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With the gardai nowhere to be seen

What about SF/CIRA?

Ridiculous thread, very poor taste.

Impossible task for the ordinary guards on the street. Did u ever see anything like the show the top brass of the GS put up on Saturday. Now that was "disgusting", Martin Callinan. Enda Kenny trying to score political points. The justice system letting these boys out. The lad bailed for a 3m find didn't even think he'd get bail, had to run out the door, no one waiting for him.  We need a Dirty Harry/ Charles Bronson type to sort this sh!t out. The Kieran Boylan link is very worrying and nothing has been done about it. Callinan retired on full pension. Much like Patrick Neary, these lads are never held accountable.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/kieran-boylan/

http://utv.ie/News/2015/10/30/Man-bailed-over-Tallaght-drugs-and-weapons-cache-47946

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 12:44:14 PM
With the gardai nowhere to be seen

The gardai did a great job in Limerick, what can they do with dickheads like this, other than what they tried to do in Limerick? To be honest I'd nearly lock them all, every seed and breed of them, in Spike Island, and when a winner emerged, lock them up for life in the Joy.

By the way, Is there any credibility that the Contos actually did this? Are they aligned with one of the gangs? It seems very convenient coming up to an election that the establishment parties have another stick to wave at Sinn Fein.

By the way, Sinn Fein wanting to remove the Special Criminal Courts before an election is one of the daftest political statements ever. Who does their PR?

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:27:41 PM
By the way, Is there any credibility that the Contos actually did this? Are they aligned with one of the gangs? It seems very convenient coming up to an election that the establishment parties have another stick to wave at Sinn Fein.

By the way, Sinn Fein wanting to remove the Special Criminal Courts before an election is one of the daftest political statements ever. Who does their PR?

I wouldn't agree with it either but do-gooders like Amnesty and Mary Robinson agree with Sinn Fein on this.

Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2016, 01:32:46 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:27:41 PM
By the way, Is there any credibility that the Contos actually did this? Are they aligned with one of the gangs? It seems very convenient coming up to an election that the establishment parties have another stick to wave at Sinn Fein.

By the way, Sinn Fein wanting to remove the Special Criminal Courts before an election is one of the daftest political statements ever. Who does their PR?

I wouldn't agree with it either but do-gooders like Amnesty and Mary Robinson agree with Sinn Fein on this.

I know they do. But it seems common sense to me that if you cannot guarantee the safety of the jury or witnesses, then it has to be in a closed court, with a judge presiding.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:25:25 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 12:44:14 PM
With the gardai nowhere to be seen

The gardai did a great job in Limerick, what can they do with d**kheads like this, other than what they tried to do in Limerick? To be honest I'd nearly lock them all, every seed and breed of them, in Spike Island, and when a winner emerged, lock them up for life in the Joy.

What did they do in Limerick? Wasn't it after those kids burned to death in that car that the public got sick of the gangs ?

Middleclass drug consumption is the reason the gangs exist

Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2016, 12:47:02 PM
Ridiculous thread, very poor taste.

But maybe us discussing it here might filter down to the foot soldiers, who will then realise the folly of their ways?

They sent in the ERU and basically broke up the gangs that were there. The public were sick of the gangs long before that tragic incident. There are dozens of gang figures from Limerick now in jail long term, because of work the Guards did.

In fact there is now a new threat down here, because nature abhors a vacuum, and stupid people keep buying Cannabis and Cocaine without worrying about how it gets to them. A new young lad in his mid 20s is supposed to be after taking over down here, simply because the old guard have been taken out.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:34:01 PM

Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2016, 01:32:46 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:27:41 PM
By the way, Is there any credibility that the Contos actually did this? Are they aligned with one of the gangs? It seems very convenient coming up to an election that the establishment parties have another stick to wave at Sinn Fein.

By the way, Sinn Fein wanting to remove the Special Criminal Courts before an election is one of the daftest political statements ever. Who does their PR?

I wouldn't agree with it either but do-gooders like Amnesty and Mary Robinson agree with Sinn Fein on this.

I know they do. But it seems common sense to me that if you cannot guarantee the safety of the jury or witnesses, then it has to be in a closed court, with a judge presiding.

Sinn Fein's and Amnesty's motives would be different. Amnesty are afraid that any hint of wrong-doing by guards might be ignored by the judges but not by jury. It can be abused, all u need to do is look at what happened to McBrearty and the Boylan case. Very little scrutiny given to the actions of Guards in this country. The attempts to silence the whistleblowers and to discredit GSOC would lead you to believe they have plenty to hide.

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 01:40:47 PM
Middleclass drug consumption is the reason the gangs exist

+1.
The same well heeled cnuts who keep giving out about criminality/gangs etc.

As per usual, Kenny's making himself look like a total twat over the whole affair.

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 01:40:47 PM
Middleclass drug consumption is the reason the gangs exist

Correct and right. But no matter how often you say that, people don't seem to understand. Supply and Demand. If there's no demand, the supply would dry up.

Quote from: Franko on February 09, 2016, 01:58:44 PM
As per usual, Kenny's making himself look like a total twat over the whole affair.

He does that when he gets up the morning.

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 01:40:47 PM
Middleclass drug consumption is the reason the gangs exist

???

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:34:01 PM

Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2016, 01:32:46 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:27:41 PM
By the way, Is there any credibility that the Contos actually did this? Are they aligned with one of the gangs? It seems very convenient coming up to an election that the establishment parties have another stick to wave at Sinn Fein.

By the way, Sinn Fein wanting to remove the Special Criminal Courts before an election is one of the daftest political statements ever. Who does their PR?

I wouldn't agree with it either but do-gooders like Amnesty and Mary Robinson agree with Sinn Fein on this.

I know they do. But it seems common sense to me that if you cannot guarantee the safety of the jury or witnesses, then it has to be in a closed court, with a judge presiding.

Video links would be the obvious solution I would have thought.

Legalising cannabis would take it out of the gangs as well and though it was never my thing I can't se how using that is worse than drink.

Didn't the American's nullify the Mafia through changing some of the laws, so why can't we bring in special laws to deal with organised crime like they did?

Quote from: Franko on February 09, 2016, 01:58:44 PM
As per usual, Kenny's making himself look like a total twat over the whole affair.

PS.

Before I'm accused of being a 'cheerleader for SF' or some such, (the standard response to criticism of Kenny seems to be to say something bad, point at Gerry Adams and accuse the poster of being a SF lackey) the proposal to abolish the SCC is nonsensical IMO.

That's the prohibition argument Zulu, and I can understand the logic also. However, I would never be in favour of inherently destructive drugs like cocaine and heroin being legalised. Is legalising Cannabis just exposing (potentially) a wider user base to the possibility of moving onto the next drug after a while.

The only reason the "next drug" concept exists is because all these supposedly progressively linked drugs have in common is that they're illegal. There is no reason in the world that using cannabis would predispose one to experiment with cocaine or heroin.

