Draw:
All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Draw:
Antrim v Offaly
Waterford v Laois
Tipperary v Kilkenny/Galway
Clare v Wexford
***
First team has home advantage. Games to be played on Saturday, June 28/Saturday, July 5. Fixtures details will be confirmed by the GAA's CCCC in due course and will be announced first on GAA.ie.
Antrim will fancy their chances again with Offaly up in Ballycastle presumably.
One big gun is going to have a long summer between Tipp, Galway and Kilkenny. I bet Eamon O'Shea must think the hurling gods are against him!!
Liam Dunne will fancy his chances against Clare, but think they'll come up short.
Waterford to just have enough against Laois, but it won't be plain sailing..
Every draw was going to be tough for Offaly at the moment, when you consider the options were Laois/Antrim or one of the munster 3. In that context Antrim isn't the worst draw, but away in Ballycastle, presumably, will be too much for this bunch I think. Antrim to win. If it was in Tullamore i'd fancy Offaly.
Laois away to Waterford is another one. I'd nearly fancy Laois if it was in O'Moore park, but Waterford at home should shade it. I wouldn't call a Laois win here a shock though, their formline just took a big upswing with the Galway performance yesterday.
Tipp at home versus Kilkenny or Galway. 2 things come to mind. The first is if this was away, Tipp would be going out. The second is even at that, they'll be hoping Kilkenny beat Galway the next day, and will be hoping for a demoralised Galway coming to Thurles. Too many question marks about Tipp for me, and I think the loser of Kilkenny and Galway will have enough in this one
Clare in Ennis will be too much for Wexford I think. Another one where home advantage may be the deciding factor, in that I think Wexford would really put it up to them in Wexford, but I think Clare will still be dangerous this year, and Wexford won't be able for them in Ennis.
AZ do you think there's a big gap between Offaly and Wexford at the minute? I ask as Wexford hammered Antrim out the gate. I know Antrim beat Offaly in the league but they also should have beat Wexford but in championship it was very different.
Far from an easy game for antrim either. Still - I' d be hopeful about it but was before Wexford too. One of the problems with being an antrim supporter!
I think Wexford would beat Offaly given the state of them at the moment, but probably not by 15 points or the like. However, this game is up in Ballycastle, and our lads haven't proved they have the stomach for that sort of a fight. If it's a grand loose game, our lads might have the wrists, especially if Brian Carroll and Shane Dooley get going, but I have serious concerns if it becomes a tough game.
Yes those two boys would worry me. The Wexford game was very loose but I'm hoping Ryan has learned his lesson and plays it a bit tighter at the back - especially with the space between the opposition half and full forward line.
It's a decent draw for both to be honest as there were quite a few potential drubbings on either side so nice to have a game which is *potentially* winnable.
Tipp against Galway / Kilkenny should be a cracker. Clare probably a bit much for Wexford.
Happy enough to be playing Waterford.
I rate our chances of winning to be slightly higher than slim but hopefully we give another good account of ourselves like we did against Galway.
Quote from: laoislad on June 23, 2014, 02:00:57 PM
Happy enough to be playing Waterford.
I rate our chances of winning to be slightly higher than slim but hopefully we give another good account of ourselves like we did against Galway.
I think we are heading in opposite directions. Hopefully we're still ahead of ye.
This draw is unfair in a couple of ways. The Munster teams being kept apart makes them more likely to get a softer draw. Also the losers of Galway/KK will enter the draw at the same point as Laois and Offaly,the teams they beat earlier, but with less of a rest between games. I think Galway have a decent chance of beating Kilkenny but it's unfair that the losers aren't given an extra week off.
Quote from: Asal Mor on June 24, 2014, 11:04:32 PM
This draw is unfair in a couple of ways. The Munster teams being kept apart makes them more likely to get a softer draw. Also the losers of Galway/KK will enter the draw at the same point as Laois and Offaly,the teams they beat earlier, but with less of a rest between games. I think Galway have a decent chance of beating Kilkenny but it's unfair that the losers aren't given an extra week off.
That's the bit I don't get, surely that is wrong or what is the benefit of winning your first game?
Waterford won comfortably enough last night in front of just over 5000 at Walsh Park. Laois got an ideal start with a goal in first minute and game was close up to mid way through first half when Waterford took over and scored 1-5 without reply until half time to lead by double scores. Waterford stretched their lead in 2nd half and then Laois hit 5 points in a row to cut the lead to 6. Waterford finished strongly and 2 frees from Padraic Mahony and a couple of great points from sub Gavin O'Brien finished the game off. Decent performance by Waterford but I thought it would be a closer game as Laois weren't as good as I expected and only hurled well in short spells.
Rumours going around Tipp that Eoin Kelly and Paul Curran and 4 others have been cut from the 26 for the matchday squad. Not due to any disciplinary reasons or anything, just out of the named 26. They'll probably come back in if they get over Galway, but it's hard to see them featuring much any more for Tipp. If Galway win, and the rumours are true, you'd imagine this is the end for both of them. Surprised at Paul Curran especially, because I think Tipp are in trouble at full back. Paudie Maher is not a full back. I think Tipp should have Curran at full back, Paudie Maher at wing back, Conor O'Mahoney at centre, and Brendan Maher in centre field.
Big call by O'Shea Sheehy on Curran in particular as they do look to be lacking an out and out fullback, let alone full back cover especially with the amount of big men smattered throughout the forwards for Galway who will be wanting the ball falling out of the clouds rather than into the wide open spaces in Thurles.
That's why I think O'Mahony needs to be in the centre as well. He's from my own club, and I think he has to be played up the centre. He's a good ball winner, and a good distributor, but he's not a runner and wouldn't be able to handle a mobile wing forward or corner forward.
Paudie Maher attacks every ball like a wing back, even at full back, and the odd one he lets over his head are punished when on the edge of the square. I don't think he can change though. Every ball has to be caught, two shoulders given, a tap on the hurley and an 80 yard delivery. When you make a shite of one and #14 bursts the net, you can look a bit daft.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 02, 2014, 02:04:59 PM
That's why I think O'Mahony needs to be in the centre as well. He's from my own club, and I think he has to be played up the centre. He's a good ball winner, and a good distributor, but he's not a runner and wouldn't be able to handle a mobile wing forward or corner forward.
Paudie Maher attacks every ball like a wing back, even at full back, and the odd one he lets over his head are punished when on the edge of the square. I don't think he can change though. Every ball has to be caught, two shoulders given, a tap on the hurley and an 80 yard delivery. When you make a shite of one and #14 bursts the net, you can look a bit daft.
Anything like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHbGYbl608g
Lar starts! ;D
Lar Corbett returns to the Tipperary team for tomorrow's All-Ireland hurling qualifier against Galway in Thurles. The former Hurler of the Year is one of three changes to the side that lost last month's Munster semi-final to Limerick.
A knee injury kept him out of the county's league campaign although he came on against Limerick for the last 16 minutes in Semple Stadium. He has recently had a trouble-free run of three club matches with Thurles Sarsfields.
He comes into the team in place of Niall O'Meara at left corner forward. The starting centrefield from that day is also replaced. There is a debut for Ronan Maher, brother of full back Pádraic Maher and a very talented young player, who comes in for Kieran Bergin.
James Woodlock, a late withdrawal before the Limerick match, returns to partner Maher and replaces Shane McGrath. There is one further positional switch with captain Brendan Maher and Conor O'Mahony swapping places in the half back line.
Looking at the Tipp team, there's still a lot of serious quality there. I think they've been unlucky so far under O' Shea. They lost a few tight games that they could easily have won. Galway are gonna need a huge performance. The effort from the Galway players this year has been great. They're giving it everything, but it seems the quality just isn't there, especially up front.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/the-belief-you-should-have-when-you-pull-on-the-tipp-jersey-is-missing-its-gone-30408350.html
"Now Galway come to town with Tipp's modern championship record against the Tribesmen suggesting the likelihood of another nailbiter. Since beating them in the '01 All-Ireland final, Tipp have won two ('03 and '10) of their three championship games against Galway, both by single-point margins. In '05, Galway won by two.
Leahy worries that a similarly tight contest could activate old shortcomings.
