Wembley tickets set to go on sale in May
Tickets for the NFL regular season game at Wembley between the Miami Dolphins and New York Giants will go on sale on May 16 to the lucky ones among those who have registered to buy seats for the historic occasion.
Within 72 hours of the NFL announcing the first competitive game to be played outside of North America, nfluk.com received requests for more than half a million tickets to its special registration site.
Next week, an email will be sent out to registrants, confirming details of the on-sale date and procedure.
Prior to May 16, the first group of registrants to get lucky in the lottery for tickets will receive a further email giving them details of the next steps they have to take. Notification will include details on pricing and how many tickets individual applicants are able to buy.
Alistair Kirkwood, managing director of NFL UK, explained: "It is taking time for us to move this process forward, partly because we want everything to run as smoothly as possible. Beyond the May 16 offer there will be further opportunities to buy tickets so don't despair if you are not among the first group to be given the chance to purchase."
The link :- http://www.nfluk.com/news-display.php?id=2444
If they painted a wall and we where all let watch it dry it would be more exciting than this
Well that's your opinion
Millions around the world would beg to differ with it
af is one of the worlds greatest games gnevin. get a rule book and enjoy - that will be some occasion....
That's about it all right - reading a rulebook would be more enjoyable. (Jays I'm backing up a Dub!)
Quote from: magickingdom on April 30, 2007, 02:26:14 PM
af is one of the worlds greatest games gnevin. get a rule book and enjoy - that will be some occasion....
I've watched 2 super bowls, any game in which take over 4 hours to play 1 hour is just to damn slow
Not really fair to be invading your thread lads, but why do they call it football?
Why do they call Gaelic Football 'football'? There's almost as much kicking in the American variety now. And I'd bet if you understood the game, you'd enjoy it.
You apply for tickets AZ?
Quote from: Gnevin on April 30, 2007, 02:05:31 PM
If they painted a wall and we where all let watch it dry it would be more exciting than this
I have to agree with the Dub on this one
You have a point there AZ, about the handpassing. I just find it incredibly boring watching what's essentially a series of committee meetings at which they always decide to do the same thing – "OK, go out there and find someone to collide with".
I'm just having a bit of crack. I do understand the game – I spent enough time in the States to get at good handle on it. I just don't like it and it bores me. Sorry about that, but I can't force myself to like it.
Lads - if you are so bored by it - why bother coming into the thread at all then?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 30, 2007, 03:04:29 PM
Lads - if you are so bored by it - why bother coming into the thread at all then?
That should be obvious because we are even more bored in work ;D
Good question Gabriel. I don't know, to be honest - just wandered in here.
Maybe it's that this thread is way less boring than an American Football match. :P
Sorry i'll leave now enjoy yer thread lads :-[
Great game to watch on tv. No so sure about being actually at the game. No replays, hard to see what is actually going on other than a heap of lads running into each other. I've been to quiet a few.
Ticket for the game in wembley out very soon - got the following mail from NFLUK.
Dear NFL fan,
The moment you have been waiting for is almost here! Tickets will go on sale to those who submitted ticket requests via the nfllondon2007 website on 16th May 2007.
Back in February you requested to buy tickets for the historic first NFL game to be played outside of North America at Wembley Stadium on October 28 between the Miami Dolphins and New York Giants.
As you may have read on nfluk.com, the response was overwhelming, with more than 500,000 ticket requests in just 72 hours. Since then we have been working hard on ensuring that we can get as many of you into the stadium as possible.
Obviously we cannot satisfy this incredible demand, but since you registered your interest in purchasing tickets you are in the queue. Look out for an email and a letter that will be sent in a few days time revealing if you are one of those lucky enough to be able to purchase tickets, and how to go about doing so.
These tickets will be sold on a first-come, first-served basis, and therefore we cannot guarantee that you will be able to buy your tickets in the price category that you had previously indicated.
You will shortly receive an email to the email address you registered your ticket interest with (or the one that you requested to be updated to) explaining how you will make your purchase. This email will come from our official ticket partner for the game – Ticketmaster.
Should you for any reason miss the email from Ticketmaster, you will also receive a letter explaining the procedure for buying tickets.
Good luck buying your tickets – be sure to go online and make your purchase as early as possible to avoid disappointment.