Nobody says alcohol use should be criminalised because it exposes a wider user base to the possibility of moving on to nicotine*.

*By far the most deadly drug.

Quote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2016, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 01:40:47 PM
Middleclass drug consumption is the reason the gangs exist

+1.
The same well heeled cnuts who keep giving out about criminality/gangs etc.

Have either of you got any stats to back this up?  If not, I'm gonna call bullshit.

I'd guess that there's as many of these drugs end up in inner-city slums as do in middle-class suburbia but in the absence of any evidence I'm not gonna make bold statements.

Don't think there is any scientific evidence to support the link between cannabis and harder drugs. There's hundreds of thousands of social cannabis users in the world and plenty of them never use harder drugs. I'm sure plenty do too but then plenty of drinkers use hard drugs too so I don't think you cannily cannabis to harder drugs.

I wouldn't have strong views on legalising drugs but I would put every repeat violent criminal in a shallow grave and cover over in the morning.

Are the hutches involved in drug dealing ?
I remember reading one of Paul Williams books who stated that gerry hutch was anti drugs

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
The only reason the "next drug" concept exists is because all these supposedly progressively linked drugs have in common is that they're illegal. There is no reason in the world that using cannabis would predispose one to experiment with cocaine or heroin.

Nobody says alcohol use should be criminalised because it exposes a wider user base to the possibility of moving on to nicotine*.

*By far the most deadly drug.

is that true Hardy? Does the 'buzz' not get weaker after a while, and people want to try something else, be that LSD, cocaine or whatever?  This is from the Guardian, and certainly would suggest a link, however tenuous, in that most hard drug users would have experimented with Cannabis first, although obviously not all cannabis users go onto the harder stuff. They do suggest it is unusual for a drug user to jump straight into hard drugs.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug (https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug)

I picked a good time to start watchin me box set of Love/Hate methinks;

that's about all I have to say on the subject

Why is it all blowing up now?  It is like Romeo and Juliet

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 02:41:28 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
The only reason the "next drug" concept exists is because all these supposedly progressively linked drugs have in common is that they're illegal. There is no reason in the world that using cannabis would predispose one to experiment with cocaine or heroin.

Nobody says alcohol use should be criminalised because it exposes a wider user base to the possibility of moving on to nicotine*.

*By far the most deadly drug.

is that true Hardy? Does the 'buzz' not get weaker after a while, and people want to try something else, be that LSD, cocaine or whatever?  This is from the Guardian, and certainly would suggest a link, however tenuous, in that most hard drug users would have experimented with Cannabis first, although obviously not all cannabis users go onto the harder stuff. They do suggest it is unusual for a drug user to jump straight into hard drugs.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug (https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug)

I don't think there's any "buzz" related connection between cannabis and hard drugs. I don't think the effects of cannabis are  at all similar to those of the harder drugs, which, in turn, are not similar to each other.

People who take drugs of any kind are probably more likely to try drugs of other kinds. I'm not looking it up now, but I'm sure I've read that there are far fewer non-drinking smokers than smokers who drink. I think the only gateway effect is the psychological gateway between legal and illegal drugs. And I think that exists more in the minds of commentators and observers than it does in those of users of drugs.

You never hear anyone saying cocaine is a gateway drug for heroin, for instance. More to the point, you'll probably find that a very, very large percentage of cocaine users will have smoked nicotine and drunk alcohol before using cocaine. But nobody says alcohol is a gateway drug for cocaine. Why? Only because it's not illegal to take alcohol.

So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I suppose disposable income is highly correlated to drug use.

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 03:13:05 PM
I suppose disposable income is highly correlated to drug use.

To a certain class of drug user I suppose. The cocaine on the seat of the mens jacks in Club M kind of user.

But addicts tend not to have a pile of disposable income. They just rob to feed the habit.

If Cocaine or Heroin is the destination, there's a million different ways to get there. Tenuous links at best between the average user of cannabis spring boarding onto heroin because the buzz got weaker. The buzz doesn't get weaker by the way, to quote Louis CK, they've been working on cannabis like its a potential cure for cancer and it's a much more potent and powerful plant now than 10,20,30 years ago. Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

Granted there are most definitely addicts who started with pot as every addict of every kind started somewhere. The gambling addict needed some way to place their first bet. The alcoholic had their first drink. Cocaine is very much a party drug. I've been more exposed to Cocaine in a party scene where speed and ecstasy were present as opposed to being exposed to cocaine by pot smoking types.

Legalizing cannabis won't widen the gateway any further than criminalizing it has kept they gateway shut.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

Quote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2016, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 01:40:47 PM
Middleclass drug consumption is the reason the gangs exist

+1.
The same well heeled cnuts who keep giving out about criminality/gangs etc.

I think we've found our Harry Callaghan/Paul Kersey. If +1's were bullets then Rossfan would be spraying like a mofo.They can make a film when it all kicks off. Rossfan stars as Travis Prickle in "Ambulance Driver", ...."u talkin to me?"

Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:20:29 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Escalating in dosage of the substance is different than changing substances, which was the original argument unless I mis read it.

Not sure how I've added to perception, or what perception?

The perception that going from drink to cocaine is not a natural sounding gateway, whereas cannabis to cocaine is a more natural 'sounding' escalation.

Quote from: tv pundit on February 09, 2016, 02:29:33 PM
Are the hutches involved in drug dealing ?
I remember reading one of Paul Williams books who stated that gerry hutch was anti drugs

according to the Indo Gerry Hutch was an addict

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:24:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:20:29 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

I'm not sure I understand your argument, AZ, unless you're suggesting that nicotine and alcohol are not drugs?

Quote
If that [cannabis] was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

If cannabis was made legal how would its legal status make people more likely to be curious about cocaine any more than using legal drugs like nicotine and alcohol and caffeine makes them more curious about cocaine? Especially since nicotine and alcohol are far more powerful drugs than cannabis.

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 03:35:55 PM

Quote from: tv pundit on February 09, 2016, 02:29:33 PM
Are the hutches involved in drug dealing ?
I remember reading one of Paul Williams books who stated that gerry hutch was anti drugs

according to the Indo Gerry Hutch was an addict

According to the Indo, they interviewed Bishop Eamon Casey in South America.  Actually INTERVIEWED him and they ran the story with quotes on the front page.

Never happened.

Last weekend proved that booking hotels in Dublin on the wrong weekend has both plus and minus points!😅

What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:50:36 PM
What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

No country's pro boxing seems to be controlled by any Sports Council otherwise there wouldnt even be a question like arose over one of Pacmans fights about the drug testing etc it would be mandatory.

Also it does seem to attract the scummiest of elements - Tyson Fury being a good example.

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:36:30 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:24:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:20:29 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

I'm not sure I understand your argument, AZ, unless you're suggesting that nicotine and alcohol are not drugs?

