So god knows when the Ulster Final will be played, he'd better as Jimmy Darragh interviewed on BBC last night sure couldn't enlighten us. When Mark Sidebottom did the promo for it at the start of the programme...What now for Ulster hurling sorted of thing, I waited patiently to hear what I thought was going to be an exposé on how the Ulster Council was going to transform the game...Boy was I disappointed both with Jimmy's sure we don't have the resources and the easy time he got from Sidebottom no hard question's from Mark, he needs to listen to Seamus McKee and learn. The bottom line seems to be that the Ulster Council like all county boards bar Antrim don't give a fiddlers about hurling or it's promotion.
Despite all this Clubs in Ulster struggle manfully with no money and scarce resources to keep our national game alive. It hasn't gone away but the UC needs to act now.
Not much money to be made from it up here.
Why do Antrim get to play in two provinces? They could (a long shot I know) win two provinces in the same year. Let the other counties compete for it. Antrim winning it year after year does nothing to help Ulster hurling.
What is needed is investment by the Ulster Council in clubs, coaching and infrastructure. A change is also required within the many football clubs who see hurling as a threat or a hinderance.
I've changed my tune on this issue over the years. I come from a strong dual club background, always played and supported both codes and would still have a strong interest in both. However, I'm not sure I care much anymore if Kilkenny play football or Tyrone play hurling. In an ideal world it would be great to have clubs and counties strong in both codes but in reality it causes a lot of aggro in many dual clubs and establishing the weaker code in clubs/counties where it has never had much of a tradition is throwing good money after bad in many cases. By all means help clubs who have a genuine interest in developing both codes and if enough clubs are playing both codes that county should get better in the weaker code but the idea that we have to develop hurling in Mayo, Tyrone or Cavan is wrong IMO. The applies to football in hurling counties, you'd be run out of Newtownshandrum for example if you tried to get football going and while I personally think it's a shame both codes aren't promoted there, it's their club and if football doesn't interest them then fair enough.
Quote from: Zulu on October 30, 2013, 02:05:32 PM
I've changed my tune on this issue over the years. I come from a strong dual club background, always played and supported both codes and would still have a strong interest in both. However, I'm not sure I care much anymore if Kilkenny play football or Tyrone play hurling. In an ideal world it would be great to have clubs and counties strong in both codes but in reality it causes a lot of aggro in many dual clubs and establishing the weaker code in clubs/counties where it has never had much of a tradition is throwing good money after bad in many cases. By all means help clubs who have a genuine interest in developing both codes and if enough clubs are playing both codes that county should get better in the weaker code but the idea that we have to develop hurling in Mayo, Tyrone or Cavan is wrong IMO. The applies to football in hurling counties, you'd be run out of Newtownshandrum for example if you tried to get football going and while I personally think it's a shame both codes aren't promoted there, it's their club and if football doesn't interest them then fair enough.
This is typical of the attitude held by many Nortern Gaels, there are many hurling only clubs in Ulster that given a fair wind could thrive. However many such as yourself are apathetic and as a result the game will never progress. The GAA exists to promote all our games not just the strongest in a particular area.
Well I'm not a northern gael for starters and the GAA doesn't exist to promote all our games, I've never seen a single thing done to promote handball or rounders in any club I'm familiar with. Each club and county exist on their own terms so to speak. An club that only wants to play football can't and shouldn't be forced to play hurling. If a number of people in the club want to start/develop hurling then the GAA will help and that is largely all they can do. There is a limited pool of money to develop games and wasting money on token initiatives to develop either game in areas where there is little interest is pointless.
If there are 'many' hurling only clubs in Ulster then I agree, the GAA should help them develop. However, single code clubs are no less a GAA club than dual ones and the hand ringing that goes on about not enough being done for one code or the other is misplaced outrage.
Quote from: Zulu on October 30, 2013, 04:05:53 PM
Well I'm not a northern gael for starters and the GAA doesn't exist to promote all our games, I've never seen a single thing done to promote handball or rounders in any club I'm familiar with. Each club and county exist on their own terms so to speak. An club that only wants to play football can't and shouldn't be forced to play hurling. If a number of people in the club want to start/develop hurling then the GAA will help and that is largely all they can do. There is a limited pool of money to develop games and wasting money on token initiatives to develop either game in areas where there is little interest is pointless.
