourite of Mattie's. Galligan, Connolly and O'Reilly are three good prospects, be interesting to see how they fare out if they're thrown into the fray. Shows how light we are up front when they form the most of our forward options off the bench.
That full forward line wouldn't fill me with confidence. Dillon maybe might start and can't see Madden on 40.
Quote from: Westside on June 08, 2017, 10:37:09 PM
McVeety is a huge loss although I'd imagine he'll be given every chance to prove his fitness before Sunday.
McEnroe included after missing the whole league, second year in a row this has happened. He's a good player but I can't see him being up to speed.
Feargal Reilly played the whole league and was very solid, he can feel aggrieved at being excluded. Niall Clerkin is, IMO, out of his depth and has been all year. Can't understand how he's such a favourite of Mattie's. Galligan, Connolly and O'Reilly are three good prospects, be interesting to see how they fare out if they're thrown into the fray. Shows how light we are up front when they form the most of our forward options off the bench.
What is it, 10 weeks since our last game. 10 weeks for players to stake a claim and show what they've got. League is ancient history now. I can only presume these are the players showing up the best. We will see on Sunday.
Yeah true but I still find it hard to think that a lad with a very good Division 1 League Campaign behind him can be ousted from the team by a lad who hasn't played a competitive game all year. Big fan of McEnroe though, when he's on form he's a fantastic addition, hopefully we'll see the best out of him Sunday.
I'd rather see Dillon start than Madden. Dillon is strong and aggressive, Madden has proven watery enough in the past and has a tendency to let games pass him by.
Any rational analysis points to Monaghan winning this one, but even a poor Cavan team would always give the Farneymen a run for their money, and vice-versa, as has more often been the case traditionally. A situation where one or the other continues to win narrowly or avoid defeat over a significant span of time is unlikely to persist too long on the law of averages of derbies so although Cavan will play more with hope than expectation, because that burden thankfully rests instead on our neighbours, there isn't a single one of the possible outcomes to this game that would surprise me one iota. Hopefully it's not an utter borefest for the neutral anyway.
The stadium has to be referred to now as just Kingspan Breffni.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2017, 11:43:27 AM
The stadium has to be referred to know as just Kingspan Breffni.
f**k that shite. Its Breffni Park. Haven't ever heard a supporter call it anything else.
Niall Carew, Sligos Muppet Manager had this to say about the game...
As for Monaghan and Cavan, Carew believes the purists will have to avert their gaze from this one.
"I think that's probably the game that will end up in a draw. Monaghan, the way they play, will always give you a chance to stay in the game.
"Cavan were in Division 1, they won't fear Monaghan. I think tactically it will be horrendous to watch. But both managers won't care if they got over the line. Monaghan are on the road a while. I think Cavan might be due a win but it might stick with the draw for the value."
Funnily, Sligo are pretty horrendous to watch every match. Carew should spend more time coaching than talking crap.
Breffni men instructed to go ground with the slightest of touches?
Monaghan men falling to the ground
McManus is a REAL diver.
surely that was a free to Cavan
pushed Seanie in the face
Quote from: Carbery on June 11, 2017, 02:26:06 PM
McManus is a REAL diver.
Sadly in GAA this is becoming the norm. Watch Jamie Clarke last week trying to say on his feet, get battered and not get a free . Referees like Neilan give frees for damn all so diving pays off.
Beggan must be the best kicker of a ball off the ground in the country now. Unbelievable kick.
Quote from: Throw ball on June 11, 2017, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Carbery on June 11, 2017, 02:26:06 PM
McManus is a REAL diver.
Sadly in GAA this is becoming the norm. Watch Jamie Clarke last week trying to say on his feet, get battered and not get a free . Referees like Neilan give frees for damn all so diving pays off.
Excellent ref.
Jaysus, i hate Ger Canning. Replay showed about 10 times that McManus didnt touch that Duffy shot, but each time he just got more convinced it was a McManus point.