Quote
If that [cannabis] was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

If cannabis was made legal how would its legal status make people more likely to be curious about cocaine any more than using legal drugs like nicotine and alcohol and caffeine makes them more curious about cocaine? Especially since nicotine and alcohol are far more powerful drugs than cannabis.

I suppose what I'm saying is that recreational drug use, in the form of cannabis, is certainly seen as 'different' to alcohol and nicotine. Cannabis would be seen in a similar light as cocaine, but cocaine would be seen as a bit more edgy. Heroin then is probably a different animal.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that if we normalise cannabis, would we be opening up an avenue for more people to be interested in the edgier drugs like cocaine and LSD.

I'm probably talking bullshite, and am happy to admit that, but I would be uneasy at best without some sort of certitude that you are not opening Pandora's box, probably because I don't understand it.

Quote from: NAG1 on February 09, 2016, 03:53:35 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:50:36 PM
What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

No country's pro boxing seems to be controlled by any Sports Council otherwise there wouldnt even be a question like arose over one of Pacmans fights about the drug testing etc it would be mandatory.

Also it does seem to attract the scummiest of elements - Tyson Fury being a good example.

Indeed. But I understand that pro boxing events have to be licensed. Who licenses Irish events and what is the legal status of the license? There surely has to be some official, state level oversight if there's licensing involved?

QuoteI suppose what I'm saying is that recreational drug use, in the form of cannabis, is certainly seen as 'different' to alcohol and nicotine. Cannabis would be seen in a similar light as cocaine, but cocaine would be seen as a bit more edgy. Heroin then is probably a different animal.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that if we normalise cannabis, would we be opening up an avenue for more people to be interested in the edgier drugs like cocaine and LSD.

I wouldn't say the questions are unreasonable - but they don't have the greatest of foundations, outside of anecdote, ignorance, and fear.

I think that cannabis use is viewed by many as "different" to nicotine and alcohol. That is a shame in my opinion and its silly that it is viewed that way in terms of a check box on one side of the law or the other. I disagree that Cannabis would be seen in a similar light to cocaine - but I can understand that there are folks who would think that way. If one was found to be in possession of Marajuana for recreational use Vs a gram of coke - I know which would carry more severe consequences (in the western US states at least). If I failed a drug test at work for Marajuana Vs a drug test for cocaine - the penalty would be much more harsh for the latter.

Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 03:13:05 PM
I suppose disposable income is highly correlated to drug use.

I'd bet that drug addiction and disposable income are inversely correlated.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:30:56 PM
The perception that going from drink to cocaine is not a natural sounding gateway, whereas cannabis to cocaine is a more natural 'sounding' escalation.

imo, these days people are more likely to try cocaine whilst under the influence of booze, I know a fair few folk who like a line of coke but wouldn't dream of smoking joints. They probably wouldn't touch coke either except when they are drunk. Its the new drugs that are more worrying, I see the mess they cause through my work, the legal highs, plant food etc. it would scare the shite out ya the amount of stuff kids are exposed to these days. Not that I am condoning the use of coke or anything.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 01:59:55 PM

Quote from: Franko on February 09, 2016, 01:58:44 PM
As per usual, Kenny's making himself look like a total twat over the whole affair.

He does that when he gets up the morning.

Before deciding what dress to put on...

The dad of the fella who was weighing in at the time, Jamie Kavanagh, was shot dead in Spain a few years ago. Dunno what side he's on.

Don't think it's so much a boxing connection as some of the lads on the boxing scene happen to be connected.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 02:41:28 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
The only reason the "next drug" concept exists is because all these supposedly progressively linked drugs have in common is that they're illegal. There is no reason in the world that using cannabis would predispose one to experiment with cocaine or heroin.

Nobody says alcohol use should be criminalised because it exposes a wider user base to the possibility of moving on to nicotine*.

*By far the most deadly drug.

is that true Hardy? Does the 'buzz' not get weaker after a while, and people want to try something else, be that LSD, cocaine or whatever?  This is from the Guardian, and certainly would suggest a link, however tenuous, in that most hard drug users would have experimented with Cannabis first, although obviously not all cannabis users go onto the harder stuff. They do suggest it is unusual for a drug user to jump straight into hard drugs.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug (https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug)

Probably unusual for them to jump to stright to hard drug without first trying masturbation - are those two linked?

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:24:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:20:29 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

You live in the USA right? Do you really think it is harder for U-21's to get cannabis than alcohol? Ask them.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Alcohol is the the same drug in pints and shorts. If someone is a regular cannabis user they might move to try different strains for strength or type of effect. You know that the active ingredient in cocaine is different right?

I agree with hardy - the "gateway" link is based largely on their illegality.

Quote from: NAG1 on February 09, 2016, 03:53:35 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:50:36 PM
What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

No country's pro boxing seems to be controlled by any Sports Council otherwise there wouldnt even be a question like arose over one of Pacmans fights about the drug testing etc it would be mandatory.

Also it does seem to attract the scummiest of elements - Tyson Fury being a good example.

Fury is a traveller and that community is well represented in boxing but has nothing to do with sadistic drug gangs

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

Are the guards scared or in cahoots with these gangsters??

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Cocaine is a stimulant, a lot of people would only use cocaine in association with alcohol to get through the night.

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:50:36 PM
What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

Matthew Macklin is in balls deep with the Kinahins, he has Macklin's Gym Marbella (MGM) which the Kinahins are heavily involved in. Jamie Moore, who was Macklin's trainer was mistakenly shot when the intended target was the father of the lad heading the fight card (Jamie Kavanagh) who the Kinahins subsequently bumped off, allegedly.

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 09, 2016, 11:39:32 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:50:36 PM
What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

Matthew Macklin is in balls deep with the Kinahins, he has Macklin's Gym Marbella (MGM) which the Kinahins are heavily involved in. Jamie Moore, who was Macklin's trainer was mistakenly shot when the intended target was the father of the lad heading the fight card (Jamie Kavanagh) who the Kinahins subsequently bumped off, allegedly.

I read this earlier in the week and I have to say that this story baffles me a little.  Why is Jamie Kavanagh still in tight with the Kinahans who, by all accounts, shot his father?

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 09, 2016, 10:24:21 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:24:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2016, 03:20:29 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

You live in the USA right? Do you really think it is harder for U-21's to get cannabis than alcohol? Ask them.

No I don't. I live in Ireland. I used to live in Arizona for 4 years in the late 90s early 00s.

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 09, 2016, 10:27:47 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Alcohol is the the same drug in pints and shorts. If someone is a regular cannabis user they might move to try different strains for strength or type of effect. You know that the active ingredient in cocaine is different right?

