Another example today of why a clock should be introduced, that way there is no confusion around how much time is left. I can't understand why they won't do it unless it's to give teams a chance to draw so they can make money on a replay.
I would also suggest that the clock is stopped in the last two minutes once the ball is not in play and at any time at the refs discretion for injuries etc...
Some examples of where the clock would have avoided controversy.
1) ai final kerry v Dublin 2011, cluxton takes about a minute and a half to kick the winning score
2) Connacht final 2010, Donnie Shine lies on the ground for about a minute and a half in injury time with no additional time added
3) last years Ai final with killian o'connor
4) Today
I have asked for a clock in the past and today I think is the icing on the cake. I know the traditionalists will vehemently disagree but I think the right thing to do is bring in the clock starting with the league next year.
Really? 2010 Connacht final? Still bitter over that?
But you are right. a clock and hooter is the way to go.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on August 03, 2014, 06:00:19 PM
Really? 2010 Connacht final? Still bitter over that?
But you are right. a clock and hooter is the way to go.
Yes I'm still not over it.
In my opinion, watching players waste time with dragging, faking injuries etc is a major negative and should be addressed.
Another example was the previous free for cork where the mayo cb stopped them getting the ball for about 20 seconds.
Quote from: sligoman2 on August 03, 2014, 05:58:35 PM
Another example today of why a clock should be introduced, that way there is no confusion around how much time is left. I can't understand why they won't do it unless it's to give teams a chance to draw so they can make money on a replay.
I would also suggest that the clock is stopped in the last two minutes once the ball is not in play and at any time at the refs discretion for injuries etc...
Some examples of where the clock would have avoided controversy.
1) ai final kerry v Dublin 2011, cluxton takes about a minute and a half to kick the winning score
2) Connacht final 2010, Donnie Shine lies on the ground for about a minute and a half in injury time with no additional time added
3) last years Ai final with killian o'connor
4) Today
I have asked for a clock in the past and today I think is the icing on the cake. I know the traditionalists will vehemently disagree but I think the right thing to do is bring in the clock starting with the league next year.
100% ladies football and all levels of amateur basketball can do it. A simple solution to a very annoying problem.
Donie was just looking for his contact lens.
Quote from: sligoman2 on August 03, 2014, 05:58:35 PM
Another example today of why a clock should be introduced, that way there is no confusion around how much time is left. I can't understand why they won't do it unless it's to give teams a chance to draw so they can make money on a replay.
I would also suggest that the clock is stopped in the last two minutes once the ball is not in play and at any time at the refs discretion for injuries etc...
Some examples of where the clock would have avoided controversy.
1) ai final kerry v Dublin 2011, cluxton takes about a minute and a half to kick the winning score
As has been highlighted many times, Cluxton took less time coming up from his goal for that free than Sheehan's free around 60 minutes, when he adjusted his socks, checked the wind and went through his routing. Don't let the facts get in the way though.
Quote from: sligoman2 on August 03, 2014, 05:58:35 PM
Another example today of why a clock should be introduced, that way there is no confusion around how much time is left. I can't understand why they won't do it unless it's to give teams a chance to draw so they can make money on a replay.
I would also suggest that the clock is stopped in the last two minutes once the ball is not in play and at any time at the refs discretion for injuries etc...
Some examples of where the clock would have avoided controversy.
1) ai final kerry v Dublin 2011, cluxton takes about a minute and a half to kick the winning score
2) Connacht final 2010, Donnie Shine lies on the ground for about a minute and a half in injury time with no additional time added
3) last years Ai final with killian o'connor
4) Today
I have asked for a clock in the past and today I think is the icing on the cake. I know the traditionalists will vehemently disagree but I think the right thing to do is bring in the clock starting with the league next year.
I hope whatever clock they bring in is more accurate than yours.
I totally agree. The nonsense that we had today and last years final is really maddening. It really puts a dampener on what was becoming an exciting finish to both those games.
Quote from: thejuice on August 03, 2014, 07:35:03 PM
I totally agree. The nonsense that we had today and last years final is really maddening. It really puts a dampener on what was becoming an exciting finish to both those games.
Surely both were the attacking teams' faults, did the referee in either case directly say there would be time for one more passage of play? Any referee that would say that then blow up would deserve to be thrown off the elite panel immediately.
Why did the cork player not go for goal? He should know by now that a Referees word mean diddley when it comes to last kick of the game stuff. There is a litany of this happening over the years. The time was up! Cillian O'Connor did the same in last year AI final. Once you are out of Normal time and added time its a lottery as to what the referee will do.