If there are 'many' hurling only clubs in Ulster then I agree, the GAA should help them develop. However, single code clubs are no less a GAA club than dual ones and the hand ringing that goes on about not enough being done for one code or the other is misplaced outrage.
Funny, cause handball and rounders are probably the two sports that could be played by all ages and male/female in a club.
Just shows the majority of GAA clubs are only interested in promoting and developing what their own perceived notion of what the GAA is...
That's true neilthemac, but I would argue that it's fair enough for clubs to interpret what the the GAA is 'about' themselves. A club in Ulster might view the GAA and its role differently to a club in the other provinces due to the troubles and that's fair enough. Single code clubs for all intents and purposes might view the GAA as hurling or football only and again who is to say that's wrong? As long as you are running your club properly and welcoming to all who want to play the game(s) you offer then I think that's good enough. I think handball is a great sport to play but I never had the opportunity to play it in my club but I can well understand why my club didn't promote it and why it would be difficult to argue they start now.
The most successful and vibrant handball clubs are usually separate to any other GAA sport!
Very few clubs can successfully pull off a multi-sport and cultural setup.
Let it be. If there's an appetite for something it will be satisfied. I agree there is no point forcing clubs or counties to embrace a code just for the sake of it. In the town near me you have 4 football clubs (one of which actually has a thriving handball club) and a hurling club, with about 4/5 other football clubs scattered around the outskirts of the town.
A sizeable GAA population, but there is little to no interest in hurling. The hurling club itself is Junior level and would cover the catchment area of all the local football clubs, drawing its players from these clubs. While they are holding their own, they won't be competing for senior any time soon.
It doesn't matter if a club is dual Division 1 senior club or a bottom of Division 3 Junior, so long as they promote the ethos of the Association and are the focal point of their community then they are a true GAA club in my eyes.
Quote from: Zulu on October 30, 2013, 04:05:53 PM
Well I'm not a northern gael for starters and the GAA doesn't exist to promote all our games, I've never seen a single thing done to promote handball or rounders in any club I'm familiar with. Each club and county exist on their own terms so to speak. An club that only wants to play football can't and shouldn't be forced to play hurling. If a number of people in the club want to start/develop hurling then the GAA will help and that is largely all they can do. There is a limited pool of money to develop games and wasting money on token initiatives to develop either game in areas where there is little interest is pointless.
If there are 'many' hurling only clubs in Ulster then I agree, the GAA should help them develop. However, single code clubs are no less a GAA club than dual ones and the hand ringing that goes on about not enough being done for one code or the other is misplaced outrage.
Indeed the GAA does help with handball and many football clubs have handball sections. Rounders is a different matter, but the lack of support for these games does not abdicate the Ulster Council from responsibility to hurling.
I'm not suggesting that football clubs should suddenly embrace hurling, great if they want to. What I am saying is that many hurling clubs are struggling for resources and numbers and that with a little generosity of spirit football clubs could help them at no cost to themselves. The Ulster council has quite rightly been lauded for reaching out to the unionist community, the need to reach out to hurling in Ulster. In addition can you imagine what hurling would be like in Ulster if some of the funding thrown at the International Rules was used to help out hurling in Ulster.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:15:34 AM
I'm not suggesting that football clubs should suddenly embrace hurling, great if they want to. What I am saying is that many hurling clubs are struggling for resources and numbers and that with a little generosity of spirit football clubs could help them at no cost to themselves. The Ulster council has quite rightly been lauded for reaching out to the unionist community, the need to reach out to hurling in Ulster. In addition can you imagine what hurling would be like in Ulster if some of the funding thrown at the International Rules was used to help out hurling in Ulster.
Incoming. Take cover.