I realise that. Lookit, I realise a lot of lads like cannabis, and I'm sure a lot of lads on here have far more knowledge about it than I. I just don't like the automatic reaction of 'It should be legalised, and then that will do away with the drugs gangs'. If you could show me that there is 100% no link between a progression from Cannabis to other drugs, then I wouldn't give a shite. But if we are legalising Cannabis, and by doing so there is a chance that we expose more people to the culture of recreational drug use, and therefore harder drugs, then I don't think it's worth it.

Quote from: macdanger2 on February 09, 2016, 10:36:21 PM
I agree with hardy - the "gateway" link is based largely on their illegality.

Possibly, but again I'd like to see the science here. In fact it's probably more than likely. When I talk of the 'culture' of recreational drug use, and the lad stuck in the middle of it with his few ecstasy tablets or whatever, it's probably reinforced because it's illegal and drives users into that scene.

Quote from: johnneycool on February 10, 2016, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

I would have thought, its one of two things a) it was the tipped off journo who took the pictures that pixelated the faces b) it was the gardi to prevent reprisal shootings automatically.

Either way it is strange set of circumstances all round.

How do you know that there was a tipped off Journo? Is this widely known? I had heard a lot of the media stayed away as they were aware something could go down.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 10, 2016, 09:34:10 AM

Quote from: macdanger2 on February 09, 2016, 10:36:21 PM
I agree with hardy - the "gateway" link is based largely on their illegality.

Possibly, but again I'd like to see the science here. In fact it's probably more than likely. When I talk of the 'culture' of recreational drug use, and the lad stuck in the middle of it with his few ecstasy tablets or whatever, it's probably reinforced because it's illegal and drives users into that scene.

But AZ, the Guardian article you posted stated what I understand to be the scientific situation, there is no known causal link between cannabis use and harder drugs. In fact, there probably is a greater link between alcohol and cocaine use than cannabis use. Besides, if a kid wants to try cannabis (or any other drug) then it is relatively easy for them to get it, so how would legalising cannabis make it more likely that those who want to try it do so?

As far as I can see cannabis has no real negative social impact in of itself but keeping it illegal helps fund crime and stigmatises thousands of people who are taking nothing more harmful than a cigarette or pint of Guinness. 

Quote from: omagh_gael on February 10, 2016, 09:43:30 AM
How do you know that there was a tipped off Journo? Is this widely known? I had heard a lot of the media stayed away as they were aware something could go down.

Do you think that the picture was a casual passer by?  ;)

A lot of the sport media may well have stayed away but the others......?

Quote from: johnneycool on February 10, 2016, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..



There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Is that a man on the left? Surely that's a woman!

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

Is this not a picture of Love/Hate being filmed on location?

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 10, 2016, 09:51:54 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 10, 2016, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..



There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Is that a man on the left? Surely that's a woman!

One of them infamously dressed as a woman, which just adds to how surreal the while thing is

Quote from: johnneycool on February 10, 2016, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Would it be so as to not prejudice a future trial?
If there faces are published it potentially influences witnesses who have seen the photos.
Defense QC" Are you sure this is the man you saw with a gun or has your memory been tainted by this blurry photo in the papers?"
If reasonable doubt can be cast on the witnesses the photo is the only evidence. Would the photographer give it up or could it be proved it was not tampered with or taken at that time? Again the potential for reasonable doubt?

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 10, 2016, 09:30:22 AM

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 09, 2016, 10:27:47 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Alcohol is the the same drug in pints and shorts. If someone is a regular cannabis user they might move to try different strains for strength or type of effect. You know that the active ingredient in cocaine is different right?

I realise that. Lookit, I realise a lot of lads like cannabis, and I'm sure a lot of lads on here have far more knowledge about it than I. I just don't like the automatic reaction of 'It should be legalised, and then that will do away with the drugs gangs'. If you could show me that there is 100% no link between a progression from Cannabis to other drugs, then I wouldn't give a shite. But if we are legalising Cannabis, and by doing so there is a chance that we expose more people to the culture of recreational drug use, and therefore harder drugs, then I don't think it's worth it.

With a couple of the US states legalising some drugs it may be worth a 'wait and see'.

True. What's the story in the Netherlands I wonder?

You have it right there Leo.
Of course it would very well prejudice any future trial.

Quote from: LeoMc on February 10, 2016, 11:26:29 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 10, 2016, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Would it be so as to not prejudice a future trial?
If there faces are published it potentially influences witnesses who have seen the photos.
Defense QC" Are you sure this is the man you saw with a gun or has your memory been tainted by this blurry photo in the papers?"
If reasonable doubt can be cast on the witnesses the photo is the only evidence. Would the photographer give it up or could it be proved it was not tampered with or taken at that time? Again the potential for reasonable doubt?

I half heard a journalist from the Sunday World on the Radio the other day and he said the guards were exerting heavy pressure to get them not to publish the photos at all. Their rationale, as far as I could gather, was that identifying the killers could exacerbate the gangland war. The editor resisted - "public's right to know, etc.* - and eventually they compromised on pixelating the pics.

* Presumably up there with the public's right to see big tits on Page 3.

Quote from: Hardy on February 10, 2016, 01:03:14 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on February 10, 2016, 11:26:29 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 10, 2016, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: passedit on February 09, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazkSPpXEAAEwr7.jpg:large)

Quote
Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Would it be so as to not prejudice a future trial?
If there faces are published it potentially influences witnesses who have seen the photos.
Defense QC" Are you sure this is the man you saw with a gun or has your memory been tainted by this blurry photo in the papers?"
If reasonable doubt can be cast on the witnesses the photo is the only evidence. Would the photographer give it up or could it be proved it was not tampered with or taken at that time? Again the potential for reasonable doubt?

I half heard a journalist from the Sunday World on the Radio the other day and he said the guards were exerting heavy pressure to get them not to publish the photos at all. Their rationale, as far as I could gather, was that identifying the killers could exacerbate the gangland war. The editor resisted - "public's right to know, etc.* - and eventually they compromised on pixelating the pics.

* Presumably up there with the public's right to see big tits on Page 3.

Makes sense too, as does Leo's hypothesis of the trial scenario.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/regency-hotel-hitman-suspect-hands-himself-in-to-prison-34473323.html

If there is a killing in mainland Europe does that count as two,the way away goals in European football do in the event of a draw.

Quote from: T Fearon on February 22, 2016, 06:01:56 PM
If there is a killing in mainland Europe does that count as two,the way away goals in European football in the event of a draw.

A decidedly un-Christian remark.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/associate-of-gerry-the-monk-hutch-shot-dead-as-he-sat-in-car-34567713.html

Whats the craic with the man from Strabane who was pictured running from the scene?

Quote from: T Fearon on February 22, 2016, 06:01:56 PM
If there is a killing in mainland Europe does that count as two,the way away goals in European football do in the event of a draw.

very good

I make 3-1 to Kinahan over Hutch.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 25, 2016, 10:45:14 AM
I make 3-1 to Kinahan over Hutch.