We look forward to seeing you at Wembley.
Thanks,
nfluk
Not happy, what was the point of all the pre-registration crap if they were just going to have a free-for-all on ticketmaster?
Dead right SammyG - surely to God the right way of doing it was to give a max allocation of 4 to each NFLUK member and dispense tickets on a first come first served basis til the 80,000 odd tickets were allocated. If there were any not taken up, these could be dispensed on-line later.
Sure theres shag all chance of getting a ticket now!
Dolphin and Giants fans in america will have to get an allocation, with 500,000 requests how do you decide to allocate tickets. thats why they're donig a lottery for people who are registered. I think its a reasonable way of doing, hopefully the tickets will get end up in the hands of real fans this way.
Dunno, your probably right Juice but if the purpose of having the game in London was to promote the NFL in Europe, you would hope the allocation to the US fans would be moderate enough so as to give as many people on this side of the water a chance to experience the NFL live.
It just seems that those registered on the NFLUK website prior to announcing the game have proven themselves to be genuine fans and should not lose out on a ticket because some lad tuned in one Sunday night and heard about the game and said 'feck it sure ill throw my name in' in the hope that he gets a ticket.
Quote from: thejuice on May 08, 2007, 09:31:35 PM
Dolphin and Giants fans in america will have to get an allocation, with 500,000 requests how do you decide to allocate tickets. thats why they're donig a lottery for people who are registered. I think its a reasonable way of doing, hopefully the tickets will get end up in the hands of real fans this way.
They're not doing a lottery, that's the problem. They're selling the tickets first come first served on ticketmaster, which means that they'll go to the touts and ticket agencies and be straight onto Ebay for huge profit. >:(
I would not take the gift of a ticket, I live 4 miles from the most storied stadium in the USA and I get offered tickets all the time through the aul job and unless they are in the corporate box with free drink and food i decline and even then I go to about one game every two years. Give me a Harps U12 league match in Abbey Park anyday. :'(
so does that mean that being registered with NFLUK isnt worth a damn. well thats a load of shite
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2007, 01:06:39 AM
I would not take the gift of a ticket, I live 4 miles from the most storied stadium in the USA and I get offered tickets all the time through the aul job and unless they are in the corporate box with free drink and food i decline and even then I go to about one game every two years. Give me a Harps U12 league match in Abbey Park anyday. :'(
I don't blame you Stew, who would want to see the Packers unless the Bears are beating up on them ;)
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 09, 2007, 07:05:36 AM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2007, 01:06:39 AM
I would not take the gift of a ticket, I live 4 miles from the most storied stadium in the USA and I get offered tickets all the time through the aul job and unless they are in the corporate box with free drink and food i decline and even then I go to about one game every two years. Give me a Harps U12 league match in Abbey Park anyday. :'(
I don't blame you Stew, who would want to see the Packers unless the Bears are beating up on them ;)
I used to live in Salem MA so i have always followed the pats, I have been in Foxboro twice but the atmosphere is far better at lambeau, that said if i never went to another game i couldnt care less, it is hard to watch.
But its f**king great craic to play. ;D
Ye should give it a go.
www.iafl.org
or
www.iafs.co.uk
The NFL issued letters to all people who are to take part in the initial release of tickets.
Not everyone who got the email on Tuesday is illegible for the raffle next Wednesday.
The letter contained a password and a link to the ticket master site.
Only one Irish person said they have received a letter - guess the rest of us must check the post when we go home.....
Anyone heard anything from this shower? I'm losing hope....
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 11, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
Anyone heard anything from this shower? I'm losing hope....
Got a password letter yesterday, ;D ;D ;D ;D not that I'm gloatingor anything. ;) Still doesn't guarantee tickets but it's better than not having one.
If I read it right Sammy, the password letter does as good as guarantee you tickets. You just have to make sure you get on to ticketmaster reasonably early on the 16th. Jammy git :D
Well done SammyG - yod did well to get a letter.
If you don't mind me asking are you based in the Republic, from reading the forum on nfluk I didn't see anyone outside the UK getting a letter.
I'm presuming you didn't get one either AZ.
Some on the NFLUK forum board got letters this morning as well so all is not lost.