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2013, 09:17:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:15:34 AM
I'm not suggesting that football clubs should suddenly embrace hurling, great if they want to. What I am saying is that many hurling clubs are struggling for resources and numbers and that with a little generosity of spirit football clubs could help them at no cost to themselves. The Ulster council has quite rightly been lauded for reaching out to the unionist community, the need to reach out to hurling in Ulster. In addition can you imagine what hurling would be like in Ulster if some of the funding thrown at the International Rules was used to help out hurling in Ulster.
Incoming. Take cover.
I'm not suggesting it should be pulled, I'm just stating that if some of that cash was used wisely in Ulster it would be an enormous help.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:19:17 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2013, 09:17:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:15:34 AM
I'm not suggesting that football clubs should suddenly embrace hurling, great if they want to. What I am saying is that many hurling clubs are struggling for resources and numbers and that with a little generosity of spirit football clubs could help them at no cost to themselves. The Ulster council has quite rightly been lauded for reaching out to the unionist community, the need to reach out to hurling in Ulster. In addition can you imagine what hurling would be like in Ulster if some of the funding thrown at the International Rules was used to help out hurling in Ulster.
Incoming. Take cover.
I'm not suggesting it should be pulled, I'm just stating that if some of that cash was used wisely in Ulster it would be an enormous help.
Very wise to distance yourself from criticism of the highlight of many a GAA career. You were within a micron of having a "backwoodsman" label slapped on you.
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2013, 09:29:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:19:17 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2013, 09:17:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:15:34 AM
I'm not suggesting that football clubs should suddenly embrace hurling, great if they want to. What I am saying is that many hurling clubs are struggling for resources and numbers and that with a little generosity of spirit football clubs could help them at no cost to themselves. The Ulster council has quite rightly been lauded for reaching out to the unionist community, the need to reach out to hurling in Ulster. In addition can you imagine what hurling would be like in Ulster if some of the funding thrown at the International Rules was used to help out hurling in Ulster.
Incoming. Take cover.
I'm not suggesting it should be pulled, I'm just stating that if some of that cash was used wisely in Ulster it would be an enormous help.
Very wise to distance yourself from criticism of the highlight of many a GAA career. You were within a micron of having a "backwoodsman" label slapped on you.
lol, maybe deserved. But there needs to be a debate in Ulster about hurling.
I haven't posted about this as it's (hate using this word now) depressing!!
The Ulster council have always nailed their colours to the football mast, has there ever been a hurling man at the helm of the Ulster council? This would maybe give us a reason as to the funding or thinking behind a lot of the things that have went on before or continuing to do so.
At club level Loughgiel recently won an All Ireland, we've been unlucky a few times at Junior and Intermediate level (Middletown), clubs are continuing to do well considering the lack of coaching compared to football coaching, the spin will be that their are more football clubs. That's true because they don't promote it as much, hurling is also more expensive than football so it may also be a factor.
We were brought up (like most Gaels in Belfast) playing both codes, everyone found their best sport, some couldn't decide and excelled in both, the demands on those players is tough, though in fairness the county board have tried hard to accommodate the club dual player but it's impossible to accommodate the County dual club players. This impacts on (defo my club) some clubs as their best player is playing county football but missing out on an important club hurling game (fixed for same day)
This year has proved to be a great year for hurling Nationally, there has been a great spread of winners this year, Clare have raised the bar and Antrim reached their first ever under 21 final. Dublin again unlucky after some great wins in not reaching a final and it's not that long ago that we beat Dublin in Croke Park, at the minute though we'd be lucky to beat Louth.
A serious think tank is required with actions from the meeting leading to proper outcomes, this wont be done over a period of 2/3 years it will take a generation of players in all the counties to raise the bar, 20% improvement is realistic if certain measures/funding was put in place.
I won't hold my breath on this though
It might be depressing Milltown, but I really wanted to try and encourage some debate and some thought around the dire state of Ulster Hurling...misguided probably.
I remember playing against Dungiven in an U-14 football friendly at Owenbeg (Derry training grounds) when there were three pitches on a midweek night. On the best pitch which was surrounded by floodlights you had Tohill and his lesser piers on the Derry senior football panel training. On the next pitch you had the Derry minors and our pre season friendly took up the third picth.