The Gardai seem to have inhibited any quick evening of the score.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/hutch-associates-held-after-garda-intercept-two-cars-carrying-ak47s-34571254.html

Quote from: nrico2006 on March 25, 2016, 09:23:38 AM
Whats the craic with the man from Strabane who was pictured running from the scene?

I saw something on the front of the Sunday rags about him having a price on his head but was still living in Strabane.

There's a guy on twitter @saorsean seems to have the inside scoop as to what is going on

Quote from: general_lee on March 25, 2016, 12:28:40 PM
There's a guy on twitter @saorsean seems to have the inside scoop as to what is going on

Not on twitter, what's he saying that isn't in the general press?

You would have thought that Gardai might have got a "tip off" about the planned hit on renowned cigarette smuggler,Kingsize?

Another emergency today, Paul Williams is running out of nicknames for Gangsters and this might threaten his livelihood of selling papers.

Quote from: Itchy on March 26, 2016, 10:07:16 AM
Another emergency today, Paul Williams is running out of nicknames for Gangsters and this might threaten his livelihood of selling papers.

+5

If storms can have nicknames why not gangsters?

Loyalists have some array of nicknames. Check out Sunday World any Sunday.

Quote from: mikehunt on March 25, 2016, 03:25:20 PM

Quote from: general_lee on March 25, 2016, 12:28:40 PM
There's a guy on twitter @saorsean seems to have the inside scoop as to what is going on

Not on twitter, what's he saying that isn't in the general press?

Saorasean has been kicked off Twitter!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/dublin-gangland-feud-close-associate-of-hutch-family-shot-dead-1.2658793

Ismail Kadare wrote a book about the Kanun, the ancient Albanian feud code

https://www.bookdepository.com/Broken-April-Ismail-Kadare/9780099449874

It is brutal
http://kenner.kprdsb.ca/FOV1-000585DC/RThompson/The_Kanun.pdf

According to the Code, if a man
is deeply affronted, his family has the right to kill the person who has insulted him. However,
by doing this, the family will become a target for revenge on the part of the victim's family.
The victim's closest male relative is obliged to kill the murderer of his family member. The
pattern of reprisal killings thus formed has been passed on for generations of families and has
been manifested up to the present day in Albania, Kosovo, and, partly, in Montenegro. "Blood
is never lost", states the Kanun2. The perpetrator is entitled to ask through the agency of a
mediator – a well-respected member of the community, for a besa – a vow that no one would
hurt him. Those who have not taken revenge, fall into social disgrace. At public gatherings
they are served coffee or brandy in cups and glasses with a bullet put inside, in order to be
urged to avenge the injury. The Code does not allow the murdering of women or children.
The only place where blood should not be shed is the house of the marked victim. Because of
the ruthlessness of blood feud, most of the houses in Northern Albania look like fortresses
built of stone, with small apertures serving as windows. Even to date many Albanians shut
themselves inside their houses where they remain isolated for life in order to escape from
blood vengeance.

Is this not a bit like Tyrone V Derry, very one sided? Think the Hutch team needs a change of manager.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/armed-gardai-to-watch-over-slain-gangster-gary-hutchs-grave-as-vandalism-fears-loom-on-murder-anniversary-35075495.html

Is this a step too far?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/13/craic-clothing-firm-apologises-irish-crime-gang-designs-stupid-idea (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/13/craic-clothing-firm-apologises-irish-crime-gang-designs-stupid-idea)

I always enjoy watching the film "The General" which was on last night. It makes criminality look like an honourable profession.

Why is reality so different?

Quote from: Orior on March 25, 2018, 10:08:44 AM
I always enjoy watching the film "The General" which was on last night. It makes criminality look like an honourable profession.

Why is reality so different?

"The General" if Paul Williams had been around then he would have come up with a more Hollywood name for the Dirt bird  Cahill

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/1214/1341791-hutch-trial/

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/17/regency-hotel-trial-verdict-hutch/

Gerard Hutch has been found not guilty by the Special Criminal Court of the murder of David Byrne at Dublin's Regency Hotel.
Two co-accused were convicted earlier on Monday on lesser charges of facilitating the attack by making vehicles available to a criminal organisation.

Dowdall was some star witness for the Gards & DPP ffs, biggest bull shitter ever walked

There will be some celebrations in the North Inner City tonight!

https://twitter.com/DeportDaniel/status/1647977212610502658

Quote from: Saffrongael on April 17, 2023, 04:01:01 PM
Dowdall was some star witness for the Gards & DPP ffs, biggest bull shitter ever walked

totally

In the eyes of the law an innocent man has been incarcerated for 2 years. I assume Hutch will sue for compensation.

Quote from: Itchy on April 17, 2023, 06:59:21 PM
In the eyes of the law an innocent man has been incarcerated for 2 years. I assume Hutch will sue for compensation.

Ordinarily it would be very difficult for him to get any. Very high bar to get compensation after an acquittal

Obviously not privy to any of the evidence but always found it highly unlikely that a gangland kingpin like Hutch would get his own hands so dirty as to actually participate in a murder personally, particularly one so public and brazen.

Was there not a fairly damning video going around?

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/18/gerry-hutch-remains-under-garda-investigation-despite-regency-killing-acquittal/

The Special Criminal Court said the key witness for the State in the case against Gerry Hutch, former Sinn Féin cllr Jonathan Dowdall, was not credible. In its judgment delivered by Ms Justice Burns, sitting with judges Sarah Berkeley and Gráinne Malone, Dowdall was described as a liar who had continued to tell lies while giving evidence against Mr Hutch during the trial.
The court added the contention Mr Hutch was one of the gunmen was not credible, pointing to the fact he was in his 50s when the attack occurred. The CCTV images of the attack suggested the three gunmen in mock Garda uniforms moved with the agility and speed of much younger men in a "high velocity" attack.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/17/garda-failures-in-hutch-trial-will-add-to-questions-about-special-criminal-court/

The National Surveillance Unit (NSU), without question the most secretive unit within An Garda Síochána, is not used to having to explain itself in the Special Criminal Court.

This was evident early in the trial of Gerry "The Monk" Hutch when it emerged that potentially crucial data documenting the surveillance of Hutch had been deleted by gardaí before the case began.

For many observers, it beggared belief that in advance of the most high-profile organised crime trial in decades, notes concerning the tracking of a car carrying Hutch and former Sinn Féin councillor turned State's witness Jonathan Dowdall were taken from a fireproof safe and destroyed. This was done by the then head of the NSU following sign-off from an assistant commissioner.

Brendan Grehan SC, who was defending Hutch, said he could not understand how gardaí could "in good faith" decide to destroy the material, and suggested some sort of "cleaning house" was taking place. The matter was "disturbing" and a "real problem", he submitted.

Pretty clear who Dowdall was working for.

