http://m.hoganstand.com/Home/Details/246129?county=National
Did the manager make the right call playing Tuohy over a player who has been with the panel all year?
It's a tough call that many managers face.
Surely no different to a county player, who has been AWOL all year, swanning into a club team for a championship match. At the end of the day you play your strongest team available, and that would include someone like him. Unless the player missing out is a selfish immature fucktard there should be no issue.
They have brought him back for the last 4/5 years. If they were good enough to reach the final why not start that team, and bring him off the bench.
This policy has been in place the last numbers obviously the panel are aware and comfortable with it. Fair play to Tuohy for making himself available.
It depends. We had a manager this year who was like the previous few and lived by the line that to play you have to be at all sessions and showing form. Yet come the championship and final few league games we had players who were unavailable for whatever reason all year and simply turned up for the 3 or 4 weeks of the championship run and they got to start, whereas there were players playing most of the year who were now consigned to the bench. Its a hard job being a manager, but if you declare one thing then you can't contradict yourself and play boys who show up when they want. In saying that, if you want to win and the returning players are better than what you have then you have a tough call to make.
He won the match. . . Right decision!
Managers these days are ruthless as f**k and it matters nothing that you weren't there all year or whatever if you are going to parachute straight in and offer something that the team's missing you can be guaranteed any manager worth his salt will do it!! As much as it goes against the ethos of the game etc. the reality is these things matter very very little in today's game!
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2015, 03:32:09 PM
He won the match. . . Right decision!
Managers these days are ruthless as f**k and it matters nothing that you weren't there all year or whatever if you are going to parachute straight in and offer something that the team's missing you can be guaranteed any manager worth his salt will do it!! As much as it goes against the ethos of the game etc. the reality is these things matter very very little in today's game!
For me its not as black and white as that. If the player / players in question who are being drafted in are say, abroad working or have a genuine reason, and, are historically committed club men, I wouldn't have a problem. Parachuting in an ego who is about but didnt bother his hole training, no chance. You need a good spirit, team bond (how many times have we seen teams at club / county win big when the whole is greater than it's parts) and you'll be doing it fair damage .
The bit in bold is probably true for the merry band of mercenary managers polluting counties, who only really care about the tax free cash and couldnt really give a fiddlers beyond the season or maybe 2 that they'll be at a club before following the mullah elsewhere.
PS: I'd have played Tuohy
Quote from: general_lee on October 28, 2015, 01:28:32 PM
Surely no different to a county player, who has been AWOL all year, swanning into a club team for a championship match. At the end of the day you play your strongest team available, and that would include someone like him. Unless the player missing out is a selfish immature fucktard there should be no issue.
Do you really believe that? I know I'd be well pissed off it I was that player. In fact you wouldn't be much of a player if you were happy to have your place taken by Zac.
As Dinny said, this has been agreed by the club so everybody knows and, I presume, accepts it but anyone worth their salt should be very annoyed if it was them getting cut.
Quote from: Zulu on October 28, 2015, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 28, 2015, 01:28:32 PM
Surely no different to a county player, who has been AWOL all year, swanning into a club team for a championship match. At the end of the day you play your strongest team available, and that would include someone like him. Unless the player missing out is a selfish immature fucktard there should be no issue.
Do you really believe that? I know I'd be well pissed off it I was that player. In fact you wouldn't be much of a player if you were happy to have your place taken by Zac.
As Dinny said, this has been agreed by the club so everybody knows and, I presume, accepts it but anyone worth their salt should be very annoyed if it was them getting cut.
Yes. (And if this is an arrangement that has been discussed prior then definitely).
At the end of the day all that matters is winning. You do what you have to do to win and that includes playing your best 15-20 available to you. Being displaced by a professional athlete isn't as bad as being displaced by someone of similar or lesser standard to yourself. If that is the case then yes you definitely have justification for kicking up a fuss.
They won't have Tuohy for the next round of Leinster against Sarsfield. It's not like Portlaoise have never won the Laois Championship, they are like Crossmaglen in Laois.
Been better off starting with the lads that were there all year and use him as an impact Sub.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 28, 2015, 07:41:10 PM
They won't have Tuohy for the next round of Leinster against Sarsfield. It's not like Portlaoise have never won the Laois Championship, they are like Crossmaglen in Laois.
Been better off starting with the lads that were there all year and use him as an impact Sub.
Drawing the first game has to be factored in. Would have been looking for an extra edge.