"I think the pressure on Tipp will be overwhelming because of all that's gone on in the last few weeks," he says.
"And, because of that, I honestly believe the crowd will be an important player. Because, if Tipp don't start well, with the negativity that has gone on, the anxiety will spread. The belief you should have when you pull on the Tipp jersey is missing, it's gone. And we are a difficult county from the point of view of expectation. We've got a very skilful team right now, all of them well able to hurl.
"But all I'm hearing from people is that 'Bonner' Maher is so vital. People are saying 'We need another Bonner!' "That talk gathers momentum and it kind of becomes an issue. Because the truth is we haven't found another 'Bonner'. We've found loads of really skilful hurlers, but is that enough in this day and age?""
2 teams that have confidence issues . Tipp don't sound great TBH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcOxhH8N3Bo
Great start for Wexford, can they keep it going? I wonder who Davy will blame today if this ends in a defeat
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
Great start for Wexford, can they keep it going? I wonder who Davy will blame today if this ends in a defeat
The ref by the looks of it. Clear red card. Hit him with the stick and then pulled the face mask. Take your pick
Quote from: AQMP on July 05, 2014, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
Great start for Wexford, can they keep it going? I wonder who Davy will blame today if this ends in a defeat
The ref by the looks of it. Clear red card. Hit him with the stick and then pulled the face mask. Take your pick
These players know from the start that any interference with a helmet will be dealt with a red card, pure stupidity, and who does Davy go to at half time? Yeah the referee, if I was the manager I'd be giving my a lot of grief for fecking things up
Some finish. Cracking game.
Quote from: gerrykeegan on July 05, 2014, 05:03:16 PM
Some finish. Cracking game.
Unlike Galway's Kilkenny's finish both teams missed their last chance to win it!! Davy is hard to like
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on July 05, 2014, 05:03:16 PM
Some finish. Cracking game.
Unlike Galway's Kilkenny's finish both teams missed their last chance to win it!! Davy is hard to like
that's a good result for wexford
Total fade out by Galway in the second half but the game swung on Tipp's second goal and the failure of the Galway management to make the most obvious change that was never made. I felt sorry for Ronan Burke out there but you could see within 20 minutes that they needed to send Johnny Coen in on Callanan to match him for pace. That'll be it for Cunningham and while he didn't have alot to work with, his reign will be defined by dreadful tactical decision making.
Awful disappointing last quarter from Galway. Lost the plot entirely. Tipp should make Quarter finals now at least.
Wexford probably left it behind them but Clare seem to have gone stale.
Putting a few quid on Dublin(draw no bet at 7/4) to beat Kilkenny. Considering Galway's performances against Tipp and Laois, Kilkenny's form against Galway wasn't impressive.
See Davy had a row with a journalist from the Clare champion after the match. He's not well.
Tipp much stronger with paudie maher out in the half back line. He's too aggressive for full back.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 05, 2014, 08:38:31 PM
Total fade out by Galway in the second half but the game swung on Tipp's second goal and the failure of the Galway management to make the most obvious change that was never made. I felt sorry for Ronan Burke out there but you could see within 20 minutes that they needed to send Johnny Coen in on Callanan to match him for pace. That'll be it for Cunningham and while he didn't have alot to work with, his reign will be defined by dreadful tactical decision making.
When the commentator kept saying that the Galway full back was learning on the job, you knew he was liable to struggle. Callinan finished with 3-8- serious Tally.
Ok Galway folded but Joe never came out for the 2nd half at all. 3 touches was it in 2nd half for Joe. Talking Paudie Maher out of full back was key. That really stemmed the Galway flow.
Must be awful frustrating being a Galway fan. A serious team for blowing hot and cold. Really threw it up to the Cats in their first match and showed a lot of mettle in the final stages of the second half. Fair enough they lost the replay which is no disgrace against Kilkenny. But like other years, just when you think they might show something they inevitably fail to deliver.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 06, 2014, 01:02:03 AM
Must be awful frustrating being a Galway fan. A serious team for blowing hot and cold. Really threw it up to the Cats in their first match and showed a lot of mettle in the final stages of the second half. Fair enough they lost the replay which is no disgrace against Kilkenny. But like other years, just when you think they might show something they inevitably fail to deliver.
You said it Tony. A poster on the Galway forum summed it up well that even when we were six points up and flying with 20 minutes to go, he still felt we would lose. I had that feeling too. The first day against Kilkenny was a good performance by our standards but I don't buy the inconsistency (Which Galway will show up? etc.) thing. Aside from that game our championship performances have been dismal for the last 2 years. I've heard people saying that we consistently under-perform, but if you do anything consistently then that's your level and our level right now is just slightly above Laois, Antrim and Offaly who would all relish a championship match against us, and have a realistic chance of winning. That's not negative, just an honest assessment of where we are based on results and performances.
If your players aren't the best, you need clever management and I'm not sure what our sideline was thinking. Nicky English mentioned 5 or 6 times in the first half alone about Tipp needing to exploit the mismatch for pace between Callanan and Burke. It was jumping off the page. Burke is a good player too who might well have benefitted from a switch. Nicky would be a good man for the job actually, but he'd have more sense than to take it.
Not to worry, there's always next year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 06, 2014, 12:34:16 AM
Tipp much stronger with paudie maher out in the half back line. He's too aggressive for full back.
That was a switch that changed the game as well and Galway's injuries around midfield killed us. I think Brehony, Smyth, D Burke and Tannian all went off injured and a few of the subs couldn't get near the ball. I hear Cunningham is already talking about coming back next year. I think he's a bit deluded about how bad we've been the last 2 years. Time for a change.
He said after the game to Damian lawlor that he was staying on.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 06, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 06, 2014, 12:34:16 AM
Tipp much stronger with paudie maher out in the half back line. He's too aggressive for full back.
That was a switch that changed the game as well and Galway's injuries around midfield killed us. I think Brehony, Smyth, D Burke and Tannian all went off injured and a few of the subs couldn't get near the ball. I hear Cunningham is already talking about coming back next year. I think he's a bit deluded about how bad we've been the last 2 years. Time for a change.
Is there not some programme for Galway hurling involving under 16, minors and a development squad that feeds into the senior team ?
I'd say this crowd will win an allIreland. Most of them are barely out of under 21 and as long as they learn from this they'll be fine. The CB will probably give him thr chop.
In fairness to Cunningham he's had the Galway team playing with aggression and giving it everything(something we didn't always see in the past) and the fade out came after we lost a few players around the middle to injury, so on reflection he's been a bit unlucky this year. I was overly harsh on him yesterday but I was disappointed after the game. If the players want him to stay on, maybe he should be kept, because at least we went down fighting and we've introduced some quality young players this year.
I still think he should have switched Johnny Coen and Ronan Burke and the failure to make a change after Burke got booked in the first half was a glaring error, given the way Callanan was running at him.
We still need a few more players to come through to win an All-Ireland. Our forwards can't win enough ball to take the pressure off our backs and we're only scoring about 15 points a game(not including goals). I don't think those forwards will win an All-Ireland and we need 2 or 3 more really exceptional forwards to come through from underage and a couple more options at the back too, with Collins and Moore the wrong side of 30.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 06, 2014, 09:14:07 PM
In fairness to Cunningham he's had the Galway team playing with aggression and giving it everything(something we didn't always see in the past) and the fade out came after we lost a few players around the middle to injury, so on reflection he's been a bit unlucky this year. I was overly harsh on him yesterday but I was disappointed after the game. If the players want him to stay on, maybe he should be kept, because at least we went down fighting and we've introduced some quality young players this year.
I still think he should have switched Johnny Coen and Ronan Burke and the failure to make a change after Burke got booked in the first half was a glaring error, given the way Callanan was running at him.
We still need a few more players to come through to win an All-Ireland. Our forwards can't win enough ball to take the pressure off our backs and we're only scoring about 15 points a game(not including goals). I don't think those forwards will win an All-Ireland and we need 2 or 3 more really exceptional forwards to come through from underage and a couple more options at the back too, with Collins and Moore the wrong side of 30.