Quote from: Carbery on June 11, 2017, 02:26:06 PM
McManus is a REAL diver.
He's some man to win a free. Jack McCarron hits the floor easily too.
Monaghan player just did a John Terry and tried to header the ball on the ground.
Good game between two well organized and matched teams. Some excellent scores from play and frees in difficult conditions.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2017, 03:15:41 PM
Good game between two well organized and matched teams. Some excellent scores from play and frees in difficult conditions.
'Organized'.
Defensive Ulsterball is what everyone else calls it. Hopefully Cavan can sneak it.
McManus at his brilliant best there.
Great goal by Mcmanus then he goes do a Tieran McCann, county men got no morals at all these days, try to get anybody sent off for nothing. Just another in a long line of divers we got in the sport at the minute.
Refs don't bother with the ball travelling the correct distance from the kick out anymore...unless your name is Stephen Cluxton.
Monaghan pushing on while it looks like the stuffing is knocked out of Cavan?
For the most part it was a dog's bollix of a game apart from a bit of open play in the 2nd half. The conditions were awful though.
Both supporters will rue some poor shooting but quite frankly Monaghan were guilty of dreadful shooting.
The ref could have used advantage to better effect and seemed to buy a foul every time a player rolled on the ground
Overall a sluggish spectacle glossed over by the excitement of a close game.
Cavan should go into the qualifier with confidence.
Monaghan might get past Down but look to be a good bit behind Donegal and Tyrone
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2017, 03:48:24 PM
For the most part it was a dog's bollix of a game apart from a bit of open play in the 2nd half. The conditions were awful though.
Both supporters will rue some poor shooting but quite frankly Monaghan were guilty of dreadful shooting.
The ref could have used advantage to better effect and seemed to buy a foul every time a player rolled on the ground
Overall a sluggish spectacle glossed over by the excitement of a close game.
Cavan should go into the qualifier with confidence.
Monaghan might get past Down but look to be a good bit behind Donegal and Tyrone
Monaghan will get past Down easily enough. Down scored 0-15 on a good day against a poor defense - Monaghan scored 1-15 on a rubbish day against a defensive system. If Down are able to make it a competitive game most Down supporters will be happy.
Best team won as I predicted. Too many passengers on the cavan team including Johnston who contributed nothing yet again in a big game. Monaghan 6 pts a better team and only brutal shooting kept cavan in it in last quarter. Very poor show by cavan keeper too, probably cost us 3 pts with poor kick outs. So the vocal minority that insisted on Hyland was not rid off, whatvsay ye now with league relegation and out of ulster at 1st hurdle?
Good game.
Moynagh really should have taken McManus down there when he was 1 on 1.
Very harsh on Johnston, Itchy. Thought he showed very well today for Cavan.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 11, 2017, 04:45:25 PM
Good game.
Moynagh really should have taken McManus down there when he was 1 on 1.
Very harsh on Johnston, Itchy. Thought he showed very well today for Cavan.
Showed well!!! He didn't win one ball the whole match. He isn't able to track back. No scores from play.
Quote from: Itchy on June 11, 2017, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 11, 2017, 04:45:25 PM
Good game.
Moynagh really should have taken McManus down there when he was 1 on 1.
Very harsh on Johnston, Itchy. Thought he showed very well today for Cavan.
Showed well!!! He didn't win one ball the whole match. He isn't able to track back. No scores from play.
He gave Kelly the runaround a few times.
Right good game today, Cavan need to get a game plan and stay with it, have the talent to be contenders but that Monaghan team will be hard to beat this year, no one will fancy playing them.
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2017, 03:48:24 PM
For the most part it was a dog's bollix of a game apart from a bit of open play in the 2nd half. The conditions were awful though.
Both supporters will rue some poor shooting but quite frankly Monaghan were guilty of dreadful shooting.
The ref could have used advantage to better effect and seemed to buy a foul every time a player rolled on the ground
Overall a sluggish spectacle glossed over by the excitement of a close game.