Quote from: SuperDooperCooper on May 11, 2007, 10:21:29 AM
Well done SammyG - yod did well to get a letter.
If you don't mind me asking are you based in the Republic, from reading the forum on nfluk I didn't see anyone outside the UK getting a letter.
I'm presuming you didn't get one either AZ.
Some on the NFLUK forum board got letters this morning as well so all is not lost.
Currently based in the south of England, don't know how they decided but as you say it looks like UK based applications have got most (if not all).
Best of luck to everyone in getting the tickets
Just after reading NFLUK forum that people in the Republic have got the letter at well today.
Hopefully those of us that want to go will have a letter from the UK waiting for us when we get home :)
I didn't hear anything from home. Sh1te. I was looking forward to that as well.
Wahoo. Got my letter in the post. Hopefully no hiccups with ticketmaster now!!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 11, 2007, 03:53:15 PM
Wahoo. Got my letter in the post. Hopefully no hiccups with ticketmaster now!!!
Excellent, must try and see you for a pint, if we both get tickets.
No bother Sammy. I'm looking at flights now. A weekend in London and a trip to Wembly to watch the NFL. What could be better? :D
News good for me as well - I've got the letter as well. :)
Didn't get a letter, but just got an email saying I can (try to) get two tickets. The flights and hotel have been booked since the game was announced, so thank God it might work out
No letter, :(.
might travel to the World Bowl in Frankfurt on 23rd of June, but thats really a bronze medal in comparison to the Wembly game!!
2 tickets for myself, get in
How much do you want for them ;D
So if i havent got a letter by today im fucked?
Don't forget today is the day if you have your letter/email. Of course ticketmaster have had 'unforseen' difficulties and it's put back to 11am.
Good luck
Yee-Haw. 2 £65 tickets purchased on ticketmaster. Good stuff. Everyone else sorted?
I take it some of these tickets will make it to ebay, i didnt get letter/email.
I think there's another round of general sales Syd, once they figure out how many people don't take up the initial offer. Like the CAO :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2007, 11:02:39 AM
Yee-Haw. 2 £65 tickets purchased on ticketmaster. Good stuff. Everyone else sorted?
Still in the ticketmaster queue. >:( It told me 6 minutes then went up to 11 and now it's back down to 5.
Stick in there Sammy. Tiocfaidh do lá :)
Two £55 tickets towards the corner of one of the endzones. Happy, happy days ;D
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2007, 11:05:48 AM
I think there's another round of general sales Syd, once they figure out how many people don't take up the initial offer. Like the CAO :D
So Syd hasnt been defeated yet??
Not yet Syd.
Good news for me as well AZ - in section 117 which is in the corner.
Ticketmaster some shower of Greedy Bastards though - Service change of £5.80 per ticket then a postal charge of £4.95 per ticket.
I went in via Ticketmaster.ie and had no wait.
Hang in there SammyG.......
Syd there will be further releases of tickets - follow the forum on the london website www.nfllondon2007.com.
I'm in the same section SDC. 117 as well.
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssss
Got two tickets in Block 538.
Good man Sammy - we must all try and meet upo I reckon.
Anyone been to wembley before? any Suggestions?
good man Sammy. Happy Days all around??
See all the dicks on Ebay selling their tickets? W*nkers. At huge prices. 'Selling because they can't be used' WHY QUEUE FOR TICKETMASTER THEN??? Lying Dicks. 'Selling due to 'accidental double purchase''. Yeah right.
I hate that Sh1te. I hope NFL are monitoring Ebay, and can trace these tickets.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2007, 02:52:25 PM
See all the dicks on Ebay selling their tickets? W*nkers. At huge prices. 'Selling because they can't be used' WHY QUEUE FOR TICKETMASTER THEN??? Lying Dicks. 'Selling due to 'accidental double purchase''. Yeah right.
I hate that Sh1te. I hope NFL are monitoring Ebay, and can trace these tickets.
Unfortunately I'm not sure there's much they can do. Ticket touting isn't illegal on the UK as long as you quote the original price, to the buyer (except on football/soccer tickets). Ebay sometimes take auctions down, unilaterally, but usually only when it's a charity event.