I think Colm O'Neill has said on twitter that the ref said there was one minute left but extra time is a lottery and really needs to be cleaned up.
Quote from: Zulu on August 03, 2014, 08:13:46 PM
I think Colm O'Neill has said on twitter that the ref said there was one minute left but extra time is a lottery and really needs to be cleaned up.
One minute does not be long going. Between the time to take the free, time for Goalie to collect the ball from behind the goal, the time for goalie to place the ball, time for the Goalie to look to where he is going to kick the ball to and finally to kick the damn thing! The Goalie in such circumstances will be in no hurry.
The hooter system is supposed to come in next year and the rule changes required put to Congress.
Quote from: Mac2 on August 03, 2014, 08:33:48 PM
The hooter system is supposed to come in next year and the rule changes required put to Congress.
Thought the GAA cooled on the hooter idea after the Sigerson final, certainly in that form.
There's no use bringing in a hooter system without some means of dealing with time-wasting in the last few minutes, or things would get even worse than they are now. The referee (or, better still, the timekeeper) needs to be able to stop the clock in the last few minutes if lads are fluting around preventing a free being taken or starting a pushing and shoving match just to use up time, or the goalie stops to tie his laces before the kickout. At present the referee has the option of factoring this in (though hardly any of them do).
Maybe you could have a five minute hooter to indicate the start of ball-in-play timing. After that, the timekeeper keeps the clock stopped all the time the ball is not in play.
When Camogie and Ladies Football get merged into the GAA it'll be a whole lot easier to introduce common sense ideas like this.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2014, 10:07:20 PM
When Camogie and Ladies Football get merged into the GAA it'll be a whole lot easier to introduce common sense ideas like this.
Sexist bollix >:(
none of yis have the first clue what you're talking about and have clearly never watched women's football!
The clock does not stop for bookings, for frees, or for goalkicks.
The ref blew the whistle at the right time. The clock was on the screen for all the players to see. If the hooter had been in operation it would have went at exactly the same time the ref blew the whistle. So having the clock would change nothing.
The freetaker may have misunderstood the ref's call, but that'll teach him for not watching the All Ireland final last year and seeing Cillian O'Connor making the same mistake. The Cork lad deserves a good kick up the hole for kicking the ball over the bar. No excuse for such stupidity.
I get you point heffo but two wrongs don't make a right.
I don't see why the players should not know EXACTLY how much time is left, the game is supposed to be 70 minutes and no season should end on the basis of bad info from the ref.
Stop the clock for the last two minutes when the ball is not in play and then there won't be any controversy. It's time to treat the players with respect, they train hard and they should know how much time they have left without having to guess or dealing with refs that give bad info
The quicker someone boots an opposing player up the hole for blocking a quick free or other time wasting effort the better.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on August 04, 2014, 02:20:41 AM
The quicker someone boots an opposing player up the hole for blocking a quick free or other time wasting effort the better.
Agree totally mfd. there would be less time wasting if the clock wasn't ticking. Time wasting in my opinion is an ugly part of the game that needs to be eliminated and the stopped clock will do that. It's not difficult to press a button and stop the clock when the ball is not in play for the last few minutes. Wasting time is a deplorable tactic just like diving in soccer ( or football👀)
It has to be Hooters.
The Ref was a joke gave all the 50-50 calls to Mayo,
but the rest of ireland dont need to worry , Mayo going nowhere, lack inside forwards and the full back line very dodgy
No sam in this team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=221723
Reaction from Colm O'Neill.
The clock is a very simple solution to a very major flaw in our games
Quote from: Hound on August 03, 2014, 11:02:35 PM
none of yis have the first clue what you're talking about and have clearly never watched women's football!
The clock does not stop for bookings, for frees, or for goalkicks.
The ref blew the whistle at the right time. The clock was on the screen for all the players to see. If the hooter had been in operation it would have went at exactly the same time the ref blew the whistle. So having the clock would change nothing.
The freetaker may have misunderstood the ref's call, but that'll teach him for not watching the All Ireland final last year and seeing Cillian O'Connor making the same mistake. The Cork lad deserves a good kick up the hole for kicking the ball over the bar. No excuse for such stupidity.
I think you are wrong about one thing hound, if the clock had been there it would've changed the fact that the Cork lads would have tried for a goal with the last free. The ref told them there was time left hence they tapped it over. Not that hard to understand is it?