Cavan should go into the qualifier with confidence.
Monaghan might get past Down but look to be a good bit behind Donegal and Tyrone
I'd say it was one of Monaghan's poorest shooting displays in a good while - Watching it I thought that both McManus and Carron with guilty of going for great height with their shots which the tricky wind played havoc with.
I'm not so sure if Cavan can take a huge amount of confidence from the game - in the second half their attack looked very limited - Mackay was the only forward to score from play.
Monaghan should get passed Down but will definitely have to do better on the shooting front if they plan to trouble Donegal or Tyrone. Also 8 points conceded from deadballs is way too high an amount (even if I'd agree a couple were of the soft variety)
Yeah we'll definitely need to improve with our accuracy, far too often today we took the wrong option and it resulted in a wild shot. The conditions didn't help but even allowing for that, it was an average enough showing in attack.
But still, this was never going to be an easy game, and combining that with the weather it was very much a case of just getting the win and moving on. I'd expect an overall improvement going forward.
Monaghan just that bit better, committed effort from Cavan but as usual lacked real leadership when the game was in the melting pot.
Johnston contributed very very little today and should have been substituted. Clerkin, Gerry Smith were also poor. Moynagh should have cleaned McManus as the worst case scenario, could still have stood him up I thought, to let him skip around him like that was dreadful. Other than that I thought he played well. Mackey was decent, thought Ciaran Brady played very well when he came on.
Same old same old really. We've improved from the dark days prior to 2013 but we're still a good step below Tyrone, Donegal and to a lesser extent Monaghan.
Rory Beggan. What a man.
A drunken tyrone ramble.
Best game of the Ulster Championship to date.Incidentally is Cian Mackey vastly underrated? He never seems to have a poor game.
Quote from: T Fearon on June 11, 2017, 11:13:19 PM
Best game of the Ulster Championship to date.Incidentally is Cisneros Mackey vastly underrated? He never seems to have a poor game.
Mackey was decent but he's played better. I think he's not taking people on like he used to and actually no one on cavan team bar mcvetty seems to. Gearoid a big disappointment again today, too easily removed from the game by a spoiler.
Quote from: Itchy on June 11, 2017, 04:36:10 PM
So the vocal minority that insisted on Hyland was not rid off, whatvsay ye now with league relegation and out of ulster at 1st hurdle?
Here we go again. Not trying to start a row with you, Itchy, or anyone, but Terry got a more than decent crack of the whip, narrowly but repeatedly fell short of his stated ambition and vacated the position subsequent to stating that he would stay on if the players wanted him, which obviously proved not to be the case. He was given the time and latitude his work deserved and some say he should even have got more; this massive goodwill and infinite patience that some would extend him, even after four/five years, is in direct contrast to the carping and sniping directed at his successor after barely a few months in charge. I can't understand it. McGleenan has scarcely warmed his seat and although it's too early to judge I can't see how he's doing any worse after giving us a shot at staying in Division 1 with some scalps the like of which we never claimed under Terry, running Monaghan close in championship, all without a number of key players (most notably Givney) that Hyland enjoyed the services of? Bottom line is that the previous manager's day was done and IMO it's better to fail trying someone fresh with the potential for progress, than carrying on with a project that had clearly and inarguably stalled.
The constant harking back to Hyland every time we suffer a defeat is reactive and pretty embarrassing to be honest. I've nothing against him, before anyone starts chucking their toys out of the pram, and maybe he might come back and manage us again in a few years with fresh ideas - and I'd support him if he did - but for God's sake, to everyone who wheels out the Hyland references any time we hit a bump, just cool the jets and give Mattie a chance and at least the qualifiers and next year's league before sharpening the knives!
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 12, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 11, 2017, 04:36:10 PM
So the vocal minority that insisted on Hyland was not rid off, whatvsay ye now with league relegation and out of ulster at 1st hurdle?