On a field next to us which was covered in sheep shite you had the Derry senior hurlers attempting to have a training session. Ironically this was by far the best Derry team of my lifetime with players like Ollie Collins who went on to give Offaly a decent enough game in the All-Ireland qf's. To me that memory sums up how much both the Derry county board and the Ulster Council treat hurling compared with football.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 11:30:39 AM
It might be depressing Milltown, but I really wanted to try and encourage some debate and some thought around the dire state of Ulster Hurling...misguided probably.
Not really but we'd need a hurling movement from the clubs and for Croke park to actually look at this properly instead of the lip service that has went on before. It's dying out in some strongholds due to the failing numbers and kids playing other or not playing sports at all. I'd rather a massive push on it now while it's still popular (albeit in certain areas) to improve this slid, because if they continue with the status quo we will only have a handful of clubs left playing it, and to a poor enough standard.
We need too have someone in the Ulster Council who's willing to go against the grain, he'll not be popular that's for sure, might be a good idea to get Crossey in their to vent his anger at the Casement thingy
I do hope for the players sake that the final is played as soon as possible.
I would hate to think that a player missed out on a medal because of the scheduling difficulty.
By the way, scheduling is not easy.
Quote from: Orior link=topic=23925.msg1293840#msg1293840 date=1383255044
By the way, scheduling is not easy.
/quote]
no you're right, Donegal and monaghan hadn't the first clue when the football was to be played .
lol
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2013, 09:29:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:19:17 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2013, 09:17:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2013, 09:15:34 AM
I'm not suggesting that football clubs should suddenly embrace hurling, great if they want to. What I am saying is that many hurling clubs are struggling for resources and numbers and that with a little generosity of spirit football clubs could help them at no cost to themselves. The Ulster council has quite rightly been lauded for reaching out to the unionist community, the need to reach out to hurling in Ulster. In addition can you imagine what hurling would be like in Ulster if some of the funding thrown at the International Rules was used to help out hurling in Ulster.
Incoming. Take cover.
I'm not suggesting it should be pulled, I'm just stating that if some of that cash was used wisely in Ulster it would be an enormous help.
Very wise to distance yourself from criticism of the highlight of many a GAA career. You were within a micron of having a "backwoodsman" label slapped on you.
You wouldn't Sean Cavanagh to hear that chat. He thinks club fixtures should revolve around his "Ireland" appearances...
With Donegal getting summoned to Croke Park to answer questions on their future delaying of club championships until Jim and the lads are finished for the summer, will the head honchos in the Ulster council also be summoned to explain their treatment of hurling in the province?
Quote from: johnneycool on November 08, 2013, 01:29:36 PM
With Donegal getting summoned to Croke Park to answer questions on their future delaying of club championships until Jim and the lads are finished for the summer, will the head honchos in the Ulster council also be summoned to explain their treatment of hurling in the province?
Probably not
its hard to promote hurling in ulster . some clubs have a limited pool and having to compete with hurling would affect their football progress. for example in Down Burren kilcoo and mayobridge wouldn't be as successful if the had hurling as it would affect their selection pool and that is the reason
Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2013, 01:15:02 PM
its hard to promote hurling in ulster . some clubs have a limited pool and having to compete with hurling would affect their football progress. for example in Down Burren kilcoo and mayobridge wouldn't be as successful if the had hurling as it would affect their selection pool and that is the reason
There are some exceptions though, St Johns in the 80's were unlucky not to win both Ulsters in the same year Lavey in Derry also nearly done it losing out in the hurling final after winning the football final. Tradionally the Down teams never had dual clubs, Newry Shamrocks, Bredagh would be decent at intermediate level in both codes, would they be any better if they stuck to one code?
We've won All Irelands at senior while managing to be a yo yo team in hurling, div 2 and every couple of years play for a spell at div 1. Wish we could have given the hurling a real go a few years ago when we had very strong team, past by now.
Hurling is strong in the pockets in which it's played, we just need more pockets and County Boards to promote it more, I've seen on a Sat morning parents actively take their sons away before hurling training starts (which is after the football), young lads not even getting a chance to try it because of parents who don't want their kids playing because they think it's dangerous ffs, good thing they weren't about in the 70's/80's it would have died a death