We do need more depth alright and the tactical side is not good enough but as long as it's building into something and the players are developing rather than being prematurely discarded I'd be happy. There isn't going to be any county dominating things for the next 5 years I'd say and if they can bring on the players either with the current management or another who continue the work being done then we should have some longer summers to look forward to.
It's much better than the Offaly situation ;)
They are trying to build a team around the 2012 minors
GALWAY : S Mannion; C Diviney, P Killeen, P Mannion; A Tuohy (0-1), S Sweeney, J Hanbury; P Brehony (0-4), D Higgins (0-1); J Flynn (0-3), J Glynn, B Lane; G O'Donoghue (0-1), J Carr (0-1), S Maloney (1-9, six frees). Subs : K Cullinane for Higgins (54 mins), M Mullins for Hanbury (54 mins), D Dolan (0-1) for O'Donoghue (55 mins), P Flaherty for Carr (58 mins).
and the 2012 u21s
GALWAY : J Ryan; D Connolly, N Donoghue, G O'Halloran; J Grealish, P Gordon, R Foy; J Coen, D Burke (0-3, 0-2 frees); C Cooney (0-1), N Burke (0-3, 0-2 frees), T Haran (1-3, 1-0 pen); J Regan (1-2), B Daly, D Glennon (1-2). Subs : R Burke for Gordan (18 mins), B Burke for Haran (41 mins), D Fox for Cooney (55 mins), N Quinn for N Burke (57 mins), D Cooney for D Burke (62 mins).
The 87 win was built on the 83 minors and u21s.
Niall Donoghue RIP was a big loss as well . He was going to be the full back.
Cunningham is always talking about the team learning.
Asal
They got a very poor return from the 2004/05 minors and the 2005 u21s. I think they are trying to improve that side of things now.
If they click we could have a meitheal of all Irelands down the line :D
I think Galway will win the hurling before Mayo win the football
Minor recall: Old foes from 2004 final still stamping their class on national stage
The last All-Ireland minor hurling final replay was 2004. It was between Galway and Kilkenny, but, eight years on, only a handful of those teenagers have survived the rigours of the senior ranks.
Joe Canning is one of them. Still only 15 years old, he contributed a point from full forward in the 3-12 to 1-18 draw at Croke Park, but it was his impact seven days later that brought this once-in-a-lifetime hurler on to the national stage.
Kerril Wade was Galway's chief marksman, but come the replay in Tullamore it was Canning's breathtaking sideline cuts that had a huge impact, not only on the game's outcome but those moments of genius sparked a wonderful hurling story.
It was Richie Hogan's point that forced matters to a second outing, but the Danesfort sharp-shooter only registered 0-1 in the replay. Elder brother Paddy landed three placed balls.
Others involved then and this weekend are Kevin Hynes for Galway and Matthew Ruth for Kilkenny.
Galway won the replay 0-16 to 1-12 with their manager Mattie Murphy making a prediction afterwards: "And I tell you this much. Wait four or five years and we'll be heard of in the senior ranks too." It actually took three more years then Mattie predicted.
In the meantime, some quality hurlers, such as John Lee and Wade, are no longer on the scene.
GALWAY: M Herlihy; P Loughnane, G Mahon, C ODonovan; M Ryan, J Lee, J Hughes; A Keary, D Kennedy; K Kilkenny (0-1), K Hynes (0-2), F Coone (0-2); K Wade (0-7, six frees), J Canning (0-4, two sidelines, one free), B Hanley. Subs: D White for Ryan (22 mins).
2005 u21
"Kilkenny were going for a three-in-a-row and we put a stop to it," said Mullins. "It's '96 since we won it and this is worth an awful lot to Galway hurling now that we've won the minor and under-21 - a lot more guys will come through." (they didn't)
GALWAY: A Ryan; P Flynn, A Gaynor, K Briscoe; G Mahon, B Cullinane, D Collins (0-1, free); B Lucas (0-1), A Garvey; J Gantley, A Callanan (1-1), E Ryan; N Healy (0-1), K Burke (capt, 0-2), K Wade (0-8, five frees, one 65). Replacements: F Coone for Ryan (26 mins), C Dervan (0-1) for Gantley (43 mins), D Kelly for Cullinane (49 mins).
KILKENNY: D Fogarty; S Maher, J Tennyson, D Cody; J Dalton, PJ Delaney, C Hoyne; M Fennelly (0-1), M Rice; E Larkin (1-9, eight points frees), A Murphy, W O'Dwyer (0-1); E Reid (capt, 0-1), J Fitzpatrick (0-2), R Power. B: D McCormack for Murphy (41 mins).
Looking at that Kilkenny team that we beat in the 05 u-21s, there's about 6 all stars and god knows how many senior All-Ireland winner medals in there. You're right seafoid, we're getting more from the recent underage successes and the 2012 minor team reminded me how young some of these guys still are. That would mean Glynn, Flynn, Brehony, Killeen and Maloney are still u-21 this year and next?
It's a good sign that Cunningham is so eager to stay on. He must see the potential for an All-Ireland in them. Where there's youth there's hope but we do not to find a fair bit of improvement.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 07, 2014, 12:06:23 AM
Looking at that Kilkenny team that we beat in the 05 u-21s, there's about 6 all stars and god knows how many senior All-Ireland winner medals in there. You're right seafoid, we're getting more from the recent underage successes and the 2012 minor team reminded me how young some of these guys still are. That would mean Glynn, Flynn, Brehony, Killeen and Maloney are still u-21 this year and next?
It's a good sign that Cunningham is so eager to stay on. He must see the potential for an All-Ireland in them. Where there's youth there's hope but we do not to find a fair bit of improvement.
I just noticed that 2011 was the year they did the underage double so those lads would be ok for u21 this yearonly. Clare have 3 u21s in the last 5 years. Counties that have the systems to get these players into high performance senior teams will win stuff. The hurlers are similar to the footballers in that they have a lot of good younger players but not so many older fellas who have the experience. It will take time to change the system.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 04:16:09 PM
Quote from: AQMP on July 05, 2014, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
Great start for Wexford, can they keep it going? I wonder who Davy will blame today if this ends in a defeat
The ref by the looks of it. Clear red card. Hit him with the stick and then pulled the face mask. Take your pick
These players know from the start that any interference with a helmet will be dealt with a red card, pure stupidity, and who does Davy go to at half time? Yeah the referee, if I was the manager I'd be giving my a lot of grief for fecking things up
He must have regained his composure for the postmatch interview where he said it was a silly rule and not the referees fault, the silliness is that of Paudge Collins for doing it in the first place.
Our minors seem to be very well prepared and maybe some of the minor titles we won were more down to that rather than producing the outstanding individuals you need for senior success. With Andy Smith, Tannian, Collins and Moore all near the end it'll all depend on what comes through in the next few years. We have a lot of positions to fill and we lack really top class players like Richie Hogan, Reid and Murphy in Kilkenny or Brendan Maher, Padraig Maher and (inconsistently) Seamus Callanan in Tipp.
Conor Whelan and Darragh Dolan looked good prospects on last year's minor team and an U-21 title this year would be a strong possibility for us and a big boost for morale.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 07, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
Our minors seem to be very well prepared and maybe some of the minor titles we won were more down to that rather than producing the outstanding individuals you need for senior success. With Andy Smith, Tannian, Collins and Moore all near the end it'll all depend on what comes through in the next few years. We have a lot of positions to fill and we lack really top class players like Richie Hogan, Reid and Murphy in Kilkenny or Brendan Maher, Padraig Maher and (inconsistently) Seamus Callanan in Tipp.
Conor Whelan and Darragh Dolan looked good prospects on last year's minor team and an U-21 title this year would be a strong possibility for us and a big boost for morale.
Those lads are ok for another 2 years anyway. There are so few of them because so many were lost.
Would Kevin Hynes not be able to play somewhere other than full back which is not his best position ?
Quote from: johnneycool on July 07, 2014, 12:41:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 04:16:09 PM
Quote from: AQMP on July 05, 2014, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
Great start for Wexford, can they keep it going? I wonder who Davy will blame today if this ends in a defeat
The ref by the looks of it. Clear red card. Hit him with the stick and then pulled the face mask. Take your pick
These players know from the start that any interference with a helmet will be dealt with a red card, pure stupidity, and who does Davy go to at half time? Yeah the referee, if I was the manager I'd be giving my a lot of grief for fecking things up
He must have regained his composure for the postmatch interview where he said it was a silly rule and not the referees fault, the silliness is that of Paudge Collins for doing it in the first place.