Do you read the forum over on NFLUK.com? Some of them lads are going bananas. I hate to see lads really wanting tickets, only for flutes like that to come on and get them. And the lying is very hard to stomach. 'Accidental Double Purchase??'. Pr1ck.
I might try Ebay if all else fails but i would imagine due to the demand the prices will be extortionate.
Nothing for me :'(
Theres still hope for me to get a ticket. Hope no-one here put there tickets on e-bay
NFL takes action against eBay sellers
The intention from the original announcement of the game at Wembley between the Miami Dolphins and New York Giants was for the stadium to be filled with genuine NFL fans to ensure that the atmosphere at the game replicated exactly that of a regular season fixture in the USA.
"We set up the pre-registration in February, the random lottery, and the passcode system to try to ensure that this was a secure sale that stopped tickets being re-sold through the secondary market," said NFL UK Managing Director Alistair Kirkwood.
"Clearly some people have slipped through the net, but we have a system in place to ensure that they will not be able to benefit from selling on tickets to our game at a vastly inflated price. The Ticketmaster purchase terms and conditions clearly state that tickets cannot be resold, and we are within our rights to withdraw all these tickets and reissue them at a later date."
Therefore, all people who have attempted to sell tickets on eBay have had their tickets withdrawn from sale, and those seats will be resold in a future ticket sales period.
Although the illegal eBay sellers will be reimbursed for their ticket purchases, they will be removed from the ticket registry of interest, and will not be eligible to buy more tickets for this game in the second batch of sales that will take place in June.
Additionally, those people that have placed some tickets on eBay but intended to use a further part of their allocation personally will have their entire ticket allocation cancelled, and will not be able to attend the game.
The resale of these tickets will take place in June at the same time as the second batch of tickets going on sale to those people who registered their interest in February. The same policy will be in effect among that second set of tickets, and if any of them appear on eBay they will also be withdrawn from sale and resold to genuine NFL fans at face value.
Fair play to the NFL for that
yeah i saw a few on e-bay going for £800 for 4 tickets. Its something i'd never do is spend that kind of money on something like that. Remember some lad forked out €1000 for tickets to the Galway-Cork hurling final. Madness
Well Lads,
Who got tickets? I'm in 117, meself and de brudder. I'll probably head on over on Saturday morning and try and catch a soccer match on the Saturday. Home Monday afternoon then. Bank holiday weekend and all.
So who else is going?
anyone been to the new wembly and whats it like in comparsion to the old one? watched eng v brazil the other night and it looked fantastic. i know your in the south of england sammy did you go?
Quote from: magickingdom on June 08, 2007, 11:08:36 AM
anyone been to the new wembly and whats it like in comparsion to the old one? watched eng v brazil the other night and it looked fantastic. i know your in the south of england sammy did you go?
If Engerlund where playing in my back garden I'd close the curtains. ;)
Haven't been into the new Wembley but it looks class from the outside, the arch is fecking huge.
QuoteIf Engerlund where playing in my back garden I'd close the curtains.
Haven't been into the new Wembley but it looks class from the outside, the arch is fecking huge.
Ha Ha :D the arch makes it, looked really impressive on the telly. was in the old wembly years ago and it was some stadium so i hope the new one lives up to that. would have been nice if they could have kept the wembly towers tho..
More tickets to be released from http://www.nfluk.com/news-display.php?id=2479 (http://www.nfluk.com/news-display.php?id=2479)
QuoteMore Wembley tickets to go on sale
The NFL will release the second batch of tickets to go on sale for the regular season game between the Miami Dolphins and New York Giants on Thursday June 28th – exactly four months before the big match takes place at Wembley Stadium.
Tickets will be available from 10:00 a.m. BST on Thursday June 28th to the winners of a lottery held among fans who registered an interest on nfluk.com when the game was first announced in February.
The second batch of tickets will be released and distributed in the same manner as the first. All people who registered their interest – except for those who bought tickets in the first group – will be re-entered into the lottery. Those who are lucky enough to be selected to buy tickets from this second lottery will receive an email within seven days of the sale date with a password which they will then be able to use on the Ticketmaster website on the morning of Thursday June 28th. For this sale the only correspondence will be via email – there will be no letters sent out.
The NFL and Ticketmaster have worked to address the teething problems that a handful of people encountered with the first batch of tickets.