What happens Dowdall now? He'll be checking under his car everyday for the rest of his life I'd imagine.

So will Gerry Hutch

Quote from: trailer on April 18, 2023, 12:21:26 PM
What happens Dowdall now? He'll be checking under his car everyday for the rest of his life I'd imagine.

Allegedly in a witness protection scheme. No doubt he'll have to go outside Ireland?  Some egg on the faces of those who took his every word as gospel.

Quote from: Pub Bore on April 18, 2023, 12:33:48 PM

Quote from: trailer on April 18, 2023, 12:21:26 PM
What happens Dowdall now? He'll be checking under his car everyday for the rest of his life I'd imagine.

Allegedly in a witness protection scheme. No doubt he'll have to go outside Ireland?  Some egg on the faces of those who took his every word as gospel.

Jail at the minute and then witness protection I assume ?

Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 01:33:40 PM
Is this not a bit like Tyrone V Derry, very one sided? Think the Hutch team needs a change of manager.

Derry always had very good defenders, no matter how well they were going.

This fella had Saul Goodman along with Harvey Specter defending him!

Any good documentaries to watch or books to read on all this?

Have saw a few bits before and read loads of stuff on the internet.

Quote from: toby47 on April 18, 2023, 03:59:44 PM
Any good documentaries to watch or books to read on all this?

Have saw a few bits before and read loads of stuff on the internet.

Book - The Cartel by Stephen Breen covers it in good depth

Its bizarre the support he/they get from people on social media, like a modern day Robin hood....

The reality is they are robbing hooding bastards ;)

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2023, 04:12:29 PM
Its bizarre the support he/they get from people on social media, like a modern day Robin hood....

The reality is they are robbing hooding bastards ;)

Hutch would be fairly welll liked as he's not s drug dealer like that other shower.

Not sure if liked is the right would but he isnt a low life like the others. 

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 18, 2023, 04:22:10 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2023, 04:12:29 PM
Its bizarre the support he/they get from people on social media, like a modern day Robin hood....

The reality is they are robbing hooding bastards ;)

Hutch would be fairly welll liked as he's not s drug dealer like that other shower.

Not sure if liked is the right would but he isnt a low life like the others.

He's a decent robing hood then? Christ

The news is even in the Belfast Telegraph. Of course the Indo dined out on the legend of the Monk for many years.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2023, 07:02:54 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 18, 2023, 04:22:10 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2023, 04:12:29 PM
Its bizarre the support he/they get from people on social media, like a modern day Robin hood....

The reality is they are robbing hooding bastards ;)

Hutch would be fairly welll liked as he's not s drug dealer like that other shower.

Not sure if liked is the right would but he isnt a low life like the others.

He's a decent robing hood then? Christ

a lot more decent than the other shower. But had nosey through this thread earlier and would be in agreement with the poster that said put the lot on Spike Island and let them kill each other!

I didn't know Hutch wasn't a drug dealer. I kind of thought this feud was all about who was dominant in the drug trade. Why are they all killing each other if they are not in competition?

Quote from: Capt Pat on April 18, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
I didn't know Hutch wasn't a drug dealer. I kind of thought this feud was all about who was dominant in the drug trade. Why are they all killing each other if they are not in competition?

Think someone said, "your ma's a whore" and it all kicked off

Quote from: Capt Pat on April 18, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
I didn't know Hutch wasn't a drug dealer. I kind of thought this feud was all about who was dominant in the drug trade. Why are they all killing each other if they are not in competition?

Not that clued in on it tbh but I think Hutch nephew was big mates with Kinahan, they fell out, one tried to kill the other and missed, that went back and forward Hutch got involved  and eventually the nephew was shot. Hutch was alleged to have done a few big armed robberies. Open to correction.

As far as I remember the nephew being killed met with the response in the Regency.
Hutch would be a bank robber type. As one journalist said on the Radio at the time it wasn't a feud.
A family with criminality was being wiped out by a cartel. 

Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 18, 2023, 11:46:15 PM
As far as I remember the nephew being killed met with the response in the Regency.
Hutch would be a bank robber type. As one journalist said on the Radio at the time it wasn't a feud.
A family with criminality was being wiped out by a cartel.

Yeah sounds right. Although by all accounts Hutch a shrewd operator. Must be if he's still above ground!

Quote from: Capt Pat on April 18, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
I didn't know Hutch wasn't a drug dealer. I kind of thought this feud was all about who was dominant in the drug trade. Why are they all killing each other if they are not in competition?

Hutch was into armed robbery. He is more like Ned Kelly
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/21/gerry-hutch-profile-university-of-crime-graduate-a-natural-leader-and-planner/

•   While gardaí believe he remained involved in the drugs trade as an investor during his so-called retirement years, he was a hands-off criminal. He appeared to have climbed above the day-to-day hustle of Dublin's organised crime scene just as cocaine wars were about to break out on the streets of Dublin, unleashing an unprecedented level of gangland feuding.
•   However, his nephews – Gary Hutch and Christopher "Bouncer" Hutch – had become involved in a drugs gang in Dublin from the late 1990s into the 2000s with Daniel Kinahan and Christopher Kinahan jnr, the sons of Christy Kinahan snr. Over the next decade the Kinahan group, with Kinahan snr as its Spanish-based leader, grew into an international cartel, with Gary Hutch rising up through the ranks.
•   In February 2009, Gary Hutch was involved in the robbery of the Bank of Ireland cash stores on College Green, Dublin, when €7.6 million was stolen. He took his share of the money and invested much of it in the cartel, believing it would help him advance even further up the ranks. However, when his position in the cartel did not change, he organised for Daniel Kinahan to be shot outside his Spanish villa in 2014, though the gunman shot the wrong man in a case of mistaken identity.
•   That murder bid caused a major rift between the Kinahans and Hutch family – who were all well known to each other. It resulted in the shooting dead of Gary Hutch in Spain in September 2015. In late December that year, Gerry Hutch himself narrowly avoided being shot dead in a pub in Lanzarote by two gunmen sent by the Kinahans. The botched murder bid was proof the dispute between the Kinahan and Hutch groups had not died with Gary Hutch.

or Robin Hood

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/19/many-locals-in-dublins-north-inner-city-delighted-with-hutch-verdict/

Older people, in particular, around Buckingham Street, Foley Street and Sean McDermott Street, where Hutch grew up, described him and his family as "lovely", and cited the "good" he had done for young people and "the old folks" of the area.
Many, when approached by The Irish Times on Tuesday, did not wish to get into a conversation about Hutch. But all who did were happy with the Special Criminal Court verdict of not guilty to the charge of the murder of David Byrne at the Regency Hotel in February 2016.
One woman in her late 50s walking on Summerhill Parade said it was a "a great thing" as Hutch "wasn't involved".
"He had absolutely nothing to do with that. The dogs in the street know that. He wasn't even in the country. But they've been out to get him, dying to get him since the Brinks robbery," she said, referring to his alleged involvement in the 1995 robbery of £2.8 million from the Brinks Allied depot in Dublin.
"And the state of the poor man coming out [of the court] yesterday. I says to myself when I seen that: 'He'll go and get a nice haircut and his beard shaved off and he'll be grand'.