What a fecking dcik. A silly rule cause his player was caught doing it, had it been a Wexford player and he got off with it he'd have blown a fuse.
Quote from: seafoid on July 07, 2014, 03:06:14 PM
Those lads are ok for another 2 years anyway. There are so few of them because so many were lost.
Would Kevin Hynes not be able to play somewhere other than full back which is not his best position ?
I think he plays midfield for Sarsfields but like many others on the panel he looks a bit slow to me and the modern game demands fast, athletic midfielders like Brehony and Smith. Those two are fine but the lack of quality cover was exposed against Tipp. We really felt the losses of Cyril Donnellan and Damien Hayes(who obviously isn't the player he was) around the middle, half-forward line too.
You're right about giving young players more time. So many talented players were discarded after one bad game. Last year, Conor Cooney looked like he wasn't up to it and in the past he would have been thrown aside while we tried out the next young talent, but he was probably our player of the year this year.
That last 20 minutes against Galway felt as good as the closing minutes against the Cats when we stopped the 5 in a row. 2-10 to 0-1 we outscored them by.
Pity the ref didn't add on another 20! 8)
Are repeat matches blocked for the Quarter finals?
Assuming Cork beat Limerick, that would mean Tipperary will be playing Dublin.
Tipperary lads are gas. Everything is rosy in the garden now because of a late surge against a knackered team. When they beat Offaly they'll be on the road to an All Ireland. Then Kilkenny or someone will beat them, and Eamonn O'Shea will be disemboweled in Liberty Square.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 08, 2014, 11:17:21 AM
That last 20 minutes against Galway felt as good as the closing minutes against the Cats when we stopped the 5 in a row. 2-10 to 0-1 we outscored them by.
Pity the ref didn't add on another 20! 8)
Long time no see. Jumping back on the ould bandwagon, eh? Looking forward to reading your boastful sh!te for a few weeks before you vanish without a trace after Tipp's next beating. ;)
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 08, 2014, 11:22:17 AM
, that would mean Tipperary will be playing Dublin.
Probably now in Croker as a neutral venue to stop the Tipp lads getting all their games at home. ;)
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 08, 2014, 11:17:21 AM
That last 20 minutes against Galway felt as good as the closing minutes against the Cats when we stopped the 5 in a row. 2-10 to 0-1 we outscored them by.
Pity the ref didn't add on another 20! 8)
Glad it made you happy. Personally, I'm always thrilled when we beat Cork or KK, or even Clare, one of the big counties. Beating Tipp is just... meh.
Quote from: mouview on July 09, 2014, 09:45:06 PM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 08, 2014, 11:17:21 AM
That last 20 minutes against Galway felt as good as the closing minutes against the Cats when we stopped the 5 in a row. 2-10 to 0-1 we outscored them by.
Pity the ref didn't add on another 20! 8)
Glad it made you happy. Personally, I'm always thrilled when we beat Cork or KK, or even Clare, one of the big counties. Beating Tipp is just... meh.
Waterford, the dubs or KK but not Tipp
Will Wexford give Clare their fill of it on Saturday evening or will the U-21's playing on wednesday and Clares hope for an improved performance see them over the line.
Wee Liam Dunne has Wexford motoring rightly and if they can keep some of those young lads going till the end then they might just do it, McDonald and Liam Ryan, the U-21 fullback look to be the real deal.
Clare are still a bit jaded to me and are stumbling along, not sure for how long though!!
Quote from: johnneycool on July 11, 2014, 12:27:39 PM
Will Wexford give Clare their fill of it on Saturday evening or will the U-21's playing on wednesday and Clares hope for an improved performance see them over the line.
Wee Liam Dunne has Wexford motoring rightly and if they can keep some of those young lads going till the end then they might just do it, McDonald and Liam Ryan, the U-21 fullback look to be the real deal.
Clare are still a bit jaded to me and are stumbling along, not sure for how long though!!
Great to see Wexford going so well. I thought they were sliding into obscurity a couple of years ago but they're back, and in an era where no team looks that outstanding, could be challenging for an All-Ireland soon.
Yeah, Wexford's revival is a real bonus for hurling. I was wondering whether winning the Leinster Under-21 title last year was a fluke. Doesn't look that way, which is great. One of the most invigorating games I was ever at was a qualifier against Wexford in Nowlan Park in 2003. They gave us a right kicking in the end (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2003/07/12/waterford-0-18-18-wexford-1-20-23/), but it was a vision of what the championship in the back door era might be. New rivalries, new venues, new memories. Wouldn't mind revisiting that!
(Their new kit is just wrong though.)
Quote from: deiseach on July 11, 2014, 02:10:08 PM
Yeah, Wexford's revival is a real bonus for hurling. I was wondering whether winning the Leinster Under-21 title last year was a fluke. Doesn't look that way, which is great. One of the most invigorating games I was ever at was a qualifier against Wexford in Nowlan Park in 2003. They gave us a right kicking in the end (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2003/07/12/waterford-0-18-18-wexford-1-20-23/), but it was a vision of what the championship in the back door era might be. New rivalries, new venues, new memories. Wouldn't mind revisiting that!
(Their new kit is just wrong though.)
Its not a wrong as that washed out looking Gaelic Gear mess they had back in the 00'ies
Its hard to look past Tipp in the other qualifier as Offaly are a good bit behind the rest of the remaining teams.
a big margin may gloss over some of Tipps weaknesses as I see Paudie back on the edge of the square!!
They really need to find a No.3 before a tougher challenge arises and Paudie isn't the answer.
Oh, Derry and Antrim do battle in Owenbeg, Antrim seem to be resting a few, should still have enough for Derry although no one gives as shit about this any more.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 11, 2014, 03:23:31 PM
a big margin may gloss over some of Tipps weaknesses as I see Paudie back on the edge of the square!!
They really need to find a No.3 before a tougher challenge arises and Paudie isn't the answer.
Pretty surprising. He's the best wing-back in the country and can dominate a game from there. Even if he does ok at full-back they lose too much by placing him there.
You'd hate to be a ref or a journalist this evening, especially if Clare get bate. Clare down to 13. Davy's blood pressure through the roof.
Wexford hit the front ! Send for the Gardai.
Jez Wexford are shite. Can't beat 13? Fair due to Claire. Back to 15 now!
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 12, 2014, 06:34:20 PM
Jez Wexford are shite. Can't beat 13? Fair due to Claire. Back to 15 now!
Wexford couldn't believe the situation they were in and seemed to wilt under the pressure. Clare with 15 will be hard to beat now. Liam Dunne's face before the last 65 went over seemed to me to say " if this goes over we're cooked".
Great excitement.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 12, 2014, 06:34:20 PM
Back to 15 now!
Always thought that was a stupid rule.
Also It didn't look like a Wexford player touched that ball for the '65.
Quote from: laoislad on July 12, 2014, 06:41:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 12, 2014, 06:34:20 PM
Back to 15 now!
Always thought that was a stupid rule.
It didn't look like a Wexford player touched that ball for the '65.
I actually think it's a good rule. If a team like wexford can't take advantage in 70 minutes they don't deserve 20 with a numbers advantage. Besides the Red carded players can't be used.
Ref has his hands full here.
Wexford made some balls of that
Never a 65 surely??
Ref denied clare some clear free ins though so balanced out.
Still think wexford will win. Some ball for that goal.
Brilliant excitement. Wexford 2 up thanks to a great goal just as Clare looked to be going well into the breeze.
Spectators are getting some value for their money.
Commentator's curse. Chin having some game.
Neither team deserves to lose this.
Jack guiney is a good 'un.
Dubious free out.
I don't think the ref is doing clare any favours to clare.
Wonder are davy's comments having a bearing
Wexford win it. What a game. What a performance by Wexford to win it in extra time.
Great game. Pity somebody had to lose. Davy won't be happy with ref ( again ).
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 12, 2014, 07:09:37 PM
I don't think the ref is doing clare any favours to clare.