I know if I was the player that got dropped I'd feel sick. Professional athlete or not if he has just arrived and not been there for the majority of the season from January I would not start him. I agree with the some peoples opinions that some manager are just there for money and they justify the money they earn by how many games they win. I've been on teams in the past were a couple of fairly talented players have swanned in a week before the first league game of the season and trained once or twice and the manager has started them come the league game. The mood in the changing room and the attitude towards the manager afterwards from players who had been in line to start before the late comers arrived was awful, and it set the mood for the remainder of the season....
To be honest, I don't even think this should be up for question.
For most of the season, a manager's first duty is to his players, as without their investment, the season will amount to nothing. At a bigger club, this means balancing, rewarding and cajoling the needs over 30 players.
But when it comes to the business end of a season, a manager's only duty is to the club. Ultimately he is being paid to deliver success for a club - not to babysit people - and when you're talking about Championship semis and finals, you're talking about results that can genuinely affect an entire community.
As such it might be callous, and nobody likes to hear it, but winning a championship is infinitely more important to any club than whether a fringe player's nose is being put of of joint.
- - -
Regarding team harmony; as long as the main players in your club believe that the team is the right team, then it'll be a harmonious dressing room. Trust me, at the business end of the season, most of those main players have their eyes on silverware and not egos.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 29, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
To be honest, I don't even think this should be up for question.
For most of the season, a manager's first duty is to his players, as without their investment, the season will amount to nothing. At a bigger club, this means balancing, rewarding and cajoling the needs over 30 players.
But when it comes to the business end of a season, a manager's only duty is to the club. Ultimately he is being paid to deliver success for a club - not to babysit people - and when you're talking about Championship semis and finals, you're talking about results that can genuinely affect an entire community.
As such it might be callous, and nobody likes to hear it, but winning a championship is infinitely more important to any club than whether a fringe player's nose is being put of of joint.
- - -
Regarding team harmony; as long as the main players in your club believe that the team is the right team, then it'll be a harmonious dressing room. Trust me, at the business end of the season, most of those main players have their eyes on silverware and not egos.
:o
He obviously has a deal in place with Carlton - fair played to them also.
I remember Marty Clarke was home and played in a club game and it didn't go down well at Collingwood.
I hope there was a caveat added to Conor Glass' Hawthorn contract ;)
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2015, 12:45:16 PM
He obviously has a deal in place with Carlton - fair played to them also.
I remember Marty Clarke was home and played in a club game and it didn't go down well at Collingwood.
I hope there was a caveat added to Conor Glass' Hawthorn contract ;)
Charlton wouldn't release him to play the Aussie Rules game for Ireland because they are shit and are starting their pre-season early. It's a wonder they let him play the club game.
The second year now they didn't release him for the International Rules along with Ciaran Sheehan and Ciaran Byrne. He was brilliant in 2013.
Quote from: TheClutch on October 29, 2015, 11:45:14 AM
I know if I was the player that got dropped I'd feel sick. Professional athlete or not if he has just arrived and not been there for the majority of the season from January I would not start him. I agree with the some peoples opinions that some manager are just there for money and they justify the money they earn by how many games they win. I've been on teams in the past were a couple of fairly talented players have swanned in a week before the first league game of the season and trained once or twice and the manager has started them come the league game. The mood in the changing room and the attitude towards the manager afterwards from players who had been in line to start before the late comers arrived was awful, and it set the mood for the remainder of the season....
Sickening.
No doubt the following year there was an early push for training and usual bullshit about commitment. No doubt the lads stung the previous year learned their lesson and idled back the next or bother at all. There are better things to do in life than get messed about like that.
If the rules are followed by all then whatever is decided at the start of the year should lead to a fairly harmonious dressing room.
If Managers start making exceptions mid season that is when people get pissed off.
If you start pissing people off eventually they leave and then where the feck is your team/ club?
So IMO parachuting in players to championship sides without prior arrangement or no excuse isn't on, long term it damages the club and along with that damages what you were trying to achieve in the first instance.....SUCCESS.
Consistency is what most players want.
Id say a lot has to do with the type of fella the professional lad is as well. If he was a prima donna coming back im sure there would be lots of bad blood but he was one of the lads who made good and a good club man im sure there would be more good feeling
I dont remember a thread like this when Sean O'Brien togged out for his junior clubteam ;)
They had to drop two lads to make room for Sean O'Brien.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 28, 2015, 12:11:58 PM
http://m.hoganstand.com/Home/Details/246129?county=National
Did the manager make the right call playing Tuohy over a player who has been with the panel all year?