Wasn't aware of his background much so interesting reading here. The loveable Rogue. Martin Cahill'esque'?? Plenty of those characters in Belfast as well.

Who plays The Monk in the inevitable based on a true story Netflix film a la Ordinary Decent Criminal?  It's got Colin Farrell written all over it....

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 19, 2023, 09:25:30 AM
Wasn't aware of his background much so interesting reading here. The loveable Rogue. Martin Cahill'esque'?? Plenty of those characters in Belfast as well.

Did the judge say he was more than likely involved in the organisation of the Byrne murder, but that wasn't the charge against him here

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 19, 2023, 09:33:46 AM
Who plays The Monk in the inevitable based on a true story Netflix film a la Ordinary Decent Criminal?  It's got Colin Farrell written all over it....

Gleeson or Farrell yeah.

Quote from: Saffrongael on April 19, 2023, 09:49:16 AM

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 19, 2023, 09:25:30 AM
Wasn't aware of his background much so interesting reading here. The loveable Rogue. Martin Cahill'esque'?? Plenty of those characters in Belfast as well.

Did the judge say he was more than likely involved in the organisation of the Byrne murder, but that wasn't the charge against him here

You'd imagine that would be very hard to prove.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/21/gerry-hutch-profile-university-of-crime-graduate-a-natural-leader-and-planner/

Gerry Hutch was carrying out armed robberies with machine guns by the time he was 17-years-old. Just a year later, as he was about to become a father, he was able to buy his first home for cash. Hutch taught himself to read – using comics – while serving time in Mountjoy Prison, including one stint in the adult men's jail when aged just 15 years. Hutch described his time in lock-up as a "university of crime".
He had two key talents. He was a natural leader – from the time he was a child – and a meticulous planner. Garda sources, and some retired former members of the force, said it was always clear that Hutch was smarter and more disciplined than his peers in the criminal fraternity.

It's the same as in Belfast. The system that existed before the rule of law.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/04/19/many-locals-in-dublins-north-inner-city-delighted-with-hutch-verdict/
"He is very, very well liked, very good to the old folks. He gave them all a Christmas party every year in the [local community] hall – drink, food, bands everything.

"Everyone was delighted with the verdict. He is a lovely, lovely man. The way it is, he done what he done but it was never out of my pocket. He didn't sell drugs. I say, just leave him now."
Expressing a fear his life may be targeted, she added: "It's just these f**kers now. I hope they don't get their hands on him. A few people have said that there probably will be trouble. It's the younger generation of everybody who is doing it, and it's what they're on that is making them do it. They are on that crack cocaine and murdering people."

A woman with a walking frame and a hearing aid, in her late 60s, on Sean McDermott Street, said the verdict was "good", adding Hutch "looked after everybody". She had been "born and reared with him" and her family lived in a flat above the Hutch family.
Asked what he was like as a child, she said: "He was a bit wild but he settled down after a while. There was something about the family – a very good family. I went to school with his sisters. The father, Patrick, worked on the docks. The mother, Julia, and the father was always there for the whole lot of them. You won't get anyone around here to say anything bad about them.

"Gerard is very polite. No matter where he is or who he's with, if he sees anyone from the inner city he goes over and talks to them. That's why everyone liked him, and Patsy, and Johnny and poor Eddie," she said referring to Hutch's brothers.

The Indo loves the Monk

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/clean-shaven-gerry-the-monk-hutch-spotted-sporting-new-look-on-streets-of-dublin-today-42439827.html

It looks like the Kinahans are under pressure.https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/08/24/gardai-optimistic-kinahan-cartel-leaders-can-be-extradited-to-ireland-if-dpp-approves-charges/

Some even more brutal crowd will replace them.

I know a man who is a warden in Mountjoy, he told me a few months ago that the Kinnehan gang was cornered and on the way out, said there will likely be a serious battle between two and maybe a third gang to fill the vacuum and things were likely to get bloody very soon

Quote from: PMG1 on August 25, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
I know a man who is a warden in Mountjoy, he told me a few months ago that the Kinnehan gang was cornered and on the way out, said there will likely be a serious battle between two and maybe a third gang to fill the vacuum and things were likely to get bloody very soon

Have heard that too.

Currently listening to the Podcast on the feud between the 2 gangs. Very interesting with Hutch very much coming out of it as the 'better' criminal ....

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 25, 2023, 10:03:14 AM

Quote from: PMG1 on August 25, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
I know a man who is a warden in Mountjoy, he told me a few months ago that the Kinnehan gang was cornered and on the way out, said there will likely be a serious battle between two and maybe a third gang to fill the vacuum and things were likely to get bloody very soon

Have heard that too.

Currently listening to the Podcast on the feud between the 2 gangs. Very interesting with Hutch very much coming out of it as the 'better' criminal ....

Sounds like the feud still going on in Newtownards between the loyalist brethren over drug patches.

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 25, 2023, 10:03:14 AM

Quote from: PMG1 on August 25, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
I know a man who is a warden in Mountjoy, he told me a few months ago that the Kinnehan gang was cornered and on the way out, said there will likely be a serious battle between two and maybe a third gang to fill the vacuum and things were likely to get bloody very soon

Have heard that too.

Currently listening to the Podcast on the feud between the 2 gangs. Very interesting with Hutch very much coming out of it as the 'better' criminal ....

What's the podcast ?

Quote from: Saffrongael on August 25, 2023, 10:37:05 AM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 25, 2023, 10:03:14 AM

Quote from: PMG1 on August 25, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
I know a man who is a warden in Mountjoy, he told me a few months ago that the Kinnehan gang was cornered and on the way out, said there will likely be a serious battle between two and maybe a third gang to fill the vacuum and things were likely to get bloody very soon

Have heard that too.

Currently listening to the Podcast on the feud between the 2 gangs. Very interesting with Hutch very much coming out of it as the 'better' criminal ....

What's the podcast ?

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-kinahans/id1676062124

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 25, 2023, 12:42:46 PM

Quote from: Saffrongael on August 25, 2023, 10:37:05 AM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 25, 2023, 10:03:14 AM

Quote from: PMG1 on August 25, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
I know a man who is a warden in Mountjoy, he told me a few months ago that the Kinnehan gang was cornered and on the way out, said there will likely be a serious battle between two and maybe a third gang to fill the vacuum and things were likely to get bloody very soon

Have heard that too.

Currently listening to the Podcast on the feud between the 2 gangs. Very interesting with Hutch very much coming out of it as the 'better' criminal ....