Wonder are davy's comments having a bearing
It shouldn't matter what Davy says. A free is a free and refs are supposed to be impartial. There was a lot of fouling going on by both sides. I'd agree that the ref didn't do Clare any favours.
The sendings off never in doubt though. Couple of dubious ones but wexford probably deserved it. Corner forward murdered clare and ff not bad either.
I wonder what odds Wexford were going into ET. I think the frenetic nature of the match in the closing stages masked a lot of poor play. Wexford struggled against 13 and I was sure they were for the chop in ET.
Tipp 5-25 Offaly 1-20.
http://www.clarechampion.ie/davy-and-champion-reporter-clash/
Sounds like there would have been a good contest here if it had been allowed to develop. Davy's father isn't soft.
Looking at Peter O'Connell's Twitter account, he is still stirring the pot. There could be a good scrap some of these evenings round Sixmilebridge or Clarecastle. My money is on Davy although O'Connell wasn't running away last Saturday in the tunnel.
When Davy wins, it's all great. When he loses he's an embarrassment.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 12, 2014, 09:02:45 PM
Tipp 5-25 Offaly 1-20.
Offaly conceded 2 goals in the first couple of minutes, were down by 10 at half time. Got it back to 4 points with 20 minutes to go before Tipp upped it again.
Corbett and Callanan did serious damage on the scoreboard - 2 goals each and Offaly never got to grips with them.
G what where the bets the Clare footballers would be in longer than the Hurlers
Poor old davy and the adversity. Paranoid man.
How did Tipperary manage to get home advantage against Dublin?
I thought this stage of the qualifiers was supposed to be neutral.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2014, 12:46:31 AM
Poor old davy and the adversity. Paranoid man.
Well he's going to have a go at St Ger Lock now as well who IMO rightly criticised the way Clare tackle and lack of discipline in the tackle. The referees have been clamping down on it and rightly so but as Kilkenny tackle in a similar manner it'll be interesting how the referees approach that one with Cody along the line.
FWIW there must be a derth of intercounty referees about as all we see is Barry Kelly's boat race, he was doing the line on Saturday night and yet again intervened to Clares detriment, rightly or wrongly.
I think running the line could be a way of bringing in lesser referees into the top level rather than referees who already get plenty of game time.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 15, 2014, 09:13:29 AM
FWIW there must be a derth of intercounty referees about as all we see is Barry Kelly's boat race, he was doing the line on Saturday night and yet again intervened to Clares detriment, rightly or wrongly.
Fair play to him for being pro-active and getting involved though. Better that than the attitude of the umpires, who missed a blatant square ball and as a group seem to have as much interest as the lad holding the stop/go sign at a roadworks site.
Quote from: Roashter on July 15, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
How did Tipperary manage to get home advantage against Dublin?
Garth Brooks!
This game will mark the end of Anthony Daly spell over Dublin. There is a delicious irony that Tipp will be the ones to finish him off, 17 years after his taunting of us from the victory podium.
I hope we don't get a repeat of the scenes the last time Dublin travelled in numbers to Thurles, with half of them getting lost along the way.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 15, 2014, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: Roashter on July 15, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
How did Tipperary manage to get home advantage against Dublin?
Garth Brooks!
This game will mark the end of Anthony Daly spell over Dublin. There is a delicious irony that Tipp will be the ones to finish him off, 17 years after his taunting of us from the victory podium.
I hope we don't get a repeat of the scenes the last time Dublin travelled in numbers to Thurles, with half of them getting lost along the way.
The last time Tipp played in Croke Park, their fans must have thought the team on the pitch got lost somewhere along the way with the way they played.
As expected Tipp now back in the race after finishing off a tired and depleted Galway and then a way off the pace Offaly.
Dublin will be a very different proposition to those two teams and Tipp will need to step up a few gears to stay in the running.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 17, 2014, 09:29:08 AM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 15, 2014, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: Roashter on July 15, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
How did Tipperary manage to get home advantage against Dublin?
Garth Brooks!
This game will mark the end of Anthony Daly spell over Dublin. There is a delicious irony that Tipp will be the ones to finish him off, 17 years after his taunting of us from the victory podium.
I hope we don't get a repeat of the scenes the last time Dublin travelled in numbers to Thurles, with half of them getting lost along the way.
The last time Tipp played in Croke Park, their fans must have thought the team on the pitch got lost somewhere along the way with the way they played.
As expected Tipp now back in the race after finishing off a tired and depleted Galway and then a way off the pace Offaly.
Dublin will be a very different proposition to those two teams and Tipp will need to step up a few gears to stay in the running.
Dublin would need to look at their tactics in view of how they played against Kilkenny, was surprised they didn't change it sooner, was this a ploy? I don't know. Would teams prefer to go down the qualifiers route rather than wait 6 weeks till semis?
This Dublin team showed a lot more to their hurling than the performance last time out, the game seemed to (well from watching it on tv) be very slow. Anyways as you have said Tipp can't go into this game thinking it's only Dublin, can't see Dublin playing as bad and with the intensity (or lack of) next time out
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2014, 10:03:26 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on July 17, 2014, 09:29:08 AM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 15, 2014, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: Roashter on July 15, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
How did Tipperary manage to get home advantage against Dublin?
Garth Brooks!
This game will mark the end of Anthony Daly spell over Dublin. There is a delicious irony that Tipp will be the ones to finish him off, 17 years after his taunting of us from the victory podium.
I hope we don't get a repeat of the scenes the last time Dublin travelled in numbers to Thurles, with half of them getting lost along the way.
The last time Tipp played in Croke Park, their fans must have thought the team on the pitch got lost somewhere along the way with the way they played.
As expected Tipp now back in the race after finishing off a tired and depleted Galway and then a way off the pace Offaly.
Dublin will be a very different proposition to those two teams and Tipp will need to step up a few gears to stay in the running.
Dublin would need to look at their tactics in view of how they played against Kilkenny, was surprised they didn't change it sooner, was this a ploy? I don't know. Would teams prefer to go down the qualifiers route rather than wait 6 weeks till semis?
This Dublin team showed a lot more to their hurling than the performance last time out, the game seemed to (well from watching it on tv) be very slow. Anyways as you have said Tipp can't go into this game thinking it's only Dublin, can't see Dublin playing as bad and with the intensity (or lack of) next time out
I can never understand Daly and his tactics at times, he over complicates it too much IMO.
I bet he'll want to deploy a sweeper in front of Callinan and Corbett, but in Kelly and Schutte they've probably two of the best defenders to go toe to toe with Tipps deadly duo leaving an even number out the field to restrict the supply and quality into them.
Kilkenny killed them by having Tyrrell picking out his forwards at will due to their defensive set up and leaving a man spare. This Tipp defence isn't great and will concede big scores if enough ball comes in, but leave them a spare man and they'll follow the KK model and negate the covering defender.
Come on Antony, show a bit of confidence and line them out 15 on 15, they're good enough for it.
The hurling has been brilliant so far this year. Wexford and Waterford played out a thriller. Wexford and Limerick now.
Just won a couple of tickets for this weekend's games in Thurles. Could I take the young boys along as well? How much would I be looking at for admittance they're 5 & 1?
It was a exciting game in Kilkenny on Saturday night with a great atmosphere in the stadium and around the town. The noise from the Wexford fans when the final whistle went was amazing. Waterford did well to come back into it with Dunford's two goals and went ahead but we only scored 1 point after that and Wexford deserved the win. It'll be tough for them facing Limerick again next week. Peter Canavan was on Today fm earlier and was at the match and really enjoyed it and was comparing it with the disappointing football championship so far.
It's Waterford 3rd year in a row to fail to get to Croke Park so times have changed but it is a young team in general so I wasn't expecting too much this year.
A hard week for Waterford hurling. I can live with losing in a slugfest with Limerick last night in the Munster Minor final, and the Seniors also went down fighting (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/07/21/waterford-2-15-21-wexford-3-15-24/) to a resurgent Wexford. But the result I fear typifies the medium term future of Waterford hurling was a sickening loss at home last Wednesday to the Cork Under-21's. I had high hopes for that team, a combination of players already blooded at Senior level and All-Ireland Minors, but as soon as they came under any pressure they imploded. Grim times ahead.