It's a tough call that many managers face.
Yes, without doubt.
Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2015, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: TheClutch on October 29, 2015, 11:45:14 AM
I know if I was the player that got dropped I'd feel sick. Professional athlete or not if he has just arrived and not been there for the majority of the season from January I would not start him. I agree with the some peoples opinions that some manager are just there for money and they justify the money they earn by how many games they win. I've been on teams in the past were a couple of fairly talented players have swanned in a week before the first league game of the season and trained once or twice and the manager has started them come the league game. The mood in the changing room and the attitude towards the manager afterwards from players who had been in line to start before the late comers arrived was awful, and it set the mood for the remainder of the season....
Sickening.
No doubt the following year there was an early push for training and usual bullshit about commitment. No doubt the lads stung the previous year learned their lesson and idled back the next or bother at all. There are better things to do in life than get messed about like that.
How many years of unbroken service would Tuohy have given his club from 6 years of age? It's not like he's a blow in
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 29, 2015, 11:22:52 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2015, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: TheClutch on October 29, 2015, 11:45:14 AM
I know if I was the player that got dropped I'd feel sick. Professional athlete or not if he has just arrived and not been there for the majority of the season from January I would not start him. I agree with the some peoples opinions that some manager are just there for money and they justify the money they earn by how many games they win. I've been on teams in the past were a couple of fairly talented players have swanned in a week before the first league game of the season and trained once or twice and the manager has started them come the league game. The mood in the changing room and the attitude towards the manager afterwards from players who had been in line to start before the late comers arrived was awful, and it set the mood for the remainder of the season....
Sickening.
No doubt the following year there was an early push for training and usual bullshit about commitment. No doubt the lads stung the previous year learned their lesson and idled back the next or bother at all. There are better things to do in life than get messed about like that.
How many years of unbroken service would Tuohy have given his club from 6 years of age? It's not like he's a blow in
Touhy is a no-brainer. He's available and legal you play him of course. If he was local you can be sure he would be a trainer.
The discussion went off on a bit of a tangent then about prima donnas arriving late in the season in clubs. I saw it as a player and had to try and deal it as a manager as well. That was what I was talking about. You re fucked if you do and fucked if you don't. You try and keep the lads that did the slog in Jan/Feb involved and try to win games with a few more talented lads that make the effort to make the journey down for games. I would not tolerate local fellas that wouldn t bother training though - no matter how talented they are. If your best players don t train and only show up a couple of weeks before championship, its a waste of time. Unless the top players drive training and buy in the rest will have no heart in it either. Utter waste of time.
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:17:58 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 29, 2015, 11:22:52 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2015, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: TheClutch on October 29, 2015, 11:45:14 AM
I know if I was the player that got dropped I'd feel sick. Professional athlete or not if he has just arrived and not been there for the majority of the season from January I would not start him. I agree with the some peoples opinions that some manager are just there for money and they justify the money they earn by how many games they win. I've been on teams in the past were a couple of fairly talented players have swanned in a week before the first league game of the season and trained once or twice and the manager has started them come the league game. The mood in the changing room and the attitude towards the manager afterwards from players who had been in line to start before the late comers arrived was awful, and it set the mood for the remainder of the season....
Sickening.
No doubt the following year there was an early push for training and usual bullshit about commitment. No doubt the lads stung the previous year learned their lesson and idled back the next or bother at all. There are better things to do in life than get messed about like that.
How many years of unbroken service would Tuohy have given his club from 6 years of age? It's not like he's a blow in
Touhy is a no-brainer. He's available and legal you play him of course. If he was local you can be sure he would be a trainer.
The discussion went off on a bit of a tangent then about prima donnas arriving late in the season in clubs. I saw it as a player and had to try and deal it as a manager as well. That was what I was talking about. You re fucked if you do and fucked if you don't. You try and keep the lads that did the slog in Jan/Feb involved and try to win games with a few more talented lads that make the effort to make the journey down for games. I would not tolerate local fellas that wouldn t bother training though - no matter how talented they are. If your best players don t train and only show up a couple of weeks before championship, its a waste of time. Unless the top players drive training and buy in the rest will have no heart in it either. Utter waste of time.
Couldn't have put it better myself.