Let the ref say time off into his microphone whenever there's an injury, or having to talk to his linesman about giving cards, or a dust up or whatever, then the clock stops and it restarts when the ref says so. Easy stuff. It'll end the nonsense of one minute injury time we've seen at end of matches. How can a whole half only have one minute injury time? It happened in 2012 when Laois had Dubl$n on the ropes, the ref blew it up early. It happened this year aswell for Wexford against Laois, only one minute added on. Crazy stuff when a teams whole season is on the line. Some matches might last a good bit more than 70 but at least it'll be fair.
Quote from: Itchy on August 05, 2014, 07:51:38 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 03, 2014, 11:02:35 PM
none of yis have the first clue what you're talking about and have clearly never watched women's football!
The clock does not stop for bookings, for frees, or for goalkicks.
The ref blew the whistle at the right time. The clock was on the screen for all the players to see. If the hooter had been in operation it would have went at exactly the same time the ref blew the whistle. So having the clock would change nothing.
The freetaker may have misunderstood the ref's call, but that'll teach him for not watching the All Ireland final last year and seeing Cillian O'Connor making the same mistake. The Cork lad deserves a good kick up the hole for kicking the ball over the bar. No excuse for such stupidity.
I think you are wrong about one thing hound, if the clock had been there it would've changed the fact that the Cork lads would have tried for a goal with the last free. The ref told them there was time left hence they tapped it over. Not that hard to understand is it?
The ref told him there was "about a minute left".
O'Neill put the ball down, sized it up, put it over the bar.
Keeper got a ball and a tee, walked out and placed it down, looked up to see his options, fired it out to the middle of the field.
As the ball was just coming down in the middle of the field, the ref blew for full time.
The final whistle blew approximately 55 seconds after the ref told O'Neill there was "about a minute" left. Having a clock on the sideline would have made absolutely no difference to this.
This exact same thing happened to Cillian O'Connor in the All Ireland final last year. O'Connor had no reason whatsover to think the clock was stopped when the ref told him what time was left, but nonetheless that's what he thought, and its fair to say a few others would have had the same misconception. But after the publicity that received, there's absolutely no excuse for O'Neill or anyone else to make the very same mistake this year.
The actual foul happened at 71'52", O'Neill rushed to get the ball, place it and ask the ref how much time is left, he was told about a minute left at 72'10", he taped over the free at 72'21". The kick out and final whistle came at 72'50".
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 05, 2014, 10:20:28 PM
It happened in 2012 when Laois had Dubl$n on the ropes, the ref blew it up early.
(http://userimg.tv.com/icon/9/5/22585788146728860799453743631859/tv_icon.jpg)
The ref got word in his mic from the powers above. "The Dubs are in trouble, blow it up quick, we need another round out of them", the whistle was blown and Dubl$n were saved.
How long is "about a minute"?
40 seconds apparantly.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 06, 2014, 09:25:23 AM
The ref got word in his mic from the powers above. "The Dubs are in trouble, blow it up quick, we need another round out of them", the whistle was blown and Dubl$n were saved.
any chance if a table of stats to back that up ;D
The players shouldn't have to ask the ref. it should be clear for all concerned how long is left and a countdown clock would sort this out.
This craic of "at least" 2 mins injury time is the problem. Colm O Neill had to ask the ref how long was left despite a clock in the stadium and a sign and announcement about 2 mins injury time. Despite all this Colm O Neill like everyone else still hadn't a clue what was really left. The ref ended up playing 2'50secs even though the only time wasting in injury time was as a result of Cork frees.
With a countdown clock everybody knows what's happening. Even if the clock was never stopped at least at the end of the game everyone is clear on the time left. When you see hawk eye in action you have to wonder why something as simple as a stop clock cannot be brought into the game
Is the ref under any obligation to inform a player as to how long is left in a game?
If independent time keeping were to come to pass I'd personally favour a version of the system used in rugby when the ref informs a time keeper to stop the clock for an injury, schemozzle, a player deliberately (in the ref's opinion) wasting time, giving out cards etc. Then blow it up when the clock reaches 35 or 70??
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2014, 08:47:28 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 05, 2014, 07:51:38 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 03, 2014, 11:02:35 PM
none of yis have the first clue what you're talking about and have clearly never watched women's football!
The clock does not stop for bookings, for frees, or for goalkicks.
The ref blew the whistle at the right time. The clock was on the screen for all the players to see. If the hooter had been in operation it would have went at exactly the same time the ref blew the whistle. So having the clock would change nothing.