So what has Wexford done this year to raise the standard? They may come a cropper next week with all the extra hurling they have been doing or it may just give them the sharpness to outscore Limerick. Once Cork got on top of Limerick it looked easy, so it will be interesting to see how this develops, both teams have come out strong in the first half
I'll take Wexford (providing they haven't picked up injuries) to keep the momentum going, to think Antrim beat Wexford not that long ago, but Wexford give us a roasting this year, all good in terms of progressing teams
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2014, 11:16:10 AM
So what has Wexford done this year to raise the standard? They may come a cropper next week with all the extra hurling they have been doing or it may just give them the sharpness to outscore Limerick. Once Cork got on top of Limerick it looked easy, so it will be interesting to see how this develops, both teams have come out strong in the first half
I'll take Wexford (providing they haven't picked up injuries) to keep the momentum going, to think Antrim beat Wexford not that long ago, but Wexford give us a roasting this year, all good in terms of progressing teams
Wexfords current rise started a good few years ago with the appointment of their hurling Czar of George O'Connor to get in place the right structures for Wexford, not a copy of the Dublin model or the Clare model, but for Wexford. I'm sure he took ideas from them, but to put these types of structures in place you need to know the lie of the land.
I don't think they've won a Leinster minor championship in a long while, but are now competitive and with that comes good hurlers which is where the current crop and last years crop of U-21's have come from.
They gave Clare a good rattle last year so this years evolution wasn't really that big of a surprise although Dublin saw them off in Leinster and that was probably a set back of sorts for them, but they've recovered well and in Liam Dunne they've a hardy, astute manager who knows a thing or two.
I think everyone has enjoyed the yellow belly's joyful resurgence. Seemed different when Dublin we're making inroads against the top sides.
Only time will tell if Wexford enthusiasm will last for a sustained period or if they'll dine out on these recent performances (like Tipp appear to have been doing)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2014, 11:16:10 AM
So what has Wexford done this year to raise the standard? They may come a cropper next week with all the extra hurling they have been doing or it may just give them the sharpness to outscore Limerick. Once Cork got on top of Limerick it looked easy, so it will be interesting to see how this develops, both teams have come out strong in the first half
I'll take Wexford (providing they haven't picked up injuries) to keep the momentum going, to think Antrim beat Wexford not that long ago, but Wexford give us a roasting this year, all good in terms of progressing teams
I remember reading this at the time especially the bit about cutting in half one players body fat. They are a big strong physical team with a nice blend of skill & pace. Their fitness has certainly came though in the last 3/4 weeks
http://m.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-a-manly-game-but-how-far-do-you-let-the-manly-go-30013595.html
Quote from: deiseach on July 23, 2014, 09:49:39 AM
A hard week for Waterford hurling. I can live with losing in a slugfest with Limerick last night in the Munster Minor final, and the Seniors also went down fighting (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/07/21/waterford-2-15-21-wexford-3-15-24/) to a resurgent Wexford. But the result I fear typifies the medium term future of Waterford hurling was a sickening loss at home last Wednesday to the Cork Under-21's. I had high hopes for that team, a combination of players already blooded at Senior level and All-Ireland Minors, but as soon as they came under any pressure they imploded. Grim times ahead.
A bit surprised at the pessimism deiseach(although I'm worse when it comes to Galway). Still early days for last year's minors and the next couple of years will tell a lot. I think there was only 4 or 5 of them on your u-21 team this year and they'll develop a lot physically in the next 12 months. I'm looking forward to seeing how good Austin Gleeson will get. Sky's the limit for that boy. I reckon I'd hit a better penalty though.
Great article btw.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 24, 2014, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 23, 2014, 09:49:39 AM
A hard week for Waterford hurling. I can live with losing in a slugfest with Limerick last night in the Munster Minor final, and the Seniors also went down fighting (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/07/21/waterford-2-15-21-wexford-3-15-24/) to a resurgent Wexford. But the result I fear typifies the medium term future of Waterford hurling was a sickening loss at home last Wednesday to the Cork Under-21's. I had high hopes for that team, a combination of players already blooded at Senior level and All-Ireland Minors, but as soon as they came under any pressure they imploded. Grim times ahead.
A bit surprised at the pessimism deiseach(although I'm worse when it comes to Galway). Still early days for last year's minors and the next couple of years will tell a lot. I think there was only 4 or 5 of them on your u-21 team this year and they'll develop a lot physically in the next 12 months. I'm looking forward to seeing how good Austin Gleeson will get. Sky's the limit for that boy. I reckon I'd hit a better penalty though.
Great article btw.
Thank you. We've now lost the opener for each of the last five years at Under-21 level and there is a clear link between the tactics being pursued at Under-21 and Senior level. There seems to be a dislocation past Minor level. At least in Galway you get some underage success! I suppose I am pessimistic, but I'm not disconsolate. Wexford won the All-Ireland in 1996 and within a decade they were being pounded by all and sundry. It's looking like they are back now. I think these things are cyclical and we'll get back someday.
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 24, 2014, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 23, 2014, 09:49:39 AM
A hard week for Waterford hurling. I can live with losing in a slugfest with Limerick last night in the Munster Minor final, and the Seniors also went down fighting (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/07/21/waterford-2-15-21-wexford-3-15-24/) to a resurgent Wexford. But the result I fear typifies the medium term future of Waterford hurling was a sickening loss at home last Wednesday to the Cork Under-21's. I had high hopes for that team, a combination of players already blooded at Senior level and All-Ireland Minors, but as soon as they came under any pressure they imploded. Grim times ahead.
A bit surprised at the pessimism deiseach(although I'm worse when it comes to Galway). Still early days for last year's minors and the next couple of years will tell a lot. I think there was only 4 or 5 of them on your u-21 team this year and they'll develop a lot physically in the next 12 months. I'm looking forward to seeing how good Austin Gleeson will get. Sky's the limit for that boy. I reckon I'd hit a better penalty though.
Great article btw.
Asal did you get a chance to read the thrybune on the tipp match ? They just go into superficial stuff.
And the negativity /nihilism of the fans. No structural analysis which is where the issues are IMO.
No wonder the fans are so negative and they win nathin'.
It is a vicious circle
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2014, 03:37:40 PM
Asal did you get a chance to read the thrybune on the tipp match ? They just go into superficial stuff.
And the negativity /nihilism of the fans. No structural analysis which is where the issues are IMO.
No wonder the fans are so negative and they win nathin'.
It is a vicious circle
I didn't get to read it seafoid. It's hard to be optimistic and I'm not sure what's causing the problem but some Galway fans definitely take a perverse pleasure in being overly negative, and seem to secretly delight in being proven right when we're beaten.
There's two ways to look at this season. One is that we ran Kilkenny close twice and were going well against Tipp until we lost some key players to injury. The other is that we scraped past Laois and got a freak draw against Kilkenny before being annihilated by Tipp once the pressure came on.
Either way, until we find a few more forwards who can win contested possession we'll struggle to beat any of the top counties. Our backs must have felt like they were hurling in a handball alley in the second half against Tipp, the way the ball kept coming back at them.
I sometimes wonder if our style is flawed and maybe we need to look at how the game is coached in Kilkenny and Cork. Our hurling seems to get the job done at the lower levels but at senior championship, where the intensity is greater and the space is much less, we struggle. We should send the minors into Leinster too, to prepare our young lads for how difficult it is to win an All-Ireland at senior.
Very hard to have any (genuine) optimism about it though.
Quote from: deiseach on July 24, 2014, 03:01:47 PM
Thank you. We've now lost the opener for each of the last five years at Under-21 level and there is a clear link between the tactics being pursued at Under-21 and Senior level. There seems to be a dislocation past Minor level. At least in Galway you get some underage success! I suppose I am pessimistic, but I'm not disconsolate. Wexford won the All-Ireland in 1996 and within a decade they were being pounded by all and sundry. It's looking like they are back now. I think these things are cyclical and we'll get back someday.
I didn't realise the u-21 record was as bad as that but I still don't think we'll know whether last year's minors will be a special bunch (like Cork u-21 1999, Tipp u-21 '10 or Clare u-21 '13) until next year anyway. They looked pretty special as minor winners in last year's final. I'm guessing that McGrath will be gone now, and that you won't be too upset about it.