The tickets for nfluk.com lottery winners will be on sale until 10:00 p.m. BST on Sunday July 1st but only on a first-come, first-served basis. There will be more applicants than seats available, so please purchase early to avoid disappointment. In the first sale 40,000 tickets went in 90 minutes, so those lucky enough to get the chance to buy tickets are advised to be online ready to buy their tickets on time.
As with the first sale, any tickets from this sale that are found to be on eBay or similar ticket touting websites will have their sale cancelled, and made available to genuine fans at a later date.
There will be another opportunity to purchase tickets in the coming months for those people who miss out in this sale.
Good stuff, dont fancy the odds though !
Dolphins going to suck this year ,Culpepper walked out of camp,new head coach as well.Giants won'tbe great either imo
Quote from: bugs bunny on June 10, 2007, 09:12:35 PM
Dolphins going to suck this year ,Culpepper walked out of camp,new head coach as well.Giants won'tbe great either imo
In light of this news, does anyone want to sell me their wembly ticket ;D
Ryanair have (finally) posted their flight from after Oct 27 on their site.
So people can now book the return flight via Ryanair - I booked London Gatwick to Shannon for just over €100.
Roll on the game........
When are you returning SDC? I'm looking at it now, and it's €14.99 to fly there pp, but €149 to fly back on Monday??
Emm. Never Mind. For anyone who's interested, you can fly from Gatwick to Shannon for €149 on the 29th of June :D
Flying out on Saturday and returning on Monday.
I booked the flight out aged ago at .01c and booked the flight back (a a single trip) an hour ago for £76 (roughly €114).
Try the single trip option.
I got an email today that i will be getting a chance to buy tickets next Thursday ;D ;D, what are my chances?
Quote from: Syd on June 21, 2007, 09:59:59 PM
I got an email today that i will be getting a chance to buy tickets next Thursday ;D ;D, what are my chances?
If you got the email, then you should have a decent chance. Just make sure you log on early.
Quote from: SammyG on June 21, 2007, 10:05:08 PM
Quote from: Syd on June 21, 2007, 09:59:59 PM
I got an email today that i will be getting a chance to buy tickets next Thursday ;D ;D, what are my chances?
If you got the email, then you should have a decent chance. Just make sure you log on early.
I remember trying to buy U2 tickets and the f**ker kept crashing due to demand, hope i get a clear run at it.
Get in early Syd, as Sammy says. And whatever you do, don't go 'searching again' for different tickets. Take the first ones you are offered.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 21, 2007, 10:12:15 PM
Get in early Syd, as Sammy says. And whatever you do, don't go 'searching again' for different tickets. Take the first ones you are offered.
Cheers, its the day after payday too ;)
Hi lads
I managed to get my tickets for this, get on if ye can
Sorted Also. Should be a laugh.
Good stuff Turk. I booked the flights yesterday as well. I'm heading over Saturday morning. I might try and catch an auld soccer game in Lahdahn while I'm around.
Balboa is Wembley bound..........Flights booked
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 28, 2007, 10:37:23 AM
Good stuff Turk. I booked the flights yesterday as well. I'm heading over Saturday morning. I might try and catch an auld soccer game in Lahdahn while I'm around.
Excellent stuff, Lummox squad are back on tour!!
Whats the craic with NFL tracing tickets on ebay, there are some on at the minute, 2 for £700 still 5 days bidding left. I got 4 today but may put two of mine on, pay for the weekend in London and then some.....
There were a load put on after the first sale but they disappeared fairly quickly. According to the NFL they traced every ticket put on ebay to people who had registered for them on the NFL London site then cancelled all of those peoples tickets, even ones they didn't put on ebay.
If they did do it before I'd imagine they'll try it again
AAAHHHH!! I hate you all, I got no ticket.
Yeah NFL are removing any tickets they find on e-bay. Theres a report about it earlier in this thread.
Well If anyone has a spare ticket please, please, please, please, please let me know by PM. Please.
Jaysus, I nearly forgot about this!! Wouldn't I have felt quare stupid to have got the email and not bought the tickets.....
Anyhoo, we are game ball. Gonna be some amount of Carroll Cuisine jerseys in the crowd by the sound of things.....