The freetaker may have misunderstood the ref's call, but that'll teach him for not watching the All Ireland final last year and seeing Cillian O'Connor making the same mistake. The Cork lad deserves a good kick up the hole for kicking the ball over the bar. No excuse for such stupidity.
I think you are wrong about one thing hound, if the clock had been there it would've changed the fact that the Cork lads would have tried for a goal with the last free. The ref told them there was time left hence they tapped it over. Not that hard to understand is it?
The ref told him there was "about a minute left".
O'Neill put the ball down, sized it up, put it over the bar.
Keeper got a ball and a tee, walked out and placed it down, looked up to see his options, fired it out to the middle of the field.
As the ball was just coming down in the middle of the field, the ref blew for full time.
The final whistle blew approximately 55 seconds after the ref told O'Neill there was "about a minute" left. Having a clock on the sideline would have made absolutely no difference to this.
This exact same thing happened to Cillian O'Connor in the All Ireland final last year. O'Connor had no reason whatsover to think the clock was stopped when the ref told him what time was left, but nonetheless that's what he thought, and its fair to say a few others would have had the same misconception. But after the publicity that received, there's absolutely no excuse for O'Neill or anyone else to make the very same mistake this year.
This is why I have said that you stop the clock when the ball is not in play in the last 2 or 3 minutes. Not in play includes sidelines, kick outs, 45's, frees etc. Once the foul is committed, the click stops until play resumes. This way there is no confusion, everyone knows how much time is left and refs aren't to blame. It may cause a few frees to stop the clock but it's worth it.
After training hard all year, diets, gym, travel, injuries and other sarcrifices, the least the GAA could do is let players know EXACTLY how much time is left so they can make a decision based on facts rather than abouts or maybes. It's an easy solution.
What's wrong with the rugby scenario? The clock counts to the half time or full time mark, and the players know that when the ball goes dead next, the game is over. Clock stops when the ref says to stop it etc.
It's going to be hard, though, to introduce good clock management into club games etc, so this would probably just be for inter county championship games.
so does the game end on the hooter or when the ball goes out of play after the hooter?
if you added 30 secs for every substitution in the game you could have at least 6 minutes extra in every game.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 06, 2014, 01:34:51 PM
What's wrong with the rugby scenario? The clock counts to the half time or full time mark, and the players know that when the ball goes dead next, the game is over. Clock stops when the ref says to stop it etc.
It's going to be hard, though, to introduce good clock management into club games etc, so this would probably just be for inter county championship games.
I would agree, the way the time is managed in rugby would also be the best system for GAA, but there is always a reluctance to be seen 'copying' something from another code, no matter how sensible a solution it might be.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 06, 2014, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 06, 2014, 01:34:51 PM
What's wrong with the rugby scenario? The clock counts to the half time or full time mark, and the players know that when the ball goes dead next, the game is over. Clock stops when the ref says to stop it etc.
It's going to be hard, though, to introduce good clock management into club games etc, so this would probably just be for inter county championship games.
I would agree, the way the time is managed in rugby would also be the best system for GAA, but there is always a reluctance to be seen 'copying' something from another code, no matter how sensible a solution it might be.
Dunno about that. We copied the red and yellow cards, and that poxy handshake. Maybe we could borrow the good stuff instead of the crap.
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 06, 2014, 09:25:23 AM
The ref got word in his mic from the powers above. "The Dubs are in trouble, blow it up quick, we need another round out of them", the whistle was blown and Dubl$n were saved.
Not if the Dubs walked off the field would they have been in.trouble in that game.
Quote from: AQMP on August 06, 2014, 12:31:08 PM
Is the ref under any obligation to inform a player as to how long is left in a game?
Good refs will tell the player. Refs who are dickheads won't.
The rugby rule is the only sensible solution. Play continues until there's a score or it goes out for a sideline ball or goalkick.
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2014, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 06, 2014, 12:31:08 PM
Is the ref under any obligation to inform a player as to how long is left in a game?
Good refs will tell the player. Refs who are d**kheads won't.
The rugby rule is the only sensible solution. Play continues until there's a score or it goes out for a sideline ball or goalkick.
Or the team in possession fouls.
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2014, 09:14:45 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2014, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 06, 2014, 12:31:08 PM
Is the ref under any obligation to inform a player as to how long is left in a game?
Good refs will tell the player. Refs who are d**kheads won't.
The rugby rule is the only sensible solution. Play continues until there's a score or it goes out for a sideline ball or goalkick.
Or the team in possession fouls.
If thats the case they can kick the resulting free out of play to end the game