Quote from: deiseach on July 24, 2014, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: Asal Mor on July 24, 2014, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 23, 2014, 09:49:39 AM
A hard week for Waterford hurling. I can live with losing in a slugfest with Limerick last night in the Munster Minor final, and the Seniors also went down fighting (http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/2014/07/21/waterford-2-15-21-wexford-3-15-24/) to a resurgent Wexford. But the result I fear typifies the medium term future of Waterford hurling was a sickening loss at home last Wednesday to the Cork Under-21's. I had high hopes for that team, a combination of players already blooded at Senior level and All-Ireland Minors, but as soon as they came under any pressure they imploded. Grim times ahead.
A bit surprised at the pessimism deiseach(although I'm worse when it comes to Galway). Still early days for last year's minors and the next couple of years will tell a lot. I think there was only 4 or 5 of them on your u-21 team this year and they'll develop a lot physically in the next 12 months. I'm looking forward to seeing how good Austin Gleeson will get. Sky's the limit for that boy. I reckon I'd hit a better penalty though.
Great article btw.
Thank you. We've now lost the opener for each of the last five years at Under-21 level and there is a clear link between the tactics being pursued at Under-21 and Senior level. There seems to be a dislocation past Minor level. At least in Galway you get some underage success! I suppose I am pessimistic, but I'm not disconsolate. Wexford won the All-Ireland in 1996 and within a decade they were being pounded by all and sundry. It's looking like they are back now. I think these things are cyclical and we'll get back someday.
Last year you were beat by a hairs breadth by Clare after losing a man to a red card, probably the toughest game Clare had all year, so there must have been some hurlers with potential on that team, so I wouldn't be getting overly pessimistic about them although I see a good few are on the senior panel already.
What is the tactical issue you have with the current set up?
Quote from: johnneycool on July 25, 2014, 09:04:22 AM
Last year you were beat by a hairs breadth by Clare after losing a man to a red card, probably the toughest game Clare had all year, so there must have been some hurlers with potential on that team, so I wouldn't be getting overly pessimistic about them although I see a good few are on the senior panel already.
What is the tactical issue you have with the current set up?
We did come close against Clare last year which made the implosion against Cork this year, when we had the man advantage, all the more galling. The problem is they are too negative. This bullshit of withdrawing players from the full-forward line . . . there were times when there wasn't a single Waterford player inside the opposition 45. This image from the replay against Cork was typical:
(http://www.comeonthedeise.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/09-Waterford-v-Cork-25-May-2014-500x375.jpg)
Dublin look very good value at 11/4 or 12/5 Draw No Bet. I'd be worried about Seamus Callanan who's looking like the phenomenal player he always had the talent to be, but Tipp have only beaten Galway and Offaly so 4/11 looks a bit off.
I was over at them, and while it was promising to be a great occasion, the first game killed all sense of atmosphere. I felt sorry for Wexford because limerick were in the mood to be brutal, and when Wexford missed those early chances they looked like a team that had emptied the tank.
Dublin were poor, and you'd think that is the end of Dalo. Great work he's done there but that had all the hallmarks of the end of a cycle. Tipp weren't good and cork will eat them if they don't improve massively. Their forwards are as tough as kittens fighting for ball, bar maybe Ryan and bonner maher. Dublin on the other hand are all about intensity. When they don't have that, they offer very little. This year they've not had that really.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 27, 2014, 08:48:09 PM
I was over at them, and while it was promising to be a great occasion, the first game killed all sense of atmosphere. I felt sorry for Wexford because limerick were in the mood to be brutal, and when Wexford missed those early chances they looked like a team that had emptied the tank.
Dublin were poor, and you'd think that is the end of Dalo. Great work he's done there but that had all the hallmarks of the end of a cycle. Tipp weren't good and cork will eat them if they don't improve massively. Their forwards are as tough as kittens fighting for ball, bar maybe Ryan and bonner maher. Dublin on the other hand are all about intensity. When they don't have that, they offer very little. This year they've not had that really.
Sums it up really, the lack of touch from the Dubs was dreadful, Rushe was the only lad that could hold his head up high, decent hurler when in the mood, Conal Keaney was just looking to get into the physical stuff rather than hurl, and he's a decent hurler when he gets going, Maher wasn't allowing that. What happened to Ryan this year for the dubs, he'd have scored a right few of those scores which would have at least kept them in contention
Testing
Two poor games on sunday which never got going at all;
Limerick had far too much for Wexford who didn't have the same vim and vigour about them and couldn't handle the aerial ability of the Limerick forwards, plus loads of passes, touches not coming off made a rod for their own back, poor way to finish off the year, but progress for them nonetheless. Big McDonald has as good a hand on him as anyone in the game, he'll be a handful for most fullbacks in the coming years.
Not sure about Limerick TBH, they hit an awful amount of wides from far out when you'd have thought they'd have given an early ball into their forwards, something they did against Cork as well so goals may be hard to come by, granted they got a few on Sunday, but the game was all but up at that stage, two on the blow for half time and a waltz in later in the second.
Can't see the Kilkenny lads allowing them to catch as much again although with two smallish wing backs in Walsh junior/Holden and Buckley and a not overly big midfield to cover in front you'd hope Limerick might get some joy there, but catching it is one thing, doing something useful with it after that is another thing, plus it wouldn't be the first time small Kilkenny lads out caught much bigger men.
TJ will need the quick ball into the spaces as a plan B to the likes of Mulcahy or Tobin to spread out the Kilkenny full back line, but he's got a pretty good fullback line and in Hickey probably the in form corner back at the moment and won't be bullied out of it like he was in the AI final a few years ago.
As for Tipp/Dublin, it was nearly more error strewn than the first game with Wexford getting a bit of leeway due to their heavy run of games. Tipp had the far better forwards and that was the telling factor although Callinan didn't get too much off Kelly and only picked up a few scores when he roamed away out the field to pick up scraps, he'll need to do much more in and around the house against Cork, who'll have noticed before now his inability to win his own ball when put under a bit of physical pressure, something Kelly was good at.
Dublin was disappointingly very poor and didn't really have a go at Tipp, some of the stickwork was something you'd see in the lower divisions and the lack of scoring forwards will be their achilles heel from going the extra yard to win an AI. In saying that Dublin whilst being outplayed were still in contention for most of the game, granted Tipp had a lead, but it wasn't insurmountable until the last 10 minutes, and apart from one save Gleeson had little to do all afternoon.
I'd say the Dubs hurling supporters are pretty frustrated at that, to go out with a whimper and not seem to really give it a go, so there'll be much soul searching in Dublin as to where they're going wrong and maybe the ever elaborate O'Cusack has a point about the dual players at minor, if they're not going to commit to hurling long term, is it a short term gain to play them at minor and subsequently prevent the development of other hurlers who may be of benefit to Dublin hurling, but who the hell knows at 18 years of age if they're going to make it on the senior football panel or not!!
Tipp still have an achilles heel at fullback as I'm not sure yer man Barry is the man they need in there, but it's too late now to change riders. They still lack that out and out aggression in their forwards with the very obvious exception of Bonnar Maher, but have some accurate forwards if the time and space becomes available, not sure Cork will that generous though.
Sadly its looking like another Cork, Kilkenny final for all the change last year, I think we're back to the status quo, although I'd suggest Limerick are probably more likely to spoil the party even if they've got the toughest test.
Think it may well be a Limerick / Tipperary final. Kilkenny should have won LF by 20 points or so but didn't and I would worry about their forward line.
Tbh, can't see Cork troubling Tipperary.
Would love to see Limerick win it out now.
Quote from: Canalman on July 29, 2014, 11:28:54 AM
Think it may well be a Limerick / Tipperary final. Kilkenny should have won LF by 20 points or so but didn't and I would worry about their forward line.
Tbh, can't see Cork troubling Tipperary.
Would love to see Limerick win it out now.
Cork will expose that soft underbelly of Tipp unlike Dublin and they'll fall for it, plus Cork have a far superior set of forwards in Lehane, Harnedy, Horgan, Cronin and Cadogan who will get the scores Dublin didn't get. affording their defence a bit of breathing space.