Here we go again. Not trying to start a row with you, Itchy, or anyone, but Terry got a more than decent crack of the whip, narrowly but repeatedly fell short of his stated ambition and vacated the position subsequent to stating that he would stay on if the players wanted him, which obviously proved not to be the case. He was given the time and latitude his work deserved and some say he should even have got more; this massive goodwill and infinite patience that some would extend him, even after four/five years, is in direct contrast to the carping and sniping directed at his successor after barely a few months in charge. I can't understand it. McGleenan has scarcely warmed his seat and although it's too early to judge I can't see how he's doing any worse after giving us a shot at staying in Division 1 with some scalps the like of which we never claimed under Terry, running Monaghan close in championship, all without a number of key players (most notably Givney) that Hyland enjoyed the services of? Bottom line is that the previous manager's day was done and IMO it's better to fail trying someone fresh with the potential for progress, than carrying on with a project that had clearly and inarguably stalled.
The constant harking back to Hyland every time we suffer a defeat is reactive and pretty embarrassing to be honest. I've nothing against him, before anyone starts chucking their toys out of the pram, and maybe he might come back and manage us again in a few years with fresh ideas - and I'd support him if he did - but for God's sake, to everyone who wheels out the Hyland references any time we hit a bump, just cool the jets and give Mattie a chance and at least the qualifiers and next year's league before sharpening the knives!
I'm just point out to you that maybe Hyland was getting the best out of the players already and got incremental improvements year on year. We have just taken a step backwards this year and that is plain to see. Its all very well demanding change at the helm but what if you have nothing better to replace the boss with? Mattie so far has not impressed me one bit, performances on the field as akin to what Hyland was doing 3 years ago - no pace or cut to the attack. This uber positive nonsense he talks after every game is also starting to grate. I am not calling for his head but my opinion is that this is a poor start and he needs to quickly improve. I just hope he can rally the troops for a run in the qualifiers but I think that might be hard done as a few of them guys would have seen this years draw as our best chance of an Ulster final appearance in some time and losing yesterday was a real kick in the nuts.
McManus is lethal and one of the best forwards in Ireland but why oh why would a man not take a black card to pull him down?
It was like an under 12 game the way he waltzed around him
Quote from: Itchy on June 11, 2017, 11:22:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 11, 2017, 11:13:19 PM
Best game of the Ulster Championship to date.Incidentally is Cisneros Mackey vastly underrated? He never seems to have a poor game.
Mackey was decent but he's played better. I think he's not taking people on like he used to and actually no one on cavan team bar mcvetty seems to. Gearoid a big disappointment again today, too easily removed from the game by a spoiler.
I'd like to see him.play in ff line. That pace he had is gone but still has the intelligence.
It was funny watching the highlights on TSG. They were portraying it as a good game between two evenly matched teams.. That seemed contrary to the game I was at. I thought it was hard watching; the conditions were not good which certainly didn't help. When you see 2/3 men running away from the man on the ball to get back into their defensive shell you ask yourself, why do you watch and coach the game? I'm obviously happy with the win but it was certainly a win ugly scenario. Cavan's game plan seemed to be working for them at half-time in that they had contained Monaghan. With the wind advantage (and it was significant in the first half) a two point advantage was not gonna be enough. Beggan definitely made better use of the strong wind in the first half than Galligan did in the second, giving Monaghan 2 or 3 uncontested kickouts resulting in points. Tactically, MOR got it right in that he kept McCarthy and McAnespie in reserve and started Duffy (who got some great scores and played a great ball over the top of the defense for the goal) and Malone. I thought both teams were reluctant to run at the opposing defense, and I can understand it up to a point as there were few openings in the blanket. Cavan seemed to break the defensive line easier in the first half that Monaghan, especially up their left hand wing. But, and this in a big concern for me (and not just yesterday), when Monaghan went 4 up with the wind at the crucial half way stage in the second half they should have put Cavan away, full stop. Instead, the were wasteful in front of the posts and kept Cavan in it by doing so. They didn't panic however which is a distinctive quality to have. For Cavan, Mackey tried hard in the second half and looked a threat when coming forward but you could see the energy and ideas waining as the game went on. I'd say if McVeety had of been able to start it could have been different as he is a great player at prising open the defense and creating and taking scores.