What's the podcast ?

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-kinahans/id1676062124

Cheers

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0905/1403482-drew-harris/

Can we get them beheaded out there instead of extradited back to Ireland?

https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2024/1024/1477194-gerard-hutch/

Gerard Hutch, the man known as 'The Monk', and a number of his relatives have been arrested in Spain as part of an investigation into money laundering activities.
Hutch was arrested in Lanzarote and is being questioned in connection with the investigation by the Guardia Civil.
He was described by the Special Criminal Court as the head of the Hutch family.
Gardaí searched his house in Clontarf in Dublin yesterday, while the Guardia Civil carried out ten searches in Spain.
Several others, including Hutch family members, are also in custody in Spain.
The investigation into money laundering across several countries by the Hutch organised crime group has been ongoing for more than two years.
An officer from the Guardia Civil was present at the search in Dublin, while officers from the Garda National Bureau of Criminal Investigation (GNBCI) accompanied Spanish police on searches in Spain.
The search in Dublin took place on foot of an international letter of request and mutual assistance from the Spanish authorities.
Gardaí say the operation is part of ongoing liaison between the GNBCI and Guardia Civil, targeting a Transnational Organised Crime Group located both in Ireland and Spain.
A previous search targeting the group was conducted in Lanzarote in June 2022 by Guardia Civil on behalf of the GNBCI.
The Guardia Civil said in a statement that the investigation is ongoing and they are unable to give further information at this time because of a "secrecy order" in Spain.
Minister for Justice Helen McEntee said recent "actions" show the importance of relationships between the gardaí and police in other countries.
They also show that organised crime knows no boundaries, she added.
"It's very clear by a number of actions recently that An Garda Síochána are working very closely with our European and our international counterparts to bring those who are involved in organised crime to justice," she said.
"We know that crime knows no boundaries. We know that people to evade the law will often leave the country and cross into other jurisdictions, and that's why it's really important that gardaí have, over the years, built up really strong relationships with other police in other countries."
Minister McEntee also highlighted the importance of the recent extradition treaty signed by Ireland and the UAE.
"They make sure that that cooperation can be strengthened, that we have the frameworks in place, and above all, that those who are responsible for inflicting nothing but misery in our communities the length and breadth of this country, that the people at the very top are held accountable," she said.

Fascinating podcast this morning with Nicola Tallant interviewing Gerry Hutch.  I thought Hutch came across quite well (considering his past, and the direct lines of questioning )
Looking forward to parts 2 and 3

https://www.dublincityreturningofficer.com/index.php/general-election-2024/55-nominations-dublin-central
Hutch is listed as a "Consultant".
He will pick up votes though. Not enough to be elected but a lot of the local characters around there like a rogue!
He will take votes off Clare Daly and Mary Lou for definite.

Why do I think he will get elected?

Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2024, 08:09:00 PMWhy do I think he will get elected?

It's a long shot, but not impossible.
Hutch would be the inner city equivalent of a Healy Rae or Lowry.

Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2024, 08:09:00 PMWhy do I think he will get elected?

At this stage I'd think it's highly unlikely but then I thought Harris would beat Trump. If he doesn't get in it will be interesting to see where his transfers go...if anywhere.  But yes, I'd think he'll take some votes off Mary Lou and the left candidates.

For those with access, good program on BBC about the Kinahans. I can't believe in the 1980's I was running around Dublin thinking about nothing but GAA while all that was going on.

These lads had be paiding off the IRA. There no way they were running round Dublin carte blanche, late 80's to the mid 00's in the drugs trade.

Well worth 20 mins. Kinahans are bigger than ever apparently. Had no idea about the Iran/Hezbollah connections.

Daniel has been lifted in the UAE. I can just imagine the champagne popping in the garda HQ today

Just happened to be listening to a podcast on the Kinahans and the last one I listened to just mentioned they had links to Iran and Hezbollah is that why moves are only now being made?

Podcast was released in January by the way so before the latest war started

Quote from: gerrykeegan on April 17, 2026, 05:12:50 PMDaniel has been lifted in the UAE. I can just imagine the champagne popping in the garda HQ today

You'd wonder that he stayed in Dubai, as this has been likely to happen for some time

Where else would he go? Genuinely wondering about other spots that would have the likes of him.

Also what security/ prison will be needed when he lands?!

Was he not meant to be in Iran a while back? When are we expecting him in Ireland?

I saw that some Kinahan minion was arrested in Spain when he lost the rag and threatened to shoot the waiter in a restaurant.Not exactly a criminal mastermind.

The wheels must completely off the whole thing now at this point.

Are they looking for an extradition for the Daniel fella?

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 22, 2026, 04:16:02 PMWas he not meant to be in Iran a while back? When are we expecting him in Ireland?

He is appealing the extradition so who knows?

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 23, 2026, 01:13:49 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 22, 2026, 04:16:02 PMWas he not meant to be in Iran a while back? When are we expecting him in Ireland?

He is appealing the extradition so who knows?

Few palms greased and out by the weekend?

Be interesting to see what they have on him, I'm sure it's a long time from he got his hands dirty?

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2026/04/21/daniel-kinahan-to-plead-guilty-to-all-charges-after-being-threatened-with-sharing-cell-with-enoch-burke/

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 23, 2026, 02:04:20 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 23, 2026, 01:13:49 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 22, 2026, 04:16:02 PMWas he not meant to be in Iran a while back? When are we expecting him in Ireland?

He is appealing the extradition so who knows?

Few palms greased and out by the weekend?

Be interesting to see what they have on him, I'm sure it's a long time from he got his hands dirty?

They say they have him on that 'encrypted' text system ordering hits

Sean McGovern gets 24 years

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 24, 2026, 07:43:47 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 23, 2026, 02:04:20 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 23, 2026, 01:13:49 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 22, 2026, 04:16:02 PMWas he not meant to be in Iran a while back? When are we expecting him in Ireland?

He is appealing the extradition so who knows?

Few palms greased and out by the weekend?

Be interesting to see what they have on him, I'm sure it's a long time from he got his hands dirty?

They say they have him on that 'encrypted' text system ordering hits

That Encrochat seems to have done for a lot of the high level gangsters.

So he is on his way home. Air Corps jet landing in Baldonnel today

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 09, 2026, 12:05:00 PMSo he is on his way home. Air Corps jet landing in Baldonnel today

Can you follow the flight on flight radar?

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 09, 2026, 03:24:03 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 09, 2026, 12:05:00 PMSo he is on his way home. Air Corps jet landing in Baldonnel today

Can you follow the flight on flight radar?

Indeed you can.

IRL290 from Dubai to Dublin https://fr24.com/IRL290/4115c54b

It's like transfer window season but for drug kingpins. Could work 🙌

Annnnnnnd he's down.

Plane flew close by when I was on M50. Hope his luggage didn't go astray!