The battle between Bonnar Maher and the new lad Mark Ellis will depend on how the Tipp forwards get on scoring wise, Ellis needs at least parity to prevent Maher making scores for the rest, that would be a good days work for him.
It will be close enough and Tipp won't have the same fear of Cork as they do Kilkenny, but I still see Cork prevailing by two to three points.
I would love to see Limerick win, but by god its still hard to look past Kilkenny in any game at this stage of the year!!
johnney, Tipp don't fear Kilkenny. In fact the opposite. They may not be good enough for them, but Tipp don't fear Cork or Kilkenny. It's literally amazing for a blow in to see the ingrained belief they have, to the point of delusion sometimes. That's why Declan Ryan's 'sin' in 2012 was unforgivable as far as Tipp supporters were concerned.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 12:46:09 PM
johnney, Tipp don't fear Kilkenny. In fact the opposite. They may not be good enough for them, but Tipp don't fear Cork or Kilkenny. It's literally amazing for a blow in to see the ingrained belief they have, to the point of delusion sometimes. That's why Declan Ryan's 'sin' in 2012 was unforgivable as far as Tipp supporters were concerned.
Read somewhere that Tipperary went decades without losing to Kilkenny at one stage. A right bitter rivalry between them . KK really and I mean really love beating them.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 12:46:09 PM
johnney, Tipp don't fear Kilkenny. In fact the opposite. They may not be good enough for them, but Tipp don't fear Cork or Kilkenny. It's literally amazing for a blow in to see the ingrained belief they have, to the point of delusion sometimes. That's why Declan Ryan's 'sin' in 2012 was unforgivable as far as Tipp supporters were concerned.
Nah,
for me the Tipp hurlers certainly do fear Kilkenny and that's been their downfall in the last few meetings, every bit as good as stickmen, but not the conviction to go in hard and take the knocks that inevitably come your way in such meetings.
The 2012 thing was the epitome of this IMO, Ryan didn't trust his charges and wanted to 'protect' Corbett from big bad Jackie and made an embarrassment out of Tipp hurling. A lot of the same players are still there, nothing has changed.
No offence Johnney, but you're wrong on this one :) That's why what Declan Ryan did was deemed so unacceptable. Rightly or Wrongly a Tipp man will tell you he's the only lad to put manners on Kilkenny. I'm sure Premier Emperor will be along shortly to prove my point :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
No offence Johnney, but you're wrong on this one :) That's why what Declan Ryan did was deemed so unacceptable. Rightly or Wrongly a Tipp man will tell you he's the only lad to put manners on Kilkenny. I'm sure Premier Emperor will be along shortly to prove my point :D
I think we'll beg to differ on that one, when JJ was manhandling Lar in the League game, where were the Tipp Cavalry? That wouldn't have happened with Cormac Bonner or the likes about.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 29, 2014, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
No offence Johnney, but you're wrong on this one :) That's why what Declan Ryan did was deemed so unacceptable. Rightly or Wrongly a Tipp man will tell you he's the only lad to put manners on Kilkenny. I'm sure Premier Emperor will be along shortly to prove my point :D
I think we'll beg to differ on that one, when JJ was manhandling Lar in the League game, where were the Tipp Cavalry? That wouldn't have happened with Cormac Bonner or the likes about.
We'll agree to differ so, but maybe we are talking about different things. When you say team A are afraid of team B, I assume you mean afraid of their quality, and don't believe they can beat them. I would absolutely disagree that Tipperary have that sort of innate fear of any team. I remember the near salivating they were doing down here when KK were going for that 5 in a row.
However, if you mean individuals and their fear of being bullied by an opponent, then I think you have a point. However again, I don't think it's Kilkenny per se, but it strikes me that the Tipp forwards dislike winning any sort of dirty ball and that's a problem for them. Again though, that's not really the fear I thought you were referring to.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on July 29, 2014, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
No offence Johnney, but you're wrong on this one :) That's why what Declan Ryan did was deemed so unacceptable. Rightly or Wrongly a Tipp man will tell you he's the only lad to put manners on Kilkenny. I'm sure Premier Emperor will be along shortly to prove my point :D
I think we'll beg to differ on that one, when JJ was manhandling Lar in the League game, where were the Tipp Cavalry? That wouldn't have happened with Cormac Bonner or the likes about.
We'll agree to differ so, but maybe we are talking about different things. When you say team A are afraid of team B, I assume you mean afraid of their quality, and don't believe they can beat them. I would absolutely disagree that Tipperary have that sort of innate fear of any team. I remember the near salivating they were doing down here when KK were going for that 5 in a row.
However, if you mean individuals and their fear of being bullied by an opponent, then I think you have a point. However again, I don't think it's Kilkenny per se, but it strikes me that the Tipp forwards dislike winning any sort of dirty ball and that's a problem for them. Again though, that's not really the fear I thought you were referring to.
Yeah, we're talking about different things, any Tipp lad I've ever met never doubts their teams ability and the likes of Premier Emperor are two to a penny down there, he's probably considered normal in a Tipp context.
TBH, this team does have an abundance of ability, but not application and that will be their undoing against Cork.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 30, 2014, 09:15:57 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on July 29, 2014, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
No offence Johnney, but you're wrong on this one :) That's why what Declan Ryan did was deemed so unacceptable. Rightly or Wrongly a Tipp man will tell you he's the only lad to put manners on Kilkenny. I'm sure Premier Emperor will be along shortly to prove my point :D
I think we'll beg to differ on that one, when JJ was manhandling Lar in the League game, where were the Tipp Cavalry? That wouldn't have happened with Cormac Bonner or the likes about.
We'll agree to differ so, but maybe we are talking about different things. When you say team A are afraid of team B, I assume you mean afraid of their quality, and don't believe they can beat them. I would absolutely disagree that Tipperary have that sort of innate fear of any team. I remember the near salivating they were doing down here when KK were going for that 5 in a row.
However, if you mean individuals and their fear of being bullied by an opponent, then I think you have a point. However again, I don't think it's Kilkenny per se, but it strikes me that the Tipp forwards dislike winning any sort of dirty ball and that's a problem for them. Again though, that's not really the fear I thought you were referring to.
Yeah, we're talking about different things, any Tipp lad I've ever met never doubts their teams ability and the likes of Premier Emperor are two to a penny down there, he's probably considered normal in a Tipp context.
TBH, this team does have an abundance of ability, but not application and that will be their undoing against Cork.
They are like the Thurles Sarsfields team, great players, shit team
Quote from: Canalman on July 29, 2014, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 12:46:09 PM
johnney, Tipp don't fear Kilkenny. In fact the opposite. They may not be good enough for them, but Tipp don't fear Cork or Kilkenny. It's literally amazing for a blow in to see the ingrained belief they have, to the point of delusion sometimes. That's why Declan Ryan's 'sin' in 2012 was unforgivable as far as Tipp supporters were concerned.
Read somewhere that Tipperary went decades without losing to Kilkenny at one stage. A right bitter rivalry between them . KK really and I mean really love beating them.
Tipperary only lost to Kilkenny once in the championship between 1922 and and 2002
That's the root of the obsession and jealousy Kilkenny have towards us.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on August 01, 2014, 10:55:53 AM
Quote from: Canalman on July 29, 2014, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2014, 12:46:09 PM
johnney, Tipp don't fear Kilkenny. In fact the opposite. They may not be good enough for them, but Tipp don't fear Cork or Kilkenny. It's literally amazing for a blow in to see the ingrained belief they have, to the point of delusion sometimes. That's why Declan Ryan's 'sin' in 2012 was unforgivable as far as Tipp supporters were concerned.
Read somewhere that Tipperary went decades without losing to Kilkenny at one stage. A right bitter rivalry between them . KK really and I mean really love beating them.
Tipperary only lost to Kilkenny once in the championship between 1922 and and 2002
That's the root of the obsession and jealousy Kilkenny have towards us.
Not a bad record, but slightly tainted by the fact that from 1971 to 1987 you didn't get out of Munster and I was at the first drawn game with Cork but never made it to the replay when the hay was finally saved by Richie Stakelum and the lads.