Onwards and Down-wards..
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 12, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 11, 2017, 04:36:10 PM
So the vocal minority that insisted on Hyland was not rid off, whatvsay ye now with league relegation and out of ulster at 1st hurdle?
Here we go again. Not trying to start a row with you, Itchy, or anyone, but Terry got a more than decent crack of the whip, narrowly but repeatedly fell short of his stated ambition and vacated the position subsequent to stating that he would stay on if the players wanted him, which obviously proved not to be the case. He was given the time and latitude his work deserved and some say he should even have got more; this massive goodwill and infinite patience that some would extend him, even after four/five years, is in direct contrast to the carping and sniping directed at his successor after barely a few months in charge. I can't understand it. McGleenan has scarcely warmed his seat and although it's too early to judge I can't see how he's doing any worse after giving us a shot at staying in Division 1 with some scalps the like of which we never claimed under Terry, running Monaghan close in championship, all without a number of key players (most notably Givney) that Hyland enjoyed the services of? Bottom line is that the previous manager's day was done and IMO it's better to fail trying someone fresh with the potential for progress, than carrying on with a project that had clearly and inarguably stalled.
The constant harking back to Hyland every time we suffer a defeat is reactive and pretty embarrassing to be honest. I've nothing against him, before anyone starts chucking their toys out of the pram, and maybe he might come back and manage us again in a few years with fresh ideas - and I'd support him if he did - but for God's sake, to everyone who wheels out the Hyland references any time we hit a bump, just cool the jets and give Mattie a chance and at least the qualifiers and next year's league before sharpening the knives!
Clearly and inarguably stalled?? There's no case for this at all. We had just been promoted to Division 1 for the first time in donkeys years and brought eventual champions Tyrone to a replay in an Ulster Semi Final. How is that not progress to what came before?
We were a better team last year on the evidence of yesterday. We weren't perfect under Hyland nor were we good enough to win Ulster but we were closer than we are now.
Hyland could hardly claim scalps in Division 1 when he didn't get a chance to manage in that division could he? McGleenan gets scalps but Hyland deserves no credit for league improvement because it's only championship wins that matters, complete double standards.
Cavan were still improving under Hyland, there's no case to say we weren't. People called for his head and they were flat out wrong. It's only natural for those of us who could see this to bring it up after we get relegated and knocked out in the first round of the championship in our last 2 games.
Just to be crystal clear, it was the players who "called for his head".
Quote from: Duckquay on June 12, 2017, 03:38:15 PM
Just to be crystal clear, it was the players who "called for his head".
Don't know if that is true but being frank, players should have no say in this. Too many have vested interests - just look at Mayo. Also its an interesting thing that if that is true how is it that Hyland had players available to him in his last year that wouldn't commit this year - strange behaviour if we are to believe what you said about them calling for his head.
I genuinely wish Mattie success but if he is to succeed he has taken a backward step but hopefully that is part of getting a forward step later. Cant say I am convinced.
Regardless of whether the players wanted him to stay or not, there was a very vocal group that wanted him gone and said he was holding back a group of players with the potential to be Ulster Champions. It's interesting that few seem to be calling for McGleenan's head, we're now being told that we lack the players and we lack the leaders required. I can Guarantee if Hyland had been in charge, we'd have 'thrown away a game' that was 'there for the taking' and the game would have been 'lost on the line'.
When do we play Westmeath/Offaly?
Quote from: Westside on June 12, 2017, 05:35:17 PM
Regardless of whether the players wanted him to stay or not, there was a very vocal group that wanted him gone and said he was holding back a group of players with the potential to be Ulster Champions. It's interesting that few seem to be calling for McGleenan's head, we're now being told that we lack the players and we lack the leaders required. I can Guarantee if Hyland had been in charge, we'd have 'thrown away a game' that was 'there for the taking' and the game would have been 'lost on the line'.