The neighbor is a Dolphin season ticket holder. He tried to get tickets for me but the cute Dolphin ticket office said he could only pick the tickets up when he got to London and then only after producing his passport, so that avenue is out now.
Quote from: thejuice on June 28, 2007, 04:19:43 PM
AAAHHHH!! I hate you all, I got no ticket.
Yeah NFL are removing any tickets they find on e-bay. Theres a report about it earlier in this thread.
Well If anyone has a spare ticket please, please, please, please, please let me know by PM. Please.
Did you not get the email or were you not able to get any today? How can they trace them on ebay? I dont know much about ebay but surely you just say you have 2 NFL tickets for sale.......
Quote from: Balboa on June 28, 2007, 08:30:39 PM
How can they trace them on ebay? I dont know much about ebay but surely you just say you have 2 NFL tickets for sale.......
If you don't put up a picture no-one will believe you have them. If you do put up a picture the tickets will be cancelled.
Probably best you don't go down the road too much lad - you're on a GAA board, heavily populated by Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone lads many of whom had wojious grief getting tickets for All Ireland finals in recent years and you're talking about touting. I don't know if you were actually thinking about it or not, but your line of questioning suggests that you were. Go if you want to go, sell the tickets to someone who does at whatever they cost you if you don't.
Quote from: Lone Shark on June 28, 2007, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: Balboa on June 28, 2007, 08:30:39 PM
How can they trace them on ebay? I dont know much about ebay but surely you just say you have 2 NFL tickets for sale.......
If you don't put up a picture no-one will believe you have them. If you do put up a picture the tickets will be cancelled.
Probably best you don't go down the road too much lad - you're on a GAA board, heavily populated by Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone lads many of whom had wojious grief getting tickets for All Ireland finals in recent years and you're talking about touting. I don't know if you were actually thinking about it or not, but your line of questioning suggests that you were. Go if you want to go, sell the tickets to someone who does at whatever they cost you if you don't.
You're showing Balboa no respect!! He's Wembley bound!!
Quote from: turk on June 29, 2007, 08:55:35 AM
Quote from: Lone Shark on June 28, 2007, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: Balboa on June 28, 2007, 08:30:39 PM
How can they trace them on ebay? I dont know much about ebay but surely you just say you have 2 NFL tickets for sale.......
If you don't put up a picture no-one will believe you have them. If you do put up a picture the tickets will be cancelled.
Probably best you don't go down the road too much lad - you're on a GAA board, heavily populated by Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone lads many of whom had wojious grief getting tickets for All Ireland finals in recent years and you're talking about touting. I don't know if you were actually thinking about it or not, but your line of questioning suggests that you were. Go if you want to go, sell the tickets to someone who does at whatever they cost you if you don't.
You're showing Balboa no respect!! He's Wembley bound!!
I am going with the missus ( she is a lucky lady) but bought four, i am toying with shifting the other 2 on ebay or a similar place,i have two friends of my brothers living in London that are interested in them and i may sell them to them at face value if ebay is too risky, nothing wrong with trying to make a few quid...........
How about thejuice above? Don't sell them on Ebay man. I hate touts. Sell them at face value to someone who would like to go.
Balboa if you have spare tickets PM the juice and sell it at face value. What goes around comes around.
Touts are the scum of the earth who make getting tickets difficult for everyone.
Thankfully I have only had one experience of touts (paying £60 for a £30 ticket to see Liverpool).
Any true sports fan would rather give the ticket at face value 'cos we have all looked for tickets ourselves.
If Kerry were in an All-Ireland final I would pay a tout to get a ticket but I would make damb sure afterwards I knew who the ticket was issued to by contacting the paper with it.
The takings would pay for the weekend in London however there is definitely something happening on ebay as there are only 10 pairs of tickets for sale when you'd normally expect pages of them for such a high demand event.
Quote from: Balboa on June 29, 2007, 01:51:21 PM
nothing wrong with trying to make a few quid...........
Depends on how you're making it. You could hardly called that earned. Do the decent thing, whether it be to your brother or whoever. It'll come back to you someday when you need a ticket for something yourself.
Well my brothers two mates get first crack if i dont go down the "tout" road, i know youse may think i will burn in hell but i will bear The Juice in mind if they are not interested.