When do we play Westmeath/Offaly?
Weekend after next I think. Cavan have the advantage of being able to watch the replay too which should set them up for success assuming they are interested in giving it a go.
Killian Clarke's interview in the IN Saturday was pretty clear that the players wanted the change. It isn't the way I think things should work for the record. I also know well that other external voices wanted Terry out but if the players wanted him to stay he'd still be there.
I think the next game is away but there should be no apathy towards it. It's must win end of.
At half time in 3 of the last 4 championship games, 2001, 2015 and 2017 the score was 9 7 to Cavan. There was even 16 points in the first half of 2013, 1-5 to 8.
Quote from: Itchy on June 12, 2017, 08:39:17 AM
I'm just point out to you that maybe Hyland was getting the best out of the players already and got incremental improvements year on year. We have just taken a step backwards this year and that is plain to see. Its all very well demanding change at the helm but what if you have nothing better to replace the boss with? Mattie so far has not impressed me one bit, performances on the field as akin to what Hyland was doing 3 years ago - no pace or cut to the attack. This uber positive nonsense he talks after every game is also starting to grate. I am not calling for his head but my opinion is that this is a poor start and he needs to quickly improve. I just hope he can rally the troops for a run in the qualifiers but I think that might be hard done as a few of them guys would have seen this years draw as our best chance of an Ulster final appearance in some time and losing yesterday was a real kick in the nuts.
That's all very sensible and I go along with it for the better part Itchy, and I too have reservations about our new manager, but what I'm mainly saying is that if Terry was given ample time to get his ducks in a row over the course of a few years then Mattie should get at least two without the ghost of the former manager being invoked all the time. It's pointless and counterproductive. In many ways we are a more impatient bunch with Mattie I think, because we've become both accustomed to being back in the picture because of the fine work that Hyland did yet also a bit edgy after the length of time he was there without getting us to an Ulster final at the very least.
To Westside, I think we butted heads on TH before, and we can argue the philosophy of players having an input into decisions but they are best-placed to know and if Terry himself entrusted them - publicly - to make the decision, who are we to argue? If you read between the lines of lads like Givney and Keating and Johnston all coming back to give it a whirl last year, it all pointed to Ulster-or-bust and one last dance with Terry in 2016, I think the path had been laid out well in advance anyway.
Furthermore, if you feel that the draw against Tyrone showed a leap forward in progress under Hyland then that's your opinion but I - and I think most others - wouldn't share it as the only place we were Tyrone's equal that day was on the scoreboard; where it matters most, I know, but really, I thought we were completely controlled and dominated that day but for some goals against the run of play. Those chickens came home to roost in the replay which you neglected to mention and then we were humbled by a fairly average Derry side in the qualifiers which you didn't refer to either? I think that's a fairly sober analysis of the picture and not really a double standard. Monaghan getting out of Breffni with a win in 2015 too, was an appalling and galling choke by the team. It doesn't mean TH is an incompetent because he absolutely deserves our respect but to me, that's certainly not an upward trajectory at all. Put it with the two prior losses to Roscommon and Armagh and it's a less flattering picture overall. It's just my opinion now, but I think we weren't going forward under him any more and it was time for a change, and again it's subjective and nothing personal against him but based on his league record too, I couldn't really see him doing much in Division 1 this year either based on his record in big games, league or championship. You'll disagree of course and that's fine. As I'm typing I'm recalling our previous debate!
Mattie of course has not covered himself in glory but after managing a respectable showing in trying circumstances in his first few months at intercounty, in Division 1 among the sharks, while not overly giving him 'credit' as such I
am saying let's give him these qualifiers and next year's league, free of the spectre of his predecessor, and then see where we are at. If he messes it up down the line, Terry is available and wants to come back with fresh ideas and the players aren't likely to suffer from 'same-voice' syndrome in the dressing room, I'd have no problem with that.